← Kathryn Choules

Cultivating the Patience of a Burrowing Frog

Kathryn Choules · 30 August 2025 · 58 min · Buddhist Society of Western Australia

Kathryn began meditating over 30 years ago at the Armadale group (AMG) of BSWA and continues to join the now online group as a regular member. She has practised in Theravadan, Tibetan and Zen/Chan traditions. She is the founder of “Mind and Movement”, and is a certified teacher of Jon Kabat-Zinn’s program, “Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction” (MBSR). Kathryn is recognised as a Senior Teacher by the Meditation Association of Australia. Kathryn has been slowly retiring from her meditation related work but continues to support a local secondary school implementing a whole school approach to Mindfulness-based Social and Emotional Learning. Every year, the monastic community (Monks and nuns) go on a three month retreat called the “Rains Retreat” from mid July to mid October. During this period, they do not visit our centres for teachings as it’s a time for deepening their own practice. While the monks and nuns are away, we will have some interesting guest speakers coming in to give the Friday Night talk. Dust in Our Eyes 2025 (Rains Retreat Speakers' Series 2025) Hear stories of everyday dhamma as told by monastics and lay practitioners from various Buddhist traditions. Support us on https://ko-fi.com/thebuddhistsocietyofwa BSWA teachings are available: BSWA Teachings BSWA Podcast Channel BSWA DeeperDhamma Podbean Channel BSWA YouTube


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Key passages

The teacher's own words, quoted from the transcript below and chosen automatically as representative.

  • 3:28

    What are you aware of now? So honing that capacity to be aware, to know what's happening and also to relate to it with interest and acceptance. That's primarily what we'll be doing. Now, in a meditation of this type, tranquility may arise, but not necessarily. And it is still...

  • 40:17

    I recently attended a talk by a scientist who, a UWA scientist who investigates burrowing frogs. You probably didn't come to Darmaloka thinking you'd be hearing about burrowing frogs, but they are so interesting. These frogs live in arid regions. He was researching them in Western Australia, but they live in arid regions all through Australia. And they spend most of their life at the bottom.

  • 40:47

    of a big burrow that they dig because up on the top of the land it's too dry for them to survive so they burrow down and they wait and they wait and they wait because frogs need water to lay their eggs in for the tadpoles to hatch and grow into metamorphose into frogs And they need a period of time. So they have to wait until a big rain event happens. And as I listened to this bloke talking about burrowing frogs, I was thinking, wow, the patience of those frogs.

  • 48:27

    I mentioned that the land was degraded. In some ways, when we start meditating, for most of us, we've already had a couple of decades or many decades where we haven't been training the mind-heart, where the mind has been doing its own thing pretty much. And part of the motivation of the mind is a very biological motivation. of survival, of breeding, of things which, like all animals, we are set up to want to do.

  • 50:35

    And he talked about it in terms of, oh yeah, yeah, I review how I'm going to see if it's making any difference, sort of every five years. And it's like, wow, we live in a society which is so fast. The idea of reviewing the mind every five years to see if we're improving sounds a long time, but for me it's so reassuring because my mind is slowly, slowly, slowly, very, very slowly improving.

Transcript

0:00 So thank you so much for joining us, Kathryn. Kathryn began meditating over 30 years ago at the Amadou Group of BSWA and continues to join the now online group as a regular member. She has practiced in Theravāda, Tibetan, Zen and Chan traditions. She's the founder of Mind and Movement and is a certified teacher. Report an error in the passage at 0:00

0:28 of Jon Kabat-Zinn's program, mindfulness-based stress reduction. Kathryn is recognized as a senior teacher by the Meditation Association of Australia, and she has been slowly retiring from her meditation-related work, but continues to support a local secondary school, implementing a whole school approach to mindfulness-based social and emotional learning. Report an error in the passage at 0:28

0:57 Thank you. Thanks, Report an error in the passage at 0:57

1:03 Nick. Report an error in the passage at 1:03

1:09 So hello friends, some old friends, I mean I don't mean in age, longer term friends and some people I haven't yet met. It's terrific to be here. Report an error in the passage at 1:09

1:26 I'm just going to speak a little bit before we do the meditation, but not for long, we will soon get into the meditation. But I just wanted to acknowledge that the Buddha taught many different ways to meditate. meditate. Report an error in the passage at 1:26

1:45 humans and even though we share much in common we also have our differences and you'll know from having observed your own mind that your mind needs different things at different times as well and there are also so many different facets of mind that we need to cultivate and so it makes sense that there are different ways that we can engage in that training of the mind Report an error in the passage at 1:45

2:20 I've just been listening to Stillness Flowing, the life and teaching of Ajahn Chah. It's now an audio book available on YouTube. If you want to listen to it, it's terrific. And one of the things that was really encouraging in that was Ajahn Chah's experimenting with a variety of different types of meditation, exploring what was right for him. Report an error in the passage at 2:20

2:52 Tonight's meditation is going to have a focus primarily on developing strengthening awareness, strengthening mindfulness. Report an error in the passage at 2:52

3:02 If that's not the type of meditation that you need tonight, tune out my voice and do the meditation that's right for you. But I'll be guiding a meditation practice that is primarily focused on strengthening our awareness. And Report an error in the passage at 3:02

3:24 even now we could start that, you know, what's happening now? What are you aware of now? So honing that capacity to be aware, to know what's happening and also to relate to it with interest and acceptance. That's primarily what we'll be doing. Now, in a meditation of this type, tranquility may arise, but not necessarily. Report an error in the passage at 3:24

3:50 And it is still... A practice that strengthens awareness, mindfulness, whether or not tranquility arises. And that's one of the lovely things about having this as a focus because we then don't judge ourselves based on the outcome. Report an error in the passage at 3:50

4:07 We can be mindful of whatever mind state is here. So we're not stuffing it up, pardon my French, if we notice when we sit down and observe the mind that, oh, there's actually a lot of agitation here. Well that's interesting. Can I be with this? So becoming aware and how we relate to what's going on in the mind is a vital building block of mind training. Report an error in the passage at 4:07

4:40 And just before we start, it can be useful to tune into your own intention of why you're here tonight. Why am I here tonight? And we might have a range of different intentions but... Try and tune into the purest, the deepest intention that you have. Report an error in the passage at 4:40

5:06 Maybe it's simply about learning to ride this rollercoaster of emotions that we feel through life. Maybe it's to strengthen your capacity to meet the challenges of living in the 21st century. Report an error in the passage at 5:06

5:27 And those challenges abound, to meeting those with balance century. Report an error in the passage at 5:27

5:30 balance and open. openness maybe there's an intention to purify this heart and mind to be of benefit to other living beings to all living beings just settling in and knowing why you're here okay so let's begin i Report an error in the passage at 5:30

6:17 know many of you are very experienced meditators but there may be people who a person or people who are here for the first time Report an error in the passage at 6:17

6:27 So if it feels comfortable, letting the eyes close. And if that doesn't feel comfortable, allowing your gaze just to be soft on something that is relatively neutral so that we can come into awareness of our experience, become aware. And Report an error in the passage at 6:27

7:01 we might, in doing that, have a sense of the attitude that we bring to this practice tonight. Report an error in the passage at 7:01

7:13 If it's available, it can be useful to bring an attitude of friendliness. Friendliness to the practice, friendliness to yourself, Report an error in the passage at 7:13

7:30 friendliness to this moment, this experience. When Report an error in the passage at 7:30

7:49 I came in and looked at the Buddha statue and looked at the Buddha's face, I was filled with a sense of friendliness. The smile on the Buddha's face just touched that in me. And Report an error in the passage at 7:49

8:13 it may be that today has been a day that hasn't had the causes and conditions for friendliness to be easily available for you. Report an error in the passage at 8:13

8:27 So that's how it is. That's how this present moment is. Not needing to judge ourselves for what we notice, if possible, but bring friendliness even to the absence of friendliness. We're Report an error in the passage at 8:27

8:48 not in control of the causes and conditions that affect Condition the mind, this present moment. What we can do is relate to what is here with Report an error in the passage at 8:48

9:10 as little judgment and reactivity as possible. And if friendliness is available, bringing that to it. So Report an error in the passage at 9:10

9:35 what's happening now? What are you aware of? When Report an error in the passage at 9:35

10:08 we tune into our present moment experience, some Report an error in the passage at 10:08

10:15 of what we might notice are the senses. Maybe we hear the light purr of the air conditioner, some Report an error in the passage at 10:15

10:32 gentle noises of body movement, a Report an error in the passage at 10:32

10:47 distant car or vehicle. Maybe Report an error in the passage at 10:47

11:15 you become aware of the body, the sense of touch of the body, where Report an error in the passage at 11:15

11:26 the hands are resting, how the weight is distributed, alignment Report an error in the passage at 11:26

11:39 of the back, of the limbs. Report an error in the passage at 11:39

11:59 The temperature of the air on the skin. The Report an error in the passage at 11:59

· · · silence, 1 minute

12:41 Buddha was an exquisite scientist of first-person experience. The data that we receive through the senses and Report an error in the passage at 12:41

13:00 then what happens to it when the sense object meets consciousness, when it meets the mind, what gets generated in the mind. Report an error in the passage at 13:00

· · · silence, 1 minute

14:10 What's happening now? Report an error in the passage at 14:10

14:15 What are you aware of? Report an error in the passage at 14:15

14:42 Maybe you're aware of... What's happening in the mind? Report an error in the passage at 14:42

14:59 Reactions, preferences, storytelling, Report an error in the passage at 14:59

15:14 urges, Report an error in the passage at 15:14

15:19 dullness, Report an error in the passage at 15:19

15:24 restlessness. What's Report an error in the passage at 15:24

15:53 happening in the mind? Bringing Report an error in the passage at 15:53

16:14 some interest and consistency with observing how the mind is, how it changes, a Report an error in the passage at 16:14

16:39 relationship with the body, the senses. Report an error in the passage at 16:39

· · · silence, 3 minutes

19:16 Different things coming and going in this present moment. And there is awareness of that. There is the knowing different Report an error in the passage at 19:16

19:33 phenomena. Might Report an error in the passage at 19:33

19:43 also play with the possibility of being aware of that awareness. That Report an error in the passage at 19:43

19:57 feels useful. What's Report an error in the passage at 19:57

· · · silence, 1 minute

21:11 happening now? Report an error in the passage at 21:11

21:15 What are you aware of? It's Report an error in the passage at 21:15

21:22 not that you should be aware of anything in particular. It's simply knowing what it is. Whether it's something to do with the body, the senses, the mind, observing the coming and going, the arising and passing of different phenomena, interest, Report an error in the passage at 21:22

21:51 acceptance, even Report an error in the passage at 21:51

21:57 friendliness. And Report an error in the passage at 21:57

· · · silence, 1 minute

22:29 I'll be quiet now for the next 15 or so minutes as we bring awareness to this experience. Awareness. And if possible, friendliness to whatever it is that we Report an error in the passage at 22:29

22:50 experience towards Report an error in the passage at 22:50

· · · silence, 11 minutes

33:50 the end of the meditation. Report an error in the passage at 33:50

33:57 Taking your time to review Report an error in the passage at 33:57

34:05 what you were aware of in the last half hour, what you noticed, the Report an error in the passage at 34:05

34:16 changes, the Report an error in the passage at 34:16

34:22 data coming in through the senses, fluctuations Report an error in the passage at 34:22

34:29 of the mind, how Report an error in the passage at 34:29

34:36 you're feeling now and why that might be so. Report an error in the passage at 34:36

· · · silence, 2 minutes

36:30 This morning I spent a couple of hours up in Perry Lakes and Bold Park. Some of you might know that area. It is a beautiful, natural area. There's a couple of lakes, lots of waterfowl, beautiful big flooded gums at Perry Lakes and then up in Bold Park, Park, Bankshire, Tuarts. I watched a big bird of prey being... Report an error in the passage at 36:30

37:01 Chased around by two pretty ineffectual ravens. It was such a still morning. Beautiful Report an error in the passage at 37:01

37:13 blue sky, bright, clear. Every Friday morning with Dharma Buddy we go and find some place in nature and we meet up, we have a chat and then we both go our separate ways and spend time just hanging out, connecting in nature, with nature. Report an error in the passage at 37:13

37:34 And I mention that In connection with what we're doing here, it's one of the practices, one of my regular practices that contributes to this process of removing the dust from the eyes that Nick spoke about. Eyes have lots of dust in them. And we need lots of different practices to support us to meet the challenges of being a human being with a crazy human mind. Report an error in the passage at 37:34

38:15 In a crazy world, the Report an error in the passage at 38:15

38:22 time in nature is one which is really grounding for me. It supports Report an error in the passage at 38:22

38:32 a sense of belonging. It generally, Report an error in the passage at 38:32

38:41 but not inevitably, supports a sense of balance and ease with being Report an error in the passage at 38:41

38:59 able to meet the stuff of life. And I mention that now for a couple of reasons. One is to remember, to bring now into this moment for me, those experiences that I had this morning, which were really lovely, open, grounding, balanced, so that they're here with me now. But also to think about the ways that you add, you resource yourself. For me, it's a sense of making deposits in an internal bank account. Report an error in the passage at 38:59

39:36 It might be that the way that you make deposits in your own internal bank account that you draw on in times of challenge is to spend time with loved ones, looking after a toddler. Report an error in the passage at 39:36

39:52 But thinking about those ways that combined with the meditation, combined with the ethical life, support us in this practice of purification, of removing the dust from the eyes. Report an error in the passage at 39:52

40:12 Nature can be a terrific teacher. I recently attended a talk by a scientist who, a UWA scientist who investigates burrowing frogs. Report an error in the passage at 40:12

40:28 You probably didn't come to Darmaloka thinking you'd be hearing about burrowing frogs, but they are so interesting. These frogs live in arid regions. He was researching them in Western Australia, but they live in arid regions all through Australia. And they spend most of their life at the bottom. of a big burrow that they dig because up on the top of the land it's too dry for them to survive so they burrow down and they wait and Report an error in the passage at 40:28

41:03 they wait and they wait because frogs need water to lay their eggs in for the tadpoles to hatch and grow into metamorphose into frogs And they need a period of time. So they have to wait until a big rain event happens. And as I listened to this bloke talking about burrowing frogs, I was thinking, wow, the patience of those frogs. Report an error in the passage at 41:03

41:30 And I know I am anthropomorphizing a bit, putting human characteristics on those frogs. But I thought, and I have been sort of channeling my inner burrowing frogs since hearing about them. So those times when I'm waiting at the Traffic lights, getting frustrated. I think, think about those frogs. Those frogs can be at the bottom of their burrow for six months, 12 months, 18 months, he said, until they feel that the rain event that's happening is big enough to be able to sustain them to come up. Report an error in the passage at 41:30

42:07 And when they come up out of the burrow, they gorge themselves on termites, which have also hatched as a result of the big rain event. They find a mate. Report an error in the passage at 42:07

42:18 Lay the eggs, go back down in the burrow. They might be up for a few days. So they spend most of their life waiting, waiting, waiting. Report an error in the passage at 42:18

42:32 So it's been terrific for me to think about that patience as I've noticed impatience arising in the normal stuff of life where I'm not getting what I want, where something's happening longer, where what's happening is... Report an error in the passage at 42:32

42:50 I mentioned traffic lights, sitting at the traffic light for however many seconds, getting impatient and thinking, ah, maybe I can have a different perspective on this. I actually love traffic lights as informal places of practice. And I've been using the traffic light also as an opportunity to practice muditā, gladness at somebody else's good luck, happiness at somebody else's good fortune. Report an error in the passage at 42:50

43:23 As I come up, there's a part of me that wants the light to be green. But there's another part of me now that I'm training to say, oh, if it's green for somebody else, how good's that? And so to be able to experience what could normally be less than pleasant, you know, a tiny minor thing, but switching that as an opportunity to appreciate the good fortune for somebody else. Report an error in the passage at 43:23

43:53 And then I'm sitting at the red traffic light happy for them. That's better than the alternative. Report an error in the passage at 43:53

44:02 And so we get impatient at the external stuff of life. The things aren't going our way. But we can also get impatient with this mind heart of ours. We sit down to meditate and the mind doesn't do what we would like it to do right now, thank you very much. It's got a mind of its own. It's doing something else. Report an error in the passage at 44:02

43:58 alternative. Report an error in the passage at 43:58

· · · silence, 1 minute

44:28 And I think so often in our Western society, it's very easy for the next thing that happens to be judgment, self-judgment, inner critic, hopeless, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which of course adds another layer of suffering to a mind that might be restless or cranky or depressed or anxious. And so thinking about bringing my inner burrowing frog to a mind that is not Report an error in the passage at 44:28

45:07 as I would choose it to be, can also be really useful. How the mind is, is not through our choosing. It is set up right, this moment's mind is the result of causes and conditions that have been laid out before. So what I can do now is think about establishing causes and conditions for the next mind. Report an error in the passage at 45:07

45:33 And And... Practicing judgment, practicing self-judgment, practicing self-criticism, that just sets us up for more of that. Report an error in the passage at 45:33

45:44 So cultivating my inner burrowing frog and bringing a bit of patience, a bit of understanding, a bit of acceptance, means that the future mind states that we have are much more likely to be easeful ones. When Report an error in the passage at 45:44

46:08 I was thinking about the patience of the... The frogs. It reminded me also of the patience that's needed in some of the land care work that I'm involved in. Where I live across the road is a wetlands and that area of land has been used over the last 200 years in a variety of ways. It's been used for farming. It's been used as a rubbish dump. Report an error in the passage at 46:08

46:43 This wetland's used as a rubbish dump. It makes you cry now. It's been used as a golf course and then the golf course was closed and a community group set up to revegetate the place and as much as possible restore the habitat for native birds, insects, pollinators, reptiles, etc. Report an error in the passage at 46:43

47:11 And so we think Report an error in the passage at 47:11

47:17 about what's needed. reptiles, etc. Report an error in the passage at 47:17

47:49 See and wait. We come back after a period of time and some of them have flourished. Some of them might have been eaten by little animals that live there. Some of them might have died because they didn't get enough water. But many of them will have flourished. And the change that we see in that place is a very slow change. Report an error in the passage at 47:49

48:15 And I think that also can be useful to remember when we are... Cultivating the mind, the mind-heart. And Report an error in the passage at 48:15

48:27 I mentioned that the land was degraded. In some ways, when we start meditating, for most of us, we've already had a couple of decades or many decades where we haven't been training the mind-heart, where the mind has been doing its own thing pretty much. And part of the motivation of the mind is a very biological motivation. Report an error in the passage at 48:27

48:55 of survival, of breeding, of things which, like all animals, we are set up to want to do. So those kinds of instincts can sit underneath some of the habits that we are now trying to soften. Habits of wanting, of desire, of craving can have... In part a biological necessity of making sure we get the resources to survive. And craving also can exhibit itself in other forms. Report an error in the passage at 48:55

49:36 Craving for sex, craving for alcohol, craving for status. And the more that that has been allowed to unfold without any supervision. supervision. Report an error in the passage at 49:36

49:52 The more maybe degraded the mind has become. And so we come to this mind and expect, okay, now I've got a determination. I'm going to sit and it'll all be good. And it takes so much time of retraining the mind-heart. So patience and relating to what we see with acceptance. Report an error in the passage at 49:52

50:23 ...is a really important support for this process. I can remember hearing the Dalai Lama talking about his practice and observing his change. And he talked about it in terms of, oh yeah, yeah, I review how I'm going to see if it's making any difference, sort of every five years. And it's like, wow, we live in a society which is so fast. Report an error in the passage at 50:23

50:50 The idea of reviewing the mind every five years to see if we're improving sounds a long time, but for me it's so reassuring because my mind is slowly, slowly, slowly, very, very slowly improving. I don't know for you, you might be having more rapid success, but it feels lovely that the Dalai Lama uses five-year chunks to review his mind. Report an error in the passage at 50:50

51:20 We're in here for the long haul. Report an error in the passage at 51:20

51:25 Yeah, and as we do it, there's no guarantees about what's going to happen because there's so many causes and conditions that have been laid down in other times that we can't influence now other than in how we respond to them. And so the attitude of the mind, the friendliness that we bring, the patience that we bring, those... Report an error in the passage at 51:25

51:52 Those qualities of relating to the mind, whatever shows up, is what we do have some influence over now to a greater or lesser degree. As Report an error in the passage at 51:52

52:13 we complement Report an error in the passage at 52:13

52:18 the training that we do in meditation with the training in daily life, we can think of the different ways of bringing awareness to our daily life. Report an error in the passage at 52:18

52:34 I ask through the meditation of what's happening now? What am I aware of? We can ask ourselves from the moment we get up to the moment we go to sleep to increase our mindfulness, to increase the possibility of sustained mindfulness. Report an error in the passage at 52:34

52:56 In the book I was mentioning about Ajahn Chah, stillness flowing. mindfulness. Report an error in the passage at 52:56

53:04 They were talking about Ajahn Chah having a very strong focus on sustained mindfulness from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep. And he identified it as being a slip in virtue when you lose mindfulness, which is quite a strong encouragement to sustain mindfulness. And again, I would add the importance bringing Report an error in the passage at 53:04

53:40 understanding, And care as we observe this, because we won't be mindful from the beginning, from the moment we wake up to the moment we go to sleep. I've been participating in a number of online courses that Bhikkhu Analio has developed. He's a Theravadan monk who explores Report an error in the passage at 53:40

54:08 compares the different versions of the suttas in Pāli and Chinese and Tibetan with an intention of identifying the commonalities and the best guess at what the original teachings of the Buddha were. And he always says in the meditations, you know, as he's guiding it, and of course... Your mind will wander away, and when it does, smilingly, smilingly bringing it back. And so bringing that orientation of friendliness is, I think, a vital support, because we all know how undermining it is when the inner critic is let loose in the mind. Report an error in the passage at 54:08

55:03 It might feel like it's a corrective, but it's ultimately a very disempowering. So we Report an error in the passage at 55:03

55:20 put in the conditions. We ask ourselves what's happening. We support sustained mindfulness as best we can. We look to see if we can insert a pause between a trigger and a behaviour. We find opportunities for practising the Brahmavihāras. I go up Report an error in the passage at 55:20

56:04 to Jana Grove during the rains period. I did a couple of weeks of self-retreat at the beginning of rains this year. And I've been doing it now for a number of years. And that's been a terrific opportunity. To see the slow incremental change in the mind, see a softening of the inner critic, see an ease with some of the reactivity that I had around different aspects of being in a community with other people who are doing things that I don't agree with. Report an error in the passage at 56:04

56:45 It's been quite delightful to Move from being wanting to have people told off because they are talking and not in noble silence to, okay, that's how it is. What do I need to do to either move away or just know that people will talk at different times even though I don't want them to? Report an error in the passage at 56:45

57:09 To see the ease and the lessening of reactivity around that is encouraging in my five-year review of this heart-mind. Report an error in the passage at 57:09

57:29 That's probably all I had in mind to talk about. Report an error in the passage at 57:29

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Talk by Kathryn Choules, recorded 30 August 2025. Original at Buddhist Society of Western Australia: https://podcast.bswa.org/e/cultivating-the-patience-of-a-burrowing-frog-kathryn-choules-15-august-2025/. Licensed No license stated; shared with the archive's knowledge (courtesy note). Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.

Listen on Buddhist Society of Western Australia · No license stated; shared with the archive's knowledge (courtesy note)