Ajahn Viradhammo: Freedom Now - Q and A (1995)

0:00 First question is lemon tea. Report an error in the passage at 0:00

0:07 Freedom as the awareness of how things are appears simple. My perception of how things are is often different to my neighbors. My truth is different to another's. What does how things are mean? Okay, good question. How Report an error in the passage at 0:07

0:33 things are is how things appear. Report an error in the passage at 0:33

0:39 Try another one. Thank you. How things are, it's how it appears in my mind. And all our perceptions differ. So how I appear to you, for each one of you, it's different. Some of you know me. Some of you don't know me. Some of you like my accent. Some of you dislike my accent. Whatever it is. So that's very personal. Report an error in the passage at 0:39

1:06 Perception is very personal. It's conditioned. It depends. Depends. Report an error in the passage at 1:06

1:12 Felicity is from New Zealand so she was part of the monastery there and she knows me so she has a whole history of say New Zealand so her perception is conditioned in that way some other folk don't know me so the perception isn't conditioned in that way so there is a personal component to experience obviously experience is personal but when we think how things are it's like fully eat Fully realizing this moment feels this way now and then seeing what we're adding on top of it. So in other words, if I'm listening to say Vinaya readings, we have Vinaya readings around the discipline which can be excruciating and boring sometimes. Report an error in the passage at 1:12

2:00 And maybe you're sitting there and listening to some point of monastic etiquette you've heard for 20 years. And the head's nodding and you can hardly stay awake. And then maybe the aversion starts to come up. Oh, why don't you shut up? Report an error in the passage at 2:00

2:18 To actually come to the point, well, this is what boredom feels like. It feels this way now. It's this way now. It's what we mean by it feels this way now. Now the other monk who maybe has never heard the discipline might not feel it's boring. That's okay. So we say this is what boredom feels like now. Report an error in the passage at 2:18

2:36 And then to see what am I creating on top of that. Aversion, restlessness, resentment, criticism, whatever might happen. And so this is the way things are, is that full awakening. And quite often we don't fully awaken. We can be in a kind of, at least I find it for myself, I can be in a kind of subliminal thinking kind of half ego state. Report an error in the passage at 2:36

3:01 You're not really fully clear and awake and the mind can just be muttering on. What does it feel like to be here? What does heat feel like? Especially around negative things when we resist them. What does it feel like? Like someone sitting beside you and you just feel uncomfortable with them. What does that feel like? Or someone is aggressive and you feel intimidated. Report an error in the passage at 3:01

3:26 What does intimidation feel like? Quite often to come to that full awakeness is rather difficult because we react defensively, aggressively, whatever it might be. Report an error in the passage at 3:26

3:37 So, is that all right? Pick a question. Report an error in the passage at 3:37

3:46 How does one practically, in waking living situation, when faced with the people or triggers, how does one respond to the situation without recreating the drama, the feeling, the aversion, anger, whatever it is? How does one stay true to what it is they are feeling without causing more pain to oneself or others? Report an error in the passage at 3:46

4:12 By suppression, repression, and still respond as the person or situation in front of you is unfolding right now. In other words, how do you do it? Report an error in the passage at 4:12

4:26 How do you feel fully your stuff? Be awake to the other person? Not react blindly? Not just dump your stuff on them and not be dumped on interned? How do you do it? Well, I think, Report an error in the passage at 4:26

4:45 For me, those things came and come slowly. So the practice of mindfulness, when I first began, I read a... I remember I read a book in university. I can't remember the author. It was called The Psychology of Awareness. And I realized that I was sort of... I awoke to the way things are every six months. I surfaced from a whole realm of distractions. Report an error in the passage at 4:45

5:12 And so the practice of awareness, if it's encouraged, then it becomes a kind of strength, I find, a strengthening that remembers more and more and sees more and more deeply. In other words, now I can be aware in human situations reactions of aggressiveness or fearfulness much more clearly than I was 20 years ago. Report an error in the passage at 5:12

5:39 20 years ago they would just kind of come out and I would tend to react and I'd make a... Report an error in the passage at 5:39

5:52 In other words, whenever you can you say, this is the way it is now. And one fully awakens to the way things are. That creates the stream of mindfulness which eventually has more and more power. More and more power over the delusions. We'll get overwhelmed, we'll blow it, we'll say the wrong things, but every now and then we remember the way it is now. Report an error in the passage at 5:52

6:13 And the more we do that, then we strengthen that by two moments. so when you like if you If you've overwhelmed by stuff you've blown it in some way, then when you awaken, when you feel the exhaustion of that or the remorse of that, then come back to full awareness. This is what remorse feels like. is one thing I found, say. Report an error in the passage at 6:13

6:41 The senior monk of monasteries, at first I didn't know how to do it. So at first I was sort of, you know, a dictator. You guys shape up or I'm going to throw you out. I tried that. Then I'd just be very fearful and not do anything and so on and so forth and made all the mistakes. And through all those mistakes, I suffered a lot of remorse. Report an error in the passage at 6:41

7:03 You know, I'd kind of get caught in the mood and I'd blast someone and say, oh, God. I began to see, well, I really had no choice. Because the power of delusion and the power of conditioning was stronger than the awareness. Because my intention was good. My intention was to try to do it the best I could. So when I got overwhelmed and then there was remorse, I would just try to see, well, how does remorse feel? Report an error in the passage at 7:03

7:33 Because in the remorse there was, at least then, there was awakening. And rather than letting that go into guilt, you're no good, you're hopeless, you're a basket case, all that kind of stuff, I say, well, this is what remorse feels like. That's the beginning of awareness. And that's not a very pleasant emotion. But the establishment of that created more mindfulness for the future. Report an error in the passage at 7:33

7:56 So no matter how much we get overwhelmed, we do wake up. And then I think very important for me is also, say, making one's intentions very clear. You know, like to wake up in the morning and say, I'm going to try to be a blessing to all beings. Not as an ego thing, but really the intention to really try to serve and help. Report an error in the passage at 7:56

8:15 So that when one does get overwhelmed by the forces of delusion, then one says, well, I didn't really intend that. I didn't consciously go out and try to hurt that person. It's just I got overwhelmed. Then when the guilt comes up, you say, yeah, but I'm doing my best. So you need a lot of... Self-compassion, self-empathy in the practice. Because it's not easy. None of us find it easy. And in Thai they say, pit pin cruel, mistake is teacher. Report an error in the passage at 8:15

8:45 That's a good one to reflect upon. That the way one learns is by just blowing it, really. But keep establishing mindfulness. And that takes a lot of faith, I suppose. Keep doing it, keep doing it. But the most important thing is then really, what is mindfulness? Mindfulness doesn't mean we don't feel angry. Mindfulness is like, this is what anger feels like. Sometimes, I know my definition of awareness tended to be more like control. Report an error in the passage at 8:45

9:17 That if I'm mindful, I'm never going to feel any kind of aberrant emotion. But the karma of fear and anger and greed, they were there. So mindfulness was, oh, this is what it feels like. And in social situations, it's very difficult. And you get overwhelmed. Report an error in the passage at 9:17

9:35 What's important is samādhi. Sitting practice, developing, kind of clearing out of the mind and heart of the rubbish. Vacations are good. That's the kind of samādhi, isn't it? Getting away from it all. We all have that. Doing some kind of practice, daily practice, where you're cleared out. And when you're cleared out, then when the heart gets filled up again, you can see, oh, there it comes. Report an error in the passage at 9:35

10:01 There's the arising of that anxiety. There's the arising of that fear, whatever it might be. But if there's never any samādhi, if there's never any clarity, any balance, then how can I see imbalance? So samādhi, the practices of calm, give you the contrast. If my mind is calm, I can see non-calm. If my mind has some sense of openness, then I can see closeness. Report an error in the passage at 10:01

10:23 But if my heart's always closed, it seems it's always that way. That's perfection, closed heart. So this is what samādhi is for me. It's like creating the balance, creating contrast. All right? Does the deathless come in of its own accord or do we have to ask it to come? Report an error in the passage at 10:23

10:52 Mindfulness is the path to the deathless. Those who are heedless are among the dead. This is a amaravati. Everyone knows what that means? Amara, deathless. Vati, realm, the deathless realm. Report an error in the passage at 10:52

11:09 Ajahn Sumedho is going to live forever? No. As much as I'd like it. So it's not like about physical body. It's something about consciousness here and now. Mindfulness is the path to the deathless. Those who are heedless are among the dead. So what we begin to intuit in our meditation practice is that within experience there's always some sense of presence or being or awareness. Report an error in the passage at 11:09

11:39 The experience changes. You come and go. It's hot and cold. All the dualities of life are there. But what is it that knows? And that's when one questions that and is that more and more, then one begins to understand what we mean by that word deathless. So synonymous with the word deathless is desirelessness, emptiness, signlessness, the other shore. Report an error in the passage at 11:39

12:09 The refuge, the unconditioned, the uncreated, the unoriginated, the unformed. We have this, this is a Theravāda koan. And when you ponder that, like desirelessness, how can I get desirelessness? Report an error in the passage at 12:09

12:26 You can't do it, can you? How can I get desirelessness? Like about ten pounds of that stuff. Desirelessness. You ponder, what is desirelessness? Report an error in the passage at 12:26

12:37 And then you just, and then you notice maybe the heart, which is not. Functioning from desire, it's just open, attentive. Signlessness, like in Theravāda Buddhism you have, when you contemplate dukkha, suffering, unsatisfaction, there's a realization of desirelessness. And all of a sudden it has that to a certain extent. Like when we were kids, we played in the sandbox. And now, what do you play with? Report an error in the passage at 12:37

13:06 Sony tape recorders or whatever, I'm not sure. But there's something in us which is appeased. Which doesn't need to go out, that sense of appeasement, desirelessness. The contemplation of change is the realization of signlessness. What is it that's not a sign? So you have hot and cold, you have interest, disinterest, these are signs. Boredom, excitement, inspiration, depression, those are signs. Report an error in the passage at 13:06

13:35 We go for the inspiration, don't we? Yeah, but not the doubt. We don't want that one. We go for the comfort, we don't want the discomfort. But those are signs. They're all signs. And then you ponder this signlessness. So every time you want to grasp a sign, yeah, but that's not it. Every time you want to grab the experience, you say, yeah, but that's a sign. So the grasping of inspiration or the grasping of depression become, well, they're just signs. Report an error in the passage at 13:35

14:05 What's behind that? Mindfulness is a path to the deathless. Emptiness is the contemplation of... But anattā, self, we're going to see, well actually, the sense of me being a person, there is this sense of being, presence, but as an emotion, I'm not anger, anger comes and goes. This body, well, it's in consciousness, but am I really this body? We begin to ponder that, we begin to realize emptiness, emptiness of self. Report an error in the passage at 14:05

14:36 The different ways of talking about it. And so it's a kind of very subtle thing. We say non-grasping is another way we talk about it, non-grasping the conditions. And the more one ponders that, the more one intuits that. And this goes against the stream, because the stream of worldly function is always to get an experience, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 14:36

14:58 You meditate to get high, or you meditate to get an experience. But just what is it that's not a particular experience? What is it that's inherent in all experiences? Report an error in the passage at 14:58

15:13 Imminent, transcendent. This is the word of the religious language. That's why we say letting go. And when you come to that sense of this experience is this way now, then you're beginning to touch what we mean by the deathless. But as soon as you say this experience is this way now, but I want a different one, you're off into the sign, into desire, into me becoming, and that whole mode of suffering. Report an error in the passage at 15:13

15:41 Alright? Report an error in the passage at 15:41

15:46 So what is the relationship of the teaching and practice to a healthy sense of self? Many people come to practice from a background of damage, not knowing who they are. Following the path also seems to touch on what is best, right for you as an individual type of person, e.g. someone's fulfillment would be to be a monk. Report an error in the passage at 15:46

16:12 Someone else has to leave and practice. Report an error in the passage at 16:12

16:17 Can practice make us too passive? Report an error in the passage at 16:17

16:23 Healthy sense of self is a kind of a common thing that is talked about. And I've pondered that because I've come more through the monastic tradition rather than the psychotherapy tradition, obviously. And where I found my health was in structure and form. So where my health was, was good moral structure, Responsible living, community relationship, all those things gave me a healthy sense of what I should do and shouldn't do. Report an error in the passage at 16:23

17:06 But it wasn't so much me being a monk. It was rather the frameworks and boundaries within which I could watch greed, hatred, delusion. I could watch the sense of I coming and going. And that's how I can relate to that healthy sense of self. Report an error in the passage at 17:06

17:22 I saw that if I didn't have healthy structures, then I could just follow any old emotion, any old intention, and not really be able to reflect upon it. Report an error in the passage at 17:22

17:35 So in that sense, I think, that would be healthy, that one does have a healthy relationship in society, that what is one's responsibility and duty and moral, ethical, all that kind of stuff, would give you a healthy way of looking at yourself. Report an error in the passage at 17:35

17:56 Copyright © 2020 Mooji Media Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Their mechanisms of avoidance are so powerful that the simple life that we have can't make them conscious. And when it can't make them conscious, then we have to search around for ways to make them conscious. So where it works, the practice of mindfulness is when things can become conscious, we have a framework which is healthy. Report an error in the passage at 17:56

18:48 We can watch that which is unskillful, let go of it, and cultivate that which is skillful. Where it doesn't work, and it's my experience, is when those things cannot become conscious. And then we need specific kinds of tools. Report an error in the passage at 18:48

19:04 So then, and I'm certainly, I know people in, say, my experience of meditation who are aware of the damage they've had as children, and they can work it through, through mindfulness, through awareness. But if they're aware of it, if they're not aware of it, they're very difficult. What my experience is. Report an error in the passage at 19:04

19:24 Following the path also seems to touch on what is best right for you as an individual, type of person, etc. Someone's fulfillment would be to be a monk, someone else has to leave. Can practice make us too passive? Certainly, there is no particular way to live one's life, but say, when we talk about right understanding, right view, right thought, Massive. Report an error in the passage at 19:24

19:55 Right livelihood, right action, right speech. These aren't sort of, it's not moral relativism. My morality is relative to what I like. That's very dangerous. Okay, you want to be compassionate to the birds and bees. Yeah, but my morality is I want to kill them. I like hunting. We would say, no, no, no, that's dangerous. Report an error in the passage at 19:55

20:18 So in Buddhism, right lifestyle is based upon ways of, first of all, protecting us from following impulses of violence, of corruption, of greed, and being able to awaken to those, some kind of lifestyle. So if the lifestyle helps to address the heart in that way, to look at all those issues, then it's a good lifestyle. If the lifestyle is one of distracting and not looking at the issues of the heart, then it's not a good lifestyle. Report an error in the passage at 20:18

20:47 So if a monk or a nun come into the monastery and use it to run away from there, whatever then it's not a good lifestyle if we're a monk and none are just uh out like you know I know the monks better, but sometimes they'll just use it because they're afraid of responsibility. Report an error in the passage at 20:47

21:10 And that's not going to work because they're not using it to address their heart. Others might use it to just stay busy, might use it as a workaholic, monasticism. So there's no guarantee around a particular lifestyle. huh? But... But once again, if one has to be careful with the kind of, there's a kind of, you know, this very psychobabble that they have in California. Report an error in the passage at 21:10

21:37 It's like I'm feeling bored with the monastery and I'm thinking, well, this isn't really fulfilling. And, you know, my true creative nature needs to go out and express myself in alternative ways. And I really need to... And it goes on and on and on. And it rationalizes. Report an error in the passage at 21:37

21:56 And I don't know about you, but my rationalizing mind can play around with anything. So that's also very dangerous, is to feel something and one's in some responsibility and it gets tough, and then to say, well, this isn't fulfilling me. Not as an absolute, but it can be an avoidance. We can use the rational mind to avoid things, which is very dangerous. And the rational mind can rationalize anything. Report an error in the passage at 21:56

22:21 It can rationalize immorality and so on. Where does one find, where does one shift? When does one leave as a monk or a nun? When does one leave relationships? I don't know. But certainly, say, if a monk or a nun wants to leave, we really question their intentions. Why do you want to do this? And if they're honest and they say, well, I just want to have some fun, then go for it. But if they start to say, well, you know, they come on with a psychobabble and they're not honest, And you say, well, wait, do you really know what your intention is? Are you really honest about it? Because if we're not honest about our intentions, we won't see the results. Report an error in the passage at 22:21

23:04 And if the results aren't good, we won't connect karma. So it's that sense of honesty. So there's no guarantee, but about can practice be too passive? Report an error in the passage at 23:04

23:20 Certainly it's possible, like in monasticism, to get institutionalized. You just take it all for granted. After a few years, it's pretty comfortable. If you can handle celibacy, it's tough, I guess. And just being contained all the time. But after a while, it's all right. You can handle it. And that's the time when, quite often, teachers will push monks or nuns and say, take some responsibility. Report an error in the passage at 23:20

23:49 So they grow up. So you can get too passive. Friction is very good. Good stuff. I've always appreciated that. That kind of friction. So complacency, luxury, all those kinds of things are great hindrance to the religious life. So that sort of didn't answer that question but went around it. Report an error in the passage at 23:49

24:12 One more. Dealing with verbal and possibly abuse without closing off, is there any guidance to our must be a doctor of this. Report an error in the passage at 24:12

24:36 Dealing with verbal and How do you deal with other kinds of abuse without closing off? Is there any guidance for our group? So how do you deal with verbal or other kinds of abuse? That's the question. Well, first of all, we have laws. Report an error in the passage at 24:36

24:59 There is the doormat theory of Buddhism where the practice of loving kindness means that anyone can come and wipe their Birkenstocks in your face. Report an error in the passage at 24:59

25:13 That's wrong view. It's the idea that I love everyone, may everyone be well, thank you for kicking me, it's been really nice knowing you. That's wrong view. So there are laws and legal systems to try to deal with that. But then outside of that, then we have the problem of people being aggressive. Report an error in the passage at 25:13

25:42 And my own experience like that has been very minimal because I live in a rather special kind of environment so I'm not in a kind of cutthroat corporate world that I hear some people have to be in. But I did find that being able to call aggression amongst people in monasteries was quite good for me because it made me look at that very issue. Report an error in the passage at 25:42

26:08 What is the difference between being passive out of some kind of ideal of compassion or being compassionate and saying no was a huge difference I love you, I love you, I love you. or something like that you know basically i said drop dead my heart was just full of whatever it was and then looking at it she said well that kindness sometimes is very strong and says no obviously And sometimes kindness is passive, sometimes kindness is active. Report an error in the passage at 26:08

26:41 So I found that in those situations, and they haven't been very said, but in those situations where I've had aggression thrown at me, that they've been very strengthening for me to be able to stand up for myself. But not from anger. I've had to struggle through getting angry, yelling at the person, and not getting angry, and then being dumped on, and struggling through all that, finding a place in my heart which can feel the aggression, and feel the shaking of the aggression, and stand, and wait, and then then say say something something strong. Report an error in the passage at 26:41

27:13 strong. Report an error in the passage at 27:13

27:19 or rather than just backing off and putting my tail between my legs and running. So it's all, I see it all as useful, are laws, you know, there are limits to. Report an error in the passage at 27:19

27:31 to these kinds of things. And we can say, that's wrong, that's inappropriate. So in a monastery, we have laws. We have legal structures and if a monk or a nun is out of line, we say, no way. If you want to be here, you have to live by the law. You can't just do that. So it's not laissez-faire. And we have quite strict guidelines on speech and on all kinds of activities. And we're quite happy to call someone's number if they're out of line. Report an error in the passage at 27:31

27:58 So that's like Buddhism is Dhamma Vinaya. It's the dharma and the discipline. So in lay life you have dharma vinaya too. You have your codes and legal codes and ethical codes and maybe unwritten family codes. And those are very important because they're the structures which we can refer to as a common ground. Report an error in the passage at 27:58

28:20 Monastery is quite good. We have a common group of texts called the vinaya which speak about the way we're supposed to be monks and nuns. So if someone like me It starts to get out of line. The junior monk says, Bhante, on page 48, it says, you can't do that. And I say, oh, thank you. So it protects me. It protects the monastery. If we didn't have those rules, it's so easy for people who have power or authority to just misuse, to just use their power or whatever it might be and manipulate and hurt. Report an error in the passage at 28:20

28:59 And so many things we hear in modern religion is like that. So legal structures are very important to protect. But within that, always the practice of how does that affect your heart. Report an error in the passage at 28:59

29:14 Any other questions? Is that enough? Report an error in the passage at 29:14

29:22 Shall we cash in our chips and go home? Thank you for your attention. Perhaps Ajahn Sumedho will be here next week or perhaps you'll see me, I'm not sure. But please come again if you feel so inclined. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 29:22