← George Churinoff

Integrating Dharma in the West - Public Talk with Venerable George Churinoff

George Churinoff · 6 November 2010 · 2 h 16 min · Tse Chen Ling via Internet Archive

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Key passages

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  • 8:48

    Remind yourself everything, whatever worries you might have, preoccupations or anticipations will in hindsight seem very trivial over time. They're all impermanent.

  • 18:46

    Buddha taught that the root cause of all of our problems within cyclic existence is the appearance and apprehension, grasping to this sense of I that arises within our mental consciousness, like an illusion, Maya, thinking how fortunate we are to hear about the methods to bring about that wisdom. To find real, deep transformation,

  • 39:01

    The whole purpose of training of the mind is to develop the two types of enlightenment mind or bodhicitta. We might say relative bodhicitta and ultimate bodhicitta. What does that mean? Bodhicitta is a technical term in Buddhism.

  • 48:26

    This is some of the essential ingredients. One is always be thinking of using your time to develop these two important facets of the path. Conventional bodhicitta, always enhancing your compassion, your love, your patience, and conversely, to develop the wisdom that realizes egolessness. And that requires some familiarity with the teachings. So to come and listen to the very great scholar, yogi, who teaches, a resident teacher here at Geshe Nawandagwa,

  • 1:03:43

    Always taking as your basic background development of these two facets, conventional bodhicitta, ultimate bodhicitta. We can say in a sense when we talk in the teachings also of the three fundamental practices of the path, three fundamental aspects of the path, renunciation, conventional bodhicitta and the wisdom of emptiness.

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0:31 From memory, Report an error

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5:06 quite an extensive career in this. Report an error

5:15 From my memory, so he's like a rocket, pretty cool. If not rock star, rocket scientist. And then following that, he had the Choate School at Connecticut University in Beirut. American school, community school. American community school. And then, I don't know, maybe we'll learn tonight the evolution of him going to India, but then he got a master's degree at Delhi University in Buddhist studies. Report an error

5:46 And then somewhere before or after that, he took ordination with Shijong Rinpoche and then later full ordination with Ling Rinpoche. And he's a classical Tibetan translator. He's taught extensively all over the world. Here, he taught at Latin Medicine Buddha, many other places, and right now I believe he's teaching at Deer Park. Report an error

6:11 We very much thank Vinoba George for coming. He's actually here to translate a text with Lama Zopa Rinpoche and with Geshe-la's help. Report an error

6:27 Thanks, Charles. Is this help? Those in the back, can you hear okay? Judith, can you hear? Okay, you can hear because you answered, okay. Can you hear me back there, sir? Okay. Nice to see you. Is it too reverberating? Can you hear me okay? Okay. We'll do a meditation in a second. I just want to say hi. As Charles kindly introduced, my name is George. Actually, I have an ordination name, Thubten Sultrim. Report an error

7:00 But when I say that to people and they... They say, I say, just call me George. So it's easier to remember, easier to say. I've been a monk since the fall of 1975. And in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, the FPMT with Lama Yeshe was my first ordination teacher. And we took the... 1975. Report an error

7:34 preliminary Preliminary vows at Copan in 1975 and then in the spring of 76 with Kamshi Trijang Rinpoche who was one of the tutors of the Dalai Lama with the novice vows and the next year with Kamshi Ling Rinpoche who was the so-called senior tutor. Senior in the sense that he was appointed before the other one. It's not like one was considered higher to the Dalai Lama. So I've had a chance to hear a lot of Dharma teachings and study. Report an error

8:04 Hopefully a little bit. And I'm just visiting here right now and had a chance to share some time with you. So let's begin with a little meditation. Is that okay? Well, if you sit comfortably, I will lead us in a little meditation. Rather than saying prayers, which is the tradition amongst traditional Tibetan method. Report an error

8:33 I'd like to do some meditation that will incorporate the meaning of the prayers. First, just relax your body and much more difficult, relax your mind. Report an error

8:48 Remind yourself everything, whatever worries you might have, preoccupations or anticipations will in hindsight seem very trivial over time. They're all impermanent. Report an error

9:05 And first of all, bring your attention to your respiration, your breathing. Report an error

9:12 Without controlling it, just watch the inhalation, recognizing it as inhaling, recognize when you're exhaling, and let the other thoughts dissipate. Let go of your other thoughts. If Report an error

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10:12 a thought comes up depriving you of your attention to the breathing, just let go of it. Don't try to force it away. Just let go of it and bring your attention back to the breathing. If you're distracted by the sounds on the street or the... Feelings in your body, let go and focus again on the breathing. Now Report an error

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11:44 if your mind is a little bit calmed, follow one respiration, one inhalation as it goes up your nostrils, as though it was coming down to your heart chakra, the middle of your chest, and leave your attention there. Let go of watching the breathing and just focus on your mind, your mental consciousness. Report an error

12:23 Your mental consciousness is that within which you think, you plan, you judge, you remember. Mind Report an error

12:34 is the consciousness, the mental consciousness is the entity within which we have attachment and hatred and also love and compassion, wisdom. Those are not states of mind. Report an error

12:54 Those are not states of mind that take place in our eye consciousness or ear, nose, taste or tactile consciousness. They take place in the mental consciousness. Try Report an error

13:13 to see the consciousness, one part of the consciousness watching the rest, whatever thoughts are passing through it as though they were perhaps fish within an aquarium. And Report an error

13:35 rather than focusing on the fish-like thoughts or observations, Memories, judgments, focus on the space-like or water-like quality Report an error

13:52 of the mind within which they're arising that's formless, spacious, Report an error

14:02 unobstructing. Whenever Report an error

14:18 a thought arises or distraction disturbs you, let go of it by recognizing it as arising within the entity of the mind, the space-like substance, and defocus on the thought. Refocus on the space-like mind within which it's rising, thereby depriving the thought of its longevity. You Report an error

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15:25 may notice in the background the sense of the presence of your body. That too is just an observation within your consciousness. Let go of that. Try to sense the consciousness, the mental consciousness within which that observation is arising. If Report an error

16:11 there's a pain in your knee or... Wherever, recognize that as being observed within the consciousness. Defocus on that and refocus within the substratum of the mind within which that's arising. This vast, clear light nature of the mind. Notice Report an error

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17:18 that within the mind there might still be a duality, a sense of an observer, a self, which is observing the mind. That too is just a construct, just an appearance to your mind. Report an error

17:37 Let go of that fearlessly and dive into the spaciousness of your mind, thinking to experience a non-dualistic apprehension of the consciousness, just the mind knowing itself without the sense of a separate observer or self. Report an error

18:27 Occasionally go back and recognize your body and relax it again. Again, focus on your consciousness. The Report an error

18:46 Buddha taught that the root cause of all of our problems within cyclic existence is the appearance and apprehension, grasping to this sense of I that arises within our mental consciousness, like an illusion, Maya, thinking Report an error

19:15 how fortunate we are to hear about the methods to bring about that wisdom. To find real, deep transformation, Report an error

19:31 purification, evolution through realizing selflessness and emptiness. How all other living beings, whether they be humans or animals, insects, beings that are experiencing the hells or spirit realms, animals, gods, the anti-gods, the beings in the bardo state, all of them. Over the course of time have been our mothers, not just once, but like our present mother, they've been our mother numberless times in the past, have been depthlessly kind and Report an error

20:24 are still enmeshed, whatever their level of success or suffering, still enmeshed in cyclic existence due to this grasping to the self, have Report an error

20:47 the same potential we do to develop. Realization to overcome their faults, to become enlightened. They have the same Buddha nature that we do. They have the same right as we do. Whatever sublime or terrible things we might have imagined they have done in the past or in the present, this Report an error

21:19 evening, during this next short period of time, listening to the teachings, listening to the conversation, I'm going to be doing so. For their benefit, listening to the Dharma, analyzing with a fresh mind things that I may have heard before to Report an error

21:42 revivify my Dharma motivation, both to overcome my own suffering by evolving, but with a higher motivation to do so, not just for my own benefit, but for the welfare of all living beings. I Report an error

22:13 think I'm going to participate this evening. In order to quickly achieve enlightenment, a state that's free of all faults, has developed all qualities, I'm going to do that, not just for my own benefit, but for the welfare of all living beings. And Report an error

22:56 before you rise from this meditation and motivation, again, watch your respiration and Report an error

23:08 compare it to the level of subtlety or grossness that it was at the beginning. Report an error

23:28 I'm curious, Report an error

23:45 what did your breathing, was it any different at the end? Report an error

23:51 More calmer? When you're watching the breathing, the object which is one of the great meditations of all traditions, not just Buddhist, also Hindu and others, you're watching a relatively gross object and so the degree of... Subtlety that the mind can develop is limited. But when you begin to watch something that's more constant, like the continuity of the mental consciousness, something more subtle, doing this kind of analytical meditation, your breathing, your whole respiration and your metabolism will slow down more. Report an error

24:32 So it's worth going beyond simply watching your breathing in the morning or something. It's worth doing other kinds of meditation, analytical meditation. So, Report an error

24:47 rather than giving a formal teaching about some particular Dharma subject, I mentioned to the spiritual coordinator, or what's the title now called? SPC, I think, Spiritual Program Coordinator, Charles, that maybe I could speak a little bit about how to practice As a Westerner in the West, rather than a Westerner in the East, because we have, as you undoubtedly encounter, there are a lot of obstacles. Report an error

25:37 We're in a society that does not in general ascribe to the kinds of basic premises that we find in, let's say, in India or China. Many, many people culturally believe. Report an error

25:57 you yourself might be predisposed to that or maybe you have doubts about that but certainly you find yourself in a culture where it's not it's considered a little bit or suspect you know shirley mclean and know there's a lot of wackos out there excuse me with all due respect and You know, if you tell your parents you believe or your friends that you believe in reincarnation, you might be categorized in that saying, oh, you believe you were King Tut, do you? Report an error

26:30 So we Report an error

26:35 are at a disadvantage in that way, although we may have predispositions to be receptive to basic Buddhist ideas. Report an error

26:46 Also, the frenetic nature of our lifestyles, the speed at which... Our lives seem to be the necessary speed in order to keep up, giving us less and less chance to just sit and abide. So these are obstacles that we have to try to overcome. They are what in the Buddhist tradition are called adverse conditions. Report an error

27:16 We could translate them as adverse conditions. And one of the great practices of the Mahāyāna The great vehicle is the transformation of adverse conditions in such a way that they become conducive conditions. There is nothing from the point of view of the Buddhist path, there's nothing from Buddhist conception that is an inherent or absolute or ultimately adverse condition. Report an error

27:54 When you suffer, when the Dalai Lama suffered and the Tibetan people suffered the exile from Tibet, or at least those who exiled and escaped, or under the domination of the Chinese, one might think, oh boy, that's an adverse condition. What can you do? You just have to bear with that. But there's a way to think that allows you to, whenever something like that happens, whenever something... Report an error

28:25 Unfortunate or suffering or uncomfortable or unhappy happens to you to recognize it immediately as the results, the ripening of the results of your past negative deeds. And that's very, very skillful. Rather than focusing on the outside situation and your response to it, unhappiness, and all of the accompanying... Report an error

29:00 your mind, exaggerating that and trying to analyze it in some worldly fashion. They did that. It's their fault, this and that. Taking your mind away from that and looking at the fundamental cause. Report an error

29:15 own, for our continuing within cyclic existence, our own karma that we've created in the past, and our continuity of disturbed states of mind that Buddhism in the Sanskrit language, they call klesha. We can translate that as disturbing emotions or delusions, Report an error

29:41 root delusions, three poisonous minds, attachment, anger, ignorance, all of the other 84,000 types of disturbing states of mind that the Buddha taught, 84,000 teachings to overcome are ramifications of those. Report an error

30:05 I'll mention tomorrow on the 792, I like to, I'm not sure if I can get the copyright on this term, egosphere. If I state now, I'm making claim to this, you know, remember ecosphere? I'm the egosphere. Our egosphere is that, I like to say, within which these three... States these poisonous minds can be understood. Attachment is a state of mind that recognizes something impinging upon our ego sphere that's pleasant and exaggerating its qualities, wanting to keep it within our ego sphere, our, you know, our possession, our, you know, within us, our experience. Report an error

31:01 Anger or hatred, all of the ramifications that are another state of mind when we experience something. That has impinged upon our sphere of being, our ego sphere, that's unpleasant and therefore we want to have it removed from our ego sphere. Either demolished, destroy it so the ashes are still there but it doesn't function or banished or maybe flight, we escape from it, fight or flight. Report an error

31:35 Ignorance in a very basic sense might be one that's oblivious. Not necessarily either attached or angered by something, but just oblivious of its origination, the fact that it's a dependent arising, arising because of causes and conditions. Report an error

31:57 So taking your attention away from, you know, in everyday life, whatever is happening, occasionally at your desk, on the bus, maybe be careful in the car meditating because you have to watch the traffic too. But other than that, you can still bring your mind inside, be introspective again and again throughout the day and recognize whatever you're experiencing, whether it be pleasant or unpleasant, is the result of your past negative karma. Report an error

32:32 This is a way of integrating the Dharma into your everyday practice. Maybe you know the concept of meditation. is something we Buddhists extol very much. Many times when people come to the monastery where I'm living in Wisconsin, school kids and other people, one of the questions they always ask is, how many hours do you meditate every day? Report an error

33:01 That's the gauge, the quantity of meditation that you do. Basically, from a Buddhist perspective, meditation... means to familiarize our mind with a wholesome state. This is a definition that the future Buddha Maitreya gave in one of his great texts, the five texts that he transmitted to the world. Report an error

33:33 In fact, the word in Tibetan for familiarization is spelled almost the same, gom, as gom is the word. Familiarize. Familiarize and meditate. Almost spelled the same. And they have an intricate, integral relationship. So you can say that you're meditating and not just say that you're meditating. You are meditating. Even if you're not doing some kind of formal meditation, sitting on a cushion, you could be meditating in the bus. You don't have to put incense up on the windowsill and light a candle. Report an error

34:12 Chanting Aum and making a spectacle of yourself. You can just look like everyone else and be familiarizing through your previous familiarity with the Dharma teachings, familiarizing with those teachings. And there are various ways, as I just mentioned a moment ago, of integrating all of the events of your lifetime into the practice of Dharma. Report an error

34:46 So even though you may be living in a situation where there's a lot of trauma, hardship or what seem to be adverse conditions, I'm not sure what you consider San Francisco. Report an error

35:03 People in New York like to joke that's a tough place to live. What do they think? San Francisco, do you think this is a good, especially Haight Street here, this is maybe okay, right? Maybe you wouldn't say, what's he talking about adverse conditions? We have good pizza down the block. I've got cable TV, high-speed internet. Come on, what's he talking about? Report an error

35:24 Adverse conditions, in a sense, means conditions that can diverge you from your spiritual practice, from being true to yourself, to your own eventual liberation, and divert you from developing qualities to work for others, the qualities of compassion and love. So those adverse conditions might in a sense seem external, but they often are internal also. You can also transform your inner obstacles, your own anger, your own attachment, your own jealousy, your own pride. Report an error

36:06 If you recognize them, there's a chance of utilizing them also because that gives you the opportunity to apply the antidotes to them. If you just let them happen, what was it some years ago, primal scream and different kinds of psychological therapies that say just go with it, let it out. Report an error

36:31 Maybe recognizing it, but not necessarily recognizing it as negative. From a Buddhist perspective, recognizing these states as contributing to your own future suffering and your own immediate discomfort. Your anger causes your metabolism to change, your appearance to change. It predisposes you to speak harsh words in such a way that those that are close to you, with whom you've developed intimate, kind relationships over a long period of time, that kind of relationship to be ruptured in just a short moment because of anger. Report an error

37:14 In the practice of... Integrating Buddhism in everyday life, there's a kind of methodology to be aware of. Report an error

37:26 You have to recognize, first of all, the states of mind that are arising to be able to distinguish what is beneficial and what is harmful to you, unskillful. Report an error

37:41 Not to lay a heavy trip on yourself, not to think, oh, I'm a bad person, I have so much lust, I have so much anger, I have so much laziness or whatever, but to recognize them. is rising within your mind they had some causal evolution and this is in your observation This gives you the opportunity to work to eliminate that which is detrimental and to enhance that which already is there, some moments of generosity, moments of kindness. Report an error

38:18 Enhance that. And in addition to generate that which has never been generated recently, you know, altruistic thoughts, you know, it's possible. This is what we can be doing with our life every day. Report an error

38:39 In the teachings, Mahāyāna teachings about the subject, so-called lojong, have you heard that term, some of you? Training of the mind. One of the principal precepts, you might say, encapsulating everything is, Report an error

39:01 The whole purpose of training of the mind is to develop the two types of enlightenment mind or bodhicitta. We might say relative bodhicitta and ultimate bodhicitta. What does that mean? Bodhicitta is a technical term in Buddhism. I bet there's some of you who haven't heard that before. Maybe everyone here is a student of the center, I don't know. Bodhi... Report an error

39:27 is an Indian word that means enlightenment. Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree. You've heard that? enlightenment tree. Report an error

39:38 Bodhisattva is an individual courageous being who's aiming for bodhi, aiming for enlightenment for the sake of living beings. That particular relative mind, that state of mind that's aiming altruistically to achieve enlightenment for the sake of others is called relative bodhicitta. Report an error

39:58 One... An individual who has that kind of motivation to work for others, almost, can I say, maybe I'm in San Francisco, I can say this maybe, it's almost like the difference between Democrat and Republican. Report an error

40:16 No, I shouldn't say, I don't know if I can say that or not. There was a song in earlier days when I was in college, do you remember the song We Gotta Get Out of This Place? I think that's a little bit like the Mahāyāna. As opposed to, I got to get out of this place. That wasn't a song as far as I know, but that would be kind of like the Hinayana attitude. Report an error

40:45 So the Mahāyāna attitude is one that's thinking to achieve the greatest transformation of your mind for the welfare of others, recognizing that whatever we do right now may have some benefit for them. But it pales in comparison to what we can do as our mind becomes more evolved, as we become enlightened. Or when we become enlightened, then we can really help them without any kind of problem. Report an error

41:14 Once that kind of motivation is there, at least in some way, if you recognize the essential ingredient to develop that state of enlightenment is a deep wisdom. Report an error

41:30 Not only distrusts the ego, but sees it, the ego as an illusion, and that the mind, the ignorant mind that's grasping to that ego identity, that in itself instigates our attachment, our anger, our jealousy, our pride, our depression, our low self-esteem. The ego's appearance and the grasping to it are countered. Report an error

42:01 by a wisdom that the Buddha taught, the wisdom of emptiness or the wisdom of selflessness. That wisdom itself, conjoined with the altruistic wish to achieve enlightenment, is called the ultimate bodhicitta, the ultimate mind of enlightenment. Report an error

42:20 So it's said that all of the training of the mind can be summarized into developing of those two. So we can alternate at various points of the day. Sometimes working on our love, our compassion, our patience. And in order to do so, we need the fundamental teachings of Buddhism. Karma, the edict of the Buddha, let's say, the teaching of the Buddha, the observation that all that we experience within cyclic existence is of the nature of suffering. Report an error

42:56 Even the so-called pleasurable things that we experience within cyclic existence. are what the Buddha called contaminated happiness, contaminated pleasure, contaminated in the sense that they have arisen because of past actions, past karma that were motivated out of basic unknowing, basic grasping to true existence, contaminated in another sense by our present experiencing of those pleasures with a mind that's grasping to them as real. Report an error

43:31 Oh, man. This is real happiness. These are called contaminated happiness and they can never really bring us the satisfaction that we long for. I Report an error

43:49 remember teaching in Holland once. I think it's the capital. Den Haag is the capital. I was at the university there teaching a seminar on development and the teacher had asked me to teach the one class on mental development. And they were very distinguished people. I think it was kind of like, not just a graduate course, but for the general public. Report an error

44:18 There was a gentleman who stood up when I was talking about the fact that what we call happiness is actually the nature of suffering, contaminated happiness. And he stood up and he cleared his throat. He had a nice herringbone suit on and he said, you don't actually expect us to believe that, do you? Report an error

44:40 From a Buddhist perspective, what we experience as happiness is the diminishing of one's suffering by coming in contact with something else. Let's say this diminishing of hunger by coming in contact with food, the suffering of food. Report an error

44:59 Or let's say the diminishing of heat on your body when you're hot. You come into the air-conditioned house. The diminishing of the heat by coming in contact with the cold, which itself... is contaminated suffering, but while the greater suffering is going down, diminishing, the lesser suffering is still increasing. We experience that relief as happiness, as pleasure. Report an error

45:26 But then, when the cool exceeds the heat, we recognize that as changed. One of the reasons Buddha called changeable suffering. All of the pleasure, That we long for within cyclic existence, sweet ego-pleasing words like I love you or pleasure of the senses, fame, possession, power, ecstasy of exercise, ecstasy of sexual bliss and so forth. Report an error

46:09 All of them, if you really go and check, and this is something you can do. During the day, not only analyzing your suffering, analyzing the pleasures. Is it really something that is substantial? Is it real happiness? The Buddha taught what we experience as happiness within cyclic existence is just the diminishing of one's suffering, exchanging it with another. Report an error

46:38 See if during this next 45 minutes or whatever we have left, if you can think of some counterexample. He must be wrong about something. There must be something that's real. The more licorice I eat, am I always... No, no, I know I get overdosed on licorice. Peanut butter, sex, TV maybe, no. No, you can't find anything. Fame. Report an error

47:02 So these, you know, part of your day spent on developing conventional bodhicitta. Alternating with moments of recognizing, trying to understand egolessness, ultimate bodhicitta, always supported by the fundamental teachings of Buddha about karma, truth of suffering, truth of the cause of suffering and so forth, the four normal truths. Report an error

47:27 These are the quintessential teachings that you can go back and familiarize with as you're spending your day. You may look like you're in your little cubicle in the law office or in the advertising agency or selling the cars on the lot or painting your art in the studio or doing whatever you do or yourself being the therapist sitting on the sofa with your patients. Report an error

48:02 Maybe once in a while you also look at your own mind. Don't just be, know. Thinking of the others. There are many within the text that talk about training of the mind and the means to transform adverse conditions that we experience now into the path. This is some of the essential ingredients. One is always be thinking of using your time to develop these two important facets of the path. Report an error

48:40 Conventional bodhicitta, always enhancing your compassion, your love, your patience, and conversely, to develop the wisdom that realizes egolessness. And that requires some familiarity with the teachings. So to come and listen to the very great scholar, yogi, who teaches, a resident teacher here at Geshe Nawandagwa, don't want to talk about it. Report an error

49:11 Who is sort of a little, I think, hidden gem. And I think you're very fortunate right now to have an exceptional translator to not only personality and powerhouse in her own right, but recognizing this as a conduit to be able to get to this gem of Geshe-la's experience and expertise. Report an error

49:39 You have to hear the teachings to be able to... Remember them. If you haven't heard, there's no way you can remember them unless you have the clairvoyance to remember hearing them in past lives or something like that. Report an error

49:56 So one of the ingredients of mind training, which you can be doing all day, is to always think, this is my basic strategy when you get up in the morning, I'm going to use the day to develop the two bodhicittas, relative bodhicitta. The altruistic wish to achieve enlightenment for the sake of others, so that means all of the facets of that, love and compassion and so forth, and also wisdom of emptiness, without which there's no way I can actualize that. Report an error

50:26 And then the way the essential first method to transform adverse conditions into the path is to recognize this is the opportunity of exhausting. The results of your past negative karma, whenever you experience suffering. There's a verse in what the Tibetans call Lama Chopa. I think you probably do hear every month twice or more. Guru Puja, translated in Sanskrit. There's a verse in there that, in the beginning of the verses about transforming the adverse conditions into the mind, it goes something like this, if translated into English. Report an error

51:13 When the vessel world, that means the environment, when the environment and the beings therein are filled with the results of our past negative actions and undesired suffering falls like rain, does that sound familiar? I don't mean the translation, I mean the experience. Please grant me blessings to transform these adverse conditions into the path by seeing... Report an error

51:46 These sufferings as the exhaustion of my past negative actions. So that's just the first hint. That in itself is one way to begin to transform adverse conditions. There are other adjuncts of that, but that's sort of like a hint. It's nothing necessarily, absolutely, ultimately, inherently negative. The suffering is like at the beginning when I was saying when the Tibetans... Report an error

52:18 We're forced out of Tibet or invaded by the communist Chinese and so forth. Whatever you experience gives you an opportunity of looking at in many different ways. One way, one fundamental way, just thinking, ah, wow, I finished that. That karma. You might say, someone might argue, oh no, well I know karma sometimes has many, many repetitive results. Why am I so happy? Report an error

52:45 But at least that part's done. That debt is finished. If you respond to suffering or even pleasure with discordant minds, unskillful minds like hatred or resentment, anger, or in the case of pleasure, attachment or pride, yeah, I deserve that. That compliment was real. Now they know. They recognize how good I am. Report an error

53:18 If you respond to negative or positive things with discordant minds like that, you create the karma to experience them again and again in the future. Report an error

53:30 So to think, okay, responding with patience and Report an error

53:38 taking your attention away from the experience of suffering, if it's an uncomfortable situation, rather than focusing on that and concretizing it. And feeling uncomfortable about it, taking your attention away and thinking about something which is actually beneficial for you, that this is the result of my past negative karma. Report an error

54:04 Already the tension goes away. Report an error

54:11 A teacher I had in England, Tibetan teacher I had in England many years ago, when I came to him one day and told him I was feeling a little unhappy, he said to me again and again, don't need unhappy mind. Don't need unhappy mind. Report an error

54:30 And of course, my response at the time, the first initial response, I mean, don't need it, it's there. Don't need it. But really, when we experience something, whether it be physical discomfort or mental, that's something that we perceive, you know, your baby done left you. Report an error

54:50 I like to think that's the, my baby done left me, I think, is the quintessential element of all blues music, right? Who sang that? Where's that from? My baby done left me. Report an error

55:10 Quintessential element of all. It's sort of like all country and western music. Someone stole my tractor. Instead of focusing on that and all the elaborations of that, recognizing that that's making you unhappy. You don't need unhappy mind. Let's say, for instance, if you feel some suffering, physical suffering, not talking about something you've exaggerated mentally, and you think, gosh, this is really terrible, that makes it worse. Report an error

55:52 You're now experiencing unhappiness about it. So just to let go, to recognize that is the ripening of your past negative karma and to feel pleasure, happiness, mental... Mental satisfaction about that. There's a first step in transforming adverse conditions into the path. Going further, recognizing this is giving me the opportunity to practice patience, which is the greatest of virtues. Report an error

56:23 I Report an error

56:28 remember climbing the hill that leads to Vulture's Peak in India. You know, you've heard of Vulture's Peak where the Buddha taught the Heart of Wisdom Sūtra, the Prajnaparamita Sūtra. The discourse is on the perfection of wisdom. Great pilgrimage place, very sacred place, very small location at the top in the explanation of why it's called Vulture's Peak. Report an error

56:58 It's kind of like massive vultures peak. There wasn't enough room for all of the bodhisattvas and the hearers and solitary realizers to sit, so some of those with psychic powers... We're out in space around that, so they were like vultures. That's one etymology of that. Maybe there were vultures there also. Report an error

57:20 Anyway, climbing that mountain, I was with some Dharma friends and I twisted my ankle and one dear Dharma friend came over and said, oh, you're so lucky. Report an error

57:41 My mind, you know, you're purified, you're going on this pilgrimage. Such incredible purification, so lucky. This is how we should, you know, to be able to think. At the moment sometimes if we're not familiar with that, if we haven't done some formal familiarization with that, it's very difficult at the time, at the dynamic time to apply the antidote. Report an error

58:12 That's why we have to do, to integrate the Dharma in our everyday life, we have to spend time in formal meditation, morning, evening. every year, hear the teachings again and again, to do some formal meditation. That's like your basic training. Report an error

58:30 let's say, for instance, Jack. Jack and I are inducted. We're a little too old to be inducted in the Army, but we're inducted into the Army. Report an error

58:40 we feel we're a little bit entitled, and instead of doing the basic training, learning how to the cannon and the missiles and all these things, we're reading... We're surfing the web or playing with our iPads or whatever. And when the time comes, the war, and they say, you know, you have to fight the enemy, and then we say, oh, let me read the manual now. Report an error

59:04 It's a little too late. You have to do the basic training first. In the same way, to apply the antidotes to the delusions, you have to know the antidotes. You have to have applied them before in meditation. Otherwise, if it's the very first time you're applying them, it's going to be difficult. Like I was telling David this morning, like the mafia kingpin who's been nasty all his life, this Catholic, let's say, and knows that at the time of death, if you repent, you can go to heaven. Report an error

59:36 But he's never repented his whole life. It's going to be difficult at that last moment, you know, unless you're familiar. Report an error

59:46 So Report an error

59:52 this is giving me the opportunity of applying the antidotes to the delusions, whatever occurs. Also the temptations. When temptation comes, the temptation to be lazy or to steal or to engage in some inappropriate, what you recognize as inappropriate relationship with someone else, someone else's friend. Report an error

1:00:20 To maybe degrade someone else because you want the respect of that other person that the third party is offering them. So you degrade this person, put blame upon them. Recognizing our behavior is inappropriate. Then if you're familiar with the teachings, to apply the antidotes to that. Our teacher, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, again and again, one of the things he tries to emphasize to us Westerners, a very special method. Report an error

1:00:53 Part and parcel of the Buddhist teachings is the practice of rejoicing. You know what rejoicing means? Rejoicing means two parts of rejoicing. One is to, when others experience the result of their past virtuous deeds, to feel good about that. When they are praised, when they experience wealth or happiness or beauty or success, to think, wow. Report an error

1:01:25 That's wonderful. Rather than feeling resentment or jealousy, as is often the case, rejoicing is one of the great antidotes of jealousy, resentment and so forth. And it has the subsidiary effect, and it depends on how you're thinking of it, of creating virtuous karma. You're rejoicing thinking, They've created the dependent arising. They've created the virtuous karma in the past to experience this. No matter what kind of jerk they are now, you can still fall back on part of your negative mind that thinks they don't deserve it. Report an error

1:02:14 They still, they created the karma for this fantastic, may all living beings experience this. In so doing, you're creating... For yourself to experience happiness in the future. Also for you to create those kind of actions as you rejoice in that, thinking they must have been generous in the past to receive this wealth. Report an error

1:02:36 Or they must have been ethical in the past to be so beautiful. They must have spoken in a pleasing way in praising others in the past to be praised by others now. Report an error

1:02:50 In rejoicing in that, You're predisposing yourself to do those virtuous actions. Also, when you see others performing virtuous actions, that's the other part of rejoicing. Not only rejoicing in the effects of past virtues, but in the creation of virtues. Rather than feeling competition with others, someone's done 100,000 water bowls at Seichen Ling. Report an error

1:03:16 Who do they think they are? They don't have bodhicitta motivation. You're trying to degrade it somehow in your own mind. Wow, that's so great. I wish I could do that. That will have some kind of positive results in the future. These are ways of integrating the teachings, transforming the events of the day into the Dharma. Report an error

1:03:43 Always taking as your basic background development of these two facets, conventional bodhicitta, ultimate bodhicitta. We can say in a sense when we talk in the teachings also of the three fundamental practices of the path, three fundamental aspects of the path, renunciation, conventional bodhicitta and the wisdom of emptiness. Report an error

1:04:08 You say, well, you're talking about these two, conventional bodhicitta and ultimate bodhicitta. What about renunciation? Well, renunciation is in a sense all of the teachings that act as the foundation for these two. So in order to develop bodhicitta... Report an error

1:04:24 The wish to achieve enlightenment for the sake of others. You have to recognize the depth of suffering of cyclic existence, the suffering nature of even Indra, the presidents and the kings and the wealthy, the Hollywood stars or whoever you might envy as thinking they are experiencing great pleasure. Report an error

1:04:49 You have to recognize the suffering nature of that. presupposes a deep training and understanding of renunciation. Report an error

1:05:07 There is also in the Lama Chopra and in the extensive teachings that the Kadampa Geshes, the followers of Atisha, brought and sustained in Tibet. There's a teaching about when negative things take place in your mind, in your life, to make offerings to the Dharma protectors. Report an error

1:05:36 As an antidote to that, the first thing in our minds is praying to the Dharma protectors, get rid of this suffering, may we be free of this. But the actual teaching is whatever is most beneficial, if this suffering is going to be beneficial, bring it on. Report an error

1:05:55 Wasn't it George Bush when he was trying to... Bring it on. Mike was so cocky. So you can... You can have that kind of pride, you know. Dharma protectors, if this is going to be beneficial, bring it on. I'm going to be, you know. So whatever happens, if you really have faith in that sense, even more suffering comes, you think, it's good because I prayed. Report an error

1:06:24 I've requested the Dharma protectors who are omniscient and omnipotent that if it's beneficial for me and sentient beings, bring it on. If it's not, May it be pacified so maybe the problem disappears. So this is one way, making offerings, trauma offerings to the Dharma protectors. Report an error

1:06:54 Let me leave some time for you to investigate some of your own interests. Maybe you, as practitioners in the West, you might have particular questions and then that will give me a chance to elaborate something else that might be of interest to you. So if you have something that comes to mind. Report an error

1:07:18 There's also a Phil over there somewhere. Report an error

1:07:27 So my question is, what is your opinion about what is cultural specific in the Dharma? For example, we're learning, we're studying the 50 verses of Guru Devotion and there are some things that are, for example, approaching your teacher with using specific... Report an error

1:07:57 I don't remember how it's called, but like before, you know, before their name, you say your eminence or your presence, I believe, things like this, or certain things that we're, that is from Asia, for example, not pointing your feet towards the throne or the images of the Buddha, which things like this. Report an error

1:08:15 So I was wondering in your experience, do you think us Buddhist practitioners should be, should we like kind of Taking those things or those are things that should probably be changed as Buddhism grows in the West? Well, I think there are ways that we don't have to necessarily use the same exact terminology. Report an error

1:08:35 Let's say, for instance, instead of addressing the teacher, instead of saying, yo, hey, even in our culture that would be considered, you know, what's the word, dissing them, right? Report an error

1:08:54 I mean, not completely. Maybe some places that's considered really friendly. Hey, yo. Hey, bro. So within our own culture, also to use that which, yeah, which is recognized within our own culture as respect and not to be caught up with, like say for instance when the Dalai Lama, people come to visit the Dalai Lama, often they want to try to bring kata, you know, this white ceremonial scarf, I don't know if there's some around, you know what a kata is? Report an error

1:09:26 And His Holiness says, that's just Tibetan. I can't go. You just come with respect. In our culture, if you come to visit someone, it's probably not appropriate to bring the Dalai Lama six-pack. That might be a way. In some cultures, but you find that which is appropriate. If you go to visit your aunt, you wouldn't bring a six-pack. You might bring some candy or flowers or something like that. Report an error

1:10:03 In a sense, you'll find some cultural corollary of that. In the particular thing about pointing one's feet at sacred objects and so forth, generally we don't do that even in everyday life. Report an error

1:10:23 Maybe around the campfire or something like that or sitting in the television room with mom and dad and grandma. Maybe we're reclining out. But still then, if you have respect for grandma or grandpa or mom and dad or other people that you've, in a sense, you've grown up to recognize are objects of respect, usually you sit upright. Report an error

1:10:46 Also, when they come into the room, you get up. You make a seat for grandma, mom, dad. In our own cultures in the West, too, we recognize it as a little bit disrespectful. An elder or a person who we respect comes in and you just sit down and act in some disrespectful way. So there are corollaries of these that fit in our culture. It's said that, for instance, there are karmic repercussions Report an error

1:11:25 Let's say of denigrating the Dharma, let's say Dharma text, if you use it to sit on, you know, it's too cold, give me that Dharma book, I'll use it as a cushion. You create some, perhaps unknowingly sometimes, some obstacle to making, to developing understanding. Say for instance, what's your name? Ricardo. Say for instance, Ricardo, if I were to say, Report an error

1:11:57 To you and your understanding of the Dharma, does a tiger or a lion, are they exempt from the law of cause and effect, karma, when they kill another animal because they can't live on grass? Do they not create negative karma by killing? What would you say? Report an error

1:12:17 Irregardless of what their opinion is. So, I agree with you. And we might say, that seems really, and some people have said, that seems really unfair. Buddhism is unfair. Report an error

1:12:29 Because the animal doesn't have any choice. Well, we would say also we'd understand they found themselves in a situation now because of their past karma where they have no choice but to create more negative karma. It's one of the repercussions of being born in the lower realms. So in the same sense, sitting on a Dharma text, tearing it out, using it to clean your teeth or toilet paper or something like that, creates perhaps unknowingly Even if you don't believe in it, it creates some obstacle to making realization. So some of them are cultural, some of the things that you're talking about, for instance in the 50 verses of Guru Devotion, are perhaps culturally specific. Report an error

1:13:13 Some of them are a little more general. Say, placing the feet, the soles of your feet towards something, being disrespectful and so forth. Report an error

1:13:23 Does that help a little? Report an error

1:13:31 I was referring to this instead of Mike, I was referring to it as Phil before. For those of you who are Joshers in the audience, I was just... I was having a kind of lively discussion with a friend of mine this morning trying to figure out a certain problem. So in certain jobs that people have where... Report an error

1:13:56 It feels like we're forced sometimes into a kind of non-virtue that we don't want to engage with, particularly with divisive speech. So for example, sometimes if you're a business person, you'll have to say something negative about your competitor in order to get a job. Or if you're a lawyer, especially in this case I was talking to someone who was a lawyer, and they were saying, well, that's my job, is actually to make this divisive speech. Report an error

1:14:26 And, you know, we're kind of struggling trying to figure out how to, the Buddhist approach to this, because a lot of the stories I hear about the Lamas who are so, so afraid of even the tiniest bit of negative karma that, you know, the minute they have a negative thought, they get down to the ground and start, you know, doing their Vajrasattva mantras and so on. Report an error

1:14:49 So my kind of initial response to this discussion was, you know... We should flee that job as quickly as possible because the negative repercussions are so strong. But I don't know if that's the most skillful response. Can you talk a little bit about that? My thought about that is when we talk within the Buddhist teachings, one of the teachings that's enshrined in the Theravāda tradition called the Eightfold Noble Path. Report an error

1:15:23 We find it in the Mahāyāna also, but that seems, when you talk about the main practice in some Theravāda's minds, the eightfold noble path, actually that's something that's beyond the path of seeing generally, that's what the Aryas practice. One of those eightfold right paths is right livelihood. To try to avoid your means of livelihood by its very nature. Report an error

1:15:52 Let's say being a butcher. Maybe many of us would, I hope there's no butcher among us here. I'm not sure. I don't want you to be offended if I say something. Most of us might recognize that as something we would avoid, flee, because although it might be lucrative or in a certain village or a certain place might be considered noble or they make the best chops up. Report an error

1:16:23 Kills the best pigs or whatever. It might be lauded in certain people's minds. You create negative karma by its nature. To work for a firm which you know is kind of, I don't know what word you'd use, maybe sleazy. There's a good word. Report an error

1:16:44 Disreputable. Cheats on its income tax and they ask you to do the book work. You create some... you know. Report an error

1:16:52 Negative karma in that way, as you're aware of that. To work in an industry that is detrimental, let's say, to living beings, creating armaments. You know, you can look at it from different points of view. There may be some bodhisattvas in that industry who recognize that some of these things are necessary to defend the country. Report an error

1:17:19 But as beginners, maybe it's... Better to avoid those kind of things. If you could become a noble lawyer and not have to exaggerate and create, you know, what was this lawyer saying? Sometimes they have to lie or exaggerate. Device of speech in particular, you know, speaking so that you start to have less and less of a good opinion of someone else. Report an error

1:17:50 Oh, I see, in court. Report an error

1:17:54 Yeah, so that's something that I think sometimes Report an error

1:18:04 we, in advising our children and our friends, sometimes we have to be, it may not actually be divisive speech because divisive speech is a state of mind that has an ulterior motive. It is desiring individuals to become separated. you know what I'm saying? Report an error

1:18:21 And imagining our, let's say, remuneration. Maybe I'll win the case. But if your point is justice, telling your children not to hang out with those bad kids, breaking the windows or stealing the hubcaps. I mean, they don't do that any longer. I don't know when they do that. That was when I was a kid. So that is not necessarily with an intention of your own gain. Report an error

1:18:52 Let's say the lawyer who might be arguing something so that he or she would win the case and make better salary or something like that, become more famed as a lawyer who always wins. Report an error

1:19:06 There are situations when you might speak dismissively of others or point out the faults of others to advise others not to follow that. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has advised, for instance, not to practice certain things. Report an error

1:19:22 So called Dharma protector that is something detrimental. And he has been criticized by followers of that as being unfair and what's the word they use? Religious persecution, intolerance and so forth. But he's just pointing out, there's nothing for his own gain, pointing out for the benefit of others. Report an error

1:19:46 So one has to make a distinction like that, I think. Good question. Report an error

1:19:57 So you mentioned at one point making prayers to Dharma protectors and offerings, offering atonement to Dharma protectors. We didn't grow up with that. So how do you interpret that for us? What's a way to look at that? Who are they? Where do they live? Where do they hang out? It's like all those kinds of questions start to come up. We've grown up with something like that. Report an error

1:20:17 In Chicago, anyway, we made offerings to the aldermen when you wanted to get the street fixed. You know, the garbage collected and things like that. So those are analogs. Those are worldly analogs. But Dharma protectors are beyond that. But there are worldly analogs of these because we know that sometimes... Report an error

1:20:39 Although you don't take refuge in the alderman. You know what alderman means? It means a sort of local government official, sort of semi-government or political official in your neighborhood who has some influence with the garbage pickup and the repairing of the streets. Sometimes in your street for two years the sewer is being put in because you didn't make an offering to the alderman, a local political hack or something. Report an error

1:21:04 So we know in the world we don't take refuge in them. Ultimate refuge, but you can take temporal refuge in Indra and spirits and things. You make offering to spirits to stop their harm, but without taking ultimate refuge in them as you would do in Buddha, Dharma and Saṅgha. In the same sense, in the world you might make offerings to expedite your worldly aims. Report an error

1:21:37 Like that, without taking ultimate refuge. So in the realm of Dharma protectors, well, if we already have a sense of what the enlightened mind means, omniscience, the enlightened mind can manifest in many forms. It can manifest as your neighbor. You may not know that that's an eminent, I don't mean your particular, maybe your particular neighbor, I didn't mean. Report an error

1:22:04 I don't know your neighbor right now, but it can be something very gross, it can be something very subtle that we have the more subtle manifestations like the Sambhogakaya, only the Arya Bodhisattvas can perceive. Report an error

1:22:20 Nirmanakaya, someone with pure karma can perceive, otherwise they just perceive, some people just perceived the Buddha, which was a Nirmanakaya emanation body, as just a guy. They didn't have the karma, pure karma to see, you know, an aura or special qualities. So depending on a person's, well let's say depending on the omniscient mind emanating in different forms, gross or subtle, the Dharma protectors are some of the more gross spiritual manifestations of the Buddha that we have more conducive, let's say more... Report an error

1:23:02 Ability to contact because they are a grosser form, like Mahakala or Paldal Lama or different. They're still, let's say, super mundane manifestations, but they're of a gross aspect and they have an entourage of perhaps worldly spirits. And so sometimes the bodhisattvas make offerings to them. And in fact, if you have bodhicitta, it's said that these dharma protectors... Report an error

1:23:32 You don't even have to request them. They protect you automatically. The Dalai Lama doesn't have to go around asking the Indian government for protection. The Indian government recognizes his great value and protects him anyway and the Tibetans and other people. Like that in the spiritual realm, Dharma protectors protect holy beings from obstacles. Report an error

1:23:56 But those of us who are aspiring to that, we can, in order to... Report an error

1:24:06 what we usually think of, protection, you know, doing these various kinds of offerings and requesting them. It's just like, remember Janis Joplin? Report an error

1:24:19 remember being at Laudo doing a retreat near Mount Everest and taking a break and going up on the side of the hill. I had my little shortwave radio and I was listening to the BBC and there was Janis Joplin singing a cappella. Oh Lord, won't you give me a Mercedes-Benz. They all have Porsches. I must make amends. You've heard that one, right? So that's usually how we think of this prayer. Oh, Mother Mary, Mother of Jesus, please let me have a baby. Report an error

1:24:50 Let me find the boyfriend or girlfriend, pass the exam. Oh, God, if I pass this exam, I'll always be good. Those are things. We're usually requesting something protecting us. Report an error

1:25:04 From a Dharma practitioner's point of view, what they would do, whether you think of, you could think of all of those as an analogy here to making torma, offering, it doesn't mean torma necessarily, offering or prayers to the protectors of the Dharma. You could say, Mother Mary, if it's better for me to flunk this test, may I fail miserably. If it's better that I pass, you still work, but we're always thinking of getting some outside. Report an error

1:25:37 Help from Mary or Jesus or Buddha or Manjushri or Mahakala or something, you know, as though maybe when the professor reads our exams, their eyes are clouded over and they don't see the mistakes. Or they see our wrong answers as correct or something like that. So to me, that's very powerful. Report an error

1:26:03 You know, it's a way that the bodhisattvas Report an error

1:26:10 know, and if we can emulate that, even in a little. There's always a way of integrating these very profound advices that the Buddha gave. You might think, oh, that only applies to very high beings. Nothing I can apply. But there's always a way of applying these teachings in our own life. So to, you know, just in your own mind, whatever happens. Report an error

1:26:31 know? Report an error

1:26:38 Praying to the Buddha, the omniscient mind, whether I have a comfortable life or an uncomfortable life, I place in your hands. I'm going to practice the Dharma and if it will be beneficial for me and living beings, for me to be successful or to be famous, that's one of the things that people often working to be, they don't want to be uncriticized or what's the other word? Report an error

1:27:06 you know, infamous or whatever. If it's beneficial, may I live in misery or poverty, but that predisposes a very powerful mind, doesn't it, to be able to pray that way, like bring it on. If it's suffering, if it's beneficial, bring it on. In terms of our culture, we do talk about... Report an error

1:27:40 Negative spirits and so forth. We do talk about, let's say, in the Abrahamic religions, at least in Christianity, we talk about various saints. We pray to St. Christopher for safety and journeys. Isn't that the saint of travel or something like that? St. Christopher and the different saints. This is like Dharma protectors in a sense. Report an error

1:28:08 You can think of an analogy. So we do have something similar in the West. But generally that's for protecting us from that. You don't hear so much people saying to Saint Christopher, if it's better for me to have a fender bender, may I have a fender bender? Report an error

1:28:23 But that's sort of the Buddhist idea. Report an error

1:28:31 Pass Phil over to her. Report an error

1:28:38 I'm still exploring the idea of reincarnation. So I was wondering to what extent... To what extent does your advice apply or do you have any additional advice in the cases where one hasn't fully accepted that? Report an error

1:28:55 Like I said at the very beginning, our culture is one that doesn't generally accept, it's not common parlance that everyone accepts reincarnation, whereas in India it's sort of, yeah, of course. Report an error

1:29:11 Here in the West it's, of course, atoms, molecules. Transistors, we take certain things for granted. Here's something that I find useful. When we, in the Buddhist tradition of logic and debate and study, there is a methodology in debating with someone in order to help them, not just to win or to put them down or humiliate them. Report an error

1:29:39 The purpose of debate. is to alleviate, to eliminate wrong conceptions in the other person's mind. So sometimes to show them the consequences of their wrong thinking through debate. So in order to, say for instance, to propose to them a correct logical reasoning for something, like say for instance that sound is impermanent, in order to present that to them, in their holding in their mind, Something that is contrary to that, that prevents them from even addressing that logic. You have to first cause them to doubt their presupposition, what they're already holding. Report an error

1:30:27 So they're not holding it. And then when they're in that state, then you can propose the correct proposition. So here's an example of reincarnations like this. We may be holding, all of us hold. Because of our cultural heritage, certain preconceptions. Perhaps we might think, I don't remember my past lives. Report an error

1:30:54 I certainly don't see the future lives. I can't even think of what's going to happen tonight, later tonight, let alone next life. Report an error

1:31:03 And my 21st century gurus, scientists and psychologists and brain scientists in the West, None of them say they see the past and the future, so therefore it must not exist. That might be something we're holding in our mind. So if someone were to propose to you that there are past lives existed and there will be future continuity of our mind stream, it sort of goes in one ear out the other because we're holding on to this, something that's contrary to that. Report an error

1:31:39 So to ask yourself, Report an error

1:31:43 Those individuals who say that they don't see past and future lives, do they say that they see the past and future, but they don't see lives there? Report an error

1:31:55 Or is it just that they don't see? Like for instance, if all the lights were out in here, the windows were blacked out, we're late at night, there's no traffic on the road, Charles has gone around with black masking tape, no light coming in the room, and all of you are sitting there silently. Not breathing loudly. And Charles, who is sitting here, says, is there any, okay, George, do you see, is anyone else in this room? And I say, I don't see anyone. Report an error

1:32:23 There's no one here. Is that, the fact that I don't see anyone, does that prove there's no one here? No, because I'm not capable of seeing one. It's dark. Report an error

1:32:37 Does that, you know, so is it like that? The scientists, the 21st century gurus, myself, my aunt, George Bush. Report an error

1:32:51 because they see, like being in the room? Say if I'm in the room, lights are on, I'm not inebriated, Charles is sitting here, there's no one else here, and he says, is there anyone else in the room? I look around and, no, I don't think so. that case, if I could see I don't perceive, then that could be a valid observation. Report an error

1:33:12 So then you take yourself, if you're... Honest with yourself, generally, you might say, I can't see the past and future, so I can't really say there's no continuity of life. They're in the 21st century gurus of scientists, psychologists. They don't have psychic powers in general. They don't claim to have. There's just, their non-observation is one of being like in the dark room. Report an error

1:33:36 They can't see the past and future. They don't know if there's anything there. And then take, on the other hand, not Shirley MacLaine. You know, who claims the past lives that she was Marie Antoinette or something. But Dalai Lama, other great beings, the Buddha, who have no ulterior motive to become famous. Report an error

1:33:56 You go through the list, you know. Are they deluded? Maybe they should be down in Bellevue or what's the mental hospital in? That's New York. What? Napa? Napa? Should they be in Napa? Are they taking LSD? They mean well. They're sort of senile, these old lamas. They mean well, but they're kind of like grandma or they have dementia. Report an error

1:34:20 No. These are people that have trained their mind very rigorously over a long period of time, are altruistic, kind, and they say, what's your name? Katya. Katya, be careful. Report an error

1:34:37 Your actions now will have repercussions in the future. Be careful. Observe karma. They're not trying to lay a trip on us. Compare them with ourselves, 20th century gurus who don't see the past and future. That's no evidence that past and future lives don't exist. Whereas there are individuals who act altruistically over a course of time that we experience them. Report an error

1:35:08 We may recognize them. They have clairvoyance, incredible compassion, wisdom, acting altruistically, and they say there are past and future lives. Report an error

1:35:19 That can begin to open up, you know, take away that strong doubt in the mind, at least open up the mind to the possibility, and then you can investigate from there. Report an error

1:35:33 Okay? Maybe that might be helpful. Yes? Venerable, thank you so much. I'm enjoying your presentation very much. I want to ask you, and I hope it's a proper question, could you talk a little bit about your meeting Lama Yeshe and a little bit maybe about your relationship with him? Report an error

1:36:00 Do you know who Lama Yeshe was? This is a photo of Lama Yeshe who is the teacher of Lama Zopa Rinpoche. Maybe some of you know Lama Zopa Rinpoche who's... I'm about the same age as Lama Zopa. We were born in 1945. Lama Zopa was a disciple of Lama Yeshe. Lama Yeshe was a Tibetan Lama who, when he was a young boy in Tibet, he was recognized as the reincarnation of an abbess, the female abbot of a nunnery nearby. Report an error

1:36:33 And the nuns used to come over to his house and take care of him when he was young. He always had a very feminine kind of loving attitude. kind of attitude. Report an error

1:36:44 I met Lama Yeshe in 1974 at Copan when I went to the monastery there to participate in the Copan course. And Lama Zopa was teaching to begin with. And after about a week or so, Lama Yeshe came back from the first trip to the West. America had visited Colorado and Trungpa Rinpoche and went to Seattle where the Sakya Lama was. Report an error

1:37:09 He visited the Lama in New Jersey, the Kalmak. Who I thinking of? Gashiwanga. Good. And he visited a lot of the centers in the West because a lot of the people that he had met previously that had been inspired to practice the Dharma, when they went back to the West, they found that it was very difficult to keep that Dharma flame alight. Report an error

1:37:33 And they wanted a Dharma injection, Lama said. So he came to give an injection of Dharma and to help them to perhaps develop a saṅgha, a center, like Seijin Ling. You know, where they can help to support your practice. So I remember Lama coming back and everyone was, you know, Lama Lundup and other people who now are the abbots of Copan. Report an error

1:37:56 They were just, you know, younger monks at that time. And I remember Lama Lundup prostrating in the dust in his robes when Lama Yeshe was coming out. Wow, what a jerk. Report an error

1:38:07 Why is he doing that? And so the incredible reverence to Lama Yeshe. I thought, what's so special about this guy? He's just smiling. He had the buck teeth, you know. And my first encounter with him was the next morning. I was coming out of the tent. It was breakfast time and Lama was coming out and walking. And I said, oh, nice day, isn't it? Report an error

1:38:31 And he said, oh, thank you, dear. And I said, what does he think? My mind was thinking, what does he think? That he, you know, he was responsible for the day. So my mind's already a little bit negative, you know. So a couple days later, Lama gave his first talk to the meditation course. There were about 200 Westerners. And I'm already predisposed to be a little, you know, this guy's not like, Lama Zopa's like, you know, so strict, you know, and Islam, she's smiling all the time and everyone. Report an error

1:39:03 So. everyone's, he's just, Someone asked a question and Lama answered the question to that person. The person was satisfied, but I didn't think Lama understood the question. So I said, George, excuse me, but he meant this, this, this, this. And Lama smiles and said, yes, dear. And I didn't think he'd answered, even understood what I said. And then I stopped for a second and I thought, he didn't answer my, his response was not an answer to my question, verbal question. Report an error

1:39:32 It was an answer to what was on my mind. He didn't care what people thought. He was just aiming to help living beings. And my mind completely changed in one instant. I became incredibly admiring of him in that moment and subsequently just saw great qualities of exceptional living bodhisattva, how to practice. Report an error

1:40:03 Lama, I remained... You know, a student of Lama's for about 10 years until he passed away. He died very young at 49. He had the same illness my mom had, mitral stenosis, a calcification of a valve of the heart from, I think, rheumatic fever when you're a child. And he was hospitalized here in California near the end of his life. And supposedly the doctors and the nurses were incredibly amazed because he should have been. Report an error

1:40:36 You know, in great pain and distress, but whenever he came in, he'd always, how are you, dear? How is your son? You know, always asking about them. Report an error

1:40:47 After Lama passed away, there was a search for his reincarnation, as is in the Tibetan tradition, for good or bad. And a little boy was recognized in Spain eventually at Osa Ling and called Lama Osa. Report an error

1:41:10 As reincarnation of Lama Yeshe, he was the son of two disciples of Lama Yeshe, a Spanish couple, Paco and Maria Gita. And I heard one story. Some of you may know, I don't know if any of you know Claudio Cipullo. Do you remember from Coba? Italian monk, Claudio. Claudio was at Osa Ling just when Lama Uso was born. They were doing a year-long purification, Vajrasattva, continuous, 24-hour. Report an error

1:41:40 And supposedly... the sessions, Claudio was leading the dedication prayers, praying for Lama Yeshe's reincarnation. And little boy is not yet named Lama Osel. He's crying in the back in Maria's arms. She brought him. And supposedly... Claudio turns around and says, keep that baby quiet. We're praying for Lama Yeshe's reincarnation. Claudio claimed he never said that, but I think that's true. Report an error

1:42:20 So I met Lama Osel at that time when he was just about three or something like that. He was enthroned at Tushita. It was in Time magazine, Newsweek magazine and so forth. And then he stayed with his parents for a while. He went to Sarah Monastery at a very young age and had... People living in that amongst the monks. His dad was there. And when he was about nine, Lama Zopa Rinpoche asked me to be his Western tutor. Report an error

1:42:54 So I tutored him for three and a half years at Sarah. Reading, writing, arithmetic. In fact, I learned more about Greek history than I did when I was... The Aztecs. I know what a ten-year-old kid should know. And, you know. You know, science and things like that. We had computers and we played. He was very much, you know, there's some attitude of Lama Yeshe. Report an error

1:43:24 I remember complaining to Lama Zopa one time that, you know, he said, how's Lama Zopa? I said, oh, he likes to play all the time. He doesn't want to study. And Lama Zopa said, you know, the Dalai Lama said that these... Report an error

1:43:46 Rinpoche is the Tukus. If they don't have a chance to play when they're young, later they'll be kind of spoiled. They'll play later when they should be serious. Report an error

1:43:59 And when I heard that, I said, oh, he's going to be really good. If they're not naughty when they're young, they'll be naughty later. I said, he's going to be really good later. Report an error

1:44:11 So I had a chance to sort of repay. In just some minuscule, microscopic, atomic, subatomic way, Lama's kindness, making that connection. Now he's not manifesting as a monk any longer. He's a lay person living in Spain, in Ibiza. In America we say Ibiza, the island off of Spain. And his brother, Kunken, who was a monk at the time, is also there. Did you know that, Kunken? Yeah, he's there also. And he visited... Report an error

1:44:44 Dear Park, for the first time I saw him in a long time, it was probably 10 years, 12 years, he was tall, he had a little goatee and he went to a rave one night with some girls and I felt his distancing himself from the formality of Tibetan Buddhism. was not unlike Lama Yeshe at all. It seemed like his intention was very much to be able to experience the sufferings and the so-called joys of Western life so that he could present the Dharma from our point of view. Report an error

1:45:31 Because sometimes there's a little disconnect. Even the great lamas, there's some kind of, we ask a question here and they answer here. you know so To me, that's the action of a great bodhisattva. Report an error

1:45:50 So, yeah, time for one more. Report an error

1:45:59 For me, it's very special to see you. I think of the way we're taught that the Buddha is the doctor and the Saṅgha. When I see you, I do see you as the nurse of the Buddha. Report an error

1:46:23 The last time I saw you was during the Relic Tour. You helped us out a lot here in San Francisco. I'm very grateful for that. Thank you. What's your name? Teresa. Hi, Teresa. And... Nurse George. I'll remember that. Pardon? Nurse George. Nurse George. That's good. That's good. Nurse Betty or whatever it is. Yeah, and I think of you often because one of the most powerful sutras in my own practice is the Diamond Cutter Sūtra. Report an error

1:46:52 And I am infinitely grateful for your translation. Thank you. Truly. Those who haven't read it, I highly recommend it. And in so many ways, you are a nurse and the effects are felt. Even when we don't see the Saṅgha around, there's an impact on the lives of those of us who are so fortunate to receive your... Report an error

1:47:21 Your deeds, the effects of your good deeds towards us. So thank you. I met you in 1990 in McLeod Ganj. We had coffee cake together. And what I remember thinking was that from my perspective, merely labeled my, you seem to be going through a really, really hard time at that time. Report an error

1:47:51 If you can recall, again, this is just my view. And I since then often think, well, you know, George can go through a really hard time and got over it. I certainly can. Of course I can. And I think also of the ways... Cultural differences of the ways in which Christians can talk about like St. John of the Cross, the dark night of the soul, for example. We have words for it, you know, not really depression. Report an error

1:48:20 It's just this really difficult traversing of an inner landscape that's very difficult. And so I wondered if you don't mind to address these kinds of difficult landscapes. That sometimes as Buddhists we come to and what that might have been like for you in the past, if you don't mind. Yeah, thanks Teresa. It's very completely appropriate to what we're saying, the transforming of adverse conditions in the past. Report an error

1:48:58 Sometimes, you know, garbage happens, when we use the four-letter word, you know, and the result of our past karma. The result of our collective karma that we experience in the world, different kinds of conditions, temptations or depression or different things happen. And I remember many times some of other Dharma monks and nuns, colleagues, so to speak, saying, it's amazing, sometimes people say to me, if I... Report an error

1:49:42 You're a nun. You can't get angry. You're not supposed to get angry. Excuse me. That would be the aim, but sometimes delusions arise. You're not supposed to have attachment as though you take ordination and suddenly attachment is gone. You've just made a decision. I will no longer become attached. You might think that. Report an error

1:50:07 but attachment is still there. Taking ordination or becoming a Buddhist doesn't mean you're already Buddha or that you're perfect. It means that you've taken on a lifestyle or practice. There is a book that I remember reading. It might have been someone at the course that we went to in India. A famous... Report an error

1:50:38 Christian, Western Christian psychologist who wrote a book called The Way Less Traveled or The Road Less Traveled. It was a classic at airports for decades. Scott Peck. And then he wrote another one. I remember I found the actual text itself very much couched in Christian terminology. It wasn't as useful. But the preliminary, the preface of it. Report an error

1:51:06 He was very, very Buddhist, I sense, that he was saying that he was, as a therapist, a Christian therapist, he encountered many people that had problems in their lives and they were, they wanted to find a, you know, it was almost like they wanted to be free of those problems. They shouldn't have had those problems. It's like, what's the song, I Never Promised You a Rose Garden, you know? Report an error

1:51:32 His conclusion after a lot of introspection and experience over years is that really the people, the real Christian way or spiritual way to deal with this is to recognize that life is a test. Life is to be practiced. And if everything goes well, maybe that's not the best of lives because you're not really tested. Report an error

1:52:02 You know, in the Buddhist tradition we take, we don't have a, generally we don't go by the solar calendar. In Tibet and India they didn't necessarily meet every Sunday or Saturday, as we necessarily have to do here because of our, the way that we do, you know. Report an error

1:52:19 We go by the lunar calendar and we, there are certain days that are considered more conducive for practice. For instance, full moon and new moon. And you know the... word lunatic comes from the word luna, which means moon and month, and it's the observation at the monasteries. It's considered more... week or the day of the month, when the monks start arguing in the debating courtyard, you know it's full moon or new moon. So it's on those days that, generally, it's considered more beneficial to take. Report an error

1:53:04 of the fact that it's like, you know, these swimming pools that you can, the rich people, maybe some of you have, where the water is, it's just a small pool, but you just swim in place because you're swimming against, and you have to use a lot of energy just to keep up. If you swim with the stream, you don't, you can go a long distance, but you don't use much energy. Report an error

1:53:23 If you swim against the stream, you build up a lot of muscle. It's said like that on the days when the mind is more predisposed to be loony, to go bananas. Report an error

1:53:37 If you take precepts on those days, you create more virtue because in order to keep your precepts, you have to exert more introspection and to be aware of the mind. Report an error

1:53:51 In the same sense, this can encourage us that... Like Scott Peck said, life is, who said life is for learning? Was that Bob Dylan? I can't remember. Report an error

1:54:05 That, you know, if you take anyone who has taken ordination or is a Dharma practitioner who admits to never having any difficulty, oh, it's perfect, oh, I've never had any problem, I would have some doubts about that person, their veracity. Who knows? There might be some people much, much better karma than I that are higher bodhisattvas. Even the higher bodhisattvas take the aspect of having problems to show us that problems are to be overcome. Report an error

1:54:38 Sometimes I think the reincarnations of lamas today that sometimes people have doubt about because they may give up the traditional thing. They seem to be attached to a girl or a boy or have some materialistic ideas. That's not necessarily what's really happening. Maybe they're showing us that even if you, you know, at our small level of practice of Dharma now, if these great Lamas seem to have those things, what about us in the future? Report an error

1:55:08 We better get, you know, sort of encouraging us to put effort in our practice and to be serious about our practice. So we can, in terms of encountering problems, just to think of... The contribution that we can make toward others in overcoming our problems, if we can overcome our problems, we can empathize with others, but we can teach others better how to overcome those problems. Report an error

1:55:45 So to stick with the practice, not just to give up immediately. There's always a dark night of the soul, I think, in the practice of everyone. And there's nothing to be ashamed or feel guilty about. I was talking with some psychologists the other day, a couple of psychologists about the concept of guilt. Report an error

1:56:11 We concretize things as though we're imperfect. But the imperfections in us can give us more energy to practice. Report an error

1:56:30 To recognize that rather than feeling it is a failing, think, well, I'm lucky to see that. I'm lucky now, while I'm still a beginner, to see I've got anger or irritation or attachment or laziness or pride or whatever. Because if I were to be oblivious of it now and then in some later time when I'm in a position of authority or admiration of others and exhibit these qualities, it would be a great disappointment to them. Report an error

1:57:01 I'm in training, when I'm just an ant, a gnat, that it's natural that these things come. Report an error

1:57:14 hear that saying, bring it on to the ego. I take that as we were calling the egos bluff of absolute power. that's how I'm hearing that also. Report an error

1:57:30 Let's, with your permission, did you have a question? Yeah, one last question then. Okay, then we'll do a little meditation to finish. you usually end about nine? Yeah, okay, we'll end. I'm not quite sure how to ask this question but I'll try. It's kind of just a personal thing that I'm trying to understand around and one side I hear this complete surrender to the guru, do only as the guru says and then also I hear a side of Analyzing on a personal level how a teaching is or something. And so I'm kind of struggling a little bit in that. Report an error

1:58:14 How do you relate? You can say something about relating to the surrender to the guru, or then how you interpret that or relate to it personally, like the Buddha wants you to test it. Report an error

1:58:30 The teachings about following the guru. are talking about having found the guru once you've actually discovered the guru and have verified to yourself that this is someone that you want to devote yourself to. Then these precepts make a lot of sense. Until you've found someone and checked them for a long period of time, it's like the American way, you know, saying that, oh, I... Report an error

1:59:08 I have a guru, you know, mail order guru or something, you know, and following them and without having experienced them, checked them and checked your own mind. And that kind of relationship is inappropriate to be following what they say. You don't know if they're a valid teacher or not. In the Buddhist teachings it said you should spend even 14 years, I don't know why I picked 14, but I think that's what it says, that to, even if it takes that long, you should check. Report an error

1:59:39 You shouldn't just jump in and just, you know, we always like to take initiations and empowerments and refuge immediately. In the monasteries, many, many monks didn't become bhikshus until they were 30 or 40. They would become novices until that time because they wanted to solidify, have pure motivation when they took higher ordination. Report an error

2:00:09 When you check the teacher, And you can check the qualities against the qualities that the Buddha advised the perfect teacher should have. Like in the, I think Mahāyāna Sūtra Alamkara and then quoted in many texts, the lamrim, there are ten qualities of the Mahāyāna Guru. The mind is restrained from the practice of ethics, say Vinaya, taking vows. Report an error

2:00:44 Their mind is tranquil because of practice of single-pointed concentration. Their mind is pacified because of the practice of wisdom. Report an error

2:00:55 So the three fundamentals of the path, renunciation, concentration. I would say the three higher trainings are more ethics, concentration and wisdom. And then they have compassion. They're expert in teaching and so forth. If you can find a teacher with all those qualities, and you watch for some time that your perceptions are not distorted, then that's someone that you can validly, with confidence, devote yourself to. Report an error

2:01:35 In this day and age, it's very difficult to find someone with even a fraction of those qualities, a fraction of those ten. so they say that Report an error

2:01:45 be someone who is not working for their own welfare alone but you know out of compassion for others who's teaching not just how to be successful now but how to find success in future lifetimes so at least teaching about karma you know and future lives Report an error

2:02:07 who is who has wisdom and so forth in any of those qualities Report an error

2:02:14 when you start to... Find teachers like that, then you have to be very careful and maybe even analyze what would happen if they suddenly took on some different aspects, like we were talking about different teachers that we may have studied with that then may exhibit some bizarre behavior later, going off with hanging out in the disco or today what they might have become a drug dealer or something like that. Report an error

2:02:42 In the old days it would be like something else. What would my mind do in that case? If your mind would still be able to see that as not destroying the basis for your realizations that you developed with them, but seeing that as maybe their bodhisattva activity, then that would be something you could devote yourself to. Report an error

2:03:04 But until you get to that point, maybe it's not necessary to devote yourself to the guru until you've found the guru. And the Buddha himself said you don't have to, you should really check, even if it takes decades. So there's no rush. Lama Yeshe, my teacher, first teacher Lama Yeshe said, you know, there's different ways of relating to the teacher. Report an error

2:03:30 Even if you see someone with better, more qualities than you, if you don't, and your mind is just sort of like so ego-oriented, you can't see them as Buddha. How could they be Buddha? They're Western, you know. Tibetans, they could be Buddha, but not Americans or whatever. But you see someone that has more qualities. Report an error

2:03:57 By seeing on the basis of that and following them, you can develop to that level that you imagine them to be. If you imagine them to be Buddha on the basis of following their advice wholeheartedly, you might be able to achieve Buddhahood. You know, whatever. Report an error

2:04:18 So it's to your advantage eventually to be able to see the teacher in a pure way as being an aspect, a manifestation of Buddha, someone who you can devote yourself to. But you still have to check. The Buddha himself said, yogis and scholars who follow me should not practice, should not accept what I say out of faith alone. Report an error

2:04:41 They should check my words as you check gold. Of course, today we don't. In India, that was talking about a time when you would check, nowadays we check cars, maybe you kick the tires, you take it out for a test ride, you ask your friend to check the odometer and things like that. So in the same way, because it's going to be something that will take you a long distance, you have to check the teachings. You don't just accept what the Buddha said out of faith alone. Report an error

2:05:12 He didn't say you shouldn't accept what I say. He said out of faith alone. The meaning is you should check what he said and come to single-pointed confidence in that and then implement it. Implement it, not just practice out of sort of blind faith. Report an error

2:05:35 It's said that if you view your teacher as perfect, you receive profound blessings. So for instance, if you believe your teacher is Jesus or the historical Buddha and you read their teachings, Or Moses, for that matter, or God through Moses or whatever. You think those are the great edicts and you follow those precisely. You receive great blessings to the mind, capacity to develop insights. Report an error

2:06:04 If you have a contemporary teacher who you follow very assiduously, you can develop quick blessings. If you see your contemporary teacher as enlightened, you receive both profound and quick blessings. That's kind of the essence of guru devotion. Why it's to your advantage to find a guru who you can devote to, because if you see them as Buddha and they're teaching you what you need to know right now, how to eat, how to brush your teeth, everything, then you're confident that following them, that is the right way to act, that you will receive both profound, deep... Report an error

2:06:55 Blessings and quick blessings to make rapid realization. So it's to our advantage to be able to eventually find that kind of teacher that we can devote to, but it's not something that you want to rush into because out of desire to find someone quickly you can misjudge and then later find the disaster of losing your faith or confidence in them. Report an error

2:07:22 When they act in some way that might seem inappropriate. So you have to find a balance. Let's do a little short meditation. Thank you. Let's do a little short meditation to dedicate the merits, the energy that we've created this evening. We're just a couple of minutes, six minutes after nine according to this clock. Report an error

2:07:44 So again, see if you can recreate the calm state of mind or if it was a calm state of mind at the beginning. Watch your breathing for a moment. Relax Report an error

2:08:01 your body. Bring Report an error

2:08:10 your attention to your mental consciousness. Report an error

2:08:18 Let go of the apprehension of the body. Whatever other thoughts in your mind, try to focus on the spaciousness of the mind within which those thoughts are arising rather than focusing on the thoughts themselves. I'm Report an error

2:08:53 thinking this evening, having motivated at the beginning with some semblance of an altruistic motivation to be listening. To the teachings, not just for my own benefit, for my own knowledge, but to find a method to achieve enlightenment for the welfare of others, simply on the basis of that, with concentration, with moments of faith or lucidity, I've created a vast store of virtuous karma this evening. Report an error

2:09:31 That karma may ripen in many ways in the future, somewhere within cyclic existence as contaminated happiness perhaps, or I can dedicate that merit in such a way that it will become the cause of my Dharma realizations, both now and in the future. Report an error

2:09:55 Due to these merits, may I be now and in the future confident of the Dharma, have faith. May I put energy into listening to the teachings, seeking those teachings, contemplating them and familiarizing with them, meditating on them, all the time balancing my motivation for doing so, not simply for recognition now, ego gratification, financial gain and so forth or the Report an error

2:10:37 respect of others, but for the purpose, dual purpose of my own and others' welfare. My own welfare to overcome my delusions, to find real, substantial, everlasting happiness. The Report an error

2:10:58 welfare of others to manifest for their benefit. Nirmanakaya, the rupakaya, the form bodies of the Buddha. Report an error

2:11:10 Due to these merits, may I quickly achieve the realizations of renunciation, altruistic mind of bodhicitta, wisdom that realizes emptiness. Report an error

2:11:25 May I have the fortune soon to meet the esoteric tantric path that can lead to the ability to achieve enlightenment even in the short lifetime of this degenerate age. Report an error

2:11:41 May I become, as a result of these merits, a really qualified human being, a noble being to exemplify the Dharma. I Report an error

2:12:03 think to seal... This dedication in the emptiness of the three spheres, the merits that I've created, that I conceive of as having some kind of inherent true existence, are dependent arisings. They will have a result in the future, but they are devoid of any findable existence that my mind conceives of. Report an error

2:12:37 goal that I dedicate to my own achievement of the spiritual path, realizations for the welfare of others, Report an error

2:12:46 Can come about as a dependent arising, but it doesn't exist as my mind conceives of as findable and solid, inherently existent. The act of dedication, trying to join these merits to that, those goals, also is a dependent arising. It is devoid of inherent existence. Bring Report an error

2:13:33 your attention back to the present. Thank Report an error

2:13:39 you very much. Pleasure seeing you. Good luck in your Dharma practice. Report an error

2:14:09 Hope to see you all again soon. Report an error

2:14:18 What's everyone up to tonight? Baseball's over, right? Report an error

· · ·

2:15:10 He's the 50 verses on career devotion. Report an error

2:15:16 Wednesday, he teaches Shantideva. He puts up his website for anyone. several new faces. Report an error

2:15:36 Thank you. Sarah, when he was about nine and a half and ten. Report an error

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Talk by George Churinoff, recorded 6 November 2010. Original at Tse Chen Ling Center for Tibetan Buddhist Studies via Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/GC_DharmaInTheWest_20101106. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 3.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.

Recorded at Tse Chen Ling Center, San Francisco, and archived by the center on Internet Archive. More from Tse Chen Ling

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