Three Principles of the Path - Ven. Steve Carlier (8 May 2007)

0:01 And before doing that, we can spend a little time meditating to sort of set the scene for those words, think about the meaning of refuge and bodhicitta before reciting the words. Generally speaking, when you have a prayer like this, words to recite, as they usually say, the words are to help you. Report an error in the passage at 0:01 Highlight the passage at 0:01

0:30 We recite the words in order to recollect the meaning behind those words. So it sort of implies that when you're reciting those words you already have some kind of experience of what they're talking about and so the words are reminding you of that experience. Report an error in the passage at 0:30 Highlight the passage at 0:30

0:52 So then what happens is quite often you sort of recite those words and you can't really think about what they mean. at the at the moment at the moment you're reciting them we spend first of all a few minutes thinking about the meaning of these words and then recite we'll go through the three recitations gradually in that way Report an error in the passage at 0:52 Highlight the passage at 0:52

1:19 So, when we talk about going for refuge, Report an error in the passage at 1:19 Highlight the passage at 1:19

1:29 it implies having some problem that you're going for refuge in order to solve. Report an error in the passage at 1:29 Highlight the passage at 1:29

1:42 So, we can look at the problems that we're... I'm trying to solve going for refuge in different ways, but to begin with here, try to think about the Report an error in the passage at 1:42 Highlight the passage at 1:42

1:56 nature of psychic existence and all of the difficulties and all of the suffering that we have to experience as long as we're in psychic existence. Psychic existence means going from life to life. So at the end of this life, instead of just becoming totally non-existent, our mind going on, taking us on to some. Report an error in the passage at 1:56 Highlight the passage at 1:56

2:22 New existence, new kind of life, but without really having any choice in the sense that we can't just think to ourselves, well, now I'm going to go over here. I think I'll be born in this realm or in that realm, in this world or that world. It all happens in a way which is controlled by karma, our own previous actions. Report an error in the passage at 2:22 Highlight the passage at 2:22

2:51 So in this life and in... Countless past lives in psychic existence. We've engaged in so many actions, done so many things, created so much karma and each time we create karma it leaves the potential to experience some kind of result in the future depending upon the kind of action it was. Simply speaking, good actions leading to happiness, non-virtuous actions, destructive actions leading to suffering. Report an error in the passage at 2:51 Highlight the passage at 2:51

3:29 Saṃsāra means going from life to life repeatedly under the control of karma and the mental afflictions which motivate us to create karma in the sense that when anger and attachment and so on arise in our minds then this makes us do things which are selfish and hurtful to others and which rebound to us. Report an error in the passage at 3:29 Highlight the passage at 3:29

4:02 We will rebound against us in the future, causing us to experience suffering and to create more suffering. Report an error in the passage at 4:02 Highlight the passage at 4:02

4:13 And so going from life to life, again and again having to be born, again and again having to experience illness, again and again having to get old and die, and in the meantime having to experience so much suffering, the suffering and pain of not being able to get what we want. Report an error in the passage at 4:13 Highlight the passage at 4:13

4:37 The suffering and the pain and the disappointment of not being able to hold on to what we get, eventually having to be separated from it. Again and again the suffering of having to experience the pain of illness and so forth, the pain of poverty. Report an error in the passage at 4:37 Highlight the passage at 4:37

5:05 So think about the nature of psychic existence in that way, going from life to life and experiencing. An unending stream of suffering and problems. Report an error in the passage at 5:05 Highlight the passage at 5:05

· · · silence, 2 minutes

7:29 So the Tibetans use it, well maybe not just the Tibetans anyway, there's a sort of ancient example or analogy for psychic existence, they say saṃsāra is like an ocean. Report an error in the passage at 7:29 Highlight the passage at 7:29

7:45 I don't know if sometimes when you think of the ocean it makes you think of swimming and surfing and sailing. So it maybe doesn't give a very unpleasant... It maybe doesn't have a very unpleasant connotation. But if you think of the example that Lama Zopa gives, which Venerable Rubini reminded us of last week, saṃsāra being like a cesspit. Report an error in the passage at 7:45 Highlight the passage at 7:45

8:15 So just think of, you know, psychic existence is just like a cesspit. And if you were in a cesspit, then you wouldn't for one moment want to, you wouldn't want to remain in that situation one second longer. You would be totally focused. Your whole mind, your whole being would be totally focused on just getting out of there. So Report an error in the passage at 8:15 Highlight the passage at 8:15

8:41 with that sense of really wanting to, being one-pointedly, totally focused on just getting out of sight existence, then how are we going to get out of sight existence? We need help. There is a way out, but we need help. We can't just work it out for ourselves. We need somebody who's already become free of that kind of situation. Report an error in the passage at 8:41 Highlight the passage at 8:41

9:05 So the Buddha is somebody who has been able to awaken their mind to the true nature of reality and in this way has gone beyond that suffering. And then the Dharma, their teaching on how to, the path that the enlightened being teaches that explains the way, which is the way in order to gain that freedom. Report an error in the passage at 9:05 Highlight the passage at 9:05

9:32 The Saṅgha, the spiritual community of those who are... Report an error in the passage at 9:32 Highlight the passage at 9:32

9:38 Who understand how to practice and who don't just understand but are actually practicing, not just talking about it, but actually practicing and therefore are vital in our practice because quite often you hear teachings but you don't really know how to put it into practice in your daily life. So if you look at the spiritual community you see how people who are really practicing put the Buddhist teachings into their daily life. Report an error in the passage at 9:38 Highlight the passage at 9:38

10:06 So with that feeling of wanting to be, of being... Totally, your whole body and mind, your whole spirit, being totally focused on wanting nothing but to be free of that suffering. Then we go for refuge to the Buddha Dharma and Saṅgha and we'll recite these words. Report an error in the passage at 10:06 Highlight the passage at 10:06

10:31 SANGYI JIDANG SOYGI CHO NAM LAJANGJU BANDU DAIN NI KYAL SU CHE DAI GE JIN SOYGI BE SO NAM GYI RALA PHENJI SANGY TRUPA Satsang with I go for refuge until I am enlightened to the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly. By my practice of giving and other perfections, may I become a Buddha to benefit all sentient beings. Report an error in the passage at 10:31 Highlight the passage at 10:31

11:15 So Report an error in the passage at 11:15 Highlight the passage at 11:15

11:29 when you go for refuge it's like you're seeking help and so it's usually considered important that when you go for refuge that you're aware that the Buddha and the Dharma and the Saṅgha, the three jewels, gladly accept to help you and to answer your request for help. Report an error in the passage at 11:29 Highlight the passage at 11:29

11:57 So then second time through we can emphasize the practice of... The bodhicitta and compassion. So now it sounds very nice and it sounds very convincing to talk about compassion, which means not just thinking about yourself but thinking of others. Report an error in the passage at 11:57 Highlight the passage at 11:57

12:24 We can relate to just thinking of oneself as being selfish, unworthy, thinking of others, being concerned for others, being dedicated to being of benefit to others. This seems to be so right. Report an error in the passage at 12:24 Highlight the passage at 12:24

12:43 Just imagine actually, now just imagine right at this moment you're actually in that cesspit. Just imagine you're actually in one right now. Now Report an error in the passage at 12:43 Highlight the passage at 12:43

12:57 how do you feel? Do you feel like kind of splashing around a bit? Do you feel like, what do they call it, floating? Floating, just floating there. Do you feel like getting out? Just imagine you're actually in there now. Report an error in the passage at 12:57 Highlight the passage at 12:57

13:27 So now just imagine, okay. This is a huge cesspit, right? Not just a small one. This is a huge one. Even if you could reach the sides, you wouldn't be able to scramble out. But anyway, it's just huge. You're in this middle of this huge cesspit. And now you're surrounded by so many other people who are in exactly the same position. Report an error in the passage at 13:27 Highlight the passage at 13:27

13:51 Now, seriously, how easy would you find it to think of them? Report an error in the passage at 13:51 Highlight the passage at 13:51

14:10 The suffering of that situation is going to be so overwhelming. How could you possibly think of others? How can one possibly think of anybody except oneself? Report an error in the passage at 14:10 Highlight the passage at 14:10

14:22 And yet that's the nature of great compassion. Aware of the awfulness of one's own situation and yet still being totally dedicated to benefiting others and actually putting others even before oneself. You know, wanting to get them out of this terrible place, even before yourself. That's how amazing great compassion is. Report an error in the passage at 14:22 Highlight the passage at 14:22

14:56 And this is what we're trying to train our minds in when we talk about training and great compassion. Report an error in the passage at 14:56 Highlight the passage at 14:56

· · · silence, 1 minute

15:46 So then just spend a few minutes thinking about that, that I myself am stuck in this awful situation which we call saṃsāra, but also there are just so many others. Report an error in the passage at 15:46 Highlight the passage at 15:46

16:04 And even without having to talk of their kindness and how they've been our mother encounter's lives, just the very fact that they, like ourselves, can't bear to suffer and yet have to suffer so much. And they, like ourselves, want to be happy, want as much happiness as possible, want it to last for as long as possible and yet have so little happiness. Report an error in the passage at 16:04 Highlight the passage at 16:04

16:35 And Report an error in the passage at 16:35 Highlight the passage at 16:35

16:41 then make up your mind. Try to make up your mind, I myself, rather than just wanting them to be free of suffering and to be happy, I myself am going to do everything I can always, everything within my means, to bring them happiness, real happiness and to help them become free of suffering. Report an error in the passage at 16:41 Highlight the passage at 16:41

· · · silence, 2 minutes

18:52 What they call unbearable compassion, passion where you find the suffering of others unbearable. You can't just leave others to suffer, you've got to do something yourself. Then knowing that... Our present ability to be of benefit to others is so limited. Then try to make the decision to achieve enlightenment, where enlightenment means at least Report an error in the passage at 18:52 Highlight the passage at 18:52

19:26 improving oneself. The awareness, in other words, that we need enlightenment, at least in the sense of being aware that the wiser we are, the more qualities of compassion and love and so on that we have ourselves. The more we're going to be of benefit to others, the more we're going to be able to fulfill that responsibility that we take upon ourselves when we make up our minds, I must do something for others, I will do, I will benefit others, I will free them from their suffering and so on. Report an error in the passage at 19:26 Highlight the passage at 19:26

· · · silence, 1 minute

21:11 So with this decision actually life becomes very, very simple because now there are just two things to do and only two things. One is to be of benefit to others. Report an error in the passage at 21:11 Highlight the passage at 21:11

21:23 And one is to make oneself more beneficial for others, to help others and to improve one's ability to help. That's all there is. Report an error in the passage at 21:23 Highlight the passage at 21:23

21:44 Now in order to do that, again we need help of somebody who's already done it themselves. So again, we go for refuge to the Buddha and Saṅgha. Report an error in the passage at 21:44 Highlight the passage at 21:44

21:59 SANGYI JA DANG SOGYI CHA NAM LA CANJU BADHU TAN NI GYASU CHE DAGYI JINZO GYI BHAI CHA NAM GYI DRA LA PHENGYI SANGYI CHA BHAI SHO I go for refuge until I am enlightened to the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly by my practice of giving and other perfections. May I become a Buddha to benefit all sentient beings and Report an error in the passage at 21:59 Highlight the passage at 21:59

23:01 again be aware of the Three Jewels happily accepting our request for help. So they often say that of course the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and so on and our teachers are always fond of us. Report an error in the passage at 23:01 Highlight the passage at 23:01

23:27 They're so full of love and compassion they're fond of. for all sentient beings, but they're not always pleased with us. if we create nothing but negative karma, then they're not going to be pleased with us. But if we do something worthwhile, something constructive, something which is at least going to bring happiness to ourselves, especially if it's going to bring to others, like in the case of the decision to achieve enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings, then they're going to So with that awareness of the... Report an error in the passage at 23:27 Highlight the passage at 23:27

24:02 Three jewels were inseparable from one spiritual teacher being extremely pleased with us. Report an error in the passage at 24:02 Highlight the passage at 24:02

· · · silence, 2 minutes

26:24 Going for refuge, we go for refuge to the Buddha, Dharma and Saṅgha. And as they say, although the main object of refuge is the Buddha, what acts as the actual refuge, what actually protects us, what actually helps us to overcome our problems Report an error in the passage at 26:24 Highlight the passage at 26:24

26:50 is the Dharma jewel. Dharma, object of refuge, Dharma refuge object. And the Dharma refuge object, although in general it refers to the teachings of the Buddha, especially it means the experience of those teachings. And especially, above all, it means the non-conceptual, deep experience of the true nature of reality or of emptiness, of selflessness. Report an error in the passage at 26:50 Highlight the passage at 26:50

27:23 So now... Report an error in the passage at 27:23 Highlight the passage at 27:23

27:30 Rather than thinking of that simply as being something which is theoretically true or something which is distant, again here it would be good to combine our practice of refuge at this point where we're trying to develop a good motivational Kunlong developer, the most constructive approach to what we're doing this evening. Report an error in the passage at 27:30 Highlight the passage at 27:30

27:56 It's good to combine all this with an awareness of... Emptiness, especially when you consider that Lama Zopa so clearly explains our Report an error in the passage at 27:56 Highlight the passage at 27:56

28:14 misunderstanding and confusion about the nature of reality feeds and fuels our other mental afflictions like anger, like jealousy, grasping attachment and so on. And as long as what we do is governed by... those of mind, then all we're going to be doing the time is but create more suffering for ourselves and others. Report an error in the passage at 28:14 Highlight the passage at 28:14

28:52 And as long as one can maintain some kind of awareness of the real nature of ourselves and the world we live in, Report an error in the passage at 28:52 Highlight the passage at 28:52

29:09 then as long as... There is that awareness as long as there is that mindfulness then one would not be creating more karma, more actions, engaging more actions that are going to bring about nothing but suffering. Report an error in the passage at 29:09 Highlight the passage at 29:09

29:31 So in this way we are actively cutting through the causes of psychic existence and the causes of suffering for Report an error in the passage at 29:31 Highlight the passage at 29:31

29:53 our meditation and then also later on for the further discussion during the evening. Report an error in the passage at 29:53 Highlight the passage at 29:53

30:01 I'll start by mentioning the way that Lama Zopa describes this. He often says, first of all, objects appear to us. Object can be some other person, some external object, inanimate object, our own body, our own mind. Anyway, whatever is appearing to us. Report an error in the passage at 30:01 Highlight the passage at 30:01

30:30 So anything can appear to us, whatever it is, when something appears to us, then we label on it. So first the thing appears to us, and then we label on it. Report an error in the passage at 30:30 Highlight the passage at 30:30

30:41 And then, that's the second step. First step is the thing appears. Second step, we impute some label on it, we label onto it. Then the thing, third step is the thing appears to have that quality or whatever it is that we've imputed onto it. From its own side. It's like in between times we forget that we labeled anything onto it. What we label onto it, it seems to have from its own side. Report an error in the passage at 30:41 Highlight the passage at 30:41

31:13 And we believe that appearance. So we grasp that object as existing from its own side. We grasp that object as having the quality that in fact we ourselves imputed on it or labeled on it from its own side, independent of us having labeled on it. Report an error in the passage at 31:13 Highlight the passage at 31:13

31:31 So meditating on emptiness. In this way means being aware that things appear to us as if they were something other than being merely labelled by our own minds. In actual fact, we label, a thing appears to have that quality from its own side, then we believe it has that quality from its own side, but if we were to look for that quality within the object, we wouldn't be able to find it. Report an error in the passage at 31:31 Highlight the passage at 31:31

32:01 Why? Because it's something that we impute from our side onto it. It doesn't have that quality from its own sight. So nevertheless things appear to have those qualities from their own sight. They appear to exist from their own sight. So meditating on emptiness means being aware that things don't exist as they appear. Report an error in the passage at 32:01 Highlight the passage at 32:01

32:27 They appear to be something more than just merely labelled by our own minds. They appear to have some more solid and concrete and substantial existence. They appear to be more than just merely labelled. So meditating on emptiness means being aware that that appearance is totally false. Report an error in the passage at 32:27 Highlight the passage at 32:27

32:51 So try to spend some moments in the awareness that things appear to be more than merely labelled, but that such a thing is totally non-existent. Report an error in the passage at 32:51 Highlight the passage at 32:51

33:08 So like everything which is appearing to us is like a complete hallucination. Nothing exists at all as it seems to because everything seems to be more than merely labelled and Report an error in the passage at 33:08 Highlight the passage at 33:08

33:26 that's completely false. Everything that's appearing to your mind now, every sound you hear, everything you feel through your body, everything you see through your eyes. Report an error in the passage at 33:26 Highlight the passage at 33:26

33:42 I guess most of us are sitting with our eyes closed. Actually, when you meditate, you're supposed to keep your eyes open, aren't you? Report an error in the passage at 33:42 Highlight the passage at 33:42

33:53 I know I was sitting there with my eyes closed anyway. Everything you can see with your eyes, Report an error in the passage at 33:53 Highlight the passage at 33:53

34:01 everything you can hear, everything that's appearing to your mind as different thoughts come and go, all of that is totally non-existent as it appears, Report an error in the passage at 34:01 Highlight the passage at 34:01

34:19 like a dream or like an illusion, like a total hallucination. Report an error in the passage at 34:19 Highlight the passage at 34:19

· · · silence, 1 minute

35:39 So you can focus your mind on anything you like and just ask yourself the question, does this thing seem to be... Merely labelled, totally non-existent from its own side. If I think of myself, if I think of things that I can see and hear, anything. Does it seem like that, to be merely labelled? So the slightest appearance of even slightly existing from its own side without being merely labelled, that's to be negated. Report an error in the passage at 35:39 Highlight the passage at 35:39

36:11 That's to think in your mind, no, it's not like that. The actual reality of things is something other than that. Report an error in the passage at 36:11 Highlight the passage at 36:11

· · · silence, 2 minutes

38:08 So with that awareness of oneself, the objects we are going to refuse to and so on, everything, every element of this act of going for refuge being completely empty of existing as it appears and so forth, as I was saying, we can recite these words again. Report an error in the passage at 38:08 Highlight the passage at 38:08

38:30 SANG GI CHEDAM SOI GI CHO NAM LA CHANG GI BATTA DAIN NI KIABSU CHE DAI GI JIN SOI GI VI SO NAM GI LA PHIN GI SANG GI CHO BAH I go for refuge until I am enlightened to the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly by my practice of giving and other perfections. May I become a Buddha to benefit all sentient beings. Report an error in the passage at 38:30 Highlight the passage at 38:30

39:28 And then imagine as a result of these requests and as a result of thinking in this way, going for refuge in this way, that from the heart of the Buddha countless rays of light emanate, as many as there are sentient beings. Report an error in the passage at 39:28 Highlight the passage at 39:28

39:50 So those rays of light go out to each sentient being, including oneself, and purifies all obscurations. All suffering, all the causes of suffering, and each and every single sentient being achieves enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 39:50 Highlight the passage at 39:50

· · · silence, 1 minute

40:47 I try to feel very happy that this has happened, that all sentient beings have now become completely free, definitively of all suffering, Report an error in the passage at 40:47 Highlight the passage at 40:47

41:02 achieve the perfect happiness, the highest happiness, the greatest happiness of complete enlightenment, and that this is all due to one's own practice. At Report an error in the passage at 41:02 Highlight the passage at 41:02

· · · silence, 2 minutes

43:31 the end of last week, did I ask? to think about dependent arising as much as possible. I did, didn't I? wasn't somewhere else. Well, Report an error in the passage at 43:31 Highlight the passage at 43:31

44:00 I can't remember exactly where I was, I heard the advice, but this is kind of advice, but... anybody actually do that? No fibs? Report an error in the passage at 44:00 Highlight the passage at 44:00

43:48 at least yeah very clever that's why i tried to do that as well so you can say at least yeah well i tried yeah everybody do it yeah i did it once Report an error in the passage at 43:48 Highlight the passage at 43:48

44:07 It seems, it kind of makes sense anyway, that the more you meditate on dependent origination, the more you familiarise yourself with the fact that everything is a dependent, dependent arising, right? Dependent arising. I feel as Report an error in the passage at 44:07 Highlight the passage at 44:07

44:38 if Rabina will be on the phone any moment. Just send an email. What do you say that for? The Report an error in the passage at 44:38 Highlight the passage at 44:38

44:52 more we familiarise ourselves with the fact that everything is dependent arising, in whatever way that might be, the clearer it will be to us that that's not how things appear. Report an error in the passage at 44:52 Highlight the passage at 44:52

45:11 So when we talk about emptiness, something is being negative, right? There is something being negative. I mean, even the word emptiness, even though we don't... We formally put it that way in our minds usually. Negating is something we're doing all the time actually, isn't it? So when you say empty, when you say something's empty, you're negating something. That's actually what you're doing, isn't it? You talk about glass being empty, you're negating the existence of some kind of drink in there, not air probably, but something to drink inside the glass. Report an error in the passage at 45:11 Highlight the passage at 45:11

45:49 So anyway. Report an error in the passage at 45:49 Highlight the passage at 45:49

45:57 I keep leaning back against this and I Report an error in the passage at 45:57 Highlight the passage at 45:57

46:04 suppose I am. Report an error in the passage at 46:04 Highlight the passage at 46:04

46:09 So one way of describing emptiness is it's the lack of independent existence. Things appear to be independent whereas in fact they're dependent. So emptiness is their lack of independence. So now it's very important when meditating on emptiness. Not to just leave it as a sort of an idea, you know, okay, everything is dependent, so therefore everything is empty of independence. Report an error in the passage at 46:09 Highlight the passage at 46:09

46:42 That's very easy, isn't it? I mean, I don't think anybody's going to have any trouble with thinking that everything is dependent in some way or other. Although interestingly, many people do have, you know, at least one thing that they find it's unacceptable to think of as being independent. Report an error in the passage at 46:42 Highlight the passage at 46:42

47:06 Some people say, you mean even Buddha? People say that. Maybe that's not something that anybody here would think, but like everything but the mind. Because we have a tendency to think, it just shows up our tendency to think empty means kind of non-existent. So you can imagine everything else being non-existent, but the mind can't be non-existent because how would there be anything that's aware of there being? Report an error in the passage at 47:06 Highlight the passage at 47:06

47:36 Nothing else being non-existent kind of thing, you know. Anyway, people do get funny ideas. We all get funny ideas, don't we? So, the fact that everything is dependent is quite easy to see. So, at the same time then, it's going to be easy to see that everything is empty. If empty just means not independent, well, we know everything is dependent, so therefore we know everything is empty. Report an error in the passage at 47:36 Highlight the passage at 47:36

48:05 End of story. But it's actually not as simple as that. What's really important is that even though everything is dependent and everything is therefore empty, that's not how things seem to us. Things seem as if they're independent, like that meditation we were just doing. Actually, everything depends upon labeling our own projection onto them. Report an error in the passage at 48:05 Highlight the passage at 48:05

48:39 But that's not how things seem. It seems that according to the prasanghika view of emptiness, which is taken to be the pinnacle, the ultimate line Report an error in the passage at 48:39 Highlight the passage at 48:39

48:57 or the ultimate description of the way things really are, everything is merely imputed by the mind. Everything is imputation by the mind. Our mind imputes onto objects. Or project certain qualities and names and so on onto objects. And then, despite that, they don't seem as if that's how they are. In other words, they seem to have what we impute on them from their own side. Report an error in the passage at 48:57 Highlight the passage at 48:57

49:37 And, you know, the conclusion that this system, the Prasenkin system, comes to is everything is mere imputation by the mind. Report an error in the passage at 49:37 Highlight the passage at 49:37

49:50 you will, whenever you look for... Report an error in the passage at 49:50 Highlight the passage at 49:50

49:57 The quality that you've imputed within the object itself, you won't find it. Why? Because it's just something that your mind has imputed on, so no wonder you wouldn't be able to find it. And yet that's not how it seems. It seems as if things all seem to us as if they have those qualities from their own side. Report an error in the passage at 49:57 Highlight the passage at 49:57

50:19 So they seem to have those qualities from their own side. Then we believe in that appearance. It's not just that they seem that way, we actually believe that it's that way. Because those two don't always go hand in hand, do they? I mean, something can seem one way, but you know it's not like that. Well, they're the standard examples of the appearance of a moon in the water. Report an error in the passage at 50:19 Highlight the passage at 50:19

50:40 You know, there's that reflection of the moon in the water. And in fact, it's so long since we learned that the reflection of the moon isn't the moon that you almost lose any sense of there being any kind of connection that it would be... And yet they say, you know, children can think that it's really like that. Actually, I'll tell you what. It's also like that with mirror reflections in a mirror, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 50:40 Highlight the passage at 50:40

51:14 Okay, so, I mean, has anybody been tricked by a mirror? Report an error in the passage at 51:14 Highlight the passage at 51:14

51:24 I can remember one particular example where I was walking through this shop with my mother and I turned around and I thought I saw my uncle, actually. It was my own reflection. So it was like these pillars in... Report an error in the passage at 51:24 Highlight the passage at 51:24

51:40 These pillars, you know, that you get in some shops where they have a mirror on each of the sides. So not being aware that it was a pillar with mirrors around, I just turned around and that's what it was. So the thing is, in actual fact, they usually say little children can be fooled by reflections, right? Report an error in the passage at 51:40 Highlight the passage at 51:40

52:01 And they go to grasp. So I was about to turn around and say, what are you doing here? Actually, that's what I thought. What's my uncle doing here? Report an error in the passage at 52:01 Highlight the passage at 52:01

52:12 And that can happen, can't it? It's not just in sort of, I don't know, TV programmes. I'm sure I've seen these, usually some kind of dream experience where a person is surrounded by mirrors and they don't know which is the real one. Report an error in the passage at 52:12 Highlight the passage at 52:12

52:29 But you can imagine, can't you? Now, if you were in some kind of room where there was all these mirrors around, but there's the real person and then the rest of them are reflections, I mean, how would you know? So you'd be looking at each of them and thinking, oh, maybe this is the real person. So you can be fooled. You can be fooled. So anyway, we do know that it's possible for something to appear in a certain way to our mind and to know that it's not like that. Report an error in the passage at 52:29 Highlight the passage at 52:29

52:57 That's a fact, isn't it? It is possible for us to be aware on some level or another of a discrepancy between the way things appear and the way they really are. Report an error in the passage at 52:57 Highlight the passage at 52:57

53:11 um... Like that with the practice of emptiness, we talk about things appearing to exist from their own side, but things don't exist as they appear. Despite the fact that they don't actually exist as they appear to, we believe that they do. So this would be like that moment when you turn around and you see a reflection and you think it's a person. Report an error in the passage at 53:11 Highlight the passage at 53:11

53:41 You think it's a person. Or what else? I mean, what other example would there be of some, you know, situation where your senses are fooled? Sorry? Report an error in the passage at 53:41 Highlight the passage at 53:41

53:54 An echo. Yeah. Does that work for you? Because if I think of an echo, I mean, usually with an echo, you sort of like, you kind of know that it's your voice coming back to you. Report an error in the passage at 53:54 Highlight the passage at 53:54

54:06 Yeah? Report an error in the passage at 54:06 Highlight the passage at 54:06

54:17 Okay, anybody else got an idea about, you know, where your senses are fooled? Yeah? I remember my niece when she was about 18 months and we were holding her and we went outside and we said, oh, look at the moon. And she said, there's another one. And she just saw a street light and she thought it was the moon. And she was completely convinced it was. But of course for us to have somebody say, oh, and there's another one, you don't have two moons. Report an error in the passage at 54:17 Highlight the passage at 54:17

54:45 It was like we all laughed and everything, but she really thought it was. Not on this planet. Report an error in the passage at 54:45 Highlight the passage at 54:45

54:55 Of course there are all sorts of visual illusions. Anybody been to the Taj Mahal? There are some built-in visual illusions there, aren't there? That one part of it is where they've sloped the wall and increased the size of the letters so that the letters as you're going down look the same size, whereas in fact, of course, the ones that are further away are bigger. Report an error in the passage at 54:55 Highlight the passage at 54:55

55:30 So Report an error in the passage at 55:30 Highlight the passage at 55:30

55:33 things appearing to exist from their own side in the sense of not being simple rejections. labeled by our own mind. Report an error in the passage at 55:33 Highlight the passage at 55:33

55:47 appear that they're not that they don't need that's not how they are, but that's how they seem and then we believe we're fooled The next step is not so easy to take. The next step in theory, as far as the theory is concerned, is as long as we have that kind of belief in the appearance of things existing from our own side, that's going to fuel our attachment and our anger. Report an error in the passage at 55:47 Highlight the passage at 55:47

56:17 So the simplest way of proving, Report an error in the passage at 56:17 Highlight the passage at 56:17

56:33 showing that link, or describing how that link comes about, is if you can think how it is that when you feel angry, the more angry you feel, the stronger you... The stronger is your sense of me, the me that's been offended, the me that's been harmed. Report an error in the passage at 56:33 Highlight the passage at 56:33

57:05 Is that true or not? Or is that something I've just fooled myself of? It's the truth over the years. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 57:05 Highlight the passage at 57:05

57:16 So it's a question of sort of taking stock of the difference of what's happening in your mind and somehow your view of yourself when you're feeling relaxed. And open and friendly and so on. And then how somehow your image of yourself in very highly charged emotional situations. So there's a strong sense of me, isn't there? So then the question would be, if I didn't have that strong sense of me, if that were suddenly to be taken out of the situation, What would happen to the anger? What would happen to the... It's really difficult to see how those things can function without the strong sense of me. Report an error in the passage at 57:16 Highlight the passage at 57:16

58:17 It's difficult to see how they could, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 58:17 Highlight the passage at 58:17

58:22 So the fact that it's difficult to see how they could work without that strong sense of me, because in fact they can't work without that strong sense of me. So then you start getting, then that's when you start getting, I think, the insight into how it is that at least, okay, for the first step we can take is that strong sense of me is the source of the problem, of our mental afflictions, right? Report an error in the passage at 58:22 Highlight the passage at 58:22

58:53 Now, is that strong sense of me got anything to do with this belief in the appearance of things existing from their own side, independent of anything? Particularly independent of labelling. You're seeing yourself as existing very independently. Report an error in the passage at 58:53 Highlight the passage at 58:53

59:16 I mean, how do you make that conclusion? You must have thought about that. Report an error in the passage at 59:16 Highlight the passage at 59:16

59:23 Tell us how you got to that conclusion. Report an error in the passage at 59:23 Highlight the passage at 59:23

59:32 Actually, I think Rinpoche has a start with looking for the eye, right? I think often he does. He's never had me looking for the eye. Yeah. He must have been on different meditation courses. Kopan. Kopan, okay. Kopan versus Sarah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, often that's what he'll start with, I think probably because, I don't know why. Report an error in the passage at 59:32 Highlight the passage at 59:32

59:52 Actually, I don't know the reason why. But, yeah, when you watch that eye and you see, like you said, when it gets strong and really strong charged, kind of emotionally charged times of anger, defensiveness or fear. Report an error in the passage at 59:52 Highlight the passage at 59:52

1:00:09 It's easy to see how it gets stronger the more emotional you are and how it gets weaker like you were just describing. But I don't know, yeah, it's just through thinking about it. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:09 Highlight the passage at 1:00:09

1:00:23 One thing that, one distinction I think we need to make just as, you know, I mean, in terms of when I think of the terms that we're using to describe what's going on here, when we talk about a strong sense of I, Report an error in the passage at 1:00:23 Highlight the passage at 1:00:23

1:00:40 This is nothing to do with, I don't know what the proper terms are for this, but what I think might be described as a well-developed sense of self, which is something that's very positive. So I'm using the words a strong sense of I. I think probably you'll know what I mean anyway. It's when you're thinking to yourself, I, I've been insulted. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:40 Highlight the passage at 1:00:40

1:01:11 I didn't do that. That kind of, and then, so what goes, what goes on, you know, I mean, what goes on physically, for example, just to see if, you know, I don't know, because I've got my own ideas, but then I don't want to just sort of, you know, you get flushed. That's with the anger. That's with the anger. Now, that's okay. So that feeling flushed might be something more to do with the anger, because remember, according to this. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:11 Highlight the passage at 1:01:11

1:01:40 Or embarrassment. Or embarrassment. Because the thing is, okay, we're not talking about just how things work with anger. Also, very strong feelings of attachment, grasping attachment, maybe strong feeling of desire. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:40 Highlight the passage at 1:01:40

1:01:57 Yeah, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:57 Highlight the passage at 1:01:57

1:02:07 Downloading the I. Downloading the I. I wish we could delete it. Delete it. But I think it manifests physically that way. And that you get, whenever I feel that I happening, I notice I get a tightness physically in my stomach. Your blood pressure increases a bit, especially when it's in a situation where you feel threatened. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:07 Highlight the passage at 1:02:07

1:02:34 So the eye is really coming up. Because I'm now getting the question coming up in my mind, okay, I can sort of relate to anger, jealousy, defensiveness, those ones with a tightening of the, you know. But does it also happen with desire? Absolutely, even more so. Yeah, it's in the heart, there's like a tightening. The heartbeat, yeah, that's the sort of, yeah. And in the mind too, I think your mind gets more agitated because you're wanting it so badly that it becomes, you become a bit more agitated about wanting it. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:34 Highlight the passage at 1:02:34

1:03:14 But when you were talking about, when you were talking about the, I noticed that when people, By disarming your eye, it sort of loses a lot of times. It helps to disarm the victim mentality that seems kind of prevalent in America. Like somebody's doing that to me. When I start to get that feeling now, I think, oh, they're not really doing anything. I'm just perceiving it because they're not really trying to do that. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:14 Highlight the passage at 1:03:14

1:03:47 I don't know if that's incorrect or not, probably. Can you say that again? Well, it's when people, at least seems like in our culture, there's a lot of victim mentality where someone is doing something to me. Yeah. Like my parents ruined my life by not winning the lottery or, you know, they were mean to me when I was a kid. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:47 Highlight the passage at 1:03:47

1:04:14 So you have a victim mentality by losing this. that you're talking i don't know there's really not a good way to describe it but it disarms that victim mentality because you realize that it's because of your own grasping at yourself Because what you're saying brings up something quite interesting actually, which is that at the same time that there is this strong sense of I, which is really to do with, you could almost say like the ultimate level. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:14 Highlight the passage at 1:04:14

1:04:49 In the sense that it's a feeling of, supposedly anyway, associated with a strong sense of a me that's inherently existent. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:49 Highlight the passage at 1:04:49

1:04:59 Alongside of that is going some more sort of superficial level of ignorance, which is a sense of my suffering has been caused by somebody out there. And it's interesting, isn't it, that if you were to actually... Implement actually what we normally describe as being an antidote to anger, which would involve recognizing that my suffering is not caused by somebody else, but I'm the cause of it, I created the cause for this. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:59 Highlight the passage at 1:04:59

1:05:34 When you start thinking that, which is actually wisdom working, it's not the ultimate wisdom of realizing emptiness, but it is wisdom. While that's working, for sure... The sense of I, the inherent existing I, becomes weaker, doesn't it? Isn't that interesting? Report an error in the passage at 1:05:34 Highlight the passage at 1:05:34

1:05:58 And so then, anyway, the appearance, when we're applying it to the person and to ourselves as individuals, the appearance of a me, which is inherently existing without being merely labelled by the mind and so on, it's kind of there all the time. But there are some times when it's more obvious than others, right? So they give these examples of, oh, like when you're unjustly accused of doing something, I don't know, like stealing or whatever. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:58 Highlight the passage at 1:05:58

1:06:37 You know how they say, I quite like the way that Kensington Mishay puts it. He talks about you're in a room, a crowded room, and somebody calls your name. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:37 Highlight the passage at 1:06:37

1:06:55 And so you answer yes, you know. And then they say, then they start, you know, accusing you of stealing. I don't know, maybe taking money out of the till or cooking the books or whatever it might be, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:55 Highlight the passage at 1:06:55

1:07:09 So then, you know, you didn't do it. Probably you'd feel quite a strong sense of eye even if you had done it. But, you know, especially when you haven't even done it and they've accused me. Who do they think they are accusing me of this? I didn't do that. So in such a situation you would get a very strong sense of I. And there's a real reason for him giving that context of the crowded room where your name's been called out and you've identified yourself by answering to your name because now you see when they start insulting you and accusing you, you can't sort of look around you to wonder who they're talking about. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:09 Highlight the passage at 1:07:09

1:07:56 Trying to sort of, you know, like divert the fire. Everybody knows because you've helped them to know that this is being aimed at you. Everybody knows this because it's bad enough being accused of something you didn't do, especially, you know, like for people who consider themselves to be quite honest and upright, to be accused of stealing. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:56 Highlight the passage at 1:07:56

1:08:22 It's terrible, isn't it? But to be accused of that in front of everybody, unbearable. Because then you risk what? You risk your reputation. Your reputation has been besmirched. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:22 Highlight the passage at 1:08:22

1:08:39 And then, so Report an error in the passage at 1:08:39 Highlight the passage at 1:08:39

1:08:45 they talk about the, well actually I'm saying they, I mean, when I first started listening to Buddhist teachings, I don't know why, but anyway, I don't know if it was a reflection of the way that the teacher was teaching or if it was a reflection of just the translations. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:45 Highlight the passage at 1:08:45

1:09:02 He always used the term the vividly appearing I. The vividly appearing I. Right. So, that vividly appearing I, especially, you know, if you've been in a very dangerous situation where you were just about to fall, I don't know if anybody's been rock climbing here. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:02 Highlight the passage at 1:09:02

1:09:30 Interesting. I keep linking everything back to my experience last weekend or the weekend before, you know, our last Sunday. After His Holiness' teachings, I got lost, right? I got lost for two and a half hours walking around San Francisco trying to find this centre. I couldn't remember the address. So, you know, I got lots of a vividly appearing eye. And, you know, you get this feeling of me, you know, like being in danger or, you know, like in this actually quite fearful situation because, you know, if I couldn't... Report an error in the passage at 1:09:30 Highlight the passage at 1:09:30

1:10:09 I mean, you know, the time was just going by and I wasn't finding the place and I was going up and down and here and there and asking people and they were sending me this direction and that direction. And I'm beginning to think, you know, I'm not going to find the place today, you know, I'm going to, I'll have to find the greyhound stand or something, go and sleep in the park or something, I don't know, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:09 Highlight the passage at 1:10:09

1:10:30 And it's interesting, you see, it's not a sense of, you know, my body being at risk, it's not my mind at risk, it's me. So, you know, the stronger there is this sense of I, and the more vividly there is this appearance of that I, the more vividly it's appearing. In fact, the very term, vividly appearing I, and strong sense of I, is meant to denote the idea of a sort of like an appearance of a me or a feeling of a me, independent of anything else. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:30 Highlight the passage at 1:10:30

1:11:07 And, you know, like... In those situations, very dangerous situations, like when you're just about to fall off a precipice, or anyway, you're kind of like scrambling on this precipice, and you know that if you're just a slip and you're down, you're going to plunge over the edge. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:07 Highlight the passage at 1:11:07

1:11:26 And maybe like in the Matrix, that was... There isn't a sense of my body's in danger. There isn't a sense of my mind's in danger. It's I. I am in danger. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:26 Highlight the passage at 1:11:26

1:11:46 There's almost no appearance of body or mind there even. It's just I. There's just sort of like this overwhelming feeling of I, appearance of an I in your mind. Just I. That's all you're aware of is I am in danger. And that's the appearance of the independently existing I, the inherently existing I. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:46 Highlight the passage at 1:11:46

1:12:15 And that's the main objective. So even your... Report an error in the passage at 1:12:15 Highlight the passage at 1:12:15

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:12:19 Negation by emptiness, the meditation on emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:19 Highlight the passage at 1:12:19

1:12:28 So yeah, those are situations where it becomes particularly clear to our minds. If we think about such examples, it will become particularly clear to our minds that we do have a belief in an I which is self-existent, existing from its own side, inherently existent. These are all different ways of putting the same thing, aren't they? An I which is not merely labelled. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:28 Highlight the passage at 1:12:28

1:12:53 An I which is independent. Now, again going back to sort of like the beginning, the more you meditate on dependent arising, in other words, the more you become familiar with the fact that things are dependent, the more obvious it will be to you that things appear otherwise. So the message there is, you know, as you continue to familiarize yourself with the fact of everything, especially oneself being dependent, The more expansive, maybe that's the wrong word, the more unlimited would be your awareness of how things in general, especially yourself, always have this appearance of independent existence. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:53 Highlight the passage at 1:12:53

1:13:45 Anyway, when I say extensive or expansive, what I'm trying to say is it won't be so limited. It won't only be in very emotional. Situations, dangerous situations and so on, that you can say to yourself, yes, that now I can see there's this feeling and appearance of an independently existing me. As you're walking around, if you turn your mindfulness, your awareness, to your image of yourself in any given situation, even just ordinary situations when you're walking around. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:45 Highlight the passage at 1:13:45

1:14:25 And you sort of look at your sense of I there, you see that the I that appears to your mind as you're looking there isn't an I which is merely labelled. And also something I nearly forgot. Do you think, I Report an error in the passage at 1:14:25 Highlight the passage at 1:14:25

1:14:51 think this is the point I was going to make, do you think that if you had an awareness of yourself being merely labelled? dependent, empty of inherent existence, that you would have that strong sense of I. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:51 Highlight the passage at 1:14:51

1:15:11 And what about in a dangerous situation? Report an error in the passage at 1:15:11 Highlight the passage at 1:15:11

1:15:19 Like if you're on the edge of the cliff. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:19 Highlight the passage at 1:15:19

1:15:32 So now what Report an error in the passage at 1:15:32 Highlight the passage at 1:15:32

1:15:48 about kind of objection number one is that is what... It helps us to survive. Without that, I mean, you know, put it this way. When you're kind of like scrabbling along a cliff edge, or maybe if you're a real rock climber, you don't scrabble, but anyway. I went rock climbing a couple of times and what I was doing was kind of scrabbling. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:48 Highlight the passage at 1:15:48

1:16:21 I mean, you naturally have that strong sense of I, don't you? And if you don't have it, I mean, you know, it almost seems like, you know, this sort of... It goes hand in hand with this strong sense of I. And the lack of the strong sense of I seems to go hand in hand with being relaxed. And you can't relax when you're scrabbling along that cliff edge. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:21 Highlight the passage at 1:16:21

1:16:45 So what do you do? Maybe Lama Zopa can do it, but it's kind of quite difficult to see how, isn't it? Maybe Lama Zopa could be kind of like holding on and not grasping at the eye kind of thing. But I can't see myself doing it. So what do you do? What does that mean? This is a very real objection. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:45 Highlight the passage at 1:16:45

1:17:07 You don't go outdoors, actually. In fact, you better not stay indoors either. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:07 Highlight the passage at 1:17:07

1:17:19 Panicked. I Report an error in the passage at 1:17:19 Highlight the passage at 1:17:19

1:17:24 wasn't thinking too much about emptiness. I probably had some Dharma thoughts. Sometimes I was just laughing because I was thinking, this is just so stupid. been kidding me. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:24 Highlight the passage at 1:17:24

1:17:39 Yeah, I mean, it would have been good if I'd had more awareness, then I would have something more interesting to report back. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:39 Highlight the passage at 1:17:39

1:17:48 You eventually found it. Yeah, I did, yeah. Were you still honest about it? Were you really quite afraid? There was one time when I was a bit afraid, which is that not far from here, on a corner, there was this guy that stopped me and asked me something. Anyway, he engaged me in conversation. And when he got up close to me, I knew that... Report an error in the passage at 1:17:48 Highlight the passage at 1:17:48

1:18:13 And he'd been, you know, he smelt of alcohol and asking for money. I started feeling that I'm kind of like, now I'm one of the guys on the street, and this is one of the guys I'm going to have to deal with if I'm living on I wonder if Report an error in the passage at 1:18:13 Highlight the passage at 1:18:13

1:18:45 you wouldn't be able to think more clearly if you weren't just panicked. Because, I mean, when that eye comes up, sometimes you just panic. And that's not necessarily going to save your life. Okay. Well, the thing is, panic, maybe. You may be right about panicking. In fact, yeah, I'm sure you're right about panicking. I mean, you know, like Rambo and what's his name? Report an error in the passage at 1:18:45 Highlight the passage at 1:18:45

1:19:10 Bourne, you know, the Bourne. The Bourne, supremacy and all that. Jason Bourne. I mean, they weren't panickers, right? But there's something else going on there, though, isn't there? I mean, there is some kind of energy that comes up in a dangerous situation, which we need. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:10 Highlight the passage at 1:19:10

1:19:29 Now it's just so difficult and maybe for us it's not possible actually to have that kind of, I mean probably people would just describe it as kind of an adrenaline rush. There's just this energy that just naturally comes when you see you're in danger. Maybe for us it's just not going to be possible to separate that out from a strong sense of I and it's just a question of at best being aware of it happening. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:29 Highlight the passage at 1:19:29

1:19:58 I wonder. Yeah, because with that story of Lama Zopa, actually, he just passively watched it happening. He didn't try to save himself. He didn't even try to save himself? No, he was plucked out of the water, but it wasn't from his doing. But he was all just fine with it, so I don't know. Amazing. Yeah, but I mean, okay, this is going to sound... I mean, I have to say, you know, Report an error in the passage at 1:19:58 Highlight the passage at 1:19:58

1:20:29 that's kind of amazing. But on the other hand, doesn't it mean if somebody hadn't been, you know, we wouldn't have a Lama Zopa? I really don't know how that works. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:29 Highlight the passage at 1:20:29

1:20:51 No, Report an error in the passage at 1:20:51 Highlight the passage at 1:20:51

1:20:55 I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about whether or not a person, if they're sufficiently developed, whether they would be able to... it just seems like with the training... Report an error in the passage at 1:20:55 Highlight the passage at 1:20:55

1:20:52 know, how trained he's trained his mind. No Report an error in the passage at 1:20:52 Highlight the passage at 1:20:52

1:21:06 Save themselves or not. I'm talking about... No, just his reaction to not having that strong eye come out. Anyway, this is getting too close to criticizing my... I feel kind of like almost... I feel almost angry at the thought that he could have been just letting himself go and putting all that at risk. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:06 Highlight the passage at 1:21:06

1:21:28 But anyway, I mean, it's too difficult to understand something like that. It's just too difficult to understand. And also, I mean, you don't know to what extent he was... Giving a teaching in his description, showing that it was... Maybe what would have actually happened was the next moment he'd have leapt out by himself. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:28 Highlight the passage at 1:21:28

1:21:49 So he's telling us that it is possible to just be aware, and that's what he was doing in the beginning. Because when he was pulled out of the water, did they have to give him mouth-to-mouth resistance? No. So he hadn't actually started taking in water. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:49 Highlight the passage at 1:21:49

1:22:09 Yeah. So what happened? He was safe, wasn't he? You said somebody plucked him out of the water. This is probably when he was a kid? Yeah. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:09 Highlight the passage at 1:22:09

1:22:29 And he didn't. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:29 Highlight the passage at 1:22:29

1:22:36 Yeah. He just started taking in water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:36 Highlight the passage at 1:22:36

1:22:57 Yeah, a bit like when you go to the dentist and they tell you to relax because it's going to hurt less. If you relax, it hurts less. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:57 Highlight the passage at 1:22:57

1:23:07 Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:07 Highlight the passage at 1:23:07

1:23:24 You can actually do that. Amazing. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:24 Highlight the passage at 1:23:24

1:23:32 Forget it. I'm not going to go surfing. The Report an error in the passage at 1:23:32 Highlight the passage at 1:23:32

1:23:45 drive to not let go would be a combination of the awareness of your, the preciousness of your body and then with the idea of bodhicitta that without it you might not have the opportunity in the next life to do. think. No, no, no. I think I said it. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:45 Highlight the passage at 1:23:45

1:24:06 To do anything positive. And so the wanting to hold on instead of being about saving myself is more... Could be a compassionate one, yeah. Yeah. I think there is that potential, isn't there? Maybe. Well, if enlightenment is possible. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:06 Highlight the passage at 1:24:06

1:24:41 Okay, so that was mainly about the fact that it's not just that... Everything is empty and everything is dependent. Everything is empty because of being dependent, right? It's not just an observation of the nature kind of thing, but it's something which is very important for us because of the fact that although everything is dependent and therefore empty, that's not how it appears. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:41 Highlight the passage at 1:24:41

1:25:21 Things appear differently. And then we believe the way we think that they appear, so we're fooled by that appearance. And then within that sort of state of being fooled, all of the other mental afflictions are able to operate, and they couldn't otherwise. And that's the meaning of saying that ignorance is the root of psychic existence. That sort of like state of believing things to exist as they appear to exist, Without being merely labelled as they appear to be, another word for that is ignorance, right? And they say that's the root of psychic existence, that's the root of all of our suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:21 Highlight the passage at 1:25:21

1:26:06 So just like getting rid of a root gets rid of the whole tree, getting rid of this ignorance will get rid of all of that suffering completely. So it's not just a theory, it's something that's very important for our own minds and our own lives, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 1:26:06 Highlight the passage at 1:26:06

1:26:28 So, well, let's just... Go back and check out that we feel comfortable with this description of the emptiness meditation that comes from Lama Zopa. First of all the thing appears, then we label on it, then the thing appears to have that label independent of our having sort of placed it there, then we believe in that appearance. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:28 Highlight the passage at 1:26:28

1:27:03 So does that make sense? Report an error in the passage at 1:27:03 Highlight the passage at 1:27:03

1:27:07 So, not just theoretically, but is that how it works? Report an error in the passage at 1:27:07 Highlight the passage at 1:27:07

1:27:14 Is that how it works? So, Report an error in the passage at 1:27:14 Highlight the passage at 1:27:14

1:27:22 like, I don't know, this watch here. So you would say it appears, then you label. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:22 Highlight the passage at 1:27:22

1:27:34 In fact, the way Lama is obviously said it like this, if I remember rightly. First moment, it appears, the watch appears. Second moment, we label on it. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:34 Highlight the passage at 1:27:34

1:27:46 Third moment, it appears to... It exists as a watch in this case, independently of our having labelled it. Fourth moment, we believe in that appearance. Is that how it works? Report an error in the passage at 1:27:46 Highlight the passage at 1:27:46

1:28:06 Are you sure? Report an error in the passage at 1:28:06 Highlight the passage at 1:28:06

1:28:11 Yeah, that's a safe answer. That's a much safer answer. I mean, in what sense? I mean, do you feel that when you see this watch, the first thing there is just this appearance of an object and then you label, the next moment you've labelled a watch on it? No, it's instantaneous. Instantaneous, not simultaneous, right? Because remember Lama Zopa said next moment, he didn't say next minute, next hour, he said next moment. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:11 Highlight the passage at 1:28:11

1:28:40 So he's also saying instantaneously, he's not saying otherwise. But is that how it happens? Something is appearing to you, then you label watch onto it. Then the next moment, next second, next instant, it appears to have that, you know, exist. How do you put that? In the case of the label watch, it exists as a watch, independent of your having labelled it. And then the next moment you believe it. So does everybody here believe that this watch exists independently of our having labelled it? Report an error in the passage at 1:28:40 Highlight the passage at 1:28:40

1:29:21 No, no, I didn't ask that. Excuse me, that was not my question. Does everybody in this room believe that this watch... exists as a watch independently of our having labelled it. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:21 Highlight the passage at 1:29:21

1:29:45 And do you know what? I don't believe you for a moment. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:45 Highlight the passage at 1:29:45

1:29:54 so apart so we've just we've only got one person who's half believes it that none of the rest of you believe it that this uh exists from So what are you talking about then? When I say... Lama Zopa says, the fourth point is, we believe it. You're saying, yes, yes, yes, that's how it is. And then I say, so do you believe it? No. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:54 Highlight the passage at 1:29:54

1:30:23 Yeah, but you didn't say that. You said you believe it. The eye is believing it. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:23 Highlight the passage at 1:30:23

1:30:34 Your mind believes it. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:34 Highlight the passage at 1:30:34

1:30:39 Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:39 Highlight the passage at 1:30:39

1:30:50 Anyway, it kind of makes sense, this idea, doesn't it? Somehow you can know intellectually that it's true, because you obviously heard and read. And thought about the fact that if you were to look for the watch within its past, you wouldn't find something you can point out as being a watch. So you know on an intellectual level. But you still... Report an error in the passage at 1:30:50 Highlight the passage at 1:30:50

1:31:13 Well, we can see that it appears otherwise, can't we? In fact, this is a good example. Particularly with a watch, because everybody's got a watch. Everybody goes around with a watch. So you can always do this meditation wherever you are. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:13 Highlight the passage at 1:31:13

1:31:28 This thing is called a watch, right? This watch does exist, doesn't it? Okay. much. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:28 Highlight the passage at 1:31:28

1:31:35 Does it exist or not? So are you not able to say that it exists? Because I'm not asking you whether it exists conventionally or not. I'm asking you whether it exists or not. Thank you. Thank you. In fact, the only way for it to exist is conventionally. Right. So yes, it does exist conventionally, but that does also mean it exists. If something exists conventionally, it exists. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:35 Highlight the passage at 1:31:35

1:32:04 If it exists, it exists conventionally. There's no other way. Okay, so this watch does exist. Now, if you were to look for this watch, would you be able to find it or not? Report an error in the passage at 1:32:04 Highlight the passage at 1:32:04

1:32:28 There Report an error in the passage at 1:32:28 Highlight the passage at 1:32:28

1:32:32 is a watch here, isn't there? Okay, so the watch is findable, isn't it? It's something that can be found. If you lose it, you can find it. If somebody says, where's the watch? They can say, there it is over there. It's something that can be pointed out. It's something that can be found. But now, if we start looking... Report an error in the passage at 1:32:32 Highlight the passage at 1:32:32

1:32:52 For the watch within the basis of designation of watch, it can't be found. Okay, so what does that mean then, the basis of designation of watch? Report an error in the passage at 1:32:52 Highlight the passage at 1:32:52

1:33:05 Let's not get lost in the jargon. We have to live with this jargon because actually it helps us to speak precisely, but we've also got to know what it means. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:05 Highlight the passage at 1:33:05

1:33:18 Perfect, yes. In other words, it's actually, you know, very simple. The basis of designation of watch, in other words, the basis of designation of a word, Report an error in the passage at 1:33:18 Highlight the passage at 1:33:18

1:33:30 What it is that we're pointing at when we apply that label watch, that's what we call the base of designation of watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:30 Highlight the passage at 1:33:30

1:33:49 Is that clear? So that's what it means, the base of designation. Actually, there's something a little bit tricky here, because I'm saying the thing that you can... That you're applying the label watch to is the basic designation of the watch, right? And those two, they are separate things, aren't they? Report an error in the passage at 1:33:49 Highlight the passage at 1:33:49

1:34:11 You've got the name that's being applied and the thing that the name is being applied to. They are separate things, aren't they? And yet, what's this? Report an error in the passage at 1:34:11 Highlight the passage at 1:34:11

1:34:21 It's a watch, isn't it? So the word watch applies to? Report an error in the passage at 1:34:21 Highlight the passage at 1:34:21

1:34:29 Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. I mean, we all agree with that. But isn't it a bit odd that actually, on one level, we seem to be able to say, you know, that thing over there is a watch. So there's the base of designation. The name watch applies to it. So, you know, it's the base of designation of the word watch. But also, this thing itself is a watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:34:29 Highlight the passage at 1:34:29

1:34:55 So does that mean that we're labelling watch onto watch? Report an error in the passage at 1:34:55 Highlight the passage at 1:34:55

1:35:06 Because actually, Ken Tsarimbashi, when he was talking, I was asking him about this afterwards. I should say he didn't actually say it in the class. It's something that came out. Report an error in the passage at 1:35:06 Highlight the passage at 1:35:06

1:35:13 In a discussion afterwards, so you could say that I'm just making it up or hallucinating because it wasn't recorded. But he said, well, yeah, it's something that's a watch that we call a watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:35:13 Highlight the passage at 1:35:13

1:35:24 But it's funny, isn't it, because I'm not trying to be tricky. There is some sense, isn't there, in the statement that it's something which is a watch that we call a watch. You can't call something which isn't a watch a watch. Because you'd just be stupid. Everyone would know you're just stupid. Report an error in the passage at 1:35:24 Highlight the passage at 1:35:24

1:35:57 Maybe it's like this. Okay. Maybe it's as simple as this. There is a difference between the basic designation of watch and watch. So, you know, the name watch applies to this thing. This thing is a watch, but of course it's not a watch from its own side. It's a watch because we label it watch. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Because it's not like you've got this basic designation over here and the sort of the label watch, which sort of like, you know, hovers. Report an error in the passage at 1:35:57 Highlight the passage at 1:35:57

1:36:27 Somewhere over here. It's this thing that we label the watch. This is just an image really. This term watch, it kind of hits the watch itself. So that base of designation is the watch without the label watch and the base of designation becoming sort of like the same thing, indistinguishable. You see what I mean? It's like you label watch onto that. Report an error in the passage at 1:36:27 Highlight the passage at 1:36:27

1:36:56 So once you've labelled watch onto that, it is a watch. So it's in that sense that you can say watch is labelled onto watch. But you might find that if you try to discuss this with Lama Zopa, he might just dismantle you. Report an error in the passage at 1:36:56 Highlight the passage at 1:36:56

1:37:14 Because actually, I'll tell the truth. Some years ago in France, Lama Zopa was teaching, and as he does, you know, he... He stopped at a certain point and started debating the audience. And I was sitting quite close to the front, so I think he actually turned to me and said, you know, what's the base of designation of... Report an error in the passage at 1:37:14 Highlight the passage at 1:37:14

1:37:39 It might not have been watch, it might have been table or something. He said, what's the base of designation of table? What is it that we label table onto? I said, the table. And he kind of gave me this look. He's so compassionate, he often doesn't say... That's wrong kind of thing, that's stupid. He just kind of, what? Report an error in the passage at 1:37:39 Highlight the passage at 1:37:39

1:38:04 So I had to kind of think about that for a long time, yeah. But it's funny, you know, you can see how in a way, when we're talking about labelling, there has to be something that's being labelled onto and there's somehow, you know, there's a difference, you know, there's that thing which is being labelled onto. Report an error in the passage at 1:38:04 Highlight the passage at 1:38:04

1:38:22 There's also some sense in that, in saying that, you know, you call a... You call a watch a watch. You don't call something which isn't a watch a watch. So anyway, this is something just to figure out for ourselves. The point is, the main point not to lose, is that when you look for the thing within the basis, you won't find it. Report an error in the passage at 1:38:22 Highlight the passage at 1:38:22

1:38:43 That's all. Whatever, you might get the terminology wrong sometimes. And it is important to get the terminology right because we have to be able to communicate these things. Report an error in the passage at 1:38:43 Highlight the passage at 1:38:43

1:38:54 But the main thing is, you know... Whether it's a name or whether it's a quality or whatever it is that you're projecting onto an object, when you look within the object that you've labelled onto or imputed onto, you won't find that quality, that name, that thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:38:54 Highlight the passage at 1:38:54

1:39:10 Well, that's anyway what the present geekers say will happen. Whether it does or not is something for us to find out for ourselves, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 1:39:10 Highlight the passage at 1:39:10

1:39:21 We shouldn't really jump to the conclusion that that is what we're going to discover. I mean, that's what we're investigating, in fact, isn't it? Can you find, do you find the qualities that you impute onto objects, can you find them in the object? It's actually quite outrageous really to say that you can't find anything when you look within the basis, you know, that object that you're projecting onto or imputing onto. Report an error in the passage at 1:39:21 Highlight the passage at 1:39:21

1:39:49 Because it feels very much like saying, well, what is the difference, you know? Doesn't it seem like saying the thing just, how can you say that something exists if you can't find it at all? Report an error in the passage at 1:39:49 Highlight the passage at 1:39:49

1:40:02 It's quite difficult to hold on to the idea of the thing existing at the same time as knowing that if you were to look for it, you wouldn't be able to find it in the basis. We're so used to thinking that if you can't find something, it doesn't exist, that now when we apply it to looking for the thing within the basis and not finding anything, if you can't find it, it can't be there. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:02 Highlight the passage at 1:40:02

1:40:23 So it's not there, there's no watch there. If you can't find the watch where the watch is, then where else are you going to find it? So when you look within everything that is the watch and you don't find the watch, it's kind of quite difficult to sustain the sense of there nevertheless being a watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:23 Highlight the passage at 1:40:23

1:40:42 And yet emptiness definitely doesn't annihilate things. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:42 Highlight the passage at 1:40:42

1:40:57 Well, I tell you what, it's not true that everybody should become a monk or a nun, but becoming a monk and then getting the chance to do this kind of thing is really good fun. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:57 Highlight the passage at 1:40:57

1:41:18 Educational too. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:18 Highlight the passage at 1:41:18

1:41:22 From its own side, yeah. Otherwise, it couldn't be fun, could it? Well, that's what the Swatantrikas say, isn't it? It must be fun from its own sight. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:22 Highlight the passage at 1:41:22

1:41:41 So everybody here has learned these things to some extent already, haven't they? Everybody here. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:41 Highlight the passage at 1:41:41

1:41:53 So then, just for the last thing we could talk about a bit, it's very closely related to this anyway. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:53 Highlight the passage at 1:41:53

1:42:09 You know, the Swatantrikas... The other Madhyamika school, you know, you've got the Madhyamika Prasangikas, Shantrikas. So the Madhyamika Shantrikas, they say that what the Prasangikas say about not being able to find anything is nonsense. Because if nothing can be found from the side of the object, then it would be totally valid and totally acceptable to basically to label anything on anything and it would just be true. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:09 Highlight the passage at 1:42:09

1:42:44 Because you don't need anything from the side of the object. So just because there isn't something from the side of the object that qualifies it for that label that you've imputed on it, doesn't matter. The subalternals are saying that the Prasangikis must be saying that. They're saying to the Prasangikis, for you it wouldn't matter that the thing, it wouldn't matter for us to label anything on anything. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:44 Highlight the passage at 1:42:44

1:43:13 Because you don't need something from the side of the object. You're not going to be able to say, yeah, of course you can't label anything on anything. You know, you label watch onto this kind of object and table onto that kind of object. You know, there isn't. Because that would imply there's something from the side of the object that makes a difference. But you can't say that because you've said nothing can be found when you look for the object. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:13 Highlight the passage at 1:43:13

1:43:37 There's nothing existing at all, they say. Nothing at all existing from the side of the object. Nothing at all that you'll be able to find. So in that case you could label anything and it would be valid. How can you possibly say that it's not valid? So in other words, if I label, you know, like watch onto this book, that would be valid, totally valid, totally reasonable. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:37 Highlight the passage at 1:43:37

1:44:01 There's nothing you could fault about it. So then what other person you could say in reply? This is wrong. We're not saying that. What you label onto has to be a valid basis. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:01 Highlight the passage at 1:44:01

1:44:16 Right? You've all heard this before. Okay, we don't have to add conventionally. It's true. If you add conventionally, it's true. But you see, the thing is, when you say conventionally, it almost sounds like what you're trying to say is otherwise not. Conventionally, yes, but not generally. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:16 Highlight the passage at 1:44:16

1:44:35 We can add the word conventionally just to clarify matters, you know, in other words, to make the point that ultimately, no, conventionally, yes. But generally speaking, we can say. conventionally, sorry. Generally speaking, the present will say there has to be a valid basis. You have to impute onto a valid basis for it to be a valid imputation. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:35 Highlight the passage at 1:44:35

1:45:03 The basis has to be valid. So then the Swatantrikas come back and say, aha, that means you do accept that something exists from the side of the object, which is the valid basis. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:03 Highlight the passage at 1:45:03

1:45:20 So have you all got that one then? Somebody explain. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:20 Highlight the passage at 1:45:20

1:45:26 Everybody's busily saying, yeah, those stupid stratantricists, you know, how could they possibly make that mistake? Report an error in the passage at 1:45:26 Highlight the passage at 1:45:26

1:45:36 So what is the answer to that? Report an error in the passage at 1:45:36 Highlight the passage at 1:45:36

1:45:43 So they do need something from the side of the object, don't they? Yes, they do. They've got that from the side of the object, not from the side of the person. From the side of the object, there's got to be a valid basis. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:43 Highlight the passage at 1:45:43

1:46:15 you can't call a watch an ice cream Report an error in the passage at 1:46:15 Highlight the passage at 1:46:15

1:46:23 was the basis for ice cream, ice cream, and a watch. This is what the present geekers are saying, isn't it? They're saying there does have to be a valid basis. And the Spartanians are coming back and saying, aha, so you do accept there has to be something from the side of the object. Report an error in the passage at 1:46:23 Highlight the passage at 1:46:23

1:46:50 Well, look at it this way. Whether you talk about this thing or this thing here, for the sake of the listening audience, I am holding in my left hand. Report an error in the passage at 1:46:50 Highlight the passage at 1:46:50

1:47:04 What is conventionally known as a watch, and in my right hand what is conventionally known as a cup and saucer. So in either case, if you were to search, you wouldn't find the watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:04 Highlight the passage at 1:47:04

1:47:18 Yes, the function is different. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:18 Highlight the passage at 1:47:18

1:47:25 So this doesn't function as a watch. So it's not a valid basis for watch. This does. So what's the difference? I mean, aren't you saying, therefore, this from its own, from the site On the side of this object, there is the ability to function as a watch. Therefore, it's valid to call it a watch. With this one, there isn't the ability to function as a watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:25 Highlight the passage at 1:47:25

1:47:52 Therefore, it's not a watch. The point is, why is it, can somebody explain clearly to me, why it is that the object has to be a valid basis for imputing watch? In order for the imputation of what's to be valid, right? That's what we're saying, isn't it? So why doesn't that mean that therefore... I mean, does that not therefore mean that there has to be something from the side of the object? Report an error in the passage at 1:47:52 Highlight the passage at 1:47:52

1:48:30 Because the ability to function as a watch, the ability to tell time, doesn't come from my side, does it? So where does it come from then? Report an error in the passage at 1:48:30 Highlight the passage at 1:48:30

1:48:46 This I wouldn't disagree with. But the thing is, is that, you know... Whatever you just said, does that come from this or from me? Huh? Do you really mean that? Or are you just saying that? If you get someone who... Yeah. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. No, I mean, little babies doesn't... No, but I mean someone that's... No, people who don't know has no effect on the reality of the situation. Report an error in the passage at 1:48:46 Highlight the passage at 1:48:46

1:49:20 The fact of this being a watch, okay, this is a watch, right? Right. Okay, now the reason that it's valid for us to call this a watch is because this has the ability to function as a watch, whereas this doesn't. Report an error in the passage at 1:49:20 Highlight the passage at 1:49:20

1:49:45 I mean, actually, before I bother to really kind of keep going with this, I mean, do you all actually feel very clear in your minds that the fact that there has to be a valid basis for the imputation doesn't mean in any way? That therefore something has to exist from the side of the object. I'm not talking about, you know, like technically and according to the theory of it, but you actually don't feel that just because there has to be a valid basis that that means that there is something existing from the side of the object. Report an error in the passage at 1:49:45 Highlight the passage at 1:49:45

1:50:19 You just don't, you feel there's just totally different things. Do you feel that? Report an error in the passage at 1:50:19 Highlight the passage at 1:50:19

1:50:38 Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 1:50:38 Highlight the passage at 1:50:38

1:50:42 okay, I'm not talking about, you know, I'm not going back to this distinction between what you intellectually know and what you... sort of feel on a more instinctive level just saying you know doesn't it sound a bit when you say that there has to be a valid basis doesn't it sound a bit like therefore there has to be something from the side of the object doesn't I think Report an error in the passage at 1:50:42 Highlight the passage at 1:50:42

1:51:02 that's close but I think there's it sound like that? It does. It does. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:02 Highlight the passage at 1:51:02

1:51:21 Something which brings us even closer. When you look for the watch in the basis of designation, you don't find watch right. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:21 Highlight the passage at 1:51:21

1:51:37 Specifically, you don't find the valid basis. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:37 Highlight the passage at 1:51:37

1:51:43 And that's why it isn't a sign of it existing from its own side. If when you look for the watch within its basis, you were to find the valid basis of imputation, that would show that it was inherently existent. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:43 Highlight the passage at 1:51:43

1:52:02 Because actually, if you think about it, This is quite interesting. If you think about it, when we say, when we talk about searching for the watch within the basis of imputation, we mean, you know, we're talking about whether, trying to find out if there's something within that basis of designation that you could point out and say, this is a watch and it functions as a watch, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:52:02 Highlight the passage at 1:52:02

1:52:31 So that's the same as saying, looking for the watch and finding a valid basis of imputation. For watch, something which functions as a watch would be a valid base of imputation, wouldn't it? So in actual fact we already know because you can't find the watch when you look within the base of imputation, in other words because you can't find something which functions as a watch when you look within the base of imputation, we already know that when you look within the bases you don't find a valid base of imputation for the term watch. Report an error in the passage at 1:52:31 Highlight the passage at 1:52:31

1:53:07 In actual fact... The valid basis of imputation is what you find when you look for the watch on a conventional level. You do find the valid basis of imputation of the watch, but not when you're looking within the bases. Report an error in the passage at 1:53:07 Highlight the passage at 1:53:07

1:53:25 You only find it conventionally. So it's a very different thing. I think that's the main point. So, you know, like I say, I think that it's... I mean, what you're saying may be completely right, but I just have this feeling that, you know, you can just... Refine that and say that the main thing is you don't find it when you're looking for the watch. It's not just the fact that you can't find the base of imputation when you look for it. Report an error in the passage at 1:53:25 Highlight the passage at 1:53:25

1:53:51 That would be like another step. The main thing that's going on here is that you don't find it when you look for the watch. And therefore, that doesn't imply, you know, the fact that there has to be a valid base of imputation doesn't imply that the watch is inherently existent. Report an error in the passage at 1:53:51 Highlight the passage at 1:53:51

1:54:13 Because if it did, it would have meant that you found that when you were looking for it, when you were looking for the watch, but you didn't. But anyway, so that's, I Report an error in the passage at 1:54:13 Highlight the passage at 1:54:13

1:54:27 feel uncomfortable leaving it like that, which, you know, because, you know, I mean, we're not the sort of the centre of our existence, except maybe if you've got a really expensive Rolex watch, isn't our watch, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:54:27 Highlight the passage at 1:54:27

1:54:44 But it's handy to have this kind of thing, which is, you know, Sort of something out there that you can relate to as an external object, which is the kind of thing that we're most used to dealing with. It's not very important in my life, so it's not something I'm going to get very excited about. So you can look at it quite dispassionately. But now, if we were to apply this to ourselves, then how would we do that? Report an error in the passage at 1:54:44 Highlight the passage at 1:54:44

1:55:12 Let's just finish by looking at that. Report an error in the passage at 1:55:12 Highlight the passage at 1:55:12

1:55:34 What's the base of designation of the person? Report an error in the passage at 1:55:34 Highlight the passage at 1:55:34

1:55:44 The mind and body. Yeah, the four aggregates, which are sort of mind and the one aggregate of the body. Report an error in the passage at 1:55:44 Highlight the passage at 1:55:44

1:55:58 And what does that mean when we say that the five aggregates are the basis of designation of the person? So our five aggregates are our basis of designation. What does that mean? Anybody? Report an error in the passage at 1:55:58 Highlight the passage at 1:55:58

1:56:16 Those five aggregates being our parts, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Skanders. Pungpo. All sorts of different names in all sorts of different languages. Okay, yeah. Yeah, that does seem to make sense, doesn't it? To describe the five aggregates as being the five parts of which we're made. Because you sort of feel, well, you know, as a person I have a body and a mind and that's it kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:56:16 Highlight the passage at 1:56:16

1:56:46 I mean, depending upon your religious persuasion, I guess. It seems that... But actually... Is that the Buddhist teaching, that there's just a body and mind? Report an error in the passage at 1:56:46 Highlight the passage at 1:56:46

1:57:07 There's the body, mind and Lama, yeah, but that's... There's awareness. What's wrong with saying that there's the body, there's the mind, or if you want to, there are the five aggregates, and then there's the person? What's wrong with that? Didn't we already say that emptiness doesn't annihilate things? So just because... Report an error in the passage at 1:57:07 Highlight the passage at 1:57:07

1:57:30 There's no inherent existing person. Just because the person can't be found when you look within the aggregates, does that mean that the person doesn't exist? It doesn't, does it? The person does exist. So there's the body, there's the mind, there's the person. But Report an error in the passage at 1:57:30 Highlight the passage at 1:57:30

1:57:51 the body and mind are the basis of imputation of the person. I think that sometimes we get some confusion can happen because, you know, we use this same word, person. Report an error in the passage at 1:57:51 Highlight the passage at 1:57:51

1:58:06 When we say that the five aggregates are the basis of imputation of the person, I think what it really means is that the five aggregates are the basis to which the name person applies. Report an error in the passage at 1:58:06 Highlight the passage at 1:58:06

1:58:21 Then when we say that the person exists, we're not talking about a label. So when you say the aggregates are the basis of imputation of the person, in that case I think you'll find the person is the label itself. Report an error in the passage at 1:58:21 Highlight the passage at 1:58:21

1:58:39 Whereas when we say there's the body... There's the mind and there's the person. At that time we're not just talking about a label, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:58:39 Highlight the passage at 1:58:39

1:58:51 Okay. Report an error in the passage at 1:58:51 Highlight the passage at 1:58:51

1:58:55 So it's not the case. You can say there's the body, there's the mind, there's the label, but you can also say there's the body, there's the mind, there's the person who is made up of those two parts, body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:58:55 Highlight the passage at 1:58:55

1:59:17 Are those the parts of the person, though? That's something to think about. Anyway, there's our body, there's our mind and then there's me. And they do all exist. Report an error in the passage at 1:59:17 Highlight the passage at 1:59:17

1:59:33 What's the relation between them? It's getting a bit late, isn't it? I'm going to get confused. Maybe that's good, actually. Yeah, actually, so, yeah. To get confused, you mean. To stay confused. To maintain an awareness of the confusion. Report an error in the passage at 1:59:33 Highlight the passage at 1:59:33

1:59:58 To figure out if it's the body, the mind and the person that's confused. Yeah, that's right. When you get confused, is it your body that's confused, your mind that's confused or is it you that's confused? Report an error in the passage at 1:59:58 Highlight the passage at 1:59:58

2:00:10 One thing I always... I can't remember if I... I might have even mentioned it last time I was here. That's the problem of having the things one month apart. Even I can't remember what I was talking about. Report an error in the passage at 2:00:10 Highlight the passage at 2:00:10

2:00:21 If I can't remember, maybe you can't remember so I can repeat myself. But I just love this thing that John Fay used to say. John Fay, has he ever been to teach here? No. Okay. He used to teach a lot in London. So when people asked him, you know, how are you? He used to say, my body's sick, my mind's in a mess, but I'm okay. Report an error in the passage at 2:00:21 Highlight the passage at 2:00:21

2:00:59 Well, why not just, you know, spend the next month searching for the eye? Try to, you know, I mean, you might want to... We get a clearer idea of just what the five algorithms are or the body and mind, which is where you're looking for the eye. Actually, I'll tell you what also. Let me think. In Lama Yeshe's little book, I think, what was it, The Essence of Tibetan Buddhism? Is that what it's called? Who said that? Report an error in the passage at 2:00:59 Highlight the passage at 2:00:59

2:01:27 You did. Wow. The Essence of Tibetan Buddhism, right? He puts it interestingly. He says, look at your image of yourself. What is your image of yourself? Report an error in the passage at 2:01:27 Highlight the passage at 2:01:27

2:01:43 So maybe... Just try to get an idea of what your image is of yourself and try to identify that, try to find that within your aggregates or within your body and mind. Just try to find that. I mean, most if not all of us already know that you're not going to find anything. But just knowing it isn't enough, is it? We know very well that it's going to take a lot of searching before we become really convinced in our hearts. Report an error in the passage at 2:01:43 Highlight the passage at 2:01:43

2:02:17 Just the true status or nature of ourselves. So that would be good. Your self-image, your image of yourself. And then, like they say in the analysis by way of the four essential points, the essential point of ascertaining the object of negation means getting this clear... Image in your mind of the inherently existing I, basically. How the I would have to exist if it were inherently existing, how it would have to be. Report an error in the passage at 2:02:17 Highlight the passage at 2:02:17

2:03:07 And especially by using those exercises that bring out a clear sense of this vividly appearing I. Report an error in the passage at 2:03:07 Highlight the passage at 2:03:07

2:03:18 Get that kind of image appearing in your mind, kind of like a picture appearing in your mind. And look for that. It's important to look for that. Report an error in the passage at 2:03:18 Highlight the passage at 2:03:18

2:03:27 If you don't do that and just look for the conventionally existing eye and don't find that, then you risk thinking that because you haven't found it, therefore it doesn't exist. Then you risk becoming nihilism. Report an error in the passage at 2:03:27 Highlight the passage at 2:03:27

2:03:45 So asking yourself, what is my image of myself? What image do I have of myself? And taking that and trying to find that. your five aggregates or try to find that in your Just keep looking for it. Maybe sometimes look for it outside your body and mind. I don't know. Out in the street. Report an error in the passage at 2:03:45 Highlight the passage at 2:03:45

2:04:13 I think maybe some meditation masters when they're leading disciples actually get them to do that. Just go outside and look for it. Just look for the eye. Just look everywhere. Report an error in the passage at 2:04:13 Highlight the passage at 2:04:13

2:04:37 So like I was saying in the first evening that I was here, the way... of practicing of the person of, you know, like the clearer intellect is to first of all analyze the meaning of emptiness and then, only then, would such a person find it within themselves, find within themselves the possibility of striving for enlightenment because they're only going to strive for enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 2:04:37 Highlight the passage at 2:04:37

2:05:09 Enlightenment, when they know enlightenment is possible, they're only going to strive for liberation when they know liberation is possible. So Report an error in the passage at 2:05:09 Highlight the passage at 2:05:09

2:05:24 for those who are not so easily going to just follow this kind of idea of enlightenment and liberation just because our teachers talk about it, somebody who's a bit more hard-headed, that's the way they would want to practice. Report an error in the passage at 2:05:24 Highlight the passage at 2:05:24

2:05:43 definitely, you know, the more deeply you... You can understand and work with emptiness. The deeper will be your sense, understanding of things like true cessation and liberation and then enlightenment, the nature of psychic existence. The stronger will be your compassion when you meditate on it. Report an error in the passage at 2:05:43 Highlight the passage at 2:05:43

2:06:17 It would be nice to be able to talk about this in terms of the three types of compassion that come up at the beginning of the Madhyamakapatara. Compassion which is sort of like the beginning of engaging in the middle way of Chandrakirti. It talks about compassion, different types of compassion. Particularly it talks about how compassion becomes deeper. There's a stronger, deeper sense of compassion as one's wisdom deepens. Report an error in the passage at 2:06:17 Highlight the passage at 2:06:17

2:06:46 So we can stop there. Report an error in the passage at 2:06:46 Highlight the passage at 2:06:46

2:07:06 My hand of prayers for teaching should be, but I can't find it. Do you want the general dedication page? Oh yeah, I was looking at the appendices. Yeah, page... 235. Yeah, the ones on 91 will do. What were you looking at? 235. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:06 Highlight the passage at 2:07:06

2:07:25 235. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:25 Highlight the passage at 2:07:25

2:07:29 Oh yeah, there's loads on there. We can't do loads. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:29 Highlight the passage at 2:07:29

2:07:36 They're very nice though, actually, it's true. We'll do the ones on page 91. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:36 Highlight the passage at 2:07:36

2:07:44 As usual, when you're dedicating... suppose. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:44 Highlight the passage at 2:07:44

2:07:46 merits then always think that you're dedicating not just the merit or the virtue that we've created as a group this evening but also all of the virtue of oneself and others of the past present and future Report an error in the passage at 2:07:46 Highlight the passage at 2:07:46

2:07:59 to the merits of these virtuous actions, may I quickly attain... May the supreme jewel bodhicitta that has not arisen... Arise and grow and may that which has arisen not diminish but increase more and more. Just as the brave Manjushri and Samantabhadra too realize things as they are, also I dedicate all these merits in the best way that I may follow their perfect example. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:59 Highlight the passage at 2:07:59

2:08:35 I dedicate all these roots of virtue with the dedication praised as the best. the victorious ones that were scorned of the three times so that I might perform the noble Bodhisattva's deeds. In the land encircled by snowy mountains, you are the source of all happiness and good. Please remain until saṃsāra ends. Report an error in the passage at 2:08:35 Highlight the passage at 2:08:35

2:09:03 You uphold the subdures moral way. who serve as the bountiful bearer of all, sustained, preserving, and spreading Majinath's victorious doctrine, who masterfully accomplish magnificent prayers honoring the three jewels, Savior of myself and others, your disciples, please, please live long. May the king of Dharma Tsongkhapa's way of Dharma practice flourish. May the omens of obstacles be pacified and all the conducive circumstances be complete. Report an error in the passage at 2:09:03 Highlight the passage at 2:09:03

2:09:35 By relying on the two accumulations of myself and others in the three times, may the teachings of the conqueror Los Andragpa blaze for a long time and Report an error in the passage at 2:09:35 Highlight the passage at 2:09:35

2:09:52 finish by spending a few months. The action of dedicating, the virtue dedicated, the goals to which we have dedicated all that virtue. Report an error in the passage at 2:09:52 Highlight the passage at 2:09:52

2:10:23 See you next month. Report an error in the passage at 2:10:23 Highlight the passage at 2:10:23