A New Here: How Practice Opens Different Worlds

0:00 This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Report an error in the passage at 0:00

0:22 Thank you very much for this invitation. Thank you to give me another chance to do this talk. This is a talk that was originally planned to be given four and a half months ago. Report an error in the passage at 0:22

0:40 And then it became the talk that never happened until now. But before I go into that and other things, I'd just like to have a feeling for who am I speaking with here. Is there anyone here who's here for the first time or like fairly unfamiliar to the place? Me too, actually. Report an error in the passage at 0:40

1:07 All right, so we can figure out how this works here together. Thank you. Jiryu said, I listened to a talk just to have a little bit of a feeling for what are these people here usually doing in these Sunday lectures. And I listened to a wonderful talk by Abbot Jiryu on kindness. And you said, Jiryu, that somehow we always say a version of the same thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:07

1:41 And you said, I have no idea why people keep coming back every week. Yeah, I get that. I think that's true. This is just going to be my version of the kind of thing that Zen people say all the time. Report an error in the passage at 1:41

2:02 We've been trying to raise... There's some depth here, actually. I think Buddhism has been trying to raise a particular point for millennia. The Buddha... Report an error in the passage at 2:02

2:20 Mythologically or actually, supposedly, raised that point just by raising a flower. And the story goes, Mahakasyapa, his disciple, smiled. And that is seen as one of the beginnings of Zen. So we're raising, we're trying to raise a point that cannot really be raised in words. But we're raising it. Like for 2,500 years now and are trying to approach it. And we won't get tired of it. Report an error in the passage at 2:20

3:04 I think every dharma talk is a way of meeting and speaking together. This is a relational act, you know, the raising of the flower would not have led to anything if Mahakasyapa hadn't smiled. It's a relational act. It would have just, who knows how many flowers have been raised. In human history, and nobody smiled, nobody responded. Who knows? Report an error in the passage at 3:04

3:35 So it's a point that is not really to be raised in words, and yet maybe words and meeting and speaking together can direct our attention in such a way that something becomes feelable, becomes real for us. And hopefully That kind of smile, the kind of Mahakasyapa's smile, you know, that smile changed the world to the extent that Buddhism has changed the world. Report an error in the passage at 3:35

4:13 We can argue about how successful that has been so far, but it's definitely been something for us, those of us sitting here. We're all sitting here in the midst of the smile of Mahakasyapa. And so I think, you know, every, Report an error in the passage at 4:13

4:34 Dharma talk is that kind of inquiry. What is the raising of the flower? What was brought up? What was understood? And then very importantly, how can this benefit the world? Report an error in the passage at 4:34

4:56 That question has to be in there. How can this benefit the world? Like how are we going to come out of practicing? How are we getting up from our cushion? And how does whatever we're experiencing, how does it benefit the world? It's an ethical question nowadays, I think. Maybe more needed than ever. It's always been needed. We know what I'm saying. Report an error in the passage at 4:56

5:30 Okay. You know, this is in the spirit of full disclosure. This has been a very difficult talk for me to prepare for. And it's not so much... Report an error in the passage at 5:30

5:45 Yeah, I mean, I don't know us yet, but it's also just that there's a lot of history folded into the situation. And so I've been, I haven't, I really, I kind of drifted in and out of sleep last night and just trying to locate, bodily locate, like dousing almost. Report an error in the passage at 5:45

6:15 I'm trying to locate myself in this situation. What is this situation? For those of you who are new, there may just be our personal history folded into this situation, but there's always every situation. There's always history folded into it. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But this is true for every moment. Report an error in the passage at 6:15

6:41 Every moment. Our entire life brought us to that moment. And so in this particular situation, there's a lot of history of my saṅgha, the Dharma Saṅgha, which I'm speaking through and with and for here, folded in. And we're all very grateful. I know that both Creston Mountains Zen Center and the residents at Johannesulph are. Report an error in the passage at 6:41

7:13 ...online, joining this through the connective medium of Zoom. And this is a kind of important moment for our saṅgha, and I just want to express my profound gratitude to the San Francisco Zen Center, to Green Gulch Farm, to Abbot Jury, and everyone, not just for inviting. Me, and again, part of the, you know, one of the loops, there are several loops that are, as I say, folded in. Report an error in the passage at 7:13

7:53 And it's interesting how what's folded into a situation is kind of invisible, but it's there, and we can either attend to it or not attend to it, but it's usually better to attend to it. So one of the loops that's here is what I just started saying. This is the second attempt of a talk that hasn't been given yet. And that was because my teacher, Baker Roshi, and thank you for being here, four and a half months ago had a stroke on the morning of this talk when I was supposed to give the talk. Report an error in the passage at 7:53

8:37 And so it's a bit of a miracle that we can sit here together. We decided on doing job sharing. My job is to meet the situation and to give some kind of a dharma talk. And his job was to just not have a stroke. Report an error in the passage at 8:37

8:56 At least until 11.20, right? We're doing pretty well. Report an error in the passage at 8:56

9:06 It's interesting, I think we human animals, we like completion or closure. We like when things feel complete. We wouldn't have to. You know, you could imagine minds, sentient minds, that don't require closure. But our minds kind of like closure. I have had the document in which I typed the notes for the talk from four and a half months ago. Report an error in the passage at 9:06

9:38 I had that open. I mean, believe it or not, this is really true. I had the document open on my desktop this entire time. I didn't even shut down my computer. I couldn't. It was impossible. It's like I kept looking at that unfinished sentence, which I was involved with the moment when Beikiroshi suddenly entered my room and very clearly had a stroke. Report an error in the passage at 9:38

10:03 It was obvious. I could see it right away. And so I decided not to attend to the unfinished sentence any further, but to rather attend to half of his face. Hanging down. And so then things went their own course. And Abhijit, thankfully, gave the lecture at that time. I heard from a lot of people, by the way, in our saṅgha, they said, that was the best Zen lecture I've ever heard. Report an error in the passage at 10:03

10:35 I said, well, jeez, thank you, everyone. That's okay. Report an error in the passage at 10:35

10:50 Zen practice has opened Me and my life into worlds that are very different from the world I grew up into. And what I want to talk about today is what that world or these worlds, what they are, how the craft, how practice can open us into these worlds, can open our lives into such worlds. And again, why, at least I think, why I think this is such an important and actually revolutionary act in today's world. Report an error in the passage at 10:50

11:41 That's a lot for 40 minutes and now 25 minutes left. We'll see how much I can do. When I started practicing, I had problems. I had real problems. I started when I was like 17 or 18. And I was a typical case of insomnia due to overthinking, like rumination thinking. I ended up writing my diploma thesis about that. Report an error in the passage at 11:41

12:11 And I just, every night I lied in bed and I couldn't fall asleep. I just could not get myself to slip out of waking consciousness. I was just stuck there. My attention was stuck in that loop. Report an error in the passage at 12:11

12:28 So evening after evening, I spent a lot of time with my thoughts. And what led me into practice in one way to say that is kind of small, unfortunate series of insights, which is that one night I found myself, I got so annoyed by my thinking, and I suddenly found myself outside of it. Looking into it was like a new perspective on my thinking. Report an error in the passage at 12:28

12:58 Before I was in my thinking, oh yeah, this is happening, this is me, I was like in it, identified with it, feeling all the impact of, it was in my case, much of it was always insecurity type thinking, the justifications, the what should I have done better, all that. And suddenly, it was like a leap, I found myself outside of it, looking into it. And I saw, That the situation is worse than I thought. Not only was that thinking unnecessary and boring, but I also realized it's totally unreliable. Report an error in the passage at 12:58

13:44 And I could see yet that I was making all my decisions based on that kind of thinking. All my decisions. And so I got a panic attack. I was like, whoa. I was like 17 or 18 at that time. And I just very simply did the math. It's like if I turn, if I grow old and I can be something like 87 or so, then this means, geez, when I'm in Zazen mind, I can't do math. Report an error in the passage at 13:44

14:15 What does that mean? That's like 70 years, right? 70 years of living in this mind. And I decided that's not an option. I can't do that. And I don't want to build a life based. On this kind of thinking it was so clearly not something I wanted to have anything unfolded from. I mean again it was like just all insecurity and who do other people want me to be and all that. And I could see how much was missing in it. Report an error in the passage at 14:15

14:52 Like for example what do I want? What do I feel good about? It just didn't even have space in the kind of thinking that I was experiencing. And so I looked for help. And that's a long story. I won't go into that right now. But I looked for help, and I ended up in a Zen monastery, which at that time, Johanneshof, our German center, I had no idea what Buddhism was. Report an error in the passage at 14:52

15:18 I had no idea what Zen was. I had no idea what these people were doing. But it was just complete coincidence. That's where I ended up. And it was perfect for me. I mean, one way to, I think, to describe zazen is, or like the simplest zazen instruction is limit yourself to one square meter and then learn how to stay present with yourself. Report an error in the passage at 15:18

15:47 If you really learn that, if we really learn that, how to be fully present within our own experience, yeah, then there's more. Then there's an unfolding that starts including. Much more than just ourselves, that starts including others and otherness, all of it, so-called otherness as non-otherness and so forth. Report an error in the passage at 15:47

16:12 So from that one square meter, a lot can happen from there. And so I did recognize that. I saw when I first arrived at the Zen Center, I saw how just that one square meter, I was so radically thrown into Report an error in the passage at 16:12

16:33 Myself, my own mind, and I had to learn how to deal with it. And I did realize at that time that I wanted to learn how to stay present within my own experience. Report an error in the passage at 16:33

16:45 And pretty early on in my practice, Bekiroshi brought up in a sashin, or I don't know, in some context, he brought up a line from a koan that has worked in me ever since. Report an error in the passage at 16:45

17:02 And that line, some of you may know it, is like a promise. Zen has actually really good marketing. I don't know why we're having such a hard time surviving all the time. But it's a big promise. It's like it says, there is a wish-fulfilling jewel hidden in your sleeve. That's like, I thought that was a great idea. And I wanted that jewel, no matter what. Report an error in the passage at 17:02

17:33 Baker Roshi talked about it, and he had become somebody who I thought, yeah, he tends to make sense, and I trusted what he said. So I said to him, excuse me, I was still in high school at that time, so I was like, excuse me, teacher, are you really saying there is a wish-fulfilling gem in my sleeve? Report an error in the passage at 17:33

17:59 And he looked at me, and he asked, you know, I didn't have robes at that time. So he saw the problem and he said, well, it could be in your pocket, but the point is, it's within your experience. And I looked at him and I said, are you really sure? I need to know this. This is going to make a difference in my life. Are you really sure? Is there a wish-fulfilling gem in my experience? Report an error in the passage at 17:59

18:29 And he looked at me, you know, in one of these ways, sometimes people do that where you just go, and he said, yes. I'm completely sure. So I sat five sashins. Sashins are seven days of sitting, sitting, sitting. I sat five sashins during that year, and I just really mined, like a mine. I mined my experience searching for that jewel. I didn't know, like, you could have told me a little earlier, you know, but later on in that koan, it says, Any monk who's looking for that jewel, I'll hit him right in the face. That would have been important information. But anyways, I didn't mind. Report an error in the passage at 18:29

19:24 I really did. Report an error in the passage at 19:24

19:27 It's only fairly recently that we've revisited that koan. It's been working in me all this time. I looked for it because it sounded true. I kind of felt it. I felt, yeah, I think it's actually true. There is whatever, everything I'm looking for is in the midst of my own experience. I can find it there. I kind of knew it. Report an error in the passage at 19:27

19:51 I wanted it to be true. And I also thought, even if it isn't true, I want to make it true. So that was worth it. And so I actually, I ended up, my idea was when I first came to our German practice center, Johanneshof, my idea was from there to do a world trip. And I didn't end up doing that. I just stayed there. And it's because on that one square meter, I did recognize that I wasn't looking for new things to see. Report an error in the passage at 19:51

20:36 I was looking for a new way to look. And I did understand. That one square meter offers that. It offers that. Right now, we don't. And that's, I think, one of the great promises, teachings, and possibilities within this practice. We can change the architecture of our experience any time, really. Report an error in the passage at 20:36

21:12 To jump a little ahead, maybe, but we know this. like jump a little ahead but bring this in even with regard to all the big suffering and troubles we're facing. Report an error in the passage at 21:12

21:32 of in this world. Some of you may know the great environmentalist Bill McKibben. And he supposedly, I read this and heard Joan Halifax quote it too. Report an error in the passage at 21:32

21:50 When he was asked by people like us, you know, given all the problems in this world, and given how what's causing them is systemic, it's not like it's not one single thing that's causing it. The problem doesn't have an address. It's whole systems that maybe have developed too much of their own agency, of their own life, and it's systems that are. Report an error in the passage at 21:50

22:22 Causing so much injustice, suffering, and destruction, oppression. So given that that's the case, what can I as an individual do? Isn't that a question some of us ask? What can I as an individual do? And Bill McKibben said, stop thinking as an individual. Report an error in the passage at 22:22

22:51 That's what got us into this mess. Report an error in the passage at 22:51

22:57 Change the world immediately. That's not what I'm saying, but I am saying looking at the architecture of our experience and how our thinking, feeling, and actions arise from that fundamental architecture is going to be, and the kind of evolution and revolution that this world will need is going to be, I'm sure of that, a central factor. Report an error in the passage at 22:57

23:28 That we need to attend to looking at really how are we experiencing, not just what are we experiencing, but how is everything that happens, what's the grammar of that, what's the architecture of that, what's the structure of that. And Buddhism says there are other ways to experience this world. Namely, there's the truth of separation, which in Buddhism we think That's not false. We're clearly separate people. It's not false. The point is it's relative. And so practice tells us there's a more fundamental truth, and that more fundamental truth is connectedness, or I don't know, maybe arguably we could say oneness, or maybe just non-otherness. Report an error in the passage at 23:28

24:22 And again, in your talk, Abbot, Jerry, you said, and I love that quote, I hadn't heard it before, maybe it was your quote, I don't know. You said, for every 10,000 people that teach and transmit separation, there's one person who teaches and transmits oneness or connectedness. That's a kind of unfair proportion, but it is interesting how powerful When the feeling of connectedness, the raising of the flower, is transmitted, how powerful that is. Report an error in the passage at 24:22

25:09 We're all sitting here, whether we know it or not, part of the history folded into the situation. We're all sitting here because of Suzuki Roshi's presence. Report an error in the passage at 25:09

25:19 It's still reverberating through this world. It's still causing things to happen. Even if we've never met him. Some people here have met him. Baker Roshi definitely has. And has joined his life with his life. That's a big deal. And so the presence, just the presence, the feeling of entering another person's presence when it actually transmits a feeling of non-otherness, that can be the most powerful thing we'll ever know. Report an error in the passage at 25:19

26:07 Yeah, so there's this other truth in Buddhism, the truth of non-separation. And given the time, I want to make a kind of shortcut to, like, but then how can we experience that? How can we enter that truth, not just know about it, but what would it be like to feel that? You know, I do always a short little practice involving the only thing I have at hand, which happens to be my hand. Report an error in the passage at 26:07

26:38 And I'd like to invite you to imagine right now, just like in your mind, to imagine if I was to ask you, please draw your hand, what would that picture look like? Just imagine. If you were drawing, you have a little mind piece of paper, what does that drawing look like? Take a moment. Report an error in the passage at 26:38

27:08 Has everyone kind of drawn a hand? Good. So I was amused this morning. I drew, again, I've done this a lot. I've drawn my hand and my mind, and even in my mind, it looks like the hand of a five-year-old. Like I can't imagine. It's like as if my imagination knows that I just can't draw. So it's like... Report an error in the passage at 27:08

27:33 But just to check in here, what you've drawn, does that have like five fingers and look? Pretty much like the hand, like that. Yeah, yeah, good. So now let me invite you to, and you can, for those of you who are experimental and adventurous, you can maybe even lift up your hand and not just have it on your lap. Report an error in the passage at 27:33

27:59 If you lift up your hand or wherever you have it. And now, probably better to close your eyes. Bring attention into your hand. Report an error in the passage at 27:59

28:11 Just feel your hand. Report an error in the passage at 28:11

28:17 You know, feel the... Palm of your hand. Report an error in the passage at 28:17

28:27 Explore in your own pace each of your fingers with your attention and just feel them. Report an error in the passage at 28:27

28:40 Feel the feeling of feeling the hand. If Report an error in the passage at 28:40

28:57 I was to ask you to draw that feeling, again on your imaginary piece of paper, if you were drawing the feeling of your hand, what your hand feels like, take a moment to imagine. Report an error in the passage at 28:57

29:19 If that feeling translates into something visual, if not, then just stay with the feeling itself. And Report an error in the passage at 29:19

29:37 let me ask you again, is that the same kind of drawing or does that drawing look different? Who says it looks different? Can I see hands? Oh, that's like everyone. Almost, almost. Does it still have five fingers? Many people are shaking. I've done a lot of statistics around that. Report an error in the passage at 29:37

30:02 The great majority does not have five fingers in their felt hand. From a Buddhist point of view, that's a different hand. Report an error in the passage at 30:02

30:14 Because from a Buddhist point of view, we're not looking at some idea of an objective, out there world. But we're looking at the truth of our experience. And if our experience shifts, if the experience differs, It's a different thing, a different experiential thing. It's a different hand. That thought actually has quite a bit of consequence. Report an error in the passage at 30:14

30:46 You may also have noticed, just by feeling your hand, did you notice lots of things happening in there? Like, did it change all the time? Was it hard to grasp anything and hold on to it as like, oh yeah, that's what it feels like, that's the hand. Just kept moving around, right? As soon as we direct our attention into our immediate sensorial experience, there's change. Wild. Report an error in the passage at 30:46

31:15 I mean, this was very simple, right? As soon as we direct our attention into our immediate sensorial experience, there is change. Report an error in the passage at 31:15

31:28 It's how we keep putting concepts on top of that wild, interactive, changing thing. That is really going on. That solidifies stuff. As if our hand always had five fingers. In our actual experience, there's a lot more going on than just that. Report an error in the passage at 31:28

31:52 So, you know, there's a Buddhist teaching called the three worlds, the tree datu, which I find articulates the point of this really well. It says that, you know, there's karma datu. And that I'm making this just formulaic. We could go, we could spend whole months, years on each of these, but just as a formula. Report an error in the passage at 31:52

32:18 Karma Dato, the way I would describe it just in English words, is the truth of, or the world in which each of us lives as a personal self, with our name, with our identity, with our biography. In an outside world, in an out there world. The world is out there, I'm in here, I'm Nicole, I don't know who you are, but we're here. Report an error in the passage at 32:18

32:42 It sounds, I'm also a psychologist, not really, but I did study that. And from that point of view, that sounds sane. If somebody said, that's how I experience the world, I would think, okay, you're fine. Report an error in the passage at 32:42

32:58 It's a personal self in an outside world. From the Buddhist point of view, that's just one world. And here's a subtle point. It's a world. It's not just an experience. It's conceived as a world, as a so-called experiential horizon. Report an error in the passage at 32:58

33:17 It's a structure within our experience. But we could... There are two more worlds that we have to go through here. One we just did. There's another world called Rupadhatu. And that is the way, again, if I was to put it in a formula and contrast it with a personal self in an outer world, I would say Rupadhatu is the feeling body in a living world, the sentient feeling body in a living world. Report an error in the passage at 33:17

33:53 Now, that's one way to say what each of us is right now. The only person I know by name here right now is Norman. Yes, you're Norman, but you're also feeling body in the living world. Oh no, I know more people by name, sorry. Ape, also feeling body. Linda, feeling body in a living world. And that's much more, to say it that way, is much more like the hand. Report an error in the passage at 33:53

34:31 Bringing our attention. What that does, what a formula framing like that does, is it can direct our attention in a certain way. Almost like I oftentimes describe it metaphorically. It's like a circuit. And attention is like the electricity in that circuit. So you can learn how to plug your attention into the circuit of the feeling sentient body in a living world. And explore what's relevant to the feeling body. Report an error in the passage at 34:31

35:01 It's not the same that's relevant to the personal self. The feeling body cares about other things. And you can explore that an entire lifetime. And the tree Datu in the three worlds, I would call that an experience of Rūpa Datu or suchness. The way I'm doing a year-long program and the principles, at least for me, that I'm exploring right now is... Report an error in the passage at 35:01

35:29 You could practice if you wanted to plug your attention into that circuit in a more sustainable way. The way I say that, it's like shifting your primary address, like your home address, right? Most of us are taught to live in our personal identity. That's our primary address. That's where all our mail goes, tax declarations and bills and letters. Report an error in the passage at 35:29

35:55 But we can move. It's just a long process. Everyone who's moved knows it's a long process. And so you can move into rupadhatu, into primarily being a feeling body in a living world. And you would experience fundamentally, experience yourself differently. And it's a different world. It's not an outer world. Report an error in the passage at 35:55

36:19 Now it's a living world. Report an error in the passage at 36:19

36:23 And yeah, so the... Principles, I'm just naming them right now, but if you wanted to learn how to sustain your attention as a feeling body, what I'd recommend is pay a lot of attention to gravity. Report an error in the passage at 36:23

36:40 It's always there. Just gravity, how gravity is present in the body. Pay a lot of attention to centering. I'm just calling it centering, how to center your attention. And pay a lot of attention to... Space as a connective medium. I'll stop in a moment. Space as a connective medium. And that's what we're doing right now, and just engaging in the situation. Report an error in the passage at 36:40

37:10 There can be a feeling of creating the situation together. Report an error in the passage at 37:10

37:19 I do have to, for the sake of completion, as I said, we human animals, we like closure and completion. I do have to do the third world. I'm very sorry for the timing. The third one is called arupadhatu. Again, if I had to give it a formula, I would say it's the world of formless presence. And again, as a shortcut, if you go back to your hand and the hand feeling, you're feeling your hand, but also now I'd invite you, let your hand feel the space around the hand. Report an error in the passage at 37:19

37:54 Let your hand feel the space around your hand. Report an error in the passage at 37:54

38:09 Let your hand Receive, receive the space around your hand. And Report an error in the passage at 38:09

38:26 now I'd invite you to let the space around your hand receive your hand. Let the space receive your hand. Report an error in the passage at 38:26

38:43 Just kind of let that happen. Release your hand and trust your hand to the space around your hand. And Report an error in the passage at 38:43

38:56 see what that feels like. Report an error in the passage at 38:56

39:07 Just a quick check in here. Is that, if you were to draw that, does that look different than the second or it looks the same? Different, different. Report an error in the passage at 39:07

39:18 That's a third hand. It's a third world. World of formless presence. Our hands are, when we sit on Zazen, our hands are, you know, they're very, they are these wild animals. They have all this agency. Really wild animals receiving, giving all this time. And there's... Sitting here very calmly, like tamed hands, but they could do so much. They have all this potential right here. Report an error in the passage at 39:18

39:48 So much potential of what the hands could do, what this whole body, this whole being could do. All this potential is woven into what I would call the world of formless presence. Report an error in the passage at 39:48

40:03 And without going much deeper into it, but just to say the world of formless presence, I don't know, just the magic or mystery of it is that if you've ever had an experience of how something that's not there or somebody who's gone or how you can feel their presence and their absence, you can feel it's through their absence that you can feel their presence. Report an error in the passage at 40:03

40:37 For me, that really hit home after Baker Roshi's stroke when I said, I was in the emergency room and I went through all these memories of moments that I didn't know if he was going to survive. And I went through all these moments of memories, this moment, this moment. But then there was one image that arose, which was I suddenly saw, you know, we had planned our trip back to Germany together. Report an error in the passage at 40:37

41:05 And in that plan, he was going to sit next to me on the airplane. And suddenly this image arose where I saw the empty seat next to me. And that broke my heart. That was like, luckily he's fine now, so my heart is back together. No worries. But it's like it was in the absence, the presence of his absence, that it wasn't one particular memory. Report an error in the passage at 41:05

41:31 It was like everything this particular relationship is for me. was there in that empty seat, all of it at once. Not one particular, but all of it at once. That's formless presence, something like that. And it's for each of us. We can bring this awareness, each of us. Everything we meet could be... Someday it will be the last time we're meeting it. Report an error in the passage at 41:31

41:58 And that presence brings appreciation, and this appreciation we want to bring back into our feeling body and from our feeling body. body into our personal selves and if we do that I do think we will treat this world a little better and each other and even ourselves Report an error in the passage at 41:58

42:17 That was the crash way to end this lecture. Anything you should have taken. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. Report an error in the passage at 42:17

42:46 For more information, visit sfzc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma. Report an error in the passage at 42:46