What is the Middle Way?

0:00 Okay, so Venerable Upekkhā or Ayya Upekkhā is also both of us have grown up as monastics together. We ordained. I mean, I became bhikkhunis together 10 years ago at the same time and been practicing together as well for a long time in Dhammasara. And Venerable comes from time to time to Santi to help us out. So it's really nice to have her here with us. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:29 And so we thought it's nice to give a dharma teaching today together like a co-teaching. So I would like to invite Ayya Upekkhā to get started with this very beautiful topic proposed by one of our supporters or friends or who's in the group on the middle path. So on to you and Rebecca. Rebecca, over to you. Report an error in the passage at 0:29 Highlight the passage at 0:29

0:57 So when Venerable Karunika, we were sitting across each other, looking over our computers as monastics do, and said, oh, you know, someone suggested a topic for us, a topic for today on the middle way. Report an error in the passage at 0:57 Highlight the passage at 0:57

1:20 What do you think? So, so well. The first thing I thought about was what our doctor said a couple of weeks ago was that I follow the middle way. I don't eat too many ice creams. Report an error in the passage at 1:20 Highlight the passage at 1:20

1:50 I don't eat ice cream every day. I only eat ice cream a couple of times a week because the Buddha taught the middle way. And so I don't have too many ice creams. I have just the right amount of ice cream. That is my middle way. This is what came to mind when Ayya Karunika laughed because she had the same problem. Report an error in the passage at 1:50 Highlight the passage at 1:50

2:13 Not about the middle path, but about the ice cream. so So, and I remember, you know, like, this is like such a, like a really, my grandfather used to say this as well, you know, the Buddha taught the middle way of not following. Two extremes, you have to do what is the middle path for you. You know, go for, don't sleep too much, sleep the right amount. Report an error in the passage at 2:13 Highlight the passage at 2:13

2:44 Don't eat too many ice creams. Okay, not ice creams, but eat the right amount of ice creams for you. So this is what I remember growing up at what people thought the middle way was. It's not having too many indulgences and not being too harsh. So, I'm wondering how many other people also have this very, you know, lovely idea about the middle way. Report an error in the passage at 2:44 Highlight the passage at 2:44

3:15 Because what it means is that we don't push ourselves too much. We are not too hard on ourselves, but we don't indulge either. but so um so I'm wondering, don't we redefine our middle way to suit ourselves? Exactly. Basically, we choose our middle way that is comfortable for us. Basically, so we can have a lovely existence that is just what the Buddha taught, the middle way where we are comfortable. Report an error in the passage at 3:15 Highlight the passage at 3:15

3:58 So, well, this is not. Comfortable. Report an error in the passage at 3:58 Highlight the passage at 3:58

4:02 This is tragically sorry, but this is not what the Buddha called the middle way. And yes, so the first time the Buddha talked about the middle way was his first discourse to the five ascetics. You probably all know about the Dhammacakkha Sutta, where the Buddha speaks for the first time to his five... Report an error in the passage at 4:02 Highlight the passage at 4:02

4:31 companions who had been practicing what was common at that time which was to to what was obviously you know people believed was the way to enlightenment was to mortify well you know torture your body to eat little to sleep little to stand on one leg eat one grain of rice Report an error in the passage at 4:31 Highlight the passage at 4:31

5:01 Too fast and to this day actually that's there's something in all of us that thinks that this sort of if we deny ourselves then that is a practice that is the way out of suffering you know we'll just hurt ourselves a little bit and then you know I feel quite holy then. Anyways, so that's who he was speaking to when he first talked about the middle way. And so remembering that audience and remembering that context, the Buddha first introduced this idea of the middle way. Report an error in the passage at 5:01 Highlight the passage at 5:01

5:47 And in particular, He was referring to the middle way, which was not following two paths. These two paths, which he called extremes. The extreme of torturing yourselves, which is what was a common practice. And the other common practice, which tragically all of us who eat only one ice cream a week fall into, which is the path of... Report an error in the passage at 5:47 Highlight the passage at 5:47

6:22 Finding happiness in the sense world, the world of the five senses, which is where all of us are trying to find happiness, and which is where people at that time were also trying to find happiness. So what the Buddha was talking about when he talked about the middle way is not following these two parts, which is what everybody, most of us are trying to find happiness in, either in, you know, Seeing things beautiful, you know, having a comfortable life and also of trying to sort of torture our way out of our suffering. Report an error in the passage at 6:22 Highlight the passage at 6:22

7:02 So avoiding, not going down these two paths, the Buddha said, I teach you the middle way, not the middle of those two paths. hearts, but Report an error in the passage at 7:02 Highlight the passage at 7:02

7:18 What is defined as the noble eightfold path, very specifically the noble eightfold path, and that noble eightfold path is not the middle of those two paths. It is very specifically the path leading to enlightenment, the path leading to understanding non-self. So understanding the nature of this existence and yeah. Report an error in the passage at 7:18 Highlight the passage at 7:18

8:00 To the ending of suffering. To the ending of suffering. It's very specific. It's a very specific path, the noble eightfold path. So yeah, following those eightfold steps is what is referred, what is. What is the middle way? Of course, there is a lot to be said about that. In fact, the entire teaching. So, okay, then I'll pass it on to Venerable Karika. Report an error in the passage at 8:00 Highlight the passage at 8:00

8:30 She can do the rest. Okay. Okay. Because you started, I mean, you brought the conversation and clarified the fact that in everybody's pursuit of happiness and peace, We are trying to look for it with me existing with this body and searching for happiness and peace mainly in the body aspects as well, right? Report an error in the passage at 8:30 Highlight the passage at 8:30

9:02 Like sensual indulgences. I mean, of course, there is a mind aspect but related with this me and with my craving trying to look for something either in the sensual world Or in the ascetic practice, but the Buddha says, happiness and peace is found when this me, which is a delusion, is gone. And when the craving comes to an end. Because all those two things, which is called kamasukhalikanu yoga, which is the sensual happiness, looking for the pleasures, is still a wanting, based on wanting, trying to find. Report an error in the passage at 9:02 Highlight the passage at 9:02

9:41 Atta Kilamata Anu Yoga also still wanting to do this ascetic practice still based on me here wanting something and pursuing peace. The Buddha says both of those because there is a me and craving is not leading to the ending of suffering and those of us who know who has indulged in the sensual world this is the most common one for most of us we know we Being there, done, they've done so many things. There's no end to it, isn't it? Are we happy yet? Are we peaceful yet? Yeah, there is gratification in those sensual pleasures, in pursuing those things. Report an error in the passage at 9:41 Highlight the passage at 9:41

10:22 Yet, it's never satisfying. They are not satiable. They are insatiable. There's no end to insatiable. These things. So for the next, for the next, for the next, we are looking and still suffering, even though there is gratification. So that's why the Buddha said not to follow that line. There is no end to it and peace cannot be found. What you find, anything is nothing but more trouble. We also know that, right? The more and more we look in that direction, all what we reap is a lot more, a heap of suffering. Report an error in the passage at 10:22 Highlight the passage at 10:22

10:55 And of course, the Atta Kilamata Anu Yoga, which is giving torture, is directly a lot of So suffering in pursuit of happiness and really hardly any gratification there, but they hope for something in the next life, which doesn't happen as well. So this is where the Buddha talks about this middle part. But I want to read out something really beautiful. That is, which one is it? Report an error in the passage at 10:55 Highlight the passage at 10:55

11:23 This comes up in Sangita Nikaya, Connected Discourses, Chapter 12, that is on the Nidana Sangita on Causality, Sutta No. 65, called The City. I'm not going to read the whole Sutta, but I want to read out a beautiful extract from it, what the Buddha says about finding the middle way. Report an error in the passage at 11:23 Highlight the passage at 11:23

11:50 The Buddha says, suppose because there was a oh sorry Okay, Report an error in the passage at 11:50 Highlight the passage at 11:50

12:00 suppose Bhikkhus, a man wandering through a forest, would see an ancient path, an ancient road traveled upon by people in the past. He would follow it and would see an ancient city, an ancient capital that had been inhabited by people in the past with parks, Sorry. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 12:00 Highlight the passage at 12:00

12:24 groves, ponds and ramparts, a delightful place. Then the man would inform the king or a royal minister, sire, know that while wandering through the forest, I saw an ancient path, an ancient road traveled upon by people in the past. I followed it and saw an ancient city, an ancient capital that had been inhabited by people in the past. Report an error in the passage at 12:24 Highlight the passage at 12:24

12:55 With parks, groves, ponds and ramparts, a delightful place. Renovate that city, sire. Then the king or the royal minister would renovate the city and sometime later that city would become successful and prosperous, well populated, filled with people, attained to growth and expansion. So too Bhikkhus, I saw the ancient path, the ancient road traveled by the perfectly enlightened ones of the past, that is all the previous Buddhas. Report an error in the passage at 12:55 Highlight the passage at 12:55

13:30 And what is that ancient path, that ancient road? It is just this noble eightfold path, that is right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood. Right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration or right stillness. I followed that path and by doing so, I have directly known aging and death, its origin, its cessation and the way leading to its cessation. Report an error in the passage at 13:30 Highlight the passage at 13:30

14:08 I have directly known births. I have directly known existence, clinging. craving, feeling, contact, the six sense bases, name and form and consciousness, volitional formations, their origin, their cessation and the way leading to their cessation. Having directly known them, I have explained them to the bhikkhus, the bhikkhunis, the male lay followers and the female lay followers, this holy life bhikkhus. Report an error in the passage at 14:08 Highlight the passage at 14:08

14:43 Has become successful and prosperous, extended, popular, widespread, well-proclaimed among devas and humans. Quite a beautiful, I really like this one about the ancient path and its comparison to an ancient city and stuff, but what the Buddha is saying, so he discovered this noble eightfold path, but where does it lead to? Report an error in the passage at 14:43 Highlight the passage at 14:43

15:10 It leads to understanding the causality, dependent origination. So this is where before the time of the Buddha, the people went wrong because they did not understand the causality, how things arise with condition, right? So there were two extreme views at the time. time of the Buddha or before the time of the Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 15:10 Highlight the passage at 15:10

15:34 And one part of the people thought everything exists and exists forever. That is the eternal view. And then those are the people who also believe that after you die, either you go to heaven or hell and then you last there forever. And then there was the... the other view the opposite one that was the analyst view And that is thinking that, you know, once there is a sense of self and once that sense of self is sort of extinguished or annihilated, then everything finishes and there is no existence or non-existence pretty much. Report an error in the passage at 15:34 Highlight the passage at 15:34

16:13 This session is not going to be enough to go into this very deep philosophical kind of thing. It is beyond our time here together. But just to mention that there was these two extreme views and this is where people were trying to look for ending of suffering. suffering and, and by, but, but. For all of them, they had the permanent essence, the permanent essence either that lasted forever or a permanent essence that got destroyed. Report an error in the passage at 16:13 Highlight the passage at 16:13

16:47 So there was that wrong view, wrong understanding and also having that agency within, there was that craving to end or craving to end suffering, the craving to look for peace and happiness. So this is where those two views and then these two paths were going wrong. So what the Buddha discovered by following the Noble Eightfold Path is the dependent origination. That was what he awakened to at the night of his awakening. Report an error in the passage at 16:47 Highlight the passage at 16:47

17:18 This is one of his knowledges. He understood because he asked the question, because all this suffering, where is this suffering coming from? This is going backwards in this very deep teaching. And this is when he asked the question. Where is suffering coming from? He realized the suffering is there because we are born. And where is birth coming from? Report an error in the passage at 17:18 Highlight the passage at 17:18

17:46 Birth is coming from because there is existence. Where did existence come from? Existence comes from because we were clinging to things. We were desiring things. We were holding on to things. That gives us existence into a certain form of being. And where is the clinging coming from? Clinging is coming from? Report an error in the passage at 17:46 Highlight the passage at 17:46

18:07 Where did the craving come from? Craving came from feeling. Feeling is coming from contact. Contact is from sense basis and sense basis goes to name and form into consciousness and into the volitional formations and to Now again, this is a very deep doctrinal teaching, which we have covered at other times, but which we can cover another time. Report an error in the passage at 18:07 Highlight the passage at 18:07

18:38 So I'm again not going into detail, but the whole point I'm mentioning it here is to see the dependent nature of the arising of our suffering. So when you see that suffering is causally arisen, There is a nutriment for the arising of our suffering. And when the cause is taken away, the suffering comes to an end. This is how it is done. Report an error in the passage at 18:38 Highlight the passage at 18:38

19:01 So part of that is the delusion, the idea that there is somebody here. And another aspect of that is craving. So those are part of the dependent origination. And that is what is causing the suffering in us. Think about it for a moment. All of our suffering. And the Buddha said, The first noble truth is the discovery that there is unsatisfactoriness or there is suffering in the world. Report an error in the passage at 19:01 Highlight the passage at 19:01

19:29 Because for many people, even they are so immersed in suffering, but don't realize they are suffering. This is also true for some people. Only some people wake up and suddenly realize, wow, there is a lot of suffering. Is there something I can do? So that is when they start to search. So the second noble truth says the cause for suffering. The cause for suffering is craving. What are these cravings? Report an error in the passage at 19:29 Highlight the passage at 19:29

19:58 Craving for the sensual world or the sensual pleasures, craving to exist or craving to non-exist, that annihilation, to kill or destroy an existing essence. So all these three cravings is what is the root of our sufferings. So you can just relate to it, reflect back and see how craving brings about all forms of suffering, even starting with not being able to have an ice cream, even from something small like that into all forms of suffering, right? Report an error in the passage at 19:58 Highlight the passage at 19:58

20:36 All subtle forms of sufferings. And then the third noble truth says that very ending of that craving, that is the ending of That is Nibbāna, that is enlightenment. So this is how it is done. Because there is a cause, there is a condition, when that is ended, then there is peace. So this is why the two extremes are abandoned and a middle path has been discovered by the Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 20:36 Highlight the passage at 20:36

21:10 And also, it is interesting to reflect and see the... That in other suttas, it's not just only the Noble Eightfold Path. Now, if you want to look at numerical discourses, chapter number three, sutta number 156, 57, up to 162, you would say that middle path that he discovered. Report an error in the passage at 21:10 Highlight the passage at 21:10

21:41 In fact, includes all of the 37 factors for enlightenment called 37 Bodhi Pakya Dhammas. Starting from the right efforts, the effort to do wholesome and abandon unwholesome. And even the Satipaṭṭhāna practice, the practice of... Report an error in the passage at 21:41 Highlight the passage at 21:41

22:05 Just mentioned like that. So all of that is also mentioned because all of those, cultivating all of those, what does it lead to? It leads to understanding the way how the suffering is coming to be. It is conditionally a result. So this is what is so beautiful. When you take away the condition, suffering comes to an end. Report an error in the passage at 22:05 Highlight the passage at 22:05

22:30 So this is what I hope is becoming clear. What the middle path is and Venerable Upekkhā very beautifully clarified the misconceptions of many of us for a long time thinking being Buddhists we are practicing the middle path in this way of you know finding that right amount right amount well there is a place for that but it is not called the middle path yeah because there is a way because you know of course when we are existing we have a body This is our old karma, right? So we are already born. And we have to deal with this body and this mind. And we have to give it its conducive conditions. Report an error in the passage at 22:30 Highlight the passage at 22:30

23:16 Just the right amount only. Otherwise you go into indulgences. So this is why we still have to eat. We still have to have clothes. We still have to have a place to stay. We still need to have some medicines. These are our basic needs called four requisites for monastics. And for anybody else also, these are the very basic four things that we need to survive, to look after this body. Report an error in the passage at 23:16 Highlight the passage at 23:16

23:42 So in there, of course, in the gradual training and many other places, the Buddha says how to use these things. So in moderation, what is appropriate and what is conducive. So at a time... Report an error in the passage at 23:42 Highlight the passage at 23:42

23:56 If you've been doing lots of work, you might need to eat a bit more at a time when you have not been doing very much. You may not need to eat so much. So even the lot, everything, just the very basic and with the right kind of reflection. So for the monastics, for example, the way to eat is not for fun, not for pleasure, not for beautification, you know, all of those, not for fattening, not for all of those, only for the maintenance and nourishment of this body we eat what is suitable. Report an error in the passage at 23:56 Highlight the passage at 23:56

24:26 So if you have any health conditions, eat what is that is suitable that has been offered. Of course, as monastics, we can't really go and buy. But, you know, people sometimes offer and then you use what is helpful. So there is something like that to find the right amount of sleep. Even this is coming in the gradual training. So the gradual training, the Buddha talks about these things. Report an error in the passage at 24:26 Highlight the passage at 24:26

24:51 so not to sleep too much the Buddha says not to eat too much not to socialize too much So it's not too much, but of course you have to eat, you have to sleep, there is time and place where you need to engage with other people, all of that is there, but then you find, but how do you find what is right? Report an error in the passage at 24:51 Highlight the passage at 24:51

25:10 Because this is, I suppose, what the person asked when they wanted this middle path rather than the Noble Eightfold Path is how to sort of manage oneself. And this is what we have been discussing as well. And this is an important, very practical point. While we don't call it the middle path, but this is the right, the gradual training, we can say. Report an error in the passage at 25:10 Highlight the passage at 25:10

25:31 I mean, gradual training is part of the middle path, but how do you do it? So like we were discussing, so whatever you do, See when you do that, whether your wholesome states are increasing, unwholesome states are decreasing, then that would be the right amount. But when you do that, if your unwholesome mind states are increasing, wholesome mind states are decreasing, then we have to adjust it. Report an error in the passage at 25:31 Highlight the passage at 25:31

25:59 That's either too much or too little. Now, for example, take sleep. I'm sure every one of you would have had a day where you have overslept too much like many hours and really indulge in sleep and how did you feel when you wake up actually you don't feel so well not energetic you feel lethargic and lazy because overslept and of course most people Not sleep enough. Sleep deprivation is a very common problem and a cause for many issues in the world, problems and diseases in the world. Report an error in the passage at 25:59 Highlight the passage at 25:59

26:35 So lack of sleep. Again, you feel tired, not energetic. Ayya Upekkhā are on retreat, when you're meditating much, actually you don't need much sleep. Even four hours is enough. Sometimes between four to six hours is more than enough and you feel very fresh. And other times when you have been busy having to do lots of stuff, then the body may need more sleep or the body is fighting sickness. Report an error in the passage at 26:35 Highlight the passage at 26:35

27:28 So like that, it's hard to tell this is the right amount. And to each individual, it depends. Everybody's Ayya Upekkhā You need to figure out by constantly investigating. You can do the reflection, reflect back at least and see how was it? I overslept or underslept, overrate or underrate. Again, different. Difficult to know how much is the right amount straight away. Report an error in the passage at 27:28 Highlight the passage at 27:28

27:55 So you have to have awareness as you eat and awareness about your sleep habits, awareness about many other things, you know. Exercise doesn't come up as a teaching because at the time of the Buddha, everybody had to walk. There were no cars. There were only horse carts and stuff. Only the rich people had. So vast majority of people, including all the monks and nuns, mostly walked. So they had plenty of exercise. But these days we are couch potatoes. Report an error in the passage at 27:55 Highlight the passage at 27:55

28:24 also we sit in front of a computer so then we also need to know what is the right amount of exercise for the body human bodies need that yeah otherwise Meditation is hard. Otherwise, cultivation of the path is really difficult. So this is, even though not called as the middle path, this is finding what is right so that the wholesome mind state starts to grow and wholesome must go down. Report an error in the passage at 28:24 Highlight the passage at 28:24

28:51 Even the meditation goes well because certain kind of food, when you eat, your digestion is... Struggling. Then you know, okay, you know, this is difficult. Then I can't sit so long. I'm a bit more restless. But I mean, certain foods have effects. I don't know. I recently heard. Did you know the effect of durian? Not just the smell, not just the gas. Apparently durian is an aphrodisiac. Report an error in the passage at 28:51 Highlight the passage at 28:51

29:19 Yeah. So if you don't know, you know now. Yeah. So certain foods you eat and certain desires will come up. Not because of anything else, simply because of the food. But maybe probably a little bit wouldn't do much. But if you really like durian and ate a whole durian and ate over much, of course you can expect. Report an error in the passage at 29:19 Highlight the passage at 29:19

29:41 You can't go and meditate after that. So this is how we become a bit alert and aware and find out. If our path, practicing of this noble eightfold path is important to us, and then how do I take care of my body? How do I take care of my mind? What is the middle, the right amount for me at that time? Again, with, you know, for the lay people or for us as well, if you're doing that, you know, time on the screen, time on the computer. Report an error in the passage at 29:41 Highlight the passage at 29:41

30:14 All of those things, the time that you talk and the time in seclusion. But seclusion is so important. The Buddha says the whole of the Noble Eightfold Path and in fact all of the 37 Bodhipakya Dhammas, the factors for enlightenment, are to be developed based on four foundations. Report an error in the passage at 30:14 Highlight the passage at 30:14

30:34 What are these four foundations? Report an error in the passage at 30:34 Highlight the passage at 30:34

30:40 So viveka, seclusion, seclusion of the body and seclusion of the mind is very essential. So how do we find our middle way of doing things is what is conducive to finding that seclusion. Do you work overly much or do you work enough? Foundations, we wake nisita, we rāga nisita, we roda Report an error in the passage at 30:40 Highlight the passage at 30:40

31:01 Okay, this is good enough now. And you also need to find the time to go and sit, to be away and stop. Yeah, so this is how we need to. So it's a constant practice, even though that's not the middle way, that is being skillful way of guiding ourselves on the path. finding the conducive way because sometimes you see especially monastics and unfortunately but maybe lay people too become very idealistic about their path yeah about the monastic life even and they really give themselves a really hard time yeah try to do things that are difficult and actually end up getting sick we hear about monastics who have to end up going to double knee surgery right because sitting too much when the body couldn't handle it or in a way that is not helpful for for the body and all kinds of problems by trying to not becoming aware and doing these things again doing a little bit of yoga awesome just sleeping overly much indulging the little bit of egg the little bit of cold have to do something so it's just that so it's fine in that balance but of course Ajahn Brahm always says if you have to decide just err a little bit on the on the more pleasurable side not the suffering side because when the suffering gets too much then everything else becomes much worse but not to go too much in this side either but you need to see when i do this What's the result? How is my meditation at the end? How do I feel in the body and the mind? And then it's a whole investigation, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 31:01 Highlight the passage at 31:01

32:50 What would you like to add? This is our favorite topic. We have many conversations about this. Years of conversations. Years of conversations. About sleeping too much, eating too much, working too much, sitting in front of the computer too long. Exactly, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 32:50 Highlight the passage at 32:50

33:09 Yeah, it's like a, you Report an error in the passage at 33:09 Highlight the passage at 33:09

33:17 know, it's like such a trap. Yes. Such a trap because we really just want to be comfortable at the end of the day. And we end up, you know, stuck in that sense world because we're just basically trying to keep our bodies comfortable and our lives comfortable and continuing. Report an error in the passage at 33:17 Highlight the passage at 33:17

33:44 In our existence. And it's getting harder and harder in the modern world as well, isn't it? Because we have so many things on offer, available. So it becomes hard because of course the departments are there and they tell us little stories, right? You got to have just this much. It's actually okay. It's actually the right amount for you. Report an error in the passage at 33:44 Highlight the passage at 33:44

34:05 So, you know, we have to tackle our cunning defilements as well. This is the problem in trying to do this. So what we have to do, I suppose, is you just try what seems reasonable. It may be unreasonable, but what you think at the time or what even the defilements think. Try it out. Learn from mistakes. And they say, okay, mind, you told me to do this. I did that. Look what happens. So next time I should not do this. Report an error in the passage at 34:05 Highlight the passage at 34:05

34:36 I'm not going to fall into that trap. So I suppose that kind of awareness, that is where the mindfulness and clear comprehension, sati and sampajanya is so very helpful. Because if you don't have that awareness, you just get trapped and go for years. Without realizing, I mean, there are traps of meditation stages. Not the right way, yeah? Because people sometimes, without putting in the right foundations, without doing in the right way, they just sit down, they let go. Report an error in the passage at 34:36 Highlight the passage at 34:36

35:10 But what they let go, they let go of their mindfulness and everything. And they try to shut down everything. a way of pain overcoming suffering like asanya not perceiving yeah not falling asleep yeah falling asleep or shutting down yeah even sometimes the awareness is there but they're shutting down not perceiving asanya so doing that you come into a place that is like it seems like no suffering is there because you're not perceiving anything and you feel like comfortable and nice But what is really important to understand, this is what the Buddha says, about suffering is to be understood. Not suffering is to be destroyed in that way. Report an error in the passage at 35:10 Highlight the passage at 35:10

35:57 Suffering is to be understood. And that is when the suffering comes to an end. Parinyeya. Parinyeya. yeah, yeah, not not not to. So to remember that we need to have that awareness. Suffering is to be paced sometimes and that is when you will have the insights. Not running away and pushing it aside. That will be again like nihilistic attitudes or views of doing meditation. Report an error in the passage at 35:57 Highlight the passage at 35:57

36:26 But the thing is sometimes if you don't wake up, if you don't do the reflection, that pacha vekkana. That is why every time we do a guided meditation, we have that habit of how was it? How do I feel now? How did the meditation go? Reflecting back, looking back, how did things happen? And then you can see whether you meditated in the right way or the wrong way, or whether you got into some form of Because these are also nice, pleasurable, cool places where we like to go and spend hours. But awakening is not possible in these places, but they become also indulgences in some ways. Report an error in the passage at 36:26 Highlight the passage at 36:26

37:06 So everywhere, not just in the sensual world, but even in our meditative world, we have to find and not get trapped. And our defilements telling, oh, this is nice, this is good, this is the right way, but constantly, constantly bringing up right view and then reflecting back. And see whether is this in line with what the Buddha says. Is my overall suffering ending? Or does all that suffering comes back when I come back of meditation? Report an error in the passage at 37:06 Highlight the passage at 37:06

37:37 Is insights coming up in my mind? Because this is important. Of course insights come, deep insights come after deep meditation. But even after you become, even the hindrances go down a certain degree, small insights still come up. And that's still helpful. That still brings peace. So this is how we also guide ourselves in our meditation, finding that middle way of doing the meditation, not the middle path, but middle way of finding how to navigate through our meditation, navigate through our spiritual journey, navigate through life pretty much in the right way. Report an error in the passage at 37:37 Highlight the passage at 37:37

38:18 What's the right thing? Because we always have a choice, but we forget that we have a choice. And our habits kick in. And the habits usually are rooted in our defilements, our sense of self and craving. And then we always end up making, mostly make up and doing, you know, things that are unskillful, harmful, not useful. Report an error in the passage at 38:18 Highlight the passage at 38:18

38:44 So to remember that we have a choice every moment. with as we receive the world as we hold the world as we respond to the world so make it a response not a reaction reactions are habitual based for eons in in the palmers so this is really really interesting and um since we have a little bit of time uh i will also mention that um this very interesting sutta that. Report an error in the passage at 38:44 Highlight the passage at 38:44

39:19 Okay, Report an error in the passage at 39:19 Highlight the passage at 39:19

39:29 so this is from, again, Samyutta Nikaya, chapter 42, Sutta number 12, very interesting one, called Rasya. So, then Rasya, the headman, approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat to one side, and said to him, Venerable Sir, I have heard the ascetic Gautama criticizes all austerity. He categorically blames and reviles any ascetic who leads a rough life. Report an error in the passage at 39:29 Highlight the passage at 39:29

40:11 Do those who speak thus, venerable sir, state what has been said by the blessed one and not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact? Do they explain in accordance with the dharma so that no reasonable consequence of their assertion would be open to criticism? Then the Buddha replies, Those who speak thus headman do not state what has been said by me, but misrepresent me with untruth and falsehood. Report an error in the passage at 40:11 Highlight the passage at 40:11

40:52 So this is where, because the Buddha is known to talk about the middle path and say not to go in the way of the indulging in the senses or to go into the austerity. So that is why this person is asking, do you sort of, what did he say, categorically blame and revile any ascetic who leads a rough life? Report an error in the passage at 40:52 Highlight the passage at 40:52

41:17 It's a really beautiful sutta here. And the Buddha talks about three different kind of people. I'm not going to go in. It's a very long sutta. But in summary, the Buddha says there are some people who goes into in search of or indulgence of sensual pleasure. But in order to get that, they get money and wealth unlawfully. Report an error in the passage at 41:17 Highlight the passage at 41:17

41:46 And others get lawfully and some others get both lawfully and unlawfully. So he talks about three groups of people there, how they get the money. And then again with each one of those groups, he talks about how do they do with that money. Some people, even they go in search of the sensual pleasure, they actually don't enjoy it. Report an error in the passage at 41:46 Highlight the passage at 41:46

42:12 Yeah, we know of these people. They're constantly searching, but they're not actually enjoying it. And then he also talks with whether they are going to share and do some merit with what they have gained. And also he talks about whether they become peaceful, I suppose. suppose. Report an error in the passage at 42:12 Highlight the passage at 42:12

42:44 yeah let's not make himself happy yeah and yeah no does it share and let's not do meritorious deeds so and then he says the the and and also another category where the wealth some do all of those things they might enjoy they might share it do meritorious acts but they live attached to their wealth who are indulging in the sensual pleasures but there is a another group of people they may be seen to have you know partaking the sensual pleasures but they stay unattached to these sensual pleasures and to the wealth and they even though they partake of these sensual pleasures they see the arising Report an error in the passage at 42:44 Highlight the passage at 42:44

43:42 The passing away and also they understand the escape from that. So if somebody lives like that, then there is no problem because sometimes even the Buddha has been invited to lunch at the king's palace and he would eat all those royal food. Being given very nice things so you could see that he did not refuse and some people blame the Buddha saying look the Buddha is you know eating all this nice food wearing nice robes sometimes even living in some of the monasteries later on were very nicely built and made so it looked like that you know some of the monastics were living very luxurious lives. Report an error in the passage at 43:42 Highlight the passage at 43:42

44:28 But the Buddha did not disparage that. The Buddha said if even they partake of what has been given, if they partake understanding, you know, it's arising, passing away, and also not attached to it, not holding on to it, not infatuated by it, but rather with the mind liberated, mind released, there is no problem in taking that. Report an error in the passage at 44:28 Highlight the passage at 44:28

44:56 This is also important to remember. And also the Buddha says also when it comes to the people who are practicing very ascetic practices, it is in this sutta. You can read it up yourself. It's a long sutta. So even with the ascetics, the Buddha says some of them, they just give so much torture and torment to their body and mind as well, I suppose. Report an error in the passage at 44:56 Highlight the passage at 44:56

45:23 And then, you know, what do they reap? Do they get any peaceful state? Do they get into any kinds of insights? So as a result of that, if they get any kind of pleasurable, sorry, wholesome state, and if they get into some insights, the Buddha prays them. But he still sort of says that still that ascetic practice that's giving torture to the body is Not praised by the Buddha. It's not necessary because it's not the body that gets enlightened. It's the mind that gets enlightened, right? So this is an important understanding. Report an error in the passage at 45:23 Highlight the passage at 45:23

46:03 So this is important to remember. And then the last part of this Sutta, the Buddha says, you know, our suffering comes from greed, hatred and delusion. Rāga, dosa. When these things are there, that is the root cause of our suffering. When these are abandoned, when these are given up, when they are gone, the suffering comes to an end. Report an error in the passage at 46:03 Highlight the passage at 46:03

46:35 And how does that happen? That happens through following the Noble Eightfold Path and developing the 37 Enlightenment factors. And in whichever way you want to look at it, It is cultivating the path given by the Buddha. That is where the suffering comes to an end. So quite interesting and important to again reinforce into ourselves not to sort of disparage people by just looking and seeing or they're indulging or they're torturing. Report an error in the passage at 46:35 Highlight the passage at 46:35

47:06 We don't know, right? So not to go around. We don't know how they're cultivating. Maybe they are fully enlightened like at the time of the Buddha, Arhant Mahakassapa lived quite a... still life yeah he only wore rag robes slept under the foot of a tree always lived with arms food and and practiced all those things We're not going into the austerities, but when you compare, looked at the... Report an error in the passage at 47:06 Highlight the passage at 47:06

47:35 Other monks who lived in the monasteries, he lived quite an austere kind of life, but he was fully enlightened in the mind. So he didn't do those to get enlightened. He didn't follow a path of giving torture to the body to get enlightened. He followed the Noble Eightfold Path and got enlightened, but he decided to live a very simple life, which seemed like a little bit difficult, but he didn't disparage as long as you are... Report an error in the passage at 47:35 Highlight the passage at 47:35

48:02 practicing in the mind and if that is right condition for you because for some people a bit of that may be the right one too much indulgence might make you a bit more lethargic or your energy levels may not be good and what may seem like austere practice for one may be the right kind of amount for them so that is why the Buddha didn't go around disparaging and reviling and you know blaming people who did this practice but the Buddha just said that the middle So that's also really good to put into mind because as Buddhists, it's also good for us not to sort of look down upon these parish people, even, you know, compare and start to sort of what you call judge, you know, who are we to judge other people? Report an error in the passage at 48:02 Highlight the passage at 48:02

48:57 Yeah, it's not our business. It's for our own understanding. What is the right amount for me? How am I practicing the Noble Eightfold Path? And this is where it is powerful. Report an error in the passage at 48:57 Highlight the passage at 48:57

49:12 So the last thing I want to say, just to make things clear about this Middle Path and the causality, the causal nature of arising of suffering. So suffering is a form of feeling, right? Both mental and physical feeling, mostly the mental feeling is what we're talking about. So the feeling, how does feeling come about? Report an error in the passage at 49:12 Highlight the passage at 49:12

49:35 Feeling comes about with contact, right? So for example, so your ear contacts some sound and you hear something being said. And based on what you hear, sometimes sadness might come up. A painful feeling comes up. But that is there only while the hearing is there or while the mental contact about what you heard is there. Report an error in the passage at 49:35 Highlight the passage at 49:35

50:05 So the mind can also remember what you heard and think about it. Then the mind contacts that incident again, that experience of hearing. But only as long as the contact is there, the suffering, the painful feeling is there. When the contact changes, the contact ends. That feeling ends. So this is what the Buddha says in essence. This is how suffering comes to an end. This is just a small bit to show it doesn't come from searching, from craving and torturing or indulging but rather through understanding. Report an error in the passage at 50:05 Highlight the passage at 50:05

50:44 Contact gives rise to feeling. Feeling gives rise to craving. Craving gives rise to clinging. Clinging gives rise to forms of existence and with that comes birth and once born there's aging so sorrow lamentation all of those things come to be so ending is we have to end the craving and craving ends when this delusion of a sense of self is gone yeah so in order to do that we need to follow this noble eightfold path having right view Right intention, speech, action and livelihood, putting in the effort, building up the right mindfulness and deep meditation. Report an error in the passage at 50:44 Highlight the passage at 50:44

51:36 And as the hindrances go down, you can see things for what they are clearly. And that is what brings about the insights. Of course, this is all just the map only. They're all very deep stuff. Report an error in the passage at 51:36 Highlight the passage at 51:36

51:51 And in previous dharma talks, we have addressed some of them and anything else that we haven't addressed, you can ask, ask questions or propose as topics if you want to know more in any area and we can address those in the future dharma talks. So I think that's more than enough for today's dharma talk. And we invite you to unmute and ask questions questions or you can put into the chat. Report an error in the passage at 51:51 Highlight the passage at 51:51

52:25 Thank you for being there. And Sandhika says, Dear Venerable, in relation to the Buddha, Buddha's definition of the middle path, i.e. not sensual world or asceticism. Is it correct to say that we cannot fully practice the middle path or the noble eightfold path while living a lay life, given that lay life is rooted in the world of the sensual desire? Report an error in the passage at 52:25 Highlight the passage at 52:25

53:08 What advice would you have for lay people? Okay, this will be a whole dharma talk. to address fully but the short answer is no the the noble eightfold path is to be practiced by everybody in the time of the Buddha lay people too I tend to various stages of enlightenment. They became stream winners, once returners and non-returners. But the Buddha says, of course, if you get enlightened as a lay person, your desire to continue is not there. Report an error in the passage at 53:08 Highlight the passage at 53:08

53:40 Therefore, you would pass away in seven days or something like this. And either you would become a monastic. I mean, by this time, anyway, you are living very much like a monastic. But the lay people or monastics, they both can practice. It is changing your right view and I mean having right view and changing your lifestyle and arranging it in a way. Report an error in the passage at 53:40 Highlight the passage at 53:40

54:04 I believe I gave several dharma talks about Noble Eightfold Path and practical ways to I think practice in real life or something like this where I spoke about with the simile of the snake story to bring up the day-to-day how to apply the no-blade fall path. But we can talk about it again another time with other things. And maybe Ayya Upekkhā can also contribute your way of applying in a maybe next Thursday or something like this. Report an error in the passage at 54:04 Highlight the passage at 54:04

54:39 But the short answer is no, you can. And we will give you more tips on how to live it. And it is also to try and simplify. It is true that when you have to go to work, when you have a family, when you have social engagements, there are challenges. The way the Buddha said, it's like a lay person going through the path. It's like a peacock, the flight of a peacock. And a monastic, it's like a flight of a swan. Report an error in the passage at 54:39 Highlight the passage at 54:39

55:12 But you can. He didn't say you can't. Yeah, you can. It is possible, but you can clearly see there is a bit more hurdles, but it is possible. But also there are monastics who fly like peacocks too, right? Even though they have conducive conditions, sometimes you also get stuck in projects or doing all kinds of stuff and can go backwards as well. Report an error in the passage at 55:12 Highlight the passage at 55:12

55:36 And we see sometimes some lay people actually really... Organize their lives and actually live quite well and make much progress. So it depends. It is possible. Yeah, we'll talk about it as a whole dharma talk, I suppose. Report an error in the passage at 55:36 Highlight the passage at 55:36

55:56 Okay, Simran, please unmute and speak. Thank you, Venerable. My question is about in regards to being monastic. What I've noticed, especially when trying to practice the Noble Eightfold Path, I feel that because I often consider like ordaining. I mean, I know that's a far off point, but I always think that. And then what I feel that is the biggest block in my mind is the idea that I've noticed it's very regimented sometimes where there's like, okay, in the monastery, they wake up at this time, eat at this time. Report an error in the passage at 55:56 Highlight the passage at 55:56

56:39 However, I feel like it's almost like this idea of being an ascetic, how they limit themselves in ways. When you're a monastic and you have to only eat at a certain time or sleep this much, that in a way could actually be working against the particular individual. And my question is, How would you then say that that's following the Noble Eightfold Path if you're doing something like maybe you stop eating at 12, oh, but then you're still hungry, you're still hungry. Report an error in the passage at 56:39 Highlight the passage at 56:39

57:16 Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that's actually working the opposite way. Yeah. Okay. First of all, let me clarify that this is exactly what we said is not the Noble Eightfold Path, right? The amount of eating, amount of sleeping, what time you do is not what is Noble Eightfold Path. That's the gradual training or that is how you find the conducive condition. Report an error in the passage at 57:16 Highlight the passage at 57:16

57:39 Noble Eightfold Path is different. That's what the whole talk goes about when we re-listen again. I mean like to focus on the Eightfold Path. Yeah, yeah. Even to focus on the Eightfold Path, you're talking about to get the... Depends on which monastery you are at. If you are at Santi Monastery, you have a lot of freedom. Our monasteries actually function different. Report an error in the passage at 57:39 Highlight the passage at 57:39

58:07 I don't know which monasteries you're talking about. Maybe there are. some monastic traditions that are like that but it's not quite like that of course there is there has to be a time to eat otherwise it's very bit complicated especially if you're arms with mendicants but that's very simple and there is also still evening allowables if you need a bit of sustenance like some simple things to get a bit of energy if you didn't eat enough So all of those things are taken care of when you know this, and there is a lot of freedom in our monasteries, for example. Report an error in the passage at 58:07 Highlight the passage at 58:07

58:41 We have the flexibility. to adjust how much work how much meditation how much study we do depending on the individual so this is how our monasteries are set up so this is but it depends on each person yeah so people have to know and you're very right so some people are not ready it is also a sense of renunciation because sometimes one of our biggest thing is wanting to control our life as well So that controller is a bit given up, encouraged to given up in monastic life. That is part of the renunciation. So we adjust. Report an error in the passage at 58:41 Highlight the passage at 58:41

59:18 After a while, you can adjust to those little things. Those things are quite simple. the eating times and stuff but the sleep and amount of sleep all those are not in our monasteries there is no bell that goes where everybody has to wake up at this time and everybody has to come out and everybody has to sit it's not like that and it is not how it was at the time of the Buddha either so Report an error in the passage at 59:18 Highlight the passage at 59:18

59:45 So that's that. So the flexibility is there. But of course, different individual works differently. For some people, having a little bit of that organization is helpful. These are the people who are not very self-disciplined. So for them, having a bit of group activity, having a time to do things is actually helpful for their temperament. Report an error in the passage at 59:45 Highlight the passage at 59:45

1:00:05 So then those people can go to a monastery which has that kind of routine. And others have a good discipline and they are able to take care and do. What is needed themselves, then they can find a monastery that suits them. So there's a variety of monasteries. Not every monastery is like that because it is not possible otherwise for everybody to work like that. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:05 Highlight the passage at 1:00:05

1:00:26 Then of course you would go backwards. But that's not the real problem in monastic life. It is having to live with a large group of people who you can't choose. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:26 Highlight the passage at 1:00:26

1:00:38 You will be living with all kinds of people together in communal life. Now that would be the real challenge. But that is helpful. That is actually providing incredible opportunities to grow, to understand, to cultivate the path if you have the right attitude. If you don't have the right attitude, again, you would be going backwards. It's true. So monastic life provides certain conducive conditions, but depends on where the individual is at. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:38 Highlight the passage at 1:00:38

1:01:11 So people try it out. Some people, yes, it's right. Some people, they're not there yet. So it depends on which monastery, the community, how the practice is going. That's what, isn't it? What would you like to add for this? And sometimes it changes as well. Yeah, it changes. Exactly. It changes. We have to be able to... It's part of the practice. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:11 Highlight the passage at 1:01:11

1:01:36 This is where it is conducive condition in a way. However, living with a group of people who have a similar goal... And have that conducive environment is actually also very helpful sometimes. So it depends on what individuals need. Some individuals, they don't need that. Or you can go and stay in monasteries from time to time and then you can practice on your own. So each individual, it depends. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:36 Highlight the passage at 1:01:36

1:02:03 So you can try out. It's available and there are big monasteries, there are medium-sized monasteries, there's a small-sized monastery. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:03 Highlight the passage at 1:02:03

1:02:12 So we had to find what works for us, even for myself. I didn't straight away go and ordain in the monastery that was nearest to me because I didn't feel connected. I didn't feel somehow the conditions were right for me. So I waited and when things were right, only things started to happen. And this is very important if you just push through and go and end up in the wrong place. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:12 Highlight the passage at 1:02:12

1:02:38 Yes, monastic life can take you in the wrong direction, just like you mentioned. Your defilements will be growing, your Noble Eightfold Path will not be happening. Yeah, it's a good point to consider. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:38 Highlight the passage at 1:02:38