Takes Years of Practice
11th June 2026 Ajahn Santutthi hosted this week's meditation session at the Roleystone Family Centre. Roleystone Meditation Group’s weekly classes are about an hour long and include a talk on meditation, meditating together, and questions & answers. The sessions are led by a Buddhist monk from Kusala Hermitage in Roleystone (Buddhist Society of WA). Support us on https://ko-fi.com/thebuddhistsocietyofwa BSWA teachings are available: BSWA Teachings BSWA Podcast Channel BSWA DeeperDhamma Podbean Channel BSWA YouTube
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- 0:46
And if one comes into the meditation practice expecting the mind to be peaceful or expecting the mind to have the ability to watch the breath or expecting the mind mind to be able to let go of thoughts so the mind can be peaceful. If one carries those expectations into their meditation, then a lot of the times they can be disappointed because the mind doesn't act that way.
- 3:15
Meditation is a practice of patience, like patience meaning just giving it time to grow. There's no quick answers. I just remember, it's just something that came to mind when the Dalai Lama, when he was teaching, when he was teaching Buddhism, and this was the time when he was actually, he was getting quite famous, and people would just flock to him to listen to his wisdom.
- 10:21
And when I talk about patience is that you don't see the results straight away, but through time, through weeks of practice. practice, years of practice, eventually you can see the benefits of a mind that has been trained to live in the present moment, or the benefits of a mind that has learned to let go. Letting go means when you might have something overwhelming.
- 16:57
You learn to appreciate the benefits being in the present moment can give you. But what will also happen is you'll see your mind just swerving again off to the past or off to the future. And all we do as meditators is we just turn the steering wheel back and just try to put it in the present moment. And we just put it here and we just be here. And that's all it is. That's all it is. And we just repeat that and we just continue on.
- 25:58
lives in the present moment it doesn't live anywhere else it doesn't live in Bali It doesn't live on Mars. It doesn't live in the future. It doesn't live in the past. It lives, only place it lives in is the present moment.
Transcript
0:00 Welcome to another Thursday night class. Have you meditated before? Were you here last week? Oh, is that your first time? So you haven't meditated before. Report an error in the passage at 0:00
0:20 So generally, when you first begin to meditate, it's not the most easiest experience. Some people can have and a part of it is because of one's expectation. Report an error in the passage at 0:20
0:46 And if one comes into the meditation practice expecting the mind to be peaceful or expecting the mind to have the ability to watch the breath or expecting the mind mind to be able to let go of thoughts so the mind can be peaceful. If one carries those expectations into their meditation, then a lot of the times they can be disappointed because the mind doesn't act that way. Report an error in the passage at 0:46
1:22 In a sense, when people say, the mind has a mind of its own, it just thinks about whatever. And that's true. And you can also kind of see that sometimes your mind can kind of spin out of control. You can't really control its thoughts. So whenever we get into situations where we might be stressed out or we might be a little bit anxious, we can start to see our minds just get carried away by the mood or the emotion. Report an error in the passage at 1:22
2:04 And that's something to understand as we partake on this journey of meditation. Because when we're sitting down and with our eyes closed, sometimes we expect things just to be quiet and peaceful. But the usual case is when you sit down and close your eyes, your mind is going to tend to be active. It's going to be moving around. Report an error in the passage at 2:04
2:31 It's going to be thinking about stuff. and And the reason why it does that is because it's just, all it's doing is just carrying what you were doing in your day, you as a person. You know, some people are calmer than others. Some people are more focused. Some people just think too much. You know, so on and so forth. Report an error in the passage at 2:31
2:57 So the type of person you are and the personality that you have, you also carry that into. into your meditation practice and one cannot really expect changes to happen straight away. way. So meditation Report an error in the passage at 2:57
3:15 Meditation is a practice of patience, like patience meaning just giving it time to grow. There's no quick answers. I just remember, it's just something that came to mind when the Dalai Lama, when he was teaching, when he was teaching Buddhism, and this was the time when he was actually, he was getting quite famous, and people would just flock to him to listen to his wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 3:15
3:50 And I remember, it was at his, maybe at his height of his popularity, when he gave a talk, At the Birdswood Casino. Huh? Yeah, many, many years ago. So I remember, I remember. And we were invited to go there. We sat through his lecture. And I think one of the things that he said that is like, when it comes to like making a peaceful mind, or he was there to help people with their problems, he said it's not a magical pill that he can give you to overcome your problems. Report an error in the passage at 3:50
4:32 www .johannasantutthi.com It takes time and and it's almost like a like a practice of discovery like you just like you know when people would like like you know you got some explorers who who you know who go for for hikes in the bush and they're there to discover new species of plants or or animals or what's living what's surviving here and what isn't you know these people they go out there Report an error in the passage at 4:32
6:02 We have our emotions, you know, we get angry, we get anxious. Another thing that humans like to do is we get fearful of the future, you know. Report an error in the passage at 6:02
6:16 And, you know, people like traveling, people traveling to Europe, they kind of get that sense of fear because of the war that's going on. So, you know, things like that. And the mind just like projects and thinks about stuff. Report an error in the passage at 6:16
6:31 That kind of illustrates how complex our minds work. But through the complexity, through the, you can even say multiple layers of a human mind, there are also the things that we ask meditators to kind of look for when they're meditating. Report an error in the passage at 6:31
7:01 And those are the things like peacefulness, a sense of calm, silence in the mind and letting go. So you can kind of reflect and kind of think about how you lived your life. Report an error in the passage at 7:01
7:32 We live our lives and we barely touch these things that we have in our minds. We barely touch calmness. We barely touch the peacefulness or we barely touch the exercise of letting go of things. Report an error in the passage at 7:32
7:47 So what meditation allows us to do is it allows us to discover these things that we have in our minds. and and Report an error in the passage at 7:47
7:59 So when we're meditating, it's just not only a process of blocking out the world. It's a part of it. It's not only about just getting rid of a stressful event that you had at work. It could help with that, but meditation is not used for that specifically. It's used for many other things. And you can kind of... Report an error in the passage at 7:59
8:30 You can kind of embark on the journey of meditation as a multifaceted kind of practice. So we're sitting down and we're trying to develop these things. So there's just so many angles to come from. And one of the things that we like to teach here is we like to teach people to use meditation as a tool. Report an error in the passage at 8:30
9:00 To train the mind to live more in the present moment. I always talk about the present moment. To live more in the present moment. Report an error in the passage at 9:00
9:15 To live more in the present moment and to kind of... Because when we're meditating, we meditate but we also want the results of meditation. Why do we meditate? What's the reason? We do things to get something from it. We go to work to get a paycheck. Report an error in the passage at 9:15
9:42 We work in the garden so we can have a beautiful garden. We do building work so we can finish a project. And we meditate to be able to get something from it. And that usually is a more peaceful and calmer, a more relaxed, even-keeled life. paycheck Report an error in the passage at 9:42
10:02 life and And how do we do that? The way we do that is to, one of the ways that we can do that is we can try to place our minds more into the present moment. And when I talk about patience is that you don't see the results straight away, but through time, through weeks of practice. practice, years of practice, eventually you can see the benefits of a mind that has been trained to live in the present moment, or the benefits of a mind that has learned to let go. Report an error in the passage at 10:02
10:51 Letting go means when you might have something overwhelming. Report an error in the passage at 10:51
11:01 That is kind of lodged into your mind. You have the thought that understands that this is not good for my well-being. This is causing me some mental anguish. And understand that it doesn't need to be here so that we can learn how to let it go. So we're also learning to do that as well. We are learning to, in a sense, throw away the rubbish in our minds. Report an error in the passage at 11:01
11:39 So that is a part, that is a small part of how we meditate. And just to encourage people is... We just do these things like the letting go, the present moment awareness, the experience of calm, looking for the peace in the mind. We're just doing these things and we don't really understand when the results happen. Report an error in the passage at 11:39
12:24 We don't really understand when they happen or when are we going to become peaceful people. When are we going to become more quiet in the mind? You do these things without understanding when these things will arise. But if you do it long enough, if you practice this path and you're patient, you can start to see these things arising more into your daily life. Report an error in the passage at 12:24
12:55 So when you're at work, you're living more presently at work. I always like to say, whatever you develop in the meditation whether it's peace, a sense of kindness, gentleness, letting go, that will bleed into your life. And you will. Report an error in the passage at 12:55
14:00 But then at the same time, when we talk about our minds, we also bring who we are into the meditation practice. And generally, if we have a good start, and what I mean is just who we are as human beings, if we're level-headed, we're calm, we don't get too emotional, stuff like that. then the meditation can be a lot easier for us the process but if we're hot-headed our minds are all over the place we were taking that we're taking that into our practice and we have to work with that and kind of China life So, I think... Report an error in the passage at 14:00
14:58 But always, I think, always a good focus is to try to centre your mind into the present moment. It's very simple, but it's really hard to do. It's almost like, I was trying to think about a way to describe it. Report an error in the passage at 14:58
15:23 And it's always like, say you're driving a car, and then, so when... The present, so there's three lanes. There's three lanes. We have the past. So our minds tend to go off into the past. Or we have the future lane. Our minds like to think about the future, what we're going to do tomorrow, what we're going to eat in the past. Or this person said that. This person only thinks about memories and stuff like that. And then we have the middle lane, which is the present moment. Report an error in the passage at 15:23
15:51 So the way I was thinking about meditation the other day is like how, what's like the process of putting our minds www .Ajahn Santutthi.com And you experience what it is like to be in the present moment and you just leave it there. And you learn. You learn. What I mean when you learn is, okay, this is what the present moment feels like. I'm present now, etc., etc. And you're just trying to see the details of this moment. Report an error in the passage at 15:51
16:50 And through seeing the details, that's when you kind of learn. You kind of learn to appreciate the... You learn to appreciate the benefits being in the present moment can give you. But what will also happen is you'll see your mind just swerving again off to the past or off to the future. And all we do as meditators is we just turn the steering wheel back and just try to put it in the present moment. And we just put it here and we just be here. Report an error in the passage at 16:50
17:20 And that's all it is. That's all it is. And we just repeat that and we just continue on. And I think this way I'll stop with my little short talk. And what we can do now is we can do the most important thing which is the meditation. So what I usually do is I will guide you for the first 10 minutes and then you sit quietly for 20. Report an error in the passage at 17:20
17:53 If you haven't meditated before, you never know. You might go really deep. And I'll see you next week. Or you might have a terrible time and I'll never see you again. Report an error in the passage at 17:53
18:13 But, you know, it just takes time. All good things take time. Report an error in the passage at 18:13
18:43 First of all, we just get our bodies as comfortable as possible. We Report an error in the passage at 18:43
19:02 make sure our necks are relaxed. again Report an error in the passage at 19:02
· · · silence, 1 minute
19:23 The chair that we're sitting in, we can kind of relax into the chair or the ground that we're on. And Report an error in the passage at 19:23
19:45 meditation is just about being in this moment, finding ways to be in this moment. Could be one of the most difficult things that we may encounter because we're not used to it. We've never done it before. And it's something which is opposite to what we're used to. We're used to having a busy mind, a mind that doesn't stop thinking. And all of a sudden, we're just trying to put the brakes on. Report an error in the passage at 19:45
20:35 But, you know, nature doesn't work that way. So we have to just take another approach. Report an error in the passage at 20:35
20:48 And just try to know what this present moment is. I think like if you tell yourself, if you ask yourself, just put your mind in the present moment. I think everybody has their own version of the present moment. So it doesn't need to be specific to my experience of what the present moment is. As long as it makes sense to you and when you tell your mind okay mind be in the present moment and just allow your mind to go there and for you that is your present moment which is unique to everyone. Report an error in the passage at 20:48
21:43 What Report an error in the passage at 21:43
· · · silence, 1 minute
22:58 we're doing is we are trying to experience the calm there is the calm in our minds and Report an error in the passage at 22:58
23:23 it's one of the most relaxing things even enjoyable things that you can do in your life the Report an error in the passage at 23:23
23:42 reason why we don't like the calm that we all have is because we find it boring but Report an error in the passage at 23:42
23:58 after a while you can start to see how beneficial the calm is and Report an error in the passage at 23:58
24:15 because you see the benefits you like to hang out in the calm you can you can appreciate and be grateful for it because it gives you a way to relax the mind and Report an error in the passage at 24:15
25:01 meditation is just Learning ways to enjoy these moments, taking Report an error in the passage at 25:01
25:17 these lessons or these moments, allowing them to bleed into your life. It's as simple as that. But Report an error in the passage at 25:17
25:37 one of the hurdles, or one of the biggest ones, is to be able to get to that calm space in your mind. Report an error in the passage at 25:37
25:54 that calm space in our minds. lives in the present moment it doesn't live anywhere else it doesn't live in Bali It doesn't live on Mars. It doesn't live in the future. It doesn't live in the past. Report an error in the passage at 25:54
26:16 It lives, only place it lives in is the present moment. Report an error in the passage at 26:16
26:25 So that's what it is. What is meditation? Meditation is to just give yourself. yourself or your mind moments of calm. The best Report an error in the passage at 26:25
· · · silence, 1 minute
27:22 part of this evening is not the instructions but it's the meditation. It's just nice to be able to give yourself this opportunity. That's Report an error in the passage at 27:22
· · · silence, 3 minutes
30:51 one of the nice things about the meditation practice is if you If you practice long enough, then you can start to see that you're making improvements in the meditation. You're getting better at it. You can see your mind changing. Your mind is becoming a more calmer mind. Report an error in the passage at 30:51
31:22 Your mind has the skill to live in the present moment. It can learn how to let go of the stresses in the world. Report an error in the passage at 31:22
31:42 What is stress? Report an error in the passage at 31:42
31:51 Stress sometimes is just what the mind focuses on. And because it's such a strong emotion or whatever, we cannot take our minds off of it. But we all understand how attention works. works meaning you know We can pay attention to something and we can forget about our stress. People like to watch movies or go for driving their car, driving really fast, so they can forget about things. Report an error in the passage at 31:51
32:41 Why is that? It's because they're paying attention to something else. And in the same way, when we develop this skill, Report an error in the passage at 32:41
32:57 or even it becomes a habit you know eventually becomes a part of who we are is this ability to be in the present moment it Report an error in the passage at 32:57
33:15 allows us to pay attention to the here and now when we do that we can forget about the stuff we want to forget about and that's like the idea Report an error in the passage at 33:15
33:40 The power, we wouldn't call it a power, but how meditation can help us with the stresses or whatever we want to let go of in life. So Report an error in the passage at 33:40
· · · silence, 1 minute
34:49 now we can sit quietly for the next 15 Report an error in the passage at 34:49
34:58 minutes. Bring Report an error in the passage at 34:58
· · · silence, 13 minutes
48:23 the gong three times. Do you Report an error in the passage at 48:23
· · · silence, 1 minute
49:35 have any questions about meditation? Lots of questions. Yeah, you can start off with one question and then... Report an error in the passage at 49:35
49:46 I think, like, I know it's a practice that you develop over a long time. Yes. And I think the starting steps to get into it, to switch your mind on, right? Yes. I guess, like, how do you start to do it? To just switch your mind on to, like, what do you mean? Like, your Report an error in the passage at 49:46
50:15 mind, like, always just drifts. Yeah. Everywhere. Yeah. So, like, when you're in that moment of drifting, You don't realise until it takes like a little while before you go, oh, hang on a second, I was in the presence. Yes, yes, yes. Like, are there any sort of... skills you can learn, or is it just a practice? Report an error in the passage at 50:15
50:37 There are skills that you can learn, Report an error in the passage at 50:37
50:47 but at the same time it's also a practice. practice, yeah, and, um... And it also, it really does also depend on time of day that you're meditating. Like today, you probably just came in from work, right? So you still got the busyness of work in your mind and you carry that into your meditation. Opposed to like, say, you wake up on the weekend, you had eight hours of sleep. Report an error in the passage at 50:47
51:13 You had a good sleep. And you wake up, you eat your breakfast, everything's just chilled and relaxed. And when you sit in meditation then, You probably see a different type of meditation appearing in your mind. So that also has an effect on what you actually experience. But usually for a beginner, it's because you're basically entering a different world. And you're trying to discover something different. Report an error in the passage at 51:13
51:42 And because that is happening, it just takes a while. It just really does take a while. and one of them So you may not have any so-called success tonight, but you probably feel a little bit better, maybe a little bit more rested, or a bit more calm. There is a residual positive effect that happens by just sitting in the posture of meditation. Report an error in the passage at 51:42
52:19 Because if you think about it, How often do you put yourself in this posture of just sitting quietly with your eyes closed, not interacting with the world? We never really do that. So even though your mind can be quite chaotic, but there's something happening in the background. Because the body is in a calm position, calm state, and the mind kind of follows suit. Report an error in the passage at 52:19
52:51 But it's very slow sometimes. I couldn't tell tonight whether I was calm or whether I was actually falling asleep sitting up. Yeah, yeah. You couldn't quite tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you also have those things that happen in the meditations, like you may fall asleep or the mind can become a bit brighter or the mind can stay more in the present moment. Report an error in the passage at 52:51
53:16 Yeah, like I said, it's all a path of discovery and just intentional, like even intentional thought. Like you put yourself here and okay, it's like this is the time when I'm going to put my mind into the present moment. Or this is the time when I allow myself not to think about what I'm going to do tomorrow or think about what happened at work today. So those are the things that we can use. Report an error in the passage at 53:16
53:45 To help our mind stay in the present moment. But I think also another way is to just be mindful of the present moment and try to understand what it is. And I think a good tip is if you engage in something that you like to do. Say, I don't know, what do people like to do these days? Play sport or... If you're into arts and crafts or you like cooking or something, just something simple like that, when you find yourself doing things that you enjoy, you see that your mind is engaged with the activity. Report an error in the passage at 53:45
54:29 So that's what we're trying to do as well when we're trying to figure out how do we keep our minds in the present moment. There has to be like an element of engagement there. The same that you have... www.Ajahn Santutthi .com And I think, because it does something to the brain, it just releases the heavy chemicals or something like that when you engage in stuff that you like to do. Report an error in the passage at 54:29
55:28 And that's what we need to also find with the present moment. So you can meditate, you can be in the present moment, you can be engaged, and you just know that you're doing the right thing. And that's just when you can start. To feel that it's beneficial for you. But it is like a path of discovery and patience. Report an error in the passage at 55:28
55:57 You have people that have been meditating for years. How long have you been meditating for? Seven years, yeah. And it's just, yeah. Seven years, a few years. A few years, yeah. I've been doing it for a while. Report an error in the passage at 55:57
56:16 I've been doing it for a long time. I've been through a lot of the Charles intubations and the wasting of time and all that kind of stuff. But then after a while you kind of learn how to meditate well and you can start to see the benefits from it. I've always known the benefits. It's almost like you just don't always dedicate time for these things that are actually quite important. Yes. Report an error in the passage at 56:16
56:43 Yeah, yeah. And like we've both been through something quite traumatic, so we said, right, this is the time we need to start doing something to help us to heal and move forward and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you just got to try it, I think. And don't give up too easily. Yeah. Because you're just basically just giving up on yourself or on your mind. Report an error in the passage at 56:43
57:15 And it's sort of like this, if you give up, it's kind of like you're still going to be in the same place where you are, so you may as well try something different. And what harm is it, what harm can you do to yourself by trying to be more mindful and live in the present moment? I don't think there's any harm at all. Report an error in the passage at 57:15
57:35 And I think after a while people can start to see there is more benefit just living in the here and now. Your life just becomes more peaceful. It's a matter of learning patience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get very frustrated with things that I... Report an error in the passage at 57:35
57:57 I don't know why I'm not doing it faster or why I'm not doing it better than like anyone else. So yeah, it is like I found during this session that I started off being able to like short periods of... I should make my line sort of fill in blanks because there's actually nothing going Oh yeah. Report an error in the passage at 57:57
58:27 Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 58:27
58:31 yeah, yeah. but then same thing, I found I'd catch myself once my mind had wandered, not just a little bit, but really far, and then he dragged it all the way back again, but the more the session went on, the less control I had of myself, so I was getting tired of it, but it's just a sort of training brain, like fitness in a way. Report an error in the passage at 58:31
58:49 That's right, yeah, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 58:49
58:54 Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 58:54
59:08 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 20, 20 every year, yeah, yeah. It's a gym, literally it's a gym. You can't go to the gym and look at Arnie in like a day. You don't look at Arnie in a day. That's what people also think, like you go to the gym, you look at Arnie, it's a center of meditation. You get stronger, like I said, they've been doing it for a long time, 18 years. Report an error in the passage at 59:08
59:13 So the practice is like, as you do, I haven't done it in a few years, but as you do, your brain gets stronger and your mind gets stronger. It's like you're finally driven. Report an error in the passage at 59:13
59:26 Yeah, there's no such thing as a bad meditation. It's all a learning experience. You learn from your bad meditations. Yeah, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 59:26
59:46 So, yeah, you just learn from them. And then the mind changes and it grows. And I think that's one of the nice things is that when I compare myself to when I first started to meditate and then throughout the years, I can see that my mind has made improvements over that time. And naturally your mind, it may still drift off to the past or to the future, but... Report an error in the passage at 59:46
1:00:13 It's been habitually kind of trained to be more in the present moment. After a while, it just likes to stay here. Yeah, and I think that's what I want to just say. Because we do a lot of hiking. And I find when I'm hiking, my mind's always in the present. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:13
1:00:35 It's like meditation with your eyes open. Yeah, that's fine. Because you're just looking at everything in front of you and stuff and you're taking it all in and thinking that you don't have any space for other thoughts and stuff. Like it's all about... And I think also just a good reminder is whenever you have time, you can just pause and just ask yourself, What is the present moment? And then it just gives you a different perspective of what it is or how does my mind feel in the present moment or what is the experience. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:35
1:01:16 And that will give you a whole different kind of perspective of what the present moment is. And then you can take that kind of idea into the meditation practice or into your work or at home. And I think those kind of simple reflections, they do help. Yeah, it's a long journey. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:16
1:01:41 But it's worth it. It's worth it. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:41
1:01:48 So even though we're Buddhist, but to me, the meditation is a very practical part of Buddhism. So everybody can relate to it. It's more of a... An activity that we do. There's hardly any religion in the meditation. And the reason why we meditate is to... One of the reasons is to develop more clarity of the mind. More brightness, more awareness. So we can understand more of the world around us and the people. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:48
1:02:25 And because of that we become more wiser. And then when you're more wiser you have less irritation and suffering in life. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:25
1:02:36 So it's actually very practical, very practical, yeah. Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 1:02:36
· · · silence, 1 minute
1:03:19 yeah, exactly. Because, yeah, I noticed a lot of my emotional state taking over my cognitive state and stuff. Especially what we've just been through, the emotional side took over so much that I wasn't able to focus on... Regulate cognitively. Yeah, yeah, to even be able to think. I think that's when I started to think about the system of struggle. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:19
1:03:46 think the meditation that we do is used to take the cognitive and the emotion to be separate. You've got to draw a line between what you're thinking and what is actually being done. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:46
1:04:07 I think I was aware of that, that's why, like I knew for many years. years that I had to do like we were thinking about something like It does calm it down. It's funny, in my workplace I'm in extremely stressful situations and my mind is so clear Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 1:04:07
1:04:32 yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. work. It's so clear, I have no other thoughts. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:32
1:04:35 outside work I'm an emotional mess yeah I use all my energy at work yeah that's a problem Report an error in the passage at 1:04:35
1:04:48 Yeah, and it's a trained thing. You're trained to think like that in stressful situations. Yeah, without that training, I wouldn't be thinking like that. So, yeah, now I need to apply that to the rest of my life. Okay, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:48
1:05:08 We can finish, yeah, we can finish. Awesome. Yes, and it continues. It never stops. The rain. Well, today, anyway, today. Yeah. The rain all day. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:08
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Talk by Ajahn Santutthi, recorded at Roleystone Meditation Group, 16 June 2026. Original at Buddhist Society of Western Australia: https://podcast.bswa.org/e/takes-years-of-practice-ajahn-santutthi-roleystone-meditation-group/. Licensed No license stated; shared with the archive's knowledge (courtesy note). Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.
Listen on Buddhist Society of Western Australia · No license stated; shared with the archive's knowledge (courtesy note)