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- 0:00
For any kind of healing to take place, what's required is a connection, is contact, is coming to touch that place with understanding and compassion or tenderness. There's a line in James Joyce's Ulysses that describes too many of us. He says somewhere in there, Mr. Duffy lived a short distance from his body. And the very first principle in our meditation practice to heal ourselves in our relationships in the world around is to come and be present rather than in some set of ideals or ideas or concepts we have about life or how we wish it would be or how we hope it would be or how long or short or good or bad or sweet or sour it should be.
- 1:11
The healing that will take place with aids is not a healing of a particular individual alone, but it's really a healing through our connection with one another. I remember being with Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, the wonderful old Vietnamese Zen teacher. And we were interviewing him and one of the questions we asked was, someone asked was, is there such a thing as group karma?
- 4:54
And somehow it's in our, the word in Buddhism is Saṅgha. There are a lot of meanings for Saṅgha. In one way it means the community of monks and nuns. In another it means the community of people involved in spiritual practice. But in another very profound meaning, is just the truth of our interconnectedness, that our own hearts and our own beings and our own wisdom can't be separated from the rest of the world.
- 7:32
And I started to talk to my baby. And I said, you know, Caroline, I've got to go off and see my daddy, just like I'm your daddy. I have a daddy, too, and she's three months old. She's just hearing me babble, I suppose, and I'm going on. And my daddy's very, very sick, and he's your grandpa, and you've never met him. I said, and you may never get to meet him. I hope you can, telling her all these things about her grandpa.
- 38:01
I was thinking in the more coarse terms about getting something, developing something, rather than really working with it, looking, witnessing, learning from this experience. So then I began to just notice what malaria is like without reacting to it. And I became quite content with it, actually. I thought, it's alright, having malaria.
Transcript
0:00 For any kind of healing to take place, what's required is a connection, is contact, is coming to touch that place with understanding and compassion or tenderness. Report an error in the passage at 0:00
0:17 There's a line in James Joyce's Ulysses that describes too many of us. He says somewhere in there, Mr. Duffy lived a short distance from his body. Report an error in the passage at 0:17
0:32 And the very first principle in our meditation practice to heal ourselves in our relationships in the world around is to come and be present rather than in some set of ideals or ideas or concepts we have about life or how we wish it would be or how we hope it would be or how long or short or good or bad or sweet or sour it should be. Report an error in the passage at 0:32
0:57 is to come into the present and make an actual connection with this physical body, with the heart, with the mind, with the earth around us. Report an error in the passage at 0:57
1:11 The healing that will take place with aids is not a healing of a particular individual alone, but it's really a healing through our connection with one another. I remember being with Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, the wonderful old Vietnamese Zen teacher. And we were interviewing him and one of the questions we asked was, someone asked was, is there such a thing as group karma? Report an error in the passage at 1:11
1:44 Why is it that the Vietnamese suffered in the way that they did in the war? Did they do something bad in some past life or something as a group and therefore they had such terror and the bombs rained on them and so much sorrow in their civilization and their country? Report an error in the passage at 1:44
2:01 And he paused for a long time before he answered and looked around the room at everyone and he said, the Vietnam didn't happen to the Vietnamese. It happened to everyone in this room. Every single person was touched in some important way, was connected with that war. And in that sense, each one of us has aids. Each one of us is connected. Report an error in the passage at 2:01
2:35 And some perverse way inside, I wish that we all had AIDS literally because it's so close to that being the truth anyway. Report an error in the passage at 2:35
2:47 And it's in our touching it, our acknowledging, our coming to feel our breath or our body or what are the places that are held, that are unloved, that are tight, or our hearts. What have we kept out of our hearts? Where is it cold? Where have we been wounded and not let ourselves feel? That some healing can take place. There's a story from the old Japanese tradition, a description of heaven and hell. Report an error in the passage at 2:47
3:16 And the description of hell is of this room filled with banquet tables with beautiful food, all the most wonderful fruits and the delicious kinds of food from every culture that you could imagine prepared and displayed with tempting aroma and color, kind of delicacy. seated at the table are all of these people with long forks, three feet long. Report an error in the passage at 3:16
3:49 And the food is there and you're starving and you're hungry. The only rule is that you have to hold on to the end of the fork. So people are trying to eat but the fork is too long and there's no way to eat it. And there's this sense of frustration and torture. Report an error in the passage at 3:49
4:15 And if you slide your hand down a little to get closer so you can get some in your mouth and the demon comes along and pokes you in the back. The description of heaven is interesting. It's exactly the same. The same long tables, the same gourmet food and beautiful fruits and aromas and smells. The same long forks. Report an error in the passage at 4:15
4:41 The only difference is that in the description of heaven, the people at the table are feeding those who are sitting opposite them. Report an error in the passage at 4:41
4:54 And somehow it's in our, the word in Buddhism is Saṅgha. There are a lot of meanings for Saṅgha. In one way it means the community of monks and nuns. In another it means the community of people involved in spiritual practice. But in another very profound meaning, is just the truth of our interconnectedness, that our own hearts and our own beings and our own wisdom can't be separated from the rest of the world. Report an error in the passage at 4:54
5:25 You can't say, I'll be wise for myself or I'll be compassionate and forget everybody else. It's not possible to open means to sense that connection. And so our sitting and our listening is just the first step of Maybe just touching our breath or our body or the places of our own fears or holding with some kindness, with some connection. Report an error in the passage at 5:25
5:52 And if we do that, then maybe we can look in the eyes of another person and connect in that same way. Report an error in the passage at 5:52
6:08 Sometimes it's through another person. A couple of years ago my father was very ill. He had a bad heart attack. While I was teaching on the East Coast, a meditation retreat, I got a call and he was in the hospital and due for surgery the next day. They didn't think he would live, actually. They gave him about a 5 % or 10 % chance of survival. He's not so old. Report an error in the passage at 6:08
6:39 He's 66. And I had a few hours before going to see him, before I could catch my plane. And I had my daughter, who then was just about three months old. And I was holding her, and I was pacing back and forth. I tried to sit. It helped a little bit, actually. Sitting was one of the few things that helped. And then I got up, and it was my turn to take her, and I was walking back and forth. Report an error in the passage at 6:39
7:02 And I felt frightened, and I felt very, very sad. And I started to talk to her. I hadn't cried or anything. Crying doesn't come so easily for me still, even after a lot of years of therapy and a lot of thousands of dollars. I've learned to cry. It cost a lot. It wasn't easy. Anyway, so there I am walking back and forth. I'm feeling very, very upset. Report an error in the passage at 7:02
7:32 And I started to talk to my baby. And I said, you know, Caroline, I've got to go off and see my daddy, just like I'm your daddy. I have a daddy, too, and she's three months old. She's just hearing me babble, I suppose, and I'm going on. And my daddy's very, very sick, and he's your grandpa, and you've never met him. I said, and you may never get to meet him. I hope you can, telling her all these things about her grandpa. Report an error in the passage at 7:32
7:56 And I said, but you may not get to meet him. And then I just started to weep. And I was just crying and crying. I was crying for her not meeting her grandfather. Or at least that's how it first came out. It was very hard for me to cry for myself. Report an error in the passage at 7:56
8:11 But I could hold her and care for her and wish something for her and really allow it. And sometimes it's in our touching of another person, our willingness to open up to another person or to the earth around us that that kind of wisdom and compassion or... A greatness of heart that Ajahn Sumedho speaks of can be found. It's not in running away from the world or our life but in some way opening to it. Report an error in the passage at 8:11
8:47 A few of the topics which have been suggested in conversations and speaking with people that I just like to throw out as a way to seed the afternoon and then perhaps questions or things that Ajahn Sumedho or Ajahn Ananda have to say we can start to explore them. Report an error in the passage at 8:47
9:06 One was some further elaboration about working with pain, with physical pain, not just in sitting, which is one place with one's knees or back, but also when someone is sick and in great degrees of physical pain, how can one relate to that or work with it in a wise way or draw on the strength of spiritual practice and understanding. Report an error in the passage at 9:06
9:34 another is working Not just with physical difficulties, but with the difficult kind of mental states that come up, particularly worry and fear and doubt. Report an error in the passage at 9:34
9:48 Doubt, which comes so much, especially in relation to AIDS for people who don't have it yet or who have ARK or some related condition or fear they might have the virus. Report an error in the passage at 9:48
10:03 and every time they get a cold or feel a little bit sick there's this whole specter of is this the end of my life and what's the consequences of this and all the kinds of states of mind of worry and fear and terror and panic and what might be skillful ways to use to relate to that kind of situation and to ground it in a in a wiser way then Report an error in the passage at 10:03
10:31 Another important question which Daniel raised was that in the later stages of AIDS, for certain people anyway, it goes into a kind of dementia. That is, it affects the brain as much as other parts of the body. Also terrifying for some people, bewildering, as much for the people who are caregivers as for the people that... Report an error in the passage at 10:31
10:59 Have that experience and what ways can we look to to relate wisely or skillfully to that kind of situation when someone that you know and love very close to you changes in ways that they don't recognize themselves anymore or recognize you or you don't see in them the same person. How can one deal with that level of difficulty. Report an error in the passage at 10:59
11:31 Just one last thing to add in putting those kind of topics out. If I were to sense in myself the kind of work that is called on for all of us to do in relation to healing and aids, it feels like it's mostly work of the heart more than anything else. Report an error in the passage at 11:31
11:55 Coming to terms with the limitations of our physical body and pains and fears and dying, being very ill, having all the things come up of severe illness and death. But more than any other place of work from our practice and our vision, it feels like it's work of the heart. Report an error in the passage at 11:55
12:19 Is there some way that we can learn to touch one another in this process or to touch ourselves or to relate to things that are really fearful or that are genuinely painful or frightening or upsetting in ways that we've never encountered and not leave our heart behind. Report an error in the passage at 12:19
12:45 I almost imagine even in this group that people at some point would turn to one another and just put your hands on somebody else's heart and just hold it there and touch it. Not to do anything to it, but just to make contact from that place with another person. There was one woman I spoke to during lunch break who's working with some patients at the San Francisco hospice and who's also been an airline stewardess I've been a flight attendant for many years. And I said, gee, you must have learned some things from that, from being with people for 20 years of the ups and downs, so to speak, of that particular occupation. Report an error in the passage at 12:45
13:31 And one of the things she said was, well, I've heard every single way I can imagine that people could ask for something. Report an error in the passage at 13:31
13:40 This is pretty amazing to think about because we all have, some people are really afraid to ask and afraid to make contact and make themselves vulnerable and some people get very belligerent in asking and demanding again because of the fear and vulnerability. A lot of the work that we're talking about is to make a connection to our own hearts and bodies and to another person or other people really deeply. Report an error in the passage at 13:40
14:06 How can we ask and how can we receive? So I just leave those as open questions as a way to seed the afternoon. Tanijan, I'd like to ask, our teacher Ajahn Chah has been quite sick or was quite sick for a number of years and has spent the last four or five years, something like that, in a wheelchair and went through a great deal of physical pain and of A period that was like a dementia, tremendous, painfully emotional and mental upheaval at the same time as being very, very sick. Report an error in the passage at 14:06
14:53 I wasn't around him very much. I don't know how much Ajahn Sumedho was around him at that time, but he's been with him since. And maybe you could talk a little bit about that and also how the monks have taken care of him or what we've learned. As students of his in relation to him going through all that's happened. Report an error in the passage at 14:53
15:16 Our teacher, Ajahn Chah, was a very ebullient charmer and an incredibly wonderful personality and was a very warm, outgoing person, very wise. Report an error in the passage at 15:16
15:38 And so he was very, very attractive as a human being. People were very charismatic. He became a very highly respected monk in Thailand, and he attracted a large following of Westerners, Western people. Report an error in the passage at 15:38
16:00 And about five years ago, he suffered some kind of stroke. Report an error in the passage at 16:00
16:11 Brain damage in which he nearly died. And they rushed him to, they flew him from, he lived in the northeast of Thailand, they flew him to Bangkok to one of the best hospitals. And the whole country rallied around, including the queen of Thailand, sent food every day to the monks taking care of him. It was quite a... Report an error in the passage at 16:11
16:42 touching scene but the shock was that he was no longer the same person and when I went to Thailand about just shortly after it happened I went to Thailand and he was in the hospital in Bangkok and I spent time there trying to help the monks And there were all kinds of doctors and they had all the best equipment to take care of him. But I noticed that there was this tremendous sorrow that when anybody would see him he'd kind of break down crying. Report an error in the passage at 16:42
17:34 It was a tremendous grief because one didn't want someone you love and respect to be like that. return to being the Ajahn Chah, the charming, ebullient, humorous, loving person that we remember. But his teaching was always never pointing at himself. His charm and his charisma was never for personal gain. Report an error in the passage at 17:34
18:04 So he did instill in his disciples this way of contemplating, reflecting on the way things are. So this was a great teaching to all of us who've been a part of that because one could see, I saw in myself, for example, just wanting so much that he would get well and go back to being the person that I remembered. Report an error in the passage at 18:04
18:35 That he wasn't, when I first saw him in Bangkok, he was still... Going through a very difficult time in which he seemed to be totally out of touch with things and he'd react very strongly. You had to watch him 24 hours a day and you had to take care of him. You had to almost force him to eat food and it took ages to get him to swallow food. Report an error in the passage at 18:35
19:06 His bodily functions, we all had to take care of. We had to put him onto the toilet and had to take him off. We had to take care of him just like he was the most helpless baby, only a big one. And it's very difficult when you've always related to him with respect and the fact that monks in Thailand are highly respected. Report an error in the passage at 19:06
19:34 In bodily action, you would never think of touching him, or you bow at his feet, and when you go near him, you always bend low so you're not kind of towering over him. And the Thai tradition, Thais have a very lovely kind of etiquette, graceful etiquette that everyone uses, so that even a big man like myself has learned how to kind of... Report an error in the passage at 19:34
20:07 Thai Ajahn. But then I found myself now having to treat him physically in a totally different way. This was very upsetting, actually. He'd always been this exalted figure, this wise man, high above us, and we were the... The kind of devoted disciples down below. And suddenly we found ourselves having to cope with the very human, planetary, earthbound conditions of our common humanity. Report an error in the passage at 20:07
20:45 Then one never was quite sure. There were so many opinions going about about what he was really feeling and what he really wanted and whether he really knew what was going on or didn't know what was going on. Report an error in the passage at 20:45
20:59 A lot of problems with monks and lay people and people with these strong views and opinions would clash and there'd be bad harsh things said and feelings hurt and all kinds of this was going on. It was most unpleasant. But the way of keeping it in perspective was watching your own heart so that you at least could you at least i was trying not to contribute to the general confusion and disillusionment many people felt greatly disillusioned if he was really a wise enlightened human being how could this happen to him it kind of ruined everything because He Report an error in the passage at 20:59
21:56 went back to his monastery and Report an error in the passage at 21:56
22:06 They set up a most wonderful situation for him. Some people built a lovely house, all arranged, perfectly designed for an invalid, and hospital equipment of the best quality, wheelchairs, and the whole lot, and devoted monks, nuns to take care of him. Report an error in the passage at 22:06
22:33 Now, over five years... Report an error in the passage at 22:33
22:37 One thing I've appreciated during this past five years is the realization of how one, of what he really, the importance of his teaching, how valuable that teaching is, because it works. It wasn't directed at a person, so when the person disappeared, the teaching was still operating. Ajahn Chah's personality, being very charming and charismatic, then when that was gone, when he was no longer even attractive, kind of ugly in a way, and unresponsive and slobbering and coughing and hacking and all this, rather than smiling and saying wise things, what do you do? Report an error in the passage at 22:37
23:32 But the teaching was on mindfulness, wisdom. Learning to, watching life, listening to yourself, listening to what was actually, listening to the way things are, learning to respond appropriately to what is happening right now, rather than spending the time wishing it were otherwise, regretting that he's this way, wanting him to be otherwise, hoping that somebody will come along and have a magic cure. Report an error in the passage at 23:32
24:04 Now Thai people, I believe that people can have magic cures, so that of course every kind of quacky cure, faith healer or whatever, was called upon. And all kinds of, you know, anyone hear anything about any kind of herbal remedy or new medical treatment or any of this was always wanted to test it out on Ajahn Chah. Report an error in the passage at 24:04
24:38 I listened to myself at this. I heard this voice going in me, please, would you get well? Don't be like this for me. I don't want you like this. I want you to be otherwise. I want you to be smiling. When I sit at your feet, I want to be inspired again. I don't want you to drool on me. Report an error in the passage at 24:38
25:08 So I listened to this, and I thought, that's not me, is it? I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be a person that wants the impossible, that can't take life as it comes, that whines and cries and weeps and wails and full of doubt and anguish over the way life happens to be. Do I really want to follow this? Do I want to indulge and hang on and hold on to all this? But I would listen to it. Report an error in the passage at 25:08
25:41 I wanted to know this. This voice, this childlike voice, this whiny kind of creature, the one that wanted things to be otherwise. And then from that, one could reflect on what Ajahn Sumedho actually taught during those many years that I was with him. Report an error in the passage at 25:41
26:06 And I could see that one thing, in one way, it was a great gift he was offering because There he was, his body alive. He's even conscious, but there is no personality operating. Report an error in the passage at 26:06
26:27 There is no person there. And one could see that it's just as it is. These bodies are not really people. Report an error in the passage at 26:27
26:38 They are only what they are. And that it's all right for them to be just bodies without having to exude. Charm and all the kind of things that we tend to demand and expect from each other. And that also, it gave me an opportunity to help, to give, rather than to expect him to keep giving to me. Because he was a very generous giving teacher. And so then all of us, all the monks, I have to give back to him. So I was in Thailand last November, and I was with him for about 10 days, living with him, taking care of him. Report an error in the passage at 26:38
27:34 And I was really touched by the way the monks take care of him. There's such love and devotion, and the whole scene was so inspiring. That it wasn't in any way depressing. Somehow all that grief and anguish, sorrow, all that had vanished. And there was just this remarkable tranquility, serenity around the place. And great love and devotion to Ajahn Chah. Report an error in the passage at 27:34
28:06 And they take care of him. I think he has the best possible care of any human being. That a human being could ever expect in the history of humanity. I do tend to exaggerate. He does. Because one thing, he has a kind of care that you don't get through paying money. The monks love him so much that they take care of him through devotion. Report an error in the passage at 28:06
28:38 His body is... He's perfectly, it's beautiful. His complexion, there's no kind of blemishes, bed sores, anything. Even though he's totally helpless, he can move his eyes. And he can move one hand slightly. But other than that, he's totally dependent upon other people taking care of him and feeding him and doing everything for him. Report an error in the passage at 28:38
29:03 And that is done, for the past five years, every single day. Morning and night, day and night, by shifts of monks who take care of him and nuns who prepare his food. So that his actual complexion is extremely beautiful. His presence is very peaceful. And just being in a situation where there's love and devotion is inspiring. So what can be considered a tragic Report an error in the passage at 29:03
29:39 A tragedy has benefited all of his disciples. I don't know how much it's benefited Ajahn Chah himself. He must get pretty weary of it all. But it has allowed us all to kind of offer something back. But it has allowed us all to kind of offer something back. Now this I see with From my own experience with sick monks and nuns, I watch this in myself that wants them to get well, doesn't want them to be sick, that almost demands that they get healthy, that they smile, that they relate to me in a positive way. Report an error in the passage at 29:39
30:33 I watch this, this kind of selfishness in myself. It always approaches somebody else from that position of expectation and then from criticism if they don't respond in the way that I like or want or expect. Report an error in the passage at 30:33
30:52 We had a monk at Chittorst who has Crohn's disease and he nearly died at Chittorst a few years ago. He got so weak from this disease. Report an error in the passage at 30:52
31:07 He was living in this monastery with all these monks, and we'd all kind of, we all liked him tremendously, a very likable person. And so we'd all kind of say, how are you this morning? Report an error in the passage at 31:07
31:20 Then you could tell he'd say, are you feeling better? Report an error in the passage at 31:20
31:29 Then I could hear myself saying, please say you're feeling better, it would make me feel better. If you say you're better, get better. The whole monastery tended to go out of good intention and fear. Please don't die. Please get better. Get healthy. Be like you were. He was a very active, energetic person before. And then it kept getting worse. Report an error in the passage at 31:29
31:55 We tried everything. Acupuncture, herbal remedies, homeopathy, faith healing, psychic healing, everything. Every possible available medical treatment that we could come across in Britain, it kept getting worse. It hardly could get off the floor. And then he went through periods of strange hallucinations and madness. Report an error in the passage at 31:55
32:33 And then I realized that we were making it almost impossible for him by all our good intentions and demands. I went to him one evening and I said, you know, I really apologize for what we've been doing to you. And I said, you know, if you want to die, you go right ahead. Report an error in the passage at 32:33
32:54 It's all right. You know, you don't have to get well, in fact. You can be sick as long as you want. Be weak. We'll take care of you. It doesn't matter. And if you want to die, go ahead. And he told me later, he said, that was such a relief. Report an error in the passage at 32:54
33:12 That he could be weak and sickly and even die if he wanted to without disappointing all of us. I just contemplate that in how you relate to people, like people with AIDS and life-threatening diseases. Because out of good intention, we can always kind of take care of people. and make demands on them to get well. maybe we really just need to accept them as they are with their leprosy, contagious, possible contagion and all this. Report an error in the passage at 33:12
34:08 Do what is right, what is truly loving and caring, rather than to protect ourselves from the possibility of contracting anything and making our lives full of selfish interests and missing out on what is truly uplifting, truly worthwhile. Report an error in the passage at 34:08
34:30 And so this, you know, whatever we choose to do, it can be just, you know, a mediocrity of just... ...reactions and getting through, but if we put life and spirit into what we're doing, into, say, with people that have AIDS now, people working with AIDS, with people with AIDS and so forth, see this as something to offer, make an offering, really put your effort, put life and put spirit into what you're doing. Report an error in the passage at 34:30
35:08 Rather than feeling sorry for yourself or getting caught up in worry, I mean these come to terms with us like they've been saying, but the actual healing process comes not from healing your body, but from this willingness to be wise, willingness to put effort, to pay attention, to learn, to use what we have, even if we have a sickly weak body. Report an error in the passage at 35:08
35:36 To really totally accept disease and to not resent it, to let go of resentments and hatred towards it. Also, I had malaria for a year in Thailand. And it's a very enervating kind of ailment. Report an error in the passage at 35:36
36:04 I'd have it, I'd take these medicines for it, and then you have these fevers, and then they break and kind of perspire. You wet everything that you're lying on, lying in a pool of your own sweat, and then you feel good for a few hours. You feel very cool, and then it all starts over again, a cycle. And this went on for about a year. And I got jaundice, my eyes, my skin were all this color. Report an error in the passage at 36:04
36:31 I was completely this color. Everything, my skin, the whites of my eyes, the yellows of my eyes, just one solid color. I think people thought I'd kind of gone over the top in regards to being a monk. Report an error in the passage at 36:31
36:54 And I was very strict before this. I had this disease. I was a very dedicated meditator, so I developed a very strict discipline. I kind of like asceticism in a way. I like to spend hours meditating and doing very strict practices. So when this malaria came, I couldn't do anything. Report an error in the passage at 36:54
37:19 And I felt very frustrated. I felt, you know, it's interfering with my meditation, this disease. I want to get rid of it. And I'd go and take to the malaria clinics and get medicines. They didn't seem to do anything for it. Report an error in the passage at 37:19
37:33 Ajahn Chah came to see me one day and I was really down, really depressed. And he said, I said, you know, I can't meditate. I'm just too weak. I can't even sit up. And he said, well, meditate on that. Report an error in the passage at 37:33
37:52 I hadn't even thought of that. How am I going to develop my concentration and all this? that. Report an error in the passage at 37:52
38:01 I was thinking in the more coarse terms about getting something, developing something, rather than really working with it, looking, witnessing, learning from this experience. So then I began to just notice what malaria is like without reacting to it. And I became quite content with it, actually. I thought, it's alright, having malaria. Report an error in the passage at 38:01
38:30 I can take it if I don't hate it and don't resent it. Any of the symptoms or the fevers even, I mean those, when the fever breaks and perspiration, water pours out of your body, I mean, it's a bit of a mess, but at least you feel good, pleasant after. And I began to just feel at ease and peaceful with malaria. Report an error in the passage at 38:30
38:58 And I found tremendous peacefulness, even though I couldn't do very much. And then it went away. I had it only a year, and then it disappeared. So this was my meditation on disease, that it was, if I just changed my attitude towards it, towards this mettā, the kind of loving kindness and well-being acceptance of something we don't want or don't like. Report an error in the passage at 38:58
39:09 disappeared. Report an error in the passage at 39:09
39:27 I found out that the actual physical part, the fevers, the weakness and all that, was bearable. I could bear that. That was not really unbearable. And that I actually felt very peaceful from all this. So from that time on, I've had really quite an open-hearted attitude towards illness. Report an error in the passage at 39:27
39:54 I don't fear it. I don't dread it. I see it always as an opportunity for me. It will always bring up something or other. You know, something I can, some kind of thing, some kind of condition. And that I just practice acceptance with it. Report an error in the passage at 39:54
40:20 Maybe this would be a good time for comments or questions. Or anything that someone would like to share or ask about so that there's more of a sense of us participating today together. Report an error in the passage at 40:20
40:38 Please. I guess that I'll share too. The first AIDS patient that I worked with a couple years ago, myself and a nurse walked into the room on our initial visit and he was wearing an oxygen mask. Report an error in the passage at 40:38
41:02 And he looked up and And we introduced ourselves, speaking from hospice, and he said, does this mean I'm going to die? Was this his time now? And I remember all the thoughts going through my mind because we had discussed our fears about going and making contact with this person and the difficulty of reaching the person through the fear of contamination and contagion. Report an error in the passage at 41:02
41:34 Not knowing what we were going to be up against, it had turned into something bigger than a human. It had turned into AIDS. It turned into something fearsome. And the meditation brought some of this back too, the idea of all these thoughts coming up and having to let them go. Because if they stay, then you become trapped by their power and you're unable to do other things that are necessary to be done. Report an error in the passage at 41:34
42:01 So reaching through these thoughts and touching him anyway and doing it sort of in spite of myself and then carrying these thoughts all the way out to the car and thinking, I didn't wash my hands. Should I burn my notebook? Well, I have to burn the car because I've touched it too. Report an error in the passage at 42:01
42:25 Taking this to the absurd and realizing that I didn't have to do any of that stuff. Report an error in the passage at 42:25
42:31 And then myself, the feelings I have of myself feeling inadequate and worthless because I had those feelings and then having to work through those feelings. Report an error in the passage at 42:31
42:43 It's nice to have friends you can go talk to about these things and to be able to bring them out in a group like this too. Thank you. Just as a kind of educational aside, I think... feelings, and it's, um... Report an error in the passage at 42:43
42:58 By now, AIDS education has gotten much better than the fanatical kinds of fears that were put out not so long ago in the past years, a couple or a few years ago. But I hope everyone knows that in terms of transmission of the virus, basically there has to be a very obvious exchange of fluids through needles or through sexual intercourse. Report an error in the passage at 42:58
43:23 And that even families where one member has AIDS, a child or a mother or something, the other family members don't get AIDS from that person unless there is that kind of very obvious and explicit exchange of fluids. So you can massage and touch and hold and love. And probably one of the most terrible parts of at least the first years, if not still, of the whole kind of archetype that came out of it was that People with AIDS are untouchable, that you can't touch them. And that source of contact, which is really of being lovable, of being acceptable, was cut. Report an error in the passage at 43:23
44:08 And it's terribly important for us if we want to learn to relate to it. As Ajahn Sumedho says, not just to make another barrier or a wall or to not touch it. We have to touch it in some way. I also hear in your question this vision that you've had of how being with a person with AIDS you can get caught up the mind in that's what that person is they're a person with AIDS or they're a person with cancer or they're a person with some other difficulty and their identity gets confused in your mind in our minds with that thought With that image that we hold and we like AIDS or we hate AIDS or we're going to conquer it or save it or cure it or something and it gets all caught up in our own identity and thoughts and confusion and what I hear you also asking somehow is, isn't there not some way to let that aside? Report an error in the passage at 44:08
45:19 And to be with another person and to look in their eyes and realize that when you're there with that person, even if they're pretty sick, maybe so, it's just one person and another person and you're not even sure really who's going to die first. You do know that you'll both die. That you can be sure of. But beyond that, you don't really know anything more. And how is it possible to let go of or cut through all of the conditioning that's come through the fear around death? Report an error in the passage at 45:19
45:48 Around AIDS, around what that process might be and even with AIDS it's very different from person to person and just be there and look into the eyes of that person and receive them as another human being and say this is pretty amazing isn't it what we're going through this life, this birth and death and that's beautiful. Report an error in the passage at 45:48
46:11 Please. of the things that's happening in the community people with age sometimes is a lot of guilt I'm wondering if you could talk about that. The problem of guilt, people with AIDS suffer from guilt. Report an error in the passage at 46:11
46:32 I mean, people without AIDS suffer from guilt. Report an error in the passage at 46:32
46:49 Let's contemplate what guilt is. It comes from a self-view, doesn't it? It's something we create out of our mind. Regrets about what we've done in the past. Doubts. We've hurt people. We've done wrong things. And then there's always this mystery. Maybe we've done something really sinful. That maybe we're being punished. Report an error in the passage at 46:49
47:21 That this is a punishment from above. Some people see it like that. It's a kind of God taking revenge. Report an error in the passage at 47:21
47:37 Now, I hear this quite a bit. A lot of people tend to think it's just a kind of retribution. Report an error in the passage at 47:37
47:53 But what can we know now in the way things are? It's not a matter of trying to justify it and saying that it's... of retribution. Report an error in the passage at 47:53
48:05 It's all right or that it's good or exalting it in any way. Don't try to make it into something more than what it is. Or we can see the tendency to hate ourselves and to criticize ourselves and also to blame others. Like we can blame other people for giving us aids or we can blame the society for... Being in such a way that we developed and took the path in which we would get such a disease. But what I'm pointing to is here and now that this is the way it is. Report an error in the passage at 48:05
48:48 That this is the result of what we've done. We are the results of what we do, what we think, what we feel, what we act on. So that this is the result of doing something, of a certain kind of action. Sexual promiscuity, all this has this kind of result. We're putting ourselves in dangerous situations when we are just indulging in heedless sexual activities. Report an error in the passage at 48:48
49:25 Sexual force is a very powerful one. So when we despise it and misuse it and just indulge in it out of ignorance, out of heedlessness, then, of course, we get some kind of unpleasant result from it, painful result. Mental result is guilt. We start hating ourselves, feeling guilty. Physical result is venereal diseases or AIDS. Report an error in the passage at 49:25
49:54 So that this we can learn from. That maybe sexuality isn't something to take so lightly or to even identify with, but to come to terms with in a more mindful, responsible, respectful way. To try to convince ourselves or to justify it is one extreme. To just dwell on what we've done. Report an error in the passage at 49:54
50:25 indulge in guilt is the other. Now the mindful way is by accepting the situation. This is, having been born, is the life-threatening disease is birth. Report an error in the passage at 50:25
50:46 all suffering from that. Report an error in the passage at 50:46
50:49 That birth is the life-threatening disease because we're all going to die. And then, as I said before, what we learn during this passage between those two points, this is important. To spend one's life, the rest of one's life, hating oneself for what you've done wrong or feel you've done wrong or what people... Report an error in the passage at 50:49
51:18 Blame you for whatever. That is unwise. There's no wisdom there. To endlessly kind of hold on to self-hatred, self-aversion, disparagement. But to begin to awaken to it. Because these things are passing through us. Maybe we have to learn from this. Maybe it needn't be looked at as something. Like a personal failure, but maybe it's the challenge of your life. The challenge of life to do this, to accept this, to learn from it. Report an error in the passage at 51:18
52:02 Then guilt is the attachment to the view of self and the fear and doubt and all that we can create onto our experience of life now. Report an error in the passage at 52:02
52:20 In a way to guilt. is a part of the whole process of feelings which arise in us at some kind of loss. And you could say it's a part of grieving and lump it in with bargaining as well. If only I had done this or if only that had happened or if only the world had been different in this way or someone had told me something. Report an error in the passage at 52:20
52:47 And that process of wishing it weren't so or imagining or bargaining. As one part of grieving, as is frustration and anger, rage at the system or the society or the medical establishment or oneself, turning it inward. Report an error in the passage at 52:47
53:08 Or denial, which is another part of the grieving process, pretending that it's really not true. That voice that Ajahn Sumedho said he heard, I only wish that Ajahn Chah would get better somehow, that something would change. Pretending that things are not the way they are or the real pain and sadness and sorrow that come as we accept losses of things that we'd held on to. Report an error in the passage at 53:08
53:39 And it doesn't happen that kind of opening in any linear way. One moment when there's been a loss you can be angry and two hours later there can be a period where there arise feelings of tremendous sadness and the next morning you can imagine that you didn't lose that thing or that it didn't happen or it's not over or it's not been painful. Report an error in the passage at 53:39
54:08 And then an hour after that again guilt or remorse or regret or bargaining. And I think there need also be some respect for That inner process when we have had a very strong sense of attachment or view or hope or way that life should be and something comes along that changes that, that changes our life, it takes us a while to adjust to it. Report an error in the passage at 54:08
54:40 I don't know how many years of spiritual practice it would take to be able to let go of it right away but it's not in my capacity even close. And instead there's this kind of contemplation, this understanding of a process of coming to terms with something that may be different than what we hope or expect or wish, the way God should have made the world for us. Report an error in the passage at 54:40
55:05 And a respect for that means an allowing for all those kinds of feelings. and all those voices not necessarily indulging or getting caught up or saying yes each one as it comes is right because they come one after another and they change daily but somehow to touch those also with our hearts somehow to allow those to arise without fighting or struggling against even the guilt to say that too can be loved, that too can be received and seen and not gotten too caught up in but there it is, it's another one of those voices and see that as part of a kind of organic letting go that happens in all of the big changes in our life and all of the big disappointments and most every big change and big learning in our life has some component of dying and loss and something new that comes out of it. Report an error in the passage at 55:05
56:08 We think we have time, Don Juan says. That's the trouble with you. You think you have time. And none of us know. We really don't know. And it's short. And so the inspiration and the reminder of simplicity and of acceptance and of dealing with things as our practice rather than as how we'd wish them to be, all of that is to make what happens today. Report an error in the passage at 56:08
56:36 Who we are relating to and what our circumstance is into our practice, even if it's AIDS, even if it's our best friend dying, even if it's ourselves, even if it's our own body and our own disease and our own difficulty. And every single person has to face that. If they don't face it with AIDS, they'll face it in their marriage and divorce, and then they'll face it when they die of something else, of cancer or heart failure. Report an error in the passage at 56:36
57:20 to learn to do it every day and it helps a great deal. Report an error in the passage at 57:20
57:27 die to the past and take what is here as a new life. Report an error in the passage at 57:27
57:34 Nando and I will give you a proper blessing. Report an error in the passage at 57:34
58:04 Copyright © 2020, Report an error in the passage at 58:04
58:13 New Thinking Allowed Foundation ajahn bandho brahmot nandhi-sunankantam sumangkalam subhavadam suhurtindam sukanva suma-hundor jasuhindam brahma-carit subhadakinam gayagam Report an error in the passage at 58:13
58:52 Vandakina, Vandakina, Nikadavannala Vandande, Vandakine. Report an error in the passage at 58:52
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Talk by Ajahn Sumedho. Original at Amaravati Buddhist Monastery via Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/ajahn-sumedho-dhamma-talks. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.
Talks of Ajahn Sumedho, archived on Internet Archive. More from Amaravati