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- 0:19
the discontentment always comes from attaching to desire. I mean, you can always trace that if you, you know, even the desire to be contented. And to feel that you, if you've invested a lot of time in Buddhist practice and given yourself a lot of, you know, done a lot of things to try to be contented or realize nibbāna, whatever, or be compassionate, sometimes you're still very attached to the ideas of it.
- 0:58
And if you really notice, like I noticed, as soon as, Even when you do attain something in this life, if you attach to it, you immediately bring on a discontentment. It's like, it's the attachment.
- 8:23
At least when you accept it, you're not suffering from it. Even in its terribleness, it's just that. You're not wishing it were otherwise. This is the way it is. And then it ceases. It's changed. You're letting go of it rather than trying to get rid of it.
- 21:37
And therefore, I found living in Thailand very... I like living there. I like being a monk there. And because of that, it didn't... there in it. disruptions took place but then when you're then coming into England
- 34:44
Also, like resultant karma, we call viparka karma. It doesn't make difference.
Transcript
0:00 talked about discontentment, falling tradition, one gets discontented, a little bit further away from it, more into the day-to-day life. Well, Report an error in the passage at 0:00
0:19 the discontentment always comes from attaching to desire. I mean, you can always trace that if you, you know, even the desire to be contented. And to feel that you, if you've invested a lot of time in Buddhist practice and given yourself a lot of, you know, done a lot of things to try to be contented or realize nibbāna, whatever, or be compassionate, sometimes you're still very attached to the ideas of it. Report an error in the passage at 0:19
0:58 And if you really notice, like I noticed, as soon as, Even when you do attain something in this life, if you attach to it, you immediately bring on a discontentment. It's like, it's the attachment. And if you get tranquil, you say, we'll say in the beginning years, my mind was such a kind of confused mess of wandering thoughts, that I had very little tranquility. Report an error in the passage at 0:58
1:32 And then gradually I began to have more tranquility. And then I used to feel happy and glad at having tranquility. And the immediate result would be a sense of dread. Then immediately there'd be this sense that I'm going to lose it. And then there's always something, you know, like... If you're very attached to tranquility then you dread anything that interferes with it or any possible thing that disrupts it. So it's basically just seeing that attachment to even the ideals of Buddhism will always bring a sense of disappointment or discontentment. Report an error in the passage at 1:32
2:20 Because as an ideal you can never be... I mean, human, we're a dynamic process. We're not an ideal. And yet, we attach to ideals, and yet our life is a dynamic movement. Report an error in the passage at 2:20
2:39 And so, you never can, you can't paralyze or petrify goodness as a permanent state or peacefulness. Life is this way. It's sometimes pleasant, sometimes unpleasant. It's neither one way or the other. And in human experience we have our karma to live through. We have good success and failure and good health and bad health. It's part of human experience. Report an error in the passage at 2:39
3:16 And the contentment doesn't come from... Just having a kind of bland indifference, but from accepting and not making problems around the things that you're experiencing. Report an error in the passage at 3:16
3:34 So, like in life, we have to, you know, being parents, having a business, living in the city, modern life, and the insecurities, And the disruptions, those things are a part of life. And when we accept that, then we don't create aversion to everything. When things aren't going so well or there's a lot of unpleasant things happening to you, you begin to find an inner strength to just bear with it rather than... Report an error in the passage at 3:34
4:26 Also, when life is going well, everything's just falling into place. But you also know better than to jump for joy at that, that you're just accepting the flow of change, you feel a sense of contentment, and then in that contentment you respond to situations more skillfully. As you respond to things, to the flow of life, your responses are appropriate rather than kind of fixed attitudes. And then therefore you, in that you lose this, the condition, the causes of suffering. Report an error in the passage at 4:26
5:08 They're no longer, you're no longer creating causes for suffering. But in any religion, because it's, you have this high level of aspiration or altruism, Sometimes we don't see the attachment to that, and that can kind of carry us along for a while, but then it falls flat. After a while you just, it doesn't mean anything. You try hard to be compassionate or virtuous and be contented and all this, but that very effort's coming from a viewpoint rather than from a realization. Report an error in the passage at 5:08
5:47 So after a while you get just fed up with trying. And you become disillusioned with it. Report an error in the passage at 5:47
6:11 It's like wanting, like here in a monastic community, you have, I mean, everyone here is, has a kind of high level of aspiration in their life. You know, they all, you know, they've made a strong commitment. And so, but in spite of that, sometimes you can't stand them. Report an error in the passage at 6:11
6:47 Why is that? You think, well, when you look at it in the terms of that, you really respect them. But maybe emotionally you find, you know, irritations or that happen. But that's just life. Even in the best of groups, well-intentioned groups, it's going to be that. Or in family life. I mean, you must feel a lot. Report an error in the passage at 6:47
7:17 Living with your family, you know, you love your family, but still you can want to strangle them sometimes. And Report an error in the passage at 7:17
7:36 that's where we oftentimes get confused. Even when you think you should only be like this very compassionate person all the time, just love, forgiveness, and kind of none of this lesser kind of anger or resentment. Report an error in the passage at 7:36
7:55 Then you feel, well, I've tried, I can't do it. I'm just, you know, I want to be compassionate and forgiving, but I can't do it. I just, you know, here I am. It's really angry and upset. But that's because you're attached to an ideal of what you think you should be. And in the way you are, you can only criticize it. Report an error in the passage at 7:55
8:14 So you can't accept that. But in the contentment is in being to accept the way you're actually feeling, even if it's terrible. At least when you accept it, you're not suffering from it. Even in its terribleness, it's just that. You're not wishing it were otherwise. This is the way it is. And then it ceases. It's changed. You're letting go of it rather than trying to get rid of it. Report an error in the passage at 8:14
8:59 Unless you can do that. Whether other people understand you, you can't. It's impossible to even expect that. Because, I mean, well, you can expect it, but you suffer with no expectation. Because you're the one that's experiencing your life. The rest of us are objects. And you're the one, you're the center of your life experience for a lifetime. Report an error in the passage at 8:59
9:36 So that... This is why it's a totally feeling experience. Report an error in the passage at 9:36
9:46 And then other people at moments will understand this or not, but that we have very little control over. But if we're expecting it, then we're going to be disappointed because we're expecting external things to understand us when we aren't really understanding ourselves. Report an error in the passage at 9:46
10:10 Accepting ourselves. Report an error in the passage at 10:10
10:17 point, actually. Personally, I've got several people around me who have problems, they ring me up a lot, I actually don't take a point of view with them when they're talking. I just let them talk. At the end, I have to say, or have everything go as well. I've got the phone down. I often get to the point, not immediately, I want to say something. Report an error in the passage at 10:17
10:37 When I start to say something, I'm giving a point of view, which coming from me, and it might not necessarily be accepted accepted by by them. them, or even understood. Should I carry on as I'm doing, or should I make more of an effort to try and, not to say convert them, but to try and change them? Or should I leave it to them just to carry on as they are? Report an error in the passage at 10:37
10:54 Well, Report an error in the passage at 10:54
11:00 I think you have to just play it by ear, really. Because sometimes people just need to be listened to. Sometimes there's something to say. It's more... Trust in your intuition rather than take a position. Report an error in the passage at 11:00
11:30 Listening usually people find very helpful. But sometimes Report an error in the passage at 11:30
11:45 it's useful to say things, but you have to more or less be sensitive to the individual situation. Report an error in the passage at 11:45
12:05 Listening, I think, generally is... Because I think that's something that we tend to not really do. We tend to react. And so we, you know, here somebody's telling you their problems and then one tends to think they want you to solve them. Report an error in the passage at 12:05
12:41 But actually, probably all they need is just somebody to listen. Report an error in the passage at 12:41
12:49 bank, it's called Bank. Well Report an error in the passage at 12:49
13:25 you say with nuns you have one Report an error in the passage at 13:25
13:31 thing like the in a conservative tradition like Theravāda Buddhism you in the Theravadan countries whenever you bring up the subject like reestablishing say Bhikkhuni order it's a very explosive kind of reaction you get. You learn very quickly to avoid the The subject. Then, of course, they do have reasons. Report an error in the passage at 13:31
14:11 It's not just being unreasonable. And it depends on how you look at it. If you say, like in Thailand, most monks see it as that the Buddha established the bhikkhuni order himself. And that he predicted that it would die out and it did. So that because he established it and he predicted its end and it ended, then there's no reason, one shouldn't try to reestablish it. Report an error in the passage at 14:11
14:44 So there's that viewpoint, you see. Then there's other ways of looking at it. Like you can say, well, the bhikkhuni order hasn't died out. It has died out in Theravāda, but... In Chinese Mahāyāna, you still have it. And the Chinese Mahāyāna school took their bhikkhuni ordination from Sri Lanka, actually, Theravadan bhikkhunis. Report an error in the passage at 14:44
15:11 So you could make a good case for reestablishing a bhikkhuni order of Theravadan nuns through the Chinese existing bhikkhuni order. Report an error in the passage at 15:11
15:25 So that's one way of looking at it. And then there's another way of saying, well, the Buddha established the procedures for establishing orders so that you can establish a bhikkhuni order according to procedure and that you're not looking upon it like an apostolic succession in the terms of the Buddha established the order, died out, that's at its end, never can be revived. Report an error in the passage at 15:25
15:53 It's more like the end of apostolic succession. If apostolic succession died out, you don't have to have Jesus Christ or St. Peter or somebody to reestablish it. But if you're looking at Vinaya as mere sense of procedure, of ways of doing things, then you also could reestablish it. But to do that, you have to have agreements. And then also, the Bhikkhuni Vinaya is frightful. Report an error in the passage at 15:53
16:28 I mean, for Western women, it's about, you know, I don't know why they want it. Report an error in the passage at 16:28
16:41 But anyway, yes. Report an error in the passage at 16:41
16:52 So what I try to do is just try to establish a form that helps women to be mindful and that. I mean, it's... It's ten precepts, even though in Thailand they generally don't give women ten precepts, yet it's not like you're breaking any rules. In Sri Lanka they do it, in Burma they do it, and so it's not like I'm doing something completely over the top, completely new, breaking the tradition. Report an error in the passage at 16:52
17:27 But also, one is trying to just help to deal with Western... I try to keep it in that realm of being useful without being threatening. threatening, because. I do respect the tradition and what they do have is adequate. It's, you know, there's nothing, it's not like women cannot get enlightened because they don't have the same, exactly the same form as the monk. Report an error in the passage at 17:27
18:21 That's not true. It's just a matter of using what you have, really. Report an error in the passage at 18:21
18:36 Right, well then, you see, it's, then it doesn't really matter because in Thailand, for example, when When a nun gets enlightened, I mean, she's highly respected. I mean, for wisdom, not because she's a nun, but because she's wise. Report an error in the passage at 18:36
19:02 Or, you know, when you get into the level of wisdom, then these things aren't really... I mean, some people are going to hang on to prejudices, but they're usually the kind that... they're pretty thick anyway. Report an error in the passage at 19:02
19:20 It's just learning to establish structures that we agree on. Like here, this is how we agree to live with each other. And then we, because it's voluntary, because you ask to become a monk or a nun, it's not kind of forced on you, then because you've made that agreement, then you can watch your own kind of resistance or feelings of being offended or being in a lower position. Report an error in the passage at 19:20
19:47 Or feeling of being dominated by men or whatever that they might feel. Or you can see in the male side how we get very threatened. Every time the nuns look a little bit aggressive, we kind of go over the top. Report an error in the passage at 19:47
· · · silence, 1 minute
20:37 Interesting. I find in Thailand, for example, because it is such a Buddhist culture, That you don't have a lot of those problems, at least in the time that I live there. Everything is, you know, the whole culture is, the whole society and culture is Buddhist. So it's accepting of the forms and oftentimes non-questioning. And so the roles and relationships are very clearly established. Report an error in the passage at 20:37
21:14 And I really like that because it was so secure. You know, and it was... You know, you didn't have to face levels of insecurity and uncertainty because it was just such a stable relationship in a whole country, wherever you go. And therefore, I found living in Thailand very... I like living there. I like being a monk there. And because of that, it didn't... Report an error in the passage at 21:14
21:44 there in it. Report an error in the passage at 21:44
22:10 disruptions took place but then when you're then coming into England Where you can't expect that. You're a fringe person. I'm not even British. And you're a Buddhist monk. And you look funny. And so you're completely opposite of what you were in Thailand. Report an error in the passage at 22:10
22:46 And then... British Buddhists tend to have very high-minded ideals. Buddha taught equality and fairness. Taking Buddhism, putting it on an exalted plane of the highest idealism, and then having also a lot of biased, prejudiced views about Asian Buddhism. Because Westerners go to a country like Thailand and they make... Report an error in the passage at 22:46
23:20 Superficial judgments about it. They are not aware of the, they don't know, understand the culture, the language, even the religion so that then they tend to judge it in a very superficial way and get it all wrong. You know, then come back and say terrible things about it because they just saw, they didn't, you know, they just were trying to interpret. Report an error in the passage at 23:20
23:51 then they get it all wrong. you get all these opinions, views. Report an error in the passage at 23:51
24:00 living here in England, because it is a tolerant society. So you're not abused and you have rights. You're in many ways, I mean, this is a, it's not difficult. Report an error in the passage at 24:00
24:24 even the established church is a tolerant form of Christianity and so that you're not even though you get a few jeers and catcalls and is just part of you know walking through Hemel Hempstead on Binderbottom the big lorry drivers love to shout obscenities at you You get used to it after a while. Somebody yells at you in four-letter sequences and you... Report an error in the passage at 24:24
24:57 Good practice, I'd say. But then people's expectations also on the ideal level of what they expect ideally and then oftentimes they see the form here as something that they can't, you know, they find... Report an error in the passage at 24:57
25:22 reactions of many people when they first come is very critical of it, the facial. Report an error in the passage at 25:22
25:33 If Report an error in the passage at 25:33
25:37 I, you know, Report an error in the passage at 25:37
25:45 if Report an error in the passage at 25:45
25:58 I had they're expecting something else. Report an error in the passage at 25:58
25:43 then the aim of Report an error in the passage at 25:43
25:55 it. So that the, uh... Report an error in the passage at 25:55
26:03 I don't think I'd be doing the nuns a favor by going on a crusade for women for them to become bhikkhunis. Because what I see is, like in Thailand, what they fear the most is that women's movements merely want rights on the worldly level. They aren't interested in the spiritual. The spiritual thing isn't so important. They want to become bhikkhunis because they have bhikkhus. Report an error in the passage at 26:03
26:42 They don't want to be bhikkhunis in order to realize, you know, they're not willing to, the idea of having equal status is more important than realizing nirvāṇa. So it's coming from the wrong place because the, say, Report an error in the passage at 26:42
27:10 you can criticize it as being an equal, unfair for women, actually, if you use that, there's nothing in that form that prevents enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 27:10
27:30 not like, it's not like it's, that, that. That Thai nuns can't become enlightened because they don't have the status of monks. In fact, sometimes even a more humble status is more helpful because you aren't so arrogant. Report an error in the passage at 27:30
27:52 Like having, Report an error in the passage at 27:52
28:04 being a monk or being an abbot or a teacher, all these things are, you know, can be on worldly level. If you identify with them, then they're obstacles. Report an error in the passage at 28:04
28:26 And so you get like sometimes the nuns or various women want nuns to become teachers or putting this idea of becoming a teacher or an abbot or something that's a great attainment for them, whereas a religious practice, we would see that as something that isn't. Report an error in the passage at 28:26
28:52 Isn't part of our life. I mean, those things happen to us, but it's not, it's nothing to seek after. And where, and so you're, because the religious life, you're aiming at, it's almost the reverse of worldliness, where you, to, you know, where you're measured by your kind of status and, you know, the titles you might have and the following and the... Report an error in the passage at 28:52
29:26 to Buddhist monks and nuns we're not we're blinded by our own self-importance or position. Report an error in the passage at 29:26
29:42 that's where I found the Vinaya discipline very helpful in a kind of like with a of monks and nuns. It You're learning to... It helps to reflect those kind of tendencies. If one is making assumptions about one's, or seeing one, you know, obsessed with one's self-importance, or believe that, you know, one's own propaganda, then usually you get feedback from the monks, which helps. Report an error in the passage at 29:42
30:23 Helps you to see something that's difficult. You see a lot of... Buddhist monks that go off and live alone, they don't get that. You start taking yourself seriously. Report an error in the passage at 30:23
30:42 Because sometimes you get people, you know, they say wonderful things. People kind of exalt you, put you on a pedestal. And you can start believing that you deserve it. Report an error in the passage at 30:42
31:04 So good dharma friends help you, you know, and can warn you. Like every fortnight we have meetings of monks recite their rules and this whole kind of tradition helps to check that tendency. Report an error in the passage at 31:04
31:30 Another thing you have to deal with is sometimes you find that, I mean sometimes like being considered a teacher or being famous or being important. being exalted that also has a very unpleasant side to it because it's you Report an error in the passage at 31:30
31:54 know it's just you can feel trapped in a role and you can want to I mean I've had to deal with strong feelings of wanting to get out wanting to go back and live in a cave in Thailand or things like that but you But you keep working with what you're feeling. You keep using what you're feeling. I remember a few years back, I used to feel very burdened by the fact that I was the focus for everything. Report an error in the passage at 31:54
32:39 So that everybody waited for me. They wouldn't start eating until I came. They wouldn't get up and leave until I got up and left. They were waiting for me to come in and then bow to me. And everybody's waiting for me to say something. And this began to get on my nerves. Report an error in the passage at 32:39
33:02 And I felt this kind of anger and resentment. But then using that, looking at that, desired for it not to be that way, I learned how to let go of that kind of resentment. Report an error in the passage at 33:02
33:24 So in more and more one feels just being at ease at ease with being rather than trying to be at ease. Or trying thinking that if I find a place where none of these things are affecting me I can relax. It is to relax in the here and now not find a place where you relax in. And the aim of the Buddhist monk then is like it's since it is you know if you're really carrying it through to its ultimate kind of ...value, then you find being at ease within the limitation of that restraint. Even if you're alone in a cave or whether you're in the middle of the city, if you're on the platform or you're at the end of the line, it doesn't make any difference. Report an error in the passage at 33:24
· · · silence, 1 minute
34:44 Also, like resultant karma, we call viparka karma. It doesn't make difference. Report an error in the passage at 34:44
· · · silence, 1 minute
34:51 is Report an error in the passage at 34:51
34:55 The idea that you receive, when the karma ripens, then you receive that result. And I've noticed over the years, as a monk, where, say, in a monastic form, say 25, 26 years now, the actual karmic, in what I've done, has been relative, you know, there's no kind of heavy karma. I mean, because you've lived in this restraint. Report an error in the passage at 34:55
35:22 And it's been there for a long time. And so you haven't done anything that is like, be heavier. Report an error in the passage at 35:22
35:34 So then, but still, karma ripens. So you find sometimes even after years have been a month, suddenly you find, you know, anger or lust or things like this happening and you wonder, well, you know, I thought, you know. To all these years, that wouldn't be disturbing me. But then, when you reflect on the viparka karma, it's a result of who knows what you've done. Report an error in the passage at 35:34
36:05 But anyway, fruition might take place any time, even after 25 years. But then, hopefully, you've been practicing long enough to know how to let it go, not to grasp it. Report an error in the passage at 36:05
36:21 But sometimes you assume that because you have been living such a a kind of disciplined and moral existence that you should that you shouldn't have these feelings but when you these kind of results but if you contemplate it in terms of viparka kama then it makes sense and then you can just see it as a kind of relinquishment of that of the final letting go of it yes Report an error in the passage at 36:21
37:02 yes certainly Report an error in the passage at 37:02
· · · silence, 1 minute
37:57 say that the circumstances found you in Thailand, that luck or part of your karma? Because it wasn't exactly your own foolishness that you were in that part of the world, because presumably you had to go to I'm just wondering if that's also preordained? Report an error in the passage at 37:57
38:25 Well, all you can do is speculate about it. I mean, I've had a great... I was born in a very kind of Christian, white, middle-class American family that had no kind of interest in any Asian things whatsoever. And yet, from a very small age, I was very attracted to Asian people. Report an error in the passage at 38:25
38:56 See, and for no reason, it wasn't like, I mean, because we lived in a kind of white suburb, and then you might see a few, you go into the city center and you see a few Chinese or Japanese people, but I've always found them, you know, kind of attractive, even, and anything that looked oriental seemed to gravitate to. Report an error in the passage at 38:56
39:17 So there's this tremendous kind of pull toward the Orient from From an early age. So where did that come from? It's not coming from, you know, in the sense of culture and family, I shouldn't have the, there shouldn't be any, that shouldn't be happening. I should be, you know, Christian and supporting the values of my parents. Report an error in the passage at 39:17
39:52 And then when I went to Thailand, I was in, First, I was in the Peace Corps. I went to Malaysia. And, of course, when I joined the Peace Corps, it was mainly so I could go and live in Asia. Report an error in the passage at 39:52
40:12 They sent me off to North Borneo, Sabah. And then that's what brought me into Southeast Asia. I took a holiday in Thailand and Cambodia in 1965. Report an error in the passage at 40:12
40:25 And then I became aware of the possibilities in Thailand that Westerners could... Report an error in the passage at 40:25
40:37 Burma had kind of closed its doors to foreigners Burma used to be the of focus where westerners would go to Burma to study Buddhism Burma or Sri Lanka Thailand was been a colony where know Report an error in the passage at 40:37
40:57 wasn't really used then. When I first went to Thailand, hardly anyone could speak English, then... You know, Thailand was more or less became a focus for Westerners because of Burma closing down and then just feeling a strong affinity with the Thais. I really liked Thailand almost immediately and just fascinated by the monks and the temples. And yet other Westerners, you know, look at those funny orange robes. Report an error in the passage at 40:57
41:35 You know, they'd see it doesn't do anything. With me, I just, you know, just immediately felt a strong pull. So I went back to Thailand after I got out of the Peace Corps just to, because I realized that there was such a potential there. You know, people were very friendly, hospitable people and very welcoming to Western people interested in Buddhism. Report an error in the passage at 41:35
42:04 So it seemed to me to be such a, Report an error in the passage at 42:04
42:09 whether it's luck or fate or or what, but I realize that on intuitive level there's a lot going on. When you, in my life, I could see tendencies towards, you know, trying to, would take me away from these interests. Report an error in the passage at 42:09
42:36 there there was was also a strong kind of direction that I've had that never let me go too far away from it. Report an error in the passage at 42:36
42:55 And then coming to live in England. Interesting, because when I first ordained, I was a novice monk in Thailand. And there was a Canadian monk, and then there was a... And this Canadian monk told me about the Hampstead Vihara. Report an error in the passage at 42:55
43:26 In London, and he said, you know that he described some battle going on at the Hampstead Lehora. Report an error in the passage at 43:26
43:40 And he said, you should go there and take it over. This monk, Canadian monk, was very aggressive, kind of warlike type. The last thing I want to do is, you know, get involved in anything like that. So, and then, you know, Ten years later, I was there. Not because of that, but because of coincidences. Report an error in the passage at 43:40
44:37 You can say, or it can be what we call barmi, or virtuous, like things, virtues of previous lives give you a kind of direction in this one. In Thai, you say if somebody has a lot of barmi, that means that they've probably accumulated a lot of virtuousness. Report an error in the passage at 44:37
45:01 They haven't been enlightened yet, but they've developed so much virtue that maybe in this life they just, you know, they get to the right places or get involved in the right things. Report an error in the passage at 45:01
45:20 I feel that, you know, not meaning to sound egotistical, but I do feel I must have had a tremendous barami because to meet somebody like Lungphacha, for one thing. Report an error in the passage at 45:20
45:35 It was something that seemed very coincidental. It was more like it seemed an accident almost. And yet, intuitively, I felt that there was no question that that's where I belonged. I went to many previous teachers in Thailand, very good ones too, and never felt any great affinity or real connection with Lumpur Chow. Report an error in the passage at 45:35
46:00 It was no problem. What is that? Why didn't I feel it with the others? You know, you can make a case for it, but that is the way it worked. And then I found that because of that, I had that kind of confidence with him. Then I found that very helpful in living the life because sometimes life would get pretty, I mean, you had malaria and you'd get, you know, it can be quite depressing. Report an error in the passage at 46:00
46:34 The food sometimes is horrible, and you're sick, get a lot of sickness, and you say, what am I doing here? Am I wasting my life? And all these kind of things come up. But then, because I had a lot of confidence with the teacher, I was willing to let go of those, not follow those feelings. Report an error in the passage at 46:34
47:22 So it's interesting. See now, Lung Po Chok. Report an error in the passage at 47:22
47:39 His funeral next January, and I think 25 years ago, is just a little backwoods monastery in a kind of remote part of Thailand. Report an error in the passage at 47:39
47:55 And now his reputation is international. But it does show a very, you know, a great respect. That human beings have for wisdom and virtue. Because it's beyond the culture, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 47:55
48:21 It's something that we all respond to, whether you're European or Asian or whatever. And that when you see it exemplified in a living human being, it gives you great hope for your own life. Because I remember Thinking, when I was in graduate school, you know, here you're in this highly charged atmosphere of academia and people are very critical of everything. Report an error in the passage at 48:21
48:59 It's got this incredible level of negativity all the time in graduate school. And then it's, you know, you feel, you get cynical and you think, I was doing a special kind of MA degree on South Asian history, especially interested in the British period, the colonial period, and the kind of religious movements that evoked. Report an error in the passage at 48:59
49:37 So you had like the Ramakrishna movement and the Swami Dyananda movement. And then Mahatma Gandhi was, I had a seminar on Mahatma Gandhi, and this really inspired me. In my own lifetime, there is this man who I could remember, I remember living when I'm alive. It wasn't like a Christian saint that, you know, dead 500 years ago or 1,000 years ago, but actually I can remember. Report an error in the passage at 49:37
50:13 Seen newsreels in the movies with Mahatma Gandhi. And that he had put some effort into his life to realize the truth. That really inspired me. He wrote the book, My Experiments with Truth. I read that. I had tremendous courage to try to find out the truth. In the graduate school, you see all these endlessly quibbling minds and fussiness and criticalness. Report an error in the passage at 50:13
50:45 And cynicism and negativity and you think, you know, I don't want, I hope life has something more to offer than this. But you don't, you're not in contact with anything other. I mean, this is the best you've seen so far. If you weren't in graduate school, you'd be working at some horrible jobs. Report an error in the passage at 50:45
51:09 And so you'd, at least in graduate school, you could, you know, you'd be kind of delaying for a while. hope so. Report an error in the passage at 51:09
51:15 You kind of sink into the middle class mark. But then that level of life also was very oppressive due to the constant need to criticize and find fault with everything. But I felt this tremendous inspiration through Mahatma Gandhi. And then I thought... Report an error in the passage at 51:15
51:46 Well, you know, why don't we have, in America, why don't we produce people like that? What is it in our society we can't produce Mahatma Gandhis? Report an error in the passage at 51:46
51:58 Because I was very critical of America, I thought, you know, Americans, they just produce, you know, mediocrities. And no saints, no holy people, sages, just mediocrities. Report an error in the passage at 51:58
52:17 I went on like that and I thought, why can't our country produce better people? And then an inner voice said, well, why don't you try? Report an error in the passage at 52:17
52:36 I thought, well, I can't do it. I mean, not me. I want somebody else to do it. And then I saw, you know, that, well, somebody has to try at least. You know, that's what... Inspired me to become a monk. I thought, well, at least that seemed to be one way of, you know, some direction that one had confidence in that you could actually work through and try and get beyond this awfully kind of dreary conditioning that I had, that my mind was just kind of reverberating with the most dreary, banal kind of thoughts and immature feelings. Report an error in the passage at 52:36
53:24 It just seemed kind of, you know, the future looked very dreary to me. If that's the best, if I kind of reach my peak and that's how I was going to have to spend my life with that, I thought this is, I thought seriously of suicide. Report an error in the passage at 53:24
53:43 Or becoming a drug addict. At least you'd get some high moments and then die young. But there was Report an error in the passage at 53:43
53:59 that A strong kind of aspiring quality. And Report an error in the passage at 53:59
54:16 then that was in the Bay Area in Berkeley. And now, I mean, that was in 1962 or 1963. And now they've got all kinds of gurus, sages, mystics, psychics, you name it. They're everywhere. The psychic. Elmanach in Berkeley, it's thick. Everybody's doing channeling and communicating with disincarnate spirits and universe and dead Indians and Buddhist monks from previous ages. Report an error in the passage at 54:16
55:03 There's a whole range of mystic, psychic things going on. That just were totally non-existent in 1963. Just not there. No, nothing. Meditation, nothing like that. Yoga was still, you know, something very strange, very weird to be doing. And yet in, what, in 30 years, it's completely changed. To where it's almost absurd, you know. I think it's turning away from that. Report an error in the passage at 55:03
55:49 materialism didn't seem give people satisfaction. so I think they've come to the other. Report an error in the passage at 55:49
56:03 Yes, that's I think what middle class life, I mean I value that now. When I talk about middle class I don't talk about it in a pejorative way. I see that in that position where you really, you see the meaninglessness of it. Report an error in the passage at 56:03
56:24 And you, because you You can get enough of the goodies to know that by having more is really not going to make you any happier and you're not going to feel any better. Report an error in the passage at 56:24
56:39 Where if you still think if you had wealth and sometimes you think you know you put your aim at that trying to raise your status in the society. Report an error in the passage at 56:39
56:57 I Report an error in the passage at 56:57
57:21 will Report an error in the passage at 57:21
57:30 turn to tell Poverty-stricken people, that people have never had any real rights or anything. There might be, you know, I mean, there's always the special case of the saint in the midst of all the rest, but generally speaking, you find the world-weariness comes a lot through, you find so much like in more the kind of democratic countries, countries have large middle classes is where you get this strong in a spiritual life again in practicing Report an error in the passage at 57:30
58:22 Thailand you see it also Thailand now has a large middle class and it's interesting because how that class is rediscovering its own religion Bangkok for example There's a lot of meditation groups now, lay people, civil servants, doctors, nurses, teachers, all that kind of level of society is like reviving or there's a kind of renewal taking place. Report an error in the passage at 58:22
58:56 They're discovering Buddhism, even though it's their own kind of native religion. Before it was only kind of a cultural thing. Report an error in the passage at 58:56
59:08 And then as they become disillusioned with Western values and expectations and see the kind of dreariness of the middle-class mind, then they start, at least they can turn, like in Thailand, at least they have enlightened teachers. But, you know, they have... It's already there for them. They're suddenly discovering it and realizing that they can do it themselves. Because when I went to Thailand in 66, most Thai people felt, lay people felt, you couldn't really meditate unless you were a monk. Report an error in the passage at 59:08
59:55 They felt that the lay people supported the monks, the monks meditated. And lay people weren't supposed to meditate. They were supposed to support the monks, and that was generally the assumption. Now, you find, you know, that's not the case anymore. The lay people are very, a lot of, like even in hospitals, they have dharma classes. Report an error in the passage at 59:55
1:00:28 Every time I go to Bangkok, they get invited to give talks in about three or four of the big hospitals. If I lived in Bangkok, I'd be busy all the time. It takes hours to cross the city anyway, the traffic does. And Report an error in the passage at 1:00:28
1:00:58 it's also interesting to see countries like Mongolia and Cambodia, countries where the religion was destroyed, culture was destroyed, where they're trying to revive it now. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:58
1:01:16 Like Mongolia, 1936 or so, that was even before the Second World War. They destroyed the monasteries and killed off the monks. And now they're trying to revive Buddhism in Mongolia and Report an error in the passage at 1:01:16
1:01:37 in China. So at one time, the Buddhist world looked like it was rapidly diminishing. You know, when Laos and Cambodia went, then you thought, oh, next Thailand, you know, the Buddhist world's just, you know, there's another reason coming to Britain, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:37
1:01:57 Try to kind of salvage it. Thought something here. And now there's this renewal taking place, revival. Some of it is just, you know, kind of desperate return to old traditions. But also you feel that something good could come out of it. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:57
1:02:26 Because the communist system obviously was, you know, a really dreary... Oppressive, frightened kind of society. And a religion, you know, like here in Britain you feel, you can criticize Western Europe as being materialistic, but there is a, you know, you feel quite free to investigate life and you have You have a lot of options, opportunities now. And I appreciate that enormously, that I've had that in my life in the States where there was that possibility. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:26
1:03:25 I wasn't forced into doing something I didn't want to do. I had a lot of options to do what I wanted. So this is very much what I chose to do. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:25
1:03:50 that there's there for anyone's spiritual development. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:50
1:03:57 back, do you think before you became a monk, probably before you became... Report an error in the passage at 1:03:57
1:04:09 Well, Report an error in the passage at 1:04:09
1:04:18 theoretically, I agree. But also, you have to start where you have faith and interest. they are easy enough for one spiritual leader, but they don't have to be able to be a spiritual leader. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:18
1:04:30 You can't, like I couldn't really, with Christianity, when I was brought up in Christianity, I never felt a real connection to it. You know, something in me never, not like with Buddhism, something in me very strongly connected to it when I heard it. That's it, you know, where I was filled with, you know, Bible stories and I read the mystics. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:30
1:05:00 And yet, even though I liked it, it wasn't that I disliked it, nothing really took off inside me. I didn't have what you call a saddha to do it. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:00
1:05:18 And yet, some people feel nothing when they hear Buddhist teachings. It doesn't mean anything to them. When they hear about how Jesus was crucified to save you from sin, and suddenly you feel this tremendous Report an error in the passage at 1:05:18
1:05:34 of faith, to me that doesn't mean anything. And they say, and Christians, -again Christians say, he died for you, you know, and doesn't do anything to me. It's kind of annoying, I feel annoyed by it. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:34
1:05:51 China Report an error in the passage at 1:05:51
1:06:07 recently saw a little snippet newspaper of China recognizing a high level incarnation in a young child. I wonder whether that was or it... Well, I think it was a good sign, you know, in a rather kind of depressing scene, because usually the Chinese, the red Chinese government's been very oppressive to the Tibetan, could Report an error in the passage at 1:06:07
1:06:48 be. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:48
1:07:13 Yeah, those things are, those things are very... Like the Tibetan reincarnated lamas, that's something we don't have in Theravāda Buddhism. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:13
1:07:33 So to me that doesn't, you know, even though it doesn't mean very much to me, that kind of thing, reincarnated lamas, even though I have nothing against it, it doesn't arouse faith or any interest. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:33
1:07:58 But some people have done. They find that very interesting or wonderful in itself. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:58
1:08:11 And this is why we're doing what we're doing. I couldn't be a Christian or a Tibetan Buddhist because that spark that sets you off didn't ignite where it did in this. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:11
1:08:33 And that's where, then that's individual. You can't just say everyone is going to have the same experience. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:33
1:09:03 So that's why there's, you know, room for, they say, you know, there's I think a Tibetan saying, what, 500 monks, 500 ways. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:03
1:09:20 Something like that. Ajahn. Each one of us is really developing our own way. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:20
1:09:37 Like being the monks and nuns here, oftentimes you assume that the things that work for you should work for them. And then you feel frustrated when sometimes what seems to be really helpful and useful to you doesn't seem to help them at all. You think, well, it should. But then you have to realize, actually, what Ajahn Chah did was encourage you to develop your own skillful means, not tell you what you had to do, because he did it this way that we were expected to, but he actually was one who encouraged that ability of the human mind to... Report an error in the passage at 1:09:37
1:10:29 To develop your path through skillful means, which means that even though you, you know what I say, like when I talk about my own practice, it's merely as an example, not as a kind of teaching that you should do exactly what I've done. So when I talk about the way I meditate or things that have worked for me or... Report an error in the passage at 1:10:29
1:11:00 Even being a monk is not to say that that's what you should be doing or you should do exactly what I do, but more of an example of how one person, one individual dealt with his karma. So Report an error in the passage at 1:11:00
1:11:30 I think I'll retire. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:30
Related talks
Talk by Ajahn Sumedho. Original at Amaravati Buddhist Monastery via Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/ajahn-sumedho-dhamma-talks. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.
Talks of Ajahn Sumedho, archived on Internet Archive. More from Amaravati