Love and Beauty - Q and A (1994)

0:00 Well, that's the cultural problem, really. Because oftentimes we, you know, just like the word God, is a very cultural, it's a cultural perception. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:18 And yet people will talk about it and say, do you believe in God? And this is like, God is something, you know, that we all know what it is. We all know who God is. And some believe and some don't believe, but it's like taken for granted. But yet, when you ask somebody what they mean by that, you know, they have difficulty explaining. Report an error in the passage at 0:18 Highlight the passage at 0:18

0:42 And of course, God can be, you know, like a fundamentalist Christian. God is usually racist and sees all of Buddhism as satanic. I mean, the... God can, you know, we create God, but Report an error in the passage at 0:42 Highlight the passage at 0:42

1:22 language and all like cultural conditioning is interesting to watch because it's also, you know, it's instilled in us when we're still very innocent, when we have, you know, you're brought up in a culture, in a family, and you get all your... Your conditioning from that, your early conditioning, when you have nothing to compare it with. So you get the whole bit. Report an error in the passage at 1:22 Highlight the passage at 1:22

1:52 And all your parents' prejudices and views along with it. Some good, some horrible. And you get the conceit. Report an error in the passage at 1:52 Highlight the passage at 1:52

2:07 Just like, say, the American conditioning. Myself. I haven't lived in the States for 30 years. And I've lived in Asia, in Thailand, Malaysia, in India, and in Britain for the past 30 years. And so you do get, because you're outside your own, you're not being reinforced a lot through the American system, you do get a kind of perspective on it. Report an error in the passage at 2:07 Highlight the passage at 2:07

2:36 And one thing I noticed was the, even though I wouldn't consider myself itself a of I personally don't like the idea of the American tendency to think America's the best and that Americans do things better than everyone else. Yet this is how the cultural conditioning works. So in my discriminative mind, I wouldn't... Report an error in the passage at 2:36 Highlight the passage at 2:36

3:12 I wouldn't want to think like that, but I could see emotionally that that's oftentimes how one is feeling. And then you say, especially like living in a forest monastery in Thailand, where you're coming from a very sophisticated kind of middle-class situation in the States to a very kind of primitive life in a forest monastery where it's very basic. Report an error in the passage at 3:12 Highlight the passage at 3:12

3:43 And so you're, I mean, on the material level. Actually, the life in the monastery was much more sophisticated in the sense that it was wise and based on wisdom and on virtuousness, where the life in the States wasn't. But the cultural conditioning showed up quite... Obviously, in the context of a Thai forest monastery, I could see these kind of assumptions, cultural assumptions, and also living here in Britain, you can see what it is the difference between what an American is and what an English person, on the level of conditioning, cultural conditioning. Report an error in the passage at 3:43 Highlight the passage at 3:43

4:37 But then we stand out, we're getting beyond that level too. Because we're not that either. Like with mindfulness, you're getting to the universal, which doesn't belong to any culture. So this way, you're not being just caught into a victim of your conditioning, or where you appreciate. Different cultures, without saying one is better than the other, or that your particular one is, if you've been brought up to think that it's the best, you can see that merely as a condition of the mind, rather than as something that you operate from, a position that you operate from. Report an error in the passage at 4:37 Highlight the passage at 4:37

5:36 So in the purity of the mind, then the human problems, cultural problems, political problems, all those can be solved. Because then there's, you know, because we're not, we haven't an axe to grind. We're not identified. We're not trying to dominate or promote one condition over another or convert people or dominate them in any way. Report an error in the passage at 5:36 Highlight the passage at 5:36

6:05 We're interested in finding ways of living in harmony. And helping each other, supporting that which is good, and trying to not develop ways of acting or speaking that harm or confuse or demean others. Report an error in the passage at 6:05 Highlight the passage at 6:05

6:34 But as I say, you're from Sri Lanka, I assume? From India. They like the word dharma. It's a... Report an error in the passage at 6:34 Highlight the passage at 6:34

6:50 I mean, for many Westerners, it's an Indian word or Buddhist word. And so it's... We think of it as... And in religious interfaith groups, oftentimes, they believe in something called dharma, and then they want to define it in some way. And Allah is different than God, or, you know... Report an error in the passage at 6:50 Highlight the passage at 6:50

7:21 Shiva and Vishnu, how we can get carried away by the terminology. But the whole religious experience is outside the terminology. And where religions become sectarian is where we cling to the terminology. Then, of course, we're just emphasizing the differences, the separateness. Report an error in the passage at 7:21 Highlight the passage at 7:21

7:50 Because they are different, separate. conditions, conventions. So you just end up reinforcing a sense of separation and alienation. But that's not what, to me, if a religion is a universal religion, then it's not doing that to you. Report an error in the passage at 7:50 Highlight the passage at 7:50

8:14 That's where these kind of categorical judgments or, you know, this is one thing that I found very Very irritating with Christianity was that they would always say that the Christians are right and everyone else is wrong. And then you knew they didn't know that. And everybody supported that. It happened in Sussex because this vicar questions the common view of God in West Sussex. Report an error in the passage at 8:14 Highlight the passage at 8:14

8:56 Then he's like thrown out because he questions it. Or they say he denies. He says there isn't any. But he didn't say that. It's just the reaction. Because they're so attached to their own viewpoint. So they just create division and separation. All you can do is excommunicate. With Buddhism, there's no way you can excommunicate anyone. Report an error in the passage at 8:56 Highlight the passage at 8:56

9:33 because that, yeah, it's this. Report an error in the passage at 9:33 Highlight the passage at 9:33

9:40 But that's not the Buddhist teaching. That's a human defilement. Well, Report an error in the passage at 9:40 Highlight the passage at 9:40

10:03 he's right. I agree. The king of Thailand is the protector of all religions in Thailand. He protects the Muslims, the Hindus, the Christians, as well as the Buddhists. Report an error in the passage at 10:03 Highlight the passage at 10:03

10:19 And that's part of the kingly duty in a proper king, in terms of an Asian, Asian values, is that they're a protector of religions. Report an error in the passage at 10:19 Highlight the passage at 10:19

10:33 Now the king himself is a Buddhist, but he, you know, he practices Buddhist meditation, but he really does, you know, he... The southern provinces of Thailand are mainly Muslim. And he goes there and into mosques and various and feels part of his duty is to protect the Muslims in Thailand or the Christians. Report an error in the passage at 10:33 Highlight the passage at 10:33

11:06 And to me that's very admirable. Where people say, I'm going to only protect the Buddhists. Boot out the Muslims. Now then I wouldn't have much respect for him. Report an error in the passage at 11:06 Highlight the passage at 11:06

11:22 And I think Prince Charles is more like that than saying I'm the head of the Church of England and that's all I care about, that's all I'm going to protect. Report an error in the passage at 11:22 Highlight the passage at 11:22

11:58 It's like you've got this beautiful jewel and over the years it gets all these kind of ornaments around it. Beautiful, that's filigree. But after a while you forget what the jewel is, that it's there. You get dazzled by the, or you just end up looking at the kind of ornamentation, trying to figure out what it all means. Report an error in the passage at 11:58 Highlight the passage at 11:58

12:26 When you take it out, take the ornamentation off, then there's just that, like the pure diamond, the crystal. Report an error in the passage at 12:26 Highlight the passage at 12:26

13:01 It's really, I think, Report an error in the passage at 13:01 Highlight the passage at 13:01

13:10 People are, like my sister, for example, is very, she's pursued the Christian path, and I think she's done, you know, she's very, done very well. Report an error in the passage at 13:10 Highlight the passage at 13:10

13:25 She's Catholic, and she lives, she keeps this Franciscan rule, third order of Franciscans, and she's developed, I taught her Ānāpānasati years ago, she practices. Mindfulness of the Breath. And she's a very devout Christian, but her whole tendency was never to doubt it. And she's a very loyal type of person. So her loyalty, that kind of virtue, gave her a lot of strength to kind of keep her within the Christian convention. Report an error in the passage at 13:25 Highlight the passage at 13:25

14:06 And then the result is that she's... She seems to have, you know, she seems to be very developed spiritually within that. And she's quite open and she's always been very supportive and encouraging to me as a Buddhist. Report an error in the passage at 14:06 Highlight the passage at 14:06

14:30 And she's quite proud of me, actually. I think she loves to tell all her Catholic friends that her brother's a Buddhist monk. Report an error in the passage at 14:30 Highlight the passage at 14:30

14:44 But I didn't, but it's interesting, it could mean brother and sister, but I didn't have the same confidence in the Christian. I felt repelled by it. I felt real revulsion for Christianity. And yet I was, you know, felt a strong religious pull of some spiritual direction. Report an error in the passage at 14:44 Highlight the passage at 14:44

15:16 But, you know, at one point, before I just came across Buddhism, I couldn't figure out what to do about it. It just, you know, it was confusing. Because if you couldn't, you know, the only religion I knew was Christianity, in which I didn't feel attracted to at all. Then what do you do? So then, of course, doors open up and things happen. You meet or get the right information. Report an error in the passage at 15:16 Highlight the passage at 15:16

15:45 But now, I would say that... Because I was baptized also. I have the mark, just like you. Report an error in the passage at 15:45 Highlight the passage at 15:45

15:57 But I don't see, I quite like that also, because I don't see any conflict anymore. Because one thing, the dhamma has helped me to understand the nature of conventions and the Buddhist perspective is like the... The elephant's footprint, it's described as a metaphor of the elephant's footprint. All other footprints fit inside it. Report an error in the passage at 15:57 Highlight the passage at 15:57

16:24 You know, the biggest footprint in the jungle is the elephant's footprint. And so even my footprint would fit inside an elephant's. I've got very big feet. Report an error in the passage at 16:24 Highlight the passage at 16:24

16:45 This is a metaphor. Christianity and all conventions can be seen in terms of dharma, which isn't a kind of diminishing their value or patronizing them or just trying to assimilate them or dismiss them. But it's a way of pointing to a universal rather than giving so much. Than getting people to attach to a particular convention. Now, you say, well then, what are you a Theravāda and Buddhist? Report an error in the passage at 16:45 Highlight the passage at 16:45

17:19 I say, on a conventional level, yes. This is the tool. This is the instrument. It's like if you're going to play the cello, that doesn't mean you're criticizing all the other musical instruments, does it? So you... It means that maybe that's the one you feel attracted to. That's the one that inspires you or gives you the energy to spend monotonous hours practicing boring musical exercises in order to be able to play the instrument. Report an error in the passage at 17:19 Highlight the passage at 17:19

17:57 But it's not a proclamation that the cello is the best or the only instrument worth learning. But say a good celloist, good pianist, good violinist, and all the rest, when they become really good, then they can play in an orchestra, make beautiful music. Report an error in the passage at 17:57 Highlight the passage at 17:57

18:26 But if nobody learns to play their instrument very well, then of course it's pretty awful to listen to. Report an error in the passage at 18:26 Highlight the passage at 18:26

18:38 You know, even if you've got the best piano in the world, The best made it. It's certified that this piano is absolutely the best. But the pianist isn't any good. Report an error in the passage at 18:38 Highlight the passage at 18:38

18:53 We still want to get up and leave when they start playing it. It is not the piano, is it? It's the player of the instrument. Report an error in the passage at 18:53 Highlight the passage at 18:53