Principles and Compassion – Q and A

0:00 About the dharma, that is. No political questions or... Buddhism Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:11 in tandem with some other faith. Report an error in the passage at 0:11 Highlight the passage at 0:11

0:18 Well, it's... If you really... What the Buddha did was he... How do you say? He provided a kind of... a paradigm or a pattern that... is a universal one. And you can fit all of the faith into this pattern. Report an error in the passage at 0:18 Highlight the passage at 0:18

0:52 It's often described as the elephant's footprint. You see, because it, like the simile, is that all other footprints are smaller and so they fit into the elephant's. And not that that is a kind of Over exaggeration, exaggeration of the Buddhist teaching, but he did, he approached it from a universal pattern, which is based on like the perennial philosophy of the condition relating to the unconditioned. Report an error in the passage at 0:52 Highlight the passage at 0:52

1:26 And so that is to be realized, you see, in which then the conditioned realm, the mortal realm, is always in a perspective to the immortal. or the unconditioned. This is where Buddhism tends to become cultish and sectarian when it forgets that and gets caught up maybe with ideals or with various attitudes or positions. Report an error in the passage at 1:26 Highlight the passage at 1:26

2:02 But basically, to me, that is the significance of the Buddhist teaching is that And in the Report an error in the passage at 2:02 Highlight the passage at 2:02

2:09 It isn't a denial of any other religion. It's not up to us to decide whether Jesus Christ lived or didn't. That which is truth that Jesus taught, we would respect and see it in terms of dharma. But the opinions of Christianity, we tend to see as forms of grasping rather than as truths. And this way you can appreciate the different perspectives that other religions have, like, say, Christianity with its emphasis on a universal savior, or in Islam with its emphasis on the Koran, or even the various kind of... Report an error in the passage at 2:09 Highlight the passage at 2:09

3:09 perspectives of Hinduism which range from you know all possible forms of symbolism to the Advaita kind of Advaita Vedanta approach which is very similar to Buddhism. So Report an error in the passage at 3:09 Highlight the passage at 3:09

3:29 in I noticed like interfaith meetings here in Britain sometimes you get Buddhists that are very attached to being Buddhists then they can be very The Lord's Prayer And of course then the Buddha is thinking, I'm not going to say that. Report an error in the passage at 3:29 Highlight the passage at 3:29

4:17 We can be quite huffy about it. But actually there's no reason why we can't say that. It's a valid perspective. Report an error in the passage at 4:17 Highlight the passage at 4:17

4:33 Like I was contemplating, like monistic, to, I Report an error in the passage at 4:33 Highlight the passage at 4:33

4:40 Terminologies which are very inspiring usually, like Sufism is very monistic in the way it presents itself. So oftentimes you feel very inspired by Sufi poetry and this sense of oneness and totality and everything being God. I mean, it's so all-inclusive. And one realizes that that inspires the human mind. I find monistic religious terminology inspiring. And then the kind of Buddhist approach, which is, or like Theravāda, which is like non-dualistic. Report an error in the passage at 4:40 Highlight the passage at 4:40

5:30 It's what they call non-dualism. And that doesn't inspire. I mean, the terminologies aren't inspiring. Because it's based on negation, on seeing that it's not this or not that, and on no self and on emptiness. And so these don't tend to inspire. Where words like love and compassion and oneness and the one mind and all is love and all is beauty. Report an error in the passage at 5:30 Highlight the passage at 5:30

6:06 And we're celebrating the beauty of the universe and the miracle of humanity, and this inspires the mind. And then, say, the non-dualistic terminologies do not inspire, but they're more practical, because you're trying to let go of the inspired conditions in order to see what's actually the way things are. Report an error in the passage at 6:06 Highlight the passage at 6:06

6:37 Which is not to be perceived as any way, but to be just noticed the way it is, you know, in this pattern of the condition arising and ceasing. And then the cessation of a condition is through realizing the cessation of condition, you realize the unconditioned or the immortal. Report an error in the passage at 6:37 Highlight the passage at 6:37

7:07 It's more pragmatic than inspiring. But the danger is to take Theravāda teachings and put them in a context of kind of absolute doctrinal positions. That's where oftentimes people misunderstand. They think we believe that there's no self, which is not. not isn't is is not We're looking at belief rather than believing that there is a self or there is no self, or believing that there's a soul or there isn't any, or believing in God or believing there isn't any, because one is really, it's the same function of mind, whether you believe in God or don't believe in God, you're working from a viewpoint, from a conditioned position, And then, which you might prefer. You know, some people like to believe in God. Other people can't stand the idea. But what you can see, I mean, whatever you find, what inclination you have, you can see as a kind of movement of your mind, rather than just following the movement blindly. Report an error in the passage at 7:07 Highlight the passage at 7:07

8:28 The Report an error in the passage at 8:28 Highlight the passage at 8:28

8:38 what? Ātman, right. Well, Report an error in the passage at 8:38 Highlight the passage at 8:38

8:57 in Hinduism, they... Because Hinduism is highly metaphysical in its approach, and they've developed metaphysics, brilliant metaphysics, and so they come from the Brahmin and the Ātman kind of metaphysical conventions. conventions uh... and Report an error in the passage at 8:57 Highlight the passage at 8:57

9:32 Which is also, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but the danger of that lies in believing in something called Ātman, rather than realizing the truth. Which is, you see, like the Buddha, if you really examine, especially in the Theravāda, which is the one I know the best, the... The anattā or anatman, no self, is a tool to be able to look at all the things that you believe in and think of and take for granted and assume. Report an error in the passage at 9:32 Highlight the passage at 9:32

10:16 All the views about yourself or about God or about Ātman or about Buddha or anything. And some of these views are maybe or not. Report an error in the passage at 10:16 Highlight the passage at 10:16

10:56 ...was refraining from going that far, always to stay to emphasizing dharma rather than ātman, in which ātman seems to... I can see that working also in the Hindu system, but the Buddha refrained from taking that position, making a metaphysical statement about... Because he was just pointing to its realization, more as a pragmatic realization rather than a metaphysical doctrinal position. Report an error in the passage at 10:56 Highlight the passage at 10:56

11:39 And of course, because of that, the Hindus tend to think Buddha was an atheist or someone who was denying In making a kind of metaphysical negation rather than merely offering a means to realize the end of suffering. And the Buddha actually made it very clear. He says, I teach suffering and the end of suffering. He wasn't teaching metaphysics. Because the end of suffering is a metaphysical realization. Report an error in the passage at 11:39 Highlight the passage at 11:39

12:20 It's the real thing rather than a concept. Because it's easy, the tendency to grasp the concept is so strong. Just like the word God in the West, in the Christian, Jewish communities, tends to, I mean, God is a pagan word. Report an error in the passage at 12:20 Highlight the passage at 12:20

12:48 It's the German word for Thor, or Scandinavian, or Nordic. At least in the Hebrew, they have... Yahweh is something that is more, if you take the original meaning, it's more like dhamma than God in the sense of a patriarchal overlord that God tends to be conceived of in the Christian mind. Report an error in the passage at 12:48 Highlight the passage at 12:48

13:24 And so, you know, Christian mysticism has taken Christian Christian toward a realization. Report an error in the passage at 13:24 Highlight the passage at 13:24

13:35 that tends to more of in spite of the convention than because of it. Because the what the church generally tends to encourage is attachment to these things rather than non-attachment. Report an error in the passage at 13:35 Highlight the passage at 13:35

14:00 if you read like... People like Martha Eckhart, then you're teaching non-attachment or letting go of God. Don Cupert in Cambridge, he's been highly condemned by the Anglican Church for suggesting such things. But I understand what he's saying as a Buddhist, because it's not like throwing away God, but letting go of your view, of your opinion, of your perception, rather than denying, Report an error in the passage at 14:00 Highlight the passage at 14:00

14:34 The position of denial or rejection of God, which is what I would call an atheist, someone who's against, who's taken a position against God, where the theist is one who takes a position for God. Neither of them are realizing God or realizing truth. Report an error in the passage at 14:34 Highlight the passage at 14:34

14:58 Another interesting thing is, I remember when Ajahn Chah was here years ago in England and they made the BBC film, The Buddha comes to Sussex, and I remember this. I was there when they were making the film at some church in Sussex, and the vicar was saying, is the Buddhist God and the Christian God the same? Report an error in the passage at 14:58 Highlight the passage at 14:58

15:29 Well, no, no, the Buddhist truth and the Christian truth, is it the same? And trying to translate this into Thai. Or Ajahn Chah, and he looked a bit bewildered and said, how can there be two ultimate truths? Report an error in the passage at 15:29 Highlight the passage at 15:29

15:47 Logically, you know, if it's ultimate, it can only be one. But then the mind can even conceive that there's a Buddhist ultimate truth and a Christian ultimate truth. And sometimes that's how we tend to think, isn't it? That the Muslims, their ultimate truth is different than ours. You know, we think because the conventions are different, that the ultimate truth, or the direction, what we're actually, the conventions pointing to, is two different things. Report an error in the passage at 15:47 Highlight the passage at 15:47

16:22 But when you investigate it further, you realize that the ultimate truth is ultimate truth, and it's to be realized, and it's not, it doesn't belong to anybody or any religion. Report an error in the passage at 16:22 Highlight the passage at 16:22

16:38 Like Christian truth, Buddhist truth, it's not... It's not, you don't need to have, you don't need to put, attach an adjective to it. Truth is truth. Report an error in the passage at 16:38 Highlight the passage at 16:38

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17:53 Yes, Report an error in the passage at 17:53 Highlight the passage at 17:53

18:03 it is a, I mean this is where we need to learn our own language. Like how to... many people adhering to those Report an error in the passage at 18:03 Highlight the passage at 18:03

18:00 get out, code works. Yes. Report an error in the passage at 18:00 Highlight the passage at 18:00

18:14 How to say things in the right way, because sometimes we think that we all mean the same thing with various words and concepts. Like, do you believe in God? I assume that the word God means the same to you as it does to me. Or the word consciousness can be defined in so many different ways, by scientists or... Report an error in the passage at 18:14 Highlight the passage at 18:14

18:44 And sometimes we think we understand, but we don't, because we haven't defined our terms. And this is where, like in Buddhist practice, what they tend to do is we use these dharma teachings, like the Pāli Canon and the scripture, Report an error in the passage at 18:44 Highlight the passage at 18:44

19:12 Not because it's a sacred text that we must treasure, but because it's a standard of reference and a way of speaking that we all agree to use. And if you use that, then we can talk to each other about what's actually happening to us. And because we've agreed on how to use the language and what we mean. Report an error in the passage at 19:12 Highlight the passage at 19:12

19:38 Where if you're trying to, like the danger with... With like comparative religion is to assume that Islam is just another version of Christianity in different terms. Or maybe, you know, it's a different approach. Its emphasis is different. But we tend to, we would say as a Christian, one might compare it to Christian terms and then get it all wrong, misunderstand it. Report an error in the passage at 19:38 Highlight the passage at 19:38

20:11 Because we're interpreting it from the significance of our own Christian conditioning. And a Muslim would be interpreting it from their own Muslim conditioning. And even though the Christian and Muslim might be speaking together in English, yet their assumptions can be very different about what they're saying and the significance that they give various perceptions. Report an error in the passage at 20:11 Highlight the passage at 20:11

20:40 And so you find, you know, sometimes communication going like this, other than actually, you know, communicating, you're going around and getting nowhere. So oftentimes in your faith meetings, you just say the most tolerant, benign things and smile to avoid any kind of, because nobody quite knows how to approach the subject. Report an error in the passage at 20:40 Highlight the passage at 20:40

21:08 And then Christianity, It has very much emphasized doctrines and attributes. And this is interesting because the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church now, has a lot of interest in emptiness, not because their churches are empty. Report an error in the passage at 21:08 Highlight the passage at 21:08

21:39 If that was the case, the Anglican Church should be more interested in emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 21:39 Highlight the passage at 21:39

21:48 But because like voidness, emptiness, this is like something that has never been really investigated in Christianity, in Christian theology. And so it's, you have these, like there's a recent book out, somebody called Mitchell, put out by the Paulist Press on emptiness, what's it called? Report an error in the passage at 21:48 Highlight the passage at 21:48

22:19 But he's a Catholic theologian who's writing about emptiness, or shunyata, and comparing this with various Buddhist teachings of emptiness. And then there's Ramon Panicar, who's a Catholic priest. His mother was Spanish and his father Indian. And he's quite elderly. But he's written... He's written a very interesting book called The Silence of God, which he quotes from Buddhist texts about the Buddhist silence, the strength of the Buddhist silence as a response, rather than always trying to answer somebody's questions with concepts. Report an error in the passage at 22:19 Highlight the passage at 22:19

23:09 Because there are certain questions the Buddha would not answer, and the Buddha remained silent. And these silences of the Buddha, oftentimes interpreted by his critics as he didn't know, but Raymond Pramacar is seeing this as an answer, a direct pointing to a realization of non-attachment or emptiness rather than a dumb silence because you can't figure out what to say. Report an error in the passage at 23:09 Highlight the passage at 23:09

23:39 And Report an error in the passage at 23:39 Highlight the passage at 23:39

23:47 I like this very much because I wouldn't have expected it from Roman Catholics, at least I never did. They used to be the most closed-minded people I can remember meeting. But there is a searching and an obviously awareness of a need to just go beyond a fixed kind of doctrinal position proclaimed by the church organization and trying to bring back a kind of religious I was training Report an error in the passage at 23:47 Highlight the passage at 23:47

24:43 in a school and I decided at that time I would I would study Roman Catholicism. So I started going to Roman Catholic kind of classes where you have to go attend these classes and then you can, after you finish this series of classes, you can become a Roman Catholic. So I was attending these classes and going to the services on Sunday and it was the Marian year. Report an error in the passage at 24:43 Highlight the passage at 24:43

25:16 It's called the Marian year. And of course the services were all around Mary. So you'd sit there and they'd do these litanies. And Mary, Queen of the Snow, Mary, Star of the Night, Mary, Queen of Heaven, Mary this, Mary that. And so I thought, I don't know what this is about. Why do we do this? What's the significance of Mary? Report an error in the passage at 25:16 Highlight the passage at 25:16

25:41 So I went to the priest and said, why do we do this? And he said, well, he said, nowadays, you see, Humanity, you can't go directly to Jesus anymore, or to God, before you could, you know, you've got to go through Mary, you pray to Mary, she takes up your case, goes to Jesus, and if he thinks it's worth talking about, he'll go to God. Report an error in the passage at 25:41 Highlight the passage at 25:41

26:10 And Report an error in the passage at 26:10 Highlight the passage at 26:10

26:13 that sounded too much like the chain of command in the military to me. Report an error in the passage at 26:13 Highlight the passage at 26:13

26:20 I just lost all interest. Report an error in the passage at 26:20 Highlight the passage at 26:20

26:27 It's like, you know, a puerile kind of attitude. You go to mom first, soften her up, and then she... Report an error in the passage at 26:27 Highlight the passage at 26:27

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27:06 dark, I'm waiting to live for now. think I'm going to be able to do that. I don't think I'm going to do that. Report an error in the passage at 27:06 Highlight the passage at 27:06

27:20 a little way. It's like telling, you know, the young man, they miss the man. people tend to feel that animals are better than us, and I can never confuse don't know what they mean, because they seem to lose their mind. Report an error in the passage at 27:20 Highlight the passage at 27:20

27:39 We have a much more tortured existence because we have memories we can remember. If you don't have to remember things, life would be a lot easier. If you could just respond to life, react according to... You know, without having to think about yourself, just be whatever you're feeling. But we're very self-conscious and this is a kind of torture chamber of our mind because you're always, I mean, we worry about what other people think of us or we have standards of right and wrong and we're... Report an error in the passage at 27:39 Highlight the passage at 27:39

28:35 And then we have very strong assumptions and views about ourselves and our worth or our lack of worth. And so this is the torture chamber of our human mind. This is the suffering. But then, see, because of that suffering, and that's why the Buddha pointed to suffering, because through understanding that suffering, you transcend the conditioning. Report an error in the passage at 28:35 Highlight the passage at 28:35

29:04 And the misery that you create out of this memory and self-consciousness. Then, say, you've got the spontaneity that the animals have, but you've also got the wisdom of the Buddha. So that your ability, you can realize, well, the animal world is very much bound within its own limits. Report an error in the passage at 29:04 Highlight the passage at 29:04

29:35 It is what it is, but it can't transcend itself in any way. So, say, the cat killing the mouse, that's why you can't say it's immoral or that it's wrong, because that's what cats do. Report an error in the passage at 29:35 Highlight the passage at 29:35

29:56 But the animal world also has tremendous fear, you see. They're motivated by fear. And because it's a survival of the fittest and things like that. So if you notice, like wild animals, they're like a squirrel on land. It's not in a tree. It's very frightened. It's aware that it can be killed by farts or a dog. And there's no moral agreement. Report an error in the passage at 29:56 Highlight the passage at 29:56

30:30 It's all just a sense of survival. ...of the species, of the fittest. And so the animal world is a fear-ridden realm. Report an error in the passage at 30:30 Highlight the passage at 30:30

30:43 It is what it is, and it has its beauty, and its intelligence, and its conscience, but it's not reflective. And this is where I see our humanity is such a great gift, because even though it... realm. Report an error in the passage at 30:43 Highlight the passage at 30:43

31:02 It increases the pain we have and makes us even more frightened than the animals. It also gives us the ability to get beyond the fear. Report an error in the passage at 31:02 Highlight the passage at 31:02

31:14 That's where your reflective mind is the way. Rather than just trying to live in a cocoon of safety, where you think you've got everything under control and nothing can hurt you, because that is what we tend to do. Report an error in the passage at 31:14 Highlight the passage at 31:14

31:33 If we don't know how to, you know, if we don't have this insight, then we tend to want to, you know, feel this need to protect ourselves all the time. And this is what, like civilization, why we have, why the Cold War, you know, these enormous buildup of weaponry was an attempt to protect ourselves. From possibilities of being overwhelmed by the opposite. And Report an error in the passage at 31:33 Highlight the passage at 31:33

32:08 self-consciousness is extremely painful because it tends towards being critical. I think in the Western world very much, in European civilization, whether it's, I mean, it's like talking to Report an error in the passage at 32:08 Highlight the passage at 32:08

32:36 I heard the Dalai Lama said one time about people asking him about whether Tibetans feel this kind of continuous sense of worthlessness and guilt about themselves. And the Dalai Lama said no. He said Tibetan people generally like themselves. They like who they are and they do suffer from various things but basically they're Their self-view is one that they, is a positive one. And then in, with Tai, I noticed, Tanjakun Panyananda, when he was here one time, he was asked the same question about guilt, and he, and we had a hard time explaining just exactly what guilt is. Report an error in the passage at 32:36 Highlight the passage at 32:36

33:29 You know, he was explaining it in Thai, too, and then he said, oh, he said, yeah, that's, That's a minor mental irritation. And I said, here in the West, that is a major, that is a major mental irritation. And I could see with him, like Tencho Kumpanyananda, he likes himself, basically. He's got a confidence and a bulliness that comes from, I think, basically appreciating his own worth. Report an error in the passage at 33:29 Highlight the passage at 33:29

34:08 And not being caught in a lot of self-criticism. And living in Thailand, I know, like Ajahn Chah seemed to basically respect himself. I think that was even before he was a monk. I mean, it's more part of a cultural attitude than it is individual. Whereas our cultural attitude is to, like, born in sin. Report an error in the passage at 34:08 Highlight the passage at 34:08

34:37 We're seeing these perceptions that we're fallen, we're born in sin, we are sinners, therefore. Women, of course, feel that they're temptresses, that they made Adam fall. And I mean, all these perceptions, whether you believe them or not, they still are kind of ingrained in the cultural attitudes. Whether you like it or not, that's how you're conditioned. And a lot of your self-worth comes from that. Report an error in the passage at 34:37 Highlight the passage at 34:37

35:14 You know, your sense of yourself being a sinner, or things like Western women oftentimes have this tremendous insecurity, a feeling that, you know, very insecure within themselves that there's something wrong with being a woman. Things like this, so that it... You probably can trace it to assumptions in a culture, maybe that you're not directly fed, maybe you could be brought up in a society, in a family that was against all that kind of thinking, but yet the karma of that attitude is still affecting the cultural conditioning. Report an error in the passage at 35:14 Highlight the passage at 35:14

35:57 And I know from my own experience as a monk, was beginning to see that as conditioning rather than as, it's so close, so kind of basic and not all that kind of clear that it's hard to see sometimes. It's hard to see it objectively. And just like in monastic life, you can, you know, more and more you begin to realize this sense of feeling, a basic sense of feeling like worthless. Report an error in the passage at 35:57 Highlight the passage at 35:57

36:37 Which one used to take personally, like maybe it's just my neurotic hang-up. But then when you're teaching other people and you begin to talk to other monks or nuns, you realize they all feel the same way. Report an error in the passage at 36:37 Highlight the passage at 36:37

36:51 It's kind of there in a way that isn't just kind of personal individual hang-up. Report an error in the passage at 36:51 Highlight the passage at 36:51

37:05 But also, it causes us a lot of suffering. So in that suffering, well, if we use it in the right way, it takes us beyond the suffering. Because even, you know, Thais and Tibetans still suffer a lot. Report an error in the passage at 37:05 Highlight the passage at 37:05

37:30 course this thing of not feeling and it makes one not be natural. you've got to learn to be natural as well as one's self-esteem. Report an error in the passage at 37:30 Highlight the passage at 37:30

37:42 there was this act that's going on. And to be natural, you need to trust, you need to have faith. Because you can't, if you try to be natural, you end up not being. But it's like when you really feel a sense of your own worth and the kind of miracle that you really are, not as an egotistical perception, but just through insight, then you trust, you have a sense of... Report an error in the passage at 37:42 Highlight the passage at 37:42

38:15 You have a right to be here. You don't have to defend your existence or prove yourself. I think that's very much what we feel we always have to do. I have to defend myself or prove myself. I don't have any right to just be here. I have to be here for a reason. Report an error in the passage at 38:15 Highlight the passage at 38:15

38:39 This is what I had. yourself. Report an error in the passage at 38:39 Highlight the passage at 38:39

38:45 When I was in India in February, I just felt, suddenly I realized, walking on the streets of Calcutta, I thought, that is a really wonderful feeling. Because Calcutta is a pretty grim place in one respect. But in India, you realize that Indians generally do not feel they have to defend their right to be. Report an error in the passage at 38:45 Highlight the passage at 38:45

39:10 That they can just, I mean, they're quite capable of sitting down right on the pavement. And just being there, you know. Report an error in the passage at 39:10 Highlight the passage at 39:10

39:23 We would just feel... What are you doing? You don't have any right to sit there. Report an error in the passage at 39:23 Highlight the passage at 39:23

39:36 And I suddenly realized why I liked India. Because in some respects one is shocked by things there. But also, you have a right, even though you're a foreigner or whatever... They still, they give you the right to be and to just exist in their environment without having to defend yourself. And I thought, yes, that's really the kind of pressures of Western life where you always feel, well, I can't just be here. Report an error in the passage at 39:36 Highlight the passage at 39:36

40:09 I've got to be going somewhere. I've got to be doing something. You know, I can't just be sitting here. I've got to, to prove my worth, I've got to be doing something. And Sister Sundar was telling me that she went home to visit her father last month, and she was sitting in the living room, and the cleaning lady came in, the woman who does the cleaning, and suddenly she found herself grabbing a newspaper. Report an error in the passage at 40:09 Highlight the passage at 40:09

40:42 papers. She felt suddenly very self-conscious that just sitting there was going to, she felt self-conscious and needed to be doing something that would be considered normal in this person's perceptions. Someone you hire to clean the house. Report an error in the passage at 40:42 Highlight the passage at 40:42

41:13 You can't even be at ease in your own house. Report an error in the passage at 41:13 Highlight the passage at 41:13

41:18 And I think that's one reason why Western people like to have private rooms and all that. The only time you feel you're not under pressure is when you're alone. Report an error in the passage at 41:18 Highlight the passage at 41:18

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42:17 Spiritualism. Well, there's like a whole psychic realm that people become fascinated by. And this psychic realm From what I know of spiritualism, which is not all that much, so just take that, and I'm not speaking from a position of authority, but from what I can tell, is that it very much is kind of tuning in to various energies and forces in the psychic realm. Report an error in the passage at 42:17 Highlight the passage at 42:17

43:11 I mean, there's one... I've heard these tapes from disincarnated... I've heard Oscar Wilde and Thomas Jefferson on tape. And he even said he had Marilyn Monroe. He didn't bring that here. But not to... I mean, like, I don't feel in any position to deny that or to... But I can still put it in terms of dharma. And that's what we want to, that's what we encourage is to see that it's still conditioning, you know, what you hear, what you believe, what you assume. Report an error in the passage at 43:11 Highlight the passage at 43:11

44:04 And psychic phenomena is still conditioned. It's not ultimate reality. It's not the unconditioned. It's not immortal. So that... Report an error in the passage at 44:04 Highlight the passage at 44:04

44:16 That the Buddha actually forbade monks, Buddhist monks, to dabble in the psychic. Because he said, like, sometimes these things are natural to various individuals, psychic abilities or powers. So it's not to be frightened of it or to deny it, but not to seek it either or to play around with it or to experiment with it. Report an error in the passage at 44:16 Highlight the passage at 44:16

44:47 Because it is an endless thing, you know. If one becomes fascinated by it, it takes you over. You become so interested in that kind of experience that you forget to transcend it. You forget to put it in its proper place. Report an error in the passage at 44:47 Highlight the passage at 44:47

45:12 So like in these realms after... I've talked to people who've had, what, clinical deaths? You know, like one woman I met a few years ago, actually, when she was about 16 years old, was clinically dead from a bicycle accident. And she said she saw herself... And they all talk in a very similar way. You know, it's not like a party line. Report an error in the passage at 45:12 Highlight the passage at 45:12

45:52 It's more... It seems that the experience is very much the same for everyone, except they might perceive it slightly different. Report an error in the passage at 45:52 Highlight the passage at 45:52

46:01 Like if you're a Christian, you might hear Jesus calling you or something, but if you're something else, you hear something else calling you, but if something's calling you, or some light, experience of light, and this kind of freedom from the body, and she could see herself lying in this operating room. Report an error in the passage at 46:01 Highlight the passage at 46:01

46:22 See her body lying there and she saw it and she realized it was her but she wasn't in the body anymore. She could see her family around you know crying and begging her to live and she felt this sense of joy of being released from the limitations of this body and then going up towards this light towards this experience of light. Report an error in the passage at 46:22 Highlight the passage at 46:22

46:50 Where there's a kind of joy and bliss. And this was so wonderful that she wanted to stay there. But her parents kept begging her to come back. So she did. She said that she just couldn't help it. Found herself going back. And then she came back to life in the body. And she told us, when I met her, she was in her, I think, 30s or so. Report an error in the passage at 46:50 Highlight the passage at 46:50

47:18 She said she never, of course, After that, she was never frightened of death and saw it as something to look forward to rather than to fear. But still, you know, Report an error in the passage at 47:18 Highlight the passage at 47:18

47:47 then you realize that the various ways spiritualists talk, you know, that these things are still, as long as one still has not resolved the karma, not awakened the dharma, then... Then there's always this coming back, this rebirth process taking place. And even the blissful states of out of the body or that are still, if you've not resolved the karma and the desires that affect you, then of course even the most blissful states are still temporary. Report an error in the passage at 47:47 Highlight the passage at 47:47

48:31 You inevitably have to return into some form to deal with these unresolved feelings or desires. So I look upon my life as this existence here in this life as opportunity to resolve my karma. I'm willing to go the whole way because I think I've probably been born so many times already. Report an error in the passage at 48:31 Highlight the passage at 48:31

49:05 Getting weary of the whole process. Well, Report an error in the passage at 49:05 Highlight the passage at 49:05

49:21 I mean, it's just an attitude. Like I see in monastic life, a chance to resolve things. Because you're, I mean, obviously that's why the Buddha established it in the way he did. Because it is, the kind of parameters of it are quite restricted. In action and speech. And so it helps to resolve a lot of things that you, a lot of habit tendencies and emotional patterns. Report an error in the passage at 49:21 Highlight the passage at 49:21

50:00 If you're really mindful in working with what you're experiencing. And I trusted that in in. Like coming to England 15 years ago, I thought then, you know, that one had to trust in the way, in the things that was happening, and that coming here to England was something I didn't seek or even want to do. Report an error in the passage at 50:00 Highlight the passage at 50:00

50:38 I wasn't like personally wanting to leave Thailand, because I'm quite happy in Thailand, like living there. And, you know, didn't really want to leave it. But it seemed to be what was moving in that, it seemed to be a natural kind of flow in my life. So I trusted in that and tried to always remind myself that whatever is happening to me is something I must learn from. Report an error in the passage at 50:38 Highlight the passage at 50:38

51:10 Even if, you know, and of course, in the past, Yeah, the Saṅgha here has gone through some pretty bumpy times, and I see that as part of the natural process, rather than as a kind of, you know, something going wrong. I see that, you know, at least in the way that I can operate and I can practice dharma, I will use, I'm using what is happening, what is... Report an error in the passage at 51:10 Highlight the passage at 51:10

51:48 What is affecting me? How things bring up various emotional states. And through allowing those emotions to be conscious, you can resolve them. Whereas on the conditioning level, one is always trying to maybe reject certain emotions and trying to always become something. Then you're still making karma. Report an error in the passage at 51:48 Highlight the passage at 51:48

52:28 feeling into consciousness then you can then you can resolve, you can let it go that seems to like it that ends, that it actually ends, you're seeing the ending of that particular thing And then you increasingly have a sense of lightness and of liberation rather than of being weighed down by the habits you have or the views of yourself. Report an error in the passage at 52:28 Highlight the passage at 52:28

53:05 today, because violent now, I Report an error in the passage at 53:05 Highlight the passage at 53:05

53:18 one does have it without being here, many I've had it, and reflecting on the experience. makes, with my own view, it makes me see how unreal this is, illusion, when I am outside of myself. Report an error in the passage at 53:18 Highlight the passage at 53:18

53:40 that in itself is a useful experience too. I agree with the word that it doesn't allow it. Right. again, not attaching to it. Right. Let the ego take over and be like, there was nothing to worry about. Report an error in the passage at 53:40 Highlight the passage at 53:40

53:58 Because then it's seen in terms of dharma rather than... You see, the danger of that is identification with it. Because then it can take you into madness or very wrong views about it. Report an error in the passage at 53:58 Highlight the passage at 53:58

54:17 But if you're seeking it also, then that means the desire to get something you don't have. But when it happens, then it's part of your karma. It's what you must learn from. Report an error in the passage at 54:17 Highlight the passage at 54:17

54:55 afraid or to be depressed, is this also an energy that you can turn in the opposite, in a circle? Right, like depressions usually, from suppression of things, where you're just caught in a negative state of mind. That seems to keep reinforcing itself. And there's no hope. There's no faith, no hope. I mean, when you're depressed, it's like total despair, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 54:55 Highlight the passage at 54:55

55:45 Well, it's like blocked energy. It's like something, you know, there's things holding it back. You're not flowing. You see, there's two extremes, indulgence or suppression. Like on violence, you're indulging in the energy in an impulsive, heedless way. And that is one extreme. And the other is to suppress it, to deny it, to reject it. And that indulgence creates bad karma with others. Report an error in the passage at 55:45 Highlight the passage at 55:45

56:23 I mean, to go around beating up people and that, you're creating, you know, you're going to be... You know, attacked yourself or imprisoned or shot or killed. Even if you get away with it, you still live in a state of fear of somebody taking retribution. Or if you're suppressing it, you might not be hurting anybody violently, but it's a kind of self-violence. Report an error in the passage at 56:23 Highlight the passage at 56:23

56:55 You tend to get sick and depressed. And, you know, it just kind of eats you up inside. And that is the opposite extreme. And then the middle way is channeling the energy so that it flows through you in a way that it's a blessing rather than a curse. And then your life is a blessing to others because you're... Report an error in the passage at 56:55 Highlight the passage at 56:55

57:30 How you relate, how what you do and your presence is coming through, is from compassion and joy rather than through self-consciousness, fear, desire. Report an error in the passage at 57:30 Highlight the passage at 57:30

57:46 And it's interesting to see how like the, just notice like a shock will, if something shocks you either physically or emotionally, you tend to contract. Like if you're in a state of shock, something in you contracts, you know. And like you talk to people who've been abused as children or things like that, you realize they must have been very shocked at a very young age. Report an error in the passage at 57:46 Highlight the passage at 57:46

58:24 And so they have this kind of contractedness. And this... This, of course, they get used to it. They get used to operating in that way. They can function maybe adequately, but still there's something never quite right. There's something still oppressing them, still not functioning properly, not a flow yet through them. Report an error in the passage at 58:24 Highlight the passage at 58:24

58:52 And so in trying to release these shocks, it takes a willingness to... To look at things and to learn how to energize the whole body and to release these blockages that come through traumas, physical or emotional traumas. Report an error in the passage at 58:52 Highlight the passage at 58:52

59:19 The more mindful you are, you realize how just little things can shock you and it still leaves its mark on you unless you're really consciously working through it. You could see how some people just develop maybe a lifetime of just increasingly being kind of ossified through these various shocks of life. Report an error in the passage at 59:19 Highlight the passage at 59:19

59:48 You have no way to resolve them. You see, you understand why people drink. There's one way of kind of having moments of relaxation and not being self-conscious. Report an error in the passage at 59:48 Highlight the passage at 59:48

1:00:04 When you're drunk, at least, you feel anything you say is not to be taken seriously. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:04 Highlight the passage at 1:00:04

1:00:15 Why the West went so overboard for drugs? It's interesting, because when I was in the Navy, I was in the Navy in the mid-50s, from 53 to 57, and of course in the military, you're... People drink a lot. In those days, they drank. But there were no drugs. People didn't even smoke marijuana. And sailors aren't exactly Puritans or prissy about these kind of things. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:15 Highlight the passage at 1:00:15

1:00:52 But these were just not available options to us at all. I was on a ship that sailed from San Francisco, and it would go over to Hawaii, to Japan. Hong Kong, Philippines, and the supply ship to American bases. The only problems then were alcoholism, no drug addicts. I didn't meet one drug addict in those four years. Drugs were just never an option in my life until the early 60s. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:52 Highlight the passage at 1:00:52

1:01:27 Then I was in graduate school in Berkeley and suddenly people started talking about marijuana. Smoking pot and things like this, and LSD and whatnot, these things were never even considerations before, at least in my experience of life. And yet, from that time on, you can see it just spread. Once those drugs became available and were options to people, Everybody wanted to try it out because at least in a drug state there's a sense of liberation from this stiff kind of rigidity of self-consciousness and fear. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:27 Highlight the passage at 1:01:27

1:02:15 And I think people found that a relief to just even get out of that kind of bondage. Like I found in my own mind, the way my mind was conditioned was so, it seemed so clumsy and so limited. And I thought to live a lifetime with just viewing life in this very black and white rigid way was so painful and so ugly that I thought of suicide as an alternative. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:15 Highlight the passage at 1:02:15

1:02:56 It would be better to... Slit the throat and to have to live with a mind that didn't have any flexibility in it. And at least there was an awareness of the misery, of just being stuck in a very conditioned attitude of black and white. I was brought up in absolutizing right and wrong, good and bad, in a very Christian kind of dualistic way. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:56 Highlight the passage at 1:02:56

1:03:24 And it was a very... Ugly kind of feeling to be stuck in just that way of thinking. When I came across Zen Buddhism in the Navy, that opened me up to the idea of paradoxes. I was fascinated by something being both good and bad. And that had never occurred to me in the way my mind is conditioned. It was either good or it was bad. It was black or white. Right or wrong. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:24 Highlight the passage at 1:03:24

1:03:57 And if it was right, then it was absolutely right. If it was wrong, it was absolutely wrong. It was very, very extreme polarization of perception. And there seemed to be no way to coordinate or to, you know, and it seemed absolutes, moral absolutes, where with the Zen Buddhist approach is kind of work with such things as something being good and bad or right and wrong at the same time. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:57 Highlight the passage at 1:03:57

1:04:28 And suddenly your mind suddenly is taking on a different dimension. Oh, there's some more flexibility possible there. And so that I could see was, in my experience in the States in the 50s, was there was a real searching among my generation to develop their minds out of this very rigid... Kind of Calvinistic, puritanical view. And then, of course, drugs, where Zen Buddhism is a fairly skillful way of doing it, drugs, of course, was much easier. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:28 Highlight the passage at 1:04:28

1:05:13 But also, the results could be disastrous. And then, like going to Thailand and... Report an error in the passage at 1:05:13 Highlight the passage at 1:05:13

1:05:30 Practicing meditation, then things began to, you know, we began to understand. If you follow the dharma teachings, you begin to see, you know, the suffering, the cause of suffering, the end of suffering within your own mind. You're not looking at it in kind of like macrocosmic proportions, but just in the kind of things that are happening to you. You're seeing how just letting go of certain attitudes. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:30 Highlight the passage at 1:05:30

1:06:01 The result of that letting go is a sense of more being at ease. And you begin to note that sense of ease, being at ease, rather than always trying to find happiness of some sort. You're more aware of a subtlety, a subtle form of ease and peacefulness within yourself that I wouldn't have noticed. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:01 Highlight the passage at 1:06:01

1:06:32 So easily, if I was just caught up in trying to find happiness and excitement, which I was very much doing before I became a monk, seeking happiness and pleasure, excitement. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:32 Highlight the passage at 1:06:32

1:07:00 Well, Zen, I think, as most Westerners, like here in England, it's very much ...aligned with Japanese Zen, which seems to be... It has its own kind of character. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:00 Highlight the passage at 1:07:00

1:07:28 And so... And then the Zen, oftentimes, Japanese Zen emphasizes these various schools, like Rinzai, Soto, and whatnot. And all of this is... Report an error in the passage at 1:07:28 Highlight the passage at 1:07:28

1:07:49 It's to develop mindfulness and insight. The goal, the aim is the same, but the actual style and technique can be different. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:49 Highlight the passage at 1:07:49

1:07:59 So you have, if you notice in a lot of Zen groups, they have a very Japanese flavor because that's the style of it. But its aim is to awaken the mind rather than to just... Make you into kind of a Zen, a kind of pseudo-Japanese Zen practitioner. And Theravāda, you see Theravāda doesn't, Theravāda tends to emphasize the Four Noble Truths. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:59 Highlight the passage at 1:07:59

1:08:43 And I've noticed with people that practice Zen, sometimes they've hardly ever heard or even know about the Four Noble Truths. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:43 Highlight the passage at 1:08:43

1:08:50 Because there's so much emphasis on the different schools, where the Theravāda is very much the practice, insight into the Four Noble Truths. And that I find, I mean, I prefer that, because I found that teaching really helpful. And that was an actual kind of... Fundamental teaching of the Buddha, the first sermon was on the Four Noble Truths. The thing that I've always, that impressed me about it is the fact that in itself it is quite complete. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:50 Highlight the passage at 1:08:50

1:09:33 It's a very, it's simple enough, you know, it's not, you know, Lungpo Cha used to say, you don't have to read all the scriptures, you know, just have practice with this and you'll get it. And because he was, he was not an academic, he was, Report an error in the passage at 1:09:33 Highlight the passage at 1:09:33

1:09:51 In Theravāda Buddhism, you have different monks that prefer different things, and you get sometimes a very academically inclined monk that has authority on the scriptures and knows the Abhidhamma and all that, but sometimes has not really practiced it. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:51 Highlight the passage at 1:09:51

1:10:16 They can quote, they can recite scripture, but... But actually not do it within their own experience of life. And so Ajahn Chah's approach, because in Thailand, you see, there's a lot of that. There's so much emphasis on the academic side that Ajahn Chah and the monks in the forest tradition of northeast Thailand, they emphasize practice a lot. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:16 Highlight the passage at 1:10:16

1:10:39 Very practical ways of practicing so that you're actually realizing these truths. They're not just... Abstractions are intellectual abstractions in your mind. They're realizations. You know them for the truth because you've seen it yourself. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:39 Highlight the passage at 1:10:39

1:11:05 I would say its aim is the same. Its style is different. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:05 Highlight the passage at 1:11:05

1:11:25 Right, because each one, like in Zen, the emphasis is on emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:25 Highlight the passage at 1:11:25

1:11:35 And then in Tibetan, they... Of course, they have different styles of Tibetan Buddhism. But now I notice that there's this Dzogchen, the latest kind of fashion, which is really contemplating more on emptiness than on form. It seems to be focused on that. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:35 Highlight the passage at 1:11:35

1:12:11 On space and emptiness rather than on various forms because there's so much symbolism. They use so many symbols in the Tibetan practices. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:11 Highlight the passage at 1:12:11

1:12:25 But also, like whatever, an attachment to any of these is slightly off because you just end up with becoming a kind of Theravadan Buddhist or a Dzogchen practicer. or a Zenist and it seems to me to be defeating the whole purpose is to get beyond to get to see attachment and to realize the suffering that comes from attachment and then to realize the non-suffering of non-attachment but Report an error in the passage at 1:12:25 Highlight the passage at 1:12:25

1:13:09 it's a difficult one to because whatever you say people tend to grasp it and you can you know like Report an error in the passage at 1:13:09 Highlight the passage at 1:13:09

1:13:22 They're like, you get hardcore Zen or hardcore Theravadans, and they're kind of, you know, like I remember meeting, when I first came to England, there were people in Zen sometimes would say, the Buddha never had Buddha rūpas, Buddha images, and they would say, chanting and all that, Buddha never taught chanting. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:22 Highlight the passage at 1:13:22

1:13:51 And they were always coming from this kind of purist attitude of the Zen is the instant enlightenment, you know, you don't need all that stuff. And they're kind of very opinionated about the paraphernalia of Theravāda Buddhism. And yet that's an attachment, isn't it? You're attached to what the Buddha, you know, it's a kind of... Report an error in the passage at 1:13:51 Highlight the passage at 1:13:51

1:14:19 it's a kind of rigidity of. The Buddha never taught that there's a kind of self-righteousness involved, which is a pretty ugly vibration to get from people. And yet, you know, they're coming from a kind of very idealistic interpretation and attached to it. And it's not that they're wrong, but the attachment is what's blinding them. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:19 Highlight the passage at 1:14:19

1:14:50 Because, you know, it's true, you don't need Buddha rūpas and chanting and all that. It's not, you know, you can use it or not use it, or you can make a problem about it or not. It can be helpful, it can be, or, you know, you can be blinded by it, you can be deluded by it, or you can be enlightened through it. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:50 Highlight the passage at 1:14:50

1:15:10 But it's through the realization of non-grasping rather than through the opinion you might have or the objects that you Well, Report an error in the passage at 1:15:10 Highlight the passage at 1:15:10

· · · silence, 2 minutes

1:17:08 all those things come from ignorance, from not understanding truth. We have instinctual drives, like self-preservation. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:08 Highlight the passage at 1:17:08

1:17:30 Sexual and procreation, things like this are part of our species and planetary life. They're instinctual drives. And so these things affect us. But if we don't understand them, then we tend to... And then our cultural conditioning takes various views or forms, opinions, and we have strong sense of ourselves. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:30 Highlight the passage at 1:17:30

1:17:57 We live in a very competitive system. Western society, modern kind of materialism and that is very competitive. Your schooling, your education, your conditioning is to be competitive, which means that you're going to experience a lot of jealousy because your worth is always going to be Report an error in the passage at 1:17:57 Highlight the passage at 1:17:57

1:18:30 You know, you're always comparing yourself, whether you're as good, better, or worse than somebody else. And this is conditioned through just the values of a competitive society. And then being the best is highly praised. You get rewards. And being a failure is condemned. You're looked down on. You're worthless. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:30 Highlight the passage at 1:18:30

1:18:59 And so there's always this fear of being a failure. So somebody, even if you're a winner and a success, you still fear failure more than anything. Maybe all your life you've been putting so much effort into winning because you're so frightened of being a failure. And all this is going on, you're not aware of it. You're just caught into this. Until something in you stops and says, hey, what am I doing? Report an error in the passage at 1:18:59 Highlight the passage at 1:18:59

1:19:27 Do I have to live life like this? And sometimes, you know, just the, you know, people have nervous breakdowns and experiences of that nature where they, because in some ways I see these as good things. I was talking to one woman who had a nervous breakdown. She told me it was the best thing that ever happened to her. She said because she had a nervous breakdown, she started practicing meditation. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:27 Highlight the passage at 1:19:27

1:19:55 Well, before that, she's a very ambitious, vain kind of person who is always trying to get her way and dominate and achieve. And then it all collapsed. She couldn't help. There was a breakdown. She just kind of collapsed in a heap, couldn't do anything. And she had to start looking at herself in a different way. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:55 Highlight the passage at 1:19:55

1:20:18 Well, in our society, we tend to look at nervous breakdowns as being a failure. You know, so people that have nervous breakdowns are oftentimes regarded as they're weak, as something, you know, basically wrong with them. You know, the screw is loose, so they don't quite have it all. And then the self is seen in most, you're frightened of, you know, that you're kind of permanently damaged. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:18 Highlight the passage at 1:20:18

1:20:45 You're not, you know, your worst fears are confirmed. But if you start looking at it in terms of dharma, you can see these things are not necessarily bad in themselves. Oftentimes we have to be clobbered to wake up to something. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:45 Highlight the passage at 1:20:45

1:21:06 And we see it like sickness. And loss of loved ones is a part of human experience. Yet we tend to see all that as a kind of failure or something bad that shouldn't be. And yet all those things are part of every human being is going to experience loss of the loved. It's just a part of human experience. And sickness, or just age, and death. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:06 Highlight the passage at 1:21:06

1:21:40 death, and there's a... Separation from the loved is something we all experience and if we understand this then we're not just caught in a kind of morbid sense of life being a threat and a danger and something we have to To protect ourselves from, we open to all possibilities. It gives us courage to look and learn from life, rather than kind of hide away and protect ourselves from possible loss or dangers that we can imagine, which inevitably overwhelm you anyway, no matter what you do. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:40 Highlight the passage at 1:21:40

1:22:33 You know, there's no safe place to be anymore, so you might as well be where you are. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:33 Highlight the passage at 1:22:33

1:22:42 And if you can trust in that, then you'll learn what you need to learn. You'll be able to learn the lessons that you really need to learn from and understand. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:42 Highlight the passage at 1:22:42

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:23:26 So I guess that's enough for today. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:26 Highlight the passage at 1:23:26