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- 5:23
My aim was to get rid of suffering and have experienced bliss because I really wanted to just experience... I had this idea of this samādhi state that you just spend your time in this wonderful, blissful mental state and you just get... and if you become a monk then it gets stronger and stronger and you're just more blissful and...
- 9:09
There's no way to do it. There's nothing to read, nobody to talk to, day after day, sitting in their little hut in the woods. And the only thing you'd get excited about was the food, which usually wasn't very exciting anyway. And, you know, that was the high point of the day, was when they brought the food. That was the most exciting thing that one did, was eat.
- 13:32
You know, you hear people say, oh, I have terrible problems with anger. And so they've decided, you know, they have this idea that anger is them and it's their problem. So the whole thing gets stuck on that level where it's better to, you know, it's more direct, more skillful just to see that anger is like this. And as soon as you start thinking, my anger, it becomes more than what it is. Then you've created a sense of yourself with the experience of anger, and then it will go into being complicated.
- 22:35
When you're trying to understand it all the time, explain it, then it can get just more confusing and can increase the problem. Like really, like really, you know, like somebody, somebody misunderstands and then I want them to understand. So then I try to explain it even more and then, and then, then they, they get even more upset. And then I think, can you understand?
- 42:45
So when dying, it's probably a good practice to just remind you to contemplate life and see that this is the natural process. This is the body dying. And that which is aware of the dying isn't dying. The awareness doesn't die, but the body, the conditions of the body are packing up. But then if you're on a personal level, you think, I'm dying. And then that will be a sense of grief or a lot more maybe fear.
Transcript
· · · silence, 1 minute
0:49 Feel free to ask any questions and we have a microphone, a portable microphone if you need one. You Report an error in the passage at 0:49
1:01 know, if you're in the back or you want to amplify your voice. Yes. In. I did. Report an error in the passage at 1:01
1:19 Question. Did I find Buddhists at the North Pole? Report an error in the passage at 1:19
1:27 And it was very strange because I didn't go quite to the North Pole but I went to this island near Not far from there, Svalbard or Spitsbergen, it's known as, belongs to Norway. And it's not far from the North Pole. And when we arrived, there's a community of Thai Buddhists living there. And they were as surprised to see me as I was to see them. Report an error in the passage at 1:27
1:55 there. Report an error in the passage at 1:55
2:10 I had two other monks with me, Ajahn Amaro and Ajahn Yanaratso. And we went into this hotel, the Radisson Hotel, in this town called Longya Bin. And then I noticed this Asian woman, one of the kind of chambermaids, was looking at me. And I thought, I said, And there's a... There are about 40 Thais living there in this town. And the Thai people can go there to work without a work permit. Report an error in the passage at 2:10
2:56 Because I think in the 1920s or some time, it was disputed, where did Spitsbergen, whose was it? And Russia was claiming it. Norway and Sweden and Britain and Germany, everybody was trying to get it. And so an international court awarded it to Norway. And I think the Thai had something to do with signing that agreement. So that they, because of that, they can go there without a work permit. Report an error in the passage at 2:56
3:33 And they get the Norwegian wages, which are quite good. And they don't have to pay Norwegian taxes. So you think. You'd think they'd be utterly miserable living up there, but they look pretty happy, actually. And I think several had been married, were married to Norwegian men, and the rest were obviously relatives or people they knew that had heard about it and come out to work. Report an error in the passage at 3:33
4:02 They do like, in the hotel, they cleaners or cooks, things like that. But they were, they gave us a meal. meal one day the traditional Thai way. So that's quite nice to up to. Report an error in the passage at 4:02
4:25 a very pleasant surprise. Report an error in the passage at 4:25
· · · silence, 1 minute
5:07 didn't even notice. Report an error in the passage at 5:07
5:23 My aim was to get rid of suffering and have experienced bliss because I really wanted to just experience... I had this idea of this samādhi state that you just spend your time in this wonderful, blissful mental state and you just get... and if you become a monk then it gets stronger and stronger and you're just more blissful and... Report an error in the passage at 5:23
5:51 and that it just increases and you give your life to the saṅgha you know and it just makes it even better and better so then becoming a monk it got worse and worse it Report an error in the passage at 5:51
6:12 wasn't what I was expecting but so I mean you just felt like I found the first year I was what they call a samanera which is when you're not a fully ordained monk yet Report an error in the passage at 6:12
6:30 But I was, because I was a foreigner and didn't understand all the Vinaya and the discipline of a monk, the preceptor thought it better to start out as a Samanera. So I spent a year as a Samanera in meditation. So I was living in this little hut in Nangkai, mostly by myself, you know. I had very little contact with anybody. And I found that my karma ripened very quickly in that situation. Report an error in the passage at 6:30
7:03 Because when you're left by yourself like that, and then nobody around could speak English, I couldn't speak Thai, so I was just, you know, really felt, I brought up the incredible loneliness and then anger. Report an error in the passage at 7:03
7:24 So I spent almost three months, the first three months, I just felt angry almost all the time. And I always consider myself a, you know, a good-natured guy, really. And it was the image I had of myself. And then I thought that becoming a monk would increase and become even better, better nature. And then the first three months I was angry almost all the time. Not due to anybody. There's nobody, I couldn't blame it on anybody around me or anything, but just being left to myself without any distraction. Report an error in the passage at 7:24
8:03 You know, there was nothing to do. Report an error in the passage at 8:03
8:22 I think it would have, would have moved so quickly if I, you know, but that particular situation certainly. It brought the repressed anger up for me in a way that I was totally surprised. But then, you know, as you fortunately had enough trust and interest in what I was doing to stay with it, and so after three months I think it dropped. Report an error in the passage at 8:22
8:55 You know, suddenly it just wasn't a problem anymore. But if I started resisting it, you know, then there was a tremendous desire to distract myself, to get away from these unpleasant emotions. There's no way to do it. There's nothing to read, nobody to talk to, day after day, sitting in their little hut in the woods. Report an error in the passage at 8:55
9:21 And the only thing you'd get excited about was the food, which usually wasn't very exciting anyway. Report an error in the passage at 9:21
9:33 And, you know, that was the high point of the day, was when they brought the food. That was the most exciting thing that one did, was eat. Report an error in the passage at 9:33
9:48 But also, I think the feel you have to kind of speed things up, I think, to see that as just another view. That's where I encourage you to just trust more, just the flow of your life. Report an error in the passage at 9:48
10:09 You know, and then because there's a compulsiveness that we have that wants to speed it up, wants to get something more quickly than what we think we're doing now. And so we, you know, we try to speed up the process. But I would just recommend just... Learning to get to really know the trust and the awareness and with the flow of your life as it is, that's enough. Report an error in the passage at 10:09
10:46 And then a lot of things, kind of neutral things, those are the most deluding. The more extreme emotions are obvious, like anger or greed and jealousy and fear, they're quite obvious. The things that really delude us are kind of just neutral state, restlessness, and kind of general feelings of gloom and boredom, things like that. Report an error in the passage at 10:46
11:19 They're oftentimes the most difficult because we tend to just want to suppress them. Anger and lust, things like that, can be more interesting and more exciting. Report an error in the passage at 11:19
11:36 Jealousy. Fear. then we get into the kind of niggling worried state, you know, nothing much, just general restless was feeling bored. Yes? Report an error in the passage at 11:36
11:57 kind of thing. It's easy to just fall in, at least for me, to not bring it into awareness but just kind of get caught in it. Report an error in the passage at 11:57
12:35 Just trust your awareness of it. Because even naming it gets in the way. Because then you're putting something onto it. And then it tends, then you're making, you know, even though it might be anger now, it's easy to name. But then a lot of what you're experiencing, you have no name for it. And then you're trying to think of a name and you get caught with this desire to name it. Report an error in the passage at 12:35
13:04 So this is where trusting, because what you're doing is you're learning to rest in a pure state of intelligence so you can trust it. And you don't need to name it because you just know it's this way. And then we want to name it because that greedy part, that desire part of us thinks by naming it we understand it. Report an error in the passage at 13:04
13:27 But we know all these things but we still don't understand them. You know, you hear people say, oh, I have terrible problems with anger. And so they've decided, you know, they have this idea that anger is them and it's their problem. So the whole thing gets stuck on that level where it's better to, you know, it's more direct, more skillful just to see that anger is like this. Report an error in the passage at 13:27
14:02 And as soon as you start thinking, my anger, it becomes more than what it is. Then you've created a sense of yourself with the experience of anger, and then it will go into being complicated. Report an error in the passage at 14:02
14:17 You see what I mean? Then if you trust in your awareness of it, then that will just let it be what it is, and it will resolve itself. And then subtleties. That you can't possibly name will be more apparent. You'll have more confidence in dealing with just subtle movements of energy and emotion, feelings of just slight ill at ease or feeling a bit threatened by something, but maybe it's a subtle experience. Report an error in the passage at 14:17
14:54 And then when you try to describe it, then we do the best we can, but... It isn't necessary as long as you know it's the way it is. Report an error in the passage at 14:54
15:08 And that's, you know, being someone who's spent a lot of time learning, you know, being educated, I've had a lot of problems with always trying to figure it out and only feeling that I really understand when I've analysed it. Report an error in the passage at 15:08
15:28 But then the reality, the thing is, it seems to, even though I can... myself by my personalities like this, it doesn't really solve the problem, you know. It just makes me more that it's mine. Report an error in the passage at 15:28
15:52 might make me a more interesting personality. if somebody didn't have any emotional problems, they'd be pretty boring, wouldn't they? Report an error in the passage at 15:52
16:15 It's not to disown them, but to just recognize them. Because disowning implies a kind of rejection. And that doesn't work, because that will make them worse. It's just like bear a recognition. That's why we say the way it is, it's like this. Report an error in the passage at 16:15
16:36 And so if you're going to use words, it's like the mood you're in right now is just like this. So you don't have to figure out... You know, to try to describe it and pin it down. Because a lot of what we feel is neither one way or the other. It can be amorphous. You can feel very confused, emotionally confused. And then you're trying to get rid of the confusion. Report an error in the passage at 16:36
17:07 And you get more confused the more you try to get rid of it. But when the mind is confused, just accepting confusion. Let's see what happens when confusion is like this. You don't have to know even why. If you try to figure out why you're confused, then it goes back into thinking about yourself again. Report an error in the passage at 17:07
17:31 Just trust in the feeling of confusion is like this. And let it be, and kind of hold it. So you're just allowing it to be there. You'll find it dissipates, it goes away in a way that you would never... Your personality would never expect it to. Yes? Report an error in the passage at 17:31
· · · silence, 1 minute
18:29 The person that was dying knew that they were. Report an error in the passage at 18:29
18:38 Uh-huh. Report an error in the passage at 18:38
18:57 Well, you know, with the intuitive senses. I'm sure, you know, like people that... People do know they're dying. And if they're open to that, you know, some people don't want to know that. Report an error in the passage at 18:57
19:18 Some people refuse to even admit. I can't speak for that particular case, but it would be. This intelligence transcends your personal conditioning. You know what's happening. You can feel it in your body. Report an error in the passage at 19:18
19:44 But then how to express it, they might not be able to even talk about it. Or if they do talk about it, it might not sound really what they're feeling because the expressions they have, they might not know how to express what they're really feeling intuitively. Report an error in the passage at 19:44
20:07 That's why in intuitions, you know, it's difficult to relate them to somebody else because it often comes out something that you didn't really mean. mean... Report an error in the passage at 20:07
20:22 Because, you know, language is such a habit and the way we think can oftentimes make it sound something, you know, somebody hears me talking, they might, you know, totally misunderstand what I'm saying. Report an error in the passage at 20:22
· · · silence, 1 minute
21:09 Well, you just keep trying, just keep doing it, you know, so it isn't always that you can do it, but the more you trust your intuition, Report an error in the passage at 21:09
21:33 Then see what happens. Report an error in the passage at 21:33
21:52 No, just be more aware of that, of even feeling frustrated or whatever. Don't try to figure it out, but just go back to the silent stillness more, trust that. Report an error in the passage at 21:52
22:09 Because then, trying to figure it out, you're just going back into the whole thing, the whole... thinking process again, which creates that. So it's learning to just trust in the awareness more and let it be confusing or frustrating or whatever way you're feeling it. Report an error in the passage at 22:09
22:35 When you're trying to understand it all the time, explain it, then it can get just more confusing and can increase the problem. Report an error in the passage at 22:35
22:51 Like really, like really, you know, like somebody, somebody misunderstands and then I want them to understand. So then I try to explain it even more and then, and then, then they, they get even more upset. And then I think, can you understand? Report an error in the passage at 22:51
23:17 Plain English? By that time, almost. Report an error in the passage at 23:17
23:27 Because we think we can explain everything out, but sometimes it's not that. I remember years ago, a monk that I was always having difficulties with, and so I kept trying to explain to him, and he just seemed to get more hostile. And the more I explained, the more hostile he became. Report an error in the passage at 23:27
23:59 And I thought I was just, you know, I thought I was being very intelligent and very compassionate. But because I wanted him to understand so much, he took me as being very aggressive. Report an error in the passage at 23:59
24:14 So he just felt this incredible aggression when I came around. And I saw him and, you know, I just kind of, I want you to understand. Report an error in the passage at 24:14
24:26 And pretty soon, you know, as soon as he saw me, he kind of... He had fear of being attacked by me. Report an error in the passage at 24:26
24:38 And so then I began to see that the problem, I wanted him to understand on my terms. I was making a demand on him that I thought was justified and right, but he could only feel it as an aggression, aggressive act. Just the intensity of my desire to make him understand. Report an error in the passage at 24:38
25:06 He felt it only as an aggression. And then he couldn't function. He couldn't listen or hear because of the fear involved from my aggressiveness. Report an error in the passage at 25:06
25:20 So I stopped. I don't think he still understands. Report an error in the passage at 25:20
25:33 But I'm not worried about it anymore. Report an error in the passage at 25:33
25:44 We don't know sometimes how, you know, like when we were doing these NVC workshops last year, you know, non-violent communication. Report an error in the passage at 25:44
25:57 It's interesting when you're living in a community, you know, and you're all speaking English and, you know, and it's such a habitual, you know, for me English is my habit. It's my native tongue. So I think I know what I'm saying all the time because English for me is my language. Report an error in the passage at 25:57
26:23 And yet, sometimes, even though you think you're communicating in English and using words, compassionate words and wise words and whatnot, you can come across as being aggressive or insensitive or all kinds of things. Feel, you know, not through the words. The words might be all about compassion and love, but they're feeling something else. Report an error in the passage at 26:23
26:55 Just by the way, maybe by speech habits. Just the way that, like Americans in the States, you know, I think the way we speak English tends to be quite aggressive. And the way we think can be quite aggressive and accusative. Report an error in the passage at 26:55
27:15 So, you know, just watching myself when somebody does something, who's at fault? You're wanting to blame somebody or even the way I blame myself, very kind of aggressive ways of even thinking. So I think like this non-violent communication kind of helped to see how communicating with other members in this community, how sometimes just the way one could say something could It could be, you know, it would be a kind of aggressive statement. So it's, and maybe it's almost like you're blaming somebody. Report an error in the passage at 27:15
27:55 You're putting the blame on them, that's how they feel it. So it's learning too, like with right speech, one of the moral qualities we try to develop is right speech, or learning how to speak in a way that we're More responsible for what we're saying and its effect on others. Report an error in the passage at 27:55
28:21 So if I have patterns of speech that just sound, you know, that are not because of the aggressive way that I might talk, then people can't really appreciate what I'm saying because of that aggressive style. So then you learn a way of speaking that's more That doesn't convey aggression. And it's not that I'm intending aggression. It's not that I have an intention. But maybe the speech pattern sounds aggressive. Report an error in the passage at 28:21
28:57 I mean, this is how sensitive we are. I never wanted to be this sensitive. You grow up in my generation, we're trying to make ourselves totally insensitive. Report an error in the passage at 28:57
29:11 The role models for men of my generation, Total insensitivity. You Report an error in the passage at 29:11
29:23 know, the tough guy that doesn't cry, you know, and you're just totally insensitive. And so being sensitive to that way of thinking can seem like weakness, softness, weakness. Report an error in the passage at 29:23
29:47 So there's a whole kind of cultural pattern there that isn't consciously held. You know, but it's a habit, unconscious habit. Yes? Report an error in the passage at 29:47
30:24 Well, you see that, he was, you know, like, that would be with monks that he had, knew that that would be good for. Like in Thailand, it's different because the Thai monks generally that I lived with had so much faith and respect for Ajahn Chah. Report an error in the passage at 30:24
30:49 You know, so he could really scold, you know, and I've heard him scold monks and nuns and, you know, just be quite harsh with them. Report an error in the passage at 30:49
31:04 But he never did that to me. And I think, you know, I wouldn't have been able to take it. But the Thai monks, there's a faith, you know, and... That they have a faith from their culture that we don't have. And they had tremendous faith and respect for him. So he could relate to them in ways that would be useful. Report an error in the passage at 31:04
31:39 And so with me, I guess he intuitively knew that that wouldn't be helpful to me. Actually he did. After quite a few years with him, he started insulting me. Report an error in the passage at 31:39
31:58 But by that time I could take it. I knew how to deal with that. He'd insult me in front of a group of people and then he'd look at me and see what I'd do with that. And I was quite honored by it. know what I mean? Report an error in the passage at 31:58
32:25 It's an honor to be insulted by Ajahn Chah. Report an error in the passage at 32:25
32:43 Well, I don't, I'll insult them when I feel it's the right time. Report an error in the passage at 32:43
33:00 I think with so many of the Western Saṅgha, they need, because they tend to insult themselves too much. You know, people are so hard on themselves that Report an error in the passage at 33:00
33:20 That it doesn't help very much. They need to be, they need a lot of encouragement. And they need encouragement to trust, to develop faith, to develop confidence. Because their super-egos are constructed to be so self-critical. And so they endlessly doubt themselves. themselves and and and disparage Self-disparagement is quite strong. You know, you don't find many monks or nuns kind of overestimating themselves, thinking they're the greatest. Report an error in the passage at 33:20
34:03 The problem more on the level of always disparaging and seeing themselves through negative perceptions. So that's where, you know, like I think the brilliance of Luang Por Chah was that he He created in me a sense of trust that I never felt with another human being before. Report an error in the passage at 34:03
34:31 So then once that was established, then he could have done anything with me. But at first, if he started insulting me when I first came, I would have left. Report an error in the passage at 34:31
34:47 And I couldn't take it. I would be just hurt and angry. So in the first few years he just gave me a lot of encouragement. Report an error in the passage at 34:47
35:08 It's like in Thailand, it's nice to teach there because people have so much faith already that they don't question a lot of it. Report an error in the passage at 35:08
35:26 So you talk about taking refuge in Buddha Dhammasang and they're inspired by that. And the Westerners... What does that mean? That sounds like rites and rituals. What's Buddha? So you're dealing with a skeptical mind. Also, you know, something that doesn't, those words may not for years create some sense of trust and faith. Report an error in the passage at 35:26
35:57 You know, where with people born in Buddhist families, those are kind of basic to their whole kind of mindset. rituals, you know, Bhutan, Srinankacchami, you know. Report an error in the passage at 35:57
36:06 To their cultural conditioning. So, and for me now, those words are inspiring. Like namo tassa bhagavato, what I chanted in the beginning. You know, when I first became a monk, this is what you had to chant. So I did it. Didn't understand it. I could translate it into English and still didn't, you know, it didn't arouse any great inspiration. Report an error in the passage at 36:06
36:36 It's just high-minded words and... And it was part of the tradition. I didn't mind doing it, but it didn't inspire. It wasn't something that I loved to do. I just did it because that was what you're supposed to do. But now it's, you know, to be able to chant Namotasabhagavato is the expression of this love of the dharma. Report an error in the passage at 36:36
37:00 It's an action into the world of a blessing, you know. So it's coming from a much deeper, more beautiful place than just... A perfunctory chanting of syllables like it was in the beginning. But you can't expect people to be able to do that till they have some experience and trust. Because for us it's an exotic religion. Report an error in the passage at 37:00
37:33 We're taking on terms that we're learning through a different language. And sometimes our English translations aren't even inspiring. You know, a lot of English translations are pretty boring. You know, they don't lift you up very much. And just like blessings and things like this are common enough to think of blessing. Report an error in the passage at 37:33
38:03 And yet, what is a blessing? And so then trying to figure it out intellectually and then it becomes dry and dull. But suddenly you wake up like blessing is, you know, suddenly you realize how blessed one is and what blessing really is. And this feeling of being blessed and be able to bless and things like this comes from an intuitive awareness rather than from understanding the meaning of the word. Report an error in the passage at 38:03
38:40 So then the, you know, like the English word blessing, you think, well, I know what that means. But I may not understand what blessing really is as a reality. Or I can think it doesn't, you know, it's just superstition, it's all that faith stuff, you know, blessings from the Buddha. There's no God to give blessings. Go on to your old, you know, Ebenezer Scrooge role of Bah Humbug. Report an error in the passage at 38:40
39:09 But the words themselves, you know, like when you're chanting Pāli, all those are kind of Beautiful. I mean, phrases, and it's an ancient language, and teaching of the Buddha, and blessings to all sentient beings. It's really taking thought to a superlative position. So, you know, you're thinking at the top level. Report an error in the passage at 39:09
39:37 It's all, you know, dealing with beautiful thoughts. And pointers at reality, teachings that are pointing at truth. And yet it can be just meaningless theories of nonsense syllables. Report an error in the passage at 39:37
39:54 So it's as we, like in the Buddhist tradition, as you awaken more, then you begin to learn how to use the conventions more skillfully. Report an error in the passage at 39:54
· · · silence, 1 minute
40:47 Well, I think speaking more, it's like a reflecting ability, not just... Because I mean, you can just think, oh, you know, there's nothing in life worth having. It's a kind of dismissal. But if you kind of look, you know, like how I, you know, what I was saying about my personality, could I find anything on my personality I would want to last for eternity? Report an error in the passage at 40:47
41:10 And it wasn't that I was just dismissing my personality, but I couldn't actually, couldn't find anything. You know, and it was a relief because... I realized that if it wasn't my personality that I cared about or that I wanted to preserve, you know, I could see it. It was just habits and attitudes that I had acquired. Report an error in the passage at 41:10
41:34 But there was something much more alive than my personality. So if I just operate from... You know, personality habits, that's why you get kind of dull after a while. You can't create the same spark. You might be a kind of scintillating personality for a while and then it all collapses. Because it only works for so long you can't sustain it. Or enthusiasm or kind of happiness and gaiety and so forth. Report an error in the passage at 41:34
42:13 But if you... And so then people that are very dependent on being interesting people, it's hard to sustain that illusion. And the biggest fear is being a boring, uninteresting personality. And so it's not a very good refuge, terrible refuge. So when dying, it's probably a good practice to just remind you to contemplate life and see that this is the natural process. Report an error in the passage at 42:13
43:00 This is the body dying. And that which is aware of the dying isn't dying. The awareness doesn't die, but the body, the conditions of the body are packing up. But then if you're on a personal level, you think, I'm dying. And then that will be a sense of grief or a lot more maybe fear. Report an error in the passage at 43:00
43:27 But if you trust in the awareness, then I can only, after I die, then I'll tell you for sure. I'm just theorizing, right? Report an error in the passage at 43:27
43:41 But this is where my faith is. This awareness is deathless. So that, you know, when the body's dying, just like when the body's in pain or it's sick or feverish, the awareness of that isn't sick or feverish. Report an error in the passage at 43:41
44:01 If there's pain in my body, physical pain, the awareness isn't painful. Maybe the sensation in the body is. But if you begin to notice, awareness isn't painful, but the object in the awareness is painful. So your refuge is in the awareness. But if you're not, then when you feel pain, then you react, I don't like it, I want to get rid of it, I can't stand it, it's unbearable. Report an error in the passage at 44:01
44:37 Then you're creating misery onto the pain. the physical pain. then the more you try to get rid of pain, what happens? It becomes worse. know, just willfully trying to conquer pain more pain. So, Report an error in the passage at 44:37
45:01 like with awareness, then it's learning to receive the pain of the body and then to allow it to be painful. And then that stops you from creating this aversion to the pain, so you're not creating misery onto the pain. Then see what happens. And so, like, I can't speak, I've never had chronic pain, but people I know who have to cope with chronic pain, you know, some of them are quite radiant, quite peaceful people. Report an error in the passage at 45:01
45:42 And so you ask them, do you still feel the pain? They say, oh yeah, it's still just as horrible as ever. But they don't create aversion onto it. Report an error in the passage at 45:42
45:56 So then they can bear, they can endure the pain itself. What is unbearable is the thought, I can't stand this. Report an error in the passage at 45:56
46:09 I've had enough, I can't bear it anymore. And then you keep creating a misery onto it. And that's what... this. Report an error in the passage at 46:09
46:17 It seems unbearable. Report an error in the passage at 46:17
46:25 Yes? Report an error in the passage at 46:25
· · · silence, 1 minute
47:53 Well, the kind of interesting, the kind of amazing thing to me of Buddha's teaching is that it's a kind of timeless teaching. Because actually there's no kind of... I mean, even though we pay respect to the Buddha, the historical Buddha, and we use the teachings, you know, 2,500 years ago and that, it's not like... Report an error in the passage at 47:53
48:20 Those teachings are pointing always to the present. So it's a universal statement rather than a kind of cultural celebration. So that's why it fits in almost any place because it isn't bound by a culture. So it's not like you have to act... Like they did in India in 2500 or even assuming that somehow that was the golden age or whatever. Report an error in the passage at 48:20
48:53 And then it doesn't, you know, in terms of the future, there's all these theories about Maitreya Buddha and the teaching and the tradition is that the present Buddha is the Buddha of compassion and he's, in the last 5,000 years, Report an error in the passage at 48:53
49:15 Teaching of the Suffering and the End of Suffering. Report an error in the passage at 49:15
49:24 It's past the halfway mark. So some people dispute. They don't have to believe that either. But the thing is, and then the Maitreya Buddha is, according to theory, the Buddha of loving kindness. So that the, and it's about, you know, Report an error in the passage at 49:24
49:46 It's a teaching about love and friendship, fellowship and so forth. These very inspiring ideals will manifest more in the human realm. But to me the existing teaching of the Four Noble Truths seems to address very much my personal problems. Report an error in the passage at 49:46
50:15 In my kind of situation in life. And I'm inspired, you know, like the Maitreya Buddha I find inspiring because it's so beautiful, the ideal of it. But then I found the actual suffering is the main problem that most of us have. We suffer even when you've got... Everything going for you. You can't blame it on, like here in England, it's not because I feel oppressed by the government or mistreated or, you know, I can't blame my suffering on the Americans or on the British, but still even the best. Report an error in the passage at 50:15
51:08 I can suffer even when I've got everything and that's because of the way I think and so just by recognizing that then I learn how to change my way of thinking and I develop awareness as my refuge rather than just trying to make myself into a normal person or create a perfect society according to some ideal and we can see like so much of like communism just Report an error in the passage at 51:08
51:38 The attempts to, out of this ideal, trying to create a society based on ideals of socialism and communism, which are really beautiful as ideals, as fairness and equality and all the best you can think of. And yet, when you try to make it happen, try to force everybody into that, it becomes a tyranny. Report an error in the passage at 51:38
52:07 You know, so you're forcing your ideals on people and you're not, you know, so that then, like I was saying before, they just feel they're being, you know, pressured and tyrannized. You know, you will be equal, you know, so you take away the wealth of the rich and force all the farmers into communal farms and There may be all good ideas, you know, but in terms of experience, what is it? It ends up as tyranny, because the means are tyrannical. Report an error in the passage at 52:07
52:44 So, the means is very important. Like with meditation, you know, just to try to get rid of all your bad thoughts and make yourself into a beautiful, pure-hearted being. being Report an error in the passage at 52:44
53:01 Through a tyrannical attitude towards yourself, you'll just, you know, you'll fail, you'll become miserable. So it's learning, you know, to be like having more acceptance, more patience with your own stubbornness or insecurity or fears and things rather than just trying to, you know, kill them off. Report an error in the passage at 53:01
53:32 And with each other in society, learning to be more patient, more accepting, rather than trying to brainwash everybody into believing the same way. Report an error in the passage at 53:32
53:45 Buddhism does see the human condition, not in a pessimistic way. So it recognizes that our true nature is immortal, and we love the good. It's not that we're basically flawed creatures due to a sinful act of ancestors, but it's that we forget our true nature. So then the teaching is to wake up to that again, to remember that, to recognize it. So it's interesting just to see in... Report an error in the passage at 53:45
54:32 I became interested in Buddhism in the mid-50s when there was this kind of interest on the west coast of the United States in Zen from Japan. So it had become quite trendy and fashionable in San Francisco and places like that. But it was something in me awakened when I began to... Read books on Zen. It reached something that had never been awakened before just through reading that. Report an error in the passage at 54:32
55:14 But then in those days it was difficult to find anybody who was interested. I remember being in University of California in the early 60s, an area where it was very avant-garde. that Report an error in the passage at 55:14
55:30 All the things begin there, you know, new thoughts, new ideas, new fashions, new trends. I tried to find a Zen teacher in 1962. Report an error in the passage at 55:30
55:42 I couldn't find any. And now they're all over the place. You go to Berkeley and there's a book, you know, that thick on ashrams, yoga centers, meditation groups. Report an error in the passage at 55:42
55:57 1960, you know, I couldn't find one. And if you asked anybody about it, they thought you were crazy. So I'd like to learn how to meditate there. What's that? And these are, you know, graduate students. But now, like yoga now is a totally acceptable thing to do. Back in 1960, that was really strange. You know, if you did yoga, people really, you know, thought you were... Report an error in the passage at 55:57
56:33 Weird. Why would you want to do that? So there, you know, I just noticed, like here in England, I've been living here for 26 years, so I can see the amount of interest and openness among people here in England. Report an error in the passage at 56:33
56:55 In meditation, there's a, in Europe, and everywhere, actually, in the States, there's a whole... There's a kind of interest now in these things, in what consciousness really is and in the nature of the mind that's much more profound than it ever was, say, 40 years ago. Report an error in the passage at 56:55
57:22 And there's more people that have explored it, you know, more people that have actually, you know, that's no longer so theoretical or idealistic, but more practical. Report an error in the passage at 57:22
57:36 Because there's more people who have actually done it, you know, and they know what they're talking about. It's no longer just taking some teaching from Asia and then talking about it. Practicing it so it works, it actually has its desired effect. Does that answer your question? Report an error in the passage at 57:36
57:57 So the future would be, you know, you realize the potential of every human being. For awareness, for awakeness, for enlightenment. You see, we're not that different from each other. It's not like only special. You see the potential for them all. And so the idea of making the teachings more available, more where people can, because often times people just don't have a chance to even hear it, you know. Report an error in the passage at 57:57
58:38 They're just living in places where the possibility of hearing the teacher having a chance to practice is just not there. So, like in 1960, I couldn't find any teacher in California, so I went to Asia. Because there were teachers, but now there are teachers in California. Report an error in the passage at 58:38
59:04 So my own attitude is seeing the potential. That gives you a respect for human beings. You see the potential in them all. So you want to see human beings with that potential rather than with these prejudices or personal likes or dislikes according to personality habits. So you hear about street children being slaughtered in Rio de Janeiro. Report an error in the passage at 59:04
59:41 And, you know, the kind of way human beings are so badly treated on this planet. And if they're just, you know, you can just slaughter them if they get in the way or torture and mutilate them. And it's sad because you recognize even in the, you know, that potential within a homeless street child or a thief or whatever. Report an error in the passage at 59:41
1:00:08 And if, you know, people could, if we reach each other on that level, There's a better chance of, there's a chance of connecting with somebody. You know, when you're coming from there, it's easier to connect because you're not just reacting to each other or each other's personality or prejudiced views you might have about somebody. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:08
· · · silence, 1 minute
1:01:05 Yeah, it's like the shoe fits, like the glass slipper. It's my Prince Charming. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:05
1:01:20 And it's an intuition, you know, but it baffles me too because, you know, brought up in a totally different milieu than a kind of Christian family and Report an error in the passage at 1:01:20
1:01:39 yet I never could, you know, the way I was taught Christianity, I never felt at ease with it or, you know, I... I couldn't, that faith was never aroused in it, where with Buddhism it rose immediately. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:39
1:02:00 And that, you know, so what was that I don't know, but it does, you know, to me this whole approach is something like, it's something so easy for me to do, so natural to me. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:00
1:02:16 But it certainly can't trace it to cultural conditioning. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:16
1:02:30 Yes? Report an error in the passage at 1:02:30
1:02:46 I'm glad I'm not an Anglican. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:46
1:02:58 I feel quite, you know, it seems sad to see it. It's so tangled up. But that's where, you know, but it's a religion that's very, it's based on faith so strongly and on belief. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:58
1:03:27 And so that... You know, it's hard to work from that level. You've just got to make people, you've got to force people into believing and you can't question. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:27
1:03:42 Where the thing that attracted me to Buddhism was that it gave you the right to question and doubt and investigate. That's what was so appealing about it. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:42
1:03:56 Where I couldn't be a Christian because I couldn't believe in the basic creed. You know, I couldn't say that creed and really believe it. So, you know, and I tried, you know, I tried to make myself do it. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:56
1:04:16 Because I was, I really was very, I loved it, my Christian experience. You know, I had a good experience. It wasn't an unpleasant, I don't have unpleasant memories of it. I couldn't, when I got to the questioning stage, they weren't, you know, they weren't providing me with a teaching that I could believe in. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:16
1:04:45 So it was always like, it was very, it worked as a child for me. Child, it was, it worked quite well, but as I grew up and developed a questioning mind, it didn't work anymore. Because either you, you know, you were, Report an error in the passage at 1:04:45
1:05:03 It seemed like black or white, you had to believe or you weren't a Christian. So that's how I was, that's what I was told. There didn't seem to be any way of coping with that. So I gave up. And then with Buddhism, they didn't make that demand. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:03
1:05:23 And intuitively, here's something that, you know, I can kind of investigate, find out, you know, figure it out. Find out myself. That really excited me. That's what I wanted to do. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:23
1:05:43 How I picked up Christianity from my background was it was an imposing belief on your intellect that you couldn't question. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:43
1:05:59 As a child I could do that. But as I grew up I couldn't do that anymore. And there was no... Now there are meditation groups in that, in the Anglican Church and Catholic Churches. They've developed a more meditative approach. They're offering alternatives, more advanced ways of looking. Like I think the present Archbishop of Canterbury, he seems much more kind of adaptable, more open, more broad in his perspective and in his vision. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:59
1:06:35 But then he's also... Facing, you know, bishops and others who've got very rigid view. The Bible says this, this is how it's interpreted, and in any other way is wrong. It's not God's teaching, and they rant on, you know, in this very self-righteous way, unquestioningly, refusing to question it. Rowan Williams questions that he's betraying the Anglican Communion. They start calling him names. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:35
1:07:07 James. Difficult musician. I've never had to bear that in the Tiruvannamalai. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:07
1:07:21 I'm glad I became Buddhist. It would Report an error in the passage at 1:07:21
1:07:34 be hard, very difficult. Now Report an error in the passage at 1:07:34
1:07:41 my sister, Report an error in the passage at 1:07:41
1:07:46 All my family, after I became a Buddhist monk, I think it was such a shock, they all became Roman Catholics. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:46
1:07:57 So she's a very devout Catholic. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:57
1:08:04 But she also respects what I'm doing. She has a lot of faith in that. She practices. It works for her. Her Catholicism works. So I can only... I'm glad. I don't... I'm not saying Catholicism doesn't work. Somebody that makes it work is quite impressive. But I couldn't do it the way she did. It's a different way of looking at life. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:04
· · · silence, 1 minute
1:09:19 prepared to inquire one way or another, and not the people who have to have a set, Report an error in the passage at 1:09:19
1:09:31 of guidelines Report an error in the passage at 1:09:31
1:09:35 I mean, even in the case of some perhaps Islamic ones, a need for a tyrannically imposed set of rules which one must live by or else. And that split seems to go across a whole lot of religions. Has Buddhism been completely free from that fundamentalist rigidity in all its manifestations? Report an error in the passage at 1:09:35
1:10:07 It's not a, it isn't a religion that arouses fanaticism. Even though, as you get into, like there are different forms like Nichiren Buddhism in Japan and that, that get, that become fanatical, but it's a different take. It's a more belief system. It's not an inquiry into things. It's a, this is right and you believe this and if you don't, you're wrong and This is the dualistic, using the dualism of the thinking mind, right and wrong, good and bad, heaven and hell, good and evil. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:07
1:10:48 Evil is Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden. Good is George Bush, Tony Blair. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:48
1:11:03 It depends on your orientation. Temptation. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:03
1:11:11 And so that's debatable, isn't it? Because which side are you looking from? And both believe they're right. They justify their righteousness. And that you can do intellectually. But then, like with Judaism and Christianity and Islam, Report an error in the passage at 1:11:11
1:11:40 This monotheistic approach tends to be very exclusive. You believe in our God and all the others are wrong. So, you know, it's always to convert, to try to impose, to make people become, follow your beliefs. So this is a limitation of monotheism. It's a very divisive ideal. That one is holding. And then in religions like Hinduism or Buddhism, Taoism, things like that, from Asia, they are monotheistic. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:40
1:12:28 And so you have much, they begin to be monistic or pantheistic or whatever. So you have much more Scope, it's an inclusive form. So India, Hinduism is called the great sponge. It just absorbs everything. Everything belongs in it. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:28
1:12:57 And they form exclusive groups within it, but the basic tenet of it is all inclusive. everything, know. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:57
1:13:07 Where monotheistic religion is based on righteousness, on being right, which creates wrong. This is just my reflection on it. Buddhism, because of its approach, it's not dealing from a metaphysical teaching. It's not imposing a doctrine, a metaphysical doctrine onto life. It starts from the existential reality of suffering, which is Common experience. So like the Four Noble Truths is the essential teaching because it's awakening to suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:07
1:13:49 It's not believing in suffering or it's not making you believe in a metaphysical doctrine first but in encouraging this awakening to yourself to how you create greed, hatred and delusion. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:49
1:14:10 It's not condemning you for doing it, but it's just encouraging you to notice so that then you see how to let go of the causes of suffering. And so that's on a human level, because suffering is a human problem. It's not Buddhist or Hindu or Christian or Asian or European. It's a human problem we all have. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:10
1:14:33 You know, so it's dealing on a level that's a common ground for all of us. And then it doesn't impose belief, but it offers a path of realization, so the metaphysical reality is realized rather than defined. So it remains nameless, you know, like in... Report an error in the passage at 1:14:33
1:14:59 Enigmatic words like Nibbāna, but it's never, you know, you're not creating or defining it or debating it. Where in the nature of God, you know, male, female, Trinitarian, Unitarian, Muslim, or Jewish, or, you know, it's, then you get into, you know, ways that you particularly want to think. So like fundamentalists, they've decided that this is right, and then they can justify that logically, that their view is right, and so they're filled with this righteousness. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:59
1:15:44 On Radio 4 I've heard some people, these evangelicals speaking, and they're so absolutely convinced they're right that... Report an error in the passage at 1:15:44
1:15:58 You know, there's not a... And that the Bible is the word of God and that the Anglican Church is following the word of God and that Ron Williams or letting a, what do you call it, gay priest become a bishop and things like this, this is wrong. I mean, they're firmly convinced and they're very righteous about it. So this is... Report an error in the passage at 1:15:58
1:16:28 This comes from the way they think and from the premise they're grasping. Like if you think the Bible is the word of God, then they're right according to the way they're thinking. And so then if you start, maybe it's not the word of God, uh-oh, then you're a destroyer of an Anglican church. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:28
1:17:00 You know, that's what they're saying. You're the evil forces that are destroying the Anglican Church. And then they can feel the only way is to excommunicate you, get rid of you, or do something with you that pushes you out, or separate themselves. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:00
1:17:21 But this is all through this attachment to a position, a righteous position. Now, one feels... The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't do that. But then he represents the Anglican Communion. And so he's in a very difficult place, which I wouldn't envy in the least. A nightmare. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:21
1:17:54 Yes? Report an error in the passage at 1:17:54
· · · silence, 1 minute
1:18:40 Well, the iconography is cultural. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:40
1:18:47 You know, for many of us, when we start in Buddhism, you should never bow down to graven images. For those who are brought up in the Christian or Jewish religions, you have this idea you shouldn't ever bow down to images, graven images. That's deeply imprinted. And then, you know, if you're Roman Catholic, I think they provide a range of images you can bow down to. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:47
1:19:16 But if you're Protestant, they don't give you a chance. They don't even have a crucifix. Being High Church Anglican, we had a nice Virgin Mary statue and that that I could do and crucifixes, but go to the Presbyterian Church and they wouldn't need a crucifix. They wouldn't allow. allow. so Report an error in the passage at 1:19:16
1:19:44 When I became a monk in Theravāda's tradition, I remember, you know, when I bowed down to Buddha Rūpa at first, you shouldn't bow down to the grave. This would come up in my mind. I didn't believe in it anymore because I knew what I was doing. Then looking at Buddha images, I began to use them as a meditation. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:44
1:20:09 And I find them very peaceful forms. So you find... If you're living around Buddha images, they have a good effect on your mind because they're representing peacefulness, human form in a state of awakened equanimity. So then that's the power of a Buddha image. My sister is an artist. In her old age, she's taken up... Report an error in the passage at 1:20:09
1:20:44 these icon These Byzantine icon paintings, you know, she does these traditional icons according to the Byzantine style. And it's very precise, you know, it's a very, it's a strict discipline, so it doesn't allow for a kind of personal interpretation. So she sees it as, before she was an artist that tried everything, you know, in modern art and whatnot, but... Report an error in the passage at 1:20:44
1:21:12 Now she just finds the peacefulness of just working within the guidelines of a traditional form. But then when I go to stay with my sister in her home, she's got these icons everywhere. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:12
1:21:27 And they're beautiful. You live in her house and everywhere you go you're surrounded by these icons. I find them exquisite. They have a good effect. This is just how I relate to them. But if I've been told that... Images are bad, then that will affect me, you know, that pagans worship images. Now paganism, according to, I would assume, is that if I said this Buddha image, you know, is the Buddha, then, you know, this marble thing behind me is the Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:27
1:22:07 That would, like, and it's got a special power, and I create something, oh, that would be more, like worshipping a, image but Iconography is more for reflection and awareness than belief. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:07
1:22:26 Paganism is generally, what they think, they see anything and they've got to label it some negative word. In the old Roger's Thesaurus, you know, pay it. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:26
1:22:40 You know, they've changed it now, but if you find an old edition of Roger's Thesaurus, you'll find Buddhism listed under Satanism, as a synonym for Satanism. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:40
1:22:53 Unfortunately, they've changed it. But that may be a hundred years ago, that's how, you know, Roger, you know, Satanism, paganism, all these things you don't know anything about, all go together. Hinduism, all that stuff, Roman Catholicism, they all go, if you're a Protestant, even Roman Catholicism can be, some Protestants are seen as kind of satanic thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:53
1:23:30 It's all conditioning, cultural conditioning. Now how you want to use? One time they had, in the Victoria and Albert Museum, They had, years ago they had a redundant churches exhibition. They had rooms filled with stained glass windows that they've taken out of redundant churches. And so you went in that room and there are all these passionate colors of purple and red and beautiful crucifixes and icons of saints. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:30
1:24:11 They tended to be quite passionate. powerful in their in the colors and the expressions the body language of the images agony on the cross and so forth you go spend an hour in that room and then you then you walk from that room into where the Buddha images are and the Buddha then in that room then they had this kind of lovely green lime green pale green color on the wall then they had these Report an error in the passage at 1:24:11
1:24:54 cooling There are these lovely images sitting there, and it's just how it affected my mind, you know, the colors and the forms of the images. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:54
1:25:13 like if you don't... If you just see Buddha images as pagan idols, then that's all you see. You can't see that they're peaceful. You just see, oh, pagan idol. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:13
1:25:27 It's bad. But if you, and that's a prejudice, so you miss out on them. You know, you kind of cut yourself off from seeing beyond your immediate reaction. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:27
1:25:50 So I think I'll stop here. Next Sunday I'll be here again. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:50
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Talk by Ajahn Sumedho. Original at Amaravati Buddhist Monastery via Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/ajahn-sumedho-dhamma-talks. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.
Talks of Ajahn Sumedho, archived on Internet Archive. More from Amaravati