← Carol Corradi

Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (29 March 2012)

Carol Corradi · 29 March 2012 · 1 h 35 min · Tse Chen Ling via Internet Archive

Download audio

Automated transcript, estimated accuracy about 90% for this source; report an error.

Words the recogniser was unsure of are underlined with dots. Use “Report an error” beside any passage to tell us what the teacher actually says.

Key passages

The teacher's own words, quoted from the transcript below and chosen automatically as representative.

  • 25:15

    You know, impermanence. Oh, sorry. Everything is impermanent. So, Patril Rinpoche says, you know, all roads and paths are impermanent. Think of this while walking. Sleep is impermanent. Wealth, food and drink are all impermanent. All those you love as well as ideas, thoughts and meditation experiences are all impermanent. So, you know, everything around us, everything that we're experiencing, it's all impermanent.

  • 27:24

    One of the purposes or one of the reasons why we want to meditate is to begin to change this mind a little bit, to change that mistaken view. Because part of the reason why we're in this cyclic existence here, which we'll talk about more later, is that we don't have an accurate view. We can't.

  • 1:23:58

    So the actual way to remember death involves this nine point meditation practice. And this is, Pabanko Rinpoche specified this, he described this nine part meditation on death and he also It talks about the meditation on the aspects of death. So here we're going to focus on this nine point death meditation. And it begins with, well actually there are three main points. One is that death is certain. One is that the time of, the second is that the time of death is uncertain.

  • 1:25:52

    So the first point that death is certain, the first point under that is that no power in the universe can stop death. So no matter how rich you are, how powerful, death is the great equalizer. You can buy great medical care and medicine and insurance and whatever, but you can't buy more time. And there's no place you can go to escape death. People die in cars, at work, on vacation, at home, you name it.

  • 1:31:27

    What you can do this week is just a start, is to just reflect on some of these things. You have the handouts, and that's a place to begin in terms of just meditating on that first point. That first point and then the two sub points. And you can go on if you want and look at the third point, which is basically that, you know, nothing's going to help us except Dharma. But even getting to these points. And then when you do that, again, when you finish, you know, it's really good to reflect on why we're doing this.

0:05 Good evening, everybody. It's shining in your face, isn't it? Jenna, could you move this a little bit? It's William's face. You see? Oh, that's a little bit better now. Okay. I just didn't watch it. It's kind of uncomfortable. Report an error

0:25 Okay, well, welcome, everybody. Thank you for your patience with our technical challenges here. Report an error

0:38 I hope you all had a good week. Did everybody get the Jeffrey Hopkins thing? Report an error

0:47 Oh, you did find it. Report an error

0:52 Oh, okay. Okay. Well, do let me know if you're not getting emails from me because I sent out the slides for tonight and I also sent out the readings for the class. And after, when the class is finished tonight, I have some copies for those of you who requested hard copies. And... Report an error

1:14 And I thought we'd start with tonight, oh good, is the Four Immeasurables on page 34. And then we'll do a little bit of meditation. Report an error

1:28 So it's in the Gold Book. And if you, you know, this is always very, very much up to you. If it feels right and you want to recite this prayer, that's fine. If you're, you know, not into it, you know, you just sort of contemplate for a while, think, start meditation a little bit early. Report an error

1:50 May all sentient beings have happiness and the causes of happiness. May all sentient beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering. May all sentient beings be inseparable from the happiness that is free from suffering and may all sentient beings abide in equanimity, free from attachment for friends and hatred for enemies. Report an error

2:11 let's just, as we set our motivation tonight. Report an error

2:18 do a little bit of meditation just... Again, check your posture, looking for a comfortable planted feeling, with your back straight, but not stiff. Imagine your spine as a row of coins. With your shoulders back and your head tilted forward slightly, your arms away from your sides a little bit, and you can have your right palm on your left with your thumbs touching, usually about maybe four inches below your navel. Report an error

2:53 Or you can just rest your palms on your knees, whichever is more comfortable for you. And then just begin, you can close your eyes if you like, or just have your eyes kind of looking down at the floor about three feet in front of you. Report an error

3:12 Maybe you can take a couple of deep breaths to just, as you exhale, just imagine letting go of all the tension in your body, Report an error

3:25 all the issues of the day, just clearing your mind and kind of disconnecting yourself from All the activity around us here. Report an error

3:42 Bring your attention to the breath. At this point, just breathe at a comfortable pace and Report an error

3:58 just try to count your breaths in and out. See if you can reach a count of ten without finding your mind distracted. But if you find yourself distracted, just gently bring your attention back to the breath. Report an error

· · ·

8:58 Wishes. Report an error

9:01 Generating the wish that all sentient beings might have happiness and we're Report an error

9:18 going thinking how good it would be. If all sentient beings have this Report an error

9:29 congenerating wish to make this happen by myself alone, that all sentient beings may have happiness. And Report an error

9:45 then thinking how good it would be if all sentient beings were free from suffering. And Report an error

10:02 the strong wish in your mind that this might happen, that all sentient beings would be free of suffering. Report an error

10:20 And then taking it a step further, taking that responsibility that I, myself, wish to make this happen, that all sentient beings be free from suffering. And Report an error

· · ·

11:11 then thinking how good it would be if all sentient beings were inseparable from the happiness that is free from suffering. Report an error

11:22 Generating the wish that this might be so in Report an error

11:33 the determination that I really want to work toward this end so that all sentient beings might be inseparable from this happiness that is free from suffering. Report an error

12:07 And then thinking how good it would be if all sentient beings would abide in equanimity. Free from attachment for friends and hatred for enemies. Report an error

12:29 And then making a wish that all sentient beings might abide in the community. That they might be free from attachment and hatred. And Report an error

13:03 then thinking, may I make this happen by my action. May all sentient beings abide in the community. Free from attachment for friends and hatred for enemies. Report an error

13:33 I'm just thinking that the best way to fulfill these wishes is for each of us to attain enlightenment, the most effective way to benefit both ourselves and all beings. Report an error

13:50 So generating that motivation, that wish to attain enlightenment, Report an error

14:00 so that we might benefit all beings. Report an error

· · ·

14:34 So how many people did get the readings and everybody's got things now? And what did you think? Did anybody have time to do some meditation? Report an error

14:51 I imagine it wasn't, well how did you find the Jeffrey Hopkins talk? Was it like a little too far beyond, a little too vague, or did it make sense in general? Report an error

15:06 Some video? Yeah, I know, that was kind of, yeah, I know, it's a little funny to me to say. It's a YouTube audio or something. But we'll talk a little bit about it. And Theo, I apologize. I had intended to try to transcribe it for you. Theo doesn't have internet access. Report an error

15:40 I'm sorry? Oh, okay. Okay, great. Great. Report an error

15:49 Whoever is good. An iPad is good. Yeah, I was looking to see if we had a computer. Actually, if I had thought about it, I could have shown it to you on mine, but I don't think I had about 15 minutes. It's about a 15-minute video. That's why I thought I would transcribe it. But we're going to go over some of it tonight anyway, just at least the important points. Report an error

16:12 So this is the second class of the... Oh, why is it not? Oh, it stopped doing it. Report an error

16:21 Just hit a return, I think you'll be okay. It's alright, sorry. Okay, no. Carriage return? Oh, there's a return button. Report an error

16:36 There you go. So tonight we're going to be talking primarily about meditating on death. And, you know, I wanted to ask, because last week was very busy, and this week is pretty busy as well, but while I was thinking about something else, it came to mind. That I was talking about the teachings of the Buddha last week. And I couldn't remember if I actually said 84,000 teachings or 64,000 teachings. Report an error

17:07 So I don't know if you remember that, but this may make you remember it. So it's 84,000 teachings. But sitting there thinking, what did I say? And somehow I wasn't sure which one, you know, what I had said. Just do a cancel. Hit cancel. Report an error

17:26 And, oh, you don't want to be in there. What you want to do is you want to be in a slideshow. Report an error

· · ·

18:08 I don't think so. It might be when it's Report an error

18:24 in the slideshow. Report an error

18:41 I don't know. Report an error

18:50 You know, Report an error

19:09 we said this is some of what Jeff and I have been talking about. Some of what we talked about last week, too. like that. Report an error

· · ·

19:18 In our conventional view, we think things, you know, remain the same. And we tend to be surprised when they change. And, you know, houses fall down. I think Jeffrey Hopkins talked about that. But a friend of mine this week mentioned a story, a family at the school where she works. I guess with all the rain, a couple nights ago, a huge redwood tree fell over. Report an error

19:46 And it took like the hillside with it and caused a landslide. And all of a sudden it's like their house just slid down the hill. And it's just, you know, it's impermanence. It's like, my gosh, how does this happen, you know? But it does. And we tend to project this kind of permanence on things around us. Report an error

20:07 But, you know, our jobs end. People, you know, you get laid off. People... Companies move overseas and leave hundreds of people out of work. We have to say goodbye to friends and family. It's our relationships. And usually when these things happen, we're not really ready for them. We're surprised. So this is this gross impermanence. Report an error

20:38 But then there's also this subtle impermanence. And that was the reason why I wanted you to listen to that. video or that YouTube Report an error

20:49 One of the quotes in there was that disintegration of all these compounded things is uncaused. In other words, the cause of a thing's disintegration is basically the cause of its production. The fact that it's been produced means it's going to be produced, it's going to exist momentarily and it's going to disintegrate. Report an error

21:14 It's hard for us to realize that This compounded phenomenon or everything we see around us do this. They arise, they exist, and they disintegrate every moment. I mean, it's not just the gross impermanence that we're talking about here. You know, things appear continuous to our senses because we really can't perceive these very subtle changes. Report an error

21:40 Over time, we see our faces changing. We see wrinkles. We feel creaking in our joints. You know, you cut an apple and you leave it out for a while and it turns brown. If you leave your bicycle out, you're going to find rust on it over time. If you look at your house for a while and kind of ignore it, the paint's going to start chipping. And if you have a car over time, you'll see lots of dents and nicks and things on that. Report an error

22:09 So this is that gross impermanence. And when we're surrounded and we're kind of... Like I said, we're used to seeing that, but we really are still surprised when a lot of these things happen anyway, because we're projecting a kind of permanence on things. But because we see this sort of gross impermanence, we sometimes think that something has to act on an object to make it change. Report an error

22:41 And the fact is, nothing has to act on it. It's by its very nature. is... It is in the nature of impermanence. So the fact that it was produced means it arises, it exists and it disintegrates. And this is what this subtle impermanence is about. And this is the way we need to learn or to understand dependent arising. Report an error

23:11 When we talk about emptiness in the Buddhist teachings, we say that You know, that things don't exist as they appear, that they don't inherently exist, but that they depend on, they exist in dependence upon causes and conditions. And, you know, I mean, that sounds pretty logical. I mean, you can say that all these things that we see, that we come in contact with, you know, have been produced, they've been built, they're dependent upon their parts and all these, and, you know, we're talking... Report an error

23:43 You can talk about this on the practical side, and then most of these arguments are coming from the philosophical side. But what I'm trying to get at here is we want to be really a little careful here about taking that view of dependent arising and kind of putting it on the practical side of things. Report an error

24:03 That, oh yeah, it's all dependent because somebody made it, because it didn't just arise by itself. It's much deeper than that. We have to try to get our minds around this subtle impermanence, this idea that moment to moment things are changing. I think in that video, Jeffrey Hopkins is talking about how, you know, he's talking to, like, Cho Song. It's like, you know, I talked to Cho Song a minute ago. Report an error

24:32 You know, he was actually different. You know, he appears the same to me. And it's not like in a moment we change into someone else. You know, we don't look completely different. Give us about 20 years and we'll look quite different. But, you know, even what we have to begin to recognize is even moment to moment these changes are happening. Report an error

24:54 And that's how we start to break down this projection that we have of permanent phenomena, of things staying the same. Report an error

25:06 And by the way, if you have any questions as we go along, please don't hesitate. take? So... Report an error

25:15 You know, impermanence. Oh, sorry. Everything is impermanent. So, Patril Rinpoche says, you know, all roads and paths are impermanent. Think of this while walking. Sleep is impermanent. Wealth, food and drink are all impermanent. All those you love as well as ideas, thoughts and meditation experiences are all impermanent. Report an error

25:36 So, you know, everything around us, everything that we're experiencing, it's all impermanent. Report an error

25:51 The question arises, we've talked about meditation here, and you might think, what's the point of meditation? Why do we meditate? And the short answer lies in the fact that meditation is a way to get to know our minds. Lama Yeshe called it the laboratory of the mind. Through analysis and concentration, this combination, we can bring conceptual thoughts to a deeper realization. Report an error

26:24 We can begin to take this view that we project on the world that we see around us where we see things existing very solidly. And we can even say, I mean, if you think about modern physics, nothing exists solidly. We can't even perceive it as we know scientifically it exists. I mean, most of the objects... Report an error

26:53 Including ourselves, are mostly space. You know, if you get down to the atomic level, there's just a lot of space between a lot of spinning particles. So, you know, it's just beyond our comprehension. But again, it sort of reinforces this concept of subtle impermanence and of impermanent phenomenon, things constantly changing. Report an error

27:23 when we... One of the purposes or one of the reasons why we want to meditate is to begin to change this mind a little bit, to change that mistaken view. Because part of the reason why we're in this cyclic existence here, which we'll talk about more later, is that we don't have an accurate view. We can't. Report an error

27:51 You know, we're sort of conditioned by all of this karma, these actions we've carried with us. And, you know, we've got imprints of ignorance. It's not that we don't have, you know, that there's something wrong with our minds or, you know, something broken. It's just that they're obscured. The nature of the mind is clarity. The nature of the mind is knowing. But at this point, We can't really access that. It's like having dirt on a mirror. So with meditation, we're able to analyze and use our concentration to examine these thoughts, these concepts that we have. Report an error

28:37 And then in terms of meditation, sometimes meditation is thought of as a stress reliever. Let's meditate to relieve our stress and to relax. And in the Buddhist tradition, that's not really the purpose of meditation. I think sometimes having a meditation practice can definitely lead you to cutting through stress. Report an error

29:03 But it's because you're working with your mind, because all that stress is coming from the mind. So what we'll be doing here is really learning to focus and to quiet this mind. And to try to, you know, access that clarity of mind. And then another reason why we meditate is to, you know, transform suffering into happiness. Report an error

29:31 Our suffering arises from this mistaken view because it leads us to think that, you know, I'm going to be happy if I satisfy my, you know. My wants, my desires. If I get this, I'll be happy. If I get that, or if I can get away from that person or away from this, then I'd really be happy. And that's called the self-cherishing mind. And it's a sense of mind that's always thinking, okay, what's going to make me happy? And it's a mind that arises out of just ignorance and just sort of reacting to what's around us in the world and trying to control. Report an error

30:13 That exterior world and thinking mistakenly that, you know, kind of equating the objects that we see as appear to us as being permanent, as being solidly existing. And then, you know, from that appearance, attachment arises. And we think, ah, yeah, that's what I really need. And so by meditating on these kinds of topics, meditating to really examine the nature. Report an error

30:42 A phenomenon. We're able to cut through that attachment. And when the attachment's gone, you know, the suffering is gone. We're able to see things and, you know, see things as they are. And we'll talk more about that later. But sometimes it's, um, the mind is, there's a... An analogy of sort of saying or a description, calling it the monkey mind. It's like the mind that's constantly jumping from one thing to another and, you know, always moving, always going after the next thing. Report an error

31:22 And so by using meditation, you know, we quiet that mind. We're able to control the mind. Report an error

31:36 And then in the longer term or the bigger picture, We have this goal of enlightenment. We talk about, you know, from a Buddhist perspective, we want to be out of this cyclic existence. We want to be free from that. We want to attain enlightenment. And the thing is, to do that, we can't really attain enlightenment by, you know, quote, living a good life or something. Report an error

32:05 You know, the Buddha gave all these teachings, and you can sum up the Buddha's teachings. By saying, you know, do no harm, and if you can, help, you know, be of benefit. But just doing that isn't really going to calm our minds. It might make us a little happier, you know, now and then, and we'll at least be living a positive life, creating some positive karma. But that's really not going to transform our minds. Report an error

32:33 It's not like, you know, like enlightenment is some sort of a reward or a place we go after we die. Enlightenment is It's a state of being. Report an error

32:50 It's dependent on the clarity of mind. And when I mentioned before, I think I said, you know, Buddha means awakened one. So that's something we have to do ourselves. We have this capability. And sometimes you'll hear something about Buddha nature or Buddha potential. It's a, it's a, a state of, um, Report an error

33:11 You know, this enlightened potential. And it's said that, you know, all sentient beings have this. We're all born with the capability. Because from a Buddhist perspective, you know, it's not, there is no, although you see these deities around us, these pictures, they represent enlightened activities, sort of the embodiment of this enlightened energy. Report an error

33:32 So it's not that there are, you know, these beings that can snap their fingers, these enlightened beings who can snap their fingers and make us enlightened. It's something that, you know, we have to do with ourselves, with our own minds. And we all have that capability. And so, you know, the need for that, we need a method. Report an error

33:55 And the one thing I wanted to mention, too, is that it's kind of like our teacher Geshe-Dakpo was saying in the Wednesday class. He was talking about, you know, like causes and potential. In this case, having that enlightened potential doesn't mean we're enlightened now. It's kind of like having a seed, having a seedling. Report an error

34:24 The seedling has to grow. You've got a pumpkin seed in your pocket. You're not carrying around a pumpkin. You've just got a seed. It's got that potential, but it needs soil, it needs water, it needs sunshine. All these causes and conditions have to come together. So the same thing for us. And the Buddha taught the path to enlightenment, and one of the requirements or needs to reach this goal is a realization of emptiness. Report an error

34:56 And so when I talk about emptiness, I'm talking about, again, how we're perceiving the world around us, this phenomenon, how it exists, and how it appears to exist. And the view of emptiness... Explains that the way things appear to us, to our unenlightened minds, is not the way they actually exist. So this is why we're projecting a lot of other qualities like permanence on these objects. And this realization of emptiness goes well beyond an intellectual level. Report an error

35:37 It's something that, you know... It's the way an enlightened being views all phenomena. So we can talk about it. We can try to wrap our minds around it. But to really understand it, to really get it, is a gradual process. And it's one that needs this method. And the method relies on a special kind of meditation. And that meditation is calm abiding and special insight. Report an error

36:08 So by, you know, Without meditating we have very little chance to actually ever attain this goal of enlightenment. Report an error

36:23 So meditation itself, in Tibetan the word is gom, and we call this room we're sitting in a gompa. It's a room where people meditate. And gom, if you translate it, means to habituate or become familiar with. So we need to become familiar with our own minds. Report an error

36:45 And we need to discover this, you know. You know, this wisdom within ourselves, this awareness. And then in the process of doing that, what we need to do is to develop some mental control. Because, you know, if you try to meditate at all, you know it's not easy to sit down and not have the chatter start. Report an error

37:12 Or, you know, you can start with your breath and then maybe in ten minutes' time... You might be having a thought about what you're doing later today and have planned out your whole day at this point. So meditation, we need to, it requires practice and effort. Because what we have to do, and this again comes with this kind of effort, this quieting and controlling the mind. Report an error

37:46 The mind is just, you know, it's a steady stream of thoughts, emotions, feelings, everything's arising. And, you know, we're not trying to empty our heads of all thoughts. What we're trying to do is just let them go. So, you know, when we're meditating, sometimes the way we approach it is, you know, when thoughts arise, just see them like, you know, as though they're clouds against a clear blue sky. Report an error

38:11 Just let it go. No, you know, don't have to get into commentary. How you ended up getting over here, what brought you to that thought and that thought, just let it go. And over time, as you work with this, as you keep bringing the mind back to your object of concentration, it begins to become a more natural state. Report an error

38:42 Tenzin Palmo said this, that our minds should be spacious and peaceful, but also clear, bright and aware. And then awareness should be vivid, unwavering, shining and sharp. There's a sense that a light has gone on in the mind. It's very bright and clear. So when we get up for meditation, we should be vivid and clear and bright and not spaced out. Report an error

39:07 We're not here to become some sort of bliss cloud. We're trying to be more present, more crisp, more aware. Report an error

39:18 It's not just kind of spacing out. If we're spacing out, then we've pretty much missed the point. So there are two types of meditation, concentration or stabilizing meditation. And in that case, we're placing the mind on an object. And through repeated and sustained effort and practice, we're trying to keep it there. Report an error

39:47 When we do this kind of concentration meditation, when we did the meditation on the breath, that's a concentration meditation. You can use any object. Report an error

39:57 But it's said that it's beneficial to use an object that's going to leave positive imprints. So, you know, that depends on you. It could be a sense of, you know, Buddha. It could be a visualization of a Buddha statue. It could be white light. It could be positive energy, love. Report an error

40:16 of, you know, if... It could be God, it could be whatever deity you think. Report an error

40:26 It could also just be, again, the breath. It's just that practice of keeping, of training the mind and keeping it there. And then the analytical meditation uses the mind to analyze its object until a moment of insight is reached. And then you use this concentration meditation to deepen that experience and gain insight. So the purpose there is to really take a topic like death or rebirth or impermanence or love and compassion and really analyze it, think about it. Report an error

41:09 And then when you get to a point where you feel like... You've had a breakthrough with a long-held view that, ah, now you've just cut through something. Maybe you're meditating on death and you've just had this sudden deep feeling of, wow, this deep realization that I'm going to die. You stay with that. Now you just concentrate and focus on that. And then when the feeling fades, you go back to analyzing. Report an error

41:43 It's a method that we will probably use often in this class, and it's a very useful method for bringing things that perhaps you can even do it with books you've read, teachings. When you go to a teaching, it's very good to kind of take what you've learned and bring it to a deeper level of realization. So guidelines for meditation. Report an error

42:13 Posture is one of them. We've talked about that a little bit. And we'll be doing more of that as we go through class so that it becomes pretty rote for you. Report an error

42:29 Keeping our back straight, you know, but not stiff and trying not to slump because it can be a really good nap. And then, you know, breathing. You just want to find an easy, comfortable way to breathe. It doesn't have, you know. You don't have to have some sort of deep breathing. Sometimes when you're in a really deep meditation, you don't even notice your breathing. It becomes just like it's not even there. Report an error

42:55 And then it's really important for your meditation practice to set a regular time and place. And it doesn't have to be long. You can start out with five minutes. It's really good if you can do it every day, if you can make time. Report an error

43:13 Experience the results more quickly. If you can't, then set a time once a week and try to stick with it though. Be realistic in terms of what you can do. And try to be regular with your time. Pretty much stay with the time. If your meditation is going really well, end it when the time is right. You don't extend it when it's going really well. Report an error

43:41 If it's going really well and you leave at that time, you finish it, it makes you want to come back to it. You leave with that great thought. And if it's not going well at all, you're having a really tough time, you don't end it early either. Report an error

43:56 You want to just, you know, you don't want to create the habits of this sort of, oh, I'm having a great day, so I have a long meditation today, but, you know, most of the time I have really terrible meditation, so I, you know, I hardly sit at all. By repeating this, by really staying with that constant time, then you'll be able to, you know, you'll get to a point where every session is quite good. Report an error

44:21 And then you'll be anxious to get on to more and longer times. So that's how we, you know, it's like training for anything. We have to go through that tough time, you know, when you're exercising and, you know, learning a new... Weight training routine, it's hard at first, but as you kind of force yourself through it, it gets easier, it gets better, and then you want to go on to more. Report an error

44:50 Then the third part is the preparation, and there's something called the six preliminary practices, which we'll probably talk about next week. But it's good to have a place to sort of meditate, have a place set aside. Where you can meditate in a place that's yours, that's your private place so that you don't have to feel like you're going to be disturbed or that someone's going to come and use your space. Report an error

45:18 It's nice if it can be yours alone. And then with this preparation we'll talk about things we can do to kind of prepare our minds to make it a more beneficial practice. Report an error

45:36 Meditation tips is not to get discouraged. Tenzin Palmo says, you know, that if your mind is crazy, that's proof of the need to meditate, not a reason to quit. And we have to just try to stay with it. You know, we have to make it a daily priority and just keep trying. And, you know, not to be too hard, but not to be too easy. Report an error

46:01 So be gentle, but, you know, not so gentle. We're lazy. Report an error

46:09 So Lama Atisha said, you know, if one doesn't meditate on death and impermanence in the morning, the whole day is wasted. If not in the afternoon, the evening is wasted. If not in the evening, the whole night is wasted. So it's about remembering, remembering this death. So we'll get into this more. Report an error

46:32 So the purpose, you know, you might, I think we talked about this a little bit before, but the purpose of meditating, It's first to increase our awareness and taking that belief to a deeper level, that realization, knowing that everyone dies. We've all experienced loss, but it's not everyone dies, it's I'm going to die, and then it's I'm dying. Report an error

47:05 It's like the hourglass has been flipped over. Time's going. That's it. It's slipping away. And then why do we want to do this? What's the purpose? When we finally realize that, then we're motivated. I have a reason. It's like, okay, what am I going to do with the time I have? The idea of just having time to kill goes away. Report an error

47:32 It's like every moment becomes precious. The idea, you know, how can you be bored? You've got this precious time. And then another purpose is to be able to let go. You know, when we start looking, realizing that, you know, that death is certain, that, you know, this inevitability of death, we start thinking, you know, or realizing what is there to hold onto when Report an error

48:06 we, you know, when it comes. When death comes, I have to let go of everything. And how difficult is that going to be if I've done nothing to prepare? How would it be if I died in my next breath? Total panic. Then it becomes, how do I prepare? What should I do? And then we meditate on death to overcome self-cherishing. Report an error

48:34 I mentioned the self-cherishing mind before, and it's that mind that keeps us in this denial, this sort of, oh, I'm going to live forever kind of mindset, because the self-cherishing mind has a view that, oh, if I think about death, I'm just going to be unhappy. You know, it's going to be depressing. But in fact, you know, it's the opposite. When we really examine and are aware and accept this truth, it's very freeing. Report an error

49:04 Because now all of the things that seem so important from this mundane self-cherishing perspective no longer matter. It frees us from all that attachment that kind of makes us a slave to the worldly things, to having to get this and accomplish that and keep up with that person and this and all those things. Report an error

49:27 And then finally, to increase mindfulness. Mindfulness is really about Being present, being in the moment, not spacing out, living each moment. How are we doing on time? Report an error

49:49 Okay, let's do the next one and then we'll take a break. So, you know, each of us is unique. I mean, there's not a single being who's exactly like you because we're each the product of our karma, you know? Report an error

50:09 I think in that talk, Jeffrey Hopkins said, yeah, if you want to know about your past, look at your body. So that's where we are. What we've got today, this life that we have, it came from these causes and conditions. And it said, I mean, I can look around this room and we all have this precious human rebirth. And a precious human rebirth is about, it's not only about being born in this human realm, we'll talk about realms later, but... Report an error

50:38 It's having a body and a life that's kind of qualified with these freedoms and endowments. So if you think about the fact that we're here, it means we've all got healthy bodies. We're not ill. We're mobile. We have clear minds. We're able to study and to learn. We're born at a time when the teachings exist. Report an error

51:05 That's a huge thing. We're born in a place where we can, you know, we have the freedom to study, to practice, to do what we want. We're born in this life, we have the benefit of having stable lives. We've got places to live, enough food to eat. We're not having to worry about, you know, the necessities of life so much that, you know, we can't even think about our minds and about studying this stuff. Report an error

51:28 So, you know, this really is a precious, precious time. And it's said that gaining this precious human rebirth is the result of... You know, really excellent karma. But it also, you know, it's this opportunity. And if we don't do something with it, it's said that it comes about, you know, rarely, you know, for all these conditions and causes to come together to, you know, to give us this kind of a birth, a result in this perfect human rebirth. Report an error

51:59 And, you know, no one can escape death. We're all going to die. And something to think about is that, you know, We could die before attaining our spiritual goals. And it's said that we've all attained realizations, high realizations, many times before. So, in many lives. There are qualities called the Siddhis, which is a Sanskrit term, but I'm not sure the definition, but it just basically means these realizations and qualities of sort of Report an error

52:38 Beyond the ordinary. And it's said that we've all attained all of these, but we've lost them. The only thing, when I talked before about realizing emptiness, emptiness is a point at which when we attain that kind of realization, there's no slipping back. At that point, that is sort of the door out of the cyclic existence. But until we reach that kind of realization... Report an error

53:06 Other realizations that we reach, you know, we can lose again. So, you know, again, it's just like, yeah, you know, how many times have we had a precious human rebirth? How many times have we had realizations? How long is this just going to keep circling around and, you know, diving back down again? And then, you know, again, it's what we face after death is rebirth and it's subject to our karma and delusions. Report an error

53:34 Could be a higher realm, could be a lower realm. So we talk about these realms, this existence, this cyclic existence is part of what's called the desire realm. And that's why desire figures so strongly, this attachment, this aversion. And within that desire realm, there's a formless realm, which is a higher realm of existence, a form realm, which is just below that, and then another what's called desire realm. Report an error

54:06 We sort of have two names for two different things. So there's sort of the bigger desire realm, which encompasses the form and the formless realm. And then this realm that we're in, of which it said there are like six different realms of existence or six different states of being. I think maybe states of being is a better way to say it rather than realm. But, you know, we see animals. You know, that's one, animals, insects. Report an error

54:32 they're Basically three lower states, and the lowest is, it'll be mentioned in here, like what are considered the hell beings, which they're beings who just, life is just basically all suffering, and it can be suffering of heat, suffering of cold. Report an error

54:55 There's a realm of, it's called the hungry ghost realm, so it's beings in the hungry ghost state. They are never satisfied. It's like they're always hungry or thirsty and there's nothing for them to eat or to drink. And when they find something, it's contaminated by our standards and they're said to have, you know, like their bodies don't even allow them to ingest this, you know, whatever they see. Report an error

55:27 And then there's the human realm, or there's the animal realm. And then there are three states above that, which are the human realm. Report an error

55:35 As humans, we see the human realm, we see the animal realm. There's said to be a realm above humans, the realm of the jealous gods. So it's a realm where beings are said to be just fighting all the time. There's a lot of jealousy, a lot of envy arising. And the jealousy arises because this realm of these beings can perceive This higher realm, which is called a god realm or god beings, who have very, very long, pleasant, comfortable lives. Report an error

56:16 And it is a higher state of being, but the catch of course is that after spending, it's like arriving at this wonderful life by virtue of having created positive karma. But at the end of this very long life, there's basically a vision of what the next rebirth will be. And at that point, it's kind of a message for us because it's generally, it's a lower rebirth because the being is spent, you know. Report an error

56:54 This very long life just being comfortable and happy. There's no motivation to do anything, to learn anything, to practice transforming the mind. It's simply sort of a realm of blissful existence. And so this is sort of like the last week is this terrifying picture or preview of what the next rebirth is going to be. Report an error

57:16 And if you look at these, the Dalai Lama often says you can look at these as just kind of psychological aspects. of what we experience in this life. You know, the animal realm is really, or the animal state revolves mainly around ignorance because you have beings who just, they don't have the capacity to change their minds, to do, you know, they're sort of stuck in this existence. Report an error

57:43 And some animals have a very pleasant life, but most animals have a very difficult life. They're either predators or they're prey. And that's the whole gamut of insects and all animals. And then the hungry ghost beings you can see is just that sort of never being satisfied, that insatiable desire arising. Report an error

58:13 And you can see that in some people. And it's said that with the hell beings it's just a result of hatred. and sort of just the... The heaviest kind of negative actions. So, you know, we can look at these and we can think about, you know, where, you know, look at our minds and think, okay, where will I take rebirth? Report an error

58:38 What am I doing with this life, with this time? So, the thing, you know, the thing to remember as we go through all this is that it's all, you know, it's our choice. It's what we do. Report an error

58:57 The ability to, you know, really make the best of this opportunity or, you know, to throw it away. And we can take whatever circumstances they are or given and we can, you know, we can transform them. We can use them. We can use them on this path. So let's take a little break. Report an error

59:26 All right. Report an error

59:31 Give him a star. Good going, Russ. Let's take a really, I need to get some water. Let's take a really short break. There's some cookies in there. You can grab, you know, you can grab tea and come back if you like. Does anybody have any questions or anything yet? Okay. Thea? Report an error

59:57 Oh, yeah. Oh, do you want to? Report an error

1:00:11 Is it true that somewhere you said through the meditations on death? Theo. Report an error

1:00:17 And during death, you can enter the Bartos and redirect your next life into a positive rebirth? That's a good question. You know, what I have heard, and I'm happy to check on this, one of the reasons for meditating on death and on the stages of death is that we can use, if we're familiar with the death process, which we're not really talking about here yet, but later on we probably will. Report an error

1:00:45 There are certain stages that... The mind and body, or the mind basically goes through in the death process. And there are certain points there that you go through that if you know, if you're familiar, and you've achieved the kind of mental acuity and control, you can alter, you can basically Report an error

1:01:18 Take yourself out of cyclic existence. It's kind of like in the process of realizing emptiness that you can use the death process to achieve the same kind of result. But I don't know for sure about how that proceeds in terms of the bardo and so I'll try to look into that. Report an error

1:01:44 And there may be, you know, something else that I'm just not aware of. But yes, definitely, I mean, the Dalai Lama has talked about, this gets more into the tantric practices and using those practices to really, that's why it said that the tantric path can be, that you can actually achieve enlightenment Report an error

1:02:11 in a single lifetime, you know, yeah. but, um... But lots of, you know, that's another reason to meditate on death and to be familiar with death. Report an error

1:02:28 But we can use things like the dream states and different, you know, it's a whole area of study. Report an error

· · ·

1:03:20 The Report an error

· · ·

1:06:49 tradition, yeah. Report an error

1:06:55 Oh, it's a very good book. Yeah, yeah. I'll have to look at it again because, yeah. Yeah, I haven't read it in a long time, so that would be a good companion book with this. Report an error

1:07:37 It's actually, yeah, you know, there was a, there's a book that, a very old text, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and it's been, there are a lot of translations out there, and there are some that were more, I think I have one by, there's a famous one by Evans Wentz, and that one is actually not a very good translation, but Sohyo Rinpoche. Report an error

1:08:01 Translated and wrote the commentary, which is the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, you know, more recently. And there probably are some other ones out there as well now. Report an error

1:08:14 Yeah, the text really about the, you know, the death and dying. Report an error

1:08:39 He doesn't have time to read it. Report an error

1:09:01 sure it's going to be the 19th Monday. Report an error

1:09:13 is on a rally. Report an error

1:09:27 Yeah, yeah, you know. Report an error

· · ·

1:10:00 -hmm. Thank you. You know what, I want to say, there are actually some good meditations, but I was thinking even for stuff about, yeah, yeah. Report an error

1:10:30 You know there's liberation prison projects they send British books to the world. They used to be based here. I don't know, I mean, you might be able to say, hey look, did you send something here? And they pretty much have basic books too. I mean, and books especially for people who are, you know. I was going to say, if you wanted to copy something, one Report an error

1:11:21 of them was when the chocolate runs out. Report an error

1:11:37 -hmm. Yeah. Report an error

1:11:42 -hmm, mm-hmm. Report an error

1:11:56 I'm just trying to think of a book that is really relevant. Let me think about it a little bit. Report an error

1:12:09 okay. Report an error

1:12:12 No, that's not, no, that's not. But, yeah, now is probably a good time to even... Yeah. I want you to be able to stand up. Here we go. Report an error

1:12:29 Right. Or, yeah. And that's great if you'll actually to it. You know. That's great. Report an error

1:12:44 So are we all back? Back where, I guess. Report an error

1:12:55 So trying to not get, you know there's a balance here, as there is in everything, because Buddhism is always, it's the middle way and it's the way between the extremes. So, you know, even when we talk about remembering death, we have to have a balance. guess, I don't know. Report an error

1:13:18 And we talk about how we have to use every minute and still I've never met a Lama who wasn't light and giggly and still having fun. We're not trying to become crazily focused on that. It's always about kind of seeing the way between the extremes and finding. Using that, using what we need to be motivated, but to do it in a middle way method. Never to go to the extreme of fanaticism or the extreme of just total laziness and lack of interest. Report an error

1:14:12 So with that, let's go to the next slide. So these are the drawbacks or the six disadvantages of not remembering death. So the first is that you won't remember the Dharma, practice it. We all know how easy it is to get distracted by the affairs of this life. You spend your time on all sorts of mundane things from movies to books to food, drink, relationships, family. Report an error

1:14:42 Your job, your education, all these things. They're all taking your time. And it's one of the things, if we just forget about death, it's going to be even harder to carve out time for this practice, for this study. Report an error

1:15:05 And then the second is that you'll remember the Dharma, but you won't want to practice it. Same way. It's like you think about it, but it's very easy to postpone. You'll meditate later. You'll do those readings later. Oh, I'll do my practice when I get older and I'm less busy. Or, you know, I'll do my retreats when I retire. And kind of always falling into that false reliance of always having more time. Report an error

1:15:34 And the problem there is that, you know, if you plan it for later, later might never come. It could be a real downfall. And then the third is that you'll practice, but not practice properly. It's easy to practice for the wrong reasons, like just reputation or ego, or maybe you'll practice as long as it's easy to practice. Report an error

1:16:00 And when it gets hard, you'll stop that. The eight worldly concerns are worldly thoughts that arise when we receive gain, When we receive comfort or no comfort, fame or notoriety, praise or criticism. So the mind, it kind of gets attached to all the positive sides of that, to gain and to praise and to comfort and fame. Report an error

1:16:37 And then aversion arises to the other side of that. So we become unhappy. The mind immediately gets disturbed when faced with not receiving something or facing discomfort, not being treated the way I want to be, or this is just too hard. Report an error

1:17:00 When fame becomes notoriety or praise turns into blame or criticism, it's called the worldly... concerns or the mundane concerns because That's sort of what's out there in terms of how we want to live our lives, how we should get ahead. Nobody wants, you know, everybody wants wealth. They want fame, they want praise, and they want comfort. Nobody wants the opposites of any of those or the lack of those. So if we don't remember death, we're Report an error

1:17:41 We might practice, but it'll be easy for our practice to just kind of fall apart. And Atisha says, you know, the results of thinking only about this life are merely the results of this life. Report an error

1:17:56 Ask me what will happen in your next lives and I will tell you. You will be reborn in hell as a hungry ghost or an animal. So, you know, without any Dharma practice, we're not going to be able to obtain another precious human labor. It's like the idea of the God realms where we're just exhausting positive karma, the karma that we created to get here. Report an error

1:18:21 So the fourth drawback or disadvantage is that you will lose your determination to practice and will eventually drop it altogether. So you might practice but you won't practice seriously. Report an error

1:18:36 Kind of do it mindlessly or on autopilot. Maybe while you're doing something else. You'll be doing your readings and watching TV or something. And you'll do it with the knowledge that there's always time. Maybe I'll do it more seriously later. But if you think about it, if you knew you were going to die tonight, would you change your practice? Report an error

1:19:00 Would you be doing something differently? It said that that's really how we should be doing our practice with that kind of mindset. Report an error

1:19:11 And then you will continue creating negative actions and will not attain liberation. So, you know, if we're craving the mundane things of this life, that craving will increase if we don't remember death. We'll just kind of fall into that hole, you know, the mundane or worldly actions. Report an error

1:19:34 As you crave those things, you know, your actions change to try to get them. And you start, you know, creating harm and your attachment increases, as does your ignorance and your hatred. I mean, those things just kind of, it's something that, it's just like the meditation practice. It's like when we're working to transform our minds, then we begin to see results. Report an error

1:20:00 And as soon as, you know, if we let go of that and we just go with, you know. Kind of being like a ping pong ball at the whim of desire, our actions follow and we're just going to lose all of the beneficial qualities that perhaps we were attaining while we were trying to have a practice trying to do this. Report an error

1:20:25 So very important to continue this practice to remember. Report an error

1:20:36 Remember the importance of these efforts as far as what's coming. Report an error

1:20:46 And then finally, the final disadvantage is that at the time of death you will suffer intense regret. So, you know, it's just an awareness that you wasted your life. That awareness will come to you and it'll be too late to do anything about it. Report an error

1:21:08 A place we don't want to be. So then the advantages of remembering death is that your Dharma practice becomes very pure. Because remembering death will lead you through the whole lamrim practice and beyond, or the lamrim path and beyond. It turns you away from these mundane goals, these worldly goals, kind of the reverse of what we just said. It gives you this chance, this wish to practice Dharma. Report an error

1:21:16 Okay. Um. Report an error

1:21:39 then, um, that's it. And then your Dharma actions become powerful and effective. You attain these results and you attain them more quickly because you're practicing more frequently and it's like a higher quality practice. Report an error

1:22:04 And it's said that remembering death is beneficial at the beginning of your practice because It's a cause for you to really start practicing. It's kind of the cause, the motivation to get you going. And then it's beneficial in the middle of your practice because it helps you avoid those eight worldly concerns or those mundane concerns. Report an error

1:22:29 And it inspires you when you get tired or when you start to lose interest in your practice. It keeps you going. It's natural to have ups and downs. But, know, remembering death... It gives you that determination to continue. And then it's beneficial at the end of your practice because it helps you push through as you begin to reach attainments. Report an error

1:22:55 It keeps you going. And it's kind of like taking antibiotics. You have an infection, you take antibiotics, and even after you start to feel better and the signs of the illness are gone, we continue. We finish the prescription. So, um, it's, it's... It's beneficial in the same way. It carries you through and back to a beneficial place. Report an error

1:23:24 And the final benefit is that you will die happily and with satisfaction. So you will know that you've spent your life meaningfully, even though you've lived an ethical life. And you will die without regrets. It's said that a good Dharma student dies happily. A medium student dies without fear and at the very least we can hope to die without regret. So by spending this time I think we have that satisfaction. Report an error

1:23:58 So the actual way to remember death involves this nine point meditation practice. And this is, Pabanko Rinpoche specified this, he described this nine part meditation on death and he also It talks about the meditation on the aspects of death. So here we're going to focus on this nine point death meditation. Report an error

1:24:26 And it begins with, well actually there are three main points. One is that death is certain. One is that the time of, the second is that the time of death is uncertain. And the third is that the only thing that will help you at the time of death is your Dharma practice. So under each of these three points are three more points. Report an error

1:24:47 So that's where the nine points come in. And we're going to go through this in detail in the class. So tonight we're going to focus on just the first point. And the point of this is so that you get familiar with it and it's something that, you know, you can do in your own practice, you can do at home. Report an error

1:25:07 And the Buddha said that, you know, meditation on death and impermanence is the most important meditation one can do. So this is really, you know, the heart of the practice. As I was saying before, remembering death and remembering impermanence really helps to cut through that sense of inherent existence, especially when we talk about the inherently existing I. Report an error

1:25:37 This I is at the root of a lot of our problems when it comes to attachment and aversion. It's coming from this sense of... Sort of a permanent eye. Report an error

1:25:52 So the first point that death is certain, the first point under that is that no power in the universe can stop death. So no matter how rich you are, how powerful, death is the great equalizer. Report an error

1:26:07 You can buy great medical care and medicine and insurance and whatever, but you can't buy more time. And there's no place you can go to escape death. Report an error

1:26:21 People die in cars, at work, on vacation, at home, you name it. Report an error

1:26:32 Sometimes they're just unbelievable stories. A friend of mine, years ago, she had been married less than a year and she and her husband lived back east, kind of in a wooded area, in a cottage. Report an error

1:26:50 They were in their 20s. And, yeah, it's just... Report an error

1:26:52 One night, you know, he came home and they had, I think their bedroom was like a loft. It went like in a little cabin. And as he climbed up, he slipped, he fell. He broke his arm. One of the bones severed an artery. And before, you know, EMS could get there, he died. I mean, it's just like, it makes you think, how can this happen? Report an error

1:27:20 It's just, these are... These are stories that, you know, it's not about focusing on how awful these things are. It's about focusing on the fact that they happen, you know, and that they can happen. And, you know, in our minds we kind of think, you know, that can't, oh, you hear these things. But, you know, that's a situation that actually happened to a friend of mine, you know. You know, and when you hear this, it brings it back. Report an error

1:27:52 It makes it. real. It doesn't matter if you're doing great things. Report an error

1:28:05 Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, everybody dies. Report an error

1:28:15 The next point is that your life span is always decreasing. The Sūtra of Cosmic Play. you know? Report an error

1:28:21 So, um... Report an error

1:28:26 Here it says, the three realms are impermanent like a cloud in the autumn sky. Watching as people are born and die is the same as theater. The passing of a person's life is a single flash of lightning. We rush on our way to the end with speed like a mountain waterfall. So, you know what? I wanted to do a little meditation tonight. Report an error

1:28:48 Maybe we'll just finish this point and we'll start next time with this meditation. So... Basically, we can't add any moments to our life. Report an error

1:29:04 Once we're born, it's like we've left the plane or we've stepped off the cliff. We can't reverse our direction. We can't stop time. Moments past are lost, and every breath brings us closer to death. And every action we do could be our last. The Kadampa Geshes used to wash their cups out and then leave them upside down in case they died. Report an error

1:29:26 They'd make their beds in case they never lay down in them again. And, you know, when we think about this, we don't think about it. Report an error

1:29:39 I remember I was taking care of my mom and she was in the hospital and at that point she was suffering from heart failure and she leaned over to me and she said, If I stay here, I'm going to die. I want to die at home. Please take me home. So I called the doctor, was able to take her home, brought her home that night, and of course I didn't sleep a wink because I just kept checking and thinking, oh my gosh, this is it. Report an error

1:30:11 And then the next morning she woke up and I thought, oh, wow, this is good. Maybe, you know, and She sort of went through her usual routine, and I thought, okay, maybe I can find another hospital, maybe they can do something more than this other place was doing, and maybe there's some hope here. And then she was taking a little nap, and she called me, and I, you know, went to, she wanted to come and watch TV, and I walked her to the living room, and she walked faster than I'd ever seen her walking. Report an error

1:30:40 She had a walker, and she was just flying down the hall. She got to the living room, she sat down, and she took her last breath. And I just saw the surprise on her face. And it's just like, it's amazing. You know, it's just one breath. And that's the last thing. So we really, you know, as Lama Zopa Rinpoche says, we spend our lives running toward a cliff and that cliff is death. And then Lama Tsongkhapa says, don't take comfort because you haven't died yet. Report an error

1:31:13 That's like a man who's fallen off a cliff. Taking comfort in the fact that he's still in midair and hasn't hit the ground. So on that note, we'll end tonight. Report an error

1:31:27 What you can do this week is just a start, is to just reflect on some of these things. You have the handouts, and that's a place to begin in terms of just meditating on that first point. Report an error

1:31:40 That first point and then the two sub points. And you can go on if you want and look at the third point, which is basically that, you know, nothing's going to help us except Dharma. But even getting to these points. And then when you do that, again, when you finish, you know, it's really good to reflect on why we're doing this. Report an error

1:32:00 So that, you know, bringing it back to that middle view so that you don't walk away feeling like, oh gosh, what do I do now? You know. Knowing that death is just a transition. It's a transition to the next rebirth. And we've got all this opportunity to make the most of it and to be of huge benefit here. Report an error

1:32:22 So keep that in the picture so that the whole falling off the cliff doesn't bring you down. So let's do a little bit of dedication meditation. Report an error

1:32:49 reflecting on. The efforts here of studying this, looking at death, studying a really hard subject, impermanence, facing these truths, and really having this strong wish to transform our minds, to change our minds, to let go of these worldly concerns, and turn our minds to the Dharma, to this worthwhile practice, dedicating all the effort, all the time spent here, that we might attain enlightenment for the sake. Report an error

1:33:25 of all mother sentient beings, all sentient beings, and that we can use this time and this insight to develop realizations that will lead us to an ever stronger practice and to this ultimate freedom from this psychic existence and enlightenment. Report an error

1:33:54 Thank you. Report an error

1:34:01 Oh, whoever wanted a hard copy of the readings, they're here. We've got a few extras here, so I think five people had raised their hands and there were about seven copies. And if you're doing the readings, no, that's not that, Theo, these are the readings. Report an error

1:34:27 So yeah, Report an error

1:34:37 just start through the readings. Next week we'll talk about them maybe a little bit more. And again, just try to do a little meditation on that. Report an error

Report an error

Passage at . Please listen to the audio before you suggest a fix.

Suggest a fix

Passage at . Please listen to the audio before you suggest a fix.

Related talks

  1. Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (22 March 2012)

    Carol Corradi · 22 March 2012 · 1 h 37 min

  2. Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (3 May 2012)

    Carol Corradi · 3 May 2012 · 1 h 59 min

  3. Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (5 April 2012)

    Carol Corradi · 5 April 2012 · 1 h 4 min

  4. Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (19 April 2012)

    Carol Corradi · 19 April 2012 · 1 h 36 min

  5. Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (12 April 2012)

    Carol Corradi · 12 April 2012 · 1 h 27 min

  6. Discovering Buddhism - Death and Rebirth (26 April 2012)

    Carol Corradi · 26 April 2012 · 1 h 17 min

Talk by Carol Corradi, recorded 29 March 2012. Original at Tse Chen Ling Center for Tibetan Buddhist Studies via Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/CC_DeathAndRebirth_20120322. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 3.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.

Recorded at Tse Chen Ling Center, San Francisco, and archived by the center on Internet Archive. More from Tse Chen Ling

Listen on Internet Archive · CC BY-NC-ND 3.0