The Heart Sutra (18 January 2008)

0:00 Well said, well said, son of the lineage, it is like that. It is like that. One should practice the profound perfection of wisdom just as you have indicated. Even the Tathagattas rejoice. The Bhagavan having thus spoken, the venerable Sharivadiputra, the Bodhisattva, Mahasattva, Arya, Avalokiteshvara. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:23 Those surrounding in their entirety along with the world of gods, humans, asuras and Gandharvas were overjoyed and highly praised. That's spoken by the Bhagavan. Report an error in the passage at 0:23 Highlight the passage at 0:23

0:43 I warned you last week that we have a lot to cover tonight, so we'll get going. Report an error in the passage at 0:43 Highlight the passage at 0:43

0:55 So last week we finished talking about the four modes of emptiness, right? Form is empty, emptiness is form. Form is not other than emptiness. Emptiness is not other than form. So that was how one practices the perfection of wisdom on the paths of accumulation and the path of preparation. Report an error in the passage at 0:55 Highlight the passage at 0:55

1:22 So then we get to how do we practice the perfection of wisdom on the path of seeing, which we'll start today. So recall that on the path of accumulation and the path of preparation, we're realizing emptiness conceptually. Through a mental image, right, using logical reasoning, right, Report an error in the passage at 1:22 Highlight the passage at 1:22

1:47 and on the path of preparation, right, to get to the path of preparation, right, we attained calm abiding, right, as well as special insight and the union of calm abiding and special insight so that we had this extremely powerful, stable mind that could realize emptiness, right, so it wouldn't. Get distracted to other objects. And so that's what we need is this incredible stable mind realizing emptiness in order to start eliminating the afflictions. Report an error in the passage at 1:47 Highlight the passage at 1:47

2:27 But on the path of preparation we're still realizing emptiness through a mental image, an image in our minds, and we're not seeing emptiness directly yet. Report an error in the passage at 2:27 Highlight the passage at 2:27

2:40 So over the course of the path of preparation, That mental image is slowly starting to dissipate. And when we actually realize emptiness directly for the first time, we enter the path of seeing. Report an error in the passage at 2:40 Highlight the passage at 2:40

3:01 And it's only when we enter the path of seeing, when we realize emptiness directly, that we start eliminating the seeds of our afflictions. So that means the potential for Ignorance, attachment, anger, jealousy, pride to arise. Before that point, we can suppress the afflictions, but we can't eliminate the potential for them to arise again. Report an error in the passage at 3:01 Highlight the passage at 3:01

3:30 In particular, when causes and conditions come together, then the afflictions can arise. But once we realize the emptiness directly, then we start eliminating the Even the potential for the afflictions to arise. Report an error in the passage at 3:30 Highlight the passage at 3:30

3:53 So the first direct realization of emptiness, we enter the path of seeing and we abandon what's called the acquired obstructions. So there are obstructions, so the afflictions. In general, there are two different types of obstructions. There are the afflictive obstructions and the knowledge obstructions or the obstructions to omniscience. Report an error in the passage at 3:53 Highlight the passage at 3:53

4:19 So the afflictive obstructions are basically the mental afflictions. The anger, the attachment, the ignorance, etc. Report an error in the passage at 4:19 Highlight the passage at 4:19

4:34 So on the path of seeing we start eliminating the afflictive obstructions. We start abandoning the afflictions. But only start. So the afflictive obstructions are further divided into two. The acquired. Report an error in the passage at 4:34 Highlight the passage at 4:34

4:56 And the innate. The acquired and the innate. So the acquired afflictive obstructions are those afflictions that arise due to learning mistaken philosophies. So we've learned a mistaken philosophy in this life or a previous life. And so that's an acquired affliction. You know, maybe in school we learn. Report an error in the passage at 4:56 Highlight the passage at 4:56

5:27 Or in society we learn that there's an eternal soul or something, you know, a soul that never changes something. So when we see emptiness directly for the first time, we eliminate the acquired afflictions, the afflictions that result from mistaken ways of learning. Report an error in the passage at 5:27 Highlight the passage at 5:27

6:00 But then there are also innate afflictions, the ones that we've had forever since beginningless time that are very instinctual, that aren't based on mistaken ways of learning, but they have been with us since beginningless time. And those we don't abandon on the path of seeing. We don't start abandoning those until the path of meditation. So the first direct realization of emptiness is... Report an error in the passage at 6:00 Highlight the passage at 6:00

6:32 Extremely powerful and it like forever changes our reality, but it's only powerful enough to eliminate the acquired obstructions. And what we need to do over time is to familiarize ourselves with that direct realization of emptiness again and again and again, Report an error in the passage at 6:32 Highlight the passage at 6:32

6:54 which is why there's a path of meditation, right? It's not that we directly realize emptiness and then we're liberated, which would be nice, right? Report an error in the passage at 6:54 Highlight the passage at 6:54

7:06 We went through these five paths before in a previous class and we talked about how there's three great countless eons worth of merit that we need to accumulate to attain Buddhahood. So the first great countless eon of merit is accumulated on the paths of accumulation and the path of preparation. The second great countless eon of merit is accumulated on the path of seeing, And really the first eight bodhisattva grounds, which is the path of seeing and most of the path of preparation. And then the last great countless eon of merit is accumulated on the eighth, ninth and tenth bodhisattva grounds. Report an error in the passage at 7:06 Highlight the passage at 7:06

7:56 So still, once we've realized emptiness directly for the first time, we still have two great countless eons worth of merit to accumulate. Which doesn't mean it's going to take that much time. But that's how much merit we still need to accumulate, right? So it's not as if the job is done at that point, but it's a really good start, right? Report an error in the passage at 7:56 Highlight the passage at 7:56

8:20 You cease being an ordinary being at that point and you become an aria. Report an error in the passage at 8:20 Highlight the passage at 8:20

8:27 And you'll never believe in the mistaken appearances after that, right? So everything will still appear as if it exists from its own side, but we won't believe in it anymore. At that point, you know, it's like, you know, it's like looking in a mirror and your reflection, you know, appears back in the mirror. Report an error in the passage at 8:27 Highlight the passage at 8:27

8:51 You know, it looks as if our body is in the mirror, but we don't believe it, right? We don't believe that our body is out there, right? Report an error in the passage at 8:51 Highlight the passage at 8:51

9:10 Betty, sure. The thing about time, when you talk about the three great eons and stuff, I mean, when you get to maybe the path of seeing, it. That is it. That is Report an error in the passage at 9:10 Highlight the passage at 9:10

9:20 Directly realize emptiness. What happens to time? Does time, what happens to it? I mean, time for us in everyday life is like very long. My guess is that you can get past that. Can you? I mean, in terms of past, present and future all being at the same time? I really don't know, Betty. I don't know. I haven't heard, you know. That's a guess of the question. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 9:20 Highlight the passage at 9:20

9:53 Yeah, I haven't heard anything specific about how the perception of time changes when you directly realize emptiness. As a Buddha, I think it's very different. Report an error in the passage at 9:53 Highlight the passage at 9:53

10:05 But when you realize emptiness directly, I don't know how that changes. Report an error in the passage at 10:05 Highlight the passage at 10:05

10:13 I personally have a hard time getting my head around time and how the perception of that would change. That's my own kind of mental limitation. So I don't know. Geshe was coming back tonight. Report an error in the passage at 10:13 Highlight the passage at 10:13

10:40 But a bodhisattva on the first ground, their reality is so completely different from ours in so many different ways. I think I've talked to you before about the fact that the first ground bodhisattva... Attain the path of seeing you, attain the first bodhisattva ground, right, or first bodhisattva bhumi. So that bodhisattva is able to, right, it's said that, you know, even if somebody tortures your body, right, that bodhisattva doesn't even feel pain. Report an error in the passage at 10:40 Highlight the passage at 10:40

11:17 So it's an incredible realization, right? Their reality is completely different. And then that bodhisattva is able to manifest like a hundred different bodies and see, you know, the past and future for a hundred eons and, you know, some great powers. Report an error in the passage at 11:17 Highlight the passage at 11:17

11:45 And maybe walking through walls. Report an error in the passage at 11:45 Highlight the passage at 11:45

11:50 Somehow I knew that was coming. Right. Okay. But I think we have to wait until we get to the path of sync to really know it can be. Report an error in the passage at 11:50 Highlight the passage at 11:50

12:04 All right. All right. Report an error in the passage at 12:04 Highlight the passage at 12:04

12:12 So in the Heart Sūtra then it says, Shariputra, likewise all phenomena are emptiness, without characteristic, unproduced, unceased, stainless, not without stain, not deficient, not fulfilled. So these are the... This is the line that indicates how the bodhisattva practices on the path of seeing. So these are the eight aspects of emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 12:12 Highlight the passage at 12:12

12:47 So this is showing that the bodhisattva on the path of seeing is realizing that all phenomena without exception are empty of inherent existence. So when we're realizing emptiness conceptual, Report an error in the passage at 12:47 Highlight the passage at 12:47

13:07 Conceptually, we can still have areas in which we're still holding on to existing solidly out there from their own side. Sorry about the out there, from their own side. So in the heart structure, again and again, it's listing different bases of emptiness, right? So where we can get stuck. And thinking, oh well, okay, yeah, maybe forms don't exist from their own side, but Buddhahood, that exists from its own side, right? Report an error in the passage at 13:07 Highlight the passage at 13:07

13:44 That's not just merely labeled by the mind. Or karma, it seems like maybe karma would exist from its own side, right? Because that functions, right? Regardless of whether or not you believe it. So that must exist from its own side, right? No, you know, none of those things exist from their own side. So our minds need to... Report an error in the passage at 13:44 Highlight the passage at 13:44

14:07 To go to many different phenomena and do the analysis on many different phenomena. So these eight aspects of emptiness are specifying specific different bases of emptiness that are also empty of inherent existence. Report an error in the passage at 14:07 Highlight the passage at 14:07

14:26 So the first one, emptiness, is what we've talked about, the entity of the cup itself. The cup itself is empty of inherent existence. Report an error in the passage at 14:26 Highlight the passage at 14:26

14:38 That's what we've been talking about, emptiness. The second one, without characteristic. Conventionally, all phenomena have particular characteristics. This cup has characteristic of being green, of being impermanent, of being, let's say, Report an error in the passage at 14:38 Highlight the passage at 14:38

15:06 yeah, I'm kind of hesitant to say that. Right. But, you know, having the function of being able to hold water, right? So conventionally, all phenomena have characteristics. Report an error in the passage at 15:06 Highlight the passage at 15:06

15:21 But ultimately, they don't have characteristics, right? From their own side, from its own side. It's not green from its own side. It's not able to hold water from its own side. Report an error in the passage at 15:21 Highlight the passage at 15:21

15:41 It's not impermanent from its own side. Report an error in the passage at 15:41 Highlight the passage at 15:41

15:50 You know, and function, oftentimes I think we hang on to function as existing from its own side, right? It's, okay, cup doesn't, you know, oftentimes we think, okay, cup doesn't exist from its own side. But we can call it a cup because it functions as a cup from its own side, right? A lot of people think that, right? Report an error in the passage at 15:50 Highlight the passage at 15:50

16:15 But even the function is merely imputed by the mind, okay? The function isn't. Out here projecting its image to your mind. The function is something that the mind is just imputing. Report an error in the passage at 16:15 Highlight the passage at 16:15

16:41 Okay, so this second aspect of emptiness is reminding us that, okay, even the characteristics, the function, etc. doesn't exist from its own side. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 16:41 Highlight the passage at 16:41

17:00 The third one is unproduced. So... Impermanent phenomena are all produced. They're created. This cup was created from whatever materials it was created from. It came into existence at some point. So conventionally it was produced, but ultimately it wasn't produced. It wasn't produced from its own side. Even the production was merely imputed by the mind. Report an error in the passage at 17:00 Highlight the passage at 17:00

17:42 It's like if we make... You have a slab of clay and then you have the pottery wheel and you're forming it. So that whole process is the production of the cup, if you're making a cup. Report an error in the passage at 17:42 Highlight the passage at 17:42

18:02 But that production is merely imputed based on... A series of appearances, right? There's a series of appearances to the mind, right? Appearances to the eye consciousness, appearances to the body consciousness. Report an error in the passage at 18:02 Highlight the passage at 18:02

18:24 And then we impute that. We label that as production or creation. Okay, making sense so far? Report an error in the passage at 18:24 Highlight the passage at 18:24

18:41 Then unceased. So similarly, things go out of existence, right? They cease. If I drop the cup. And it breaks, then the cup goes out of existence. So it ceases, but it doesn't cease from its own side. It ceases conventionally, but not ultimately. Then similarly, stainless. So stains, for example, mental afflictions. Report an error in the passage at 18:41 Highlight the passage at 18:41

19:14 There are stains conventionally, there are mental afflictions conventionally, but not ultimately. Even anger, attachment, ignorance are just imputed by the mind. Report an error in the passage at 19:14 Highlight the passage at 19:14

19:31 Not without stain. So without stain is referring to like the pure paths, like the path directly realizing emptiness, for example. You know, the consciousness directly realizing emptiness is without stain. But even that doesn't exist ultimately. It doesn't exist inherently. It doesn't exist from its own side. Report an error in the passage at 19:31 Highlight the passage at 19:31

19:59 It's merely imputed by the mind. Report an error in the passage at 19:59 Highlight the passage at 19:59

20:10 And then not deficient and not fulfilled. Report an error in the passage at 20:10 Highlight the passage at 20:10

20:17 Other translations are no decrease and no increase. So phenomena do decrease, let's say, on the path. Our mental afflictions are hopefully decreasing. So conventionally, they decrease. But once again, not ultimately, not from their own side. And our qualities increase conventionally, but not ultimately. Not from their own side. Report an error in the passage at 20:17 Highlight the passage at 20:17

20:54 Okay. Report an error in the passage at 20:54 Highlight the passage at 20:54

20:58 Brown. Wait. Report an error in the passage at 20:58 Highlight the passage at 20:58

21:08 How does not without stain relate to the realization of emptiness? Somehow I didn't follow that. Stainless? Stainless is referring to... Like completely pure paths. That makes sense. Right. So a completely pure path. And remember path is technically a consciousness. It's a realizing consciousness. So like the direct realization of emptiness is a pure path. So even that pure path doesn't exist ultimately. Report an error in the passage at 21:08 Highlight the passage at 21:08

21:42 So it has stain. How did that? I don't know. Not without stain, what does that mean? Right, so remember this not, let's go back to the previous slide. So all phenomena are emptiness without characteristic, stainless, not without stain. So all phenomena, not Report an error in the passage at 21:42 Highlight the passage at 21:42

22:15 without stain. Report an error in the passage at 22:15 Highlight the passage at 22:15

22:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. characteristic. Stainless. Report an error in the passage at 22:20 Highlight the passage at 22:20

22:32 Why don't I read you, so Report an error in the passage at 22:32 Highlight the passage at 22:32

22:41 from one of the commentaries it's saying, well basically what I'm saying, so phenomena are without freedom from stain. So, I mean another translation is phenomena are not, phenomena are without freedom from stain. Okay, so there is freedom from stain conventionally. But there is not freedom from stain ultimately. So here it's saying, right, right, those double negatives are kind of always... Report an error in the passage at 22:41 Highlight the passage at 22:41

23:32 So phenomena ultimately are not free from stains. Conventionally they are, well can be, right? A direct realization of emptiness can be free from stain. But ultimately... Is not free from stains. Right, okay. So that's all it's trying to say. Right. Right. Report an error in the passage at 23:32 Highlight the passage at 23:32

24:06 Yeah. So the point here in all of these verses is that, right, nothing exists ultimately, right? Nothing exists from its own side. So that's what the not is referring to. Yeah. Okay. Right. So you can't take the two negatives and make it a positive. Report an error in the passage at 24:06 Highlight the passage at 24:06

24:36 Do you define stain again? Yeah. So stain in this context refers to, for example, our defilements or our mental afflictions, for example. So our anger, our attachment, our ignorance, pride, jealousy, etc. Report an error in the passage at 24:36 Highlight the passage at 24:36

25:00 Peter? Report an error in the passage at 25:00 Highlight the passage at 25:00

25:04 Could it also mean karmic stains? I think so. That's what I was thinking. I think so. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 25:04 Highlight the passage at 25:04

25:15 In the commentaries, it's not very specific about everything that each of these terms encompasses. But one of the examples was mental afflictions, but probably karmic stains would also be included. And obstructions to omniscience are also stains. Report an error in the passage at 25:15 Highlight the passage at 25:15

25:38 Anything keeping us in cyclic existence would probably be a stain. But that's my speculation. Report an error in the passage at 25:38 Highlight the passage at 25:38

25:51 Yeah, Biddy. What did you say about the double negative, the not without? Oh, so we can't say, we can't just, like if I say not, I'm not. Report an error in the passage at 25:51 Highlight the passage at 25:51

26:09 Why not just say stain? Right, right, right. So that's what I'm saying is phenomena, like it's not, like we can't say all phenomena are stained. That's not getting to the point. The point is that. The freedom from stains, you know that pure path, also doesn't exist ultimately. So it's not free from stain. Phenomena are not ultimately free from stain. Report an error in the passage at 26:09 Highlight the passage at 26:09

26:51 Phenomena are not ultimately stainless. Some phenomena are conventionally stainless, but not ultimately stainless. Report an error in the passage at 26:51 Highlight the passage at 26:51

27:14 Not without beauty, not without afflictions, not without stains is different than no afflictions. So it's a different concept entirely. It's a negative. We would have to say it that way. There would be no way to say it positively, effectively, that I can see. If you notice all of these are... I can see I mean it has that Report an error in the passage at 27:14 Highlight the passage at 27:14

27:45 Negatives, right? Well, emptiness is a negative, right? We talked about that, right? But all phenomena are without characteristic, right? So here we're saying all phenomena are ultimately without characteristic. They are conventionally with characteristic, but ultimately without characteristic. Phenomena are ultimately unproduced. Phenomena are ultimately unceased. Phenomena are ultimately not with stain. Report an error in the passage at 27:45 Highlight the passage at 27:45

28:18 And ultimately not without stain. Okay. The double negative always gets people. Yeah. Okay. Is that making sense? Or just... Report an error in the passage at 28:18 Highlight the passage at 28:18

28:37 No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, this is a small point in the overall scheme of things. No, but you just said not stainless. But it's... Report an error in the passage at 28:37 Highlight the passage at 28:37

28:53 Okay, wait, no, am I saying that? Whatever you said, it sounded like the same as the other one, but it's like, it's not stainless and not without stain, so it's not pure and not impure, essentially, I think. Report an error in the passage at 28:53 Highlight the passage at 28:53

29:19 Stainless would be pure, right? Kind of? Or no? Yeah, you know, maybe this translation where it says stainless, maybe a better translation would be all phenomena are not stained, right? Because it's trying to say phenomena are not ultimately stained and phenomena are not ultimately unstained either, right? Report an error in the passage at 29:19 Highlight the passage at 29:19

29:53 So maybe part of the confusion is the translation. maybe it's just Okay. But are people getting the point? Basically, it's just saying all of these different permutations do not exist ultimately. I was just going to add that. Isn't the whole point of this construct so that our minds don't create some kind of eternalism out of this process? Saying not stainless, not without stain. Report an error in the passage at 29:53 Highlight the passage at 29:53

30:25 I mean, our minds are always grasping at some kind of a permanent enlightenment or permanent. of And this is kind of cutting through that. Yeah. I wouldn't quite use the word permanent, but our mind is grasping at something existing. Something existing from its own side. Exactly. So this is cutting through that process because our mind skips. Oh, well, maybe this is permanent. Maybe this is eternal. Report an error in the passage at 30:25 Highlight the passage at 30:25

30:53 And this cuts through that whole thing by phrasing it the way they do. I mean, it seems kind of... But it seems like that's what they're trying to get at. Yeah. And it's working with our minds, right, and where we're getting stuck. Right. And I just wanted to make a distinction between permanent and existing from its own side. Because permanent, conventionally there are phenomena that are considered permanent in the sense of not changing from moment to moment. Report an error in the passage at 30:53 Highlight the passage at 30:53

31:22 Right. So emptiness is an example of a phenomena that's not. Changing from moment to moment, so it's considered permanent, but it doesn't exist from its own side. So there's a distinction between being permanent and existing from its own side. Report an error in the passage at 31:22 Highlight the passage at 31:22

31:43 So basically Report an error in the passage at 31:43 Highlight the passage at 31:43

31:50 these eight aspects of emptiness are ways of talking about the three doors of liberation. So have people been introduced to the three doors of liberation before? Okay. Yeah. All right. Report an error in the passage at 31:50 Highlight the passage at 31:50

32:08 So the three doors of liberation are basically just another way of saying that all phenomena are empty. So the emptiness of door of liberation is talking about the nature of phenomena itself being empty of inherent existence. Report an error in the passage at 32:08 Highlight the passage at 32:08

32:32 The signlessness door of liberation is talking about the causes of phenomena. Are also empty of inherent existence. So the cup itself is empty of inherent existence. And the causes of the cup are also empty of inherent existence. Report an error in the passage at 32:32 Highlight the passage at 32:32

32:51 And then the wishlessness door of liberation is talking about the results of phenomena being empty of inherent existence. So the results of the cup are also empty of inherent existence. So it's just another kind of mental exercise. Not just the phenomena itself is... Empty. But the causes of that phenomena and the results of that phenomena. Report an error in the passage at 32:51 Highlight the passage at 32:51

33:21 But the three doors are actually three ways of understanding emptiness. The same thing. Report an error in the passage at 33:21 Highlight the passage at 33:21

33:38 And then I'll just throw this up here. The commentaries talk about how the eight aspects of emptiness are subsumed into the three doors of liberation. Emptiness itself is subsumed into the emptiness door of liberation. And then without characteristic, unproduced, unceased, stainless, not without stain, are subsumed into the signlessness door of liberation, the causes also being empty. Report an error in the passage at 33:38 Highlight the passage at 33:38

34:10 And then not deficient and not fulfilled are referring to wishlessness, so the results of phenomena also being empty. Report an error in the passage at 34:10 Highlight the passage at 34:10

34:27 What I've heard is not wishing for inherently existent results. Report an error in the passage at 34:27 Highlight the passage at 34:27

34:36 That one's never quite clicked with me. Report an error in the passage at 34:36 Highlight the passage at 34:36

34:44 Okay, Report an error in the passage at 34:44 Highlight the passage at 34:44

34:51 so are people okay with how we practice on the path of seeing? Report an error in the passage at 34:51 Highlight the passage at 34:51

34:57 Okay, all right. Then how to practice the perfection of wisdom on the path of meditation, right? So on the path of seeing... We directly realized emptiness for the first time and we eliminated the acquired afflictions. But we still have the innate afflictions to eliminate. Report an error in the passage at 34:57 Highlight the passage at 34:57

35:20 So when our direct realization of emptiness is powerful enough to start eliminating the innate afflictions, then we enter the path of meditation. Report an error in the passage at 35:20 Highlight the passage at 35:20

35:37 So the path of seeing can last for... A long time. Or 20 minutes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there are apparently different assertions as to when the path of meditation starts. Because the direct realization of emptiness, the first one, is said to not last that long. You know, it might be. yeah, yeah, Report an error in the passage at 35:37 Highlight the passage at 35:37

36:07 20 minutes, half hour, an hour. I don't know. You hear different numbers, but I've never seen in scripture where it says how long it lasts. But it's not eons. It's a finite period of time. Then when you arise, then you practice the six perfections, etc. And so I think some people say that then you enter the path of meditation at that point. But I've never seen it in scripture, actually. Report an error in the passage at 36:07 Highlight the passage at 36:07

36:34 All of the sources I've ever seen. Say that you don't enter the path of meditation until your direct realization of emptiness starts to eliminate the innate afflictions. Report an error in the passage at 36:34 Highlight the passage at 36:34

36:52 And so path of meditation also sometimes called the path of familiarization. So you're familiarizing yourself with the realization of emptiness over time. And then gradually we're eliminating the more and more subtle obstructions. Report an error in the passage at 36:52 Highlight the passage at 36:52

37:13 And so they liken that to, you know, when you're washing clothes. You wash clothes and the coarsest stains get washed away first. And then if you keep washing and keep washing, then the more and more subtle stains get removed. Like the oil that's seeped into your, you know, pants. It takes a while to get that out. And so... Report an error in the passage at 37:13 Highlight the passage at 37:13

37:44 The obstructions are like that too. We can eliminate the coarsest ones first and then gradually eliminate the more subtle ones. Report an error in the passage at 37:44 Highlight the passage at 37:44

37:59 Okay, then the sūtra says, Shariputra, therefore in emptiness there is no form, no feeling, no discrimination, no compositional factors, no consciousness. Report an error in the passage at 37:59 Highlight the passage at 37:59

38:09 Okay, so this is talking about how when we're directly realizing emptiness on the path of meditation, no conventional phenomena appear. Conventional truth doesn't appear to a direct realization of emptiness of a bodhicitta at all. Only emptiness appears. So in the face of that direct realization of emptiness on the path of meditation, the five aggregates don't appear. Report an error in the passage at 38:09 Highlight the passage at 38:09

38:38 So no form, no feeling, no discrimination, no compositional factors and unconsciousness. Could I ask the emptiness of what? Because I thought emptiness always had an object of negation. So the emptiness of what is appearing? Yeah, I mean it's said that we're realizing the emptiness of all phenomena. So it's the emptiness of all phenomena that's appearing. Report an error in the passage at 38:38 Highlight the passage at 38:38

39:06 But remember emptiness is the lack of. So it's not as if all phenomena are appearing as well as their emptiness. It's just the lack of inherent existence of all phenomena appearing. Report an error in the passage at 39:06 Highlight the passage at 39:06

39:21 Plus I think it's hard for... Ordinary minds to really imagine what a direct realization of emptiness would entail. Like for me, it's impossible for me to imagine the difference between realizing emptiness through a mental image and realizing emptiness directly. I just don't get how that would be different. I trust that it would be different, but I can't imagine how experientially that's different. Report an error in the passage at 39:21 Highlight the passage at 39:21

39:51 Maybe you can, but I can't. Janet. Report an error in the passage at 39:51 Highlight the passage at 39:51

40:00 It seems like when we talk about this, the confusion comes in because we're still using the word appearing. And there's no appearing, I think, either. It says they don't appear. Right. Conventional phenomena don't appear. Yeah. Right. So when you're doing the meditation to analyze, you know, looking for the self, Report an error in the passage at 40:00 Highlight the passage at 40:00

40:32 You go here and there and down into the little molecules and then nothing appears. So if you say, well, nothing appears, then you're still kind of throwing a kink in it because you're talking about a consciousness or a sense consciousness where the sense consciousnesses, as you just said, aren't appearing. Report an error in the passage at 40:32 Highlight the passage at 40:32

40:56 I mean, they're not there. I don't know what the word is to use, but I think just because of our language, it makes it hard to understand it because it's indescribable. Report an error in the passage at 40:56 Highlight the passage at 40:56

41:17 Okay, I think I'm not quite getting your point about the word appearance. Right, so no conventional phenomena appear. Report an error in the passage at 41:17 Highlight the passage at 41:17

41:35 And so I'm not quite getting what the... Obstacle is around the word appear? Report an error in the passage at 41:35 Highlight the passage at 41:35

41:51 To me, what it says, the five aggregates don't appear in meditative ego poise, realizing emptiness. One of the five aggregates is consciousness, and there's eye consciousness, which things appear to, mental consciousness, which things appear to, but those aggregates do not appear, so then nothing can appear. Report an error in the passage at 41:51 Highlight the passage at 41:51

42:18 It's like our language confuses us, I think, in a way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 42:18 Highlight the passage at 42:18

42:30 I mean, it's said that emptiness appears. But it's not in a, right, what that looks like, you know. Right. So for a direct realization of emptiness, right, it's said that, like, there's no subject-object duality in terms of, right, there's not. Like a mind realizing emptiness. It's like water poured into water. The mind and emptiness merged. Report an error in the passage at 42:30 Highlight the passage at 42:30

43:04 So even the mind doesn't appear. But emptiness appears in what that really looks like. Report an error in the passage at 43:04 Highlight the passage at 43:04

43:19 I think we can't even discuss it without conventionality. Report an error in the passage at 43:19 Highlight the passage at 43:19

43:31 Was there another question? Report an error in the passage at 43:31 Highlight the passage at 43:31

43:40 Then it says no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue. No body, no mind, no visual form, no sound, no odor, no taste, no object of touch and no phenomenon. So here it's talking about the 12, what are they called, the 12 sources. The sense, so the 12 sources also don't appear to that meditative equipoise, realizing emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 43:40 Highlight the passage at 43:40

44:10 And the 12 sources are... The six sense powers and the six objects. So the sense powers are not the eye consciousness, the eye, right, the ear consciousness, etc. But the sense powers are said to empower us to see and hear and touch, etc. So the sense powers are said to be some, like the eye sense power is said to be some subtle form on your eyeball that empowers the eyeball thought. Report an error in the passage at 44:10 Highlight the passage at 44:10

44:44 Well, the eye consciousness to see. So the sense power is not the eyeball itself, right? Because we can have an eyeball but not necessarily see. Report an error in the passage at 44:44 Highlight the passage at 44:44

44:58 So if we have difficulty seeing, so according to the Dharma, there's damage to the eye sense power. Not the eyeball, but the eye sense power. Report an error in the passage at 44:58 Highlight the passage at 44:58

45:14 And not the eye consciousness. We still have an eye consciousness. We have that part of the mind that sees visual form or that's capable of seeing visual forms. Report an error in the passage at 45:14 Highlight the passage at 45:14

45:28 So in this context we're talking about the sixth sense powers that don't appear as well as the objects. So visual forms, sounds, odors, etc. also don't appear. Report an error in the passage at 45:28 Highlight the passage at 45:28

45:52 A lot of facts. And then next, the 18 constituents. There is no eye element and so on, up to no mind element and no mental consciousness element. Report an error in the passage at 45:52 Highlight the passage at 45:52

46:05 So the 18 constituents encompass all phenomena without exception. So it includes the 12 sources that we just talked about, the sense powers and the objects, as well as then the six consciousnesses, the eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose, etc. Report an error in the passage at 46:05 Highlight the passage at 46:05

46:25 Okay? So those also don't appear. Report an error in the passage at 46:25 Highlight the passage at 46:25

46:34 Then there is no ignorance, no extinction of ignorance and so on, up to and including no aging and death and no extinction of aging and death. So here we're talking about the 12 links of dependent origination also don't appear. Report an error in the passage at 46:34 Highlight the passage at 46:34

46:54 So then I wanted to get into the 12 links just a little bit. And I don't know if it's possible to get into them just a little bit. A little dangerous. is. Report an error in the passage at 46:54 Highlight the passage at 46:54

47:08 But here it talks about how there's no ignorance and no extinction of ignorance and no aging and death and no extinction of aging and death. Report an error in the passage at 47:08 Highlight the passage at 47:08

47:18 So shall we take a break before we get into these? Okay. Otherwise it might be a while. Okay. All right. We'll take a break. Report an error in the passage at 47:18 Highlight the passage at 47:18

47:49 Anything to distract us from the 12 links? Report an error in the passage at 47:49 Highlight the passage at 47:49

47:58 So, okay. So the 12. So I just, um... Maybe I'll try to go through them really quickly. Report an error in the passage at 47:58 Highlight the passage at 47:58

48:12 So there's the forward order of the 12 links. It's said that when we meditate on the 12 links, we meditate on the forward order of the 12 links, the reverse order of the 12 links, on the afflicted side as well as on the completely purified side. Right, um... Report an error in the passage at 48:12 Highlight the passage at 48:12

48:31 So we'll talk a little bit about what that means. So the first link is the ignorance grasping at inherent existence. So based on that ignorance, then we create karma. And the second link is talking about karma that projects us into a future rebirth. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 48:31 Highlight the passage at 48:31

48:52 Why we create karma? Report an error in the passage at 48:52 Highlight the passage at 48:52

49:04 So this is a complete karma. It's not just any karma that we create. It's a complete karma because only a complete karma is able to project a future rebirth. So if we, let's say, Report an error in the passage at 49:04 Highlight the passage at 49:04

49:27 step on an ant unintentionally and kill it, that's not a complete karma because we didn't do it. Intentionally. But if we kind of intentionally step on the ant, you know, recognize the ant, we don't regret it, then we're creating the karma for a future suffering rebirth. Report an error in the passage at 49:27 Highlight the passage at 49:27

49:57 So that's the second link. And it can be virtuous or non-virtuous, a karma. It could also be a pure act of generosity. That's projecting a future happy rebirth. Report an error in the passage at 49:57 Highlight the passage at 49:57

50:14 And then that karma is deposited on the consciousness. So every complete karma that we create, motivated by ignorance, is then deposited on the consciousness which can be nourished in the future to propel us into a particular rebirth. So we're constantly creating these and they're being deposited on the consciousness. Report an error in the passage at 50:14 Highlight the passage at 50:14

50:51 Then the next link is referring to the five aggregates at the time of conception or really when the consciousness enters the fertilized ovum. So that's the five aggregates then are created. Report an error in the passage at 50:51 Highlight the passage at 50:51

51:21 And then the six sources are the six sense powers that we're talking about. So we have the five aggregates at the time of conception and then gradually the sense powers are formed. So the mental sense power and the body sense power are formed immediately at conception and then the other sense powers are formed gradually. Report an error in the passage at 51:21 Highlight the passage at 51:21

51:48 Then based on the six sense powers, then there's contact. So contact is the coming together of... Three things. The consciousness, the sense power and the object. So when the consciousness, for example, an eye consciousness and the eye sense power and an object of attachment come together. A wonderful piece of carrot cake come together. Then there's a pleasant feeling. Report an error in the passage at 51:48 Highlight the passage at 51:48

52:26 That arises. So the feeling is the experience of pleasure, pain or neutral. So based on the contact, the coming together of these three things, then a specific feeling arises. Report an error in the passage at 52:26 Highlight the passage at 52:26

52:42 And based on that feeling, then craving and grasping can arise. So habitually for most of us, a pleasant feeling arises and then attachment. Then we become attached to it. Report an error in the passage at 52:42 Highlight the passage at 52:42

53:00 An unpleasant feeling arises and aversion comes up automatically without thinking about it. So craving and grasping are forms of attachment. Grasping being an increased level of attachment beyond craving. I've always been a bit fuzzy about the difference between craving and grasping. And one example that I read recently is that craving would be, for example, if you're a smoker and you quit smoking and you have the craving for cigarettes, and then grasping is an increase of that craving such that you head out the door and, you know, to go buy some cigarettes, right? Report an error in the passage at 53:00 Highlight the passage at 53:00

53:52 So it seems like it's like propelling an action. So that's one. Maybe way of thinking about the difference in the levels between craving and grasping. So craving and grasping are generally described as being, I mean, these two links are generally described as being at the time of death. So at the time of death, if we're craving and grasping, then we're nourishing a seed that we created back in the second link. Report an error in the passage at 53:52 Highlight the passage at 53:52

54:29 Nourishing a seed to propel us into a rebirth. So existence is the mental factor of intention just before birth. So we've nourished the seed and then that propels the birth and then aging and death. Report an error in the passage at 54:29 Highlight the passage at 54:29

54:55 So when we contemplate the 12 links, I mean that was like the world's fastest description of the 12 links. Report an error in the passage at 54:55 Highlight the passage at 54:55

55:07 Seven minutes. Report an error in the passage at 55:07 Highlight the passage at 55:07

55:15 So, right, so, I mean, actually this is extremely profound, right, and we could meditate on this for months. But so, so the forward order, you know, understanding that ignorance, right, based on ignorance we create karma. Report an error in the passage at 55:15 Highlight the passage at 55:15

55:37 You know, that's deposited on the consciousness, right? So that's showing the forward order of the afflicted side, which means basically how we keep creating causes to be reborn in cyclic existence. Report an error in the passage at 55:37 Highlight the passage at 55:37

55:54 And then when we meditate on it, also meditate on it in the reverse order if we want to understand, well, why do we die? You know, aging and death. Oh, well, that's because we're born, right? Why are we born? Because of existence. Why that? Because of grasping and craving, etc. So that's the forward and reverse order of the thoroughly afflicted side. Report an error in the passage at 55:54 Highlight the passage at 55:54

56:26 And then on the completely pure side, the forward order, then we understand, okay, if we eliminate or abandon ignorance, right? So then, based on that, then... We abandon the formation of karma, right? Or projecting karma. And based on that, then it won't be deposited in consciousness, etc. So we're understanding how we create the causes to get out of cyclic existence, right? By abandoning ignorance. So that would be the forward order. Report an error in the passage at 56:26 Highlight the passage at 56:26

57:04 And then the reverse order would be how do we abandon, or if we abandon, Report an error in the passage at 57:04 Highlight the passage at 57:04

57:14 blanked out. Report an error in the passage at 57:14 Highlight the passage at 57:14

57:25 Aging and death is abandoned by, Abandoning rebirth, and that's abandoned by abandoning existence, etc. So the reverse order. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 57:25 Highlight the passage at 57:25

57:40 Was that completely clear? Report an error in the passage at 57:40 Highlight the passage at 57:40

57:45 Okay. I'm always a little confused about this point. When we abandon our afflictions that cause rebirth, where do bodhisattva vows come into that, vowing to come back again and again until all sentient beings are liberated? Right. Yeah, so here we're talking about, right, so when bodhisattva hits the path of seeing, they're no longer creating what is called the projecting karma to be reborn in cyclic existence. Report an error in the passage at 57:45 Highlight the passage at 57:45

58:18 So, I mean, so no longer, and I'm not completely clear on if it's the bodhisattva on the first ground that's no longer, Report an error in the passage at 58:18 Highlight the passage at 58:18

58:37 Taking uncontrolled rebirth. I'm not sure if it's the first ground bodhisattva or if it's later on in the past, the eighth bodhisattva ground. But definitely by the eighth bodhisattva ground, you're no longer taking uncontrolled rebirth. But at that point, then you choose to come back. You're not taking rebirth due to karma and afflictions. You're choosing to take rebirth for the benefit of sentient pain. Report an error in the passage at 58:37 Highlight the passage at 58:37

59:10 That's very optimistic. ha, ha, ha, Report an error in the passage at 59:10 Highlight the passage at 59:10

59:11 Yeah, yeah. I think he may have some control. Report an error in the passage at 59:11 Highlight the passage at 59:11

59:26 So in this verse where it says there's no ignorance, no extinction of ignorance and so on, up to and including no aging and death and no extinction of aging and death is once again talking about how the twelve links. okay. Report an error in the passage at 59:26 Highlight the passage at 59:26

59:44 On the thoroughly afflicted side, as well as on the completely purified side, also don't appear to the meditative equipoise, realizing emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 59:44 Highlight the passage at 59:44

59:56 And Report an error in the passage at 59:56 Highlight the passage at 59:56

1:00:06 then finally, similarly, there's no suffering, origination, cessation and path. So also the Four Noble Truths. Even the Four Noble Truths don't appear to the meditative equipoise, realizing emptiness on the path of meditation. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:06 Highlight the passage at 1:00:06

1:00:25 So true sufferings, true origins, true cessations and true paths. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:25 Highlight the passage at 1:00:25

1:00:39 So true sufferings being things like the body, our body that's propelled by karma and afflictions is a true suffering. Our mental afflictions are true sufferings. Our environment is also a true suffering. Those are sufferings. The origin of suffering, the cause of suffering are karma and afflictions. Contaminated karma and mental afflictions. So karma that's motivated by afflictions. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:39 Highlight the passage at 1:00:39

1:01:19 And then true cessations. The cessation of suffering. And then true paths. True paths are, for example, the direct realization of emptiness. The paths that get us out of cyclic existence. So here, even... The direct realization of emptiness doesn't appear to the direct realization of emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:19 Highlight the passage at 1:01:19

1:02:00 It says the last bit on the path of meditation is there is no exalted wisdom, no attainment and also no non-attainment. So the exalted wisdom, for example, the direct realization of emptiness also doesn't appear. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:00 Highlight the passage at 1:02:00

1:02:20 The attainment of a direct realization of emptiness also doesn't appear. So when you're directly realizing emptiness, you don't think, I got it. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:20 Highlight the passage at 1:02:20

1:02:31 Yay, finally I got it. And then non-attainment also doesn't appear. And non-attainment, I read... Like three different interpretations of what non-attainment means in three different sources. So His Report an error in the passage at 1:02:31 Highlight the passage at 1:02:31

1:03:00 Holiness in his commentary of the Heart Sūtra says that even the negation itself is negated here. No non-attainment is saying even the non-appearance of these things also doesn't appear. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:00 Highlight the passage at 1:03:00

1:03:36 Another interpretation is that non-attainment refers to things that are to be abandoned, such as saṃsāra, afflictions, etc. So those also don't appear. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:36 Highlight the passage at 1:03:36

1:04:04 So are you up for an exercise? We'll actually do a meditation on emptiness after all of those facts. Okay, so we'll get a little bit of experience here. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:04 Highlight the passage at 1:04:04

1:04:27 So we'll just sit here for a Report an error in the passage at 1:04:27 Highlight the passage at 1:04:27

1:04:32 minute. And settle our minds. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:32 Highlight the passage at 1:04:32

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:05:37 Okay, so recall that the first step in meditating on emptiness is identifying the object of negation. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:37 Highlight the passage at 1:05:37

1:05:47 This is also said to be the hardest step to identify the correct object of negation. So Report an error in the passage at 1:05:47 Highlight the passage at 1:05:47

1:06:06 here let's get a strong sense of myself. I am sitting here. I Report an error in the passage at 1:06:06 Highlight the passage at 1:06:06

1:06:25 feel how that I arises. This solid eye sitting Report an error in the passage at 1:06:25 Highlight the passage at 1:06:25

1:06:36 here. This Report an error in the passage at 1:06:36 Highlight the passage at 1:06:36

1:06:42 eye that doesn't seem to be dependent on the Report an error in the passage at 1:06:42 Highlight the passage at 1:06:42

1:06:50 mind. It doesn't seem to be dependent on karma, Report an error in the passage at 1:06:50 Highlight the passage at 1:06:50

1:07:02 our mother and father, our teachers, et cetera. So this eye, and Report an error in the passage at 1:07:02 Highlight the passage at 1:07:02

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:08:04 maybe we'll also notice that this eye seems, that sitting here seems to be one solid thing, right? Not consisting of Many different parts, Report an error in the passage at 1:08:04 Highlight the passage at 1:08:04

1:08:22 many different atoms. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:22 Highlight the passage at 1:08:22

1:08:27 Seems to be one solid thing sitting here. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:27 Highlight the passage at 1:08:27

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:09:30 And maybe we'll also notice that this eye sitting here doesn't seem to be something that's changing from moment to moment. Seems Report an error in the passage at 1:09:30 Highlight the passage at 1:09:30

1:09:46 to be very constant and stable, unchanging. And Report an error in the passage at 1:09:46 Highlight the passage at 1:09:46

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:10:30 then let's search for that eye. Let's search among the parts of the body. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:30 Highlight the passage at 1:10:30

1:10:40 Starting from the top of our head is Report an error in the passage at 1:10:40 Highlight the passage at 1:10:40

1:10:48 that. The eye that's sitting here, the top of my head. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:48 Highlight the passage at 1:10:48

1:11:01 Is it the brain? That's the eye that's sitting here. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:01 Highlight the passage at 1:11:01

1:11:19 Is it the eyeballs? Report an error in the passage at 1:11:19 Highlight the passage at 1:11:19

1:11:24 Are those the eye that are sitting here? Report an error in the passage at 1:11:24 Highlight the passage at 1:11:24

1:11:37 So let's just slowly methodically go through all the different parts of the body and see if each of them are the eye. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:37 Highlight the passage at 1:11:37

1:11:53 Parts of the I, but are they the I itself? When Report an error in the passage at 1:11:53 Highlight the passage at 1:11:53

· · · silence, 3 minutes

1:15:21 we're ready to search the mind, Report an error in the passage at 1:15:21 Highlight the passage at 1:15:21

1:15:28 is this moment of mind the I that's sitting here? Or Report an error in the passage at 1:15:28 Highlight the passage at 1:15:28

1:15:36 this moment of mind? Report an error in the passage at 1:15:36 Highlight the passage at 1:15:36

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:16:54 Also search separate from the body and the mind. We take away the body and the mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:54 Highlight the passage at 1:16:54

1:17:06 Is there an I that's sitting here? Report an error in the passage at 1:17:06 Highlight the passage at 1:17:06

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:18:02 Or is it the collection of the body and or mind? The parts of the body and or mind? That's the eye that's sitting here. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:02 Highlight the passage at 1:18:02

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:18:45 Remember that if it's the collection of the parts, then if we piled up all of the pieces into a heap, Report an error in the passage at 1:18:45 Highlight the passage at 1:18:45

1:19:00 then that would be the eye. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:00 Highlight the passage at 1:19:00

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:19:48 And then if we come to a conclusion of not finding, Report an error in the passage at 1:19:48 Highlight the passage at 1:19:48

1:19:54 see if we can stay on that not finding, stabilize on that not finding. Any Report an error in the passage at 1:19:54 Highlight the passage at 1:19:54

· · · silence, 3 minutes

1:22:54 comments or questions on that? Report an error in the passage at 1:22:54 Highlight the passage at 1:22:54

1:23:01 So people are pretty clear in general how to meditate on emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:01 Highlight the passage at 1:23:01

1:23:09 Object of negation, is that getting any clearer? Report an error in the passage at 1:23:09 Highlight the passage at 1:23:09

1:23:33 So next week will be our final Heart Sūtra class. We'll zoom through the rest of the sūtra. And then we'll have an exam. So in February, we won't have any classes. There's going to be that series on disturbing emotions. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:33 Highlight the passage at 1:23:33

1:23:56 But if people would like to do study groups, you know, discussion groups, we can figure out a time to do them. So how many people might be interested in a study group? Okay. For me, I was thinking, in my schedule, during the week will be really difficult. So the weekends are better for me. Do weekends work for people? Right, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:56 Highlight the passage at 1:23:56

1:24:27 Saturday or Sunday? Which day is better? Report an error in the passage at 1:24:27 Highlight the passage at 1:24:27

1:24:41 Okay. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:41 Highlight the passage at 1:24:41

1:24:44 Sunday okay for people? Report an error in the passage at 1:24:44 Highlight the passage at 1:24:44

1:24:54 Well, we can decide. We can decide how long. So, I mean, I wouldn't want to do it at the same time Gishidapa is teaching. Right? So we could maybe do it on Sunday afternoon? Report an error in the passage at 1:24:54 Highlight the passage at 1:24:54

1:25:11 So it's not work for people? What? Of the study group or of the exam? The exam. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:11 Highlight the passage at 1:25:11

1:25:34 I can't explain but I can't remember. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:34 Highlight the passage at 1:25:34

1:25:39 Don't listen to a word he says. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:39 Highlight the passage at 1:25:39

1:25:47 So it's a series of short answers. I'll focus on the main important points and not, I think, all of the... I mean, during the study groups... MR. I just left my – Report an error in the passage at 1:25:47 Highlight the passage at 1:25:47

1:26:12 I tend to give a few pointers on good to know this, good to know that. In general, doing the homework helps. So it's a series of kind of short answers to questions, maybe some fill in the blank, true, false, multiple choice kinds of things. It's not something that you have to study for weeks. Maybe some of you have in the past. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:12 Highlight the passage at 1:26:12

1:26:46 All the subjects have been so different from each other. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:46 Highlight the passage at 1:26:46

1:26:53 In general, I would say use the homework as a guideline and then what we talk about in the study groups. We'll do Sunday afternoon. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:53 Highlight the passage at 1:26:53

1:27:16 The third Sunday of February, I won't be able to do it. The first two. can tentatively Why don't we plan on the first two Sundays and then in the next week we can check the schedule here and see. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:16 Highlight the passage at 1:27:16

1:27:36 I think that an hour and a half tops. Two hours I think is a bit long. So we could do hour to hour and a half. What time? Report an error in the passage at 1:27:36 Highlight the passage at 1:27:36

1:27:57 I was thinking two also. Two o 'clock? I it's about afternoons, sometimes like 12, Report an error in the passage at 1:27:57 Highlight the passage at 1:27:57

1:28:05 Okay, why don't we raise hands. How many people for 1.30? Report an error in the passage at 1:28:05 Highlight the passage at 1:28:05

1:28:15 How many? Okay, five people. How many people for 2 o 'clock? 1.30. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:15 Highlight the passage at 1:28:15

1:28:38 1.30 might be nice if people want to go to Geshe-la's teachings and not take a two-hour lunch. So we'll plan on doing 1.30 and then we'll figure out if we can do it here or in the coffee shop or downstairs. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:38 Highlight the passage at 1:28:38

1:29:01 Yeah, we've done it in the coffee shop before. It's a bit more comfortable than doing it in here. But, you know, we can always move it if it's not good for people. Okay. So we'll plan on doing it the first two Sundays in February. And then we'll have the exam toward the end of February. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:01 Highlight the passage at 1:29:01

1:29:30 Let's dedicate the merit. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:30 Highlight the passage at 1:29:30