Basic Program - Buddhism From A-Z (26 June 2009)

0:05 like a forest, basically, with a bunch of cabins in it that have been used as placeable conferences. So it was in the woods. Yeah, yeah, it was great. So it was a multi-day conference? Yeah, it was four days. Thank you very much. Oh, well, that sounded Yeah. I know, I know. Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, there was a lot going on. Report an error in the passage at 0:05 Highlight the passage at 0:05

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3:11 I'll start with a few minutes of meditation. Just meditating silently on a breath, trying to stay in the present moment, trying not to get lost in our thoughts, and Report an error in the passage at 3:11 Highlight the passage at 3:11

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4:56 then taking a minute to set our motivation for tonight, thinking about why we're here. And Report an error in the passage at 4:56 Highlight the passage at 4:56

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6:08 we'll start with the Praise to Mundusri on page 84. Report an error in the passage at 6:08 Highlight the passage at 6:08

6:43 Obeisance to my guru and protector, Manjushri, who holds to his heart a scriptural text, symbolic of his seeing all things as they are, whose understanding shines forth as the sun, unclouded by defilements or traces of ignorance, who teaches in sixty ways with a patient love of a father for his only son, all creatures caught in the prison of saṃsāra, confused in the darkness of their ignorance, overwhelmed by their suffering. Report an error in the passage at 6:43 Highlight the passage at 6:43

7:09 You whose dragon thunder proclamation of the Dharma arouses us from the stupor of our delusions and frees us from the iron chains of our karma, whose powerful sword of wisdom hues down suffering wherever its sprouts appear, clearing away the darkness of all ignorance, whose princely body is adorned with 112 marks of a Buddha, who has completed the ten stages achieving the highest perfection of a bodhisattva, who has been pure from the beginning. Report an error in the passage at 7:09 Highlight the passage at 7:09

7:37 O Manjushri, all loving one, with the brilliance of your wisdom, illuminate the darkness in closing my mind. Enlighten my intelligence and wisdom so that I may gain insight into Buddha's words and the texts that explain them. Report an error in the passage at 7:37 Highlight the passage at 7:37

7:53 Refuge in bodhicitta on the bottom of 88. Report an error in the passage at 7:53 Highlight the passage at 7:53

8:05 I go for refuge until I am enlightened to the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. I go for refuge until I am enlightened. To the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. Report an error in the passage at 8:05 Highlight the passage at 8:05

8:31 I go for refuge until I am enlightened. To the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. We've Report an error in the passage at 8:31 Highlight the passage at 8:31

8:52 been talking about the ten non-virtues. Report an error in the passage at 8:52 Highlight the passage at 8:52

8:57 We're talking about karma, Report an error in the passage at 8:57 Highlight the passage at 8:57

9:07 the ten non-virtues. So the three of body, the four of speech, and the three of mind. So far we've covered killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, and lying. Report an error in the passage at 9:07 Highlight the passage at 9:07

9:25 And then recalling that there are these four branches, and if these four branches are complete for a particular action, then it becomes a complete action which propels you into a particular type of rebirth. So for the negative actions, if they're complete actions, then it propels you to a rebirth in the lower realms. Report an error in the passage at 9:25 Highlight the passage at 9:25

9:48 If it's a negative action, it's not complete. If it's missing any of the four factors, then it won't throw you into a lower rebirth, but it will cause suffering in a future life as a human or something. Report an error in the passage at 9:48 Highlight the passage at 9:48

10:08 So that's the significance of going through the four branches. So if we ever wonder if what we've created was a complete negative action. All we have to do is go through each of the branches and see, okay, well, are those all complete? Okay, so we covered killing, stealing, sexual misconduct. Report an error in the passage at 10:08 Highlight the passage at 10:08

10:38 So recalling that for a lie to be complete, the other person needs to understand the meaning. So if we're telling an untruth but the other person doesn't understand. Then it's not a complete action of lying. And also another important point of lying is you don't have to actually say anything to lie. You just need to be misleading someone. And you can do it with a facial gesture or any kind of gesture or even not saying anything when you know somebody believes something that's not true but not saying anything. Report an error in the passage at 10:38 Highlight the passage at 10:38

11:30 So, for example, if we, let's say, neglect to... Report some income on our income tax. Is it a lie? Well, if you deliberately omit some income on our income tax. Report an error in the passage at 11:30 Highlight the passage at 11:30

11:54 So the basis is complete, right? It's something that's seen her discerned by the nose, tongue, or body, or become fully aware of by the mind, right? So the income, right? If we know about it, right, so that basis is complete. The other person needs to understand the meaning so the IRS will understand what it means to, you know, not see income. Report an error in the passage at 11:54 Highlight the passage at 11:54

12:29 So the perception would be to try to alter or distort a perception, right, so that would be true. The affliction, the mental affliction, what would the mental affliction be? Report an error in the passage at 12:29 Highlight the passage at 12:29

12:46 Yeah, maybe attachment to our money. And the motivation, the wish to say something, changing the discrimination someone has of something. Report an error in the passage at 12:46 Highlight the passage at 12:46

12:56 All right, we're telling a falsehood and misrepresenting the truth. Report an error in the passage at 12:56 Highlight the passage at 12:56

13:05 Performance, indicating something by saying it or by making sure not to say anything through body language. So the performance is complete. It Report an error in the passage at 13:05 Highlight the passage at 13:05

13:30 looks like it's complete. Report an error in the passage at 13:30 Highlight the passage at 13:30

13:34 Any questions online? Report an error in the passage at 13:34 Highlight the passage at 13:34

13:43 So the order of these four non-virtues goes to the three non-virtues of body. These are in the order of the most serious to the least serious. So killing is the most serious, obviously, then stealing, and then sexual misconduct, karmically. And speech the same. Lying is the most serious of the four of speech. Lying and then divisive speech and then harsh speech and then sense of speech or idle gossip. Report an error in the passage at 13:43 Highlight the passage at 13:43

14:24 Does every complete karmic path cause an unfortunate rebirth? It plants a seed to have an unfortunate rebirth, which later on at the time of death gets nourished. You know, with craving and grasping, which will propel us into the lower rebirth. So there's the seed that's created by the complete karma, and it just needs to be nourished at the time of death, complete the causes. Report an error in the passage at 14:24 Highlight the passage at 14:24

15:01 So we're creating these actually, maybe even frequently. Report an error in the passage at 15:01 Highlight the passage at 15:01

15:12 It just seems like the number of karmic paths would vastly outnumber the number of rebirths, because in one lifetime you might perform a million, Or more, you know, complete karmic paths of a negative sort. And in every life you might do that. And the same with the good ones, you know, which I would think would indicate a good rebirth. Report an error in the passage at 15:12 Highlight the passage at 15:12

15:38 The number is inconceivable in a way. Report an error in the passage at 15:38 Highlight the passage at 15:38

15:44 Yeah, so it's hard to know what's actually going to ripen at the time of death, right? Because there are these countless imprints, right, that are actually Report an error in the passage at 15:44 Highlight the passage at 15:44

15:57 ripened at the time. We'll actually get into that a bit. Report an error in the passage at 15:57 Highlight the passage at 15:57

16:11 But then, of course, it's good to purify them. If we purify them, then we have fewer to worry about. Report an error in the passage at 16:11 Highlight the passage at 16:11

16:22 So why do you think lying is more serious than divisive speech versus harsh speech versus sense of speech? Report an error in the passage at 16:22 Highlight the passage at 16:22

16:52 Yeah, yeah, please. Report an error in the passage at 16:52 Highlight the passage at 16:52

16:57 I was just thinking that maybe it's because it deprives somebody of the opportunity to know the truth about something, whereas divisive speech... Report an error in the passage at 16:57 Highlight the passage at 16:57

17:08 The truth hasn't been compromised. People are just being influenced by you to have different opinions. I mean, I don't know exactly why that would make it worse per se, but it does seem... Well, it seems worse somehow for somebody to just not have access to the truth. I don't know if I could cash that out much more than that. Report an error in the passage at 17:08 Highlight the passage at 17:08

17:54 When somebody says something to us, we generally assume that they're telling the truth. That's kind of the baseline when we're communicating. If I go to an auto mechanic and they tell me, you need new brakes, I assume that I need new brakes. There's a trust there. Then I give them a bunch of money. Report an error in the passage at 17:54 Highlight the passage at 17:54

18:25 They replaced my brakes. If they lied about that, you know, here I was, you know, I had put my trust in them, and that trust is very much undermined. Report an error in the passage at 18:25 Highlight the passage at 18:25

18:35 If a doctor lies to us and says, you have cancer, I mean, just imagine how much suffering there is, right? If based on just that one lie, you know, you totally believe them and then you suffer so much. Report an error in the passage at 18:35 Highlight the passage at 18:35

18:51 And then if you find out that it's not true, right, we're totally astonished, right? Like, why would someone lie about something like that? So lying can destroy really large parts of people's lives because you're just assuming that people are telling you the truth. And in relationships, it Report an error in the passage at 18:51 Highlight the passage at 18:51

19:17 really destroys the foundation of trust. So lying can be very serious. I mean, we're not just talking about how much you ate for dinner or something, but lying about something very important where someone has faith. Faith in you and trust in you. Report an error in the passage at 19:17 Highlight the passage at 19:17

19:45 I was thinking that lying and also divisive speech has a lot of very strong intent behind that. Because you can say harsh words or offensive speech is kind of, you know, spur of the moment, just comes out. Or, of course, senseless speech, that's what it's all about. But lying, there's a real motivation or intent behind that to manipulate or persuade. Report an error in the passage at 19:45 Highlight the passage at 19:45

20:12 Divisive speech is somewhat like that too. There's a strong intent to mislead. Report an error in the passage at 20:12 Highlight the passage at 20:12

20:23 But is that true always? Report an error in the passage at 20:23 Highlight the passage at 20:23

20:28 Always true. Is there, like with lying, do we lie sometimes without a strong intention? Report an error in the passage at 20:28 Highlight the passage at 20:28

20:43 And it doesn't even have to be conscious. It Report an error in the passage at 20:43 Highlight the passage at 20:43

20:49 can be a good motivation. Report an error in the passage at 20:49 Highlight the passage at 20:49

20:55 Like a surprise birthday party. Report an error in the passage at 20:55 Highlight the passage at 20:55

21:00 Or, you know, you feel that somehow by lying to somebody you're going to... Help somebody more. Something to be careful about. Report an error in the passage at 21:00 Highlight the passage at 21:00

21:17 So lying being worse than the other three, it's really kind of specifying more serious lies, like the kind that you were mentioning, like giving somebody a false diagnosis, something like that. It's not so much like white lies, I guess. I mean, I can't say, right? I would just be speculating. Sure. But just in general, you know, lying is listed first because it's more serious. Yeah, I mean, it seems like once you start to, like, really parse out all the different details, then it's, like, hard to say. Report an error in the passage at 21:17 Highlight the passage at 21:17

21:59 But in general, lying is worse. Yeah. Misrepresenting the truth. You're misrepresenting something that you're Report an error in the passage at 21:59 Highlight the passage at 21:59

22:12 deliberately deceiving somebody. Report an error in the passage at 22:12 Highlight the passage at 22:12

22:20 Whereas divisive speech, you know, it might just be at this person and you want to say something bad about them. It could be more spur of the moment, but actually we're going to get into divisive speech. Report an error in the passage at 22:20 Highlight the passage at 22:20

22:48 So divisive speech, the basis of divisive speech are sentient beings who are in agreement or in disagreement with each other. So divisive speech is about two or more sentient beings. Either they're in harmony or they're in conflict. It doesn't matter. Either way, it could be divisive speech. The attitude, the three parts of attitude, the perception or discrimination. Lama Tsongkhapa says it's the same as for lying. Report an error in the passage at 22:48 Highlight the passage at 22:48

23:23 Geshe Loden says we just need a correct recognition of the parties involved in their relationship. So we're correctly identifying the people that are involved and know that they're in harmony or they're in conflict. Report an error in the passage at 23:23 Highlight the passage at 23:23

23:44 So it needs to be a correct perception. Report an error in the passage at 23:44 Highlight the passage at 23:44

23:50 The mental affliction can be any of the three poisons. So it could be attachment. You know, oftentimes it's attachment. I'm attached to this person. I'm attached to my friend. And I'm jealous of that friend being friends with this other person. And so I may say something to split them up. Report an error in the passage at 23:50 Highlight the passage at 23:50

24:12 Especially when I was in seventh grade. I remember doing that when I was in seventh grade. So it could be attachment, it could be jealousy, it could be anger, or it could just be ignorance. Report an error in the passage at 24:12 Highlight the passage at 24:12

24:28 And then the motivation is the wish to divide sentient beings who are in agreement and the wish that those in disagreement not to be reconciled. Report an error in the passage at 24:28 Highlight the passage at 24:28

24:40 To divide those who are harmonious and then... right. Report an error in the passage at 24:40 Highlight the passage at 24:40

24:45 To wish that those are not harmonious, not to be reconciled. Geshe Loden says that it's a state of mind in which you fully intend to cause disunity. Report an error in the passage at 24:45 Highlight the passage at 24:45

25:00 So we have to have the intention, like you were saying, we have for it to be a fully, a complete divisive speech. We have the intention to divide people. It's not that you say something... We all say things that don't really come out quite right sometimes, and sometimes that causes problems, but it only becomes a complete divisive speech if our motivation is actually to divide people. Report an error in the passage at 25:00 Highlight the passage at 25:00

25:32 If we accidentally say something without any negative intention, it's not a full divisive speech. So we fully intend to cause disunity. Report an error in the passage at 25:32 Highlight the passage at 25:32

25:48 And then the performance is expressing either pleasant or unpleasant subject matter with either true or untrue words and to say them for either one's own or other's purpose. Report an error in the passage at 25:48 Highlight the passage at 25:48

26:02 So it doesn't matter if what we say is true or false. If we don't like someone and we're telling the truth, it doesn't matter if it causes disunity, if we intend to cause disunity and it's true. Report an error in the passage at 26:02 Highlight the passage at 26:02

26:19 It's still divisive speech. Sometimes people say, oh, but it's true. I'm just being honest, innocently. But if the intention is to create conflict, then it's divisive speech. It doesn't matter if it's pleasant or unpleasant. So sometimes we can use sweet words. To disguise our negative intention, right? So it doesn't matter if it's pleasant or not. It doesn't matter how it's said, but if the intention is to divide people, then it's divisive speech. Report an error in the passage at 26:19 Highlight the passage at 26:19

27:02 And it doesn't matter if you're doing it for yourself or for somebody else. Report an error in the passage at 27:02 Highlight the passage at 27:02

27:10 And then to complete the divisive speech, the completion consists in the divisive words expressed to be understood. So once again, what makes it complete is... Report an error in the passage at 27:10 Highlight the passage at 27:10

27:23 That person understanding what's been said. Report an error in the passage at 27:23 Highlight the passage at 27:23

27:29 If you intend to cause disunity and it doesn't work, it's still a complete divisive speech if they've understood. Report an error in the passage at 27:29 Highlight the passage at 27:29

27:51 This is an interesting one. Let's say a friend of ours is complaining about their spouse. That person understanding what's been said. Report an error in the passage at 27:51 Highlight the passage at 27:51

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28:03 What happens if we agree with them? Then that reinforces this disharmony. So is that a divisive speech? Report an error in the passage at 28:03 Highlight the passage at 28:03

28:28 It's going to reinforce disunity, it seems like it would be. If you say, yeah, he's such a jerk, then I agree. You should leave him. He's such a jerk. reinforce this year. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 28:28 Highlight the passage at 28:28

28:42 that's um... It looks pretty much like divisive speech, right? Report an error in the passage at 28:42 Highlight the passage at 28:42

28:59 It's an interesting question. I mean, I've been thinking about this one too. You know, what if you Report an error in the passage at 28:59 Highlight the passage at 28:59

29:09 are, let's say there's a couple you know and you know your friend, you think she's being treated badly. they should leave it. They're just bad. Report an error in the passage at 29:09 Highlight the passage at 29:09

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29:30 Ignorance or amnification might be attachment to your friend and aversion to your friend's dislike for your friend's mate. But if they agree with you? Well, and actually it doesn't even matter. They don't even have to agree with you, right? Because all we have to do is intend to divide people. Report an error in the passage at 29:30 Highlight the passage at 29:30

30:08 I mean, it's an interesting one to explore. I don't have the answers, but it's interesting because this is a very common thing that we do, right? Especially girlfriends. I mean, I don't know if guys do that. I mean, guys do that maybe some too. I was just wondering if they do agree with you and the other person gets more angry, then I would think the karma would be a little even heavier. Report an error in the passage at 30:08 Highlight the passage at 30:08

30:30 Uh-huh. Yeah, if you're feeding their anger. Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 30:30 Highlight the passage at 30:30

30:38 because Report an error in the passage at 30:38 Highlight the passage at 30:38

30:43 the result is... Yeah, I mean, you're feeding their mental affliction, right? That's definitely not a happiness producer. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 30:43 Highlight the passage at 30:43

30:56 So this is interesting. You know, divisive speech is said to be more serious than harsh speech. Not a serious line, but more serious than harsh speech. So there's something about dividing people. decline in the voice of the Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 30:56 Highlight the passage at 30:56

31:12 Or intending to divide people. That's very serious. It creates a lot of suffering. If somebody tries to split up a friendship, that really causes a lot of suffering for both parties. Report an error in the passage at 31:12 Highlight the passage at 31:12

31:29 And at the time of the Buddha, the Devadatta tried to split up the Buddha Saṅgha. And they're said to be five actions of immediate retribution, which are like the five worst actions. These five actions that cause you definitely to have a rebirth in the next life in hell. These five actions. And one of them is creating disunity in the Saṅgha. There's killing your father, killing your mother, drawing blood from a Buddha, killing a foe destroyer, all these killings, and then causing disunity is the other one. Report an error in the passage at 31:29 Highlight the passage at 31:29

32:13 So it's very interesting. Well, causing disunity in the Saṅgha, in the Buddha Saṅgha. So that's a very specific one, but this causing disunity is extremely serious. So that's something to really contemplate. Why is that so serious? Report an error in the passage at 32:13 Highlight the passage at 32:13

32:35 Like in Dharma centers, if we live in Dharma centers, it's a scary thing, right? It's an easy thing, right? To say something bad or to complain about somebody or cause two people to not get along. You know, that's not... It's one of the five actions of immediate retribution because technically for it to be one of those five it needed to be at the time of Shakyamuni Buddha. But it's the same kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 32:35 Highlight the passage at 32:35

33:06 Were they speaking specifically of the Arya Saṅgha? I Report an error in the passage at 33:06 Highlight the passage at 33:06

33:15 haven't heard that. I think I've only heard that it was specifically the Saṅgha at the time of Shakyamuni Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 33:15 Highlight the passage at 33:15

33:27 I would think that anything like that Despite Dharma centers, of course, there's a huge potential for violence out of those types of situations when you divide people. I mean, we see that in our world, like countries. Report an error in the passage at 33:27 Highlight the passage at 33:27

33:40 Well, I mean, that's what wars are all about, right? Us and them. We're the good guys and those guys are the bad guys. Yeah. I mean, there's the violence, but I think it goes much deeper than that. It's that whole us versus them, right? The whole... Dharma is really about helping others, loving all beings, bringing beings together and all of that. And then divisive speech is the opposite of that, right? Report an error in the passage at 33:40 Highlight the passage at 33:40

34:11 It's separating people based on opinions or attachment to views, opinions, what I want. It's all kind of selfishly based. We're dividing people instead of brain. It's interesting to think about. Report an error in the passage at 34:11 Highlight the passage at 34:11

34:31 I feel like very much along those lines, it seems like to divide people is somewhat, well, just not in the spirit of the Buddhist view of interconnectedness on more of a deep metaphysical level, where people are perhaps no more connected to their own future self than they are to other people. and and to to Report an error in the passage at 34:31 Highlight the passage at 34:31

35:04 Supporting people's dividing away from one another would kind of reinforce notions of individuality, kind of reinforce people's separateness, separate distinct selves rather than people that are really deeply interconnected and need to work to foster a recognition of that. So Report an error in the passage at 35:04 Highlight the passage at 35:04

35:31 on the method side as well as the wisdom side, the wisdom side, we're all interconnected, interdependent. On the Method side, we're trying to get enlightened for the benefit of all beings. The basis of that is equanimity, seeing all beings as beings. Just wanting to be happy and trying to bring happiness to all beings. Not just the beings who are nice to me, not just the ones that do what I want or agree with me or have the same philosophy as me, but all beings. Report an error in the passage at 35:31 Highlight the passage at 35:31

36:07 so, um... So when we really get that, then divisive speech goes completely against that. Report an error in the passage at 36:07 Highlight the passage at 36:07

36:30 We have it in our family. My mother and her sister don't want to have anything to do with each other, and my mother doesn't want me to have anything to do with my aunt because she's upset with her, and they can't resolve their differences. Report an error in the passage at 36:30 Highlight the passage at 36:30

36:44 But I still am friends with my aunt anyways because I told my mother I'm not going to play that game. But I've tried several times to get them together. Report an error in the passage at 36:44 Highlight the passage at 36:44

36:54 They can't let go of things. It's just amazing how often that happens in families and how much suffering that creates. Like, oh, you can be friends with this person but not this person. You have to choose, like with divorces, you have to choose your mother or your father. Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 36:54 Highlight the passage at 36:54

37:20 it's very sad. And then when you get down to the root of what it's all about, sometimes they don't even remember. remember what it's about. Report an error in the passage at 37:20 Highlight the passage at 37:20

37:33 It's definitely one of the mental afflictions. I mean, I shouldn't laugh. It's a very big suffering. I mean, it's good that you try to bring them together. Our power is limited. Report an error in the passage at 37:33 Highlight the passage at 37:33

37:56 Anything else on divisive speech? I Report an error in the passage at 37:56 Highlight the passage at 37:56

38:05 was wondering if maybe it also has to do with the definition of disunity. Because, you know, when you go also to therapists and what have you, They'll oftentimes advise you maybe to get away from a person and that maybe you should not continue in that relationship. So I don't know if that would be disunity or, you know, trying to protect one party from the other. Report an error in the passage at 38:05 Highlight the passage at 38:05

38:37 I mean, there's also cases of, you know, domestic violence and what have you. So if you want to maybe separate that couple, it could be considered disunity. Maybe not. I don't know. Oh, it's an interesting question. Report an error in the passage at 38:37 Highlight the passage at 38:37

38:56 Because sometimes, right, I mean, there is the advice, you know, to stay distant from certain not Report an error in the passage at 38:56 Highlight the passage at 38:56

39:09 good influences. But that's different, I think, than disunity, right? You know, I mean, not spending a lot of time with someone versus causing people to have difficulties with each other, you know, mental afflictions toward each other. Report an error in the passage at 39:09 Highlight the passage at 39:09

39:26 It doesn't mean that we have to spend a lot of time with every being. It calls that noble distance. Noble distance, that's a good term. Report an error in the passage at 39:26 Highlight the passage at 39:26

39:43 So in general when the Buddha advised us to keep distance, like for example, if we're new Buddhists and we're trying to develop loving kindness for people and honesty and generosity and we have... Friends who are trying to influence us in a negative way, one of the pieces of advice is to take more distance from the negative, but not to have a negative attitude toward them, not to judge them, but to still have love and compassion in your heart. Report an error in the passage at 39:43 Highlight the passage at 39:43

40:24 So then I wouldn't call that disunity. I mean, that's just my own interpretation, but I wouldn't think that that would apply. Report an error in the passage at 40:24 Highlight the passage at 40:24

40:40 think that would save them and create more negative karma with each other. Report an error in the passage at 40:40 Highlight the passage at 40:40

40:52 But it does still cause pain, right? If we take distance from a friend of ours and they don't understand, you know, it causes them pain. So it's not, you know, get off scot-free, right, kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 40:52 Highlight the passage at 40:52

41:11 It's a higher benefit, right? Report an error in the passage at 41:11 Highlight the passage at 41:11

41:17 So we'll go on to harsh speech. The basis of harsh speech or harsh words is a sentient being who has become the basis for the arising of a hostile attitude. Or in other words, someone who is a source of hostility to you, a person you want to hurt by saying harsh words. The Report an error in the passage at 41:17 Highlight the passage at 41:17

41:40 attitude of the attitude, the perception is the same as for lying. I guess you'll learn correctly identifying the object to be insulted. Report an error in the passage at 41:40 Highlight the passage at 41:40

41:52 So if we mean to insult one person, but we accidentally insult another person instead. You know, it's still harsh speech, but it's not complete. Complete harsh speech. Report an error in the passage at 41:52 Highlight the passage at 41:52

42:11 That's an interesting one. You know, sometimes we're angry at one person and then we take it out on somebody else. The Report an error in the passage at 42:11 Highlight the passage at 42:11

42:25 mental affliction, once again, any of the three poisons. And then the motivation is the wish to speak with harsh speech. So once again, you know, having that intention to actually, you know, to want to just speak harshly. The Report an error in the passage at 42:25 Highlight the passage at 42:25

42:46 performance. To speak unpleasantly, either truthfully or falsely about the person's faults of extraction, body, ethical discipline or behavior. Report an error in the passage at 42:46 Highlight the passage at 42:46

43:02 Or Geshe-Loden says, speaking rudely, harshly, critically, abusively, cynically, insultingly or in any manner hurtful to others with a negative intention. Report an error in the passage at 43:02 Highlight the passage at 43:02

43:16 So it might be, you know, overtly rude or harsh or it might be... Like in a cynical way. And I think it could even be in a joking way. Sometimes people make jokes, insult you in a joking way. Report an error in the passage at 43:16 Highlight the passage at 43:16

43:38 And it's still harsh speech. Because the intention is to hurt you. Just disguised as a joke. I think that one's quite common. So this can be insulting someone based on their race or their color or their... personality or their you know anything Report an error in the passage at 43:38 Highlight the passage at 43:38

44:06 to complete the harsh speech in the one to whom it was said, understanding the meaning. So once again, relying divisive speech and harsh speech, what makes them complete is the other person understanding. Report an error in the passage at 44:06 Highlight the passage at 44:06

44:22 doesn't matter if the other person is insulted or not, if they just understand what was said, it's complete. Report an error in the passage at 44:22 Highlight the passage at 44:22

· · · silence, 1 minute

45:02 Once again, it doesn't matter if the harsh words are true or not. If we mean to insult someone, it doesn't matter. Report an error in the passage at 45:02 Highlight the passage at 45:02

45:29 So there's also these two opinions about what makes something complete or the harsh speech complete. So a Saṅgha says, by merely saying the words, when the words come from your mouth, then the action is complete. So just when you say the words, they don't even have to be understood. But then... Vasubandhu says the action is complete when the words are understood. So just two different opinions. Report an error in the passage at 45:29 Highlight the passage at 45:29

46:01 But either way, right, it's serious. Report an error in the passage at 46:01 Highlight the passage at 46:01

46:15 Senseless speech or idle talk. This is a really easy one to do. So the basis of idle talk is a meaningless topic or, Gishisopa says, meaningless or purposeless words. Report an error in the passage at 46:15 Highlight the passage at 46:15

46:35 So the perception... Here it is to talk, having discriminated the very topic one wishes to express as that, because for this there is no need for someone's understanding. Report an error in the passage at 46:35 Highlight the passage at 46:35

46:49 So Gishisopa says, all you need is a correct perception of what you want to say. It is not necessary to have in mind the specific person you are talking to. Report an error in the passage at 46:49 Highlight the passage at 46:49

46:59 So all you have to do is kind of know what you're saying, right? Just have a correct perception of what you're saying. Frequently they're not listening. Right, exactly. Report an error in the passage at 46:59 Highlight the passage at 46:59

47:16 And the affliction of any of the three poisons. The motivation, the wish to talk disconnectedly and randomly. Or Geshe Loden says, the desire to speak frivolously or carelessly, to say whatever happens to come into your mind without any significant meaning or purpose. This one hurt me the most. Report an error in the passage at 47:16 Highlight the passage at 47:16

47:38 had a lot of on that issue from people and I really thought it was problem. What do you mean? I thought there was nothing wrong with it and people should get over it. That was my belief until I got to booth Dharma. There was nothing wrong with it. And when I was here and I heard that the first time, I felt slapped. Oh my God, they were right. Report an error in the passage at 47:38 Highlight the passage at 47:38

48:01 Mm, mm-hmm. Report an error in the passage at 48:01 Highlight the passage at 48:01

48:05 you know. Report an error in the passage at 48:05 Highlight the passage at 48:05

48:09 Oh, interesting. Well, I mean, in this society, I mean, my impression in this society is this is perfectly accepted. You know, I mean, your viewpoint was the most common. No, I mean, just, you know, to just say whatever comes to your mind seems to be perfectly acceptable in this society. The word logorrhea, it's diarrhea of the mouth. Yeah. I mean, oftentimes it's, you know, a matter of... Report an error in the passage at 48:09 Highlight the passage at 48:09

48:40 You know, being afraid of silence, right? You know, it's better to say something, you know, whatever comes to your mind than to have a gap in the conversation or something. Report an error in the passage at 48:40 Highlight the passage at 48:40

48:52 But, you know, but on the spiritual path, you know, silence is considered ideal, right? I mean, and then you say something when you have something to say, you know, you have something actually meaningful to say, then you say something. Report an error in the passage at 48:52 Highlight the passage at 48:52

49:12 Talking a lot is, you know, it scatters the mind, right? In the spiritual path, we're trying to learn to control the mind, to focus the mind and to create more virtue with the mind. Whereas sense of speech, well, it's kind of moving the mind away from being able to focus and be clear about what's important. Report an error in the passage at 49:12 Highlight the passage at 49:12

49:43 So for our own sakes, it's useful to not just chatter. For no reason. But then for other people's sakes as well, right? Other people don't really want to hear you talk about nothing, right? For very long. Report an error in the passage at 49:43 Highlight the passage at 49:43

50:09 I don't know. I mean, it's Report an error in the passage at 50:09 Highlight the passage at 50:09

50:15 always interesting, you know, like sitting in an airport by yourself and overhearing conversations or in a restaurant or something and overhearing conversations. And there's really not a lot of... Report an error in the passage at 50:15 Highlight the passage at 50:15

50:27 I mean, oftentimes there's not a lot that's important being said, right? It's just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Report an error in the passage at 50:27 Highlight the passage at 50:27

50:38 And then you see like old married couples who aren't listening to each other, you know? Yeah, it's interesting. And one of the karmic results of senseless speech, like engaging in a lot of senseless speech, is that other people don't listen to what you have to say, right? And that kind of makes sense, right? If we don't... Report an error in the passage at 50:38 Highlight the passage at 50:38

51:02 If we don't try to use our speech well, and we just blah, blah, blah, then after a while people just tune out. Report an error in the passage at 51:02 Highlight the passage at 51:02

51:18 But then with the bodhisattva vows, it's interesting. It's like if we're on the Hinayana path and it was about my liberation, then you could just go around and not talk to people. Report an error in the passage at 51:18 Highlight the passage at 51:18

51:32 But then with bodhisattva vows, we're trying to help others. Sometimes we engage in talk for the benefit of others. So it's an interesting one to balance. Because sometimes we see on the path people being overly concerned with my spiritual path and not even trying to engage with others, not trying to contribute Report an error in the passage at 51:32 Highlight the passage at 51:32

52:07 to a conversation. And that can offend others, right, too. So there's an interesting balance, right? Report an error in the passage at 52:07 Highlight the passage at 52:07

52:21 I just wanted to follow up on what you said about it being so common in this culture. Because I think that creates problems for us wanting to avoid idol talk. Just this last weekend, some friends came to visit, one of whom I didn't know, and she was really quiet the whole time, basically didn't say hardly anything. Report an error in the passage at 52:21 Highlight the passage at 52:21

52:42 And almost everybody that we interacted with... She made a comment to me separately, like, oh, you know, does Carrie not talk? Like, what's wrong with her, you know? Like, so many people commented. So many more people commented, I think, than had she been, you know, borderline offensive in some way, you know? Report an error in the passage at 52:42 Highlight the passage at 52:42

52:59 Like, I feel like it draws so much attention to itself when people just don't talk very much. And so, and maybe that's fine, you know? Maybe, you know, she should just be perfectly comfortable with that and maybe we should aim to, you know, sort of be like that. Of course, it would be best if we could just... Report an error in the passage at 52:59 Highlight the passage at 52:59

53:15 Instead of being silent, engage in really meaningful conversation all the time. But, I mean, a lot of times that's not going to happen, especially depending on who you're hanging out with. I mean, maybe they just really don't talk about very interesting things very much. And maybe it would be very rude to just completely not engage at all, right? Report an error in the passage at 53:15 Highlight the passage at 53:15

53:34 Or maybe it would be perceived as being rude. Maybe they would be really concerned about you. Maybe that would be distressing to them. You know, so it's tough. I feel like this is a tough one. Report an error in the passage at 53:34 Highlight the passage at 53:34

53:44 Find your way through, you know, just how much kind of seemingly meaningless talk should you engage in? Report an error in the passage at 53:44 Highlight the passage at 53:44

53:54 It's a tricky one. I mean, I certainly don't have the answers. But I think it comes down to motivation. It comes down to motivation. You know, whether there's a mental affliction, right? If we're just trying to get people to like us, right? That's not a good motivation, right? But if it's actually genuinely to make others feel comfortable and feel... Report an error in the passage at 53:54 Highlight the passage at 53:54

54:15 you know, included, you know, then it's a I remember once hearing the story about Lama Yeshe, Report an error in the passage at 54:15 Highlight the passage at 54:15

54:28 they weren't Dharma people, friends of Dharma people. Lama Yeshe immediately started talking to them about food, good types of pasta, and they got really excited. So they had this long conversation about food and that opened their minds enough that then he could. talk to them about the Dharma, but that was just a really skillful way for him make that connection with the people and kind of create openness in them. Report an error in the passage at 54:28 Highlight the passage at 54:28

55:06 can give them, you know, the real stuff, I don't think, yeah, that's interesting. This is one that I struggle with, for sure, in my life. Report an error in the passage at 55:06 Highlight the passage at 55:06

55:21 blah, blah, blah, you know? Report an error in the passage at 55:21 Highlight the passage at 55:21

55:27 not today, or, you know, it's just dumb. Report an error in the passage at 55:27 Highlight the passage at 55:27

55:37 If you live with other people, you know, not to just shut yourself in your room, right? Report an error in the passage at 55:37 Highlight the passage at 55:37

55:53 So the actual performance of the idle talk is to actually speak the meaningless words. As soon as we speak the meaningless words, then we've done the action of idle speech or sense of speech. And the completion is to finish, to finish speaking. So if we never stop it. All right. Report an error in the passage at 55:53 Highlight the passage at 55:53

56:19 Well, that might be a technicality. Report an error in the passage at 56:19 Highlight the passage at 56:19

56:26 So another thing is, is here, we had said, right, at the basis, no, actually, with a perception, right, that nobody else has to understand, you know, so you could be talking to your dog, you Report an error in the passage at 56:26 Highlight the passage at 56:26

56:46 could be talking to yourself, and it's still a sense of speech, so you don't need, like, another person. So that's, like, this... One of the significant differences between idle speech and the algorithms you can talk to your television set. To your stupid computer that just crashed. Report an error in the passage at 56:46 Highlight the passage at 56:46

57:15 funny because I know when I'm engaging in this, I'll be talking to someone, and this happens a lot, like I'll be talking to Chick-fil-A, and she's not listening, and then when I'm done, it's just like, did you say? So then I have to, then I think, mind, unless it's worth repeating. Right. That's when I know for sure that I'm, like, just, I'll be lying. Report an error in the passage at 57:15 Highlight the passage at 57:15

57:38 I mean, we all do this, right? I mean, we all do this all the time. But it's good to be mindful of it. You know, particularly when the other person, like, what the other person's reaction is, you know, if they look bored or look like they're wanting to escape, then it's good to just stop. Report an error in the passage at 57:38 Highlight the passage at 57:38

58:06 If it's actually, you know, entertaining them or, you know, doing some good. Report an error in the passage at 58:06 Highlight the passage at 58:06

58:18 I remember when we were studying, you know, in Italy, you know, we were doing all of the serious studies, you know, we were in the classroom basically five hours a day, you know, either listening to teachings or discussing the teachings with other people. So at meal time, there was this, like, unwritten rule to not talk about the Dharma. Like, there was this need to just chill out. Report an error in the passage at 58:18 Highlight the passage at 58:18

58:46 and just talk meaningless things or, you know, to just laugh and So I think that type of thing is fine, right, you know, because that's what people need to just kind of relax, right, because if we're talking about something serious all the time, you know, when you're just needing to kind of, you know, take a holiday. Report an error in the passage at 58:46 Highlight the passage at 58:46

59:16 Go ahead. Because I remember there was one student who was really intense who would always, you know, try to ask you Dharma questions at dinner and he's just like, just leave me alone. You know, let it go. Ask me later. My brain is fried. So then, you know, we can become obnoxious with our, you know, trying to speak meaningful as well. Report an error in the passage at 59:16 Highlight the passage at 59:16

59:42 I mean, that's just my own kind of... Personal experience and opinion about these things. But we need to be, you know, skillful. Report an error in the passage at 59:42 Highlight the passage at 59:42

59:59 So does this order make sense? Lying, being the most serious, then divisive speech, then harsh speech, and then idle talk? Report an error in the passage at 59:59 Highlight the passage at 59:59

1:00:11 Serious? Report an error in the passage at 1:00:11 Highlight the passage at 1:00:11

1:00:21 Maybe, maybe not. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:21 Highlight the passage at 1:00:21

1:00:29 Pretty serious. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:29 Highlight the passage at 1:00:29

1:00:35 Sometimes it seems like harsh speech is more serious than divisive speech. But there's something about dividing people. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:35 Highlight the passage at 1:00:35

1:00:48 Harsh speech is verbal abuse, which is kind of like hitting someone, really. I mean, it can be just as hurtful or more hurtful sometimes. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:48 Highlight the passage at 1:00:48

1:01:03 We have this saying in this culture, you know, sticks and stones may break our bones, but words can never hurt me, right? That's what I say when we're kids. But apparently there's a Tibetan saying that goes something like, you know, sticks and stones can only hurt my... You know, my body. But words can break someone's heart. And that's more the truth, right? The words can really damage someone for life, even. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:03 Highlight the passage at 1:01:03

1:01:41 So it's important, right, to really watch what we say, not to say something that will hurt someone, right? Because they may remember it forever. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:41 Highlight the passage at 1:01:41

1:02:00 Like, kids can be really cruel, and, you know, sometimes we remember what people said to us. You're nine years old. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:00 Highlight the passage at 1:02:00

1:02:19 So then, the three non-virtues of mind. Covetousness, malice and wrong views. So this one, the order is interesting because the least serious is first. And then malice and wrong views is even the worst, is actually the worst. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:19 Highlight the passage at 1:02:19

1:02:43 Yeah, wrong view is the worst. And then malice is less and then covetousness. So it's interesting why they change the order of these. But this is the way it's presented. So covetousness being the least serious of the three in mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:43 Highlight the passage at 1:02:43

1:03:01 So the basis of covetousness is a possession or provision of somebody else. Something that somebody else owns. The wealth or property of others. And Gishalim says it can be material or even of a spiritual nature. So we can covet someone's... Some qualities, right? They covet their house and their car and their body or their brain, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:03:01 Highlight the passage at 1:03:01

1:03:32 Their intelligence. So it's not limited to material things. The Report an error in the passage at 1:03:32 Highlight the passage at 1:03:32

1:03:45 attitude, the perception of discrimination. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:45 Highlight the passage at 1:03:45

1:03:51 And Lama Tsongkhapa says the discrimination of that basis is that. Basically meaning to recognize correctly the object that you covet. So that's pretty self-explanatory. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:51 Highlight the passage at 1:03:51

1:04:04 The mental affliction, any of the three poisons. The motivation, the wish to make it one's own. The wish to possess the object that you covet. The desire to make it your own. So really wanting, really wanting it. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:04 Highlight the passage at 1:04:04

1:04:30 So it's not just liking it, right? I wish that was mine, you know? Instead of just like admiring. Oh, you know, admiring that person's house, but I wish that was mine. I Report an error in the passage at 1:04:30 Highlight the passage at 1:04:30

1:04:51 wish I had those qualities. Not just admiring His Holiness the Dalai Lama's qualities, but I wish those were Report an error in the passage at 1:04:51 Highlight the passage at 1:04:51

1:05:04 moments of the act. Consists in making an effort for the object of that thought. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:04 Highlight the passage at 1:05:04

1:05:13 So making an effort for that object. Actually making an effort to possess that thing. So it could even be something in the store. That we see, like, oh, you know, you see that flat screen TV, right? And then you go home and you think about it and you think about it. Oh, you Report an error in the passage at 1:05:13 Highlight the passage at 1:05:13

1:05:48 know, move some money around, you know, maybe unafforded or edit card, you know, you kind of plan, right? You keep fantasizing about this object and you plan. You start making an effort to acquire it, Report an error in the passage at 1:05:48 Highlight the passage at 1:05:48

1:06:07 performance, the action of covetousness. All right, so these, these, these... These actions of mind are more subtle, right? Because physically you don't have to do anything, but in your mind, like starting to plan it. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:07 Highlight the passage at 1:06:07

1:06:28 So Geshe Sopa says, the actual action occurs when you move from the mere motivation of wishing to possess the object to the actual endeavor to acquire it. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:28 Highlight the passage at 1:06:28

1:06:40 Geshe Loden says, generating a state of mind that wishes to possess the belongings of another. It manifests as a result of an increase in the strength of previous similar thoughts. All right, so this starts getting at the process of how, you know, we see something. It's like we see something, the flat screen TV in the store, and we think, oh, you know, that's really nice. And then we go home, and then we start fantasizing about it. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:40 Highlight the passage at 1:06:40

1:07:08 You know, thinking, Report an error in the passage at 1:07:08 Highlight the passage at 1:07:08

1:07:12 put that, you can watch all these movies and these sports or whatever it is that we're interested in. Just like... We start building the fantasy. That's how we're feeding it. The covetousness through our fantasies. Repeatedly thinking about it. And this is true with any mental affliction. If it just comes up and we let it go, it's not so serious. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:12 Highlight the passage at 1:07:12

1:07:41 These things just come up as a ripening of previous habits. But then if we keep feeding it, keep thinking. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:41 Highlight the passage at 1:07:41

1:07:52 Then it builds stronger and then becomes covetous. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:52 Highlight the passage at 1:07:52

1:08:03 And this is totally the way of falling in love, right? You meet this person and then you think about how wonderful they are and you can't stop thinking about them building and building and building. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:03 Highlight the passage at 1:08:03

1:08:19 Yes. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:19 Highlight the passage at 1:08:19

1:08:22 But what about the aspect of belonging of another or belonging to another? I don't understand the flat screen TV sample because... I mean, it's at a store, so it doesn't necessarily belong to someone, and planning to buy it doesn't seem like the covetous. It still belongs to the store, right? It's coveting an object that you don't own. Right, but at the store, it's for sale. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:22 Highlight the passage at 1:08:22

1:08:51 It doesn't belong to anyone specifically. It's there for you to purchase. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:51 Highlight the passage at 1:08:51

1:09:01 It's belonging to another. I mean, my personal opinion is it's less serious if it's... If it's at a store versus, you know, in somebody else's house that you plan to steal, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:09:01 Highlight the passage at 1:09:01

1:09:17 But it's still, the mental process though is similar, you know, that if it's in the store and we just keep thinking about it and we want it, we want it, we want it, we want it, we have to have it, we have to have it, you know, it's taken over our minds, right? And, you know, and it's nothing. It's not bad in and of itself, but it's certainly going against the, you know, enlightenment, right? Where we're, you know, letting go of it, Report an error in the passage at 1:09:17 Highlight the passage at 1:09:17

1:09:55 develop happiness from within, right? Covetousness is, I need that thing out there. It's an interesting one because this covetousness is kind of the way of life for us in the West and we don't think of it as being there and as being anything wrong with it. But it does go against the spiritual path. It goes against that contentment. We have a similar analogy in Christianity to something that belongs to another, thy neighbor's wife, that kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:55 Highlight the passage at 1:09:55

1:10:36 So there it is, he does the negative. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:36 Highlight the passage at 1:10:36

1:10:42 Yeah, it's an interesting point. I've been thinking about that as well. And let me see if, I guess she, Sopa says anything Report an error in the passage at 1:10:42 Highlight the passage at 1:10:42

1:10:56 that thing exists from its side. Yeah, for sure. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:56 Highlight the passage at 1:10:56

1:11:13 Let's go on and continue with covetousness and then see if it becomes more clear. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:13 Highlight the passage at 1:11:13

1:11:24 Let's just see if it becomes more clear. But then as you're saying, to covet it, yeah, we do believe. I mean, for sure the, I mean, anyway. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:24 Highlight the passage at 1:11:24

1:11:32 Need to believe it exists right out there from its own side. To have any mental affliction actually. And covetousness in particular. Somehow we believe that there's a power of that object to make me happy. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:32 Highlight the passage at 1:11:32

1:11:53 If I had that flat screen TV, everything would be different in my life. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:53 Highlight the passage at 1:11:53

1:12:04 For me it's not flat screen TVs, but I have other things. Would it be a chair for you? It was at one time. But now that I have the chair, it's okay. It's something else. Like there's certain stores, you know, you go in and you don't even want to look around because you can just see the mind going. And Report an error in the passage at 1:12:04 Highlight the passage at 1:12:04

1:12:33 then the completion is the thought, may this possession be mine. Or Gishisopa says, the culmination of the action takes place when you resolve that you will make that object your own. It is the thought. I definitely want to have that thing for myself. In the beginning, the thought is not really definite, but it gradually develops until you get to the point where you firmly resolve to have it for yourself. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:33 Highlight the passage at 1:12:33

1:13:01 And so we know that process, right? Oh, yeah, that's really nice. And then I have to have it, right, gradually. You know, the more we fantasize about it, then we have to. We can't live without it. And then, right, so this is purely a mental resolution. There is no physical action necessary. So we don't actually physically have to go about it, you know, getting it. But mentally, you know, mentally deciding I have to have it is covetousness, completes the covetousness. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:01 Highlight the passage at 1:13:01

1:13:34 The completion, Geshe Loden says, the completion is the final decision to find a way of getting the other's possessions for yourself. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:34 Highlight the passage at 1:13:34

1:13:49 So then there's this discussion, Lama Tsongkhapa gets in the discussion of... The five aspects that make it a full-fledged mental non-virtue. So for covetousness, for it to be full-fledged covetousness. So the first one is having a mind that is exceedingly attached to your own resources, your own possessions, your own body, your own qualities, whatever it is. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:49 Highlight the passage at 1:13:49

1:14:18 So we have to have a strong attachment to our own possessions. And then... We have to, number two, having a mind of attachment that wants to accumulate resources or possessions or whatever it is, qualities. So a mind of attachment that wants to accumulate, therefore never being satisfied with what you have. So this mind that always needs more, it's the opposite of contentment. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:18 Highlight the passage at 1:14:18

1:14:55 So not being content, not being satisfied. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:55 Highlight the passage at 1:14:55

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:15:40 So Gishisopa says here you must have an avaricious craving to accumulate wealth, like for the second one. So we have Tsongkhapa says this mind of attachment, but Gishisopa goes even further, right? This mind of avaricious, like craving for more. Number three, having a mind of longing due to comprehending or experiencing the good things of others, their wealth and so forth. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:40 Highlight the passage at 1:15:40

1:16:07 So going to somebody's house and seeing what they have and having this longing mind, oh, I wish I had that. Or I wish I had that person's car. I wish I had that person's whatever it is. And then number four, having an envious mind, thinking that whatever is somebody else's should be mine. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:07 Highlight the passage at 1:16:07

1:16:30 Other people have it, I should have it too. That sounds familiar, right? Teenagers. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:30 Highlight the passage at 1:16:30

1:16:39 So if other people have it, I should have it too. Actually, that's pretty. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:39 Highlight the passage at 1:16:39

1:16:44 Basic to this culture. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:44 Highlight the passage at 1:16:44

1:16:49 Then number five, having a mind that is overcome due to covetousness by shamelessness and an obliviousness about the determination to be free from the faults of covetousness. So this is one that doesn't actually see covetousness as being a fault, not even seeing anything wrong with it. So here, the covetous mind has no thought of shame. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:49 Highlight the passage at 1:16:49

1:17:18 It does not recognize this avaricious attitude is wrong, so it has no thought of turning away from it. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:18 Highlight the passage at 1:17:18

1:17:28 So we don't even try to apply an antidote to it if we have a full-fledged covetousness because we just think that that's just fine. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:28 Highlight the passage at 1:17:28

1:17:41 So if any of these five minds is not present, then there's no actual full-fledged covetousness. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:41 Highlight the passage at 1:17:41

1:17:54 So this kind of makes it a little more clear. We have a strong attachment to what we have. We want more and more. We have this mind of longing and craving when we see that other people have what we want. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:54 Highlight the passage at 1:17:54

1:18:16 I was just watching that movie the other night. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:16 Highlight the passage at 1:18:16

1:18:25 And then having this envious mind or this greedy mind, thinking that whatever other people have, I should have. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:25 Highlight the passage at 1:18:25

1:18:34 five, the mind. It doesn't even think that there's anything wrong with it. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:34 Highlight the passage at 1:18:34

1:18:45 Okay. Why don't we take a break? Report an error in the passage at 1:18:45 Highlight the passage at 1:18:45

1:18:52 Sorry, I kind of went past the time of break. I get kind of excited about this stuff. It's really interesting. Because this was me my whole life. I didn't think there was anything wrong. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:52 Highlight the passage at 1:18:52

1:19:34 Is that stuff that we turn in or is it just kind of like things to keep us thinking about If you keep thinking about it, and we may review it in class, some answers, but you know. It's more out there. But if you think to help, or only learning. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, certainly. I mean, yeah, I think. Remind yourself. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:34 Highlight the passage at 1:19:34

1:20:03 Right, for sure. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:03 Highlight the passage at 1:20:03

1:20:14 you very much. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:14 Highlight the passage at 1:20:14

1:20:19 sure it won't let me I'll write myself a note because I'll forget. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:19 Highlight the passage at 1:20:19

1:20:32 I'm just going to give him my hoof to fall scratched up. All Report an error in the passage at 1:20:32 Highlight the passage at 1:20:32

· · · silence, 19 minutes

1:39:13 right, so I'll just go through this quickly. So just some examples of covetousness that's not fully fledged that may come up for us. And some of these are kind of dated, but we can kind of adjust them to our times. Like the thought, how nice it would be if the master of the house were to become my servant and things could be however I wish them. How nice it would be if my boss became my employee and I could do what I want. Report an error in the passage at 1:39:13 Highlight the passage at 1:39:13

1:39:52 Or a thought with regard to the wife of children, the possessions, right? How nice if their possessions were mine, blah, blah, blah, blah. Report an error in the passage at 1:39:52 Highlight the passage at 1:39:52

1:40:03 Or number three, how nice it would be if others knew me to have such good qualities as being blah, blah, blah, whatever, dispassionate, retiring, persevering, learned, generous, wonderful, right, in general, right? How nice it would be if others thought I had all these qualities. Or number four, how nice it would be if kings and ministers or whoever, right, were to respect me and if I were to... Report an error in the passage at 1:40:03 Highlight the passage at 1:40:03

1:40:33 Obtain such necessities as food and clothing or whatever it is that I want. Flat screen TVs. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:33 Highlight the passage at 1:40:33

1:40:46 Or thinking, may I be reborn in the future as a deity and enjoy the deity's five sensory objects. So kind of this greedy mind wanting to have a lot of sense pleasures in a next life. Or developing desire for possessions of parents, children, servants. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:46 Highlight the passage at 1:40:46

1:41:10 The like are the possessions of your fellow religious practitioners, friends, etc. So these are not fully fledged covetousnesses. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:10 Highlight the passage at 1:41:10

1:41:25 So these are common desires that come up, but not fully fledged unless we have the five qualities that I had mentioned in the previous slide. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:25 Highlight the passage at 1:41:25

1:41:48 So to your question, Anna, about whether it has to be somebody else's possessions, not something in a store, it seems like the descriptions are really mostly about something that other people own. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:48 Highlight the passage at 1:41:48

1:42:04 If it's something in the store that we covet, it doesn't seem to be really covered as, you know, like a fully fledged kind of covet. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:04 Highlight the passage at 1:42:04

1:42:14 It's like kind of envying other people's possessions, you know, their qualities, their... Their wealth, their possessions. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:14 Highlight the passage at 1:42:14

1:42:28 But I feel like I'm doing this if I'm planning too much on some time coming up when I'm going to have a lot of fun. And I become obsessed with how much fun I'm going to have. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:28 Highlight the passage at 1:42:28

1:42:40 And I lose track of reality. I'm not here. I'm throwing away every day until that day. And that day exists from its own side and these don't count. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:40 Highlight the passage at 1:42:40

1:42:55 Right. And so you're not, yeah, you're not present, you're not feeling content, you're not... It's a similar kind of mind though, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:42:55 Highlight the passage at 1:42:55

1:43:08 Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:08 Highlight the passage at 1:43:08

1:43:14 And it's going to last too. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:14 Highlight the passage at 1:43:14

1:43:23 Okay. I mean, most of us have something like that, right? You know, we can just change what the object is, you know, if it's going to be fun or if it's going to be flat screen TV or if it's going to be... Just wait until I become, you know, enlightened. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:23 Highlight the passage at 1:43:23

1:43:49 So we can see, right, how much suffering this creates, right, how we can't ever feel content, we can't feel satisfied, we can't feel, like, at peace, right, if we always need to have something that somebody else has. We always have to have something else. We need more. We need another credit card so we can buy more things. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:49 Highlight the passage at 1:43:49

1:44:18 Yeah. Are we basically then describing craving, grasping, greed? I mean, is that what this covetousness really means? Yeah, I mean, it's a form of this craving, grasping, but it's kind of an extreme form, right? So, I mean, just attachment and craving and grasping, you know, those are all mental afflictions. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:18 Highlight the passage at 1:44:18

1:44:40 But it's interesting, in the Ten Non-Virtues, they isolate out these extreme... The more harmful forms, right? Because, I mean, we're trying to avoid the ten non-virtues, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:44:40 Highlight the passage at 1:44:40

1:44:59 As much as we can. But, you know, like if they put attachment as ten non-virtue, you know, we would be, we would never escape, right? That one, we get awfully frustrated. But at least this extreme form of attachment, right? The covetousness we can work on and then gradually. Less and less. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:59 Highlight the passage at 1:44:59

1:45:26 Remembering the non-virtues aren't all-inclusive of non-virtues, but they're what Lama Tsongkhapa calls the coarser ones, the more obvious ones. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:26 Highlight the passage at 1:45:26

1:45:43 Make sense? Okay. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:43 Highlight the passage at 1:45:43

1:45:55 Yeah, so David, your example of focusing on future fun, I don't think it's covetousness, but it's more this craving, grasping thing. Yeah. Yeah, you're not coveting somebody else's fun. Well, maybe you are. But the way you described it, you weren't coveting somebody else's fun. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:55 Highlight the passage at 1:45:55

1:46:30 Because this one is, covetousness seems to have this aspect of kind of envy or jealousy. It's like, oh, other people are having so much fun and I'm not. Or other people have that and I want it. I should have it as that extra. true. Report an error in the passage at 1:46:30 Highlight the passage at 1:46:30

1:46:53 Right. Yeah, that's a very good point. You're not rejoicing in others. Good fortune. You want it for yourself. Report an error in the passage at 1:46:53 Highlight the passage at 1:46:53

1:47:04 And it seems to be not necessary, right, that it's not that you don't want them to have it. It's just that you want it yourself. Right. It seems like that's what makes it a non-virtue. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:04 Highlight the passage at 1:47:04

1:47:23 Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that makes it the opposite of that virtuous mind. But what makes it a non-virtue is that it's suffering. It creates suffering. I mean, that's what a non-virtue is, right? It has a result of suffering, right? So it has a result of suffering for ourselves, for sure, right? Because it's this unsatisfied mind that's not happy, right? Not happy when we see other people have something we don't. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:23 Highlight the passage at 1:47:23

1:47:56 Big suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:56 Highlight the passage at 1:47:56

1:48:01 Harmful intent. Basis. The basis is the same as with harsh words. So it's a... Someone who is a source of hostility to you, someone we want to hurt, or a living being who would be hurt if our harmful action were acted out. Report an error in the passage at 1:48:01 Highlight the passage at 1:48:01

1:48:22 So someone we want to hurt, want them to suffer or experience some misfortune, the Report an error in the passage at 1:48:22 Highlight the passage at 1:48:22

1:48:33 attitude and perception, recognizing the sentient being who would be hurt if your harmful action were acted out. So correctly recognizing that person, right? Correctly identifying that person. Okay, I want this person that hurt me, I want them to suffer. Correctly recognizing that person. Affliction the same, any of the three poisons. The motivation. The desire to do such things as strike others, thinking such thoughts as how nice it would be if they were killed, bound, or their resources were ruined, either naturally or by another person. Report an error in the passage at 1:48:33 Highlight the passage at 1:48:33

1:49:17 So you want this person to be harmed as a result of external causes, your own actions or the actions of others. You just want them, you know, you want them to experience harm, to experience hurt. You know, like the ex-boyfriend or girlfriend, you know, who, you know, dumped me, you know, may they be dumped, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:49:17 Highlight the passage at 1:49:17

1:49:45 That's harmful intent. I don't even have to do it, but that person who cheated me, may they be financially, may they lose a lot of money in the stock market. Just that wish that that person experiences some sort of suffering, this harmful intent. So this is easy to do. Report an error in the passage at 1:49:45 Highlight the passage at 1:49:45

1:50:13 I find it's... It's dangerous to watch certain movies, like the bad guys. You want the bad guys to get it. You see it a lot in our government too. Report an error in the passage at 1:50:13 Highlight the passage at 1:50:13

1:50:30 Somebody gets killed in their family and they want that other person to die. They want them to be put to death and they're not going to be happy until it's done. Thinking that's going to make them feel better and then in the end it doesn't. And Report an error in the passage at 1:50:30 Highlight the passage at 1:50:30

1:50:47 it creates awful imprints in our minds to suffer in the future. when people... Report an error in the passage at 1:50:47 Highlight the passage at 1:50:47

1:50:53 Exactly. I mean, that seems perfectly natural, right, in our society that's justified, you know, kind of an eye for an eye kind of thing. If that person harms me, then it's perfectly justified to harm them back, in our minds at least. Report an error in the passage at 1:50:53 Highlight the passage at 1:50:53

1:51:15 That whole vengeance thing, right, that's so unhealthy. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:15 Highlight the passage at 1:51:15

1:51:36 So the performance or the action is just having that thought. Having that thought, you know, may they lose a lot of money in the stock market. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:36 Highlight the passage at 1:51:36

1:51:49 I guess Yusopa says, the actual action is the arising of the malicious wish that harm should come to another person. It's the mental process of indulging in this kind of thought as it develops, increases and becomes stronger. Report an error in the passage at 1:51:49 Highlight the passage at 1:51:49

1:52:04 I mean, I was watching, right, the second, the second. Two Towers. Yeah, Two Towers the other night. I don't know if you guys saw that movie, the big war scene, the people who are trying to destroy the world, the kind of nameless, faceless beings, and then there are the good guys who are trying to save. Report an error in the passage at 1:52:04 Highlight the passage at 1:52:04

1:52:32 And it's just very interesting to watch the mind try not to root for the good guys and destroy the bad guys, kill the bad guys. Report an error in the passage at 1:52:32 Highlight the passage at 1:52:32

1:52:42 Naturally, you want the bad guys to die, or at least in my mind, habitually watching those movies. And I had to really work on my mind in watching that. It's like, oh, they're sentient beings, they just want to be happy, and just try to create that feeling for them, that feeling of compassion. You know, empathy for them. Otherwise, you know, it's just natural that the mind just, you know, wants them to lose, wants them to, you know, be gone kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:52:42 Highlight the passage at 1:52:42

1:53:24 It's interesting how automatic, you know, that comes Report an error in the passage at 1:53:24 Highlight the passage at 1:53:24

1:53:34 Madoff, right? The guy who bilked, you know, people out of billions of dollars, you know, it's very, you know, we have to be really careful, right, not to rejoice, you know, that he, you know, that... He's getting sentenced in jail and wanting him to suffer. We have to be careful with our minds. Report an error in the passage at 1:53:34 Highlight the passage at 1:53:34

1:54:01 And just mindfulness, if the thought arises to not feed it, to try to counteract it. And so the completion of the harmful intent consists in the decision to hit and the like, or determination or decision to do such things as beating. Report an error in the passage at 1:54:01 Highlight the passage at 1:54:01

1:54:23 So this takes it to another step, right? It's just not a harmful thought, but the action is complete when you resolve to definitely go through with the action of beating, killing or harming in some way. Report an error in the passage at 1:54:23 Highlight the passage at 1:54:23

1:54:37 The way this mental process plays out is that the intention to harm increases more and more until finally a definite decision to hurt dominates the mind. That is the completion of the karma of harmful intent. So it's not just the thought. You know, I hope they get harmed. But then taking that extra step of deciding to try to hurt them in some way. Report an error in the passage at 1:54:37 Highlight the passage at 1:54:37

1:55:09 Okay. Report an error in the passage at 1:55:09 Highlight the passage at 1:55:09

1:55:14 And once again, this is mental, right? We don't have to physically do anything, but just the decision in our mind to harm that person in some way. Report an error in the passage at 1:55:14 Highlight the passage at 1:55:14

1:55:32 And then the full-fledged harmful intent, the five qualities. So the first one, you must have a mind of hatred that grasps firmly at a cause or reason why you want to do harm to a particular person. So this talks about the degrees again, right? Because we have that mind that pops up of anger when somebody hurts us or something. Report an error in the passage at 1:55:32 Highlight the passage at 1:55:32

1:55:59 But then we grasp firmly at the cause or the reason that justifies that. You know, which goes on to the next step, right? Not just the thought, but feeding that thought that I'm right, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:55:59 Highlight the passage at 1:55:59

1:56:18 The second is you must have a mind that cannot bear the harm that was done to you, right? That can't let it go, right? Can't think, oh, well, you know, that person was just having a bad day, but that person did that to me. Report an error in the passage at 1:56:18 Highlight the passage at 1:56:18

1:56:38 The third, you must have a mind of resentment, which comes from recollecting. And repeatedly dwelling on the reasons for your anger. So this is what we do, right? We play it in our minds again and again, right? Which is causing the anger to build and this resentment, you know, this kind of resentment which is a continuum of anger, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:56:38 Highlight the passage at 1:56:38

1:57:04 Which lasts for a long time. It's not just that flash of anger that's gone, right? We keep feeding it by... By playing through how this person wronged me again and again. Report an error in the passage at 1:57:04 Highlight the passage at 1:57:04

1:57:19 And then fourth, you must have a mind of vengeance with a thought, it would be good if that person were beaten or killed. After having repeatedly thought about the harm you believe someone has done to you, you finally feel the need to hit back to repay the harm in some fashion. So not only this resentment dwelling on the harm or how that person wronged you, but then, okay, now I have to get... Report an error in the passage at 1:57:19 Highlight the passage at 1:57:19

1:57:44 They need to suffer than taking that next step, Report an error in the passage at 1:57:44 Highlight the passage at 1:57:44

1:57:54 which we see like in Shane's example, right? A relative is killed. And then number fifth, number five, once again, you have to have a mind that's so overcome with this malice that we're oblivious to the disadvantages of such an attitude, right? So once again, not having shame, not thinking there's anything wrong with it, right? Uninterested in avoiding such faults. Report an error in the passage at 1:57:54 Highlight the passage at 1:57:54

1:58:21 So when you have no countervailing thought challenging your vengeful desire to harm your enemy, when you feel no regret, no shame, no hesitation or doubt, when you're completely under the power of that thought, that's the fifth and final element for complete and perfect malice or harmful. Report an error in the passage at 1:58:21 Highlight the passage at 1:58:21

1:58:43 So actually Shane gave us a perfect example, right? If your relative is killed and then you really want, you're pushing for death penalty for that person. And you don't think there's anything wrong with it. You feel fully justified. That's an example of this full-fledged harmful intent. Report an error in the passage at 1:58:43 Highlight the passage at 1:58:43

1:59:06 So this is something that we can avoid, just with some mindfulness. We have anger come up and then if we apply the antidote, we try not to feed it. We try not to go over it again and again in our minds. We try to develop some compassion for them. Then automatically it's not a full-fledged harmful intent. Report an error in the passage at 1:59:06 Highlight the passage at 1:59:06

1:59:28 Anger, Report an error in the passage at 1:59:28 Highlight the passage at 1:59:28

1:59:38 so we can see the steps. Anger becomes justified anger, becomes resentment, which becomes wanting to hurt somebody. If we keep feeding it, like if we don't counteract it, it can move in that direction. So the Dharma is really about trying to, well the practical Dharma is trying to at least not feed those thoughts as they arise and try to counteract them. Report an error in the passage at 1:59:38 Highlight the passage at 1:59:38

2:00:09 Because the thoughts will arise, right, just out of habit. Report an error in the passage at 2:00:09 Highlight the passage at 2:00:09

2:00:16 But then what we do with the thought is we follow it and we feed it, or if we try to do something to counteract it. Report an error in the passage at 2:00:16 Highlight the passage at 2:00:16

2:00:30 Okay. Any other questions or comments on that? We'll go through wrong view next time. Report an error in the passage at 2:00:30 Highlight the passage at 2:00:30

2:00:45 Oh, and I sent out the homework via email. Does anybody want a physical copy? Report an error in the passage at 2:00:45 Highlight the passage at 2:00:45

2:01:04 Oh, wait. I think I just gave you one page. There are two sides. Report an error in the passage at 2:01:04 Highlight the passage at 2:01:04

2:01:15 No, but did you get one too? Okay, you didn't. Yeah, you got the math. Report an error in the passage at 2:01:15 Highlight the passage at 2:01:15

2:01:22 Oh, it doesn't matter. the original. I think David has the original. That's okay. okay. Do you want No, it's all right. You can have a two-sided one. So we'll just dedicate the merit. So next time we'll go into wrong view and then a really interesting section in this text of kind of what... What are the factors that make a karma heavier or lighter? At least I find it really interesting. Report an error in the passage at 2:01:22 Highlight the passage at 2:01:22

2:02:00 So I'll dedicate for the peace and happiness of all beings without exception. May Report an error in the passage at 2:02:00 Highlight the passage at 2:02:00

2:02:17 all beings be free from harm, free from fear, free from oppression, Report an error in the passage at 2:02:17 Highlight the passage at 2:02:17

2:02:29 free from depression, free from all sorts of suffering, poverty, hunger, homelessness. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 2:02:29 Highlight the passage at 2:02:29

· · · silence, 1 minute

2:03:04 contribute to that as much as we can Report an error in the passage at 2:03:04 Highlight the passage at 2:03:04

2:03:13 developing our own qualities and more so that we can benefit others Report an error in the passage at 2:03:13 Highlight the passage at 2:03:13

2:03:24 a better, more complete way. Report an error in the passage at 2:03:24 Highlight the passage at 2:03:24

2:03:52 we practice well and always meet the Dharma in all our lives. qualified spiritual masters who can lead us to enlightenment. Is Report an error in the passage at 2:03:52 Highlight the passage at 2:03:52

· · · silence, 2 minutes

2:06:20 that where you're going to have lots of fun? We'll see about it. When I plan fun, it's just some isolated, solitary delusion of fun. When it involves other real people, I look forward to a legality fascination. Report an error in the passage at 2:06:20 Highlight the passage at 2:06:20

2:06:43 Well, I've heard Nova Scotia is beautiful. Well, I've never been there, but it's where my name comes from. I'm only one quarter Scottish, but my name is Scottish. Report an error in the passage at 2:06:43 Highlight the passage at 2:06:43

2:06:57 There's a thing called the Gathering of the Clank Report an error in the passage at 2:06:57 Highlight the passage at 2:06:57

2:07:03 Gather. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:03 Highlight the passage at 2:07:03

2:07:07 I've been eating agate. Report an error in the passage at 2:07:07 Highlight the passage at 2:07:07