Special Insight 2: Wisdom of Emptiness (16 August 2011)

0:27 I've gotten a slow start. Report an error in the passage at 0:27 Highlight the passage at 0:27

0:38 Okay, so why don't we just start as people meander and we'll start by setting our motivation. Report an error in the passage at 0:38 Highlight the passage at 0:38

0:49 So we can just, well, first settle our minds and then try to develop some sort of a bodhicitta motivation or motivation to benefit others. Let's Report an error in the passage at 0:49 Highlight the passage at 0:49

· · · silence, 2 minutes

3:07 start with the priest, Manjushri, in the white book on the first page. Report an error in the passage at 3:07 Highlight the passage at 3:07

3:23 Obeisance to my guru and protector, Manjushri, who holds to his heart a scriptural text symbolic of his seeing all things as they are, whose intelligence shines forth as the sun, unclouded by delusions or traces of ignorance, who teaches in sixty ways with the loving compassion of a father for his only son, all creatures caught in the prison of saṃsāra, confused in the darkness of their ignorance, overwhelmed by their suffering. Report an error in the passage at 3:23 Highlight the passage at 3:23

3:48 You, whose dragon-thunder-like proclamation of Dharma arouses us from the stupor of our delusions and frees us from the iron chains of our karma, who wields the sword of wisdom, hewing down suffering wherever its sprouts appear, clearing away the darkness of ignorance. You, whose princely body is adorned with 112 marks of a Buddha, who has completed the stages achieving the highest perfection of a Bodhisattva. Report an error in the passage at 3:48 Highlight the passage at 3:48

4:13 Who has been pure from the beginning, I bow down to you, O Manjushri, with the Report an error in the passage at 4:13 Highlight the passage at 4:13

4:32 brilliance of your wisdom, O compassionate one. Illuminate the darkness enclosing my mind. Enlighten my intelligence and wisdom so that I may gain insight into Buddha's words and the texts that explain them. Report an error in the passage at 4:32 Highlight the passage at 4:32

4:45 And then the Heart Sūtra. page 76, I believe, in the Globe Book. Report an error in the passage at 4:45 Highlight the passage at 4:45

4:57 I have 79. Report an error in the passage at 4:57 Highlight the passage at 4:57

5:08 I prostrate to the Arya Triple Gem. Thus did I hear at one time, the Bhagavan was dwelling on Mass Vultures Mountain in Rajgriha, together with a great community of monks and a great community of Bodhisattvas. At that time, the Bhagavan was absorbed in the concentration on the categories of phenomena called profound perception. Also at that time, the Bodhisattva Mahasattva Arya Avalokiteshvara looked upon the very practice of the profound perfection of wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 5:08 Highlight the passage at 5:08

5:36 And beheld those five aggregates also as empty of inherent nature. Then through the power of Buddha, the venerable Shari Putra said this to the Bodhisattva Maha Sattva Arya Avalokiteshvara. How should any son of the lineage train who wishes to practice the activity of the profound perfection of wisdom? He said that and the Bodhisattva Maha Sattva Arya Avalokiteshvara said this to the venerable Shari Vati Putra. Report an error in the passage at 5:36 Highlight the passage at 5:36

6:02 Shariputra, any son of the lineage or daughter of the lineage who wishes to practice the activity of the profound perfection of wisdom should look upon it like this, correctly and repeatedly beholding those five aggregates also as empty of inherent nature. Form is empty, emptiness is form. Emptiness is not other than form. Form is also not other than emptiness. In the same way, feeling, discrimination, compositional factors and consciousness are empty. Report an error in the passage at 6:02 Highlight the passage at 6:02

6:30 Shariputra, likewise all phenomena are emptiness, without characteristic, unproduced, unceased, stainless, not without stain, not deficient, not fulfilled. Shariputra, therefore, in emptiness there is no form, no feeling, no discrimination, no compositional factors, no consciousness, no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. Report an error in the passage at 6:30 Highlight the passage at 6:30

6:54 No visual form, no sound, no odor, no taste, no object of touch and no phenomenon. There is no I element and so on up to and including no mind element and no mental consciousness element. There is no ignorance, no extinction of ignorance and so on up to and including no aging and death and no extinction of aging and death. Similarly, there is no suffering, origination, cessation and path. Report an error in the passage at 6:54 Highlight the passage at 6:54

7:19 There is no exalted wisdom, no attainment and also no non-attainment. Shariputra, therefore, because there is no attainment, bodhisattvas rely on and dwell in the perfection of wisdom, the mind without obscuration and without fear. Having completely passed beyond error, they reach the end point of nirvāṇa. All the Buddhas who dwell in the three times also manifestly completely awaken to unsurpassable, perfect, complete enlightenment, reliance on the perfection of wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 7:19 Highlight the passage at 7:19

7:48 Therefore, the mantra of the perfection of wisdom. The mantra of great knowledge, the unsurpassed mantra, the mantra equal to the unequaled, the mantra that thoroughly pacifies all suffering, should be known as truth since it is not false. The mantra of the perfection of wisdom is declared. The Bodhisattva Maha Sattva should train in the profound perfection of wisdom like that. Report an error in the passage at 7:48 Highlight the passage at 7:48

8:16 Then the Bhagavan arose from that concentration and commended the Bodhisattva, Maha Sattva, Arya, Avalokiteshvara, saying, Well said, well said, son of the lineage, it is like that, it is like that. One should practice the profound perfection of wisdom just as you have indicated. Even the Tathagatas rejoice. Bhagavan having thus spoken, the Venerable Sarivati Putra, the Bodhisattva, Maha Sattva, Arya, Avalokiteshvara. Report an error in the passage at 8:16 Highlight the passage at 8:16

8:43 And those surrounding in their entirety, along with the world of gods, humans, asuras and gandharvas, were overjoyed and highly praised that spoken by the Bhagavan. And then refuge in bodhicitta on page 98. I Report an error in the passage at 8:43 Highlight the passage at 8:43

9:06 go for refuge until I'm enlightened to the Buddha, the Dharma and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. I go for refuge until I am enlightened, to the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. Report an error in the passage at 9:06 Highlight the passage at 9:06

9:29 I go for refuge until I am enlightened, to the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Supreme Assembly. By the merits I create through listening to the Dharma, may I become a Buddha in order to benefit all sentient beings. Report an error in the passage at 9:29 Highlight the passage at 9:29

9:57 So I thought that I would start by reading a poem that our friend Venerable Rene wrote. I posted it on Facebook today on the Sechen Ling page, but in case you haven't seen it, here it is. So he composed it just recently in Colorado. Report an error in the passage at 9:57 Highlight the passage at 9:57

10:19 Composed it in French and then Fabienne at Vajrapani translated it. So it's called the Vajrasong. Wonderful. The hut and trees are mere karmic appearances to the mind. And even mind itself is not to be found. Marvelous. The mental afflictions that disturb are like reflections in a teacup. Intangible. Unbelievable. Report an error in the passage at 10:19 Highlight the passage at 10:19

10:51 Pain of the body and aches of the heart are insubstantial, a mirage, amazing. The clouds of doubt dissipate by themselves in the space of clear light where the heart is pure. This purity won't be obtained by mindless repetition of parched prayers, nor through dry knowledge of the intellect, nor even by virtuous acts. Report an error in the passage at 10:51 Highlight the passage at 10:51

11:17 This purity is only within the reach of those who shout, cry. and dance their devotion to enlightenment. So, Report an error in the passage at 11:17 Highlight the passage at 11:17

· · · silence, 1 minute

12:16 as our experience of emptiness grows, as our experience Report an error in the passage at 12:16 Highlight the passage at 12:16

12:27 of emptiness grows, until the exhausted ego surrenders. heart thus softened, the blessings of the Buddhas abound, peace settles in to stay. Our prayers, knowledge, and virtuous acts are soaked with the new intelligence of this heart. Report an error in the passage at 12:27 Highlight the passage at 12:27

12:04 to what we're doing here. Report an error in the passage at 12:04 Highlight the passage at 12:04

12:29 Then those mental afflictions have nothing to hold on to. Because right now our mental afflictions, when we have mental afflictions, well for most of us, they just kind of sink into our mind like mud. Report an error in the passage at 12:29 Highlight the passage at 12:29

12:50 They get caught in our mind and then we're trudging through the mud and we're getting more and more deeply bound. So involved in our stories, so believing in our stories, right, just getting deeply entrenched. But as our experience of emptiness grows and grows and our meditation gets stronger and stronger, the mental afflictions are just like thoughts that just Report an error in the passage at 12:50 Highlight the passage at 12:50

13:29 glance off the mind, like the difference between cooking an egg on a... skillet on a pan. There's nothing that sticks, right? So the thoughts still arise, but there's nothing to hang on to and they just glance off the mind, right? They're just passing thoughts, right? Nothing of substance. And when they're passing thoughts... Report an error in the passage at 13:29 Highlight the passage at 13:29

14:06 They don't disturb our mind, right? They disturb our mind when we get, when we hang on to them, right? When we grasp on to them, when we believe them. It goes with attachment, it goes with annoyance, it goes for jealousy, it goes for all of our various mental afflictions. Report an error in the passage at 14:06 Highlight the passage at 14:06

14:31 We can get either entrenched in them or through training slowly and slowly, slowly they just... Report an error in the passage at 14:31 Highlight the passage at 14:31

14:43 another thought. Report an error in the passage at 14:43 Highlight the passage at 14:43

14:46 those thoughts will keep coming for a long time, right, out of habit. have, there's like these tape recorders in our mind, right? These tape recordings in our minds. Like, oh, there's that thought that I've had. five thousand times right and then you know and so they'll keep coming but we'll grasp onto them less and less until We just let them go. We just see them as passing thought, passing energy. Report an error in the passage at 14:46 Highlight the passage at 14:46

15:26 Or so they say, right? Report an error in the passage at 15:26 Highlight the passage at 15:26

15:32 But we see that with the lamas, right? They don't get bogged down by their thoughts. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has all sorts of problems on his hands, right? Beyond anything that we have to deal with. And he doesn't get heavy. heavy you know He might get sad for a moment and then he'll just peel into laughter right the next moment. So it means his thoughts aren't getting entrenched. Report an error in the passage at 15:32 Highlight the passage at 15:32

16:15 So we talked the last time, well we've talked in the last couple of classes about how we need to realize that that object that we're hanging on to, that object that we're grasping on to during a mental affliction doesn't exist at all. Report an error in the passage at 16:15 Highlight the passage at 16:15

16:37 And through abandoning ignorance, then we abandon our mental projections of attractiveness and repulsiveness, which are attractiveness and repulsiveness do not abide within the object itself. Those are projections by our mind, imputations by our mind. And by stopping the projections, then we stop all of the other mental afflictions, like attachment, aversion. Report an error in the passage at 16:37 Highlight the passage at 16:37

17:08 And once we stop the other mental afflictions, we stop contaminated actions or karma that are motivated by them. And by stopping that, then we stop rebirth and cyclic existence. Report an error in the passage at 17:08 Highlight the passage at 17:08

17:24 That's how we get liberated. So next, we get to the bottom page 263 and the top of 264 in the text. Report an error in the passage at 17:24 Highlight the passage at 17:24

17:45 I'll try to be clear. Report an error in the passage at 17:45 Highlight the passage at 17:45

17:53 This next section is a big section. It's how to generate the view realizing selflessness. So how do we actually generate the realization of emptiness? Report an error in the passage at 17:53 Highlight the passage at 17:53

18:08 So the first outline underneath this section is the stages of generating the two views of selflessness. So on page 264, Lama Tsongkhapa says, As for the stages in which the two apprehensive... Apprehensions of self arise. The apprehension of a self of phenomena generates the apprehension of a self of persons. Report an error in the passage at 18:08 Highlight the passage at 18:08

18:33 So we talked about this before. So we have a conception of an inherently existent self of phenomena first and then a conception of an inherently existent person. So how does that work? So the body and mind appear first. If we're talking about a person, the body and our mind appear first and then we view that as being inherently existent. Report an error in the passage at 18:33 Highlight the passage at 18:33

19:03 We view that as being solid and then based on that we impute person or me on top of that and then we adhere to that as being inherently existent. So we don't have a conception of a person or a conception of I without... The aggregates, the body and our mind appearing first. Report an error in the passage at 19:03 Highlight the passage at 19:03

19:29 So first we have the conception of a self of phenomena, which is a self of phenomena other than persons, right? And then we have a conception of an inherently existent person. Report an error in the passage at 19:29 Highlight the passage at 19:29

19:44 But then, when you engage in the suchness or the emptiness of selflessness, then the order is reversed. And actually, we need to make a change to this translation. But anyways, it should say you first need to generate the view of the selflessness of persons and then after that generate the view realizing the selflessness of phenomena. Report an error in the passage at 19:44 Highlight the passage at 19:44

20:10 So with ignorance, the conception of a self of phenomena comes first and then the conception of persons, self of persons. But when we get the realization of selflessness or emptiness, first we realize selflessness of persons. And then the selflessness of phenomena. So the order is opposite when we're realizing selflessness. So we'll talk about what? Report an error in the passage at 20:10 Highlight the passage at 20:10

20:39 So what's written here is first you need to generate the view of the selflessness of phenomena and then after that generate the view realizing the selflessness of phenomena. So the first selflessness should say the selflessness of persons. So this is just a typo. Report an error in the passage at 20:39 Highlight the passage at 20:39

20:56 So it should say you first need to generate the view of the selflessness of persons and then after that generate the view realizing the selflessness of phenomena. Report an error in the passage at 20:56 Highlight the passage at 20:56

21:10 So in fact, in The Precious Garland, Nagarjuna's famous text, it says, Persons aren't earth nor water, aren't fire, wind nor space, aren't consciousness. If there are none of those, what could persons be other than that? Report an error in the passage at 21:10 Highlight the passage at 21:10

21:31 Since beings are composites of the six elements, they are not real, and just like that, each element is a composite too, and therefore is not real either. Report an error in the passage at 21:31 Highlight the passage at 21:31

21:43 So this is how we, you know, one way in which we realize the selflessness of persons first and then the selflessness of phenomena. So one way of talking about persons is persons are merely imputed on the five aggregates, the form, feeling, discrimination. discrimination, compositional factors, and consciousness. Report an error in the passage at 21:43 Highlight the passage at 21:43

22:03 That's the way we usually talk about it. But we can also talk about the person being imputed on the basis of the six elements. The six elements? The six elements. Earth, water, fire, wind or air, consciousness, what am I missing? Space. So those, right? Report an error in the passage at 22:03 Highlight the passage at 22:03

22:34 So persons, right, everything, all material phenomena is composed of the, well actually all phenomena are composed of one or more of these six elements. Report an error in the passage at 22:34 Highlight the passage at 22:34

22:45 Earth, water, fire, air, space and consciousness. So in the case of a person, right, the body is composed of the earth element, the water element, right, the heat of the body, the fire element. Report an error in the passage at 22:45 Highlight the passage at 22:45

23:10 The air is coursing through the body. The space element, the body cavities, and then the consciousness element. So the person is imputed in dependence on those elements, but the person isn't those elements. The person is imputed by the mind, by conception. Report an error in the passage at 23:10 Highlight the passage at 23:10

23:49 Persons or beings are, Nagarjuna is saying, are composites of these six elements. They are not real. They're imputed in dependence on these six elements. So the person isn't real, isn't inherently existent, because it's dependent on these six elements. And also, like if we think, okay, the person isn't real, but the basis of imputation is real. Report an error in the passage at 23:49 Highlight the passage at 23:49

24:17 Then Nagarjuna is refuting that. Well, even those aren't real, right? The six elements are also not real because they are also a composite as well. Report an error in the passage at 24:17 Highlight the passage at 24:17

24:33 So this is true with anything that we look at, right? This isn't a real table, right? Because it's imputed and dependent on its parts. Report an error in the passage at 24:33 Highlight the passage at 24:33

24:46 And the parts are also not real, not inherently existent, because they also have parts and they are also imputed independents on their parts. And ad infinitum, right? There are no partless particles, right? So everything can be broken down further, which means nothing is substantial, nothing is independent, nothing is concrete and solid, nothing is inherently existent, right? Report an error in the passage at 24:46 Highlight the passage at 24:46

25:16 So, this is a mistake oftentimes people make when they first get teachings on emptiness. They think, okay, well I can buy that there's no real table here, but there's a real object there, right? It's not a table, right? Table comes from the mind, but there's something real there. But then you break that down, right? Further and further and further and there's nothing. Report an error in the passage at 25:16 Highlight the passage at 25:16

25:40 Anything that we look for, there's nothing real. And oftentimes people say, oh, but they're energies, right? Everything is made up of energy, right? Well, that's true. But even energy is just imputed by the mind, right? That's not real or solid either. And that can break down. Report an error in the passage at 25:40 Highlight the passage at 25:40

26:07 So Lama Tsongkhapa says it is as stated. First the person and then the basis it is imputed on. The elements such as earth, etc. are said to lack inherent existence, right? So first the person, we don't find the person and then we don't find the basis of the person, six elements. Report an error in the passage at 26:07 Highlight the passage at 26:07

26:38 So in other words, first we see the emptiness of the person and then we see the emptiness of the basis, which is a self-phenomenon. Report an error in the passage at 26:38 Highlight the passage at 26:38

26:50 So Chandrakirti's clear words as well as Buddha Palita. Also explain that when entering into suchness or emptiness, one first enters from the selflessness of persons. Shantideva also says it is in this way. So Nagarjuna, Chandrakirti, Buddhapalita, Shantideva, the big shots all agree. Report an error in the passage at 26:50 Highlight the passage at 26:50

27:17 The reason why it must be done like this. Although there is no difference in subtlety with regard to the selflessness to be ascertained on the basis of persons and phenomena, due to the essentials of the substratum, it is easier to ascertain it in persons and more difficult to ascertain it in phenomena. Report an error in the passage at 27:17 Highlight the passage at 27:17

27:41 So remember, the selflessness of persons and selflessness of phenomena, there's no difference in subtlety in the view, right? In both instances, we're negating the same thing, right? We're negating inherent existence. We're negating existence from its own side. We're negating independent existence. We're negating findability among its basis. But due to the essentials of the substratum, or in other words, due to the nature of the basis of a person versus other phenomena, It's easier to ascertain, right? It's easier to understand that a person is imputed independence on the body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 27:41 Highlight the passage at 27:41

28:31 There's no person. The person is imputed independence on the body and mind than it is for us to understand that the table is imputed independence on. Report an error in the passage at 28:31 Highlight the passage at 28:31

28:48 Because when we studied the four schools, right, all of the schools... Right? The Vaibhashikas, the Sotrantikas, the Chittamatras. They all say that a person is an imputed existent. What does that mean? The person is imputed independence on the body and the mind. The person is imputed independence on the five aggregates. Whereas the lower schools say, well, other things exist substantially. Report an error in the passage at 28:48 Highlight the passage at 28:48

29:17 Vaibhashikas and the Sotrantikas. But, you know, the table exists substantially. Other things exist substantially. They seem to have a real substance. Whereas if we really think about it, the person, it's more readily understandable that the person is imputed in dependence on a body and a mind. Report an error in the passage at 29:17 Highlight the passage at 29:17

29:43 But it's not easy, right? I mean, you have to think about it. But even the lower schools agree that the person is imputed. Report an error in the passage at 29:43 Highlight the passage at 29:43

29:59 So likewise, it is more difficult, for example, to ascertain the selflessness of phenomena in eyes, ears and so forth, and easier to ascertain it in reflections and the like, which is why these are taken as illustrations for settling selflessness in the former. Report an error in the passage at 29:59 Highlight the passage at 29:59

30:18 So they say, right, so it's easier to ascertain or understand selflessness in terms of a person than it is in terms of eyes, ears. nose, etc. Report an error in the passage at 30:18 Highlight the passage at 30:18

30:33 likewise, it's easier to understand that things don't exist the way they appear in terms of reflections in the mirror and mirages and like that, right? there are certain bases, right, certain objects where it's easier to understand that they don't exist the way they appear, right, than others. So that's what is being said here. Report an error in the passage at 30:33 Highlight the passage at 30:33

31:03 This meaning is intended in the King of Concentrations where it says, And I'm changing the translation a little bit. So just as you know the discrimination of self, apply it to everything mentally. Report an error in the passage at 31:03 Highlight the passage at 31:03

31:19 All phenomena are completely devoid of their own entity-ness like space. All of them are known through one and all of them are seen through one. Report an error in the passage at 31:19 Highlight the passage at 31:19

31:34 So the first two lines, just as you know the discrimination of self, apply it to everything mentally. So when we're first... Trying to understand selflessness or emptiness, we start with trying to understand the emptiness of persons. We search for the person and we understand that the person isn't found within the body, it's not found within the mind. Report an error in the passage at 31:34 Highlight the passage at 31:34

31:59 The person is just imputed independence on the body and mind. So we've talked about this enough in the past. Report an error in the passage at 31:59 Highlight the passage at 31:59

32:26 So once we understand that, the person is just imputed. To the body and mind, it doesn't exist from its own side, right? Then we turn our attention to other things. Oh, then we turn our attention to, okay, maybe we understand that with respect to me. And then I can turn it to the annoying person and see, okay, well, they also don't exist from their own side. Report an error in the passage at 32:26 Highlight the passage at 32:26

32:55 Then I can turn to my objects of attachment, right? My house, maybe, or my iPad or whatever, right? And see that that doesn't exist from its own side. I can maybe turn to my opinions and see that those don't exist from their own side. So we need to do this exercise, right? That we have to keep doing this analysis, right? It's not as if we do the analysis on one thing and that solves all of our problems, right? Report an error in the passage at 32:55 Highlight the passage at 32:55

33:26 That we understand the emptiness of everything. We can, once we really, really understand the emptiness of one phenomenon, once we really have the correct view, then we just have to turn our mind to another object and then analyze that. And then we can realize the emptiness of that phenomenon. But it's not automatic. Conceptually, when we understand the emptiness of one thing, we still have to turn our minds to another object. Report an error in the passage at 33:26 Highlight the passage at 33:26

33:59 So we do this to make the mind... Or emptiness more and more deeply entrenched in our minds and to loosen up those mental afflictions that we have. And we all have different mental afflictions. There are, you know, little hot buttons. So we work on whatever we need. Report an error in the passage at 33:59 Highlight the passage at 33:59

34:33 So Lama Tsongkhapa continues on page 265. It says that once you know well the mode of subsistence... Subsistence of the I with regard to which the discrimination of self-thinking I operates, you should apply its reasoning to all internal phenomena such as eyes and ears and external phenomena like pots. Report an error in the passage at 34:33 Highlight the passage at 34:33

34:57 By knowing them to be equivalent to it, you will be able to know and see the natural abode of all other phenomena. Through knowing and seeing the natural disposition of one phenomenon. So I've said this before, right? So conceptually, when we understand emptiness, right, we analyze one phenomenon, then we turn our attention to another, and then we turn our attention to another, and then another, and another. Report an error in the passage at 34:57 Highlight the passage at 34:57

35:28 But then, right, so we do that, and then we develop calm abiding, right? And on the basis of calm... Calm abiding, then we analyze using the analysis we've been doing all along. And then we develop special insight on that stable basis. Then we develop special insight realizing emptiness. And then at the same time we develop the union of calm abiding and special insight. Report an error in the passage at 35:28 Highlight the passage at 35:28

36:08 And we move to the second of the five paths, the path of preparation. And then we familiarize ourselves with that again and again, right? Union of Calm Abiding and Special Insight. Realizing emptiness again and again until what's called the mental image. When we have a conceptual realization of emptiness, we're realizing emptiness through a mental image, an image in our minds. Report an error in the passage at 36:08 Highlight the passage at 36:08

36:36 And we're not yet directly realizing emptiness. But through practice on the path of preparation, then that mental image slowly dissolves until we directly realize emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 36:36 Highlight the passage at 36:36

36:51 And when we directly realize emptiness, then we automatically realize the emptiness of all phenomena simultaneously. And we don't have to turn our minds individually to different objects. Report an error in the passage at 36:51 Highlight the passage at 36:51

37:05 So does that make sense? The difference between realizing something conceptually and realizing it directly. Report an error in the passage at 37:05 Highlight the passage at 37:05

37:15 So that's our practice, right? Sometimes we think, oh, okay, I'll go to an emptiness class for a while. I'll try to get the correct view of emptiness. And then that's it, right? And then we think, we don't really even think about what comes after that, right? But we'll be meditating on emptiness until we become a Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 37:15 Highlight the passage at 37:15

37:34 That's our work. Also compassion, six perfections, bodhicitta and all that. But our contemplation of emptiness, our meditation on emptiness doesn't stop until we become a Buddha. And our realization of emptiness just becomes stronger and stronger and stronger. And in that way then our mental afflictions are uprooted forever. Report an error in the passage at 37:34 Highlight the passage at 37:34

37:59 It's not like we get a direct realization of emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 37:59 Highlight the passage at 37:59

38:05 That's it, right? There's no more work to be done. Report an error in the passage at 38:05 Highlight the passage at 38:05

38:13 All right, so the next section is how do we actually generate the two views of selflessness, the selflessness of persons and the selflessness of phenomena. So first, the selflessness of persons. So what are persons? So persons aren't just human beings, right? Lama Tsongkhapa says those are the persons of the six classes, right? Gods, demigods, humans, animals. Report an error in the passage at 38:13 Highlight the passage at 38:13

38:39 Hungry ghosts, hell beings. So a dog is considered a person. Any being with a mind is considered a person in this context. Report an error in the passage at 38:39 Highlight the passage at 38:39

38:53 They also include ordinary beings as well as Arya beings, those beings who have directly realized emptiness, etc. Furthermore, they are the accumulators of white and black actions, the experiencers of the results of those. Revolvers in cyclic existence, cultivators of paths for the sake of liberation, attainers of liberation and so forth. Report an error in the passage at 38:53 Highlight the passage at 38:53

39:19 So there's a person that exists, there's a person that doesn't exist, a self that does exist and a self that doesn't exist. The self that does exist, there's a self that creates virtuous and non-virtuous karma, that experiences the result of that. There is a person or a self that revolves in cyclic existence, that takes rebirth, that dies, that takes rebirth. There is a person, a conventionally existent person that attains enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 39:19 Highlight the passage at 39:19

39:50 So it's not that there's no person at all. There is a person that exists. Report an error in the passage at 39:50 Highlight the passage at 39:50

39:59 Then Lama Tsongkhapa quotes Chandrakirti's Entrance to the Middle Way or Madhyamakavatara. Where Chandrakirti quotes a sūtra where it says the so-called self is a fiendish or devilish mind and you have come under the control of this view. The compositional aggregates are empty. There is no sentient being here. So the so-called self, the conception of a self of persons, the conception of an inherently existent person. Report an error in the passage at 39:59 Highlight the passage at 39:59

40:44 is a devilish mind, right? It's a harmful mind. It harms ourselves again and again in the short term and the long term, right? This belief in a real me, especially, right? Harms us, right? Gets irritated when we don't get what we want or when we encounter things we don't like. And we've come under the control or we are under the control of this view. The compositional aggregates are empty of a self. Report an error in the passage at 40:44 Highlight the passage at 40:44

41:17 So once again, the Prasangikas say the aggregates, the body and mind, there's no sentient being at all. There's no person at all on the aggregates. Report an error in the passage at 41:17 Highlight the passage at 41:17

41:31 The other schools say that the person is imputed, but the person can be found among the body and mind. There is a person that exists from its own side. Prasangikas say no. You can't find a person at all on the body and mind. The person is just imputed. So there's no person at all here. And this is so counter to our experience, right? There's no me here sitting among the body and the mind. Report an error in the passage at 41:31 Highlight the passage at 41:31

42:16 And that's the basis of our problems. We believe there's a real me here. There's a real essence of me. There's a real me that is being hurt. Report an error in the passage at 42:16 Highlight the passage at 42:16

42:37 There's a real me that is not being treated well. There's a real me that should be considered. There's a real me that deserved better. There's a real me that really wants to be happy. Report an error in the passage at 42:37 Highlight the passage at 42:37

43:06 Not just something imputed onto a bunch of particles and moments of consciousness, but a real me, right? So we'll do a little meditation later to try to distinguish between the conventionally existent me and the me that we believe so strongly exists but doesn't exist at all. Oh Report an error in the passage at 43:06 Highlight the passage at 43:06

43:41 yeah, so you have to... push the button, and you have to push and hold it, apparently, the light goes on. Report an error in the passage at 43:41 Highlight the passage at 43:41

44:00 So I think I missed something there. I think you made a transition and I missed it, sort of. Because you were saying that there's, I think you said that there's some part of us that accumulates karma, good action and bad action, that suffers, that seeks enlightenment, and then you said there is no such thing. Report an error in the passage at 44:00 Highlight the passage at 44:00

44:31 There's a transition. I'm trying to figure out how to reconcile the fact that I'm here studying Buddhism and I meditate and I'm trying to seek enlightenment to escape suffering and I'm trying to develop compassion for the suffering of others, but at the same time none of that is real. Then who is this person that is trying to get enlightened? At what level doesn't it exist? It exists on some level. Report an error in the passage at 44:31 Highlight the passage at 44:31

45:01 But there's a transition point there where I get lost. Okay. Who wants to answer that question? Report an error in the passage at 45:01 Highlight the passage at 45:01

45:10 We've been talking about that for a while. Report an error in the passage at 45:10 Highlight the passage at 45:10

45:20 Oh, no. I Report an error in the passage at 45:20 Highlight the passage at 45:20

45:25 think you just turned it off. Report an error in the passage at 45:25 Highlight the passage at 45:25

45:31 So a partial answer would be that at some level it's convention that we Report an error in the passage at 45:31 Highlight the passage at 45:31

45:43 all agree on these identities and we reinforce them to ourselves and to each other. question. Report an error in the passage at 45:43 Highlight the passage at 45:43

· · · silence, 1 minute

45:52 That's only a partial answer. Report an error in the passage at 45:52 Highlight the passage at 45:52

45:57 Maybe I share the question. Report an error in the passage at 45:57 Highlight the passage at 45:57

46:02 okay, so if I ask you, the me who attains enlightenment? Where do you think that me resides? Report an error in the passage at 46:02 Highlight the passage at 46:02

46:21 the same place as the me that suffers. So where is that me? Look for that me. Is it your brain? Report an error in the passage at 46:21 Highlight the passage at 46:21

46:31 Is it your heart? is the me attains enlightenment? Report an error in the passage at 46:31 Highlight the passage at 46:31

46:43 I understand it's hard to... Find that, unless you're in the middle of an affliction. No, we can even feel it now. We can feel it at will, actually, because we're so familiar with it. But we may not be able to distinguish that we're getting that. So the me, who Report an error in the passage at 46:43 Highlight the passage at 46:43

47:12 is the me that we think is going to get enlightened? Anybody. Who's the me that we think is going to get enlightened? I mean, just instinctively. The mind stream. Is it the mind stream? Report an error in the passage at 47:12 Highlight the passage at 47:12

47:33 But it's all right. It's all right. I just repeated what she said. The mind stream. Is that what people think? Is it the mind stream that's going to get enlightened? Report an error in the passage at 47:33 Highlight the passage at 47:33

47:48 Hillary says no. What Report an error in the passage at 47:48 Highlight the passage at 47:48

47:55 do other people think? Report an error in the passage at 47:55 Highlight the passage at 47:55

47:59 This is where it really gets... If we think about it ourselves, you can sit here and just listen to sounds coming out of my mouth forever, but when we actually try to articulate what we think, it's so useful. Report an error in the passage at 47:59 Highlight the passage at 47:59

48:17 So, the mind stream. One position is the mind stream. So you're saying that the me is the mind stream? The me that gets enlightened is the mind stream. Report an error in the passage at 48:17 Highlight the passage at 48:17

48:31 So basically that's another way of saying that the me is the mind stream. Report an error in the passage at 48:31 Highlight the passage at 48:31

48:48 When we Report an error in the passage at 48:48 Highlight the passage at 48:48

48:56 talk about imprints and blah blah and getting them on our mind stream and then the mind stream is what goes on, right? From life to life. Is the mind stream what goes on from life to life? I don't know. If I'm putting imprints on my mind stream and it doesn't go on then it's not really doing a whole lot of good. Report an error in the passage at 48:56 Highlight the passage at 48:56

49:24 So what is the mind stream? Is it a solid thing? It's Report an error in the passage at 49:24 Highlight the passage at 49:24

49:35 the non-me. Report an error in the passage at 49:35 Highlight the passage at 49:35

49:41 It's very useful to investigate this, right? Because the mind seems to be quite solid, doesn't it? I don't think of the mind stream as something not necessarily like that's my mind. I kind of almost feel like it is, but I don't really have... Report an error in the passage at 49:41 Highlight the passage at 49:41

50:06 access to it and Because if I had total access to it and I would know all my past lives and I would know what's on it know other than just Report an error in the passage at 50:06 Highlight the passage at 50:06

50:17 day-to-day mind I would recognize that I have imprints on it and I don't feel like it's something that I really have Report an error in the passage at 50:17 Highlight the passage at 50:17

50:29 Shantideva, His Holiness the Dalai Lama Report an error in the passage at 50:29 Highlight the passage at 50:29

50:43 If I'm dead and all my humanness dies, then something goes on to take the karma and move it along. Unless there's a little karma car, a little karma vehicle. Whatever that karma vehicle, I'm then thinking that that is the mind stream. It's taking that karma and then eventually that karma will become liberated. Report an error in the passage at 50:43 Highlight the passage at 50:43

51:19 Get to work on the rest of these people. That is as close of any kind of idea to how that happens that I have. Okay. What do other people think? Do they agree with Leslie? Is that what goes from life to life? Is the mind stream? Is that the me who goes from life to life and gets enlightened? Is the mind stream? It sounds to me like the concept that we... Report an error in the passage at 51:19 Highlight the passage at 51:19

51:53 We talked about briefly the mind basis of all in the mind-only school and that actually resonated with me a lot when I read it. I'm kind of like, okay, I think this is where I need to stop because this sounds right to me. I kind of need something structural. But it sounds like something like that, like some mind basis of all that underlies all of consciousness that you don't have total access to. Report an error in the passage at 51:53 Highlight the passage at 51:53

52:20 Maybe don't wave the microphone. But does transfer from life to life. I mean, I have to admit, I think that way. Okay. All right. Yeah, I don't. And I have trouble pushing beyond that. I think that's very honest. That's very, very good. I mean, we don't all have to be at the prasangika level now, right? I mean, it's very useful to stop where we feel comfortable, right? Report an error in the passage at 52:20 Highlight the passage at 52:20

52:45 Because that makes a lot of sense, right? A mind basis of all that holds the karmic seeds that goes from life to life. Something really substantial that goes from life to life. That makes sense to many of our minds. But before I move on, I want to hear what other people think. Report an error in the passage at 52:45 Highlight the passage at 52:45

53:13 What is the me that goes from life to life? It's merely imputed by the mind. Report an error in the passage at 53:13 Highlight the passage at 53:13

53:23 It's what we read every week in the Heart Sūtra. So what does that mean? No mind element. So what does that mean? What is that? An imputation gets enlightened? Very Report an error in the passage at 53:23 Highlight the passage at 53:23

53:50 difficult question. Report an error in the passage at 53:50 Highlight the passage at 53:50

53:55 Effie. I haven't been around for really long time, so I should just stay out of this. But I thought that there was a very, very subtle, subtle energy that goes from life to life that basically is just the karmic imprints. Just like a little echo left that continues on. And I think Hillary should go into detail. I Report an error in the passage at 53:55 Highlight the passage at 53:55

54:27 think we should not use our names. You can use an alias. Cindy. The non-name. Actually, you can really get to see the object of refutation, right, when we don't want to be identified. Report an error in the passage at 54:27 Highlight the passage at 54:27

54:54 I don't know, you know, I just, whenever I look at it, like, you know, I can't find the self when I'm looking at it, and yet, I Report an error in the passage at 54:54 Highlight the passage at 54:54

55:09 don't know, you can kind of see certain functions happening, you can see things happening, and I vaguely remember, and this is where my understanding gets so vague, but Geshe-la recently saying that, like, Well, even if the thing doesn't exist, you know, it's like an illusion. You can see that there are results from your actions or something along those lines and so you go about your everyday life living as if these things are real and that's why we seek enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 55:09 Highlight the passage at 55:09

55:49 It made sense coming from him. Report an error in the passage at 55:49 Highlight the passage at 55:49

55:56 But yeah, it's very hard to put together the self that I live with every day and then the one that I can't find when I look for it. Impossible. Report an error in the passage at 55:56 Highlight the passage at 55:56

56:10 Not impossible. Not impossible. Slowly, slowly. But when I try to find any words for it, then I realize that my understanding is pretty shallow. Report an error in the passage at 56:10 Highlight the passage at 56:10

56:25 Work in process. You know, it's, yeah. At times I think I have some understanding, but not when I talk about it. Well, that's what makes it so useful to talk about it, right? Report an error in the passage at 56:25 Highlight the passage at 56:25

56:40 Because I find this understanding of emptiness, like sometimes, like as you say, you think, oh yeah, I get it. And then it's elusive, right? You try to pin it down, it's like, what is that again? You know, it just kind of slips through. So we just have to keep working at it and accumulate merit, purify. Report an error in the passage at 56:40 Highlight the passage at 56:40

57:03 So a lot of what we've said here, does anybody else have anything they want to add? Report an error in the passage at 57:03 Highlight the passage at 57:03

57:14 Helps us understand the lower schools. Report an error in the passage at 57:14 Highlight the passage at 57:14

57:23 Because a lot of what you've said are assertions by the lower schools. The mind stream is what goes from life to life. A lot of the lower schools say it's the mental consciousness that goes from life to life. Or it's a subtle level of the mental consciousness that goes from life to life that is the person. Report an error in the passage at 57:23 Highlight the passage at 57:23

57:45 Right? That's what a lot of us think, right? I mean, this is an advanced view too, right? It's not something that you ask somebody on the street, right? And they'll understand. But if we really think about it, then it's very hard to let go of that, right? That's what really makes sense to our minds, that there's a mental consciousness or a subtle mental consciousness or a mind basis of all, some kind of a mind that goes from life to life that is the I, right? Report an error in the passage at 57:45 Highlight the passage at 57:45

58:13 That is the person. A real substance that holds the karmic seeds that goes from life to life. Like there's a thread that goes from life to life that we call the mind stream or that we call the mind basis of all or we call this very subtle mind. And those are all still hanging on to substantial existence. Report an error in the passage at 58:13 Highlight the passage at 58:13

58:45 Those are all still hanging on to a subtle level of grasping at inherent existence. Like there is something going from life to life. Some common thread goes from life to life. Report an error in the passage at 58:45 Highlight the passage at 58:45

59:14 So this is where, and I keep repeating this example because I am not able to come up with a better one, at least for my mind. Report an error in the passage at 59:14 Highlight the passage at 59:14

59:25 So we think that the person there is... There's this thread that goes from life to life all the way until enlightenment. Something, mind stream or subtle mind or mind basis. Whereas Report an error in the passage at 59:25 Highlight the passage at 59:25

59:47 in contrast, thinking about once again the storm, the wind starting up in the middle of the ocean, the rain, movement. Changes in temperature, hurricane Report an error in the passage at 59:47 Highlight the passage at 59:47

1:00:17 developing, rising, falling, travels, hundreds of miles. What is that thing that goes from the beginning to the end that is the storm? Report an error in the passage at 1:00:17 Highlight the passage at 1:00:17

1:00:39 Hurricane. There is no, I mean there is no thing, right? We can see, I mean we can see with... The storm, right? They're constantly changing causes and conditions that we label storm, that we label something. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:39 Highlight the passage at 1:00:39

1:01:04 There's no thread going from the beginning of the storm to the end. There's no real essence. There's nothing substantial. It's just constantly changing causes and conditions that we impute one thing, person. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:04 Highlight the passage at 1:01:04

1:01:29 Constantly changing causes and conditions that we impute a person. Constantly changing causes and conditions, right? That's all. This is constantly changing causes and conditions that the mind, the conceptual mind, imputes a person. It imputes me. No thread. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:29 Highlight the passage at 1:01:29

1:01:59 No substance that's constantly changing, right? Lower schools say there's a substance that's constantly changing. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:59 Highlight the passage at 1:01:59

1:02:13 But Prasangikas would say there's air, there are thoughts, there are perceptions, there are feelings. And we impute mind on that. We impute person on that. But there's no substance going from life to life and it's getting enlightened. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:13 Highlight the passage at 1:02:13

1:02:39 I get that, and so I had this thought while you were talking, and I thought maybe if I verbalize it, it'll help me. Is it possible that the problem isn't so much the conception of the self, or sorry, let me take that back. Is the challenge that we look at birth and death as hard stops, a beginning and an end? Report an error in the passage at 1:02:39 Highlight the passage at 1:02:39

1:03:13 And if we were able to change how we perceived those points in life, we might be able to take the metaphor of the storm and see it as being something that passed through and wasn't so affected by birth and death. Does that make sense? Probably not. I Report an error in the passage at 1:03:13 Highlight the passage at 1:03:13

1:03:39 think in a sense that would help. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:39 Highlight the passage at 1:03:39

1:03:50 I don't think that will get to the real, the deepest point though. Because even without birth and death, I still think that there is a substance, a real me that goes from yesterday till today, until tomorrow. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:50 Highlight the passage at 1:03:50

1:04:07 That that person who treated me badly yesterday, treated the same person as me now, right? Treated the person, even though that person treated me... Badly, a whole 24 hours ago, I still think that was me, the same me, as right this moment. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:07 Highlight the passage at 1:04:07

1:04:32 That's part of it. So, birth and death, yes, are big. But even without that, we have that strong sense. Real me going from moment to moment. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:32 Highlight the passage at 1:04:32

1:04:55 So, I mean, that's the challenge, right? This is very difficult. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:55 Highlight the passage at 1:04:55

1:05:04 But anyway, that's the Prasangika position, right? And we understand, I think the more we understand the Prasangika position, the more we understand why it's so hard to realize, right? That it's not just a matter of labels, right? It goes much, much deeper than, okay, that wood isn't a table, okay, but we could call it a, you know, something else, but it's real, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:05:04 Highlight the passage at 1:05:04

1:05:37 I guess I'm trying to reconcile. I get that and I think that I... I see the value in loosening up my conception of I. It's constantly changing. I'm not the same person yesterday or today. My cells are constantly changing. All that is really helpful and I see how it can eliminate all the afflictions and stuff. But what I'm trying to reconcile is within the Buddhist philosophy, it seemed predominantly this notion of karma, because if Jeremy's actions in this lifetime can influence... Report an error in the passage at 1:05:37 Highlight the passage at 1:05:37

1:06:15 The nature of his future rebirths, it seems to me like something must pass. And I don't know what prasankas would characterize that as. But then they also talk about how so-and-so is the reincarnation of so-and-so. And we knew that because of the toys that he liked to play with when he was very young. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:15 Highlight the passage at 1:06:15

1:06:34 So what was it that passed from this fellow who's now dead to this child? If there's nothing there... to carry nothing passive, if nothing substantial, how can we recognize this person as the reincarnation of this person? That's the trick, right? That's difficult to understand, right? With the storm, think about it. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:34 Highlight the passage at 1:06:34

1:06:58 The storm, it says a bird flapping its wings, right, in the middle of the ocean will affect that storm, right? And... And the result of that will carry on to when it hits land. But is there a substance in the storm? Causes and conditions, yes, every cause and condition changes the continuum. It will change the result. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:58 Highlight the passage at 1:06:58

1:07:34 Every condition will change the result, whether the sun is shining, whether it's raining, what temperature it is, how many birds are flapping their wings in the sky, whether or not we're hitting land, whether we're passing over salt water or fresh water, everything changes. And similarly with karma, everything that we do, everything that we think, everything that we say will change. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:34 Highlight the passage at 1:07:34

1:08:03 change the future result. that doesn't mean that there's a real substance. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:03 Highlight the passage at 1:08:03

1:08:15 I'm, you know, I'm just saying the words right now, and we'll, we have to think about it, right? Because that's a really hard thing to let go of, right? a really hard thing to let go Report an error in the passage at 1:08:15 Highlight the passage at 1:08:15

1:08:30 For Report an error in the passage at 1:08:30 Highlight the passage at 1:08:30

1:08:34 me Report an error in the passage at 1:08:34 Highlight the passage at 1:08:34

1:08:39 personally, the way I kind of resolve that karma thing, because I really don't get it. I don't see it. But I don't feel like I need to see it because I'm not attached to the notion of being reborn or a future life or something like that. It's enough for me to know that the actions that I have now do have future repercussions for other sentient beings that will come after me. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:39 Highlight the passage at 1:08:39

1:09:06 And I care about that for some reason. I care about that. And so I would like to make the world a better place as time goes forward. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:06 Highlight the passage at 1:09:06

1:09:16 Maybe I will be reincarnated as a particular being, or maybe I'll be reincarnated as echoes in a hundred beings. I don't know how it works, but it's enough for me to understand that part, so that's how I think about it. Because I don't see it in the specific concrete terms that we're talking about. I don't understand how that would work. But that's how I resolve it. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:16 Highlight the passage at 1:09:16

1:09:39 I get cause and effect, I believe that, and that's enough. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:39 Highlight the passage at 1:09:39