← Lobsang Chokyi

Discovering Buddhism - Intro to Tantra (11 August 2011)

Lobsang Chokyi · 11 August 2011 · 2 h · Tse Chen Ling via Internet Archive

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  • 5:38

    We'll talk about Tantra, these techniques that the Buddha handed down to us to completely cleanse our minds, our bodies, our karma of all these old habitual habits that we've had for lifetime after lifetime after lifetime so that each one of us can, in our own time, connect with these teachings, put them into practice and embody them so

  • 10:34

    I'm so excited to read it and, you know, to hear about the differences between Tantra and standard Buddhist teaching and this whole idea of harnessing desire and, you know, the pointlessness of guilt. Really refreshing and very exciting. That's one of those old habits, isn't it, that just stays with us, the guilt habit. Yeah, it feels like this is as far from Catholicism as you can go. And I'm like, yes! But you know, it's interesting because with guilt, I have to catch myself and just, like Lama Zopa Rinpoche one time just said, it's just a negative mind too.

  • 28:17

    I mean, they say up to 12 years. I've only known one person to take that long to find a root guru in the modern age. But I think it behooves us to take more than one teaching. For example, or something like that, like to really, to take as much time and energy as we can before you call somebody in your head, my guru, my lama, my main teacher, you know, because it's a big step in Buddhism.

  • 1:18:50

    So the vase initiation is the first one and that initiates the yoga into being able to do the deity yoga. That deity yoga blesses the body and it plants the seed for the nirmanakaya or the emanation body. The nirmanakaya or the emanation body of the Buddha. I'll say that again.

  • 1:44:47

    The main idea is that in front of you or at the crown of your head, you visualize the main meditational deity. In this case, it's going to be Guru Shakyamuni. Looking at something like that, but not solid. Made of light, woman, made of light. And often you're also envisioning the different lineage.

0:00 Start doing the nine rounds of breathing. Report an error

0:07 by fire. Report an error

0:14 Right, no, but that's good. I mean, at least he was We got John to come and look. You weren't here, Gina's not here, Jessica's not here, you guys are all the ones that are like the most recently changed. Report an error

0:53 Okay, so we're going to start with the nine round breathing that we did in class together last week and you can, hopefully you guys have been practicing a little bit too. You can do whichever one you would rather. Is there anybody who wasn't here last week? Oh, you guys are all here. No. Oh, you guys, you weren't here either. Report an error

1:12 I'm sorry. Well, I have the description in the homework. Did you ask me for the homework? I don't remember. I remember I sent it to Henry, right? Anyway, okay, I'll show you His Holinesses. This would be dangerous. I'm a little close to that. I'll do it right here. I'll show you the one that His Holiness showed us in D.C. Report an error

1:42 I probably won't go through the other one. I don't have my notes for the other one, but if you get the homework from last week, then it'll have the description. It's a little bit more thinking about which side is which in terms of what kind of obstacles you're purifying. So you're purifying your anger, hatred, then it's your right side, and if it's your desire, attachment, it's your left side. Report an error

2:07 But with His Holiness, it's just all physical, so I really like it. So I'll show you. I'm in my head too much of the time. It's nice to have just physical. So I'll show you His Holiness. Not nearly as well as His Holiness did it to him, but I'll try my best. Okay, so making a Vajra fist with both of your fists, starting with them right in front of you, and then traveling up and out. Report an error

2:36 And then starting on your left side. Don't hurt the person next to you. Having this hand just below the pit. And then bringing it to your right side. Closing the right side nostril and breathing in. And then covering the left and breathing out. Report an error

3:17 Just relax your hands. Report an error

3:25 I've been doing the opposite side. Report an error

3:30 Covering the left side. And Report an error

· · ·

4:04 having your fists in your lap like this. And breathing in. Keeping them clenched. Report an error

4:38 Turn to normal. Report an error

4:55 And then we'll just start with a simple motivation for the class tonight. Report an error

5:08 In the same way that we just did this exercise to cleanse and clear all the obstacles we might have in our subtle body and mind of impure energy, ordinary parents, whatever it is that keeps us from getting in touch with who we really are. Report an error

5:34 We should be really happy to come back together again tonight. We'll talk about Tantra, these techniques that the Buddha handed down to us to Report an error

5:46 completely cleanse our minds, our bodies, our karma of all these old habitual habits that we've had for lifetime after lifetime after lifetime so Report an error

6:02 that each one of us can, in our own time, connect with these teachings, put them into practice and embody them so Report an error

6:16 that we too can become Enlightened beings, we can become Buddhas and Report an error

6:25 perfect our own happiness at the same time as we perfect the happiness of all beings. Report an error

6:48 We'll start with the opening. Report an error

7:10 With the wish to free all beings, I shall always go for refuge to Buddha, Dharma and Saṅgha until I reach full enlightenment. Inspired by wisdom and compassion, today in the Buddha's presence, I generate the mind of full awakening. For the benefit of all sentient beings, as long as space remains, as long as sentient beings remain, until then may I too remain and dispel the miseries of the world. Report an error

7:51 Jessica, there's a seat on that side in the back. Oh, Gina's here. How did you get here? Did you get the envelope? You didn't need it? Report an error

8:03 Oh, good. She was held hostage at work. She didn't have any money to get here. Report an error

8:14 All right, so let's take a moment to check in if anybody has any comments or questions about the meditation that you guys did or maybe the nine round breathing or make sure it's on. I don't think it is. So just slowly, yeah, give it a second. Report an error

8:43 And then look, it turns sort of orange and then it, there it goes. Report an error

8:49 I asked this a while ago, but I read a book from the Bond tradition, and then I read another one from the Sochin tradition this week, and they both said that in men and women the channels are reversed. So I was wondering if we think they are, if we don't know. I think at our level it's probably okay. I have heard various things according to that, but nothing that I can comment on at this point. Report an error

9:20 A lot of times in the Bund tradition things are completely the opposite. So be careful reading things in the Bund tradition because sometimes you can actually leave it on as long as it's not pointed at the speaker. If it's pointed away from the speaker then you're okay but otherwise it can reverb. Yeah, you can leave it but just be careful pointing it at the speaker. Report an error

9:46 Yeah, often it'll be sort of the reverse of Buddhist. Just to be careful in reading something like that. But I have heard that before, actually, that men's and women's channels are different. But I think at our level, it's not going to affect, you know, doing like the nine round, I don't think it will affect. Report an error

10:03 Yeah. It's interesting. Anybody else? Any questions? I can say you can ask questions, but I can't say them necessarily. I can answer them. But you can ask all you want. Report an error

10:23 Well, I just wanted to say that after all these years, reading the text is so exciting for me and I just kind of lit up like, oh my God, this is it. I'm so excited to read it and, you know, to hear about the differences between Tantra and standard Buddhist teaching and this whole idea of harnessing desire and, you know, the pointlessness of guilt. Report an error

10:50 Really refreshing and very exciting. That's one of those old habits, isn't it, that just stays with us, the guilt habit. Yeah, it feels like this is as far from Catholicism as you can go. And I'm like, yes! But you know, it's interesting because with guilt, I have to catch myself and just, like Lama Zopa Rinpoche one time just said, it's just a negative mind too. Report an error

11:16 So just to catch yourself and just say, now this is another negative mind that's on top of the one that it's responding to. So just to see it as that, no different than jealousy or depression or anger or hatred or something. Report an error

11:31 It's just another negative mind. Regret is something different. Regret is something different. So honest, intelligent regret based on some sort of understanding of how karma works is very different. And that's okay to have. That's considered a virtuous mind. But guilt, guilt is more paralyzing. You know, oh God, I did it again. I'm always doing that. Oh, you know. Or, you know, it just sort of traps us in a certain space. Report an error

11:58 Whereas regret is like the beginning of doing the four opponent powers and purifying something and then getting rid of it. Which is, yeah, that's just really healthy. Good point. Anybody else? Anything else? I think we can all relate to that. That Ravina said is that, because I asked her that question once about guilt because I often felt like I had a problem with that, you know, and not skillfully using regret, I guess. Report an error

12:31 And she was pointing out that guilt is really a very selfish mind, a very self-centered mind. And so it enforces the ego also. So I just... Because it's very much about like, I am terrible, I this, I that, rather than regret, which just kind of acknowledges that wasn't really the right thing, now I'm going to do this and move on. Report an error

12:52 That's right. So I just thought I would add that to the year. Report an error

12:58 Yeah, regret sort of has a different object in a way. It's like it is for others and you are just like, you're simply acknowledging it and moving on rather than dwelling on it. trying I found it helpful to way. Yeah, yeah, me too. I think the paralysis thing also, if you really begin examining, which is of course, this is the Buddhist practice to take these different states of mind and to examine them and to really try to apply. Report an error

13:34 This is part of what our practice is. It's really nothing other than that. But looking at these states of mind that we feel like we know inside and out, right? Because we've had them since we were little, you know? But if we look at them with new eyes, more like scientific eyes, and really try to examine them a little bit, like what does guilt feel like, what does it make me feel like in my body, what does it then produce in me, how quickly do I get over, am I ready to then, you know, do I do anything constructive with it or do I just kind of... Report an error

14:02 So you just kind of examine something that you've had over and over again like guilt or depression or anything, anger and... How does it feel when I have it? What does it make me say and do? What are the next ramifications or consequences of it? It's very interesting just to begin to analyze what we do on a daily basis like that. Report an error

14:23 And that's how we get rid of them. Eventually, like I've said in other classes, it's like you catch yourself falling into it and maybe three days later you're able to let it go. And then it's like maybe... You know, one day later and then maybe three hours later and then maybe, you know, as you're in it or just after you've had the mental affliction attack and then, you know, eventually at some point it's as it's coming out of your mouth and then eventually the most exciting moment is you keep it from happening. Report an error

15:00 You know, you actually keep yourself from going into a mental affliction attack like guilt or something like that. Going off topic here, but never off topic enough. This is our practice. A lot of times we get really excited by the Tantra studies, but Tantra is all about this too. We can't become a Buddha without examining our mind. Report an error

15:22 There's no shortcut. Chuck, I had a quick question. Sometimes I feel like I'm stuck on the renunciation. I can't get past that part. Is it that letting go, when you let go of the guilt, let go of anger, is that? Report an error

15:39 renunciation or his? Renunciation is really getting it that saṃsāra sucks. Report an error

15:53 And that we're never going to make it better. While we're in saṃsāra, we're never going to make it better. But there is something better outside of saṃsāra. And that you want to go for that. So that going for it is... you know Report an error

16:08 Is renunciation. Because there are other times that we realize that saṃsāra sucks. And we don't hold on to that and we don't continue to act on it. It might momentarily happen when people or animals or loved ones die. Or we have some really horrible thing happen like our house burns down or something like that. Report an error

16:31 So we might get it then and then we might up the practice for a little bit and then we forget and then we... Try again to make saṃsāra work. But when we finally get it in some really big way, that changes how we act and how we practice based on that and also based on knowing that there's something better. Report an error

16:55 So we've got to have both of those. That's when we have renunciation. But yeah, it's partly letting go of that. I mean, they say, you know, what we're renouncing is the suffering. We get suffering from guilt. Yeah, that's what sometimes to the extent that I'm able to let something go. That almost feels like renunciation. Yeah, well, it's definitely at the beginning. Report an error

17:21 Yeah, it's definitely the beginning. You're letting it go. It's like that... Example that I used in either last class or the one before, well when I was talking about renunciation I was talking about that one teacher of mine said we have to learn to let go of the little tiny dripping cone in order to get the big old juicy sundae. Report an error

17:43 So we're letting go of this thing that we thought was like so fantastic because there really is something better. Report an error

17:53 Yeah, so it has to have sort of both of those. of those edges around those qualities. Anybody else? Report an error

18:07 I feel so fortunate that all these questions because this week I was trying to see a little bit more about my reactions. I feel guilty sometimes, but then I said I'm going to observe that guilty. Instead of feeling, I was observing my reaction. What I did after I done something, you know, very interesting because the guilty, you know, I didn't feel guilty anymore. Report an error

18:43 I said, okay, yes, they said we have to observe the reaction or when that arise, the guilty or the feeling that we're having, you know, instead of get it deeper or let it go as I used to do it. Right. Very interesting. all the questions that I heard today I Answer my own questions. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's what's so useful, isn't it? Because sometimes you don't even, either you don't want to bring it up or you don't even have the words to bring it up, but somebody else brings it up and you're like, oh yeah, yeah. Report an error

19:18 Yeah, I mean, I think we aren't going to become perfect overnight. I mean, I hate to break the news to you guys, sorry. So if you have a Klesha attack, you know, a mental affliction attack, the less that you identify it as you, And the less that you allow these sort of counterproductive adjunct afflictions to arise like guilt or self-hatred, or at least to examine them when they do, then you can kind of get to the real meat of it, which is whatever the initial Klesha attack was, you know, right? Report an error

19:55 So if, for example, you have a hissy fit because the fax machine doesn't work. A lot for a couple hours, which kind of happened to me this week. It really helps to not feel like you're a horrible person, because then you get caught up with that, right? You don't even get to the main thing. You just get caught up with, I'm a horrible person, or a nun shouldn't do this, or I'm really guilty because blah, blah, because you're not even getting to the main thing. Report an error

20:25 And then if you don't have that, which fortunately I didn't in this case, You can just get to it. You can kind of examine it. You can do a timeout. And then you can move on. And it doesn't have to take up days and days of your life the way it has, for me anyway, in the past. It can take up days, weeks, I mean years. People are separated by hatred, right, for like 35 years because they can't look at their mind, you know. Report an error

20:49 They can't look at whatever happened and not identify it so strongly. And I'm simplifying it because I don't necessarily know. What keeps people from communicating? But I know in my own life I've seen a real change by not giving in to that old familiar friend guilt and instead just working with whatever the other one is that arose because all guilt does is keeps us from working with the initial cletia. Report an error

21:17 We've got to rip them all out. So it's almost like... Guilt is like the kudzu that covers the other stuff, and you just have to rip out the guilt first, and then you see all this other stuff. And none of it is you. None of it is the essential nature of Marcella. It's not, you know? Like, she's a Buddha. So, yeah, which is, those are all different techniques to work on the mind, too. Report an error

21:48 I'm so glad. That's great. Thank you for sharing it. So I want to start with something. A little bit about the secrecy of Tantra, because especially since we're doing this like completely open introduction to Tantra. No, I actually am bringing this up based on what happened the first time I taught this. People were talking about different Tantric experiences that they had had in the class, which we really are not supposed to do. Report an error

22:22 And I think it gets harder in this day and age not to talk about it because especially like everyone's running down to see His Holiness is Saki Treason, right? Everyone's going to Kalachakra, you know, and you're all, oh, are you going? Are you going? You know, and so we have to be really careful about that. We can say that we're going because obviously you're leaving town for X amount of days or whatever, but you don't have to say what level you attended. Report an error

22:50 You never have to say what level you attended. And better if it's not something that's so obvious like actually leaving town and staying at a hotel somewhere. Report an error

23:02 Better not to even talk about it at all. You might pick a good Dharma friend in the class and talk about it because you want to suss out where you are or you might talk with me about it to suss out whether or not you feel ready to take it. But ultimately it's your own decision in your own heart and that's great. Report an error

23:20 None of the rest of us ever need to know. Nobody needs to know what level you've ever taken. Now if you're at the initiation and you see another friend at the initiation and you know that they're taking it, which is of course hard, but you probably do at certain levels, certain empowerments are not given as a blessing. Report an error

23:42 So if that person has stayed in the room... And is taking the implements. You can probably make some assumption. And if you then want to, because that person then becomes your Vajra brother or sister, and you might talk to them about their practices in order to give yourself support. That's okay. What I'm talking about is unnecessary talk about it in a public place that might confuse people or they might get the wrong idea or they might, you know, so you just have to just think about. Report an error

24:11 The benefit. Is there benefit in my talking about this publicly? The other thing is it sort of just dilutes the energy. And that happens, that's true for our Dharma practice in general. Like if you're going to do something like go on a long retreat or even take robes, get ordained. Again, you talk about it with like a couple friends or something, but to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah with everyone dilutes the energy of it. Report an error

24:39 So any kind of like a... A big virtuous thing like that may be better to keep in your heart and just discuss with your teacher or maybe a couple close friends or something like that. Report an error

24:53 And it feels better too. It's not so much that you're keeping a big secret, it's just more that it's a private experience. And that's ultimately what tantra is, is a private experience. We talk a lot, we're talking a lot about the various externals, but the main thing that happens in tantric practice is internal. Report an error

25:12 And especially when we get into highest yoga tantra. That's really the main thing. So we're going to talk tonight about the relationship with the guru and also what happens at initiation in a general way, obviously. Report an error

25:29 And the main thing that happens is internal. And that's hard to remember at a highest yoga tantra empowerment because there is a lot going on. And Geshe-la is always like, it doesn't matter if people are running around with trays of things and you didn't get this or whatever. You keep your mind as much as you can on the guru, what he's saying and what you're supposed to be visualizing. Or you might have gotten the string, you might have gotten the kusha grass, but you didn't take the empowerment. Report an error

26:00 So you've got to really stick with whatever he or she is saying. Try your best to visualize that. And it almost always includes bliss. Let me warn you in advance. If you can't remember anything else, just remember to experience bliss. Because there's a lot of craziness going on and it does get really distracting. Report an error

26:21 So, oh, I think we're going to need one more cushion. Thank you. Oh, no, it's okay. Yeah. This is a problem we like to have. We like to have too many people. I think we didn't set up as many cushions. I never know how many. Report an error

26:44 I think she had dental work today. She probably needs four. Report an error

26:52 Huge purification, Anne. you want to just, yeah, maybe so. Report an error

26:57 Actually, they do say that. In retreat, they say if all these dental problems come up, I wonder what that is, but they say that that is a sign of really strong purification. Report an error

27:08 It might be like raining on your wedding or something. They're just trying to make you feel better, but I have heard that. Report an error

27:20 Oh, no, that's good. Somebody else could come in that I can't remember is even in the class, so that's pretty good. Then you get the side of my head, sorry. Report an error

27:34 Okay. So we're going to talk about... We're not really going to talk so much about developing the relationship with a qualified teacher. That's the subject of a whole other class. I think it's the fourth class of the Discovering Buddhism series. But we will talk a little bit tonight about finding what's called a Vajra master. Report an error

28:04 When you find a qualified spiritual teacher, according to the Buddha's instructions, there's this whole long list of qualities to be looking for. And we're supposed to check up for a long time. I mean, they say up to 12 years. I've only known one person to take that long to find a root guru in the modern age. Report an error

28:28 But I think it behooves us to take more than one teaching. For example, or something like that, like to really, to take as much time and energy as we can before you call somebody in your head, my guru, my lama, my main teacher, you know, because it's a big step in Buddhism. A Vajra Master is even bigger. It's even bigger because we're, well, I mean, calling somebody a root guru is the biggest, you know, and that person could be all of those things, you know. Report an error

28:59 So we talk about that in the spiritual teacher class, that you could have. You could attend an informational talk and then see that person as your teacher and then see that person as your main teacher and then decide to take tantra from that person, all from the same person. It is possible. And that's actually a nice sequence to go in, rather than immediately going and taking tantra from somebody that we've never heard speak or don't know anything about, which unfortunately happens a lot in the West, even within the FPMT, and it's not so great. Report an error

29:33 So think before you leap. But a qualified Vajra master has additional lists. So there's all the lists for sūtra, and then there's additional lists of what to look out for for a tantric teacher as well. Report an error

29:51 And so you need to know what it is that you're getting involved in. And the main thing is you need to be able to see that guru as a Buddha for you. Report an error

30:05 So it can't be so far-fetched for you when the Buddha says, and now you have to see the Master as Yamantaka or something like that. You can't be like, whoa, no. It can't be that kind of reaction. It has to be like, well, okay, I don't have the karma right now, but I know his or her qualities, and so it's not that big of a leap for me to kind of at least attempt to visualize here. Report an error

30:31 And you're not going to find all of that out. Through books or through the internet, you know. You have to look at their students. You have to know something about their lineage. You have to know, you have to sort of watch them. You have to watch them. And that's true for all teachers in Buddhism. You have to watch them teaching and you have to watch them a little bit in life. Report an error

30:53 You know, what is, how do they live their life? So the main reason, the main practice within The tantra that you get into after you take an initiation from a Vajra master or a guru is what's called deity yoga or guru yoga. Report an error

31:18 And this is a process that I sort of give you little tastes of with the meditations that we do. We're at the end of the meditation. The deity or the, you know, who is in essence your guru comes to the crown of your head and dissolves into you. Report an error

31:35 What's happening in that situation is you're eliminating all those qualities that you don't want in yourself, especially your self-cherishing, and you're beginning to identify more and more and more with their qualities. So they have to have qualities that you want. That's a really big one on your list. If you're shopping for a guru, they need to have qualities. Report an error

32:03 That you also want because for better or for worse, you will become like them. That's a quote. I think from, I can't remember if it's a teacher or a saṅgha, but for better or for worse, you will become like them. Report an error

32:22 So that's something to think about too. So there Report an error

32:31 are two levels of guru within Tantra. I mean, I think this is also true in... In sūtra teachings in regular Buddhism as well, but I think it's especially true in Tantra. The first is what's called the relative or the objective guru, and that's the teacher, that one that you've picked out. Report an error

32:58 And then on the subjective level, it's our own inner wisdom. So that's the one that we may not quite, that takes a while. Report an error

33:14 And so we use the external guru to reach that one. We use that external guru as the bridge to our own wisdom. So Lama Yeshe, another quote. Lama Yeshe said, practically speaking, there is only so much the relative external guru can do for us. He or she cannot guarantee that we gain insight and realizations. Report an error

33:49 But our inner guru, our own clear wisdom can accomplish everything. The practice of guru yoga, therefore, is primarily a method for learning how to listen to this inner guru. Report an error

34:06 So it is a slow process, I think, of beginning to recognize and to listen to this inner guru because I think our habitual inner mind is chatter and self-criticism. I mean, it might be external, other thing criticism too, but if we have a critical mind, then it usually comes back to us first that we're criticizing ourselves. Report an error

34:33 So what we're trying to eliminate through these practices is that mind of self-critic and that constant chatter. So the concentration is helping to eliminate the constant chatter. That self-critical, self-pity mind is eliminated with these other practices. Especially guru yoga. Report an error

34:58 And knowing this, why do we need an external guru? Because sometimes people just want to jump straight to the inner guru and skip the outer guru. But the external guru is what makes everything come alive for us. If we really see somebody embodying the teachings in a live, living, juicy way, that's what makes the teachings come alive for us. Report an error

35:22 That's what inspires us to practice. You know, reading a book can be great. Watching a film can be great. But nothing is going to inspire you like a teacher who knows your mind and is able to help you know your mind. I mean, that's just everything comes alive. So we have to have that experience of working with a teacher directly. And we don't know how they work entirely. Report an error

35:51 And it's never what you expect. And when I'm teaching them, The spiritual teacher class, it's always sort of like there's this kind of fuzzy, warm and fuzzy idea that we think, especially in the West, we have this sort of warm and fuzzy idea of what working with a teacher is going to be like. No, it's not always comfortable. In fact, it's rarely comfortable because they're making us look at our own minds. They want us to get enlightened. Report an error

36:19 And so it can sometimes be quite uncomfortable, but it's also exciting. know, But it's not always like curling up at Santa's feet. And I think that's kind of this idea that maybe, I don't know, that maybe it's going to be like Moses and we're going to sort of gather around and wait for pearls of wisdom, but we won't really have to examine ourselves too fully. Report an error

36:48 It has to be incredibly active on our part. Teachers can't teach us. I mean, they won't even come to us if we're not ready. Report an error

36:57 And that's true for all of Buddhism. We can attend a class, but if we are open, we'll be able to receive the teachings and we'll be able to run with them. But if not, we can attend so many teachings. We can actually attend too many teachings. And this is a problem that if we haven't taken the time to actually integrate the teachings, it can become dangerous to just listen to the teachings over and over. Report an error

37:27 This is something that Tenzin Chokyi brought up in one of her classes one time, and I was really thinking about it. Because, you know, there are three main methods to make our minds the Dharma. Report an error

37:40 Meditating is the third. Contemplating is the second. And we skip that one a lot. And listening. Our studying is the first. A lot of times in the West, if we do anything, it's that one. And we sometimes listen to the same teaching over and over in the car, right? Or walking or on our bikes, you know? We'll listen to the same teaching over and over and over again because now we have the capacity to download it or to buy the CD or something like that. Report an error

38:09 But we aren't taking the time to actually contemplate it. We aren't taking the time to actually... Help it get below the neck, as she always says, you know. And so then what ends up happening is our mind actually gets hardened. We can't take it in the way that softens our mind. And we have to spend time contemplating and meditating on the teachings or we never, we'll never actually integrate them. Report an error

38:34 It just stays intellectual knowledge. And that's what I call becoming a Dharma monster. You know, I used to always say, in my first class I used to always say, I'm not looking to create Dharma monsters. A Dharma monster is just somebody that collects a lot of information and feels like that's their spiritual practice. That's not what we're about here. Report an error

38:54 Like, this is supposed to be stuff to change your life. Which means taking a little time to do... The meditation and the reading and the contemplative exercises as much as you can. And if you can't do it during this particular term, to make time to do it at some other time. Otherwise it just stays academic or intellectual knowledge and it doesn't really change your life. So we need a teacher. Report an error

39:22 We need a living teacher. We need somebody to embody the qualities of enlightened mind for us. my... Teacher is not going to be the same as any of your teachers. I mean, they might be. But I'm just saying that karma is a funny thing. Somebody may connect with somebody who does a lot of work in the streets and is working with substance abuse survivors, and that might be your person. Report an error

39:52 And then somebody else may connect with somebody who has been in retreat for 17 years and is... You know, 85 and is Polish. You know what I mean? It's just like whatever it is that's going to click with our mind is not necessarily what's going to click with your best friend's mind. And that's an important thing too. You may not care what the person in the back of the room is going to do, but you might care what your best friend does. And so that's an important thing when we're looking for our spiritual teachers. Report an error

40:21 They may not be the same spiritual teachers. And we have to respect somebody else's choice too. Especially if they've leapt, if they've already leapt and they've made the leap to consider this person their guru. If they're at the deciding point and they're asking your advice, that's cool. You can give it. But if they've already made the leap and they really feel like this person is their person, try to help them out a little bit. Report an error

40:52 I mean, unless you feel like this person is totally... insane or something and then come to me or somebody you trust but if you just don't I'm getting Report an error

41:07 offline here, but anyway, but yeah. karma is not to see this person as an enlightened being. Report an error

41:26 Teachers make this whole system of both sūtra and tantra come alive in a way that we can never get from just attending teachings and reading books and so forth. Report an error

41:40 And particularly with tantra, they actually pointedly made a lot of tantric teachings really cryptic, which I thought was very interesting. When Geshe-la was teaching grounds and paths of secret mantra, Report an error

41:57 He was pointing that out, that they wanted to catch people who hadn't, number one, been initiated, and number two, were trying to read it, and they shouldn't be, because they're supposed to be going through the text with a teacher, and people would find them and start reading them. So they pointedly made them not make any sense. It was like, you know, we're going to encrypt these teachings with these ways to protect them. Report an error

42:24 So if you find a high level tantric teaching and you just try to begin reading it, it may not make any sense and there's a reason for that. It's made for you to go through with a teacher. So there's nothing wrong with you, but maybe take it to your teacher and say it doesn't make any sense to me. Report an error

42:46 So yeah, we need teachers. To inspire our mind, we need teachers to decode the tantric teachings. And we need teachers who know our minds because they're going to know what's actually going to work for us. Report an error

43:04 Because the same teacher, you know, a lot of times, and this happens a lot, this happens, this has happened so many times at the center, either with Geshe or with Lama Zopa or with somebody who happens to be the teacher of a lot of us. Someone will come running down and say, Geshe-la said this. It's like, Geshe-la said that to you. I wasn't there. Report an error

43:28 Geshe-la said something else to me, you know. And he's done that and he's given completely different advice, just like the Buddha. Completely different advice to people because he knows their minds and he can see this person's very upset. Their method right now is probably going to be remove themselves. Report an error

43:45 himself from the object or whatever. This person, on the other hand, is able to move in this way. Maybe she's more service-oriented, which happens to be my MO. And this one, maybe good to go and do seven years retreat. So it's very different. If somebody told me to go and do seven years, now I'd actually be excited. Report an error

44:06 But at one time, I probably would have burst into tears. I wouldn't have been ready. So they have to know what's going to work for our minds. Or they just lose us. So that's what's unique about working with a teacher too. And it isn't always what you think they would have you do too, right? Because we don't have the same wisdom. I mean, if they are who they seem to be, and we should be choosing somebody with wisdom. And tantra especially is very, very specific and precise. Report an error

44:37 It's like a science in that way. The more you learn about it, you're just like, wow. Who created this? Oh yeah, the Buddha. It's so precise. And so we would screw it up. We would totally screw it up. I definitely would screw it up. I'll speak for myself. So I definitely need somebody who knows what all these things are and how to do them and has this understanding of the subtle body and the subtle mind and how to work with it and all of that stuff. Report an error

45:11 And somebody to challenge me. You know, when I need to be challenged. Whether I want to be challenged or not. If I've put myself in that situation, then I want to be challenged. Report an error

45:24 So, again, from Lama Yeshe. When we see someone who has reached beyond selfishness, who has transcended the petty concerns of this world while still living in the world, who speaks and acts from intuitive wisdom, And who is truly dedicated to the welfare of others, then we can have faith and conviction that these attainments are possible for ourselves as well. Report an error

45:54 It's a lot like if a little kid has a parent who embodies positive things versus negative things. Then that kid can go farther faster because they can see what's possible. Report an error

46:12 The parents are modeling negative things. It can take us longer. I had one of each. Report an error

46:24 Think about, for example, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who embodies a lot of ways of working with the angry mind, how to work with peace in really creative ways, how to listen, how to dialogue. He embodies that. He does that. That's like what he does with his hobby. When he's not teaching, he's like meeting with children on the streets or something. Report an error

46:51 It's like that's what he does with his time off. And it's creative ways of dealing with the conflicts that arise in our lives and in the world. So we see with our own eyes what's possible. So anyway, this is a little something about this relationship. with the Buddha. You don't enter a relationship with a guru of any level, whether it's in the sūtra or tantric level, until you've checked up and until you know this is somebody that you want to have this kind of relationship with all the way until you get enlightened. Report an error

47:39 When it's somebody who is like a guru level, meaning... And we do talk about this more in the spiritual teacher class, but Guru and Lama both have this meaning of weighted with qualities. So it's not just like, this is my teacher. For example, I will say at what level, when I went down to see His Holiness Sakya Treason, all of this was in my mind quite a bit because I felt really firmly, very strongly that... Report an error

48:12 I didn't know who this was, and I didn't want to receive anything from them. I know he's wonderful. I know he's my guru's guru, but I hadn't ever met him. I've never even read anything about him. I simply went to help because it was an event that was co-sponsored by our center, and I felt like since Charles had left that I would step into that role. Report an error

48:32 So the whole time I kept thinking, I'm taking this as a blessing. I'm not receiving anything. I'm not entering any kind of... I kept that very clear in my mind. And they say to do that. It's totally fine to attend, for example, a public talk with Bob Thurman, but you can just think, I'm attending this as an informational talk. Report an error

48:51 I'm not becoming guru-disciple relationship with you, Bob. I like you a lot, but I'm not doing that. So where it happens is in the mind. So I usually, that's where I'll say it really clearly in my mind, this is what my relationship is with you. If you're attending, for example, a weekend workshop at the center, then you can do the same thing. Report an error

49:12 I'm attending this workshop with Tenzin Chokyi. I respect her, but I'm not entering into that relationship with her at this point. And then it's really clear. Then you don't have that, oh my gosh, what did I do? Did I just do something there? Did I just enter some weird, heavy relationship that I wasn't ready for? Report an error

49:31 Because whoever it is that you enter that relationship with, they stay your groove. They say to our enlightenment, but even for the rest of our life is a long time. Report an error

49:43 Even for ten years is a long time. We change a lot in ten years, folks. It doesn't mean at some point if that person begins behaving in a way that you can't, maybe you can't follow as intimately as, or you don't understand or something, it doesn't mean that you can't make a decision to not go in that direction, but you have to do it incredibly respectfully. Report an error

50:07 You just can't diss that person in your mind, or even worse, amongst all your friends. You know, so you just be like, okay, I don't really understand, but I don't have any great wisdom. Report an error

50:20 But I think I'm going to hop off this train for a little bit and hop onto this train. And you can do it very, very respectfully. But for the rest of your life, that person is in your, they call you sort of your guru tree. We visualize them when we do our practices. We try to visualize all the ones that we consider gurus. Which, again, as Geshe-la says, If you have bodhicitta and you know how to serve a guru, you have no choice but to take as many as possible. Report an error

50:55 If you don't, better to take just one. So better to not collect so many gurus because otherwise we just end up not following any of their advice. Report an error

51:09 But anyway, so I digress. So the mandala. I'm going to talk a little bit about the mandala and then about the empowerment, what happens at the empowerment or initiation. Report an error

51:25 Lama Yeshi in his book talks about the meeting of the inner and the outer guru, which happens at the initiation. Report an error

51:36 And we enter this thing that's called a mandala. There are different forms of mandala. There's an image of a mandala that often, if you attend an empowerment, you'll receive a card that has the image on it. There may be a sand mandala like there is at the Kala Chakra. It's very unusual because it takes quite a bit of skill and that one's not done as much anymore. Report an error

52:06 The Kala Chakra is almost always done with a sand mandala. Most other empowerments are done with an image mandala. And then you also see people doing that practice. That's also mandala. There's this 3D mandala practice that you do. It's actually a nindro or preliminary practice that you build a 3D image of the universe and all beautiful and wonderful things are in it as you offer. Report an error

52:35 That's not related. But it's the same in that it is a universe. It's a little universe. That's really what a mandala is. So the mandala that we visualize when we enter tantra or do a tantric practice or take an empowerment is inhabited by deities, you know, a central deity and then the other deities who are in the mandala, sometimes many, many. Report an error

53:06 Sometimes amazingly many, many. Not just Buddhas, sometimes dakas and dakinis and they'll even have a surrounding of like a graveyard and like there's all these incredible amount of detail in these mandalas. The main thing is the main meditational deity. So whenever it gets too... Ornate, try to simplify it because we can get really caught up in all the externals and we have to keep bringing it back to that central deity and then our relationship with that central deity who is the guru. Report an error

53:45 There's all of that going on too. Report an error

53:50 So the only way we can enter the mandala is through the introduction of a qualified Vajra Master. We can't do it on our own. That's the only way that we can do it. Report an error

54:04 So they need to have all these different qualities but then they also need to simply have a relationship with that particular practice. And in order to give an empowerment they need to have done at least an approximation retreat which is usually anywhere from three weeks to three months retreat where they get familiar with that deity and that deity's practice. Report an error

54:29 And one of the caveats is They cannot give the empowerment, even if they're completely qualified in every other way, if the presiding deity says they can't. Now, how that one's checked up, I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't want to go against that one. But that's one of the rules, is that if they receive any sign that they shouldn't give it, then they can't give it. Report an error

54:54 And if anybody else receives a sign, then they can't give it. But yeah, they have to have, they have to also just simply know how to offer an empowerment. There's a training for that, you know. Report an error

55:07 They need to know like all the different things involved and the sequence of events that happened. And this kept happening for His Holiness. He would notice that, you know, one of his attendants had brought the wrong thing up. And he was giggling and saying, you know, it's a good thing. I'm making a mistake. They're making mistakes. We're good companions, he said. I thought that was very cute. I mean, there's so much going on. Report an error

55:32 And you have to know. It's like the director of the film, right? You know, the Vajra master is the director of the film. They have to have an overriding image of exactly what's going on at all times. Because they are taking a risk with us, too. They actually, as Geshe-la said, if they take us on as a tantric student and we're not a proper vessel, they go to Vajra hell. Report an error

56:07 That's how it works. So they don't want to, you know, I mean, it's like they don't enter these things lightly either, you know. Of course, the way Geshe-la puts it too, and I don't know if I should even say this one, but he said, but... But, you know, even if we go to Vajrahel, if we've entered Tantra, we'll still get enlightened faster. And it's like the rest of us are like, wow, like you can't even, it doesn't even make sense to us. Report an error

56:31 Because we just have this idea of like, oh me, this little tiny, and they have this whole many, many lifetimes view. And he's like, but you still get enlightened so much faster, you know. But anyway. The empowerment. So the empowerment. Report an error

56:51 Is when you bridge between this outer and inner, I mean your whole practice is the bridge between the outer and the inner guru. But this is when you enter the mandala, you are initiated into the practice and it's a shared meditation between the guru and you. Yeah, there may be 20,000 other people there or there may be three. Report an error

57:20 If you are so lucky, and this does still happen in this day and age, where it could be just a few people. It doesn't matter how many people are in the room. You should be listening to whatever they say and trying your best to do it. And if people are knocking against you and everything else, just close your eyes and just focus on what they're saying and do your best to follow that advice. Report an error

57:52 Oh, and I didn't mention, the other thing that the Vajra Masters should have is an unbroken lineage all the way back to the Buddha. And they always bring that up, right? Who were my teachers? Who did I receive this from? And who did I receive this commentary from? And so forth. The reason is because it goes all the way back. It's unbroken, and that's really important. Nobody's just coming up with their own tantric, you know. Report an error

58:24 They shouldn't be. If you're there, they shouldn't be coming up with their own tantric practice. And if you think they did, that might be the moment to get up and leave. Like, nobody gave this to me. I figured this out on my own. That should be a sign that maybe you didn't get up and leave. It should. Report an error

58:43 It should be, you know, I received this from so-and-so and then they received it from so-and-so. Sometimes they'll give it all the way back. I have heard them where they actually give it all the way back before. Report an error

58:56 But that's a really important aspect of Tantra. Remember Tantra, one of the meanings of Tantra was continuity. So it's the continuity of mind, but it's the continuity of this lineage too. And it's a really, really important aspect for it to be an authentic. Report an error

59:13 Tantric teaching. Report an error

59:17 So, yeah, so there's a lot of externals that go on and especially with Tantra, all the bells and the candles and the incense and the tormas, which are so interesting to our minds, you know, and beautiful, you know, there's such details and such intricate details and all these. Candles and everything is going on and they're running around with trays of stuff and, you know, people are going up and doing various things and then they're saying what that means and you're trying to write that down. Report an error

59:51 There's a lot of stuff happening. So just, again, always come back to what is he saying to visualize and what am I doing? Because one of the things Geshla was saying too, you know, in the old days when it was just like three of you and one Lama. And, you know, the Lama would come up and do all these various things, you know, himself. He wouldn't have all these attendants. It was really different. There wasn't such a lag time between what he announced and your experience of that. Report an error

1:00:18 For example, if he was going to touch you with a bell, he would touch you with a bell at the same time. Now, it's like, especially with something big like... Well, Lama Zopa too. I mean, even if you have 200 people or 100 people, it's still, if you're the one in the back row and there's always one, by the time the thing comes, you're like, well, that's supposed to be. Report an error

1:00:40 Do it at the time that he says, even if the thing doesn't get to you for half an hour or 40 minutes. Just stop, visualize it, and then you're covered. Then by the time the bell winds its way back to Jess and the umpteenth nosebleed section of the 30,000, you know, Seat, you know, whatever. And it bonks her on the head, then that's just extra. Then you can do it again. It certainly won't hurt to do it again. Report an error

1:01:07 But if you do it right at the moment that he or she first describes it, that's your empowerment. So just do it based, it can all be visualized. We don't need any of the externals, you know. There was a moment at the Kalachakra where things got a wee bit hairy out in the lobby when certain things were being handed out. Report an error

1:01:36 One of them was a protection cord and the other was a kusha grass to give us auspicious dreams. Report an error

1:01:46 And there was like a quasi-riot to get these things, you know. They didn't have like a system worked out. There were different, you know, many different cultures represented there and it was insane. And it was, so who was I? I was with Liza. So Liza, finally in the end, I managed to get one. This young Tibetan man is about 16, lunged forward, got one, turned around, saw me. Report an error

1:02:13 And they just like handed it to me. It was really cute. And I ripped it up into about five different parts for everybody around who didn't have one. You're supposed to have two. You're supposed to have a short one and a long one. One goes under your pillow and one goes under your bed. And so I told everyone, take it home and rip it in half and the shorter one can go under your pillow. Report an error

1:02:34 Because you're just visualizing. It doesn't matter. It's just a thing, you know. It can be anything. You can pick a piece of grass out of the ground and have it work, you know. And then the other thing was a protection cord, so neither of us got a protection cord, so then I said, okay, okay, so we visualize, put it around your wrist, she put it on her wrist, we didn't have anything, and I said, okay, now we've got it, you know, so now we're protected. Report an error

1:02:56 And that's totally fine, this is how tantra works, we're visualizing, you know, it doesn't have to become so crazy, and you don't have to get so grasping to get those things, you know. Report an error

1:03:10 So the main thing is the shared act of meditation or visualization between you and the Lama, the Guru, the Master, the Vajra Master. He's not giving you something. So a lot of times people have this idea, I'm just going to show up and I'm going to get this thing. Report an error

1:03:29 Most Tibetans or most translators of Tibetan that I've spoken to don't like this idea of getting an initiation. Like saying, getting an initiation. It's like the master does bestow upon you something, but it's a mutual thing. You have to be there, alert and open. So it's this fine balance between being very open and getting all obsessive with all the different details and all the externals. Report an error

1:04:04 It's like you need to... Be alert and be aware of what's going on and not just being in some sort of blissed out state. So it's a lot like meditation, I guess, actually. I can say I meditate every morning, but I don't know how often I really meditate. But when I do, it is much more alert and open and aware. And that's what you want to be like at the empowerment, too. Report an error

1:04:29 You want to be... You know, so that when the guru is explaining things, you are there. You are right there. And there's nothing more important than what's going on in that room. And when Lama's over Rinpoche, of course, sometimes you also have the lateness of the hour. Because he can, I've been at things with him when he's gone all night. Report an error

1:04:50 And I've actually been with him when he waits until X amount of people either leave or go to sleep. And then he gives it to the 18 people that manage to be awake. And that's a very, and you're like, oh, oh, oh. He's going, you know, because he keeps giving the motivation, the motivation, the motivation, and everyone's like going more and more. Report an error

1:05:13 I mean, people are just sacked out on the floor. I actually heard a story once where he did in, I think it was in Taiwan, he did that and he just kept going and going and going and one person was awake. One person received that initiation. It's right in the front row. Everybody else is completely sucked up. Report an error

1:05:32 You have to stay alert and aware and with it as much as you can. Or take your nap early. Report an error

1:05:43 It's like a two-way thing. You have to be involved. It's not something passive that you just show up and you go home and you've gotten it. yes Report an error

1:05:53 He's not going to give you anything. He's awakening through the process of the initiation these qualities and capacities within you that you may not even believe you have are being awoken, taken from their slumber and sort of empowered. Thus the other word. Empowerment and initiation are the same word. Initiation is a beginning. Report an error

1:06:22 So that's why it's called an initiation. It's the beginning of your practice, that particular practice. Empowerment is obvious. You are receiving permission or empowered with permission to do this practice and these qualities are awakening within you, within your mind and your body. Report an error

1:06:45 So, um, And empowerment isn't just a fancy ritual, it's this connection between you, the guru and the disciple. And it depends on both of you. So if one part of you isn't there, you haven't received the empowerment. I mean often it's sort of questionable how many of us actually receive an empowerment anyway. For many, many reasons. Because really Tantra is meant for the most advanced. Report an error

1:07:22 Really, really, they say we should already have a direct perception of emptiness and bodhicitta in order to be able to take these and to really work with them. So I always say, you know, like when His Holiness gives an empowerment, it's like there's three Geshe's in the front row. Like they got it and the rest of us are all like, yeah, you know, walking out with our like, you know, all of our things that we got, you know. Report an error

1:07:50 But we try. That's all we can do, right? We can try the best. And we keep, it's also important to think we don't just take an empowerment once. You can keep taking the same empowerment to go deeper and deeper and maybe by the third time you have a clue what's happening. It's actually very interesting. The more times you would attend them, you're like, oh yeah, okay, that's what this is. And then you can help other people. We're like, what did he say? Report an error

1:08:15 What was that mantra? There's always that panic because everyone thinks they missed the one thing, the key to their enlightenment. So you can go deeper in that same practice, and especially if it's your main practice or one of your main practices. That can be really powerful. But also... Report an error

1:08:37 Every time we take an empowerment, we take bodhisattva and tantric vows, and so we finally have a chance to purify them and start over. Report an error

1:08:47 So when we screwed up our vows, as well as we've tried to keep them, and maybe we haven't kept them as well as we could have, it gives us a chance to start over. And so that's another reason why people do retake empowerment. Always, always, always. Find out if there's any commitment and if there's any commitment other than, even if it's the same one, if there's any commitment other than what you've already taken. Report an error

1:09:13 Always, always, always. Even if people say, well, usually, find out. I always make the joke, you know. Because it has happened to me where you take something and you end up with more of a commitment than you thought because nobody thought to ask. And the Lama surprises us. So it is changing now. I do think one of the signs of the degenerate age actually is that Lamas are doing less of commitments for these things. Report an error

1:09:48 They are assuming that we are just taking tantric empowerments for the seeds, for the karmic seeds, unfortunately. Even when I first started, Lamas would give you retreat commitments, and that's really rare now. And I really think that's a brilliant thing. I think all the retreats I've ever done have been just about, I mean, obviously not Lama Room retreats and not the study retreats, but they've almost always been because I had a homework assignment, right? Report an error

1:10:16 Because I'm a good little Western girl. So when I receive an empowerment and I have a retreat commitment, I make note of it. I make sure I do it. You know, and I, you know, so it's like I do it, it becomes, otherwise I wouldn't probably get my butt on the cushion to go in and do that retreat. And those retreats have changed my life. Report an error

1:10:37 So I'm actually kind of sad that when I see Lamas, even the same Lamas, now, which isn't that long ago, because I haven't been, you know, I started in the Dharma 15 years ago. So just in that amount of time, now they're saying, you know, You can choose how many mantras to do rather than three months retreat. It's very interesting. So they're not seeing us taking it as seriously as I feel we are capable of. Report an error

1:11:08 So we've got to show them. So, yeah, but I definitely see that changing. But always, always ask because you don't want to have something that you just know. You don't want to be surprised at the end after you've taken it when they say three months. You know, retreat on the deity or something like that. But then you'd make the time to get off work, wouldn't you? It is kind of interesting that way. Report an error

1:11:38 So if both the guru and the disciple are properly qualified, then amazing things can happen. They say all the way up to, it's possible for disciples to, I mean there are stories in the teachings that... Disciples have attained really high realizations even just during an empowerment, which is pretty amazing, even all the way to the point of enlightenment during an empowerment. Report an error

1:12:08 Imagine that. It's like that was really like a, whoa, what's going on with Anne? She looks really different. Things are popping out. Report an error

1:12:20 Yeah, so I mean if the student and the teacher are completely properly qualified, that's when things can happen. But all the way up to that, you know, things can still happen for those of us who aren't quite ready, but it can still shift our life a lot and shift how we work with our mind and so forth. Report an error

1:12:41 But really best to be as ready as you can be before you enter it. Report an error

1:12:52 When I tell you these different things, always know that during the empowerment, the Lama also tells you. So you don't have to worry and think, oh my gosh, it's like a final exam. And if I don't have it all ready, before I go in there, bring all my notes from class, bring all the books that I need, don't do that. Report an error

1:13:15 There's another balance between being as prepared as possible and then letting go. And just being one with that Lama at that time. That Lama will tell you exactly what to do. So just pay attention. Report an error

1:13:34 So when I tell you different things, it may not happen at that particular initiation. Even, for example, in Washington, His Holiness was deciding in the interest of time that it was more important for him to give more details than it was for us to repeat things three times. you know. Report an error

1:13:53 Or so forth, you know And it may be more important from that Lama's point of view, for example, Lama Zopa Rinpoche always spends hours and hours and hours on the motivation. Always. And hours and hours and hours on the dedication, too. So you think it's all done and it's time to go home? No. Don't put the book away. Those dedications will go on for a long time, too. Report an error

1:14:15 Because he feels like, and he feels like this is true for any practice, not just Tantra. We have to really spend a long time motivating our mind to do whatever action with bodhicitta and we have to remember to dedicate it as broadly as possible because we probably weren't doing too much in the body of the initiation or the practice. Report an error

1:14:36 So he always has us do a lot of that. Not everybody does that. You know, certain Lamas like Chodron Rinpoche, they arrive on the dot. They're very clear. Chodron Rinpoche is very, very clear. Very much like His Holiness and very traditional too. Lama Zopa is completely different. So, you know, you just don't know what you're going to get. Report an error

1:14:59 Whatever it is, if you've decided, you've committed and you're there, don't worry about the clock. Don't think about... Anything else, just be as present as possible and as open as possible and keep your motivation bodhicitta as much as possible. And they'll explain it as it goes along. I do think it's useful to, and this is totally a side, but I do see people attending teachings and impairments without a notebook. Report an error

1:15:25 I think it's useful to have a notebook to jot things down. If they say something that's either confusing or... Clarifying, you want to jot it down. If it's confusing, then you can go find somebody and ask them, Chokyi, what do you mean by that? They often will say, and I'm going to tell you the four initiations before we take a break. There are four initiations in high shoga tantra. Report an error

1:15:52 And I'll tell you what each of them does just really briefly. And it's useful to know. What's being purified, what's being blessed, what seed you're getting and so forth. And this happens all the way through. Different things come up that have this symbolism of what Buddha family you connect with and so forth. Report an error

1:16:13 And that's useful for you to know. And they'll often have people who are representing. If you can't go up, if it's a small initiation, you can actually go up. And do whatever yourself, and that will tell you what Buddha family you have a connection with and what your main practice is and stuff like that. Report an error

1:16:34 But even in a really huge one like this event in Washington, they choose somebody. They're like, okay, let's choose that one sponsor. The laywoman sponsor is going to represent everybody. And then sometimes they'll choose a monk and a nun to represent the monks and the nuns, like we're not everybody else or something like that. Report an error

1:16:52 But they'll, you know, or all the llamas, you know, sometimes you'll see, like, for example, with Chodron Rinpoche, Geshe-la will run up and he'll get to do his own. But, you know, everybody else has to. In the interest of time, they aren't going to have 7,000 people go up there and, like, you know, throw the little stick to see where it lands. Report an error

1:17:11 You know, they'll just choose one person, usually the director of the center, or in the case of a large one, a sponsor. And then you just pay attention and jot it down. So if you don't have a notebook, you're not owning it. Again, it's like another sense of owning your empowerment, your own empowerment. Report an error

1:17:30 So bring a notebook with you. I remember, too, in my very first empowerment, I happened to have a really good friend, Ted Zanchoki, who thought ahead. Report an error

1:17:44 She was always like a few years beyond me on the path. And she had printed out like the meaning of various things and brought it and gave it to me. It was such a nice thing to do. I think I still have it. It was like one of those things. Remember the old fax paper that was like that thermal paper? It probably is not even readable anymore, but I still have it. Report an error

1:18:02 And it was quite useful because when they were doing all these things, I could like look them up and see. And then I could understand what was happening because otherwise there's just so many things happening. You're just completely lost. Like I said, the Lama always explains, so just pay attention and do your best to follow along. So there's four main initiations, which makes it sound much shorter than it really is. Report an error

1:18:28 Each of them has this sort of myriad. I mean, the vase initiation has billions of, that's an exaggeration, it has many, many aspects to it. Report an error

1:18:40 Anyway, there are four main initiations and I'm just going to say really briefly what they are about. So the vase initiation is the first one and that initiates the yoga into being able to do the deity yoga. That deity yoga blesses the body and it plants the seed for the nirmanakaya or the emanation body. Report an error

1:19:11 The nirmanakaya or the emanation body of the Buddha. I'll Report an error

1:19:19 say that again. Vase initiation initiates the disciple into deity yoga, being able to practice deity yoga, purifies and blesses the body and plants the seed of the nirmanakaya or emanation body of the Buddha. Report an error

1:19:45 Emanation body is what we see, right? So often, you know, when a Buddha sends out, they say that Buddhists can send out limitless emanation bodies in whatever form that we need, right? So I always make the joke about the old lady on the bus could be an emanation body. Often the most common emanation body that we see is the teacher, the guru, because that's the one that can help us, right? That's their activity that can help the most is teaching. Report an error

1:20:10 But, yeah, there's nothing to say that it isn't that old lady on the bus or your next-door neighbor. The secret initiation Report an error

1:20:23 blesses the speech, oh I'm sorry, initiates the disciple into the practice of deity body called illusory body, illusory body, and that blesses the speech and Report an error

1:20:43 plants the seed of the enjoyment body or the Sambhogakaya, enjoyment body. So these are the, they're called the four bodies of the Buddha, but you know it's all the Buddha. Report an error

1:21:01 So I'll say it again, secret initiation initiates the disciple into the illusory body, Report an error

1:21:11 purifies the speech, purifies and blesses the speech, and plants the seed of the enjoyment body or the sambhogakaya. Report an error

1:21:27 The wisdom initiation Report an error

1:21:32 initiates the disciple into the clear light, the subtle mind of actual clear light. It's the practice of the clear light. In all these cases, the practice of the illusory body, the practice of the clear light. Report an error

1:21:51 And purifies and blesses the mind and Report an error

1:21:58 plants the seed of the Dharmakaya, the truth body. I'll Report an error

1:22:08 say that again. Wisdom initiation initiates the disciple into the practice of the most subtle mind of clear light, Report an error

1:22:19 purifies and blesses the mind and plants the seed of the truth body. or dharmakaya. Report an error

1:22:35 The word initiation is the fourth and Report an error

1:22:41 that initiates the disciple into the practice of the union of clear light and the illusory body and Report an error

1:22:52 that purifies and blesses the body, speech and mind altogether. You can also say the subtle body, speech and mind and plants the seed of the nature body of the Buddha or, and this is what I always have a hard time saying, any Sanskrit scholars. Svabavakaya, Svabavakaya. Svabhavakaya, the nature body of the Buddha. Report an error

1:23:21 So again, the word initiation initiates the disciple into the practice of union of clear light and illusory body, purifies and blesses the body, speech and mind altogether and plants the seed of the nature body. Report an error

1:23:43 So that's very, very brief. Obviously, in all of them there's a multitude of details. But those are secret until you enter that practice. Any questions before we take a break? Sure. Sure. That's the kind of question I like. The word initiation. The word initiation initiates the disciple into the practice of the union of clear light and the illusory body. Report an error

1:24:17 That purifies and blesses the body, speech and mind altogether. Or the subtle body, speech and mind. And plants the seed. of the nature body of the Buddha it's Babavakaya Report an error

1:24:46 about the guru? Report an error

1:25:01 So whoever initiated you in refuge, is that also part of your guru tree? Yeah, yeah. Whoever you take refuge from becomes your refuge Lama for life. And there's that kind of sweetness there. You may never take another teaching from that Lama. Ever, you know, but hopefully not, but it happens, you know, but still there's that sweetness that they, you became basically a Buddhist, an inner being, you know, because of the kindness of this Lama. Report an error

1:25:36 And actually that's something too, oh no, I'm going to mention that in the second half, but yeah, that identity with... The guru and the deity allows us to get closer to the deity in a way that we wouldn't otherwise. And so that's what that one's kind of about. But yeah, you can have a guru that you, like for example, Geshe-la for me is a guru because I studied with him for 11 years. Report an error

1:26:06 I studied the whole lamrim. In great detail. And I remember at some point, about five years into it, he said, anyone who teaches you the lamrim can be said to be your guru. And I was like, oh. Report an error

1:26:22 Because I hadn't really thought so much about choosing. I mean, it sounds stupid, but Lama Tsongkhapa Rinpoche told me to come and study with him. I didn't just come and study with him. I was following Lama Tsongkhapa Rinpoche's advice. And so I kind of held him a little bit at arm's length. And he's my genlam. Report an error

1:26:40 You know, so it doesn't have to be a tantric relationship or even a vow relationship. It can be based on studying. And it can be based on a shift, a shift in your mind of like recognizing a connection. Even as little as them giving you a mantra or something, you know, it can just be a shift. But the shift has to be, I mean, you have to be aware of that. Report an error

1:27:04 You have to actually notice, oh, this is my teacher. But be careful, you know, like just... When I recognized Lama Zopa Rinpoche to be my root guru, I didn't say it out loud to myself. And then, you know, I kind of, when I did, I didn't say it out loud to him for a while. And then when I did, the first time that I wrote something to him and I actually called him my holy precious guru or something like that, like on the card. Report an error

1:27:39 And I had it there and he hadn't opened it yet. And he put his hand on it and closed his eyes. And it was just like something shifted in the room. And it was really powerful. I mean, even thinking about it, it brings tears to my eyes. But at that moment, then he like sort of grabbed my head and he just started going like this. Report an error

1:27:59 Which to me was kind of like, he was trying to get it through my thick skull. And it was quite powerful. And I felt like he knew exactly what I did. Like I had made that leap in our relationship and it had opened. So it's just like it all happens in your mind. It all happens in your mind. So when you have that connection, that connection awakens and you recognize that connection, it's precious. Report an error

1:28:28 So don't let it out of the bag until you're ready to let it out of the bag. But then when you're ready to let it out of the bag, go for it. Report an error

1:28:38 So anybody that you take vows from is the same. So if you take bodhisattva vows separately in a freestanding ceremony, and that happens too. Sometimes Lama's, I took bodhisattva vows in a bodhisattva vow ceremony, and Geshe-la has given bodhisattva vows in that way, and I want him to teach, I want him to offer them at the end of Shantideva, when he finishes Shantideva, because it's a nice time, especially for people who have actually attended the whole thing. Report an error

1:29:05 Then that person becomes a guru, if you're taking vows from anybody, lay vows, the same. Any other questions? Report an error

1:29:23 He's still recovering. He had a major, so the question was, the question asked was where is Lama Zopa Rinpoche now? He manifested having a major stroke on April 22nd and he is recovering. Report an error

1:29:46 Canceled everything through the end of the year, and then they'll just decide how he's doing. So I think he's still at Copan, actually. I mean, he was in Australia when it first happened, and then he was receiving physical therapy and so forth. But then he went to Copan Monastery, and he's still receiving physical therapy every day, and he's doing both Western and Tibetan medicine. Report an error

1:30:10 And then there's also this woman, Khandrola, Has many great powers, apparently. She sounds so amazing. And she's also doing a form of physical therapy with them, too. And Venerable Rogers says it's kind of interesting to see the difference between them and also the similarities between them. So he's doing both. Any Report an error

1:30:41 other questions? Why don't you take a break, then? Report an error

1:31:13 you go get a piece of paper and then she And I've heard it by email address. Yeah. I know. Yeah. How else do you want to send her talk a little bit? I know. Report an error

1:31:29 Jenny, did I ever send you the binder for this class? Report an error

1:31:40 is all I, is everything I got. got you some of those. You got some of those. You got some of Report an error

1:31:50 I haven't received anything at all, except I got one email from you. Yes. Okay, so you got everything. Report an error

1:32:02 And then also say, so just put down next to it, find your syllabus. And then what about the notes from the first three times? Report an error

1:32:13 And then make sure you're here. Report an error

1:32:17 And I haven't been getting the newsletter, so I'm wondering if maybe sign up again. Yeah. Because I joined, you know, a paid member, but I'm not getting any personal. Yeah. Report an error

1:32:31 Oh, really? I'm doing it these days, and I'm trying to not do as many. I was trying to do just like one for the main month one, and then a reminder that we're going through a month of any changes and anything else that's coming up. So that's what my idea is. So I'm going to try to do one this weekend. Like just a little one, and then do a big one at the beginning of the month. Report an error

1:33:01 That's kind of my idea. That was what I was doing. Yeah, that sounds good. So there probably hasn't been anything. Oh, good. Yeah. But you haven't missed any. And the other thing is I saw Nika out at the beach and she wanted me to be sure and say to you there was. Thanks so much. How is she? Great. Yeah. She's going to go off to college art school in Southern California. Report an error

1:33:29 You know, I was just thinking about her. Really? Oddly, just not that long ago, maybe six months ago. She looked wonderful. I mean, just wonderful. Oh, wow. I brought the box to prove what they were. And agave? Oh, my God. It's so exciting. They actually look like girl cookies. They look like cookies. I know. We'll know in a few minutes. Report an error

1:33:49 So, okay, I'm going to have to keep in. Report an error

1:33:59 you need anything to water? Maybe some water again. Okay. Report an error

1:34:10 hot water in here? Yeah. Like maybe warm water, like half and half? That would be great. Half hot and half cold. Thank you. Report an error

1:34:28 I spent three and a half hours at the DMD today, and I was reviewing my notes and stuff, so it's really an opportunity. It was the best team in my experience I've ever had. That's great. It really was. I reviewed all my notes. Wow. Yeah. What were you doing there? I just had a review. Wow. Report an error

1:34:49 Wow, but you were prepared. Yeah, and I am meditating. I try to meditate every night, but it's about five times a week. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I started to do, especially this last exercise. Yeah, I do feel different. I don't know, I just, I'm really glad I'm doing this. Excellent, that's good. Report an error

1:35:16 You know, it can be overwhelming, but I realize this is a lifelong process. That's it. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to get it all at one time. Yeah, right. You can actually keep repeating it every time it comes up again to you. Yeah. Report an error

1:35:34 I mean, because that's an option, too. If you're not really ready to fly the coop. at the end of the DB program? You just keep taking the DB program. I'm just thinking that away. There's no not at all. It would be fun to have some continuity. I always feel kind of sad at the end And then when people sort of graduate and move on to like Emily or something. Report an error

1:35:59 something, that's what I said. Report an error

1:36:08 Oh, I mean, it's just from another tradition of Tibetan Buddhists. Report an error

1:36:14 Yeah, because Dzogchen is usually coming from one of the four. It usually is coming from either Saki or Kagu, I think. Yeah, yeah. Who was the owner? It was a very long, a lot of names. Right, right. Yeah, no, it's interesting. There's an interesting, I'm interested in that too. think, yeah. Because I put in, like, side. Yeah, Report an error

1:36:37 I mean, it's just emptiness of the mind, basically. So that's really all that you're getting to. So you're still getting at it. Report an error

1:36:54 There's less studying all the details in general. I think it was really big on all the lists. Report an error

1:37:19 you for saying that. I'll see you trying to make it I want you to see her. You know what, I was just looking at it. Was it supposed to be a different date? Yes. Yes, I got changed. Like the first of August or something. Because I just was looking. I hope it's warm enough. Do you want me to? No, no, no. I just didn't want it to be so hot that I do the thing. Yeah. Report an error

1:37:45 You know, I just was looking at the little poster at the bottom of the stairs and it said that it was the first. And I was like. Because we have been trading emails and I was like, oh, yeah. Or maybe they changed terms. Excellent. Oh, well, I should send something down. Maybe if you have a minute after that, just write a card and then give it to her. That would be fun. Report an error

1:38:19 But I remember that. She doesn't like it. Report an error

1:38:48 Thank you. Report an error

1:39:08 Thank you. Oh, he's going to go watch this. No, no, no, he's going to be there. Yeah, yeah. No, he's going to be there. Oh, OK. Report an error

1:39:22 you staying? Report an error

1:39:32 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Report an error

1:40:12 Oh, that's great. Definitely, yeah. I'll be right back. Sherry, she gave me that. I got some water. I'm not. Okay. Thank you. Oh. Just a second. Thank you. Report an error

1:40:34 Is that right? It's just dot, right? Just dot. I thought that's what I had done. But who knows? I'll try it. Okay. Thanks. And maybe make sure that... Okay. She's obviously sending weird things. Yeah, I'll do that. Okay, all right. Thank you. Have I? Report an error

1:41:03 I did many times in the past, but not the same. You mean the language? Do you not see me? Report an error

1:41:36 for today's studies here in Korea. Report an error

1:41:42 It's in Massachusetts, in India. Do you have a university or somewhere for today's studies? Report an error

1:41:55 You'd have to just do research at Google and see There are various... college programs and post-grad programs, but I don't know. Report an error

1:42:14 hasn't been the level that I've been. I know there's a Buddhist university in Portland. Chupa, no, Oregon. Straight up. Report an error

1:42:31 And that's post-credits. Report an error

1:42:46 sorry, yeah. Report an error

1:43:15 John does a little study group here with language, just to learn the language. I don't know if they're doing class at all. It's a common name, it's like John. Report an error

1:43:49 All right, you guys. you, John. Report an error

1:44:01 something. They're like, what a pretty bell. Report an error

1:44:24 So a little something about guru yoga, because that's what you guys are going to have a little guru yoga practice to do as your homework with Shakyamuni Buddha to practice the ideas of it. So just a little something about it so that you don't get it home and go, huh, what's this all about? Report an error

1:44:47 The main idea is that in front of you or at the crown of your head, you visualize the main meditational deity. In this case, it's going to be Guru Shakyamuni. Report an error

1:45:00 Looking at something like that, but not solid. Made of light, woman, made of light. Report an error

1:45:09 And often you're also envisioning the different lineage. I'm going to go kneel. Report an error

1:45:15 Gurus of that particular practice as well, you won't be with this and just be Guru Shakyamuni, trying to keep it simple. Report an error

1:45:25 And then if you're envisioning the lineage Lamas, then you also envision the Lama who gave you the empowerment to keep them as part of the lineage Lamas. Report an error

1:45:37 And then you make requests in various forms and with various prayers to receive blessings and inspiration from them. They agree. They always agree. No matter what kind of schmuck you've been, they always agree. And they're always pleased. They're always happy. They're always happy. Wouldn't it be shocking if they, you know, at some point I'm leading a meditation and it's like, no, he like leaves, you know. Report an error

1:46:07 But no, they do. And in fact, then they come to the crown of your head. They usually shrink to a very, very tiny size. I love you Report an error

1:46:15 Lama Eshi one point said to the size of a tiny bird's egg, which I think is a really nice size to visualize at the crown of your head. Report an error

1:46:25 And then you absorb, you know, they dissolve into you through the crown. They go down through your central channel into your heart center and merge with your mind. Now when this idea of merging with the mind is, you know, there's three aspects. Report an error

1:46:44 The Buddha or the deity, you know in this case Shakyamuni. Your teacher should you have one if you have one at this point. If not you can either ignore that part or you can imagine a teacher that you do respect for example His Holiness or something like that. Report an error

1:47:05 And your own mind and those three parts all merge. Does your mind really merge? No. What's happening is you're receiving inspiration and qualities and blessings into your mind. And you are beginning, and you're sort of moving away from all your ordinary dualistic thinking, hallucinated, as Lami Ishii always calls it, your hallucinated appearances, and so that your mind is becoming more like the guru and the deity's mind with that clarity, that wisdom. Report an error

1:47:38 All of their qualities, all becoming one. Report an error

1:47:46 And so what we're trying to do is to become more like that. We usually spend some time then at that point with that experience because our normal experience is like... Okay, that's over. Now I'm going to go make some dinner or whatever. And so then our mind goes back to that dualistic thinking. Or worse, you sort of interrupt a really beautiful practice with criticizing somebody. Report an error

1:48:12 The mind kicks in. We have such... Eons-long habits of our minds of critical thinking. Or you think, well, you screwed that one up, Jeremy. God, you did it again. We criticize ourselves, too. Report an error

1:48:33 No, because we either break into our beautiful experience with thinking about something ordinary and dualistic, or we turn it on ourselves. you know? It's just . Report an error

1:48:43 Well, you messed it up. No, no, no. You screwed that one up and then we go into guilt, right? I should be better. So no, you try to stay in that state for as long as possible without distraction to experience your own mind, to experience the nature of your own mind as we're trying to get at the clarity, the wisdom, the nature of our mind, the empty nature of our mind as well. Report an error

1:49:10 Here comes Mickey again. Report an error

1:49:14 And then it doesn't end when we get off the cushion. That's the bad news and the good news. It's not like we just get up then and go out and scream at the dog. So we have to try to keep coming back to that state as often as possible. And we screw up. And then we just do it again. We just keep trying again. It's actually a really powerful thing to... Report an error

1:49:38 Remember that, to even repeat that experience, we used to do Guru Pooja every morning for about four years when Van Ravina lived here. When she was leading us in the visualization, she'd say things like, 30 seconds Darmakaya. Because we didn't always have time, right? We were all doing it and we had to go to work. Report an error

1:49:57 And so she showed me that you could do profound practice really quickly. And there are times that we need to know that you can... You can merge with the Dharmakaya in 30 seconds. You're at work. Things are, you know, really intense. That fax machine is a piece of, hmm, time to merge with the Dharmakaya, you know, and you can do it in 30 seconds, you know, and we don't always want to do it in 30 seconds, but there are times that it's really useful to remember this problem, whatever's happening in front of me is not. Report an error

1:50:31 It's a hallucination, remember Lama Yeshi, right? So we're trying to return to that state. So we're trying to keep doing this Guru Yoga as often as we need to and as often as we can. Report an error

1:50:46 And what helps, what I touched on just a moment ago, what helps with this, you know, when you're doing the practice of, for example, Shakyamuni Buddha or Lama Tsongkhapa Guru Yoga, even before you get into Haisa Yoga Tantra, if you're... Thinking of that deity as being essentially your guru, if you have a guru, it warms your heart, right? Report an error

1:51:10 Because the guru, if you have a guru, their kindness for caring about you more than you care about yourself, loving you more than you love yourself, and really only having one goal, and that is to get you enlightened. Whether you like them or not, which is really profound, which is hugely profound. If that is who you're doing this practice with, it's much more interesting and juicy than it is if you're just sort of imagining somebody. Report an error

1:51:45 Like with Shakyamuni Buddha, I've seen pictures, I've seen statues. I don't have an intimate relationship with Shakyamuni Buddha right now, sorry to say. But I do with my guru. Report an error

1:51:57 So if I think of Shakyamuni Buddha and my guru as one, my warmth towards my guru spreads towards Shakyamuni Buddha or whoever the deity is, whether the deity is Tara or Vajrayogini or Yamataka or whoever, that warmth spreads. And so then I'm more interested. They're more interesting to me. They know my mind. It becomes a more juicier practice. Report an error

1:52:28 Definitely more powerful practice. And it's solely to speed our awakening. It's not for them. You know, the Guru doesn't get anything out of it. You know, it's just so that we can wake up faster and get enlightened faster and benefit others faster. You know, all of these practices are just to wake us up faster. So, yeah, so we want to, that's why we think of, Them as being one with the Guru. If you don't have a Guru, then you can just experiment with somebody that you respect, like Pema Chodron or somebody public like His Holiness or something like that. Report an error

1:53:12 So you just get some practice of it. Report an error

1:53:18 And this takes a very long time. This practice, this eroding of our ordinary mind and our dualistic mind and hallucinated mind takes a long time. Report an error

1:53:32 You shouldn't ever do any of these practices if they feel, if they don't feel right to you or if they don't feel, you know, like if they feel uncomfortable or something, then there's, don't do them. It's funny that people never think of that as an option. And do it at your own pace, you know. That's also important for us to know. Report an error

1:53:53 Everybody's different. So at first it feels like we're just creating another fantasy and we already have a lot of those and how is this different? Report an error

1:54:03 It's actually helping us to understand the fantasy. It's helping us to understand what a fantasy our ordinary experience is. This is actually more real than that fantasy that we think of as so real. I think of Chokyi as so real. I think of my history that I can even remember of Chokyi as being so real. Report an error

1:54:26 I can see this body and so I believe in it as so real. And actually... It's all an experience of the mind. My experience of Chokyi is completely different than all of your experiences of Chokyi. It starts getting into this kind of weird level like that. And that's very, very true for our experiences with tantric practice too. It's all experienced at an inner level. And that's where wisdom is going to grow. Report an error

1:54:56 Anyway, it gives us a taste of what we are capable of and our power. Our strength. And all we can do is take the time to prove it to ourselves. I can't convince you. I can tell you some of my stories and that's what I'm doing. But ultimately you have to do the experiencing in order to see whether it has any effect on your own mind and your own life. Report an error

1:55:24 I want to do a couple of announcements and then we'll dedicate. Our practice day for this class is Saturday the 27th. August. It's 10.30 to 3.30, probably 4, depending on how many people come. So mark your calendars if you haven't already, please, please, And then the next Discovering Buddhism class starts on the 8th of September on the Mind, Mind and Its Potential. Report an error

1:56:04 Also mark your calendars. Teresa and I are starting to talk about doing some sort of day-long thing on September 11th for peace. We don't know yet what we're going to do, but if anybody has any time and they'd like to help, then that would be cool. We have some ideas on what we'd like to do. It's still very in the planning stage, but just mark your calendar if you can. Report an error

1:56:26 And also let me know if you have any time to give that day. That would be great. Report an error

1:56:34 It's a Sunday. Conveniently. Conveniently. So anyway. All right. So that's dedicate. So may anything that came up in this class, any quotes or any stories or anything at all, any seeds that came from or even from the questions that other students asked, may they make imprints on our minds that help. Take us all the way to enlightenment so that we can become these deities, these Buddhas that we read about, we think about. Report an error

1:57:17 But at this point they still seem like fantasy to us. May we embody them ourselves so that we can benefit all living beings. Report an error

1:57:35 Thank you. 901. I'm always so happy with myself and I'll just finish on the dot. Report an error

1:58:11 Or I can copy it. to try? Yeah, I can. It's going to be a Jenny Jessica moment. Report an error

1:58:22 You know what, Jess, you don't take one because I'm going to send you everything. I'll send it to you tonight and then I'll send you the homework too. Report an error

1:58:45 put on the subject line if it's easy, send it to me Report an error

1:58:56 wait. Report an error

1:59:01 I haven't. That's so weird. It must be going in here. Thank you. Report an error

1:59:13 found the time. Good. But I'm not going to be easier with that. I'll try sending it from my Gmail. Send it to Lchipi at Gmail, okay? Lchipi? Yeah. Okay, well, I'll try that. No, and other people. Report an error

1:59:37 Thank you. Thank you. Report an error

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Talk by Lobsang Chokyi, recorded 11 August 2011. Original at Tse Chen Ling Center for Tibetan Buddhist Studies via Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/LC_Tantra_20110616. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 3.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.

Recorded at Tse Chen Ling Center, San Francisco, and archived by the center on Internet Archive. More from Tse Chen Ling

Listen on Internet Archive · CC BY-NC-ND 3.0