Pilgrimage in India: Stories and Allegories

0:00 I don't really need a microphone. Oh, I see. Okay, good. All right. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:13 Well, let's sing a little prayer first. Report an error in the passage at 0:13 Highlight the passage at 0:13

0:18 Just taking refuge in the Buddha. The first part of the prayer. And the second part is reminding ourselves of an altruistic, to have an altruistic reason for doing this little thing together, listening to Buddha's teachings, in particular about this idea of pilgrimage. Report an error in the passage at 0:18 Highlight the passage at 0:18

0:35 Sangee cha-dan-so-ke-cha-nam-la, jancho-baru-dangni-kiap-su-chi, da-ge-cha-nyen-gi-pe-sa-nam-ki, dro-la-penchir-san-ge-drub-pa-su-chi. Sangee cha-dan-so-ke-cha-nam-la, jancho-baru-dangni-kiap-su-chi, da-ge-cha-nyen-gi-pe-sa-nam-ki, dro-la-penchir-san-ge-drub-pa-su-chi. Sangye cha ransokye cha nam la jaancho baru dangni kiapsu chi Da gi cha nyengi pa sonam ki dro ra penchir sangye dro bha sho Report an error in the passage at 0:35 Highlight the passage at 0:35

1:12 Okay. So now you get comfortable with your cup of coffee. Report an error in the passage at 1:12 Highlight the passage at 1:12

1:22 Well, this idea of pilgrimage. Report an error in the passage at 1:22 Highlight the passage at 1:22

1:28 Yeah, I mean, we can see it's really in all the religious traditions, isn't it? But maybe I'll just talk personally from the one that we do every year and just talk about it, really, because I haven't thought too much about what to say here. And I don't know, I haven't got anything very erudite to say about it. But I remember... Report an error in the passage at 1:28 Highlight the passage at 1:28

1:46 It was in 2001 when a friend of mine suggested why don't you need a pilgrimage to be in it. They said maybe it's a good way to get people and to maybe raise some money for the prison project. And I thought, well, that's interesting. I've never even done a pilgrimage. So we started one, actually, and we called it Chasing Buddha. And, of course, there was this film that someone made called Chasing Buddha about me. Report an error in the passage at 1:46 Highlight the passage at 1:46

2:10 So we called it Chasing Buddha. Actually, the first one, the person who helped me run it, she didn't like Chasing Buddha. She called it Finding Buddha. So we called it Finding Buddha the first year. But I like Chasing Buddha. So we called it Chasing Buddha from then on. So what they say about pilgrimage, and I'll tell you, I think from my experience, it's something I can see. Report an error in the passage at 2:10 Highlight the passage at 2:10

2:28 Every year we do one. We've had groups of, say, from anything from 15, well, 10, I think, 10 to 25 people, something like that, going to this, on this traditional little one that we do where we would go to the different places of the Buddha. We kind of follow in the footsteps of the Buddha, some parts of where the Buddha used to go in his lifetime. Report an error in the passage at 2:28 Highlight the passage at 2:28

2:50 And I remember I was really the very first one and every year the same. I just came back from another one. Every year the same. It's really amazed me how it deeply moves everybody. It's really, really surprising. Many people who come on this pilgrimage aren't really Buddhist, kind of like Buddhism, sort of have the idea of Buddhism, haven't got much of a practice. Report an error in the passage at 2:50 Highlight the passage at 2:50

3:14 But every single year I would say, first of all, the group... Gets along incredibly well. And one year we had this Indian lady who was kind of functioning as a tour guide for a certain period of it. She said she was very surprised at how harmonious the group was. She said every tour guide, every tour she ever does, people within a day or so all getting into cliques and they kind of badmouth each other and get all kind of have troubles and dramas. Report an error in the passage at 3:14 Highlight the passage at 3:14

3:39 But she was very surprised how harmonious this group was. And that's what I've noticed every single year for a start. It's quite remarkable how, you know, because we spend a month together, we arrive in Kathmandu, I'll tell you the route we take later, but much of the time, you know, especially two weeks of it, we're on a bus in India. Report an error in the passage at 3:39 Highlight the passage at 3:39

3:57 We have our own bus, our own driver, and there we are, sometimes 10, 15 hours in a bus, driving, stopping off, having a chai, you know, peeing behind the bushes. Report an error in the passage at 3:57 Highlight the passage at 3:57

4:07 I'm utterly amazed every year, with this intense amount of time spent together, sharing rooms in hotels, that people... Are amazingly harmonious, become incredibly strongly connected, love each other, kind of this group, you know, and develop a relationship with each other. It's been very, very interesting to see that. Report an error in the passage at 4:07 Highlight the passage at 4:07

4:25 But the other one is, you know, because when you go on a group, you're kind of going as a tourist to a place and you take photos and you kind of enjoy yourself, you go shopping. But because the very first one we did, I told Lama Zopa Rinpoche, you know, Lama Zopa, who's our teacher, about it. So he spent a couple of hours on the phone with me, giving me instructions. Report an error in the passage at 4:25 Highlight the passage at 4:25

4:43 About what practices to do at each one. The way he always says that going to these places, you want to feel, and I see it with people, more than just a tourist. You don't want to just be a tourist. You don't want to just go there and take pictures. And by doing these simple little practices, traditional little Buddhist things, we go, we circumambulate, we think a certain way, we do mantras, we do some prostrations, we do different practices at each place. Report an error in the passage at 4:43 Highlight the passage at 4:43

5:06 Never more than, say, 45 minutes, hour, hour and a half maybe. People love this. We do water bowl offerings. We bring our bottles of water. We have this kind of whole ritual that we do. And what I found is that people love to do this. Everybody feels the same way. They always feel that you're more than just a tourist. Report an error in the passage at 5:06 Highlight the passage at 5:06

5:23 You've got something to do when you go there. Often we dedicate it to world peace and these kinds of things. But the other thing is, they say about this, I mean, when I talked to Lama Zopa on the phone first and he gave the different practices, like, for example, one place called Shravasti. Which you'd rarely go to on your own because there's no real transport there. It's not a tourist spot at all. And so when you do go, because you go on a bus, you go in a group, you know, you see no tourists. Report an error in the passage at 5:23 Highlight the passage at 5:23

5:46 You see virtually no tourists. The only people who go to Shravasti are people who want to go to the Buddhist places, you know. You know, for example, Rinpoche said this is where the Buddha, they say this is where the Buddha spent his, did his rains retreat every year for about 25 years. He and his disciples would spend the rainy season in retreat meditating at this place. Report an error in the passage at 5:46 Highlight the passage at 5:46

6:04 And so of course all of these places, they're all maintained by the Indian government and they're all these, you know, and they're all the ruins of, you know, ruins of these places where the Buddha stayed. So I'm trying to say it's acres and acres and there's just these few bricks, you know. But they say at this place at Shravasti, Rinpoche said that when people go there... Report an error in the passage at 6:04 Highlight the passage at 6:04

6:24 You can meditate really well there. I mean, these people, the Buddha and his disciples, spent every summer, three months of the rainy season for 25 years at this place, meditating. And he said the people who meditate find that you can meditate really easily at this place. Meditation is really easy. So what I found, and people, they'd know all these things, nice and theoretical, but the number of people who would have really special dreams, I mean, they'd be in tears, a special, amazing dream, you know, Report an error in the passage at 6:24 Highlight the passage at 6:24

6:54 The number of people who said, it was almost like a mantra, who said their practice deepened, those who had some practice and those who'd never thought they were Buddhists began to develop a practice, you know. Or, for example, special meditation, special experiences. Your mind kind of gets really touched by these places in a way that, I mean, I don't have these kind of experiences, but I remember one time, you know, talking about, say, because what we do is one of the things we do also, we'd have teachings. Report an error in the passage at 6:54 Highlight the passage at 6:54

7:21 So I remember the one we did most recently, and we were at, Report an error in the passage at 7:21 Highlight the passage at 7:21

7:28 Saranath, Deer Park, the first place that Buddha taught after he became enlightened. He travelled there from Bodhgaya, which if you drive is about 10 hours in this big bus on a rickety road, you know. But surely, I mean, Buddha walked everywhere. Lord knows how long he took, but he obviously walked there. He spent his life walking around this part of India. Report an error in the passage at 7:28 Highlight the passage at 7:28

7:48 And he walked from Bodh Gaiwa, became enlightened and he went to Saranath. He heard about his disciples there, these five disciples that he had spent years meditating with when he was doing all these ascetic practices and then he went off and did his other practices and they rejected him because they thought he was a phony by giving up all these ascetic practices. Report an error in the passage at 7:48 Highlight the passage at 7:48

8:04 So he went there and he heard that they were there and he went there and he taught them the Four Noble Truths. So I remember the last time we were there we were talking about emptiness. But I remember myself even, I remember feeling somehow some kind of clarity. In a way, talking about emptiness in a very particular way, talking about it in a very clear way. Somehow it seemed a lot clearer and a lot easier to even talk about it. So this is something I've really found. Report an error in the passage at 8:04 Highlight the passage at 8:04

8:27 Not everybody, but so many. I've lost count of the times that people have had these similar kind of experiences. Special experiences. You're in tears. The practice has deepened. It's been so special. You know, special dreams, special meditations. Really special, some people. Like, deeply moved. Many people have said, this has changed my life. Report an error in the passage at 8:27 Highlight the passage at 8:27

8:47 And what, I mean, where you are in this smelly old country, you know, India, difficult, dirty, hot sometimes, it depends on when you go. We'd go on the kind of just the end of the summer, end of the rainy, end of when it was really beginning to become cool. Report an error in the passage at 8:47 Highlight the passage at 8:47

9:02 That these places maintained by the, you know, the government, you get bombarded by beggars, you know, it's kind of difficult. The food sometimes, we usually go to very good places, very nice hotels and say you have very good food. Some people would get sick, you get diarrhoea, which is really common. Report an error in the passage at 9:02 Highlight the passage at 9:02

9:18 Nevertheless, you know, people deeply moved by the experience, you know, deeply moved by it. I find it totally interesting. Every year the same. I just find you watch lots of these groups kind of bonding, having this very special experience. Report an error in the passage at 9:18 Highlight the passage at 9:18

9:30 So that all seems all very nice, but so big deal. Okay, yeah, big deal. What then, you know? Why do it? What's the benefit? Well, I think I'm supposed to really understand the benefit besides just having these nice experiences, which seems nice because we all want nice experiences. Report an error in the passage at 9:30 Highlight the passage at 9:30

9:47 I think it's enhanced, it's strengthened when we understand the way the mind works and we understand karma. Because as we know from the Buddhist teachings, every single thing we think, every microsecond of whatever we think, everything we do, everything we see, everything we hear, everything we taste, everything we touch, whatever you have contact with and every thought you have, it leaves an imprint in your mind. Report an error in the passage at 9:47 Highlight the passage at 9:47

10:12 It leaves an imprint in your mind, a seed. So this is kind of important. As far as the Buddha's teachings are concerned. Because what we're attempting to do in our own individual life, on our own path, is accumulate positive seeds, which are the ones that are the source of our happiness. We all want happiness and we don't want suffering. So the most fundamental way of practicing, as far as the Buddha's teachings are concerned, is to accumulate virtuous karma. Report an error in the passage at 10:12 Highlight the passage at 10:12

10:42 Have positive thoughts. Leave positive seeds in the mind. Do positive things and refrain from the negative. The most simple way of saying what a Buddhist practice is, is exactly that. And why? Because the positive seeds ripen as happiness and the negative seeds ripen as suffering. As we know, as far as the Buddhist teaching is concerned. Report an error in the passage at 10:42 Highlight the passage at 10:42

11:06 No one created us. We're the creators of ourselves. Our mind goes back and back and forward, forward. And what occurs in our mind from moment to moment, our lives, our happiness, our suffering, is determined by our past seeds. We are the creators of ourselves, basically. So all the more we realise this, going on a pilgrimage, for example, isn't just some sentimental thing you do, just to have a nice feeling. Report an error in the passage at 11:06 Highlight the passage at 11:06

11:30 You know, it's a very powerful... An easy way to leave very strong seeds of virtue in your mind. And so, of course, additionally, it leaves a strong seed of connection with the Buddha. Because everything, you know, if you have a strong karmic connection with one person, you're going to meet him again. You know, if you hate a certain person, you're going to keep meeting him and keep having a horrible time together. Report an error in the passage at 11:30 Highlight the passage at 11:30

11:52 So clearly, if you want to have happiness, and as well as this, you want to develop your own qualities, develop your wisdom, develop your compassion, which is what the path is all about. Report an error in the passage at 11:52 Highlight the passage at 11:52

12:02 Then obviously you want to accumulate lots of virtuous seeds that if you want to continue to have a Buddhist connection will keep a strong Buddhist connection with the Buddha, with the Buddha's teachings, with the Buddha himself. So going in the same, following in the footsteps of the Buddha, this guaranteed way to have a strong connection with the Buddha. So from a very practical point of view for a person who likes the Buddha's path, from the long term point of view you'd say it's a necessary thing to do. Report an error in the passage at 12:02 Highlight the passage at 12:02

12:32 From the short term point of view, anybody who wants to have a good experience and see the places of the Buddha and so think about the Buddha's teachings, it's a great thing to do, you know. Report an error in the passage at 12:32 Highlight the passage at 12:32

12:45 I've finished. Report an error in the passage at 12:45 Highlight the passage at 12:45

12:52 So maybe I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll go through, I'll just talk about each of the places we go to and kind of a little bit the benefits, I mean, what the places are. I have to say I'm not very good at all this historical stuff. I should have done some homework but I didn't. But let me talk how we do our pilgrimage, you know. So we refined it kind of every year. We sort of cut things out and really sort of fine-tuned it every year, you know. Report an error in the passage at 12:52 Highlight the passage at 12:52

13:19 Some of you who've been on it know. So the first place we go, and this is not really part of where the Buddha was, but it's certainly Buddhist, we start in Kathmandu. Because that's where Lama Zopa Rinpoche and Lama Yeshi had their first monastery. You know, at Bodanath, this amazing place. And of course, there's this very, very special Buddhist place there that mightn't be on the route of Lord Buddha, Mr Shakyamuni, two and a half thousand years ago, where he walked, you know, but it's certainly a very, very powerful Buddhist place. Report an error in the passage at 13:19 Highlight the passage at 13:19

13:46 And it's one that's particularly connected for the Tibetans, because many of them, when they came into exile, went to Kathmandu. And many of them started to live around this amazing ancient old stupa. It's very, very vague about how old it is, but it has to be at least a thousand years old. Probably two, probably 15. I just don't know what they say, actually. Many people here say different things. But this amazing old stoop, but it's quite a unique shape, as you've seen, if you've seen pictures, round one, completely circular, with the eyes on the square part of the top, you know, and lots of prayer flags. Report an error in the passage at 13:46 Highlight the passage at 13:46

14:19 And quite big. It takes probably seven minutes to walk around it. Quite a big one. And so what's developed around there, and this is sort of, again, very ancient, is this little village, you know, all the way around this circular. So you walk in a gate, and then this big, this path. And then there's shops all the way around. You know, of course, masses of tourists these days. But the Tibetans have completely taken the place over. And that's where one of the first groups of them would go there and start, you know, having their houses right there. Report an error in the passage at 14:19 Highlight the passage at 14:19

14:46 So Bodh Gaya now is huge, you know, really, really busy. Masses of Tibetans. It's like a Tibetan town, you know. So there's this wonderful story. Report an error in the passage at 14:46 Highlight the passage at 14:46

14:56 Of course, probably historically no one takes any notice of because you don't find your sources and you can't exactly say who said what. So it's all kind of passed down orally. But there's a story, the way the Lama Zopa tells it, and you hear variations of this story, that there was this old mother, as he would tell the story, with her sons. Report an error in the passage at 14:56 Highlight the passage at 14:56

15:12 They really had wanted to build this stupor, so somehow they managed to build this vast stupor. And, gosh, I should have my pilgrimage book, shouldn't I? Have you got a copy of it, Sarah? Do you know where one is? You do. Thanks. Bring it to me. Report an error in the passage at 15:12 Highlight the passage at 15:12

15:40 Did you buy only about millions of books out there? Report an error in the passage at 15:40 Highlight the passage at 15:40

15:46 Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 15:46 Highlight the passage at 15:46

15:50 All these books left over from the conference. Did you have a look at them all? What's your Christmas presents? Report an error in the passage at 15:50 Highlight the passage at 15:50

16:01 What darling? Sure. I think he's alright. I haven't heard anything to the contrary. I think he's in India right now. Report an error in the passage at 16:01 Highlight the passage at 16:01

16:22 Lucky. Report an error in the passage at 16:22 Highlight the passage at 16:22

16:25 He's coming to California in April. Santa Barbara. for a day, 24th of April, I think. something like that I don't know the details Report an error in the passage at 16:25 Highlight the passage at 16:25

16:40 So anyway, I won't wait for Sarah to know when she's going to come. But, um, but, God, there's this mother who decided she wanted Bodinath. Bodinath. Report an error in the passage at 16:40 Highlight the passage at 16:40

16:57 Bodinath. Bodinath. prayer and I think they said they stood there and they um one of them made a prayer she comes thank you Sarah Report an error in the passage at 16:57 Highlight the passage at 16:57

17:00 So I'll just read this. So the story about bodhicitta is important. It's incredibly inspiring. Hearing it, you will really understand the benefits of circumambulating it, of cleaning it and sweeping it the whole day and night. This is from Rinpoche. So the stupa was built by the mother, Jatsima, who looked after her chickens. They were an extremely poor family, I think. She wanted to build a stupa very, very much, so she asked the king of Nepal for permission to get the land. Report an error in the passage at 17:00 Highlight the passage at 17:00

17:22 Normally the king wouldn't give permission, but somehow, maybe due to her karma, the king said, OK, it can be done. This just slipped out of his mouth. Report an error in the passage at 17:22 Highlight the passage at 17:22

17:31 This is why the Tibetans call it Jarung Kashor Chorten. Jarung is, it can be done. Kashor is slipped out of the mouth. That's the name of the Bodnath Stupa. There you go, slipped out of the mouth stupa. So, and then Chorten is of course Tibetan for stupa. So the mother passed away after she completed up to the vase, the dome-like structure, you know, before the very top part. Report an error in the passage at 17:31 Highlight the passage at 17:31

17:52 She had four sons and they completed the rest of the stupa. So after they finished it, they all stood up in front of it and made prayers. Everyone had a wish. When they were praying, all the buddhas and the bodhisattvas absorbed into the stupa, which is why the stupa, the name of the stupa is also called all-encompassing. Report an error in the passage at 17:52 Highlight the passage at 17:52

18:10 It's also called wish-fulfilling because it's so powerful. This is what they talk about. This is how they talk about it, you know. That anybody who makes prayers to the stupa, their wishes are fulfilled, especially when you see the stupa for the very first time. Whatever you pray for, it will succeed. Report an error in the passage at 18:10 Highlight the passage at 18:10

18:27 Even from the airplane. So I always try to remember when people fall, people go on, they hop on their airplane from wherever they're going and you go via Bangkok and then you fly to Kathmandu. Then when you're going down, depending on what side of the plane you are, you see the stupa. So I always tell people, if you notice the stupa, don't forget your prayer. Don't forget your wish. So even from the airplane, the first time you see it, you must do your prayer, your best prayer. Report an error in the passage at 18:27 Highlight the passage at 18:27

18:48 Remembering the word prayer in Tibetan really is equivalent to the word aspiration, wish. The wish, stating a strong wish that something be so, you know, which if you think about it is what we do all the time, this is the meaning of karma. You sit there being angry with somebody, you're making very negative prayers basically, aren't you? Report an error in the passage at 18:48 Highlight the passage at 18:48

19:07 You sit there being positive about somebody, you're making very positive prayers, may all beings be happy, may this, may that. Every thought counts, remember, every thought throws a seed in your mind. Report an error in the passage at 19:07 Highlight the passage at 19:07

19:18 So one Brazilian nun, Akar Gupa, knew this story. So when she saw the stupa for the first time, she made a prayer to be able to build monasteries. So when she went back, everything happened. She made plans and she was able to build. There are other stories like this. So anyway, when the brothers were standing in front of the stupa, the oldest brother made a prayer. Report an error in the passage at 19:18 Highlight the passage at 19:18

19:36 May I become a Dharma king in Tibet, the snow land. You know, so historically speaking, we all think, well, how do they know about Tibet, these little chicken farmers, you know? But we don't ask those questions. Report an error in the passage at 19:36 Highlight the passage at 19:36

19:49 So the next brother heard this prayer, heard his prayer and he said, may I become a minister to help him spread the Dharma. And the next son prayed, may I be an abbot to pass on the lineage of the ordinations in Tibet, you know, monasticism. And the next one made a prayer, may I become a powerful yogi when there are obstacles to spreading Dharma in Tibet. So in the next life then, the oldest brother became a Dharma king, Songsten Gampo in Tibet. Report an error in the passage at 19:49 Highlight the passage at 19:49

20:13 The Dharma king who made the two, you know, he's the Dharma king who had the two princesses who had brought the statues of Shakyamuni Buddha, one at the Jokang and the other at the Ramoshe. One was Chinese and one was Nepalese. He did great activities to benefit all sentient beings and I think he also helped to build the Jokang. The second brother, he became a minister in Tibet, Padma Gung Tsen. Report an error in the passage at 20:13 Highlight the passage at 20:13

20:32 The third brother became Shantarak Shita, the abbot, one of the first monasteries. And the fourth brother became Padma Zambhava. So there you go. You can take that as a nice story. Proving it? I wouldn't have a clue. Report an error in the passage at 20:32 Highlight the passage at 20:32

20:49 So when they were building the first monastery in central Tibet, Samye, this must be in the 7th century, so this is the 7th century, 8th century, 700 and something. That's 17, 18, 19, 20, so that's already 1,300 years ago. So there must have been 15, so maybe the stupidest 1,500 years if this is true. So when they were building this monastery, Samye, the first one there, during the day the people would build and then at night spirits would tear it down. Report an error in the passage at 20:49 Highlight the passage at 20:49

21:16 They talk about this kind of sentient beings called spirits, disembodied beings, many of whom can be quite negative, quite harmful, born as a spirit due to very strong attachment to certain places, to certain people, to certain things and ideas, and so being very destructive to anything that doesn't support that. Report an error in the passage at 21:16 Highlight the passage at 21:16

21:35 This is how they would talk about spirits. So one of the ministers suggested that they invite Padmasambhava from India, who is this great Indian yogi. So when they came, he manifested as a Buddha. Called, I think, controlling the three realms. This Buddha hooked the spirits, kind of subdued them, making them pledge to become Dharma protectors. Report an error in the passage at 21:35 Highlight the passage at 21:35

21:54 So they stayed around him on the mountain to protect the Dharma in Tibet. So therefore... Mahāyāna Buddhism in Tibet has spread and been preserved for many years and so many beings have actualized the path and become enlightened. And because of this, you know, the Dharma in Tibet has spread all over the world. Report an error in the passage at 21:54 Highlight the passage at 21:54

22:12 So even in the West, many tens of thousands of people every year are able to follow the path to enlightenment and are able to make their lives meaningful and to find peace and happiness. And so including us, we have the chance to practice the lamrim, to be able to purify every day, to become closer and closer to liberation from saṃsāra and to enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 22:12 Highlight the passage at 22:12

22:29 These are the two principal aspects of the path to enlightenment and on top of that, all the tantric teachings, etc. So all these opportunities that we and many others have in everyday life, all this comes from the bodhis stupa. This is one way that Rinpoche would talk about the stupa. So for Tibetans, it's one of the most precious things. They love this place, you know. And again, I mean, I really don't talk like this very often. I don't have special experiences at all. Report an error in the passage at 22:29 Highlight the passage at 22:29

22:50 But you just have to, you just kind of, when you're there, you know, you just have to say, you feel something kind of powerful, something special. And this is the thing I'm thinking people too who really have not even very Buddhist and haven't been to these places before. Something kind of deeply touched by these places. And this place is packed with people. Report an error in the passage at 22:50 Highlight the passage at 22:50

23:08 Actually, this is an interesting story. One of the things they say when you, you know, if you're a meditator and you want to go into the mountains and you find an appropriate place to meditate, there are certain, a whole series of kind of criteria really that you use to determine that the place is useful, is the best place to meditate, you know. Report an error in the passage at 23:08 Highlight the passage at 23:08

23:30 And one would be that it be peaceful, one is that they're not wild animals, one that you haven't got running water because you need very, you know, especially if you're doing concentration retreat, you need to be very quiet. One would be, you know, that you have good food, you have friends to support you, you know, like this. So you can really have a comfortable, undisturbed retreat. Report an error in the passage at 23:30 Highlight the passage at 23:30

23:48 One of the most important ones, they say, is that it's a place that's been blessed by the presence of holy beings, other meditators. Whatever, you know. So a friend of ours, you know very well, Venerable René, this wonderful Swiss monk who's based at Madrapani in Boulder Creek. Report an error in the passage at 23:48 Highlight the passage at 23:48

24:08 We interviewed him in Mandela magazine years ago, 15 years ago, 13 years ago, 15 years ago, Report an error in the passage at 24:08 Highlight the passage at 24:08

24:17 13 years ago. And it was about his, he's been doing long retreat, he's like a professional retreater, has been meditating now for, I don't know, more than 20 years. 30 years, getting on for 30 years, off and on in different places, intensive retreats here and there, you know. So at this particular time he was doing a retreat in, he had done a retreat in Spain at this centre called Urseling, which is this place where the reincarnation of Lama Yeshi, you know, the Lama, where he was born, the young Spanish Lama. Report an error in the passage at 24:17 Highlight the passage at 24:17

24:45 And it's, you know, it was blessed by His Holiness, the Dalai Lama in 1982. And His Holiness, when he was there, I remember I was present, he said it really moved him deeply, this place, a very special place. He said it reminded him of Tibet. It's way up high in the mountains. Lovely, lovely place. Really a special feeling, this place. So Rene was meditating there for a couple of years. But he said he knew his mind couldn't get more subtle there. Report an error in the passage at 24:45 Highlight the passage at 24:45

25:08 When you're doing single point of concentration meditation, your mind gets, you know, especially when you're new at it, it seems, your mind gets very subtle. He said even the slightest wind. It could really disturb your mind, you know, because you really need to find the right conditions. So he said he knew his mind couldn't get more subtle. They talk about going through the nine stages of concentration. Report an error in the passage at 25:08 Highlight the passage at 25:08

25:28 So he got about, he said he just touched upon the fifth, he said, stage. So anyway, he left there and I was interviewing him at Kolpan, Kolpan Monastery, which is where when people arrive after Kathmandu a couple of days, I'll follow through the pilgrimage, we go to Kolpan Monastery on a hill in the Kathmandu Valley. Report an error in the passage at 25:28 Highlight the passage at 25:28

25:48 Which is where Lama Zopa and Lama Yeshi first went after they escaped from Tibet and spent a couple of years in northern India, then eventually came there to start this monastery, Kopan Monastery, which is now 300 monks and nuns, 600 monks and nuns, really thriving, amazing place of learning. And I was interviewing Rene at Kopan. So now these days, unlike in the 70s when they first went there, when it was totally quiet, when all the, you know, there was just... Report an error in the passage at 25:48 Highlight the passage at 25:48

26:17 All the way around, 360 degrees, fields, you know, an hour, 45 minutes to Bodanath, completely pure, clear air, you know, in the mountains, absolutely gorgeous, hardly any villages. But now it's just everywhere you turn, unbelievably busy, so many places, so many villages, the sound of dogs up at five in the morning, you hear the Hindus with their loud music on, because, you know, the louder they have their music, their praises to Shiva and people, that's what they do, you know, so it's really busy, even early morning. Report an error in the passage at 26:17 Highlight the passage at 26:17

26:45 Many noises coming up from the valley. The monastery full of all these monks. The nunnery down the road. And I was interviewing him at this place. But this is my point. He said what is interesting for him, that without effort, meditating at Kopan, his mind became more subtle more easily. Why? It wasn't quiet. It's because it's a very blessed place. And that's one of the things they all say, and Rinpoche says this, about Kathmandu Valley. I mean, there's a story here. Report an error in the passage at 26:45 Highlight the passage at 26:45

27:14 I'll read it. Again, one of these stories that nobody could prove in history books about the valley. He doesn't say very much about it. About Swayambunath. Here Report an error in the passage at 27:14 Highlight the passage at 27:14

27:39 it is now. 13. Report an error in the passage at 27:39 Highlight the passage at 27:39

27:46 Oh, here it is. He says, very short, he says it has its own story. You know, the essence of this is at one time Kathmandu was filled like a lake, is what they say. A crystal stupa appeared from the lake. Guess what? Which was the embodiment of the Buddha's holy mind. So this crystal stupa is now in the Swayambu stupa. Report an error in the passage at 27:46 Highlight the passage at 27:46

28:05 This was predicted by Shakyamuni Buddha himself. It was the most precious one in Kathmandu. So the whole mountain that the stupa is on is regarded as the Buddha Chakrasambhava Buddha's Mandala Palace. Ordinary people see a mountain, but high yogis see a mandala. It's a very, very holy place, the whole mountain. And that is why people go around the whole mountain at the bottom. Report an error in the passage at 28:05 Highlight the passage at 28:05

28:26 It takes about three hours to walk around. But also I've heard the story that Manjushri came along with his sword, the Buddha of Wisdom, and he sort of cut a hole. in the valley and it drained it of the water. Guess what? So now it's this, you know, this place with no So you hear many of the meditators, many of the Tibetans say this place is very, very blessed. Report an error in the passage at 28:26 Highlight the passage at 28:26

28:48 So you know Rene's experience, a person who's meditated for years and years, there's this place, busy, noisy, but his mind naturally becomes more subtle, more easily. This is not something at a gross level. Because on the gross level, it's unbelievably polluted these days. You drive in Kathmandu, you can hardly move because of the traffic. But it's just packed with holy places, these little ancient little pilgrimage places, you know. Report an error in the passage at 28:48 Highlight the passage at 28:48

29:14 You go through the bazaar, and one of the things we often do on the pilgrimage, before we leave Kathmandu for India, we go to the middle of the village, packed solid with people. And suddenly you walk down this little alley and around the corner, and there's this ancient little statue, you know, in a tiny little shrine. Report an error in the passage at 29:14 Highlight the passage at 29:14

29:30 There's people hanging there washing on it, all this shopping, you know, little house all the way around. This statue, for example, there's a statue of Manjushri, there's one of Chenrezig and there's one of Tara. Well, the Tara statue apparently is the one that used to talk to Artisha back in the 11th century. And the one of Chenrezig, guess what, flew from Tibet. Report an error in the passage at 29:30 Highlight the passage at 29:30

29:49 How about that? They have all these stories, you know, about these statues. But you see them, they're very old and very strange and very ancient looking. But like I said, you know, even if you're cynical... You kind of can't help but get some kind of nice feeling from these places, you know. It's very interesting. You feel some kind of power, honestly. I'm not trying to sound too esoteric about it. So Kathmandu is said to be incredibly blessed, you know. Report an error in the passage at 29:49 Highlight the passage at 29:49

30:14 So anyway, people arrive, come from their country, come from Australia, America, wherever, and it's like a good 35 hours to get there because you've got to go first to Bangkok, stay overnight, hop on a plane, get to Kathmandu. And it's clearly poor, you know, you meet at the airport, it's really poor, all the rickety roads and blah blah, and you're kind of waiting for kind of poor. And then suddenly we end up at this luxury hotel. Report an error in the passage at 30:14 Highlight the passage at 30:14

30:34 Because I figured, when I did this pilgrimage, I decided to do a really good combination, you know, of doing monasteries in all the holy places, eating at ordinary Indian places, but really nice hotels. Because you can get very sick there very easily, you know. So for people, most of whom come on this pilgrimage have never been to India before. Report an error in the passage at 30:34 Highlight the passage at 30:34

30:53 Most of whom are not 20, you know, middle-aged women like most of us here. Are we middle-aged women? Oh, no, he's not a middle-aged woman. She's not middle-aged, nor are you. Okay, but sort of like many people who've never been to India before but take the opportunity of going in a group, you know. And so really I'm just delighted when we get to this beautiful hotel. Report an error in the passage at 30:53 Highlight the passage at 30:53

31:14 It's like a vast, it's near Boda and it's on one side of the hotel you can see the stupa, you know. And it's Nepalese architecture and really nice food. So people kind of feel so delighted to be in this gorgeous environment, you know, very lovely architecture. So we stay there a couple of nights, people hang out, relax, you know. And then we go up to Kopan. We spend six days there. And the first four days we do a course, an intensive course, you know, Dharma course, Buddhism, meditation and teachings. Report an error in the passage at 31:14 Highlight the passage at 31:14

31:41 So even this is already fascinating, you know, people... End up loving the monastery. I remember many times people would say after this four days, this six days, they would happily have gone home again, feeling very content, very fulfilled. This monastery, you know, began, was Lama Zopa Rinpoche. He was a Sherpa. Report an error in the passage at 31:41 Highlight the passage at 31:41

32:03 He is said to be the reincarnation of a local yogi. Kun Sangyeshi, who was a Nyingma yogi, a Nyingma meditator who passed away in 46 or something, or 45, whenever. And then Lama Zopa said to be his reincarnation. And this little boy, apparently his mother said that since the time he could crawl, as soon as she'd turn her back, little Zopa's up this mountain path where they all knew Kun Sangyeshi's cave was. Report an error in the passage at 32:03 Highlight the passage at 32:03

32:26 He'd spent the last 30 years of his life meditating there, this Kun Sangyeshi, and he'd passed away there. He was considered a great meditator, you know. So this little boy would be up this garden path. So the moment he could talk, every time the mother turned her back, he'd be up this thing, up this path, getting back to this cave. So from the time he could talk, apparently, his sister would say that his mother would smack him. Report an error in the passage at 32:26 Highlight the passage at 32:26

32:46 Come on home. He'd say, no, that is my home. So, you know, he was eventually recognised by the local lamas as the reincarnation of this Kunsangeshi, this yogi. And he was known as the Laudo Lama. Laudo means radishes, I think. And this little cave that he said he got, that he kind of, he moved in. He chucked the radishes out and moved in, you know. Report an error in the passage at 32:46 Highlight the passage at 32:46

33:05 Used to contain the radishes. So he's known as the Radish Lama. Report an error in the passage at 33:05 Highlight the passage at 33:05

33:11 So Lama Zopa went to Kathmandu. He promised, and when he was very old, Kunsan Gheshi, he was asked by the local people to start a school for the local boys, you know, a monastery. He said he was too old, but he promised in his next life he would do it. And so when Lama Zopa was about, I forget what year, maybe 71, he was probably 46, 46, 66, about 25. Report an error in the passage at 33:11 Highlight the passage at 33:11

33:34 And he went back up there. He'd been in Kathmandu. Because he was in Tibet in 1959 when all the thing happened, so he ended up going into exile in Nepal, in India, with a lot of the other Tibetans. And then he went back to Kathmandu when he met Lama Yeshi, who was his main teacher in that life. Well, one of his main teachers. And so when he was there in 1971, he said he'd fulfil the promise he'd made in his last life, so he started a monastery and he called it Mount Everest Centre. Report an error in the passage at 33:34 Highlight the passage at 33:34

34:00 And about 30 of the local boys, five of them were young reincarnated little lamas and they all started this monastery. And so in the winter they'd go down the valley, go to Kathmandu, which is a 10-day walk from there, to Kopan Monastery. So how that occurred was in 59 when they both escaped, Lama Yeshi from Tibet, from Lhasa, went to this place in North India where the... Report an error in the passage at 34:00 Highlight the passage at 34:00

34:27 The Lamas and all the monks were kind of kept and it used to be a concentration camp it seems. Lama Zopa would call it this. What was it called? Baksadur. And they were all stationed there, you know, until they started sorting themselves out and starting their monasteries again. And it was like hell on earth because many of the Tibetans, and still when Tibetans come out of exile now, they all die like flies because they go down to this lower, lower, lower, lower, you know, thingamy, altitude, and they get TV. Report an error in the passage at 34:27 Highlight the passage at 34:27

34:57 We get very sick. TB is a very common disease. So Lama Rinpoche, when he was 14, he had been in a Tibetan village and so he escaped and went to this place and then he was put together with Lama Yeshi. This was in about 1960, so Lama Zopa then was about 15, 14. And Lama Yeshi was 10 years older. So Lama Yeshi was sort of given the responsibility of taking care of this young tulku, you know. Report an error in the passage at 34:57 Highlight the passage at 34:57

35:19 So they stayed together until Lama Yeshi passed away in 1984. 84, 84, yeah. So, There they were in this place and then eventually, because Lama Zopa got TB when he was a young boy, when he was about 16, he got TB. So they went to Darjeeling to get for his chest and then eventually, then in Darjeeling they met their first Western student. Report an error in the passage at 35:19 Highlight the passage at 35:19

35:40 This was about 1967. They met this American woman, or European American. She wanted teachings and she became their main student, she became a nun. And then eventually in about 1971, 1970, 1969, 1970, they moved down to Kathmandu where many already... About 10 years now, the Tibetans had been congregating. And there was a Tibetan monastery right there in Boda. And so, of course, at the same time, all these hippies from the West. Report an error in the passage at 35:40 Highlight the passage at 35:40

36:04 It was, you know, the beginning of the hippie kind of onslaught into Tibet. I mean, Nepal. They'd been going there for years, but suddenly, you know, the hippie days. So what was so interesting was because, you know... You'd see pictures of many of the hippies looking like Indians, looking like Nepalese people, wearing Nepalese and Tibetan clothing because it looked like kind of really radical to us. You'd see a Tibetan man with his hair in plaits and his earrings. Report an error in the passage at 36:04 Highlight the passage at 36:04

36:24 So for us that looked kind of very wow, you know, so that was what we thought hippies were. So for many years people just made this connection between Tibetans and hippies. But the fact is Tibetans are incredibly conservative people, you know. If they were Americans they'd be wearing shirts and ties and gloves and handbags, you know. Report an error in the passage at 36:24 Highlight the passage at 36:24

36:40 Totally conservative people. So it was really such an anomaly to put them two together. It was just ridiculous. Westerners should think they were like these far out, spaced out people. They were actually very conservative. So all this American woman, Zina... She had a lot of friends from Hollywood and all these druggie friends and she would try to trot out her two llamas. They were like her toy boys, you know. I mean, it wasn't meant to be disrespectful, but that was how they were treated. Report an error in the passage at 36:40 Highlight the passage at 36:40

37:03 Like these two toy boys, they'd bring them out and have all their parties and be smoking dope and they'd bring out their little llamas over their little llamas and present them to all their dopey friends, you know. So this is kind of interesting life these two llamas had at the time, living in Kathmandu. Report an error in the passage at 37:03 Highlight the passage at 37:03

37:15 And of course, Xena, because she was thinking, oh, these are humble monks, so she gave them the crummy room and she gave herself the best room, you know. I mean, because she thought, oh, they're humble, so you give them humble things. And even would sometimes feed them with a tin can. I mean, really basic things, you know. I think Lama Zopa said, we really practiced Dharma while we knew them. Report an error in the passage at 37:15 Highlight the passage at 37:15

37:34 And they were meant to be her teachers, you know. Apparently she's this really arrogant lady, kind of queened around all these people smoking their marijuana, meeting these toyboy llamas. Anyway, whatever, they were very sincere, so gradually developing some kind of, you know, relationship with quite a few of these Westerners. And then I remember Lama Zopa in the preface of one book that I edited of his, he was talking about when they first found Kopan Monastery. Report an error in the passage at 37:34 Highlight the passage at 37:34

37:59 And it's on this, and it's from Kathmandu, from Bodo, you see it on a hill, you know. Now the hill's really cluttered, full of lots and lots of monasteries, but then there's just this little kind of Nepalese building, this hill called Kopan. And there's this one little Hindu temple up there. And it seemed it was the home of the king's astrologer. Report an error in the passage at 37:59 Highlight the passage at 37:59

38:21 He lived up there. So somehow Zina... So Lama Zopa said that he would see Lama Yishi looking out the window, looking at this hill. And he would say... And that was the Kopan hill. So they eventually went there. So Zina somehow managed to get it and they bought it, I think. And so they moved up there. Report an error in the passage at 38:21 Highlight the passage at 38:21

38:37 I don't remember when, 1970 or something. And so by then there was this kind of little group of Western students, many Americans, some Australians mostly, some Europeans. No Asians at this point besides, you know, mostly all Europeans and Australians, Americans. So they began, I think, having their first teachings. So Rinpoche asked, Lama Yeshe asked Rinpoche to teach a lamrim course, a traditional Tibetan Buddhist course, you know. Report an error in the passage at 38:37 Highlight the passage at 38:37

39:01 So by this point, Lama Zopa and Lama Yeshe, they'd already learned, began to learn English. Lama Zopa said when he first came out into exile, he felt compelled to learn English. He didn't know why. He didn't know any Westerners yet. He didn't know how to learn it, so he would find Time magazine, so he'd memorise, because how you learn things in Tibetan tradition, you memorise everything. So he started memorising stories. Report an error in the passage at 39:01 Highlight the passage at 39:01

39:21 He'd memorise the dictionary, for example. He thought that's the way to learn, you know. And Lama Yeshe began to learn English too, just by picking it up from hearing these Westerners talk. And I remember a friend of mine, this scholar called Gene Smith, who runs a thing called, at the Rubin Museum in New York, called, I can't remember, he's been gathering Tibetan texts for 50 years now. Report an error in the passage at 39:21 Highlight the passage at 39:21

39:41 And he's now supported by the Rubin Museum. And he's got this amazing database of these thousands upon thousands of Tibetan texts. Actually, he was funded by the Library of Congress. It's kind of interesting. Some karma the American government has. It was in the 60s. And he met them in Darjeeling in the mid-60s. And he said it was just astonishing. Report an error in the passage at 39:41 Highlight the passage at 39:41

39:59 Lama Yeshe's English was absolutely insane. Completely anarchy, you know. But somehow he said he had this ability, and Lama Yeshe is famous for that over the years before he passed away, for his ability to communicate to Westerners. If you listen to traditional Tibetan teachings from a traditional Tibetan Lama, sometimes we don't even understand what they're saying, even if it's translated perfectly. Report an error in the passage at 39:59 Highlight the passage at 39:59

40:22 Because the constructs, the concepts, the packaging, the way of presenting is profoundly different. And you all know what I mean if you've heard the teachings of Geshe-la, you know. Very, very different from how we talk. But he said with Lama Yishi from day one, he had somehow this ability to speak in a psychological way, in a way that Westerners really understood. Report an error in the passage at 40:22 Highlight the passage at 40:22

40:42 And I know from editing Lama over the years and of course being his student and hearing him teach, it's true, he had this unique way of communicating. Even though his English was insane, it was nuts, you really got the meaning. He really conveyed the meaning in a very direct way. So there they were, both of them in their own ways learning this unusual English. Report an error in the passage at 40:42 Highlight the passage at 40:42

41:03 And their Western students gathering around them and they had their first course and apparently it was an intensive one month course and 12 people came. And then six months later they did another one and 100 people came and by the second one, the third one, 200 people were turning up, you know, in this tent they would call it, stick up over a cow shed, stick up a kind of tarpaulin, put some cushions in, you know, and people would come for this course. Report an error in the passage at 41:03 Highlight the passage at 41:03

41:25 And so of course now this course continues, the November course is on right at this moment in Kathmandu. Lama Zopa doesn't teach the whole course anymore, but he always goes every year. So he's there. He's just about there right now, I think. So again, a couple of hundred, 250 people come for this course. Now you have nice rooms with bathrooms. Report an error in the passage at 41:25 Highlight the passage at 41:25

41:40 It's far more civilised. It's more civilised than many Buddhist centres, actually, in the West. So we go to Kolpan. This is what we do. We arrive in Kathmandu. We stay at the Hyatt in this lovely place, have fun. People all enjoy themselves, relax. Then we go up to Kolpan Monastery. And again, this place is, like I said, where I told you we interviewed Rene. Report an error in the passage at 41:40 Highlight the passage at 41:40

41:59 People love Kolpan. Just feel moved by this place. It's like a little town. It's on a hill. 350 monks live there. And from morning, early morning until late at night, you hear the sound of monasteries, the sound of the monks singing, the sound of the monks practicing, the sound in the evening, all the monks debating in the front of the gompa in the big courtyard, you know, hundreds of them all shouting and yelling, doing their debates. Report an error in the passage at 41:59 Highlight the passage at 41:59

42:20 People just love this place, love it. And somehow it survived really nicely in this kind of a dual facility, a facility for Westerners. For visitors now from all over the world, Singapore, everywhere, you know. But it functions beautifully also as a monastery. The two worlds live very nicely together. Report an error in the passage at 42:20 Highlight the passage at 42:20

42:38 And of course the courses throughout the year, and then of course this major November course, and as a result all the benefactors that have come from this, this is what sustains this monastery. It's the most successful monastery from that point, materially speaking. All the monks get really taken care of, have medical care, get all their food, really get taken care of. And it's, you know, all the funding is coming from all the students around the world. Report an error in the passage at 42:38 Highlight the passage at 42:38

43:00 And they grow and grow and grow. Now there's a full tantric monastery there of 100 monks doing all the traditional tantric monastic teachings and all the rituals and all the sand mandalas. It's an amazing facility, you know. And then just down the road now, since about 79, Lama Yesh, you could see... Report an error in the passage at 43:00 Highlight the passage at 43:00

43:17 He was influenced by the kind of role of women in the West, and many of his students from the beginning have always been female. He's always treated men and women quite equally. He's been renowned for this, you know, quite unusual among the Tibetans who are fairly traditional people, you know. He'd even have nuns be his attendants. He'd go to his own monastery, and it was quite shocking for these monks, very traditional, to see Lama Yeshe with this cute young nun, you know. Report an error in the passage at 43:17 Highlight the passage at 43:17

43:39 Kind of seen as quite shocking. He was quite unusual for his time. And I know in 82, when he invited, when His Holiness came to... Report an error in the passage at 43:39 Highlight the passage at 43:39

43:48 Lama Yeshi invited His Holiness to various centres in Europe and he asked ten of us to be security guards, five men and five women. It was really unusual. The Tibetans are quite shocked because they're very traditional people, not criticising them. But, you know, now, of course, the Tibetans have female guards, you know, female security guards around His Holiness. Lama Yeshi was the first. I was one of the guards, you know. It was very interesting. Report an error in the passage at 43:48 Highlight the passage at 43:48

44:09 So Lama Yeshi, yeah, there he was. We had this... So the people go up to this monastery and just kind of love this place. And so we do a course for four days. Because many of the people haven't heard much of Buddhist teaching, so it's really helpful to get a background, you know, get a kind of context. So we have a four-day course, meditation and teachings, and then people just love the environment because you get up early in the morning, and even though it's like a busy valley now, it's up high, many, many more monasteries all around the mountains. Report an error in the passage at 44:09 Highlight the passage at 44:09

44:35 Still, it's a 360-degree view of all the mountains all the way around, you know, and the valley. And again, it's such a special feeling, the place. Anyone who's been there, I think, you agree. People love the place. So we stay there four days and do this course. Then the fifth day, we start officially our pilgrimage. So we go down, we get up in the morning, we do our meditation, have our breakfast, then we go down on the bus and we go to the first stupa, we go to the bodhis stupa. Report an error in the passage at 44:35 Highlight the passage at 44:35

44:58 We go with our offerings, we circumambulate, we do special practices, we go on to the stupa, we do pujas, we do prostrations, different prayers, there's our little prayer book, hour and a quarter, whatever. And then we go and have lunch, one of the restaurants. Overlooking the stupa, people hang around, do some shopping. And then the afternoon we go to Swayambu, this other one, it's about a 40 minute drive from there. The one that has this crystal from Manjushri. Report an error in the passage at 44:58 Highlight the passage at 44:58

45:26 It's often called the Monkey Temple because there's hundreds of monkeys. So you all have to protect what you've got because monkeys are really good thieves. So whatever you have in your hand, they will take it. Report an error in the passage at 45:26 Highlight the passage at 45:26

45:37 So you walk up these steps, very, very, very steep. You get to the top and we do another puja there. And then we go back and we do meditation, we go to bed. And the next morning we go to this other place, a very blessed place, that's got kind of a big history, Buddhist history. It's called Paping, about an hour and a half out of Kathmandu, up in a mountain again. Report an error in the passage at 45:37 Highlight the passage at 45:37

45:55 Because a lot of these mountains, because the Buddha was born in Nepal actually, it's what is known now as Nepal. It was part of this Indian kingdom of the Shakyas, you know, the Shakya clan. But this place too is famous for... Padmasambhava in the 7th, 8th century, meditating. There's a tiny cave there. And so right now, many, many Tibetans living up there, meditators. We go up there every year, we see the same nuns, same monks, meditating away, you know. Report an error in the passage at 45:55 Highlight the passage at 45:55

46:19 So there's three various particular holy places up there. One is this cave of Padmasambhava, ancient, dark, completely blackened cave, you know, where you spent years meditating. There's another one, another place, it's famous for the practice of Vajrayogini. This female Buddha, you know, these famous brothers called the Pamtinka brothers who meditated in this ancient little house. And this Nepalese family, I think for a thousand years, carry on family after family, can look after this place in this ancient, ancient little statue of Vajrayogini. Report an error in the passage at 46:19 Highlight the passage at 46:19

46:53 So we always do puta there. And this third place, the third place there is this special place. It's kind of very common in Tibet. Report an error in the passage at 46:53 Highlight the passage at 46:53

47:00 Self-Emanation, they call it. There's this image on the rock in the wall, which is now covered by walls, like a little house, like a cave, of an image of a self-Emanation, as they call it, of the image of Tara. Every year you get there, you see it a little bit more pronounced, sort of spontaneously growing out of the rock, which is said to be the blessing of the presence of the Buddha there. Report an error in the passage at 47:00 Highlight the passage at 47:00

47:23 There's many of these in Tibet. You see them. Plus an image of Ganesh, the Hindu. An image of an elephant, but in the Buddhist context he's seen as a Buddha of wealth. So we do special prayers and things there and we have a picnic there. And then the following day we hop on a plane and we go to Lumbini, which is where the Buddha was born. And there Lumbini is right on the border in northern Tibet, northern India. And we stay two nights, we stay one night there and then our Indian bus meets us. Report an error in the passage at 47:23 Highlight the passage at 47:23

47:53 So by this point it's about ten days into the pilgrimage. Altogether about, nearly, about a month. We're into 10 days already. So Indian bus meets us. But in Lumbini is where the Buddha was born. So we go to this place where there's a pool and a place where the Buddha was and then the tree where his mother said just had the given birth to the Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 47:53 Highlight the passage at 47:53

48:11 The Buddha popped out fully grown and said, like in, you know, like in that movie, DiCaprio, when he says, I'm the king of the world or something. The Buddha announced that he was the king of the world. Something like that. I am the boss. Something like that. I'm the boss, you know. I'm the king of the world. I mean, it's hilarious. Coming out of his mummy's side, he said, standing up fully grown. Report an error in the passage at 48:11 Highlight the passage at 48:11

48:29 These are the stories, okay? So we do this thing, we go to this place and then the following day we climb out onto our bus and off we go and we drive to Shravasti which is kind of north over the border which is itself a performance. You go through the Indian border, you go through the Nepalese border first and give you passports and you go into this no man's land in between, you have some chai and you go to the money changer then you go through the Indian part and then we drive and we drive about 10 hours. Report an error in the passage at 48:29 Highlight the passage at 48:29

48:56 So it sounds like a lot of... Driving, 10 hours in a bus, God. But actually it's the best way to travel because if you travel any other way, you've got to stop, you've got to get off, you've got your luggage, you've got to climb on, you've got to wait at the train station, the train's late. It's a real hassle. But this way you've got your own bus. You have your own seat, you can sleep, you relax, your luggage is safe in the back and I swear to you they must have a special school for these tourist bus drivers. Report an error in the passage at 48:56 Highlight the passage at 48:56

49:18 They are amazing. group of people every year. They're all married to the same Indian wife. I absolutely adore, I cannot tell you how I love these particular drivers. They're just absolutely gorgeous. They're kind of these really devoted people. Every one, we have a different driver every year. Maybe this year's was the same as about three years ago. Report an error in the passage at 49:18 Highlight the passage at 49:18

49:43 They sleep in their bus. You never see them when you get to the hotel. They get taken care of. But they're always dressed perfectly. Their hair's always beautiful for some reason. They always just wear a shirt. It's immaculately pressed. I always notice the creases. And they drive. They can drive for 16 hours. They don't worry. They don't worry about unions and this and that and going on strike and all the rest. I mean, one of the journeys, the final journey we do, the last day, I'll come to it, it's sometimes 16 hours. Report an error in the passage at 49:43 Highlight the passage at 49:43

50:11 They don't mind. They're completely happy. They never seem to nod off to sleep. They never seem to eat anything. They just have their bottle of drink. They've got this kind of ethos. I just love these guys. They're so devoted. They love driving for us because we're holy and they're all very religious, these guys. Report an error in the passage at 50:11 Highlight the passage at 50:11

50:26 They absolutely adore driving for us because we're pilgrimage. They just love it. They feel really, really honoured. They're just a total joy, I can't tell you. And they have this little helper who sleeps in the bus as well, who hops out and hops on and takes the traffic and does this and moves around and fixes the pothole and whatever, you know. Report an error in the passage at 50:26 Highlight the passage at 50:26

50:44 So the bus, they meet us at the airport and the next day we drive to Shravasti, which as I said is a place you wouldn't go to if you weren't in a group. There's no normal traffic. I mean you could take it but it's not easy, it's not a tourist trek at all. And so the main thing you're doing is you're driving through this Indian countryside. Report an error in the passage at 50:44 Highlight the passage at 50:44

51:03 And what astonishes me about India, it looks not a very big country if you look on the map and it's a billion people live there. But all you see is green. All you see is acres and acres and acres of empty land, these little villages, you know. So it really always amazes me when we talk about how this earth is overcrowded, and I'm not saying they're all wrong, but I can't believe how there seems to be always so much space. Report an error in the passage at 51:03 Highlight the passage at 51:03

51:24 I'm sure we could fit a lot more people if we really had to. Anyway, whatever. But what's amazing, and this is the thing, and it's interesting about India, when you read about India now, you know, and I've been to Mumbai. I was in Mumbai earlier this year. And some of the richest people in India are the richest. They say India, the middle class of India is bigger than the population of Germany, like 19 million people. And the middle class of India are mega, mega rich. Report an error in the passage at 51:24 Highlight the passage at 51:24

51:46 I mean, there's a Mumbai businessman I read about recently who's got his own private house and it's 35 storeys. It's a bit grotesque, isn't it? Did you read about him too? 35 storey house. It's the most expensive house in the world. Yeah, in the world, that's right. In Mumbai. And Mumbai is also the poorest city in the world. But you go, you know, to Kolobar, where all the business happened just now, and it's beautiful, you know, isn't it? Have you been to Mumbai? No. Report an error in the passage at 51:46 Highlight the passage at 51:46

52:10 It's gorgeous, Bombay, you know, it's lovely, and it really is classically kind of British Indian, you know, because so many of these Indians are more British than the British. Report an error in the passage at 52:10 Highlight the passage at 52:10

52:20 And it's kind of fascinating, and I love Mumbai. I didn't go to many of the poor parts, but it's some of the slummiest. I mean, that great movie that's on now, what is it called? Slumdog Millionaire. Apparently it's an amazing film. Beautiful film. You see that side of Mumbai. But when you see all this stuff that happened, you see the rich side of Mumbai. Collar by this place, that's where it all happened. Report an error in the passage at 52:20 Highlight the passage at 52:20

52:42 Downtown Mumbai, where all those hotels are, all the tourists. Why am I telling you that? I've got sidetracked. Mumbai, okay, what you see in India all the time, mainly, is the poor villages. And I think you're going to see, I mean, I know I've been going to India now for 30 years, and I think in these villages you pay, still you pay 5 rupees for a cup of tea. Report an error in the passage at 52:42 Highlight the passage at 52:42

53:01 I mean, 30 years ago when I first went in 78, 77, you paid 5 rupees for a cup of tea. 5 rupees is about 10 cents. You still pay the same, you know. You pay your 10 cents for one of the most delicious meals we'd always have on the road. Everybody adored it. What do you call a little thing that's in a wrap? Samosa. Everybody, people, the thing we loved most was a samosa and a cup of chai. Report an error in the passage at 53:01 Highlight the passage at 53:01

53:24 It was the most delicious meal. In the beginning, many people were really nervous about stopping and having... Food in ordinary Indian restaurants. I mean, it's covered in the flies. The food's got all the wasps all over it. You know, not our usual sense of hygiene. Some people don't do it, don't eat there, but most people did and most people didn't get sick, you know. Report an error in the passage at 53:24 Highlight the passage at 53:24

53:40 But you'd have had, like, you know, you have these samosas and they cook them in boiling hot fats. Any germs in there are all being killed anyway, quite sure. But they dump it in just boiling fat, you know. But people loved doing that, stopping off, and of course it would become the... 4,000 villagers all hang around all looking at us, taking photos taken with us. Totally unusual sight, you know, all these pale-faced people. Report an error in the passage at 53:40 Highlight the passage at 53:40

54:04 Unless, of course, you're African-American or Indian. So we'd stop off, we'd stop whenever you feel like it. We'd go pee behind the trees because often you couldn't find a proper toilet and the bushes were certainly cleaner than the toilets, that's for sure. Report an error in the passage at 54:04 Highlight the passage at 54:04

54:17 People really enjoyed this. I can't tell you. But what you see is these villages are exactly the same. I think they're a thousand years, there's not a fraction of a difference. You're going to find these villages. You've been on a pilgrimage, haven't you, Lama? No, we went to India. Oh, you didn't come with me? No. Oh, okay. So you'd see these little villages, ancient little thatched cottages, with a little kind of square, with the oxen in the middle, having a sleep, and they probably are the same as a thousand years ago. Report an error in the passage at 54:17 Highlight the passage at 54:17

54:42 Nothing has changed. And that's why when you hear about Indian, you know, like it's one of the growing economies of the world, it's true, but it's only the middle class part of India, the 85 million people. The 90 people. The rest of India is identical, it hasn't changed a bit. It's like the, I'm sure they have earned as much as they earned a thousand years ago, a few rupees a month, you know, they live in the most basic way. Report an error in the passage at 54:42 Highlight the passage at 54:42

55:04 So it's really hard to see how that's going to, kind of, the riches of India are going to translate. But then I suppose it's the same in this country. You're going to see people who are incredibly poor and have been for centuries, you know, and haven't been much affected by all the growth in the this and the that and the IT and all the things. Report an error in the passage at 55:04 Highlight the passage at 55:04

55:19 It's always going to be the same, but in India especially so, you know. So then we get to Shravasti, which is in the middle of nowhere, this little town, used to be a thriving city. And Shravasti is, as I said, is this place where Jetavana, what's it called, gardens or grove or something. And the Buddha and his disciples would all go there for the rainy season. Report an error in the passage at 55:19 Highlight the passage at 55:19

55:42 You know, for 25 years. And this place is several acres and just there's ruins of these houses. But they're wonderfully kept. They're like these oases because most of the regular people aren't allowed in there, you know. Otherwise you'd be bombarded by just beggars all the time. It would be quite difficult. So they don't let them in and we just, you go in. And it's just so special. We meditate, we pray at the little house at the Buddha's. Report an error in the passage at 55:42 Highlight the passage at 55:42

56:01 We do puja there. So by the time we get there, it's like four in the afternoon. We relax, have dinner and, you know, and stay the night and then go the next day. And when people go twice, often they go on their own, just sit and relax and do their own meditation. We do the pujas and things first in the morning. People, there's really special places, I can't tell you, special, special feeling. Report an error in the passage at 56:01 Highlight the passage at 56:01

56:19 And they're kept so beautifully, really so special. So we stay another, the second day, then we stay a night again. And people often, we go to the next morning early and do morning prayers there before we drive off. Because the next drive is about, again, 10 hours. This time to Kushinagar, which is where the Buddha passed away. And there there are two... Report an error in the passage at 56:19 Highlight the passage at 56:19

56:38 Two places to go. We stayed there two days again. What we did find in the very first Pilgrim region, what often you do see, you drive ten hours, you get there at four, you rush off to the holy place, you stay the night and you leave at five in the morning. It's ridiculous. So we made a point of staying two nights in every place. You have a full day in these places and you can really relax and get a feeling for it. It's very important to do that. Report an error in the passage at 56:38 Highlight the passage at 56:38

56:59 So the second that you get up the third night and then you leave early in the morning, we'd go there and do we do puja before we go on the road. Well, if we didn't do that on the bus, you know, you have the microphone. We had a big library of books. We always do that. So we read stories. We read about Buddha's life. We have teachings. People read. I would read. Report an error in the passage at 56:59 Highlight the passage at 56:59

57:16 People ask questions. People really enjoy the bus. So we go to Kushinagar, there are two places there. There's one place where there's a big statue, they built a statue, you know that famous statue of the Buddha lying down, you know like this when he passed away, which they say is the best way to go to sleep too. Report an error in the passage at 57:16 Highlight the passage at 57:16

57:31 You lie with your legs out, this hand down there and this one under here. I think you're supposed to put this finger up your nostril or something. I don't know why, I forget the reason. I forget that part, I just do that. Report an error in the passage at 57:31 Highlight the passage at 57:31

57:42 Like this, you know. A lion pose they say. So we go to that place and do puja and then in the afternoon there's another place that I love very much. It's very bare. And there's a lot of these places, ancient stupas that were built a thousand years ago. More than this. Fifteen hundred, two thousand years ago. These stupas at the time, especially at the King Ashoka, who really, I don't know what time, when did Ashoka live? Report an error in the passage at 57:42 Highlight the passage at 57:42

58:04 I don't remember. When was it? When? Third century. Third century, thank you. He energised bodhicitta and went around building many, many stupas and many pillars and places. So these places... Ashoka built. But this stupa, it's very special. It's just bare bricks, you know. It's this round mound. It hasn't been fancied up at all. Report an error in the passage at 58:04 Highlight the passage at 58:04

58:24 Again, these gardens, beautifully kept, and a few ruins of monasteries. Because over the centuries, monasteries have developed in all of these places. There used to be thriving groups of monks living and meditating and practicing in these places. These days, no one at all. So this place, just this mound, but it's a very special feeling. Report an error in the passage at 58:24 Highlight the passage at 58:24

58:41 So we do special prayers there. And then in the evenings, we'd always do particular prayers about impermanence. We'd often do the practice called Churd, which is where you're imagining, you know, you're cutting up your body and offering it to all the spirits. People love doing that practice. This place, very special. So two nights in Kushinagar. Then we leave early the next morning. And by this point, it's about halfway through the pilgrimage. So by now, people are wanting a break, you know. Report an error in the passage at 58:41 Highlight the passage at 58:41

59:02 So we go to Varanasi, which is one of the oldest, continuously... The most inhabited city in the world, apparently, several couple of thousand years. Varanasi, vast place. Banaras, they would call it, you know. And 12 miles out of there is this place called Saranath, which is where Dia Park is, which is where the Buddha gave his first teaching, the Four Noble Truths. So we go in, we stay in one of the nice hotels in Varanasi. Report an error in the passage at 59:02 Highlight the passage at 59:02

59:25 We stay there at least three nights. And we stay in Varanasi. So the first day relax and then we all go to the river. This is the Ganges in the source, the main part of where the Ganges is. And this is the holiest place for Hindus, you know, where they have the ghats, where they do all the, you know, burning the dead bodies. Report an error in the passage at 59:25 Highlight the passage at 59:25

59:40 And every night, sunset, and we always go on the sunset, you know. There's this, all the local Hindu priests do these special pujas to Lakshmi, I think. People love that, love that, you know, going to the river. And sometimes in the morning, they'd go early morning and take a boat and go along the river. Report an error in the passage at 59:40 Highlight the passage at 59:40

59:57 The Ghats, very special, very ancient, very special place. So we have a day off and do those kind of things. And then the next day we go to Saranath and go to Deer Park where the Buddha taught the Four Noble Truths. And again, different way, but again very special. These ruins of monasteries, one big ancient stupa, very special. And there we always talk about the Heart Sutral. Report an error in the passage at 59:57 Highlight the passage at 59:57

1:00:16 I remember, no, not Heart Sutral, about emptiness and the Four Noble Truths. We did that this year. Very special. Remember the place this year, very special. Very special feeling. Heart, it really sounds strange, but it's true, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:16 Highlight the passage at 1:00:16

1:00:28 So again, we spend, we go there twice at least, there's museums and various places there, but these holy places, even though you just sit there in these ruins, they're the ones that really touch your heart very deeply. Because you're doing practices there, people do their own meditations there, we have teachings there, it really goes deep inside your head. You just don't go there, take a picture and then walk away again. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:28 Highlight the passage at 1:00:28

1:00:46 You feel like you've got something to do there, you know. Like I said, people have these special experiences. So then another night in Varanasi, and then we drive again about 10, 12 hours to Bodh Gaya. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:46 Highlight the passage at 1:00:46

1:00:59 Which is where the Buddha got enlightened. It's in the state called Bihar. And it's like the poorest state in India. And as Holiness says, probably the dirtiest. So this place has been, there's a wonderful history of Bodhgaya, where all the stupa was completely buried for centuries. This guy came along in the 18th century and just found it. Because when you get to the stupa in Bodhgaya, you've got to walk down, several steps, right down. It's been below. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:59 Highlight the passage at 1:00:59

1:01:29 It's been had many things built on top of it, you know. So it's just this, again, this astonishing place packed with people. Bodhgai is the busiest city now. When I had been there for seven years, I couldn't even recognise it. It was so busy. It was like a... A busy city now. Unbelievable. And every imaginable kind of Buddhist from all over the world has got a temple there. The Chinese and the Zens and the Thais and the this and the that. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:29 Highlight the passage at 1:01:29

1:01:51 It's amazing. And it's every Buddhist in the world. This is like their holy grail, you know, to come to Bodh Gaya. And again, even though it's packed with people and it's unbelievably poor, the government is so corrupt. It's like still unbelievable. The number of burglar, what do you call bandits? Bandits, what do they call them? What's the term they use in India? Report an error in the passage at 1:01:51 Highlight the passage at 1:01:51

1:02:11 Dacoits, exactly. I mean, the number of times people I know who've lived there, especially if you're in the summer and it's hot like you cannot believe. In the summer, you breathe and it burns your lungs. It's like 110 degrees most of the time. You can't survive in that kind of heat. And there are these people living there for centuries. Even most of the plains of North India, Delhi in the summer, you've never... Report an error in the passage at 1:02:11 Highlight the passage at 1:02:11

1:02:34 I was sick. I nearly died there one year. I had hepatitis and malaria together. And I remember this Lama said I was close to death. I had never known such heat in all my life. It was relentless. And there's never a single day when you have even a whiff of a cloud. And there's a half a million people living on the streets in this time. And Bombay is the same. It's the heat. You've never known the like of the heat, you know. It's just beyond belief. Varanasi, the same. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:34 Highlight the passage at 1:02:34

1:02:57 Unbelievable. Bodh Gaya, inconceivable heat. So in February, already it's becoming unbearable heat. It's unbelievable. So we're there in October. Perfect timing. November. So Bodh Gaya, so again people have a day off, love going shopping, lots and lots of cafes and restaurants, but we spend time at this stupa and it's just packed with people. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:57 Highlight the passage at 1:02:57

1:03:17 Tibetans spend the summer there, the winter there doing their prostrations. People live there just about. It's a vast, it takes again about 10 minutes to walk around, 7 minutes to walk around. Beautiful place, special, special place. People love Bodh Gaya. So we spend about three nights there and go to the stupa every day and do special things and people who want to take refuge, we finish with that and we do other things there. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:17 Highlight the passage at 1:03:17

1:03:35 And then we go off on a day trip. Depending, the road is good there now. You go an hour and a half and you get to Rajgir, which used to be a thriving big city at the time of the Buddha. And this is where Vulture Peak is. It's one of my favourite places. It's just incredible. This ancient little place right at the top of a hill is about as big as a pocket handkerchief, you know. And when you read the Heart Sūtra, it says all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, like thousands of them, all there. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:35 Highlight the passage at 1:03:35

1:03:58 And I said to the Geshe, here one time, where do they all sit? He said, oh, they sit in the sky, he said. Because it talks about all these thousands of Buddhas and bodhisattvas, all there present for Buddha's teachers on the Heart Sūtra. But you could fit 120 people there. It's miniature. You'd fall off. On the top of this little hill with a little fence around it, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:58 Highlight the passage at 1:03:58

1:04:14 Incredible views. Very, very high walk. Such a special place. Vulture Peak, where he taught the Heart Sūtra. Taught other things too. You read the sutras, a lot of teachings he gave there. Such, again, a special holy feeling, this place. So we'd go there, we'd do the Heart Sūtra. Different teachings on emptiness again. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:14 Highlight the passage at 1:04:14

1:04:31 And then the other place that's near there is Nalanda Monastery. The Buddha actually went there, but very likely he must have. But it's this place that developed in about the 7th century, I think, a big Mahāyāna monastery that was famous in its day. There were more than 10,000 plus people, monks, studying. And I bet quite a few girls looking like monks. I bet the girls had to dress up like monks to get there. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:31 Highlight the passage at 1:04:31

1:04:53 I bet there were a lot of them. But then eventually, that's when they started to really, it was earlier than the 7th century, sorry. It began to really flourish until about the 12th century and apparently this is when there was a big Muslim invasion and the place was destroyed, you know. I remember the guy there said it took six months for the library to burn, probably destroyed. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:53 Highlight the passage at 1:04:53

1:05:12 But I remember at its peak there were these 10,000 plus people and the way you'd get into this monastery was like this famous monastic university and the big monastic universities in Tibet are based upon this kind of style of study, you know, the Mahāyāna universities. And so in order to even get into the monasteries you had to debate with the gatekeeper. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:12 Highlight the passage at 1:05:12

1:05:30 They're the great scholars. You have to debate your way into the monastery. If you didn't win the debate, you wouldn't get in. You have to debate your way in on some scholarly topic. So in this place, they've only uncovered a tiny percentage of it. It still is vast. There's acres and acres. There's square kilometres of it. A small amount only has been uncovered. But again, it's astonishing. This incredible campus. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:30 Highlight the passage at 1:05:30

1:05:55 Monastery after cell after cell. Packed solid with places. more you know sit modern Report an error in the passage at 1:05:55 Highlight the passage at 1:05:55

1:05:59 And stupas and little caves and just a tiny percentage of it all has been uncovered. Such a special place. I keep saying that about everything. They are such a special place. I like such a special place. My experience. What can I tell you? I just like the places. I'm always so happy to go every year. I have a photo at the top of Rasgur at one point where it was really crowded and there were all these timeouts on one side and Korean nuns on the other side. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:59 Highlight the passage at 1:05:59

1:06:25 And you off kind of by the wall finishing the reading of the sūtra and then various ones of us and other nuns up the rocks. Yeah, that'd be, I remember that. And it gets quite crowded there, doesn't it? Yeah, it was pretty happy when we were, when we started. Yes, I remember, that's right, I remember exactly, that's right, exactly. And everybody busily does all their things together, they don't mind at all, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:25 Highlight the passage at 1:06:25

1:06:44 The Koreans and the Thais and the Tibetans all at once. So... Nolanda, yeah, we go there and then we have, you know, stop and have tea and everything and we go back, then we go back to Bodgaya, spend one more night and then we do the final drive and I have to say every single year I have to argue with Amber and Effie about this. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:44 Highlight the passage at 1:06:44

1:07:03 Every year they get worried and they say nobody can put up with an 18-hour drive because it is an 18-hour drive, maybe a 15-hour drive and every year I say people don't mind and we get up at three in the morning and somehow they're a bit anxious because you've got to get a flight that night, you know, but every year. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:03 Highlight the passage at 1:07:03

1:07:19 We make it every time. But this year, because I left early, I heard that Amber decided they'd leave at 8pm and they got there about five hours early. So they're all sitting around this boring airport for five hours because they were so worried they wouldn't make it. So every year I say it's really fine, we'll make it on time. So this year they end up going the other extreme. But it's about an 18, 15 to 18 hour drive. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:19 Highlight the passage at 1:07:19

1:07:41 But still, it works. And then we climb onto an aeroplane, go back to Kathmandu, stay at the Hyatt, relax in luxury again. Have a nice meal, have the next day off and then go out and go back home to your country. That's the pilgrimage. That's Chasing Buddha Pilgrimage. That was a long commercial for the Chasing Buddha Pilgrimage. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:41 Highlight the passage at 1:07:41

1:07:58 I don't know what else to say about it. I haven't got any long historical things. I'm very sorry. I can tell you a few little things like he died here, he lived there, he got born here, he got enlightened there. That's about all I can say. I'm sorry, I can't say more. So now you can ask me a question if you have any. We stay at our centre there. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:58 Highlight the passage at 1:07:58

1:08:17 Root Institute. It's just out. You know it? You've been there? And it's just this oasis. It's beautiful. Acres of grounds, lovely trees, lots of rooms, you know. We stay there. In the first couple of years we didn't, but in the end we ended up there and it's really fine. All the little rickshaws stay outside and pop you into town. People like staying at Root very much. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:17 Highlight the passage at 1:08:17

1:08:35 They like it there. And I like to support the centre too. So really, what else? Are we going to talk about the Tibetan? Yeah, we did one. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, all in a minute. Yeah, go on. Talk to me. What's your question, darling? I just wondered how close this was to Dharamsala. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:35 Highlight the passage at 1:08:35

1:08:55 Okay, yes, okay, how you get, it's not at all, on the map it looks quite close, but the way you get to Dharamsala, you've got to go to Delhi, from Varanasi you'd fly to Delhi, several flights a day, to go from Bodhgai you've got to get to Varanasi and then, or to go to Patna, and then you'd fly to Delhi, and then from Delhi you then go onto a train, sometimes it's a certain flight to a certain place, and then it's a 12 hour flight. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:55 Highlight the passage at 1:08:55

1:09:19 All night journey on the train and then a four hour drive and then you're in Dharamsala. So the way we do it on the pilgrimage, we do it just at the places of the Buddha. So if we did Dharamsala, it would be another kind of approach. It would be a different way. We'd go via Delhi. It would be a different thing. We could start in Delhi, but I really wanted to include Kathmandu because of the monastery. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:19 Highlight the passage at 1:09:19

1:09:42 Kathmandu is just so special. Nepal is lovely. So we've never gone by, we've never used Dharamsala. It's also very good that you do it a round trip because that really helps in terms of the cost. As opposed to what? As opposed to starting in Nepal and then leaving from Delhi. Oh, I see what you mean, yes. Yeah. Oh, gosh, yes. No, no, it's better that way. No, no, I see what your point is. Yes, exactly. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:42 Highlight the passage at 1:09:42

1:10:07 No, it's definitely better for the airline, for the flights. I mean, if you can use your air miles, it's got to be a round trip. No, no, absolutely. Much better. No, it's true. Yeah. And we really, what we've done, the very first one we had, I let someone else organise it. And I know it was sort of like we had one organiser for Nepal, and we had this extra person who gave talks, and we went and we met another one in India. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:07 Highlight the passage at 1:10:07

1:10:28 It was really quite kind of too many cooks spoiling the broth, I found. And every year I'd kind of keep it simple. So now, the last five years, we had this young, well, young, getting on for 40, I suppose, Nepalese man called Amber, whom Effie knows well, Effie of Himalayan high treks. And he... He's just a tour guide in Kathmandu. He'd never really done tour guides in India, but he went one year. He decided we could have one person. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:28 Highlight the passage at 1:10:28

1:10:53 And he's soft. He's the sweetest guy in the whole world. Everybody adores him. And he says, we just have one person. So I'm the big boss, of course. Unless someone else goes on my behalf. And then there's Amber. And that's it. It's so simple. We keep it really simple. And it's perfect. We don't have many kind of people giving all the talks about the history of the places. Amber knows quite a bit. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:53 Highlight the passage at 1:10:53

1:11:10 But we learn quite a lot. It keeps it very simple. It's very streamlined. The first year we only stayed one night in places. I just stayed at two. We used to go here first and then we'd go there. I made it ending in Bodh Gaya. Just feel kind of the way we've done it now. It really kind of works nicely. And it really is excellent for anybody who's never been to India before. It's the best way to go first to these places. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:10 Highlight the passage at 1:11:10

1:11:30 It really is best. Because you don't have to worry about anything. You just get taken care of. Meals are great. Food is great. People often don't get very sick. And I've seen many pilgrimages, I know the cost wise, Effie keeps the price down and poor old Effie often even loses money on it. Any profit she gives it to the prison project. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:30 Highlight the passage at 1:11:30

1:11:47 But I've seen pilgrimages of $5,000 for two weeks or tours for two weeks. Ours is like nearly a month and I think it's still only $3,500 plus your airfare. So it's quite cheap if you think it's $100 a day, you know, $150 a day for everything. Pretty not expensive. And it wasn't meant to be a... Invertisement for Chasing Buddha. But I don't know what else to talk about pilgrimages. I don't know what else to say. Any other questions? Report an error in the passage at 1:11:47 Highlight the passage at 1:11:47

1:12:20 How about it? Report an error in the passage at 1:12:20 Highlight the passage at 1:12:20

1:12:24 Usually it works that way, yeah, because people are coming from all the different places, you know. People coming from here. I mean, people are coming from six, seven, eight, nine, ten countries. It's very rare there's more than five or four people coming from the one airport. So usually people find their own fares. Then Effie does all the rest, everything else, you know, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:24 Highlight the passage at 1:12:24

1:12:17 flight to get to Report an error in the passage at 1:12:17 Highlight the passage at 1:12:17

1:12:45 I'm really sorry, I can't tell you anything more about pilgrimages. I can tell you there seems to be a benefit, what I observe from people there's a benefit, but I think about karma there's a very strong benefit, you leave karmic imprints, you connect with the Buddha, definitely strongly do this. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:45 Highlight the passage at 1:12:45

1:12:57 And maybe you can say therefore you leave strong imprints for the past or enlightenment in your mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:57 Highlight the passage at 1:12:57

1:13:05 There you go, it's only 8.30 but that's it, I'm done. We could talk about something else now if you like. I'm very happy. Whatever you want. What, darling? Oh, the Tibetan one. Okay, good. So many people would say, what about Tibet? So we thought last year, the year before last, why not Tibet? Maybe the year before that. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:05 Highlight the passage at 1:13:05

1:13:24 We've done three already. So the very first one I did was May. I led it. We'd start the same thing. We'd begin in Kathmandu. Amber would meet us. We'd go to the same place. We'd go to Kopan. And then instead of going to India, we'd fly to Lhasa. But it was often quite difficult because you couldn't get... Report an error in the passage at 1:13:24 Highlight the passage at 1:13:24

1:13:43 You had to... We monks... Me as a nun, I had also my friend, the nun, the Tibetan nun, Senla, who's an American, but she's Tibetan and wears robes. We couldn't go via Kathmandu, we couldn't get a visa, we had to go via Chengdu. So we'd have to fly to Hong Kong and then fly to Chengdu from Hong Kong and then meet everybody in Lhasa. So we did it the first year, and the second year, someone else led it for me, then this year, it all got cancelled because of the business, and they went to Bhutan instead. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:43 Highlight the passage at 1:13:43

1:14:10 Apparently it was very nice. Yeah, I didn't believe it was. They went to Bhutan, people loved it. But we'd go, we just went to Lhasa, really, and then all the holy places around there. But I find going to Tibet very depressing, actually. I mean, not something wrong with China, but it's China, basically. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:10 Highlight the passage at 1:14:10

1:14:26 Lhasa, you can't even recognise it anymore, you know. It's just, the whole country's completely overwhelmed. I mean, three times the number of Chinese people. It's completely China. The infrastructure, the whole of the infrastructure now, you know, it's got roads, trains to Beijing. Nothing wrong with Beijing, but it's not Tibet. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:26 Highlight the passage at 1:14:26

1:14:45 Of course it's Tibetan. And you get the feeling, I know last year when I was there, the year I was there, there's lots of monasteries, lots of monks. But I remember one of the monks, there's this deep sadness among the Tibetans inevitably. It looks like a monastery. They're dressed in their robes, but it's like show, you know. They're watching themselves, they're watching their backs, they're completely controlled by the government. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:45 Highlight the passage at 1:14:45

1:15:06 All this repression. Now Lord knows what's happening since this year's stuff, you know. But I remember this one monk in a monastery. I said to him, Do you think the Dharma is strong enough to win out, you know, something like that, to overcome everything? He said, he said, he said, it's like, he said, no. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:06 Highlight the passage at 1:15:06

1:15:29 He said, it's like looking through a window frame, but there's nothing there. Something like that, he said. A very strange thing, he said. So you feel like they, you know, all the monks... They're doing what monks do. Because they have a strong faith in karma, they do all the right things, they do all their practices, they build the monasteries. You know, this one monastery, we gave them an offering, and even right there, he took his offering, he took a road ride with us down to town to buy some bricks to build something, you know, in their monastery. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:29 Highlight the passage at 1:15:29

1:15:57 But you feel like they're just doing it mainly for the karmic imprints for the future, because they just don't feel physically it's going to have any benefit. It's just turning into China. It's empty. It's not really Tibetan. All these young monks, you know. Many nuns, of course, too, but so many young monks, like at Sera, these big places, looking like big, fat monasteries with big, fat statues. But it's just really, it's like pretend, it's like show, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:57 Highlight the passage at 1:15:57

1:16:22 So who knows what will happen in the future? No idea. You don't feel that specialness, but you don't feel, I would say, like the energy. Well, there has to be, I suppose, but I know for me, there is. Many people are blown out by Tibet. All I know is for me, I just found it depressing. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:22 Highlight the passage at 1:16:22

1:16:39 I couldn't care if I never went there again. No, I haven't been to Kailash. This is me personally. Many people love... No, no, that's right, not this one. That'll be another one altogether. This one we did was go to, you know, Vlasa and then go to the places over two or three hours out of Vlasa. We wouldn't do anything more than that for that period that we went. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:39 Highlight the passage at 1:16:39

1:16:58 And it's for me personally. I mean, many people love it and love and go back and back and back, you know. I just found it depressing, kind of, going to these places. It was me, just my mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:58 Highlight the passage at 1:16:58

1:17:09 I don't know, seriously. But wonderful to go. I mean, the Tibetans, His Holiness really wants people to go to Tibet. The more people go to Tibet and see, and the more Tibetans see Westerners, you know. And that is something for sure. And one thing we did do every time, we did our prayers and practices. Every single monastery, we'd sit down with our offerings, we'd do putras, we'd do prayers. I was a nun. I mean, many times we'd see people taking pictures of us when I left the border. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:09 Highlight the passage at 1:17:09

1:17:33 They had an hour with the security people asking questions, you know. Stupid. But we decided we'd do our practices and that makes the Tibetans very happy to see us doing that in all the holy places. Gyanse Stupa was very special. I remember that place. That was very special. These ancient, ancient places. One old place of Tsongkhapa where he meditated, Olka, that was very special. Yeah, they're very special. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:33 Highlight the passage at 1:17:33

1:17:56 I mean, if you go right into the way into the mountains, I mean, many of these Tibetans living exactly the same life they lived 50 years ago. There's no change for them, you know. I'm talking about Lhasa. It's just a Chinese city now, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:56 Highlight the passage at 1:17:56

1:18:08 Yeah. Oh, what a funny night. Giving an advertisement for a pilgrimage. No teachings. I suppose it's like teachings. Yes, it's teachings. I thought we were going to have a slideshow. Oh, you did? Oh, I'm sorry. You should have had a slideshow. You had me talking. You said, I wonder why Effie could have bought a slideshow. Would have been good. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:08 Highlight the passage at 1:18:08

1:18:29 Maybe Effie was going to show a slideshow, but then she got sent. Oh, sorry, you had boring old me raving on. How boring. I'm sorry. That wasn't boring. was just that I came Of course, it would have made sense to have a slideshow, wouldn't it, Anna? You absolutely right. I'm sorry about that. Well, there you go, that's it. So I'll see you all again. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:29 Highlight the passage at 1:18:29

1:18:51 I don't know when and where, but I'm going to go to Land of Medicine Wood on the 6th. When will you be here again? I don't know. When will I be here again? I have no idea. I never know, darling. Just tell me what to do when I do it. They sent an email out tonight and it probably would not be until February or later. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:51 Highlight the passage at 1:18:51

1:19:10 Because the one that you were doing on... It's been cancelled. December 20th has been cancelled. The one that she is supposedly doing on Saturday the 20th has been cancelled. Has been cancelled, yeah. That's right. And then I know January the 27th I'm going... Well then January the 27th I'm going away for six weeks so I won't be back until March. So it's not until March. So you will not... Report an error in the passage at 1:19:10 Highlight the passage at 1:19:10

1:19:28 Until March. Are you likely to see His Holiness? I don't know darling. If you go to Santa Barbara in April you'll see him then. Santa Barbara in April. Go. How did you feel the happiness conference? Oh, it was a raging success. Every possible way except financial. Disaster financially. We're struggling to keep alive, keep the money. Desperate. So not only rich people, let us know. No, really, every way possible. Everybody was delighted with the running of it. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:28 Highlight the passage at 1:19:28

1:19:55 The speakers were amazing. They had a great time. The venue was gorgeous. The food was great. The volunteers were incredible. Everybody was blown out by it. So it's great. And millions of people saw our name. So it was great success. Except financially. We didn't get enough people booked. 200 people booked. We needed 400 to break in. It cost us 300 plus thousand dollars. Hugely expensive to put these kinds of things on. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:55 Highlight the passage at 1:19:55

1:20:17 Hugely expensive. Do you think it was also the very expensive to attend? No, it was normal for that kind of thing. It was cheap, on the cheaper end, for that kind of thing. No, 700, 600 for the two days, 550 for the two days, plus workshops. But it was easy to get it for free if you were a volunteer. Easy, they had 150 volunteers. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:17 Highlight the passage at 1:20:17

1:20:36 Easy to go for free, if you really want to. But this is the common, it's the lower end of conferences. We were found in those, 30 % of people who come to the city come to conferences. And the vast majority cost $1,000, $2,000. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:36 Highlight the passage at 1:20:36

1:20:48 Ours is the lowest end. But to put it on, darling, it's $350,000. No, no, I'm just thinking about if it were, it did seem cost. I mean, because it's not a work conferences. No, that's right. Many can be. But if we'd done it for less, we would have to have got 1,000 people to record it. But I'm just saying, if it were less, you might have had more people. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:48 Highlight the passage at 1:20:48

1:21:05 If we would have to have had a thousand people to book to break even. And that's a very big risk. We wouldn't have done it otherwise. So to get it to that level in a venue that can hold a thousand people, we got 200. So to do a conference for 200 people and make money, it wouldn't have been that kind of conference. That was a big risk we took. You understand? But I want to do it at that level. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:05 Highlight the passage at 1:21:05

1:21:27 In Sydney, the conference there, 2,000 people last year. And it costs this year, it's $900 for two days. 2,000 people. And the dollar for the Australian is the same in your mind as an American dollar. So it depends. Are you doing it next year? Yes, next year. We're trying to get the right date. We're a bit late booking the date. In October? October. So that's why it'll be before. That's why the pilgrimage is in November rather than October. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:27 Highlight the passage at 1:21:27

1:21:51 Yeah, I think. Well, I've got to work it around the pilgrimage. I forgot about that. And it'll be in the same... Hopefully the same venue. It was a gorgeous venue. It was a lovely venue. Yeah, it was really a great place. Very nice place. They were very good to us as well. They gave us a good deal. Let's finish, it's been a commercial night, hasn't it? Report an error in the passage at 1:21:51 Highlight the passage at 1:21:51

1:22:17 I'm sorry, no slide, I'm sorry, no slide. Are you going to be here for the volunteer party on Friday night? Thank you so much. Were you already at Land of Medicine on Friday night or here to be for the volunteer party? No, I'll be here for the volunteer party. Okay, yes. Yes, darling. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:17 Highlight the passage at 1:22:17

1:22:42 Thank you. the beginning of the inspiration. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:42 Highlight the passage at 1:22:42

1:22:52 That's the island. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. for the art show. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:52 Highlight the passage at 1:22:52

1:24:27 All right, I'll play. Thank you. Thank you. is not door. And she said, hi, I'm not. Well, even I just said to people, don't put things, it's not possible. Because it wasn't, it wasn't. And that before, I said, so what's going on? So we'll do it and we'll pray and we'll be in our way. Well, that's good. Pray again. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:27 Highlight the passage at 1:24:27

1:25:19 Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:19 Highlight the passage at 1:25:19

1:25:40 Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:40 Highlight the passage at 1:25:40

1:26:07 Thank you. Please, um, don't call Anna. Mary can tell you. Where is Anna? Where is Anna? Did she leave? Anna left. Did you want her to give you a ride? I think she may have already left. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:07 Highlight the passage at 1:26:07

1:26:27 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So can you say March? I think March. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:27 Highlight the passage at 1:26:27

1:26:40 So I have no... Oh, thank you. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:40 Highlight the passage at 1:26:40

1:26:59 with Robina. Let me go find Mary. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:59 Highlight the passage at 1:26:59

1:27:07 Who can call this man please? Somebody help me. Can somebody call this man so that he can come and pick me up? on the left, where's the men, where's the number? Report an error in the passage at 1:27:07 Highlight the passage at 1:27:07

1:27:23 682 4849 682 4849 Report an error in the passage at 1:27:23 Highlight the passage at 1:27:23

1:27:44 read me in the song right now? I will, baby. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:44 Highlight the passage at 1:27:44

1:27:49 how do you want to bring me this number? 6, 8, 2, 4, 8, 4, 2, 3, I say that. 8, eight, two, right. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:49 Highlight the passage at 1:27:49

1:28:08 time to colonize. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:08 Highlight the passage at 1:28:08

1:28:23 What can Report an error in the passage at 1:28:23 Highlight the passage at 1:28:23

1:28:29 I reach, Anna? you very much. Are those your shoes? No. Where are your shoes? Report an error in the passage at 1:28:29 Highlight the passage at 1:28:29

1:28:48 I'm going to call you. How's that? I told her I would talk to her tomorrow. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:48 Highlight the passage at 1:28:48

1:29:07 me, is Ray? Report an error in the passage at 1:29:07 Highlight the passage at 1:29:07

1:29:14 time should I go about? It's 10 minutes. In ten minutes? Yes. All right, thank you. Okay, thank you, Greg. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:14 Highlight the passage at 1:29:14

1:29:25 So Ray say ten minutes. You say ten minutes. So that's ten minutes to nine. It's what? What time is it now? That's right. Ten minutes to nine. That's right. Yeah. Ten minutes. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:25 Highlight the passage at 1:29:25

1:29:45 annoying because that's a lot of I know. I have to be honest, I haven't asked anybody because I haven't. I'm still not entirely right. I have asked for a meeting about what's happening. I'll open you five after a minute. Thank you. Thank you. there's probably been a lot of time ago, she thought she could come through. Oh, that's right. She's offered. Yeah, that's right. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:45 Highlight the passage at 1:29:45

1:30:16 What is this event? Some event is taking place downtown, but I don't know. We had it. It's already done. So then they're having a sale of all the books. So if you'd like, you can look at the books, but otherwise you can just relax. Would you like to have a tea before you go? No, thanks a minute. I need just to relax. In 10 minutes. I am just lucky that I could... Report an error in the passage at 1:30:16 Highlight the passage at 1:30:16

1:30:46 And Robina said something to the effect that she would be here. When did she say? When did she say she would be here? March. March? Yes. And you don't know for how long? It doesn't matter even if it's for one day. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:46 Highlight the passage at 1:30:46

1:31:20 I must think of this pledge, which is simple. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:20 Highlight the passage at 1:31:20

1:31:28 but then she goes Saturday. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:28 Highlight the passage at 1:31:28

1:31:42 going to stay at this time. Thank Report an error in the passage at 1:31:42 Highlight the passage at 1:31:42

1:31:53 you. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:53 Highlight the passage at 1:31:53

1:32:01 It's really difficult to get this relationship to be happening. Report an error in the passage at 1:32:01 Highlight the passage at 1:32:01

1:32:15 Maybe, Report an error in the passage at 1:32:15 Highlight the passage at 1:32:15

1:32:19 yeah? I I think think she'd she'd do do it. it justice, Report an error in the passage at 1:32:19 Highlight the passage at 1:32:19

1:32:26 I left my cup there and now I cannot go in there. Thank you. That's what you said. We helped this one in here. It's mostly exciting. It's different because you wanted to start Report an error in the passage at 1:32:26 Highlight the passage at 1:32:26

1:32:40 on Friday night. Let's not do that right now. Let me see if I can take care of it. It was a diversion. We'll see you later. Report an error in the passage at 1:32:40 Highlight the passage at 1:32:40

1:33:01 I'll just have her call you. I think we have your number in the system. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:01 Highlight the passage at 1:33:01

1:33:12 We have to photocopy some material, and my being here, we accomplished that much. Some important papers, little properties, and stuff. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:12 Highlight the passage at 1:33:12

1:33:31 Can you tell me what your number is and then I will have to even Do you have her number? I have her number. I have to point out something about the bank. I have to find out something. Can I reach her if I write that number that I have? Well, as long as you have her number, then that's good. I'll let you just do it then. You just let me know if you need me to contact her. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:31 Highlight the passage at 1:33:31

1:34:02 You know, I don't know what to think. I don't know anything. I just can't. I'm like that. So she's going to be here in ten minutes. These are five minutes now. Report an error in the passage at 1:34:02 Highlight the passage at 1:34:02

1:34:20 I don't want to go there, no, no, because if I go there, I cannot go there with the shoes, not to take the shoes. No, no, you can have the shoes on. This is right here, you have time. Report an error in the passage at 1:34:20 Highlight the passage at 1:34:20