Practicing the Buddha's Wisdom at Work

0:00 Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:09 All right. Maybe we don't need a mic. Report an error in the passage at 0:09 Highlight the passage at 0:09

0:14 Okay. Report an error in the passage at 0:14 Highlight the passage at 0:14

0:20 So we just think before we start as usual. Going to sit here for a couple of hours talking about things, thinking, analyzing. Maybe we'll do a bit of meditation. Looking into our minds deeply, deeply because that's where the workshop is. And all my words will do is kind of will prod, you know, prod you to look into your minds. Report an error in the passage at 0:20 Highlight the passage at 0:20

0:44 Listening so that we can develop our qualities, so that we can be of benefit to others. Maybe Keith, we can close that window. Keith? Keith? Keith? Maybe we can close the window. I know it's muggy today, but we can put the air conditioning on. Can you put the air conditioning on upstairs? But make sure that it goes low enough. The one upstairs under the tunker, you know. Report an error in the passage at 0:44 Highlight the passage at 0:44

1:03 Make sure it goes down low enough, because it doesn't turn on until it gets low enough. Because it's a bit muggy in here. Good to have. And that does the lobby as well. Report an error in the passage at 1:03 Highlight the passage at 1:03

1:13 Okay, that'll do. So Buddhism, what does it say on the thing? I didn't even notice what it was today. I wondered what the topic was. Buddhism, how to practice Buddhism at work. Fascinating. I don't know. What do you think today is? What was today? Today's work, yeah. Really, it's the same as Buddhism with your husband and wife or something. It really is the same, isn't it, really? Report an error in the passage at 1:13 Highlight the passage at 1:13

1:37 So it's the same old stuff. I always feel embarrassed because I think we end up talking about the same thing and I kind of feel like I'm a cheat, a fraud, you know? But really it's the same thing every time, you know, knowing our minds, looking at our minds, understanding. I think work's something interesting, isn't it? Because it's so, for most of us, unless we're rich and have a leisurely life, most of us spend probably more time at work than at home, I don't know, during the week certainly, wouldn't you agree with that? Report an error in the passage at 1:37 Highlight the passage at 1:37

2:07 And I suppose some of our most dynamic relationships are at work, aren't they? Would that be true with people? Report an error in the passage at 2:07 Highlight the passage at 2:07

2:16 It's this minefield, isn't it? So this is the thing, this is the one about, yeah, it's like, really, you know, with all of this stuff. Using Buddhism, it's sort of one of the first steps really. Let's talk about this one. One of the first steps is really beginning to get some distinction, to have some kind of clarity in our minds that Report an error in the passage at 2:16 Highlight the passage at 2:16

2:42 enables us to distinguish between what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling and the thing in front of me. So right now, you know, I was just talking to a person on the phone who rang me from England, a person I knew 20 years ago. And he's in total despair, you know, absolute paralysis of despair, of hopelessness and depression and in a relationship where he's being completely bullied by his wife, totally like abused. Report an error in the passage at 2:42 Highlight the passage at 2:42

3:15 And it's so clear, so clear when you hear this, you know, that there's her doing what she's doing, but the main thing is he and how he's responding. But when we're caught up in any problem, What happens, this is the function of delusions, this is the function of the way Buddha talks, this is one of the main functions of the negative states of mind, anger, attachment, fear, jealousy, all of these things. Report an error in the passage at 3:15 Highlight the passage at 3:15

3:48 One of the main functions of all of these states of mind is that it's sort of like the object's like a magnet, the person is like a magnet and that state of mind runs. Report an error in the passage at 3:48 Highlight the passage at 3:48

4:06 Everything runs to it, is just propelled into the object. Totally, 100 % we become absorbed in the object. So when I say to this person on the phone, if I were to say to him, what is your problem? He would describe it solely in terms of what she is doing and what she said and what she is and what she isn't. Report an error in the passage at 4:06 Highlight the passage at 4:06

4:28 Do you understand my point? It's sort of clear. And when it's a very extreme example, so for this morning, this conversation, you know, it was like three this morning or something he rang, you can see it when it's a really extreme example. It's almost like, from my own side, helping me understand Dharma all the time, more and more, it's almost like you really delight in this kind of example because it's so extreme. It's a perfect, it's like a perfect, it'd be a perfect, like if you had to give an example, it's a perfect example of really how the unhappy states of mind function. Report an error in the passage at 4:28 Highlight the passage at 4:28

4:59 But we can see ourselves, we mightn't have as extreme as that, but we can see in our own daily life when you have this irritation about the boss. It's exactly the same. The person who doesn't like you at work. It's exactly the same. We ask each other, what's the problem? And you'll proceed to say what she said and what she did and she did this and she did that. And sort of the answer would be, that's fine, Robina. Report an error in the passage at 4:59 Highlight the passage at 4:59

5:19 I'm not asking about her. What about you? And we'll go... But I am talking about me. She did this. She did that. She did this. Because what I'm getting at is it is impossible for us when we're caught up in any one of the delusions to whatever degree, it's impossible for us to distinguish between the object and our view of the object. Report an error in the passage at 5:19 Highlight the passage at 5:19

5:40 And that's the way to kind of get some clarity, to speak about it this way. When you sort of study Buddhist psychology in more depth, it always sounds very clinical. everything always sounds clinical when you just say it theoretically doesn't it like when you're talking about music just theoretically it sounds kind of boring when you play it then you can feel the taste so you've got to start with the words you've got to start with the theories and so the key thing the buddhist psychological And we can see it among more and more understanding in psychology in the West too. More and more the last hundred years since Freud, we can see the development of introspection that isn't merely spiritual introspection the way we would think of in Christian terms. Report an error in the passage at 5:40 Highlight the passage at 5:40

6:16 You understand? We think of that type of introspection as something unique like prayer and communing with God and all this. Whereas the Buddhist introspection... It's like the psychological introspection. Are you getting my point here? And that's fairly new to us. It's only since Freud, really, isn't it? We've begun in our culture this idea of looking inside and psychotherapy and all this. Report an error in the passage at 6:16 Highlight the passage at 6:16

6:33 And we kind of think we invented it 100 years ago. Well, I'm sorry to tell you, you know, Buddha's been on the case for a couple of thousand years. But just because it's dressed up in religious terms, we don't hear it properly. So it's this, the first thing to get, this understanding, the way they talk in Buddhist psychology, they talk about subject and object. Subject is mind. Report an error in the passage at 6:33 Highlight the passage at 6:33

6:53 Object is the person out there. Object is the term given to whatever it is your mind is jumping onto, you know. You've got your mind, which means your thoughts, your viewpoint, your attitude, your feeling, your emotion. There's that. And then there's a thing out there. And the more we can understand that, even get our head around that, even theoretically, it's so helpful to apply it into our daily life. Report an error in the passage at 6:53 Highlight the passage at 6:53

7:15 But it's enormously difficult practice. Because again, one of the other functions of the delusions... Once it is absorbed into the object, it brings the panic and fear. Panic and fear is the nature of ego, the nature of suffering. So when I'm hearing that friend talk this morning on the phone, what you can hear is just this primordial panic, complete hysterical panic. Report an error in the passage at 7:15 Highlight the passage at 7:15

7:41 You understand? That's the nature of all these unhappy states of mind, the emotional nature is panic and fear. So then when you're feeling panic and fear, And you're seeing a person in a certain way, it is impossible to even look at yourself and factor yourself in. In other words, this person talking this morning, because it's such an extreme example, cannot even begin to comprehend the concept that his suffering is coming from his view of his wife. Report an error in the passage at 7:41 Highlight the passage at 7:41

8:10 Do you understand? His suffering is coming from this. It's impossible to see this. So forget the extreme example. Just look at the last time you felt victimised. Just look at the last time you were criticised and how hurt you felt. It's impossible for any of us to see this because when we're absorbed in it and the fear and panic is there, number one and number two, you're sucked into the object, that your mind is full, full of the object. Report an error in the passage at 8:10 Highlight the passage at 8:10

8:34 Full of the person who did it to you. Or if it's attachment, full of the person you're so desirous of. Full of the chocolate cake you want to get in your mouth, you know. Your mind is overwhelmed by that object. So it's like your mind and the object sort of just merge and it's impossible to separate them. You understand? So using another example of a type of delusion, you know, like let's say I always think of the example of a person who's a really fundamentalist, like religious person, you know. Report an error in the passage at 8:34 Highlight the passage at 8:34

9:01 All that is is just another, it's just a viewpoint. They're all just viewpoints. But this is a particular viewpoint that is obsessively thinking that you're correct in thinking this is this and this is this, which means therefore you're wrong. Now for that person who's caught up in that view, just like this friend on the phone or just like when you're really angry or just like when you're really jealous, when you're caught up in that one, even this is the point, another way to say it is it's impossible to see how you have a viewpoint. Report an error in the passage at 9:01 Highlight the passage at 9:01

9:27 The person who's really fundamentalist or the racist or something, they don't think, oh, I'm seeing this person in this way, but I'm sure they're not really that way, it's just my view. I mean, that's a very intelligent statement. When you can begin to see that, when you can speak this way, you are really developing wisdom. You get my point here. But when we believe what I'm seeing is how it is, but it's right, he did do this, that's the fundamentalist view. Report an error in the passage at 9:27 Highlight the passage at 9:27

9:52 I mean, we mightn't think of ourselves as fundamentalists, but it's a really good way to describe. All the unhappy states of mind, the stronger they are, the more fundamentalist, the more fixated we are, the more obsessive, the more rigid, the more concrete. You get my point? That's how they function. So knowing this intellectually, knowing the characteristics, intellectually knowing the characteristics of the unhappy states of mind is an incredibly necessary thing because then you have something to apply when you start to look at yourself. Report an error in the passage at 9:52 Highlight the passage at 9:52

10:26 Oh, well, anger. When you're very angry, you're very fixated on something and you start to see your anger. Well, look, it's true. I am fixated. You've got something to work with, you know. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? You have some tools, some intellectual tools. From having learned it, you then apply it in the experience, you know. So if we don't even, this is the thing too, if we don't even know. Report an error in the passage at 10:26 Highlight the passage at 10:26

10:46 I mean, because we're so used to hearing words like anger, attachment, jealousy. For us in the West, we just call them emotions, you know. We don't really define them. I mean, excuse me, we do, but everybody has a different definition according to which psychology you study. You understand, there's no common ground. So this is why if you do think you like the Buddha's tools, if you like the Buddha's approach, then you've got to start to think like a Buddhist. Report an error in the passage at 10:46 Highlight the passage at 10:46

11:15 So don't on the one side say anger and mean it in a Western way and then sort of try to apply it in a Buddhist way because it's very different actually. You're understanding my point. You've got to be very clear and precise. Like if you're going to make a cake, you've got to be precise. But we're not used to that idea when it comes to spiritual. We don't think of precision when we come to spiritual, but that's the unique approach in the Buddhist one in terms of understanding the mind, your thoughts, your feelings, how they function. Report an error in the passage at 11:15 Highlight the passage at 11:15

11:40 Because having these tools, having this intellectual understanding is a starting point. Everything always starts with the intellectual. Then this gives you the tools to start sorting through the mess when you're in the midst of it. It gives you an ability to start... Interpreting what you're feeling. Literally, I mean literally being your own psychoanalyst, you know. But it takes enormous courage. Because when everything's going cool, who wants to look at their mind? Report an error in the passage at 11:40 Highlight the passage at 11:40

12:06 You get my point? When everything's fine and people love you and work's going well, who cares about looking at your mind? You're just absorbed in the pleasure, you know. It's only when things go bad that we start freaking out. And that's always the best time to start looking. Report an error in the passage at 12:06 Highlight the passage at 12:06

12:18 That's when all the churches get full, isn't it? When everything goes wrong and September 11 happens. Maybe even now the churches are full of people who are losing their money, you know? So it's only when things go bad. So that's okay. That's how we are. So we learn to look at those situations. But this is such a crucial starting point. We've got to get this understanding. Report an error in the passage at 12:18 Highlight the passage at 12:18

12:38 It's kind of really simple. You can divide the universe into two things. In terms of this discussion, the universe consists of precisely two phenomena. Report an error in the passage at 12:38 Highlight the passage at 12:38

12:47 The world itself, all those things out there dancing in front of you, the people, the things, the events, the smells, the tastes, the touches, all the stuff out there, there's that and then there's your view of that. You see my point? There's that and then there's your view of that. And what we're talking here is your view of that. It's really a very simple concept. Report an error in the passage at 12:47 Highlight the passage at 12:47

13:07 But whereas we in the West, because we believe in the external world as being the world of being life, To think about understanding the universe sounds quite complex. Sounds like you've got to become like Einstein or something. No, no. The Buddhist approach is you learn to know your mind because your mind is the interpreter of the world. Report an error in the passage at 13:07 Highlight the passage at 13:07

13:28 Of course, you need to learn about microphones. That's cool. If you're talking about the external world, you know, you can learn about the atoms and the this and the that. That's cool. But when we talk about people, we're not talking about their atoms. You understand my point? We're not talking about their elbows. We're talking about the dynamic of the relationship, you know. Report an error in the passage at 13:28 Highlight the passage at 13:28

13:51 So first knowing this intellectually is absolutely crucial and then applying it a thousand times a day. Every time you see yourself absorb and you start to hear the commentary, she this and she that and it this and not fair this and how dare this, when you hear the voice of the ego and the irony of the ego voice, remember, is its self-pity. Report an error in the passage at 13:51 Highlight the passage at 13:51

14:12 You check every time. If your mind is feeling happy and positive and constructive and beneficial and rejoicing in other people and kind, that ain't ego, okay? That is not suffering. That's virtue. And that's great. More of that, please. But when you hear the mind when it's uncontrolled, you're not sitting there ever having uncontrolled thoughts about being kind to others, are you? Report an error in the passage at 14:12 Highlight the passage at 14:12

14:33 You understand my point? It's not like you cuss, oh, I just can't stop thinking about being kind to others. I don't know what to do. I've got to get to sleep at night, you know. Believe me, that's not what keeps us awake. You hear my point? It's anxiety and what the person thinks and all the jobs we've got to do and how we can't cope with it and how it's not fair and this is too much and I can't handle it and what the husband this and the kids that and the money this and the rent. Report an error in the passage at 14:33 Highlight the passage at 14:33

14:54 Get my point here. That's what keeps us awake. That's what ego is. Ego is anxious. Ego is fearful. Ego is depressed. Ego is angry. Ego is jealous. That's the voice of ego. These are the voices of ego and these are the neurotic ones and these are the source of our pain. you know? And This is the point I'm making here, the particular point, let's look at it again more in detail. They are all simply viewpoints, they're attitudes, they are interpretations but they're dressed up in all this heavy energy, you know, dressed up in this big fat feeling of fear. Report an error in the passage at 14:54 Highlight the passage at 14:54

15:27 So the fear is sort of like the emotional energy of these delusions but their actual bare bones function is as concepts, is as interpretations. Is this really clear? Do you really hear it when I say it? Or are you thinking about it? Report an error in the passage at 15:27 Highlight the passage at 15:27

15:42 Say what you're telling me. Say what you're hearing here. What are you hearing right here? Report an error in the passage at 15:42 Highlight the passage at 15:42

15:52 Is causing our problems, not the external objects. And I think what's challenging for me is it's easy to talk about it and think about it intellectually in the confines of this room. That's right. But applying it in real life, it's almost like the rug's pulled out from under you. Even if I tell myself when things are going on, this is just a viewpoint. Report an error in the passage at 15:52 Highlight the passage at 15:52

16:15 So what does that say to you? Practice. And what do you mean by practice in this case? See, I think that's where I get stuck. Okay. Let's just say we're describing how to ride a bike here. And you're saying, I really like the theory. Sitting in this room, when we learn about the theory of bike riding, it sounds all very easy. But when I get out there to start riding a bike, it's really difficult because I keep falling off. Report an error in the passage at 16:15 Highlight the passage at 16:15

16:37 So then I say to you, so what does that say to you? And then you say, it means I have to practice. So practice what? Practice riding a bike. Right. So here, practice what? Practice. That's the point. This is the key. Challenging my viewpoints and my ego. Right. Arguing with the viewpoint. Seeing that when you're in the midst of anger, it is not fair. Report an error in the passage at 16:37 Highlight the passage at 16:37

16:57 You did this to me. How dare you do this? Those words are an opinion, a viewpoint, an interpretation of this, all based on the neurotic eye. Seeing this, then you argue with this. You know, you argue with those interpretations. Report an error in the passage at 16:57 Highlight the passage at 16:57

17:15 That's what practice. There's many other practices that make that job easier, but what we're talking here is the heart practice. In other words, let's say you're a little girl and you haven't got any muscles in your legs. Clearly, you can't ride a bike yet, even if you know the theory. So the actual practice is getting on the bike. Wouldn't you agree? But don't you have to do preliminary practices to get yourself to be able to get on the bike? Report an error in the passage at 17:15 Highlight the passage at 17:15

17:37 You've got to grow a few inches and get a bit of muscle in your legs. So you can do other practices to help your muscles get strong. They're preliminary practices. They're extra practices. The actual practice. So there are practices that help you practice. Are you with me? So here the same. So the Buddhist one, the actual practice, the bare bones one, is changing your thoughts. Report an error in the passage at 17:37 Highlight the passage at 17:37

17:57 But we're not strong enough to do that yet because we can't even see their thoughts. That's why in the Buddhist practice when people take it on board, we have these other practices that are sort of like priming you to be able to do it like getting muscles is. Are you hearing my sort of point here? And that we take on as and when we feel. We're talking about the actual heart practice of being a Buddhist, changing the way we see our life right there. Report an error in the passage at 17:57 Highlight the passage at 17:57

18:24 It sounds simple, like you said, the theory, but you just have to keep going at it. And even if we do it once a day. Because the Buddha is saying, we're so used to seeing things in this way, we've been doing it for eons, he says. I mean, forget even just this life. So we're talking a tough practice here. But all we can do is start, isn't it? And then the next practice would be then to be humble enough in the face of the fact that you can't do it very well and you keep falling off the bike. Report an error in the passage at 18:24 Highlight the passage at 18:24

18:48 But that's cool. Because we know that practice makes perfect. And I think part of our biggest problem when it comes to this kind of practice, we all feel like we're not succeeding. We all feel like we're doing a bad job. Because there's an expectation implied in that that you should be better than you are. So the point I'm making here is we are novices at it. Report an error in the passage at 18:48 Highlight the passage at 18:48

19:09 It is a long-term job. It does take time. So this other practice is to learn to say... This is fine. I'm doing okay. And this is an advanced practice to learn to enjoy the problem, enjoy the challenge. That's our biggest one because we then fall off the bike and we all have a mental breakdown. Mummy, I can't do it. I'm going to give up. I tried meditating and it doesn't work, we'll say. So the other one here is it is long term, honey. Report an error in the passage at 19:09 Highlight the passage at 19:09

19:39 It is long term. So do not judge your practice as successful. With any idea that you can actually do it well. It just really does take time. So as we get braver like this we start to enjoy the practice and even not to freak out about it. We start to get braver in the face of it. Are you hearing my point here? Report an error in the passage at 19:39 Highlight the passage at 19:39

20:04 Because that's the thing. It's not as if the practice doesn't work. It just takes time. We all give up. We assume we should be better than we are. We assume because we've ridden the bike for a year we should be like Lance Armstrong. It's just a wrong assumption. It's a wrong expectation. And that's the problem here. You get my point? So to really get it down, because you're dead right. It is easy when you hear any theory. Report an error in the passage at 20:04 Highlight the passage at 20:04

20:25 It's easy. You can write it on a piece of paper. It's all very clear. But you've got to start with that. Then the hard work starts. You understand? But if you don't have your theory, which is like your map, you just get completely lost. What were you going to say? It's a little more about the theory because I actually came in with some specific questions. Report an error in the passage at 20:25 Highlight the passage at 20:25

20:46 Good, come on then. Come out with them. But I can save it for later if you have other plans. No, no, as you wish. Go on. I just finished the Lojong class with Venerable Chucky and found it very challenging. It's outrageous, I agree. Yeah, the Lojong teachings were like a bizarro universe. It's just completely contrary to how I was raised and especially at work. Report an error in the passage at 20:46 Highlight the passage at 20:46

21:08 I work in a corporate environment and the kind of things that you're taught specifically as a woman about how to succeed in those environments. So there were a couple of verses especially. I know. I can't recite them, but it was two and five that stuck in my head. I hear you, honey child. They're outrageous. I agree. Yeah. Let's talk about these. This is good. And I think Venerable Cherokee gave me some really good advice and it sounded like, okay, I could try this because, not to get into too much detail, I have a challenging situation with someone at work. Report an error in the passage at 21:08 Highlight the passage at 21:08

21:35 But what I realized was, It's a pattern because I always seem to find one person who I find challenging, you know, not to make it all overly dramatic, like a nemesis, but there's one person who irritates the hell out of me. Every little thing they do, I see through that filter. Well, may I ask everybody to put their hand up if they have a similar situation in their life? Excuse me, look around. Report an error in the passage at 21:35 Highlight the passage at 21:35

21:59 Yeah. And it really creeped me out that it's the same pattern. So clearly what's the common denominator? Me. And even if I try to tell myself this is just my view, the emotions feel so real. That's right. They are. Yeah. And they are. But then so then? Yeah. So I was trying to describe like the specific things that these other people do. And, you know, Venerable Chucky said, well, you know, do you ever find that you do those things? Report an error in the passage at 21:59 Highlight the passage at 21:59

22:23 And I thought, oh, God, yeah, I do it all the time because it's about. Again, in a corporate environment like jockeying for position and trying to get credit for things and being the one out in front. That's right, exactly. So her suggestion, I was kind of shaking my head when she told me and I tried it in real life and like in equestrian terms, I just like refused the jump. Report an error in the passage at 22:23 Highlight the passage at 22:23

22:42 That's right. Part of me was just like, no effing way. That's right, exactly. What was it she suggested? To paraphrase, it was like, give them what they want. Oh, I see. You know, kind of if... If it's about jockeying for position, let that person be first. And I'm sorry, I'm probably butchering her words a little bit, but that was the gist of it to me, is that you don't have to be the right one all the time. Report an error in the passage at 22:42 Highlight the passage at 22:42

23:06 Okay, let me just put all this into context now, these approaches into context. You know, it's like, as we know, especially the Tibetan way of packaging Buddha's teachings and Buddha's practices, it's very structured. It's sort of like step by step. You know, they have this term called lamrim, which means graded path. It's kind of a quaint phrase for the word course. When you learn music, you do a course, don't you? Report an error in the passage at 23:06 Highlight the passage at 23:06

23:32 When you learn math, you do a course. When you learn bookkeeping, you do a course. Everything begins at the beginning and then you get better and better. So those teachings you're just describing are like university, the university approach. That's right. Report an error in the passage at 23:32 Highlight the passage at 23:32

23:46 The essence of that approach is the one that they call exchanging self for others. It all sounds kind of cute. And this is the thing about religion, religious teachings, spiritual teachings. We gloss over them, make them sound all gooey. We think they've got to sort of feel all emotional. Don't hear it like this. Try to hear it as practical and very kind of to do with viewpoint. Report an error in the passage at 23:46 Highlight the passage at 23:46

24:05 So in order to do that, as Pabongka Rinpoche in the Lamrim teachings said, you need to be a suitable vessel. To practice those teachings. So now this, my friend on the phone, not only could I not even give him any advice because he, forget about giving, I mean to imagine saying well take the victory and let, you know, be happy that she's abusing you would be the most insane thing you could possibly say to a person who's completely destroyed by self-loathing and hopelessness. Report an error in the passage at 24:05 Highlight the passage at 24:05

24:35 I mean it would be, it would be poison to say that to this person. Even for most of us it's tough and we have some self-respect. So what suitable vessel means. If it's university, it means a person who's done some junior school and high school. So what's junior school? Well, junior school is not even about your mind yet. In Buddhism, junior school is just control your mouth and control your body. Report an error in the passage at 24:35 Highlight the passage at 24:35

24:54 Don't speak too bad, don't badmouth, don't punch, don't kill, don't steal, don't sleep around with other people's partners. It means control your body and speech. You get my point here? Behave nicely. Because we can all see in this world, our mind might be the source, but it's the fact that we behave badly that the world is suffering. Report an error in the passage at 24:54 Highlight the passage at 24:54

25:09 You get my point? If we all behaved nicely, we'd be a very happy world. So the junior school in Buddhism is just behave nicely. Protect yourself. Practice the new thing of disciplining your body and speech. And half the time at work, this would be a blissful thing for us. I mean, we vomit everything out of our mouth. We cause all the dramas. We talk behind. There's all the politics. We set ourselves up for abuse back. Report an error in the passage at 25:09 Highlight the passage at 25:09

25:30 You understand? By vomiting out. But it really protected your mouth. No one could use anything against you almost, you know. So the first level of practice, junior school is that. The second level, and that's what we're talking here, we're talking high school here, not even university. High school is learning to understand about our mind, beginning to look inside the mind, beginning to distinguish between the neuroses and the virtues. Report an error in the passage at 25:30 Highlight the passage at 25:30

25:52 You get my point here. Why it is we even suffer in the first place. Once you've got a handle on that, and that's already pretty advanced, then you're a suitable vessel to start doing this stuff. So, of course, all of this stuff, you don't wait until you're perfected high school before you practice the university. You can also, we can do them all simultaneously according to our capacity. Report an error in the passage at 25:52 Highlight the passage at 25:52

26:10 So obviously the extent to which you can do university is the extent to which you've accomplished any high school. But we can try, you know. You can try giving the victory one time. You can try, as it says in verse 2, when you're with others, see yourself as the lowest of all. Now if you're not a suitable vessel, and my friend on the phone, you know, he would say, but I already see myself as the total most disgusting worm on earth. Report an error in the passage at 26:10 Highlight the passage at 26:10

26:34 Because every word he was saying was this grotesque view of this absolutely destroyed person, you know. So that would be insane for him to even hear those words, see yourself as the lowest of all. So obviously the meaning is a person who is like His Holiness. I mean, okay, he's a good example because he's kind of, they say he's perfected this path. Report an error in the passage at 26:34 Highlight the passage at 26:34

26:55 When he's around other people, everybody I've ever interviewed and talked to, done stories and things in the Mandela magazine, who've been around the Dalai Lama. They all say they feel like the most loved person on earth because guess what? He makes them feel that way. So for him to make people feel that way, he's got to be a pretty together person, doesn't he? Report an error in the passage at 26:55 Highlight the passage at 26:55

27:12 I mean, my friend on the phone can't make anybody feel good because he's feeling so loathsome himself. So to even begin to think, if I could work, for you to sit in your mind at home and think of all the different people. And a practical approach of this one would be to think of, let's say, the person you can't stand, the one who throws everything at you. Report an error in the passage at 27:12 Highlight the passage at 27:12

27:32 Even begin by trying to think of one good thing about this person. Because when we understand that it's view, it's a dynamic thing because they're certainly seeing you in a certain way. You can't say they're not. But the point is in this discussion we're not discussing their view. We're discussing your response to their view and then your view of them, you know. Report an error in the passage at 27:32 Highlight the passage at 27:32

27:50 So then even if you can just begin to crack open the whole picture you have, because if you wrote down the words, if you wrote a description of this person, okay, just speak a couple of sentence description of this person as your delusions see them, just speak honestly. Your delusions view of this person. Speak honestly what your delusions think. Difficult in working with other people, not willing to share information, looking to promote themselves ahead of others. Report an error in the passage at 27:50 Highlight the passage at 27:50

28:17 Those are my delusions. No, they're the main things you're seeing in this person. Anything else? What else do you don't like about them? What else do you see in them? Say all the things. The stuff I don't like? That's what I'm talking about. Say everything about them that you see. Report an error in the passage at 28:17 Highlight the passage at 28:17

28:29 Paint the picture of this person, please. Give us a really full picture of this person, warts and all. We want to hear it because we want to hear Delusion's picture. She's annoying. Right, go on. Good. Say it all. Good. She's competitive. She's jealous. She's spiteful. Good. Come on. Good. Great. Say it more. Say it all. Every single thing you think. Report an error in the passage at 28:29 Highlight the passage at 28:29

28:46 There's some good stuff too. No, you see that. Yeah. Okay, forget the good stuff. Okay. What you've done is just paint a picture verbally of a person, haven't you? So then what we have to find out, as we know, this is the exercise to do, which part of you has painted that picture? So clearly it's your... OK, put it this way. The source of this one... OK, there's two things here. One, you might be right about her. Report an error in the passage at 28:46 Highlight the passage at 28:46

29:11 You could be giving an accurate description of this person. You understand my point? It could be some wisdom in you can see that she is in fact like that. So it could be actually an accurate picture. But the thing for you, us to look at, because we're all the same, is to see why that in her... It triggers this unhappiness and fear in you and therefore causes you to only see that part. I mean, you see the good, but it's kind of difficult. So the key one, I mean, I'm talking two different things, several different points here. Report an error in the passage at 29:11 Highlight the passage at 29:11

29:41 One is you might be right, because one of the things we think when Buddhism says it's all in your own mind, it's just a view, we sort of get confused, but we think, but she really is like that. Other people see it this way too. So it's not as if we're saying she's not like that. When you describe Hitler, you're not saying it's just your delusion. Report an error in the passage at 29:41 Highlight the passage at 29:41

29:58 It's a fact that he killed these people. You've got to find the facts from the fiction. So you can see probably that she is doing those things. But what happens is this, because of our own ego grasping, our own fears, our own anger, our own jealousy, our own hurt, our own need to be seen, that kind of like sort of points out those pieces. Report an error in the passage at 29:58 Highlight the passage at 29:58

30:20 And that's why those pieces are vivid to you. Is because of this, whatever it is in you that that triggers. Yeah, it's very how dare she. Yeah, that's right. Like that's the big filter, I think. And so, I mean, I'm talking a bunch of different things here, you know. Report an error in the passage at 30:20 Highlight the passage at 30:20

30:37 So one practical approach for you, a practical technique, like, you know, Chucky all gave you one, fantastic. Another practical approach, and this is really excellent for any of us. You know, you've written down, it's like a verbal picture, you've written down, and you've got to be honest with what picture it is. Don't pretend you don't think it. You've got to see you think it and then you have to look at it. Report an error in the passage at 30:37 Highlight the passage at 30:37

30:57 And then you've got to describe which part of your mind is seeing it. So clearly it's the angry mind. It's anger. So what is, okay, let's guess it's down to the nuts and bolts. What is anger? So the Buddha's view of the mind, it comes down to the deluded ones, the voices of ego. There are precisely three main ones. Report an error in the passage at 30:57 Highlight the passage at 30:57

31:14 The root of the roots of the roots, the mother of them all, is this one that's called ignorance. But its main function here in terms of these three delusions is this kind of really profound Uncaring, kind of a thick kind of ignorant uncaring. So if you think, and then the other one is attachment and the third one is anger. So if you think of these three, and once we get a sense of these three, it's very powerful. Report an error in the passage at 31:14 Highlight the passage at 31:14

31:37 There's no fourth category here. So you think about the world. You either have people you're attracted to, which is a function, we're talking delusions now, okay, we're not talking the good qualities. That's the function of attachment. The attachment in us, the neediness in it, sees a certain person. Report an error in the passage at 31:37 Highlight the passage at 31:37

31:54 They appear nice to us and so we run towards them. You understand? The aversion in us, the anger in us, an aversion is just the state of mind that's beneath what we call anger. And that sees, like in this case with you, you see this person and it's irritating and annoying and what all these, you understand these qualities. Report an error in the passage at 31:54 Highlight the passage at 31:54

32:12 Now the third option is, the third quality, there's friends, there's enemies and the third category is strangers. So this indifference is what we have towards them. Now if you think of the world, it's divided into these three categories. There are people we're attracted to, whom we keep close, whom we have attachment for. Report an error in the passage at 32:12 Highlight the passage at 32:12

32:31 And of course we love them as well, but forget the good qualities right now. We're looking at the delusions. There are the people we have aversion for, who irritate us, annoy us, whom we hate, we want to kill, however degree. They're the enemies. And then you have 99.9999 % of the universe and they're in the third category called strangers. And how do we think about them? We couldn't care less. Report an error in the passage at 32:31 Highlight the passage at 32:31

32:52 Look at the people in your... You work in a big corporation? So there must be 90 % of those people you haven't got a clue about, right? They could be 10 times worse than her, right? But you don't even know them and you don't care. Why? Because they don't do it to you. So we can see, first of all, how these three ways of describing the... Report an error in the passage at 32:52 Highlight the passage at 32:52

33:11 Occupants of this universe into friends, who are the object of our attachment, which means they do what we want. They think what we want. They please us. Enemies, they don't do what we want. And strangers, they do neither. The way we do this, this is the way the universe works. And it's quite marvellous to see it this way. Report an error in the passage at 33:11 Highlight the passage at 33:11

33:30 There's no fourth category. There are people who do what you like, and that includes the animals. You know, all the sentient beings that you like, your pussy, wussy and your little poodle or whatever it is. And then your friends who, and it's not being cruel about us, just observe it, you know. They're the ones who satisfy our attachment. Report an error in the passage at 33:30 Highlight the passage at 33:30

33:46 So we magnetise by them, we run to them. We want to keep with those people, we want to be kind to those people because they'll be kind back to us and all this kind of thing. That's attachment. Report an error in the passage at 33:46 Highlight the passage at 33:46

33:56 I'm not talking about the good part of it. I'm not discussing that it's good to have, not good to have friends and love and all that. I'm not discussing the virtuous. I'm looking at the delusion that runs the show here. Then you have those for whom you have aversion and she's in that category for you, isn't it? And then you have the ones who do neither. And this is always very sort of kind of humbling because we always give the logic. Report an error in the passage at 33:56 Highlight the passage at 33:56

34:18 One of the commonest things we say, let's say, I mean you haven't said this yet, but the commonest thing we might say about a real troublemaker at work who harms others and all this, but we have to do something about it for the sake of others. I know you're not saying that, but you know, it's like, well, let me point you out then, I'll say to you, the person next door who's even abusing their workers even more, why aren't you starting a campaign against them? Report an error in the passage at 34:18 Highlight the passage at 34:18

34:39 You know, why not? Because they're not harming you. So we can see that it's always self-centred. This is not trying to be cruel, it's just observing how these work, these states of mind work, you know. So in their nature, the way... The delusions function is they're primordially self-centred. They are just naturally self-centred. They're naturally, the reference point in these views is this unhappy eye, you know. Report an error in the passage at 34:39 Highlight the passage at 34:39

35:00 It's sort of just, it's good to hear it intellectually. But then we can begin to open up. So in relation to that, okay, let me now say another point. Does she feel about you the same way you feel about her, you think? Report an error in the passage at 35:00 Highlight the passage at 35:00

35:13 You think she does probably? Yes. Okay. So if she were in this chair here and I was asking her this question, she'd probably paint a similar picture of you. What would she say about you, do you think? How do you think she sees you? What would her view of you be? That's the other creepy part. I think she would probably use the same words that I use. You think so? Oh, yeah. And that was another thing that came up when we did the Lojong class. Report an error in the passage at 35:13 Highlight the passage at 35:13

35:35 Because I did recognize that this is a pattern. It's not just this one person. It's not the first time it ever happened. And there was a suggestion that perhaps, you know, is that what I'm putting out there? And then I tried to tie it back to my karma because, you know, I've created the causes or the conditions to have this experience in this relationship with this person and have her have that karmic experience, excuse me, appearance. Report an error in the passage at 35:35 Highlight the passage at 35:35

35:57 So it started, I mean, it's tough to look at to think that. Am I getting those behaviors from another person because that's how I've behaved towards others, not just her? But even forget the karmic one, you know, just looking at our minds now. So you feel that she might describe you in a similar way? Yeah. Okay. So this is the thing about, okay, so the point I'm getting at here is as a technique, you know, and this is not even yet completely kind of doing as much as Lojong, this is even sort of middle way, is to first, once we comprehend. Report an error in the passage at 35:57 Highlight the passage at 35:57

36:29 That when you write that portrait down, you have to then, by reading it, I can see, you know, anybody reading it, if we have an understanding of the mind, could see, oh, well, that's the view of aversion. So if you wrote this down, oh, she's really beautiful and she's so kind, I like being with her and we have cups of tea together and she listens to me, we could say, that could be true too. Report an error in the passage at 36:29 Highlight the passage at 36:29

36:47 But we'd also say that's the view of attachment. Because when it's attachment, everything looks all starry-eyed and gorgeous. When it's aversion, it all looks ugly and bleak. And both of them are blinkered. This is the interesting point. This is another thing. Once we can start to see this characteristic of the unhappy states of mind, I tell you we're really making progress. Report an error in the passage at 36:47 Highlight the passage at 36:47

37:05 And that is that the unhappy states of mind, the delusions, the neuroses, they are completely distorted views. They blind us from seeing the whole picture. They are partial. So you know yourself, if you were to read a description, this woman's description of you, you would immediately say, but that's not fair. Report an error in the passage at 37:05 Highlight the passage at 37:05

37:26 It's sort of like she just drew a picture of you, but she put one eye, a nose, one arm and four toes. You say, but no, there's more of me than that. You get my point here? Because what delusions do is see only what they want. Like the racist. With that delusion of ignorance, this is the ignorance one, which is very concrete, very fixated, very narrow-minded, very ignorant, you know, all they can see is a certain colour and then they project onto that colour certain characteristics. Report an error in the passage at 37:26 Highlight the passage at 37:26

37:55 Do you understand? And so anybody who is that person, excuse me, they're not seeing the real me here, we all can see that when a person doesn't like us or even when a person's very attached to us, especially if we're not attached back. If we're attached back, we don't care that they see a lovely picture because we are so greedy for it. But especially if a person is all needy and attached to us, you get my point here, they're not seeing the real, we can see we're not seeing the whole person. Report an error in the passage at 37:55 Highlight the passage at 37:55

38:19 And this is the key characteristic of the unhappy states of mind. They're liars, they're partial, they distort certain aspects and blow them up like to make a mountain out of a molehill, like our grandmas told us. And that's the killer about them. Report an error in the passage at 38:19 Highlight the passage at 38:19

38:36 In answer to that, you write your picture in your mind, be very honest with it, your aversions picture, your anger picture of this person, but then what you've got to do to counteract it is start writing as if you're practising the kind version of her. You're practising drawing a kind picture. So you purposely in your mind, don't force a feeling, but you purposely try to think of some good qualities too. Now I remember, this was years ago when I first became a nun, working with a person who was my boss, and I was a nun at the time. Report an error in the passage at 38:36 Highlight the passage at 38:36

39:06 I should be completely embarrassed to confess it, but I'm just an example, my crazy mind. I cannot describe how I hated this person. Lama Yeshe put me in this job and I know very well his wisdom was so that I could learn about my garbage old anger and my garbage old pride. He dumped me in the middle of this dreadful, I knew even when I first heard this person's name, this is like 30 years ago, I'll never forget. I was in India and this person was in England and I was going to go and work at that job in England for Lama Yeshe. Report an error in the passage at 39:06 Highlight the passage at 39:06

39:32 I just heard this person's name. I swear I wanted to kill him right there. Talk about karma, you know. And for two, I think three years, it was the most intense practice of my life and I'm really not joking. So all the theory, like you're saying, I knew all the theory and every day I'd practice and every day I'd cry and every day I'd just... And then one day, after three years of enormous struggle and fighting and yelling because I'm a pretty crazy person, but I was really working on it, you know. Report an error in the passage at 39:32 Highlight the passage at 39:32

39:59 It took three years. And one day I woke up and suddenly... It had cracked open. Suddenly I didn't hate him anymore. But it was enormously difficult. And I remember Lama Yeshi was there at the time and he cracked a joke about this person because knowing perfectly well what I was thinking all these years. Report an error in the passage at 39:59 Highlight the passage at 39:59

40:14 And I said, oh Lama, I don't hate him anymore. And he took my face and gave me a big kiss. He was blissed out. You understand? So it's like, but also this is what I'm getting at. Another point here too is I began to have the courage, not in the first year or even the second, to think good things about him. It was too terrifying because you don't want to think good things about him. Report an error in the passage at 40:14 Highlight the passage at 40:14

40:32 You don't want to because anger just wants to hate. So you have to do it. That's the practice. It's so powerful. But the other one, darling, do not expect immediate results. That's the killer. It takes time. Can I ask a question about your experience? Because you don't strike me as a real shy and retiring person. Report an error in the passage at 40:32 Highlight the passage at 40:32

40:50 You're probably right. When you were working with this person, did you... Was that part of what you struggled with? What do you mean? I mean, was it similar to my story where it was about acknowledgement and who's in front or that level of kind of ego and who's right and things like that? Oh, totally all that, yes. But I wasn't retiring about my expressing my thoughts. Right. And this whole thing about giving the victory. And I get, and you've said this before too, separate from like, you know, Lojong issues, that it's not about being a doormat. Report an error in the passage at 40:50 Highlight the passage at 40:50

41:22 Nothing we learn here. Not possible. That's the thing. If you're not a suitable vessel, don't try that practice. Don't try to give the victory. It's too painful. Like the person on the phone. I couldn't tell him this. Even in two million years, he wouldn't be able to hear it. It would put a knife in his heart. It's an advanced practice to actually give the victory in the face of being blamed for something. Report an error in the passage at 41:22 Highlight the passage at 41:22

41:43 I'm like another person I know. His mind just pointing out a fault that he does. He's hysterical, like literally hysterical, almost screaming, hyperventilating. So intense is the ego. So forget to try to do anything more advanced than that, you know, because this is how deep ego grasping is. It is so the gripping at the eye. This is the deepest of the deepest delusions that attachment and aversion are the voices of. The deepest primordial instinctive panic-stricken sense of eye is so primordial. Report an error in the passage at 41:43 Highlight the passage at 41:43

42:20 So it's like as scary as hell, you know, when it doesn't get what it wants. So to actually consciously give the victory, to consciously take the blame is a terrifyingly profound practice. You've got to be very, very brave because it feels like you're being annihilated. When you even blame for something even that you did do, it is terrifying. Forget about taking the blame for something you didn't do. Report an error in the passage at 42:20 Highlight the passage at 42:20

42:42 I mean, you understand my point. So we've got to know where we're at. You've really got to know where you're at and what you can do, you know. And all we're doing here is talking thoughts, talking to ourself, being our own therapist, changing the way we see the world. That's all we're talking here. Not getting a big feeling for anything. It's one step at a time. But of course the major one here is this capacity. And this is the thing about the suffering of my friend on the phone this morning. Report an error in the passage at 42:42 Highlight the passage at 42:42

43:10 There's no way in the universe he can see that he thinks anything. There's no way in the universe he sees that he's got a view. He just thinks what he's seeing is real. You see my point? He thinks what he's seeing is real. She is this massive monster who controls his life. I mean, must be. She's just probably this pathetic, self-piteous little wimp, you know. That's all she is, but he can't see that. He sees a monster, you know. If he were to draw himself, he'd be like this big and she'd be this big monster in leather, you know, with whips. Report an error in the passage at 43:10 Highlight the passage at 43:10

43:41 You understand? How we see people is really clearly our own view. It's like hilarious sometimes. Report an error in the passage at 43:41 Highlight the passage at 43:41

43:50 We're unreal, our minds. Report an error in the passage at 43:50 Highlight the passage at 43:50

43:56 See, the thing here about this one too, you are looking at yourself, you're doing the practice, you are introspective, you are working with it. And let's face it, most people you work with aren't. And that's the killer. That's the poison. So the miracle is, and this is where you really, really, really need to be so happy with yourself, and that means repeatedly tell yourself how fantastic it is that you're watching yourself. Report an error in the passage at 43:56 Highlight the passage at 43:56

44:16 You've got some introspection. You're trying to change. Because then you're going to have the courage to know that you are sowing the seeds and one day, like that one for me, after three years, it did change. One day I woke up and I didn't hate him anymore. It had to ripen. It took three years of hard work. Report an error in the passage at 44:16 Highlight the passage at 44:16

44:33 So we're in the midst of it, we're panic-stricken and we don't think it's going to change. Because again, that's one of the characteristics of all the delusions. When you're in the midst of it, you can't imagine anything different. That's why people kill themselves. You cannot imagine there's light at the end of a tunnel because that's the grip of the fear of delusion that you can't see any options, you can't see any new thing happening, you grasp at it and that's what grasping at things as self-existent means. Report an error in the passage at 44:33 Highlight the passage at 44:33

45:00 This is the absolute reality of everything and there's no alternative to it. So when you get a sense of interdependence then you get braver because you know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's sort of like again for me the great analogy is... You've got this acre of complete chaos out there, all this overgrown junk in the garden and you've now just learned botany. There's still junk in your garden. Report an error in the passage at 45:00 Highlight the passage at 45:00

45:25 The difference is before you didn't have botany so you were in a state of complete panic because you didn't know what to do with it. You're with me? And you're just finding you're getting entangled in all the garbage. That's how most people are in life. Now you've got some methods. Now you have botany. The next day you wake up and you've begun to understand botany. Nothing's gone away. It's still all revolting. Report an error in the passage at 45:25 Highlight the passage at 45:25

45:43 But now you have a method. So now you can be happy about this. That's the big difference. You get my point? That's the miracle. So you've got to keep remembering whatever method you're using, you have got a method. You have a way of understanding the chaos now. So you just have to keep pulling out the weeds one step at a time, growing the new seeds one step at a time. Report an error in the passage at 45:43 Highlight the passage at 45:43

46:04 Or again, another analogy is you're completely lost and you haven't got a map. Well, you have reason to be fearful. But if you're lost and you have a map, You're okay, aren't you? You're still lost, but you can find your way now because you've got a method to get out of it. And that's the point. The status quo is that it's still chaos. Report an error in the passage at 46:04 Highlight the passage at 46:04

46:25 We're still angry. We're still depressed. We're still jealous. We're still fearful. But the difference is we're putting beside it, next to it, a way of getting out of it. And that's the part that gives you courage. Are you seeing my point? Because I think even though I've talked about this being a pattern and I obviously right now have this one person that I'm seeing this way. Report an error in the passage at 46:25 Highlight the passage at 46:25

46:45 I have these flare-ups that just seem, you know, kind of really passionate and very real. That's right. But I think because of the work I'm doing, you know, bits and pieces, that at least it dies down. That's exactly right. And it may take an hour or two. That's right. But afterwards, then I can get back into, you know, kind of some of these tools. So do you really watch your speech? You watch your behavior? Report an error in the passage at 46:45 Highlight the passage at 46:45

47:05 You don't fight with her or anything or not? Or you kind of find yourself vomiting it all out? It's okay. I mean, we're all the same. Don't worry about it. Let me think. Report an error in the passage at 47:05 Highlight the passage at 47:05

47:15 It's maybe corporate speak vomit, you know, because you're not really tearing someone to new one and yelling at them over the phone, but it's just those carefully worded emails. Report an error in the passage at 47:15 Highlight the passage at 47:15

47:25 But I'm better at that. And then I think the other thing I used to do that I try not to do anymore is... Send an email to friends or talk to friends. That's the one, honey child. Oh my gosh. Because you know they'll agree with you. That's right. And that's the poison. That's the one that's the poison. Report an error in the passage at 47:25 Highlight the passage at 47:25

47:41 It feels really good. I mean, many times, like with us working at Liberation Prison Project, you know, I've got people to virtually vow not to speak about each other behind their backs. And I swear to you, I've even threatened to sack people. Mary can tell you. She works for me. I swear. Because, I mean, that is the poison. That's the one that destroys, you know. Report an error in the passage at 47:41 Highlight the passage at 47:41

48:03 That's the one that absolutely is. It's okay to have disagreements, but keep it to yourself because then you're working with it. Because the trouble isn't that. It's the talking behind. It's all the politics, getting people on your side and having people agree and then going behind. That's the worst evil part. Report an error in the passage at 48:03 Highlight the passage at 48:03

48:20 It's like you're creating this whole story that makes it bigger and even, I think, tougher to deal with. It is tougher, but it is that, all of that, because you're growing this big monster. And then you see, again, that points to this, that the characteristic of when we have anger and jealousy and fears and resentment is panic. Report an error in the passage at 48:20 Highlight the passage at 48:20

48:40 And when it's panic, we're like a little girl. We cannot hold it ourselves. And you know when we're a little girl and something goes wrong? This is a very powerful point, actually. Well, that's not the point I'm making, it's something else, never mind. But when you're a little girl, you can't take it. When we're little, we can't hold our emotions, can we? We run to mummy. Oh, mummy, mummy. Report an error in the passage at 48:40 Highlight the passage at 48:40

48:59 And she gives us a big hug, you know, and she calms our fears, doesn't she? She calms our fears. Now, this is the point I'm making. This is the powerful point. You listen to this. Mommy, Mommy, he did this. And you know when your eyes are big, the tears are pouring, you feel like the world collapsing around you when you're a little girl. It's impossible to hold it. You don't know how to be your own therapist yet. Report an error in the passage at 48:59 Highlight the passage at 48:59

49:17 So you run to Mommy. She embraces you. And please listen to this. What does she do? How does she make it all better? Oh, sweetheart, it's okay. And she gives you a big kiss and you suddenly feel the fear's been calmed, right? So that's what we have to do for ourselves. Be our own Mommy. She didn't do... Report an error in the passage at 49:17 Highlight the passage at 49:17

49:35 Anything at all to change a single thing, did she? She just told you it's okay. And this really proves how it's empty. She simply told you it's okay. And you believe that. Because right now you're believing it's not okay. Your little fear's in there. Mommy tells you it's okay. And you now have the courage to know it's okay. So I find that absolutely outrageous. Report an error in the passage at 49:35 Highlight the passage at 49:35

49:53 That proves emptiness. But the key point I'm pointing here is the way that the delusions have this great big... And a little girl in there, and that's why we all vomit out to everybody about everything, because we're still like little girls and boys who haven't weaned ourselves from mummy, you know. We don't know how to bear the pain. We don't know how to talk ourselves through it. So this is the most powerful practice, to have it, to be at home, weeping with yourself, but talking yourself through it. Report an error in the passage at 49:53 Highlight the passage at 49:53

50:22 This is where we grow up so quickly, I cannot describe. This is when we really begin to grow up, is to become mature people. And all a spiritual practitioner is, is a person who's mature, who can hold their own stuff, own it and change it. But we have, because in our culture we don't know about introspection, and because in our culture we do not value thoughts, and because we have to give it to somebody else, we cannot hold anything. Report an error in the passage at 50:22 Highlight the passage at 50:22

50:47 Look at the anxiety that most people feel, and half the world's on pills, you know. Because we don't know how to hold the fears. We don't know how to interpret it. We don't know where it's coming from. We don't know what to do with it. I mean, no wonder we're all going crazy. So this is where it's stupendous when we have even these internal methods to talk ourselves through the fears and keep your mouth shut. Report an error in the passage at 50:47 Highlight the passage at 50:47

51:09 Okay, have a friend or a therapist, I don't care, whom you can vomit to. But this person has to be very trustworthy and this person has to know that you're not just wanting them to reinforce your ego, but you just help that person's there like mommy. To help you hold your own stuff and understand it. Because that's all a therapist is, isn't it? That's all. They're just there. It's not because they want to know your life. It's because they're helping you hold it. Report an error in the passage at 51:09 Highlight the passage at 51:09

51:32 That's all a therapist is. We need that because we don't know how to do it ourselves. So have a good friend who does this. I remember almost the first time myself in my life when I began to appreciate this, you know. Because you just vomit everything out. So you expose yourself to everybody. You open yourself to everybody's abuse. Report an error in the passage at 51:32 Highlight the passage at 51:32

51:49 You make yourself vulnerable to everybody and we wonder why we have problems, you know, because we just, everything's out. We've got to have some self-respect. So choose one person and do not say a word to anyone else. It's such a powerful practice, I tell you, and it's a great indicator of self-respect. You understand? Because it means you're not going to abuse yourself by opening yourself to other people's abuse. Report an error in the passage at 51:49 Highlight the passage at 51:49

52:11 We get abused by others because we don't like ourselves. This boy I'm talking to on the phone, he's the most perfect example of... Self-loathing. The more he loathes himself, the more he has no confidence in himself, the more he thinks he's useless and hopeless, the more he craves her to love him. And it was just unbelievable sadness to hear his words for this one and a half hours this morning on the phone. The more she will abuse him. It's completely interdependent, you know. Report an error in the passage at 52:11 Highlight the passage at 52:11

52:40 There cannot be an abuser if there's no victim. It just cannot be, you know. I know I'm saying a few things here. Somebody else wanted to say something? Yeah, go on, Keith. Report an error in the passage at 52:40 Highlight the passage at 52:40

52:54 I think for me it's a difficulty I have in understanding the difference between being self-centered and self-cherishing. I had a man come in private practice this weekend. He did the same thing. He was complaining about his wife and his wife. And I think if the house burned down, she'd take the animals out. She'd save the cat and the dog before me. And leave him. I said to him, I said, you're going to suffer until you really realize she's right and it would be a good thing if she did that. Report an error in the passage at 52:54 Highlight the passage at 52:54

53:24 And he didn't understand, so we talked. He always did everything for his wife, but it was always in his self-cherishing way. Well, of course it is, craving for her. This is what he's doing. And I've done that. We all do it. See, this is the thing about attachment and self-cherishing. When we look at the characteristic of this attachment, this bottomless pit, this frantic bottomless pit of neediness to be approved and seen by others as good, this is the symptom. Report an error in the passage at 53:24 Highlight the passage at 53:24

53:53 And attachment is really another word for self-cherishing. Really it is. So when we can see that disease that's so primordial in every single one of us, it is the main voice of this ego grasping, you know, that it is just this desperate need to be seen by another because what it implies is, it has to imply, doesn't it, that we must not see ourself, we must not think we're valid until someone else says you're valid. Report an error in the passage at 53:53 Highlight the passage at 53:53

54:16 So right now this person is seeing himself, how she sees him, as a creep. Repulsive, revolting. And so his need, his neediness, his bottomless pit of painful attachment to be stroked by her. Like he mentioned that once in one month she just looked at him and half smiled. He was holding on to that like it's this jewel. I mean it really was the most tortuous experience hearing him. Report an error in the passage at 54:16 Highlight the passage at 54:16

54:49 But for me it's almost like an analysis of all the weeds and you're watching it how they work. Like you're looking at the cancer and understanding it was kind of horror. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because this is the depth of attachment. And we all have this. This is the point. This is what Buddha says runs the show right now. It's so primordial. Report an error in the passage at 54:49 Highlight the passage at 54:49

55:06 And so what we're doing every second, without even realizing it, and I'm again not talking about the good part of us, because the good part of us is polluted by this one. Every second, we're like a vampire. Watching the responses from each person, even the strangers, the bus driver, the next door, the car. That's why we get upset if even just a stranger honks on the horn, you know, because we're frantic every second to get good feedback because then we get the good feedback. Report an error in the passage at 55:06 Highlight the passage at 55:06

55:33 It's like putting a mirror in front of you. The feedback is a mirror and it's like the mirror, it's like when I get good feedback, you're then sort of saying to yourself, wow, I must be a nice person. This person just reflected myself back to me. So it's almost as if we don't know we exist until we have a mirror in front of us. That's how painful our attachment is. That's how primordial our suffering is. Report an error in the passage at 55:33 Highlight the passage at 55:33

55:55 And that is what Buddha is saying is the deepest suffering. It's not even the deepest. Ignorance is even deeper. The ego grasping. This is the day-to-day way that we suffer. But it's so subtle. We don't even begin to see it, and this is the point, until it gets thwarted. You know, what's your name, sweetheart? Report an error in the passage at 55:55 Highlight the passage at 55:55

56:15 Gina thinks like the rest of us, she's cool until this person, let's call her Mary, until Mary, she thinks everything's fine until Mary starts giving this ugly feedback. Then the panic starts, you know. We don't look at it until the bad stuff happens. You get my point? It's like that simple example. We wouldn't even think we're attached to something until you can't get it. So when I think of me and Keith going for chocolate cake, we must both think we like chocolate cake. Report an error in the passage at 56:15 Highlight the passage at 56:15

56:36 We don't think, oh, I'm attached to chocolate cake. I'm craving to get chocolate cake. I must get chocolate cake. I'm needy for chocolate cake. You don't think that. But look what happens when you get carrot cake. So my response, his response, this is the point, his response when he doesn't get what he wants, let's say, might be, oh that's cool I can handle carrot cake and he proceeds to enjoy it that proves he didn't have attachment for chocolate cake you get my point because he can adjust right there and turn himself around and enjoy whatever's in front of him but my response how dare you give me carrot cake I don't want carrot cake that proves I had neediness for carrot cake you get my point so if Gina was so advanced in her practice she had such self-esteem and had gone beyond attachment This Mary, it would be literally water off a duck's back. She'd just... Report an error in the passage at 56:36 Highlight the passage at 56:36

57:22 Oh, this poor girl, she'd see her, she'd feel sorry for her, she'd love her, she'd give her a hug, she'd support her, she'd praise her, she'd be kind to her and this person would adore Gina because she wouldn't see her as a threat because Gina would see her as just this unhappy person. And we know intellectually that she is that but the fact that we're threatened by it shows that we have attachment, this neediness to only get the nice things in response, only get the nice things, only get the nice smells, nice tastes, nice touch and nice words. Report an error in the passage at 57:22 Highlight the passage at 57:22

57:50 And this is the deepest attachment of all, attached to how others see us. Because, and this is a tragedy, we have no proper sense of ourself. We're so fragile. We're so kind of brokenhearted in our view of ourself that until we get a person praise us, it's like we don't think we exist. You get my point? It's really quite mentally ill, actually. Buddha says we're mentally ill, you know. Go on. Report an error in the passage at 57:50 Highlight the passage at 57:50

58:19 What, darling? Yes, much better. You stay there, Solange. Better, yeah. Go on, darling. Just a question, Venerable. Is this why the llamas tell us that our actions really should be for the benefit of others? What do you mean? Why? Because you're saying we have this primordial need. The attachment, the neurotic neediness. For feeling good, for what have you. I mean, that's such a huge, huge issue, right? No, primordial, I was being very specific there, it is to feel good, but it's to get the good feedback. Report an error in the passage at 58:19 Highlight the passage at 58:19

58:52 I'm talking very specifically about the feedback from people now. This is the deepest attachment of all. The need to have people be nice, say nice things, praise us, have a good reputation, not to mention get what we want. All that stuff, yes. So, of course, that's attachment. That's the name of it. It's this neediness, yes. It's craving. I mean, if we're constantly focused on that, we're never going to get any kind of satisfaction. Report an error in the passage at 58:52 Highlight the passage at 58:52

59:17 Precisely, that's the point. And is that why then the Lamas tell us you have to turn your mind from that? No, you've gone from high school to compassion to university with too big a leap. You've gone too big a leap. You've gone too big a leap here. The direct antidote, okay, each of the delusions has got their own very specific antidote. The most dramatic, yes, the most advanced practice, as we're talking, is the Lojong one. Report an error in the passage at 59:17 Highlight the passage at 59:17

59:42 And the way they talk about attachment at that level is the one of self-cherishing, putting eye first all the time. That's a symptom of attachment, if you like. It's another way of talking in the compassion wing, Anna. It's a more advanced practice. So the direct antidote to attachment, you could say, At the attachment level, at the high school level, is to not believe in that view of I'm nothing, I'm nobody, I'm nothing unless I get praise. Report an error in the passage at 59:42 Highlight the passage at 59:42

1:00:08 I'm nothing and nobody unless I get good reputation. It's just not true. So that means at that level it's welcoming. This is even the advanced practice too. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:08 Highlight the passage at 1:00:08

1:00:17 It's learning to go against that one. That's the real direct antidote to attachment, going against it. The advanced practice against it. Yes, indeed, that is the compassion one. That is the one of exchanging self for others. That's the advanced level of practice that completely smashes the self-cherishing, the attachment. Yes. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:17 Highlight the passage at 1:00:17

1:00:35 But I would think it'd be a very practical way of... of and making decisions in Oh, it is, but it's advanced. It's advanced, darling. If you're ready for it, go for it, Anna. Please, whatever one we're ready for, we go for it. And the fact that you hear that indicates it's a technique that works for you. So, honey child, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right, yes. But one of the direct antidotes to attachment, to really get deeply into attachment itself, is to try and... Report an error in the passage at 1:00:35 Highlight the passage at 1:00:35

1:01:06 To unravel it, to hear its voice and to hear how it is not a valid voice. That's a very tasty kind of wisdom approach to it. This is the compassion approach to it. This is the wisdom approach to it. You're hearing my point, Anna? Are you, darling? It depends on our minds. A little bit more confused now because I thought that compassion was a form of wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:06 Highlight the passage at 1:01:06

1:01:30 Sweetheart, listen. Okay. Well, yeah, it is, but it's not in the sense that we're talking here. Wisdom. The wisdom wing practice, the wisdom wing approach to the Dharma is this way I'm describing here. Forget the lojong side now. It's the one of looking into exactly what attachment is. How does it function? What is its characteristics? How does it work? Unraveling it, hearing its voice, seeing it and then counteracting it at that level, applying clarity to it. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:30 Highlight the passage at 1:01:30

1:02:01 That is the wisdom approach. The one that you're saying, which is... Some of us have more a tendency for this approach. Some of us, like you, I think, have more of a tendency towards this approach, which is the applying of kindness and thinking of others and that one. That is true. But that's an advanced level. But that's the one that comes to you. Hey, girl, go for it. Go for it. But compassion itself is not wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:01 Highlight the passage at 1:02:01

1:02:23 And wisdom itself is not compassion. But wisdom... exist on its own without compassion and compassion is limited unless it has wisdom so in that sense they're interdependent but they're specifically different other words compassion listen excuse me compassion is very simple it's defined as this it sees your suffering in my mind that part of me that sees your suffering and i reach out i think oh That's what compassion is. It's empathy with you. But put it this way. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:23 Highlight the passage at 1:02:23

1:02:56 The more I get rid of my own ego grasping, right? The more I cut the sense of separateness from you, just naturally, so therefore the bigger my compassion. So if you have a still ego grasping, your compassion is really limited because there's always a reference point of I. But the more you get rid of your ego grasping, the bigger your compassion. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:56 Highlight the passage at 1:02:56

1:03:18 But they're not each other, they're separate, but they are completely interdependent. Can you see the point I'm making? The more you develop wisdom, the bigger your compassion gets. The bigger your compassion, the bigger your wisdom. No doubt. I've actually heard you say that many times and it is quite helpful in day-to-day life. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:18 Highlight the passage at 1:03:18

1:03:40 Yes, exactly. So sort of like wisdom is the nuts and bolts of things, getting clear what is going on, what voice is speaking here, is it anger, is it attachment, is it just, it's sort of like real technical, but it's not, it's really full on. And the compassion one is just based upon that, you get a connectedness. So the more she does the wisdom side, working out, this is attachment voice, shut up Gina, this is anger, be quiet girl, come on, then the more she can, oh come on, give her a kiss, you know, the more she can have the empathy side. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:40 Highlight the passage at 1:03:40

1:04:08 Well the way you just stated it right now, in terms of Gina's example, thank you very much for sharing. That experience with us. I mean, that would be, you're saying, her ultimate resolution, solution to that problem, where she could just get beyond, you know, this poor woman suffering or have an empathy for it, compassion. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:08 Highlight the passage at 1:04:08

1:04:30 Yes. Have her own sense of, you know, who she is. Okay, that's right. So what I'm saying is this. What I'm saying is this, though. As His Holiness the Dalai Lama says, compassion is not enough. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:30 Highlight the passage at 1:04:30

1:04:44 It needs wisdom. So wisdom is like the clarity, the nuts and bolts. This is this and this is that and I am this and attachment this and jealousy that. Working out the nuts and bolts of it. On the basis of this, compassion can function. The more there is the ego grasping, the more there is the separate sense of self, which is what comes from the delusions, the less your compassion. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:44 Highlight the passage at 1:04:44

1:05:08 So for some people, you've got to do more of the wisdom side to break it all down. For other people, I think you're one of those, your tendency is more to seeing the benefit of the empathy side. We've got to have all, but eventually, but each of us has to function a different way. We've all got different approaches at different times, different things work for us. So go for it, yes, nothing wrong. It's just a question of getting it all clear where it all fits in the path, you know, and understanding the different functions of the different approaches. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:08 Highlight the passage at 1:05:08

1:05:36 That's even then by saying that it's wisdom, you know. Do you understand? Report an error in the passage at 1:05:36 Highlight the passage at 1:05:36

1:05:42 What else, folks? Any more points to bring up? This is most helpful. What, darling? Report an error in the passage at 1:05:42 Highlight the passage at 1:05:42

1:05:55 Yes. I wondered if you could talk more about ignorance and the... The ego grasping one. Yeah. And the antidote. Absolutely, yes. Well, you know, if we're looking at the model of the mind, according to the Buddha, you know, you've got sensory consciousness. And you have mental consciousness. There's just two ways that our mind functions. Our mind is not physical. Our mind is our capacity for cognition. Our mind has different ways of functioning. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:55 Highlight the passage at 1:05:55

1:06:24 One way of dividing, you have sensory consciousness. Through the eyes you have awareness of shapes. Through the ears you have awareness of sounds and so forth. That's sensory. Now they're really limited. They're just like dumb animals. They're very, very profoundly limited. Do you understand my point here? And this is already a very interesting point because we will say, Report an error in the passage at 1:06:24 Highlight the passage at 1:06:24

1:06:46 I see with my eyes a delicious chocolate cake. We will say that, won't we? Or Gina will say when she looks at Mary, oh, she's an ugly person. She thinks she's seeing with her eyes an ugly person, when in reality she's not. Eyes can only see shape and colour. All the rest of it is the story made up by the mental consciousness. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:46 Highlight the passage at 1:06:46

1:07:04 You get my point? So this is a very helpful point already. You get my point here, what I'm saying? Eyes are just bare bones, shape and colour. All the rest of it is a function of our mental consciousness, which is then imbuing our looking with a certain picture because they come together we think we're seeing it i think i'm hearing divine miles davis no i'm hearing just plain all Do you understand what I'm saying? Report an error in the passage at 1:07:04 Highlight the passage at 1:07:04

1:07:40 So all that story, that's your mental consciousness. You with me? yeah 50 years now you understand Report an error in the passage at 1:07:40 Highlight the passage at 1:07:40

1:07:45 So that's where the workshop is. That's what we have to become familiar with. What? Report an error in the passage at 1:07:45 Highlight the passage at 1:07:45

1:07:55 Sometimes I make up all sorts of stories during the day and sometimes I'm aware of them and sometimes not. Sometimes I think they're just hilarious. You mean you're just fantasizing all the time? Well, apparently. Apparently. Right. Well, honey, I think you're just seeing your mind. You're noticing this is what it does day and night. Yes, day and night. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:55 Highlight the passage at 1:07:55

1:08:12 Right, and Report an error in the passage at 1:08:12 Highlight the passage at 1:08:12

1:08:19 That's right. That's what it does. But aren't you lucky that the stories aren't like poor old BTK or like some mass murderer? Look at the stories some people get born with. Oh my God, you've got to have some compassion. They don't know why they think these things. But this is the mind of karma. Okay, that's another factor here. We come programmed already with a whole pile of stuff in there. And sometimes it shocks the hell out of us, what we see in our crazy minds. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:19 Highlight the passage at 1:08:19

1:08:40 It wears me out. There you go. That's exactly right. May I ask about another example at work? I've just begun on the other question. Don't you want me to go further? Yes, I do. I've only just touched the tip of the iceberg. Thank you. I would like you. Okay, good. Okay. So what I'm trying to get here is, and this is such a good distinction to get because we're so absorbed in our... Report an error in the passage at 1:08:40 Highlight the passage at 1:08:40

1:09:03 life about experiences through the senses that we can't distinguish between sensory and mental we wouldn't even know such a concept we know it's sort of real we know there's eyes and we know there's thinking but we so mix them together you get my point here and this is another way of getting to see very sober The part of us that makes things up, the part of us that writes the stories isn't your eyes, isn't your ears, please believe me, it's your mental consciousness. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:03 Highlight the passage at 1:09:03

1:09:27 And so it's an extra powerful way of again pointing to this mental consciousness, the thoughts, the feelings, emotions, unconscious, subconscious, instinct, intuition, all this, the entire spectrum of our stuff, as we would say, in our head, you know. Okay, that's your mental consciousness. So now, mental consciousness, according to Buddhist psychology, you can divide into three ways, that's all, that it functions. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:27 Highlight the passage at 1:09:27

1:09:54 And this is linked. The other way I said before, it has positive states of mind, negative states of mind and neutral states of mind. There's no fourth category. So, positive states of mind, they're great. They're the ones we want to try and develop. They're the ones that are at the core of our being, Buddha says. They're the ones that make us happy. They're the ones that are accurate. They're the ones that aren't delusional. They're the ones that aren't fearful. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:54 Highlight the passage at 1:09:54

1:10:18 They're the ones that are feeling good and harmonious and joyful and loving and kind and all those words. They are the ones that Buddha would say are at the core of our being and that we can develop to the fullest extent. You get my point here. Those ones, love, compassion, wisdom, kindness, harmony, joy, contentment, all those nice words. We know them all. He says they are at the core of our being. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:18 Highlight the passage at 1:10:18

1:10:39 These are the ones we're trying to grow. Now, then, what is it that stops us is a good way to put it. What is it that's holding that stuff back? That's the negative stuff. Forget the neutral, okay? Please, here, a neutral state of mind, an example of a neutral state of mind would be one that's called to remember something. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:39 Highlight the passage at 1:10:39

1:11:01 The bare capacity to remember something is neither good nor bad. It's got no virtuous quality and it has no non-virtuous quality. Do you understand my point? It's just a simple thing. The capacity to say, oh, that is a microphone. That's neither a virtuous nor non-virtuous state of mind. It's just a neutral state of mind. Well, even though you could say it's virtuous because it's correct. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:01 Highlight the passage at 1:11:01

1:11:22 But it's just something that's not virtuous and not non-virtuous. So forget the neutral. It almost doesn't matter. Here we're really concerned with learning, and this is being your own therapist, we're homing in now to where the actual job happens in the workshop of the mind, where the states of the negative and the positive, and right now they're mixed together like milk and water. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:22 Highlight the passage at 1:11:22

1:11:41 We cannot see the difference because they all come together, a million voices all at once, you know. So getting now down to the bare bones. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:41 Highlight the passage at 1:11:41

1:11:50 The ones that are holding us back, the ones that cause us suffering, the ones that are fear-based, the ones that are distorted, delusional, partial, you know, paranoid, their jealousy, the paranoia, the depression, all of those, they are the name. They are the qualities called negative state of mind. Real simple. Negative, why? Not judgmental, not kind of guilt or anything. It's simply a bare, simple bare point. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:50 Highlight the passage at 1:11:50

1:12:15 They're called negative because they... cause us suffering. They have a function of seeing things in a distorted way and therefore they cause us to harm others. The positive ones don't cause us to harm others, don't cause suffering. In fact, they cause us to benefit others. If you have love in your heart, your hand will do a nice thing to that person. You won't punch them in the nose, believe me. You get my point. So the negative states of mind are the ones we have to learn to see. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:15 Highlight the passage at 1:12:15

1:12:45 And this is the real function, the real... The expertise of Buddhist psychology, the way Buddhist psychology functions, is to learn to know first the bare bones of all of these and then through our own practice, our own meditation, our own daily application in life to get more and richer and richer experience of these states of mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:45 Highlight the passage at 1:12:45

1:13:05 You understand? And so we've mentioned some already, the three main ones, the three day-to-day, attachment, aversion and this indifference. So the one beneath these. The one that's the root of these, the one that is the heart, the source, the mother of them all, the most primordial, is simply called ignorance. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:05 Highlight the passage at 1:13:05

1:13:25 Of course, ignorance is a general English word, you know, but we're meaning a specific ignorance here. And the way the Buddha would say it is it's a state of mind that is ignorant of how things really do exist. Or, more specifically, it's got its function. Okay, okay. All the negative states of mind, one of their functions, one of their jobs is to lie. You get my point? So when Gina sees Mary, when aversion, which is the bare bones state of mind beneath anger, the negative state of mind called anger, it sees Mary in a distorted way. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:25 Highlight the passage at 1:13:25

1:14:00 It only sees, like I said before, she's got one eye, one nose, one leg and four toes. She doesn't see the whole of Mary. And we all can see this. We can see this ourselves every day. If she had attachment for Mary. She would only see the dazzling lovely things of Mary. She still doesn't see the whole Mary. She just sees all the gorgeous things. So aversion sees the ugly things and attachment sees the gorgeous things and we each exaggerate them. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:00 Highlight the passage at 1:14:00

1:14:20 You understand, don't you? You can see this. Anna, you're looking puzzled. You can see this, can't you? Anna. Of course. I wasn't trying to interpret that frown. It's okay. Excuse me. Okay. So the key thing to try and see, and this is a very specific way that Buddha talks in Buddha psychology. Which I think is unique to his approach. These negative states of mind have two main functions. One is they, and this is plain and obvious, they're really disturbing. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:20 Highlight the passage at 1:14:20

1:14:48 You know, your mind's uncontrolled, you're feeling distressed, panicked, anxious, worried, jealous, depressed. All those feelings themselves, there's a gripping there, isn't there? Like an unhappy feeling, right? We all know that one deeply and well. That's one of the gross functions of... The negative states of mind. The other one, which I've been saying, is they're liars. They're distorted. They don't tell the true picture. You understand? Report an error in the passage at 1:14:48 Highlight the passage at 1:14:48

1:15:12 So attachment lies insofar as if it's running the show, what it's seeing, the person, the event, the thing, the thought, it sees it as delicious. It runs to it. You're magnetized by it. You can't stop thinking about it. You want it. You imagine it. You project it. You go there. And this is the state of mind you're describing. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:12 Highlight the passage at 1:15:12

1:15:32 You're not describing having angry thoughts. You don't want to kill people or anything. It's your uncontrolled story making. Attachment has a capacity for being very creative. You understand? And it just can't stop. That's attachment function. That's one of its functions. It goes on and on and embellishes things and makes it up and goes here and goes there. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:32 Highlight the passage at 1:15:32

1:15:49 It's the fantasy mind, you know? That's attachment. One of its functions is that. So, yeah, so one of its functions is it makes things look more delicious than they are. So that's one attachment to a person or attachment to the cake or attachment to your new handbag or something. It looks delicious. You can't stop thinking about it. You get my point? Report an error in the passage at 1:15:49 Highlight the passage at 1:15:49

1:16:08 And then it starts to make all the big story. You get my point? That's attachment. It's very multifaceted in its function. But it's sort of like a gooey, nice feeling there. Although it's uncontrolled. We wish it would shut up sometimes. But when we're caught up in the pleasant story, you know, like when we're in love with a person, you fantasize day and night about them. That's attachment. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:08 Highlight the passage at 1:16:08

1:16:26 You can't stop thinking and you don't want to when it's attachment. But if it's anger, you can see. You also start cop thinking. You start can't stop thinking, but you wish you could. Because it's so painful, isn't it? It's so painful. And you look at all people around the streets going paranoid and talking to themselves. That's anger gone mad. When you just can't stop the thoughts. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:26 Highlight the passage at 1:16:26

1:16:46 And that's the big tragedy. And part of the suffering here in our culture is that we don't even know you can change your thoughts. So we have to give ourselves pills. We don't have methods in our culture. I swear to you, it has to be true because, look, no one tells us these things, that we can learn to focus the mind, that we can learn to calm the mind, we can learn to listen. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:46 Highlight the passage at 1:16:46

1:17:06 Now more and more people are doing it. They're seeing it. People are doing research in Stanford and all over the place on brains of people. Now we're seeing it a bit. But it's been around for thousands of years. But we just don't know how to apply it because we're so fixated about the mind being your brain and the chemicals, you know. So that's why we give all these poor little kids who've got AD, AD and this and age something else, give them all these pills now because no one knows how to help them calm their energies, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:06 Highlight the passage at 1:17:06

1:17:30 It's just so tragic, our understanding in the West. It's just heartbreaking actually. So then, okay, one of the characteristics of the delusions is that they're compulsive. We're all... What do they say? Obsessive-compulsive, compulsive-assessive, you name it. We're all bipolar. We're all A-D-I-D. We're all these, all these. It's just a question of degree and I'm really not kidding, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:30 Highlight the passage at 1:17:30

1:17:49 That's one of their characteristics. They're out of control. They can't stop. Then they have a different flavour. Attachments like delicious and yucky and gooey, you know. Aversion is kind of hostile and fearful and freaked out. Jealousy, we know all about that one. Pride is something else. Low self-esteem, depression. They've all got their flavour, but they have this one characteristic of being berserk, out of control, running like 100 miles an hour. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:49 Highlight the passage at 1:17:49

1:18:11 You understand? They all are uncontrollable. That's the pain of them. But they've all got their own taste, you know. Each one, jealous one, anger one, depression one, low self-esteem one, depending on which one it is, you know. So we get all this, don't we? We hear it, we feel it. So the root one of these, the one that's the root that's assumed in all of these but is so primordial we don't see its voice. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:11 Highlight the passage at 1:18:11

1:18:36 You get my point? It's the voice behind all the other voices. That's the one that's simply called ignorance. Mahrigpa, unawareness. And this is where it's a nice colloquial phrase for it, ego grasping. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:36 Highlight the passage at 1:18:36

1:18:49 Panic-stricken gripping. We don't notice it until you're threatened. So that's when, if panic arises, that's the symptom of the ego grasping being very strong. It's sort of like you're driving along the freeway thinking everything's cool and then suddenly a car comes running in front of you. The heart beats, you freak out, the panic comes. That's the rising, that's the sign of the ego grasping. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:49 Highlight the passage at 1:18:49

1:19:12 It was like a sleeping lion until it got attacked. You understand? You don't know you're attached until you don't get it. So you didn't realise. They're subtle. They're there all the time. But they're assumed. They're deeply assumed in our mind. You get my point? So the ego grasping, the deepest behind attachment. In other words, attachment is the main voice of ego grasping. If you didn't have ego grasping, you wouldn't have attachment. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:12 Highlight the passage at 1:19:12

1:19:35 Anger is the main response to when attachment doesn't get what it wants. They've kind of got this layered relationship, you know? If you didn't have anger, you wouldn't have jealousy. If you didn't have attachment, you wouldn't have anger. If you didn't have ego grasping, you wouldn't have attachment. They've got this relationship. They're like little branches of the root. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:35 Highlight the passage at 1:19:35

1:19:54 So the only time we notice ego grasping, this ignorance, the primordial one, the sense of a self, is when it's threatened. And the more deeply we look into our minds, the more we will see that it's there all the time. And even the deepest symptom... of this ego grasping, and this sounds really comical to us, is this absolute belief of a separate self. We all sort of go, excuse me, of course I'm a separate self. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:54 Highlight the passage at 1:19:54

1:20:22 What do you think, I'm going to merge with Keith or something? Become oneness with Keith? It seems so ridiculous, two bodies merging, you know. Can't work that out. Whose is going to have whose leg? I mean, it's sort of dumb for us, you know, because we're so rigid, our sense of a separate Keith and Robina. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:22 Highlight the passage at 1:20:22

1:20:37 But we get the idea of... A connectedness, when we're close to somebody, and much of it can be to do with attachment as well, when there's a sense of being oneness with a person. That's the function of the virtues. So if you can imagine the end result of this progress when you've completely done the job, it would be that you would have such a sense of as if there were no separate sense of a self, that your I would be as big as the universe, your I would be absolutely merged, have a sense of empathy so total with every other being, it's as if they're you. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:37 Highlight the passage at 1:20:37

1:21:08 If you can try and even conceptualize that, you understand what I'm saying? It sounds a bit abstract to us, but it's a very real psychological state that Buddha's talking about, okay? So it's because of this ego grasping, and the Buddha would say over eons of time, but forget all that one, that we have this vivid sense of a separate I. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:08 Highlight the passage at 1:21:08

1:21:26 So a good, simple little way of describing... How this functions and how attachment, anger, pride, jealousy and all the rest are the voices of this one is if, and I use this example often, Keith and I are having a little chat let's say and he's listening to my jokes and I'm laughing at his jokes and he listens to me and I listen to him and we're just being nice and friendly to each other. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:26 Highlight the passage at 1:21:26

1:21:45 We all have relationships like that for a moment you know. So you could say in that time that our virtuous states are more prevalent. So look at the consequences of that. I see him more clearly. He sees me. There's no vivid sense of I'm listening to Keith. You get my point here? There's no vivid sense of he's listening to me. We're just sort of merged in a very conventional sense as a sense of interdependence. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:45 Highlight the passage at 1:21:45

1:22:09 Wouldn't you agree? And that's conveyed as a sense of harmony between us. You get my point? So you could say that there is a sense of interdependence. Buddha would say everything is in fact interdependent. Things are interdependent. So there's a sense of that when virtuous states of mind are more prevalent than the non-virtues. You with me? And you could say that's really what wisdom is, is a sense of connectedness. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:09 Highlight the passage at 1:22:09

1:22:32 And that's Anna's point about compassion. When you have that sense of connectedness, there's also empathy there. And that sense of connectedness allows empathy. You with me? And that's when things are working nicely, things are harmonious, there's pleasure, I enjoy him, I'm sympathetic with his problems, we're patient with each other and that's what we all want, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:22:32 Highlight the passage at 1:22:32

1:22:51 Now, let's see what happens when he starts arguing with me, when he says something I don't like. All of a sudden, this sense of we is cut in half. There's me and there's him. You get my point here. Suddenly the panic rises. I did not say that. My eyes are wide and he suddenly looks mean and unkind. I feel all lonely and separate and cut off and he's way over there. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:51 Highlight the passage at 1:22:51

1:23:11 You get my point here. That's now the beginning of the negative states of mind ripening, coming up to the surface. And that brings the sense of I panicking, a separate I, isn't it? Vivid. There's no... I mean, my friend on the phone, when he talked, it was... And this is the point about when you're really suffering, which is ego. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:11 Highlight the passage at 1:23:11

1:23:29 Which is ego grasping. It was as if he is utterly, profoundly, isolatedly alone in this universe. And everything he talked about, it was like a weapon in his heart. Everything he saw, every person he saw on the street, everything he sees in shops, everything for him is like something that hurts him. Because he's so intensely suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:29 Highlight the passage at 1:23:29

1:23:50 That's how delusions function. And that's the... Primordial ego grasping. For him it's like every second tangible. His voice was shaking with it every second. It's like I was there all the time. The vivid sense of ego grasping was there all the time. You with me? So he felt absolutely isolated, full of anger, jealousy, pain, loathing. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:50 Highlight the passage at 1:23:50

1:24:11 The suffering was stupendous. He said to me, I am in hell every second. You hearing me? That's when ego grasping is very strong. When people have constant panic attacks. Ego is really strong. It's like you're on the edge of a cliff every second. You're about to fall over in your state of panic. There's a vividest sense of I there that can see nothing else. You with me? Report an error in the passage at 1:24:11 Highlight the passage at 1:24:11

1:24:30 That's the voice of all the delusions, in particular the root one, the ego grasping. So the point that Buddha's making is so simple, it's like a joke. He says that that belief that you're isolated, separate, angry, deluded, hopeless, nothing, nobody is a great, big, fat lie. It just is not reality. But we believe it's reality. Do you see my point? And so to conquer that ego grasping is the deepest one of all. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:30 Highlight the passage at 1:24:30

1:25:00 To see the lack of that fantasy, to see the absence of it, to see the emptiness of it as they talk, that's when you've got realizations. That's when you've achieved nirvāṇa. That's when you're liberated. All those words they use in Buddhist psychology. So it's quite primordial. But we can see its presence every day in our lives, you know. Do you see? So does that explain a bit? Report an error in the passage at 1:25:00 Highlight the passage at 1:25:00

1:25:20 Okay, it's lunch I think. I think it's lunchtime, folks. I think Chloe's out there cooking our lunch. Do you want to check up Anna if she thinks lunch is ready? Tell us. So all this is is really just describing and trying to describe in a casual, experiential way the way the mind functions. And this is using, of course, Buddhist psychology. I'm not using Jung. He might agree with some of these points, but I'm using specifically the Buddhist approach. You understand my point? And that's where it's up to us if we're using these interpretations, you know, for ourselves. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:20 Highlight the passage at 1:25:20

1:25:55 Yeah, go on. Sure, darling. How would you advise your friend then in that situation? Because his suffering was so intense. He was so frantic. He hasn't seen me for 20 years, but he got my number, you know. And what's he saying? Okay, darling, good. The thing was, what I could hear was the suffering was so enormous, the fear so primordial. Report an error in the passage at 1:25:55 Highlight the passage at 1:25:55

1:26:19 There was like literally nothing. There was literally nothing. I could advise him to do. I was thinking all the time as I'm talking to him, trying to find a doorway into what, you know, because what the person says gives you the doorway into what to say back, isn't it? And I mean, it was his, and I know him from 20 years ago. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:19 Highlight the passage at 1:26:19

1:26:38 He was like this, but not as bad. There was nothing, there's nothing except just listen. Yes, I understand, sweetheart. Yes, I'm hearing what you're saying. Yes, I do understand. So then every now and again, I'd say to him, what do you think you should do? There's no point in me saying a word. What do you think you should do? Report an error in the passage at 1:26:38 Highlight the passage at 1:26:38

1:26:54 All I could do is get him to try and ask himself that question, but he can't see any option, not even a millimetre, not even to walk out the door and go shopping. He can't even see that much. So there's no point in giving him a lecture about it. It's really your own mind. There's no point in saying she's really not like that. There's no point in saying, you know, try and see the good part of her. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:54 Highlight the passage at 1:26:54

1:27:11 There's no point in saying, why don't you leave him and get a divorce? There's no point. Because he can't see the possibility of it. So all I could do is hear him and listen to him. But then because he's so frantic, he kept saying... Please tell me what to do. I need someone. Can I come and live with you? I've got enough money. I'll get a ticket and you can tell me what to do every day and I'll do it. You understand? Report an error in the passage at 1:27:11 Highlight the passage at 1:27:11

1:27:31 Because he doesn't know. He's shaking. His voice is shaking with fear and tears coming every minute. He doesn't know what to do. But I know that, you know, but that's because he's so he's thinking. If only he'd come, then I could tell him what to do. He says, tell me what to do. Tell me what to do. But I know there's no benefit. I actually said several things, but he couldn't hear. So there's nothing I can do. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:31 Highlight the passage at 1:27:31

1:27:52 There's nothing. There is no answer except listen to him and tell him I love him. There's nothing. Honestly. Because what you can do, tell a person, this is the thing about having wisdom, compassion based on wisdom, is to know what a person can hear. See, he went to one of the lamas. He goes to all these people. He wrote to Lama Zopa. He's been to the lama in London. He's been to this person. He's been to that person. Lama Zopa wrote him a five-page letter. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:52 Highlight the passage at 1:27:52

1:28:19 He's been to the Lama, you know, in London. I said, what did he tell you? He said, the Lama said, oh, well, that's just the way things are. But it's true, that's all you can say to him because he couldn't hear anything else. It is the way things are. This is where you can feel you just, the more ego comes, the more tight, the more small, the more miniature, the more isolated until you literally just want to disappear, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:19 Highlight the passage at 1:28:19

1:28:39 It's so terrifying. And this is ordinary, daily suffering. It's just a question of degree. We all feel this to some extent sometimes, but then we see the light at the end of the tunnel every now and again, luckily, hopefully. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:39 Highlight the passage at 1:28:39

1:28:52 You know, he's been on drugs, he's been a psychiatrist, but everything is like a nightmare to him. He said, I don't want to go to all these revolting places, these evil doctors, these horrible nurses, these dreadful counselors, this ugly place and isolated in a little room on my own. I can't stand. Everything was grotesque for him. Every word he uttered was this nightmarish picture. You understand? Report an error in the passage at 1:28:52 Highlight the passage at 1:28:52

1:29:12 What can you do? I can just listen. I just sat there and I just listened. I understand, sweetheart. I understand. Yes, I understand. Yes, I understand. Yes, yes, yes, I understand. There's nothing else I can say. Tell me what to do. But I say it in the next quick second in an argument. I might say one thing, then he argues with it because the concrete view of it is so absolute, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:12 Highlight the passage at 1:29:12

1:29:33 And this is what, I'm not saying I have much wisdom. I don't have much wisdom, but when you try to analyse what's in front of you at that second and you look at the situation, whether it's the cake or whatever, you have to look at the situation and then that'll tell you what you can do. Sometimes there is nothing to do. We wish the war in Iraq would go away. Well, excuse me, that's great, but now see what you can do. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:33 Highlight the passage at 1:29:33

1:29:57 You might as well say there's almost nothing. Because it's so caught up in the fight. They're like, he's in his own war, you know, they're in their war, so caught up. Even you go to two people who are fighting, please stop fighting. They'll tell you, mind your own business, they'll keep on fighting. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:57 Highlight the passage at 1:29:57

1:30:09 You understand my point? Because that's the thing about, that's where the karmic one comes in, which is another whole discussion. How come we're in the midst of that chaos now? And when that's so strong, there's like nothing you can do to make it all go away. And of course, we want it to all go away. That's our frantic fear, you know. We wish it would all go away. So when it is our own life. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:09 Highlight the passage at 1:30:09

1:30:29 Sometimes when this stuff's happening, the best we can do is learn to like it. And that's the advanced one again. I can't tell him that. No way. Not possible. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:29 Highlight the passage at 1:30:29

1:30:41 Talk about suffering. We all recognize it. It's just a question of degree is the real point. Not thinking, oh, I'm sane and he's evil. You know, we think that, but it's just a question of degree. That's the real point the Buddha's making. We think we're normal and then he's abnormal. But he just says, don't be so arrogant. It's just a question of degree. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:41 Highlight the passage at 1:30:41

1:30:56 Because every one of those things I've said about him, we recognize every piece of that, every single piece, because the disease we have is the same. And that's what's interesting about Buddhist psychology, it refers to animals too. There's this spectrum of intensity of delusions. Buddhist psychology refers to all living beings. The same model is identical. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:56 Highlight the passage at 1:30:56

1:31:14 Ignorance, attachment, anger, pride, jealousy and all the rest. It's the exact same model of the mind. There is no difference. Buddha puts them in the same, it's just a spectrum, you know. Which is a very interesting take on it because we don't think like that in the West or in Christian teachings for that matter. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:14 Highlight the passage at 1:31:14

1:31:32 So food for thought. So I think you're going to have some food for your mouth and have some food for thought as well and get yourselves into little discussion groups, three or four or all together as you wish. There's only a few of you. So just really have your lunch, relax, enjoy, but then grab hold of one or two of these points and sort of go with it, run with it. Get questions and stuff and just look into it. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:32 Highlight the passage at 1:31:32

1:31:52 Or be quiet as you wish. Your call. Yes? So then I'll see you in a, I don't know, see how it goes, see how an hour goes, maybe we can make a bit earlier. See how an hour goes, yeah? Thank you, Dearest, very much. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:52 Highlight the passage at 1:31:52

· · · silence, 74 minutes

2:45:41 visualize how much I'm this in how much I'm coming Report an error in the passage at 2:45:41 Highlight the passage at 2:45:41

2:45:48 you have your statue, whatever, chant, this is one way to visualize our struggle of Report an error in the passage at 2:45:48 Highlight the passage at 2:45:48

2:46:15 the magic wand is blue like Report an error in the passage at 2:46:15 Highlight the passage at 2:46:15

2:46:24 the rest of us three lines. Report an error in the passage at 2:46:24 Highlight the passage at 2:46:24

2:46:32 a jokufa in front of you or you bring that. If you visualize the body, the light, the light, red light, white light, and blue, Report an error in the passage at 2:46:32 Highlight the passage at 2:46:32

2:46:49 you can just chant it, Report an error in the passage at 2:46:49 Highlight the passage at 2:46:49

2:47:09 wisdom, white, usually you will see always Ong Aho, it's white, red, blue, so for this, usually we say Report an error in the passage at 2:47:09 Highlight the passage at 2:47:09

2:47:25 white light and the power of blue light. Report an error in the passage at 2:47:25 Highlight the passage at 2:47:25

2:47:33 Yeah, it's quite easy, otherwise you have to visualize Shrawa and Report an error in the passage at 2:47:33 Highlight the passage at 2:47:33

2:47:41 a red light come out and say, Report an error in the passage at 2:47:41 Highlight the passage at 2:47:41

2:47:52 We need a three. So all the Report an error in the passage at 2:47:52 Highlight the passage at 2:47:52

2:48:04 away, but you feel too complicated. Report an error in the passage at 2:48:04 Highlight the passage at 2:48:04

· · · silence, 3 minutes

2:50:47 So move around so I can see you. I'm telling you to move around so I can see you. Move over or something. It'll be good to see everybody. That's it. That's better. Now I can't see her, so you can move that one. Go to the next one. It's good to see everybody's faces. Okay. That's it. People have gone home. Any more people coming? That's it, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 2:50:47 Highlight the passage at 2:50:47

2:51:10 Okay. So come on, talk about your questions then. Things you discussed. Things you discussed during lunch. Things that help clarify or whatever. Report an error in the passage at 2:51:10 Highlight the passage at 2:51:10

2:51:21 Where's Keith? Is he around? Yes. He's coming, okay. Go on. And what did you discuss during lunch? Anything? Any questions come out of it? Yes, go. Janet. What I was talking about was the frustration I feel with myself trying to put into practice. What you've been talking about and then at the end of the day feeling as if I come up short. Knowing that that too is not great. That's one of our strongest ones. Report an error in the passage at 2:51:21 Highlight the passage at 2:51:21

2:51:54 It's sort of like we're addicted to this I think. And that again is the irony of ego. It's always this critical voice. Because the general voice of ego is... Whether we're the object or whether someone else is the object, it's always dissatisfaction. It's always finding fault. It's always falling short. It's never enough. It's why we're always disappointed with other people. Report an error in the passage at 2:51:54 Highlight the passage at 2:51:54

2:52:14 They're always falling short. Always find fault. We don't trust them. It's just a reflection of our own very view of ourselves. And this is the real irony of what ego means. And we can start to understand that. Then the point is, again, to recognise the very simple truth, Janet, that that picture you're basically drawing of yourself... Report an error in the passage at 2:52:14 Highlight the passage at 2:52:14

2:52:35 is not an accurate picture. I mean, it sort of sounds very simple words to say it. It sounds simple, like as if you said there are three cups here and there's only one. You can see the mistake quite quickly. We can hear these words, that is a mistaken picture, but we don't believe it. You get my point? We really do believe the bad picture. It's sort of like we're so used to seeing three cups. Report an error in the passage at 2:52:35 Highlight the passage at 2:52:35

2:52:53 Even though we hear there's only one, we really do see three and we think there are three. So even though we hear that that unhappy voice that is an assessment of yourself isn't a correct picture. Are you hearing the simple point I'm making? So then if it's not the correct picture, you've got to keep telling yourself the right picture. So what's the right picture? It's a more balanced one. Report an error in the passage at 2:52:53 Highlight the passage at 2:52:53

2:53:12 You have got good qualities. You are making an effort. You are trying to be a better person. Would you agree with this? Now if you're going to pair yourself with multi-murderers and maniacs and confused like my poor friend on the phone, would you agree that you don't seem to be as suffering as that? Report an error in the passage at 2:53:12 Highlight the passage at 2:53:12

2:53:25 Would you agree that you're not harming as many people as a multi-murderer? Now that's a fact, isn't it? Isn't that something to feel good about? But we don't think like this because the automatic voice, it runs like a magnet. Bad, bad, bad. It's kind of the awful, absurd irony of ego. So, honey, we have to learn to argue with it. But don't expect to believe it overnight. You've just got to keep... It's like cognitive therapy. Report an error in the passage at 2:53:25 Highlight the passage at 2:53:25

2:53:50 It really is. Slowly learning to get a balanced, correct view of ourself and slowly building it up. I'm really not kidding. It almost seems too simple. But it really is what it is, you know, this is the fundamental one. And then slowly what happens is inevitable. If you know, if you keep practicing riding a bike every day, eventually there'll come a point where riding it is stronger than not riding. Report an error in the passage at 2:53:50 Highlight the passage at 2:53:50

2:54:13 You get my point? There'll be a point, there'll be a tipping point. Same with this. Right now the status quo is I'm no good, I'm hopeless, I'm bad, I'm this, I'm blah, blah, blah. If you keep changing it every day, there'll be a tipping point. At some point you'll start to believe the better one and that's the beginning of the progress. Report an error in the passage at 2:54:13 Highlight the passage at 2:54:13

2:54:29 You understand? I mean, really, it is like this. So again, my point, I forgot your name, darling. I completely went. Gina. Gina. I was just writing about something else. Gemma. And I kept thinking Gemma. No, it's not Gemma. Gina. It's too close. That's right. You have to move again. So Gina, you know, it's like you just got to keep learning to live with this unhappy one. Report an error in the passage at 2:54:29 Highlight the passage at 2:54:29

2:54:52 You know, every time you fall off the bike, instead of, oh, I'm hopeless, I'm no good. I'm hopeless, I'm no good. You say, I made an effort. I'm going to get back on again. That's the point. Accepting the fact that you can't ride a bike, but you know what, I've got the potential. Rather than, oh my God, look at me, I just proved I'm hopeless, I couldn't ride a bike. Look, I fell off, I told you I was hopeless. Report an error in the passage at 2:54:52 Highlight the passage at 2:54:52

2:55:10 You understand? And it's just got to keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. Slowly the tipping point and then you just keep progressing. It really is just like that. One day at a time, which means we've got to learn to live with the fact that we're not very good at it. And that's the problem. Report an error in the passage at 2:55:10 Highlight the passage at 2:55:10

2:55:28 Because we always think it should be better. So it's sort of like we're going from here to grade 12. And no matter what grade we get to, we're always dissatisfied. Because attachment thinks, when I'm there, then I'll feel better. When I have a new fridge, then I'll be better. So in our spiritual practice we go, when I'm less angry, then I'll be better. No, you've got to start being better now, warts and all. Report an error in the passage at 2:55:28 Highlight the passage at 2:55:28

2:55:51 Honestly, it's like you've got to trick yourself. Truly. Now the fact is, if you're not making an effort, then you're not getting better. Don't lie to yourself. But if you are making an effort, you've got to acknowledge that and it's extremely important to do this. I cannot stress this enough. Ego loves to be miserable. Report an error in the passage at 2:55:51 Highlight the passage at 2:55:51

2:56:09 You understand? We have to really have the courage to... They call it in Tibetan, they call it rejoicing. It sounds so kind of holy. Oh, you've got to rejoice. It sounds a bit hysterical, you know? It means find the good qualities and state them. Just like she has to do with her Mary, you know? Even one. Okay, listen. She's got a nice nose. Report an error in the passage at 2:56:09 Highlight the passage at 2:56:09

2:56:28 I'll give her that much. I mean, honestly, start something real humble and small. Okay, come on, you know, Janet, you did this and you are lazy and this and this, but I am making an effort. I'm doing my best here. It kind of like soothes, you know, because the voice of the negativity, the voice of the delusions is in its nature negative. Report an error in the passage at 2:56:28 Highlight the passage at 2:56:28

2:56:48 Negative. It's just so intense, you know. You've got to stop it. But you've got to learn to live with the fact that you've got it. The fact that you've got it every day is okay. It's going to be a while before it goes. So in other words we have to start like enjoying the process. You understand my point? And that really is you can see its view you know. Report an error in the passage at 2:56:48 Highlight the passage at 2:56:48

2:57:07 Your garden still looks like chaos but suddenly you now have botany and so you can start to feel hopeful because you can see the end result. You might still be completely miserable and completely no muscles and you know 100 pounds overweight and you want to be thinner. The difference between today and yesterday is that now you have a method and now you're on the case. A reason to rejoice. Do you see what I'm saying? Report an error in the passage at 2:57:07 Highlight the passage at 2:57:07

2:57:28 But the trouble is with attachment, which is neurotic and needy and grasping, it wants to be better right now. And that is just not possible. It's a process. It's a process. Do you understand? And you've got to make the effort because the ego just loves to find fault. So we want other people to praise us all the time. But the irony there is too, like with my friend, I could tell him every second good things about himself. Report an error in the passage at 2:57:28 Highlight the passage at 2:57:28

2:57:58 I could praise him every second. He is literally incapable of hearing it. Literally. Does not believe a single word. Only believes the bad. So you've got to really have the courage to believe the good. Because it's true. Don't exaggerate your good. That's rubbish too. Do you understand? Low self-esteem exaggerates the bad. Report an error in the passage at 2:57:58 Highlight the passage at 2:57:58

2:58:17 Arrogance exaggerates the good. And we're swinging between these two. We've got to be realistic. Praise our effort. Even if it's a tiny millimetre of effort, praise it. Give yourself courage. I swear to you this is a major practice. I'm not kidding. And you can see with our really low, there's this suffering of our low self-esteem, which is a function of this real profound dissatisfaction, this profound detachment. Report an error in the passage at 2:58:17 Highlight the passage at 2:58:17

2:58:38 It's a function of it. It's our worst disease in this culture. I remember His Holiness said, that's a mental illness. Report an error in the passage at 2:58:38 Highlight the passage at 2:58:38

2:58:48 What else did you discuss during lunch? Go, darling. Report an error in the passage at 2:58:48 Highlight the passage at 2:58:48

2:59:05 Related to what you just said, Report an error in the passage at 2:59:05 Highlight the passage at 2:59:05

2:59:10 I spend my whole life based on self-doubt. Like you mentioned earlier, you know, when you go to your mommy and mommy says, it's okay. That's right. I never had that. No one's ever nourished you, no one's ever nurtured you, no one's ever been kind to you, ever, in your life that you can remember. I don't believe it. You'd be a mental wreck if you didn't have any of it. No, not in the sense that giving some basis to, it's okay, this is okay. Report an error in the passage at 2:59:10 Highlight the passage at 2:59:10

2:59:39 So no one's ever praised you? No. Not ever. Since you're born. Now wait a minute, be careful here. You've never had any kindness in your life, ever, from anybody. Mother, father, sister, auntie, teacher, friend, ever. Never had encouragement. No, in different ways. You know, like my parents, they thought that the way to show love is just to provide food and, you know, like provide everything for us to grow, but not necessarily. Report an error in the passage at 2:59:39 Highlight the passage at 2:59:39

3:00:06 necessarily the word or the emotional support. They never said a good word to you. Ever. I want you to be accurate now. I'm not trying to say you're a liar. I just want you to be accurate. They've never showed you affection. Never said good words. Never encouraged you. Never said things are okay when you came crying. Ever. In your life. Ever. You know, I try to remember and I can't remember. Report an error in the passage at 3:00:06 Highlight the passage at 3:00:06

3:00:28 I've gone through that exercise. They never smiled at you. Never. Never said nothing. Not when I was a kid. Now they have changed. They have noticed that they didn't show that. Report an error in the passage at 3:00:28 Highlight the passage at 3:00:28

3:00:45 Well, it's not where I was trying to get. No, I know that, but you said it so I couldn't get past there. I'm sorry. Right, right, right. Because you said it so definitively. I never got any of that you said, which sounds like quite a shocking statement to make. So I need it to be really clear. And you seem quite convinced that they never gave you any emotional support. That's what you're saying. Right. You really can say that truthfully. Report an error in the passage at 3:00:45 Highlight the passage at 3:00:45

3:01:05 Well, you've done pretty well in your life, if that's the case. You've done very amazingly, and I really admire you, that you've had such cold, unemotional parents. Now, I'm being a bit sarcastic now. Yeah, I know. Because I think you've got a view that isn't accurate. Yes, I agree with that. Definitely not accurate. Report an error in the passage at 3:01:05 Highlight the passage at 3:01:05

3:01:22 It's an experience that a child had. Now it's your memory now. That's the experience that I had as a child, and I tried to remember of good things. And somehow they never come up. Why do they only come up the things of never being nurtured in that level? You know, nothing was missing ever, you know, as far as food, comfort. Report an error in the passage at 3:01:22 Highlight the passage at 3:01:22

3:01:47 Okay, so this is where you have to... So what was your question anyway? Well, my question was going to, you know, when the self-doubt part that up to this day, I still don't know if I'm doing something. Should I be doing this? Should I be doing that? You know, it's just like... The constant self-doubt thing that, you know, there was never, you know, maybe there's a point where when you grow up, your parents give you, like, maybe the thing of, oh, you're doing okay, or you're doing some kind of assertion that you're doing the right thing. So what you're telling me is you never got that? Your teachers never told you this? Report an error in the passage at 3:01:47 Highlight the passage at 3:01:47

3:02:35 Your friends never told you this. You never got feedback from teachers. You never got marks in your exam to show that you were doing well. You never got praise in anything you achieved. I don't think you've got a very accurate picture of your life. It sounds quite mentally ill to me, I'm saying to you. You look to me quite reasonably healthy mentally. But it seems to me, like a lot of us, you've got a very distorted memory. Report an error in the passage at 3:02:35 Highlight the passage at 3:02:35

3:02:56 You've remembered only the bad things. Your own neediness, your own... This is one way of interpreting, okay? That your own... This enormous dissatisfaction, which is attachment, interprets never getting enough. That's what I'm hearing. One approach to it is this. You might be right. Your parents might be, as you're suggesting, cold, unemotional people. They might be this. Your view might be correct. Report an error in the passage at 3:02:56 Highlight the passage at 3:02:56

3:03:23 But I think what I'm hearing more than anything is your own bottomless pit of bottomless neediness, hunger to be loved and approved of that no matter what they gave you, you never saw it as enough. That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm hearing. I mean, it's just a suggestion to you to think about it at that point of view, that you've never seen encouragement even when it was there. Report an error in the passage at 3:03:23 Highlight the passage at 3:03:23

3:03:45 You've never seen kindness. It might be some partial truth in it, but this can't be the total truth. I'm just suggesting this to open it up to you. In other words, you to look from your side to see that your own dissatisfaction, which is a function of attachment, is to always be dissatisfied with what we get, always thinking we should be getting more. Report an error in the passage at 3:03:45 Highlight the passage at 3:03:45

3:04:06 Is that completely different from self-doubt? Self-doubt is another discussion, but I'm talking about the first one. So self-doubt means not having enough wisdom, enough confidence, enough basis for making decisions and not having enough confidence to... Take responsibility for your own actions. Right. That's what self-doubt is. So you mean all the choices you've made in your life, you're never sure if you did the right thing. Report an error in the passage at 3:04:06 Highlight the passage at 3:04:06

3:04:31 Never sure. The choices you've made, the friends you've had, the relationships you've had, the jobs you've had, the things you've studied, you've never had enough. No, I think after a while I do think, yeah, that was a good decision. But at the moment it's like, am I doing the right thing right now? And how do you decide if you are? Report an error in the passage at 3:04:31 Highlight the passage at 3:04:31

3:04:48 What basis do you need? From now on, let's say, what do you think is the basis for you to have confidence that the decision you make is the right one? What do you think you need to do to make that happen? I don't know. You don't know? No idea? Not even a clue? Okay, if you are going to cook a cake, let me ask you an ordinary question. Report an error in the passage at 3:04:48 Highlight the passage at 3:04:48

3:05:07 If you're going to make a cake... What would make you confident that you're going to make a good cake? What would you need in place to give you the confidence that you're making a good cake? What would you need? The ingredients? No, but what would you need to make you determine a good recipe? But you have to have confidence that it's the right recipe, don't you? Right. So what would you need to do to do that? Report an error in the passage at 3:05:07 Highlight the passage at 3:05:07

3:05:26 What would you need to do to be confident? Report an error in the passage at 3:05:26 Highlight the passage at 3:05:26

3:05:31 What would you need to do to be confident? What would you need to do to be confident? Bake the cake. What would you need to do to be confident that you're on the right track? Report an error in the passage at 3:05:31 Highlight the passage at 3:05:31

3:05:43 What would you need to do to be confident to pursue that to make that cake? Try it out. No, that's stupid. You don't just leap in and make any old choice with no basis and then see if it's going to work. That's kind of dumb. What do you need to do to check up that you've made a right decision in anything? Report an error in the passage at 3:05:43 Highlight the passage at 3:05:43

3:06:05 I have no idea. If you want to drive to Santa Rosa, before you try it out and end up in Paris, what would you do before you start moving to be confident you're on the right track? Report an error in the passage at 3:06:05 Highlight the passage at 3:06:05

3:06:17 What would you need to do? This is not a trick question, sweetheart. It's a practical one. It's all practical, what we're talking about. What would you need to do to make a decision? Once you've decided you want to go to Santa Rosa, once you've decided you want to go and have that boyfriend, once you've decided you want to make that cake, what would you have to have done beforehand that makes you feel great, this is the next good step? Report an error in the passage at 3:06:17 Highlight the passage at 3:06:17

3:06:41 What would you need to do to give yourself a basis for confidence, sweetheart? You don't know. You're going to think about it, aren't you? I'm not going to give you an easy answer. I'm not going to spoon feed you. Okay. Report an error in the passage at 3:06:41 Highlight the passage at 3:06:41

3:07:05 So up until now in your life, you've made choices, jobs, you have relationships with people, you fall in love sometimes, you have friends, yeah, jobs, and you're never confident that you've made the right choice? Report an error in the passage at 3:07:05 Highlight the passage at 3:07:05

3:07:27 You're confident sometimes you've made the right decision? Coming to this class, is that a good decision? You're confident that you've made the right decision or you're doubting? Okay, well then. Report an error in the passage at 3:07:27 Highlight the passage at 3:07:27

3:07:39 You don't always have self-doubt, do you? Self-doubt means what for you? How would you use this term? What do you mean by it, sweetheart? What do you mean by it? Report an error in the passage at 3:07:39 Highlight the passage at 3:07:39

3:07:55 What do you mean by self-doubt? No, no, but you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be right. Just say anything. Let it out. It's okay. It's just a discussion, you know. I'm not trying to prove you to be right or wrong. What do you mean? You use the word self-doubt. Report an error in the passage at 3:07:55 Highlight the passage at 3:07:55

3:08:12 In what areas of your life would you mean it? Report an error in the passage at 3:08:12 Highlight the passage at 3:08:12

3:08:18 In relation to what? The nature of the moon, a cake, a boyfriend. What? In relation to what, sweetheart? Be specific. Bring it down to earth. Make it practical. Make it ordinary. Report an error in the passage at 3:08:18 Highlight the passage at 3:08:18

3:08:38 What do you mean? What does self-doubt feel like? What does it feel like, this thing you're talking about? Report an error in the passage at 3:08:38 Highlight the passage at 3:08:38

3:08:47 All right. That's a good point. Do that. Report an error in the passage at 3:08:47 Highlight the passage at 3:08:47

3:08:57 Talk about it in a minute. Or maybe use other words for it. Just other words, you know, maybe another. Are any of the things I've been saying to Gina and Janet made any sense? You heard those? Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 3:08:57 Highlight the passage at 3:08:57

3:09:31 This is, I think, a change in subject, but it's somewhat related. Sure, darling, go for it. Because I also have doubts. Lately I was talking about, oh, you know, I think maybe I need to get another job, blah, blah, that kind of thing. Sure. But of course, you know, who knows, maybe I really don't. I think I have some good reasons. But one of the things that I've noticed is that, you know, I work with people. Report an error in the passage at 3:09:31 Highlight the passage at 3:09:31

3:09:54 I'm an attorney, but... I work with people who are HIV positive and most of them are here in this country legally. They don't have documents to be here. They're low income. They don't speak the language. And they got a lot of psychological problems on top of everything else. So sometimes I find that I'm getting very angry at them. Report an error in the passage at 3:09:54 Highlight the passage at 3:09:54

3:10:15 Because why? You're just impatient with them? Yeah, I get impatient, yeah. Because they feel a bit hopeless and unable to achieve anything, that kind of thing. Well, or else sometimes, you know, they're a little bit like your friend, not as extreme, but it's like, you know, they're blaming everybody for everything and it's like, you know, come on. Report an error in the passage at 3:10:15 Highlight the passage at 3:10:15

3:10:32 Exactly, yeah. So anyway, so I find that I get this aversion. And of course, I really don't want to have that. That's right, of course. A feeling. I don't like the feeling. That's right. It's not doing them any good. Yes. Report an error in the passage at 3:10:32 Highlight the passage at 3:10:32

3:10:44 So it's a matter of then of, well, it's a couple of things, but when trying to, I think, build my discriminating awareness, right, that what is the aversion? Is it towards the actual person or is the aversion towards the suffering? No, the only thing is just plain impatience with people. When people aren't doing, you know, you can see that they're really being a bit ridiculous and a bit self-piteous. I mean, join the club here. Report an error in the passage at 3:10:44 Highlight the passage at 3:10:44

3:11:11 And you can see how they really could have potential. You can see how they could do it and feel a bit better about everything. You're just getting a bit annoyed with them. It's understandable. That's almost aversion to the person, to what they're saying. Report an error in the passage at 3:11:11 Highlight the passage at 3:11:11

3:11:21 But I guess sometimes I feel badly because I feel, you know, you're really not being very compassionate. And maybe that's what this... And sometimes a person needs the compassion and sometimes they need... Some confrontation too. Well, confrontation. Now they always need compassion, but sometimes it can be confronting compassion. Sometimes it can be, that's what wise compassion is. Report an error in the passage at 3:11:21 Highlight the passage at 3:11:21

3:11:44 Compassion doesn't always look sweet and cute. Do you see my point? Yeah. So the thing is, compassion is the wish to help, but wisdom is to know how. Right. So I guess that's where, okay, so I have those doubts too. It's like, okay, are you really being compassionate with wisdom? That's what we have to learn to do. We can only be as wise as we can and we can only be as compassionate as we can. We're only in elementary school, aren't we? Report an error in the passage at 3:11:44 Highlight the passage at 3:11:44

3:12:13 So be content with that level of it. And then you keep practicing and you get better at it, don't you? Sure. That's right. So be content with that. But observe your mind every minute. Just observing how your mind is, how you respond to people. You just learn about it. The aversion is right there. A person says a word, you see the behavior, you see it. Report an error in the passage at 3:12:13 Highlight the passage at 3:12:13

3:12:30 You get irritated, you get annoyed. That's reasonable. You understand where they're coming from though because the big thing is, you know, like when I was again speaking to my friend, even though a completely extreme example, the key thing that really makes you patient is to recognize every single thing that he's saying and seeing it in yourself because it's all there. Report an error in the passage at 3:12:30 Highlight the passage at 3:12:30

3:12:46 We've all got them. We're all the same. We're just different shapes, different recipes of the same bits, you know. So never to feel like separate from it, never to feel because that's arrogance. When you recognize it, you know, even if you see grotesque arrogance in somebody, you've got to recognize that arrogance in you and then you feel humbled by it and then you can connect with it and then you understand why they're arrogant and then you have, that's what wisdom is. Report an error in the passage at 3:12:46 Highlight the passage at 3:12:46

3:13:06 It's making you, it's like if you're good at piano and you hear another person playing, you recognize it. You can see where they're coming from. That's what, so that's what brings compassion then, a connection with it. Do you hear what I'm saying? Yeah. So when you hear these people, you remember that because you can see it in yourself. Report an error in the passage at 3:13:06 Highlight the passage at 3:13:06

3:13:21 You've maybe gotten over it, but you can recognize where they're coming from. As soon as you recognize where a person's coming from, you can get some more empathy and more patience. It's when we feel ourselves separate from it that then the impatience comes, you know? Because attachment wants them to do what we want them to do. Right, right, right. So in terms of developing the wisdom, I think you're saying that... Report an error in the passage at 3:13:21 Highlight the passage at 3:13:21

3:13:45 I also have to recognize that what I see, what I'm in them, I have to realize that I've also... That brings a lot of empathy. That brings a lot of patience. It's when you feel separate from it. Like, idiot person, why can't they do this? You're like arrogant. Then it brings impatience and arrogance. Well, I mean, I have that too, right? Report an error in the passage at 3:13:45 Highlight the passage at 3:13:45

3:14:03 I do have that. Well, that's what I'm saying. I do have that arrogance. What? No, but I'm saying that's, I think, maybe trying to get over my own... And arrogance is the challenge that I'm facing when I'm dealing with these. Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's why I'm pointing out. That's why it's there. Because there's not a sense of connectedness with it. And the way to develop that connectedness is... Report an error in the passage at 3:14:03 Highlight the passage at 3:14:03

3:14:24 By recognizing it. That's what wisdom is. There's no delusion, Anna, that we don't have. We mightn't go around raping people. But we mightn't go around lying and stealing and doing really heavy duty things. But once we recognize the basic delusions, they're all a question of degree. There's no delusion we do not have. There can't be. Report an error in the passage at 3:14:24 Highlight the passage at 3:14:24

3:14:43 As soon as we recognize in another person, even if this is a million times heavier than ours, we recognize, oh, that's anger, that's impatience, that's jealousy, that's attachment, that's fear. Okay, I know that one. As soon as you can see it, you've got it too. And if you know the basic principles of Buddhist psychology, you know there's no delusion you haven't got. Report an error in the passage at 3:14:43 Highlight the passage at 3:14:43

3:15:02 Are you hearing me, Anna? Then you can immediately empathize with it. Then straight away there's no separate, therefore you'll be patient. That's what brings patience. That's what wisdom is in a practical sense. Report an error in the passage at 3:15:02 Highlight the passage at 3:15:02

3:15:12 But if you feel like, because attachment is wanting, you know, we're being all kind and all lovey-dovey kind, trying to help all these poor people, and how dare they not do what we want right now? It's sort of really, it's that, you know? I mean, excuse me, you've got to recognise that sometimes you can do nothing. Report an error in the passage at 3:15:12 Highlight the passage at 3:15:12

3:15:30 On his phone for this hour and a half this morning, I was lying there kind of half nodding off to sleep again. He just wanted to talk, you know. I was listening to him, but I realised there is no words. Every second I kept waiting for a doorway, for him to open a door for me to enter into. There wasn't one. Did you get impatient? No, that's my point. Report an error in the passage at 3:15:30 Highlight the passage at 3:15:30

3:15:47 Oh, okay. Even though I sound impatient now, I'm not being. That's my point. So fully accepting what it is that he's saying. Learning it's his. Who am I to think he should be different? How arrogant can I be? That's what arrogance is. It comes from impatience, which comes from attachment. I want. When you just accept where that person is, then they can be Hitler telling you about his problems and it doesn't freak you out. It's okay, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:15:47 Highlight the passage at 3:15:47

3:16:17 Not thinking you've got to force him to change, which is the attachment. Panic of attachment wants it to make it go away. Compassion doesn't want to make it. Passion never gives up. Report an error in the passage at 3:16:17 Highlight the passage at 3:16:17

3:16:26 Compassion empathizes and empathy is based on wisdom. I've got it too. There's nothing in any of these people that is not in you, Anna. We have to see it, that's all. Then we recognize it. So then in terms of my impatience with the clients and also with my job, thinking, oh, maybe I need to change jobs, blah, blah, blah. Report an error in the passage at 3:16:26 Highlight the passage at 3:16:26

3:16:47 But I think Venerable Chucky said something that I thought was very helpful. And she was saying, you know, sometimes I think I'm sitting in this way when she's... her students she says i think i'm sitting with you guys are all bodhisattvas and you're just trying to help me become enlightened so in a way i was thinking well maybe i should develop that attitude So one of them, yes, is that. Report an error in the passage at 3:16:47 Highlight the passage at 3:16:47

3:17:23 One is that. One is that. One is everybody in the universe is a Buddha manifesting ugliness and manifesting anger and manifesting being a rapist and manifesting being a murderer and a crazy guy for my benefit. It's a very specific approach. It's extremely humbling. Another approach is you're coming from the side of, you know, being the mother. Report an error in the passage at 3:17:23 Highlight the passage at 3:17:23

3:17:42 There's just a million different approaches according to what your mind needs at any given moment. We apply them. We've got this toolkit of millions of techniques and the techniques are mental attitudes. We apply at any given moment with skill. Report an error in the passage at 3:17:42 Highlight the passage at 3:17:42

3:17:56 So those things have helped. Yes. You know, and sometimes it might be that, oh, God, I dread picking up that phone because who knows what this client is coming with, right? Yeah. But then I thought, you know, that could be Lama Zopa calling me. That's right. So keep trucking. Sounds good to me. And maybe you do need a new job. Check that out too. Maybe you do. So, Lange, she's a lawyer. Report an error in the passage at 3:17:56 Highlight the passage at 3:17:56

3:18:26 You can ask her advice, okay? Later. Okay, you heard it. Okay, she needs advice, all right? Clear, focused advice. Later on she needs. Be very brief and skillful with her, please. Anybody have any? Have you got any more thoughts? No, darling? Just listen. Good, sweetie. Go, Keith. I have one question. It really troubles me every week, two or three times a week. It troubles you two or three times a week? Yeah. Okay. Two or three times a week it troubles you. Report an error in the passage at 3:18:26 Highlight the passage at 3:18:26

3:18:54 It relates to the man that you talked to this morning. It relates to what? It relates to the man that you talked with this morning in terms of his condition. Oh, yeah. Is that I come in front of somebody. And they don't really want to live anymore. He works in prison. He works as a social worker. I've gone as far as wrestling a gun out of a man's hand, which is really stupid. Report an error in the passage at 3:18:54 Highlight the passage at 3:18:54

3:19:14 I was really stupid. To really feel like I don't want to do anything. Who? Me. What do you mean? When somebody wants to kill themselves because of their horrible situation. Explain that feeling that arises. What is his attitude? Speak it. What does it say? Well, the first thing that happens is they don't know what to do. The first thing that happens is they don't know what to do. He doesn't want to live anymore. Report an error in the passage at 3:19:14 Highlight the passage at 3:19:14

3:19:33 Yeah, then. None of it makes sense to me. None of it really makes sense to me. Wait a minute. What do you mean by that? It doesn't make sense to you? As to really how to act. Sorry, what do you mean it doesn't make sense? What doesn't make sense to you? His situation. His situation and what I should do in my situation. No, first of all, wait. The first point is what I'm thinking about. His situation. You mean when you see it, you don't know what it's about. Report an error in the passage at 3:19:33 Highlight the passage at 3:19:33

3:19:55 You can't see where he's coming from. Oh, yeah, I see where he's coming from. Well, then you do know what it's about. Yeah, I do know what it's about. Yeah, I do. You have a sense of where he's coming from. Right. So the next step is you don't know what to do about it. The answer, the exact answer doesn't really make, deep down, always make sense to me. Report an error in the passage at 3:19:55 Highlight the passage at 3:19:55

3:20:11 What, darling? Sorry, Keith, you're confusing me every second. What? It doesn't... What answer? What are you talking about? To try to prevent him from killing himself or... Keith, you've got to go start at the beginning. I'm completely confused. Start right again. What's this thing that occurs several times a week in you? I meet a person, talking to a person face to face. Report an error in the passage at 3:20:11 Highlight the passage at 3:20:11

3:20:31 And they don't want to live anymore. This is just one example. Or is this the one that happens several times a week? It really happens several times a week. This one that you're talking about. Yes, not several, two or three times a week it will happen. Okay, so you meet people who are in despair who don't want to live. That's right. Right, so then, next thing is? Report an error in the passage at 3:20:31 Highlight the passage at 3:20:31

3:20:48 I don't really know how to respond to them. It's hard for me to know exactly what to do. Report an error in the passage at 3:20:48 Highlight the passage at 3:20:48

3:21:00 Try to convince them not to do it. What do you mean you don't know what to do? In order to achieve what, Keith? To prevent them from killing themselves. That's not the issue, is it? That's not the issue. There's a person in front of you. Right. They're not at that moment trying to kill themselves, are they? No. They're talking about it. So then they're right in front of you. Right. So if a person's in front of you, you'd be right there in front of them, right back. Report an error in the passage at 3:21:00 Highlight the passage at 3:21:00

3:21:25 And you make sure they hear that you're there. I do that. Well then, that's perfect. What more do you want to do? Well, it doesn't seem enough. Keith, did they go and kill themselves? Sometimes. Well, then that's fine. That means you can't do much about it. But then I feel bad. I'm not interested in you feeling bad. That's a self-pity nonsense. I don't want to go there. Report an error in the passage at 3:21:25 Highlight the passage at 3:21:25

3:21:43 Okay. What are you telling me is you haven't got enough wisdom? Well, I say, cool, keep trucking, join the club. Yeah. Get yourself out of the way, please. Report an error in the passage at 3:21:43 Highlight the passage at 3:21:43

3:21:53 The person's in front of you. Then you deal with it right there. And what do you think? Show that you're there. You can't do more than that. Keith, if you're really there, as much as you can, listening, hold their hand, do whatever, you know. What else can you do? What do you think, what do you mean it's not enough? Report an error in the passage at 3:21:53 Highlight the passage at 3:21:53

3:22:12 What do you mean by those words? What's the assumption there, Keith? Let's deconstruct this. What is the assumption in that it doesn't seem enough? That there's no option, that it is... Not an option to kill yourself. I'm not discussing what he's killing himself. I'm talking about you here. What do you mean you're simply listening and being there 100 % is not enough? Report an error in the passage at 3:22:12 Highlight the passage at 3:22:12

3:22:39 What do you mean by that? That is all I can do. But what you just said is not enough. What is that all about? Not enough. According to what set of criteria? According to whom? According to what criteria? Well, my own and the systems. What? If somebody kills themselves... Keith, I'm not discussing them killing themselves. That's another discussion. We're talking about you being in front of a person who's got a problem. All I can do is be there. Report an error in the passage at 3:22:39 Highlight the passage at 3:22:39

3:23:07 I know that. Well, then what are you saying? What's the problem that's not enough? It seems to me you're quite content with what you're doing. It seems that you are doing enough. You're being there in that moment with that person, listening to them. Because that's what they need most, right? Right. You're listening to them. You're empathising. Is that true? You're empathising with this person. Absolutely, yes. And what empathising with a person means is that you are showing them that they're worthy. Report an error in the passage at 3:23:07 Highlight the passage at 3:23:07

3:23:31 Is that not true? That's true. Then it's up to them to hear that of you, to know that you are there for them. That's their call. But you can't do more than that. No one's asking you to stop them from killing themselves. That's not your job. You can't force them. You can't get a person to do what you want. Report an error in the passage at 3:23:31 Highlight the passage at 3:23:31

3:23:50 But you can do everything in your power to have empathy, to connect with a person, to listen to a person. And then based upon your own experience of your own mind and your own despair and your own depression and your own garbage, which is what they're experiencing, that can inform your listening. But when it comes down to life and death, I'm not sure. I don't know what you mean by that, Keith. What do you mean by that statement? I'm not sure. I'm not totally sure if that's enough. Report an error in the passage at 3:23:50 Highlight the passage at 3:23:50

3:24:16 I don't know what you mean by that statement. Give me an example of a scenario in which that is a relevant statement. I don't get you. I don't know what you're talking about, sweetheart. What do you mean in terms of life and death? That's not enough. That when they do... Kill themselves. But that's, what can you do? Your job isn't written up. Keith has to save lives and it's all your fault. That's kind of completely egocentric. Report an error in the passage at 3:24:16 Highlight the passage at 3:24:16

3:24:42 I think I have a part of that that's still there within me. When it comes down to life and death, I think I still have that little bit that I can't get rid of. What? That I think it's part of my fault. Well then that's plain stupid, isn't it? I think so. Well then you better stop it, hadn't you? Because it just holds you back from being, it's like how arrogant to think that they're killing themselves is your fault. Who do you think you are, God? That's very rude. My mother thought everything that went wrong in my life was her fault. Report an error in the passage at 3:24:42 Highlight the passage at 3:24:42

3:25:08 And I remember it being so, I remember seeing even before I was, well before I was a kid, how dare you? I said to her, excuse me, I have some responsibility here. Don't you take responsibility for my entire life. That's very rude. That's what attachment does. That's what our neurotic compassion is about. Like as if it's all your fault. It's complete arrogance. I mean, we don't think of it this way. It sounds a bit shocking. Report an error in the passage at 3:25:08 Highlight the passage at 3:25:08

3:25:33 But this is what compassion with attachment is. Well, I'm afraid it's also attachment to the system because the system will then do an investigation and if I've made a mistake, then they will reprimand me. You're going to have to accept the consequences. If they think you caused the death, they're going to sack you. Goodbye, you go get another job. No worries, dear. I'll hire you. Don't worry about it. I mean, don't worry about your reputation. Report an error in the passage at 3:25:33 Highlight the passage at 3:25:33

3:25:55 Do the right thing. It might not be what the system likes, but come on, Keith. There's no way they're going to, you know, you're not like these monster guys with their 14 guns and their evil anger, these guards or like another gangster, some of whom I've met. There's no way in the universe they're going to blame new little wimpy little social worker. Come on, mate, give me a break. Oh, my God. Even the guys down in, you know, the killing fields, my friends used to say, and they had all those, where's it? Report an error in the passage at 3:25:55 Highlight the passage at 3:25:55

3:26:19 Where's the one that had all the... Cambodia. No, no, no, darling, God, in this country, forget Cambodia, excuse me, where they had all those guys, a whole bunch of them were suspended for a while because of all the business, you know? What do you call it? Oh, for the... Near Bakersville. Oh, for the Gladys, the Cockfighting, Cock... Yeah, right. Even those guys can get off and be... You know, you think you little wimpy social workers are going to be blamed for somebody killing himself? Report an error in the passage at 3:26:19 Highlight the passage at 3:26:19

3:26:43 How boring can you get? These are murders and people putting two gangsters together so they kill each other. And they call it cockfighting. The guards do it. They even got suspended and they still got off, you know. So they're going to worry about some wimpy social worker? Give me a break, mate. Report an error in the passage at 3:26:43 Highlight the passage at 3:26:43

3:27:00 Keith, get off it. Are we communicating here? Yeah. Good. Thank you very much. Just, I mean, like, you know, you go around the yard. I saw you. But, I mean, all I do is I want to give them a kiss, you know. Hold their little hand. What more is there? It's so simple to help people. Just show them that you're listening. These poor guys, these schizophrenic maniacs on the yards where all they're hearing is violence and insanity all around them and he comes along and, hello Mr Smith, how are you? Report an error in the passage at 3:27:00 Highlight the passage at 3:27:00

3:27:28 Hello Mr Hendricks, how are you? He says. I mean they know you like them, right? They know you respect them, right? Well for God's sake to think, what is it in you that's so ridiculous and self-centred to think that you're not doing enough? Stop it, okay? It's just plain stupid. I don't want to hear those words out of your mouth ever again. Report an error in the passage at 3:27:28 Highlight the passage at 3:27:28

3:27:49 I don't know if you're understanding what I'm saying to you people. Come on, quit. Stop it, Keith. Give the man a hug. Okay, don't hug him. You're attacking him. But just show affection like you do, you know. It's so simple. That's what I've realised over these days. I almost feel like a phony helping prisoners. Or people in prison who happen to be the people we're helping, that's all. Report an error in the passage at 3:27:49 Highlight the passage at 3:27:49

3:28:08 Show them affection. Show them respect. And don't give them lectures. That's the key thing. We think, oh, you should do this and you should do that and you should do this and you should love yourself. Don't say that. Show that you love them. Show that you're listening. Tell them they're worthwhile. Tell them, don't say don't kill yourself. Say, no, no, you're great. You're worthwhile. Don't even say don't anything. Report an error in the passage at 3:28:08 Highlight the passage at 3:28:08

3:28:30 Don't give a lecture. Just say positive things and listen. And then it's up to them if they can't hear it. My friend, you know, I don't know if he'll kill himself or not. He's been like this long enough. He hasn't killed himself yet. But I know I'm not responsible for that. There's no way I can think that I'm responsible for that. Now, if you are responsible, then you better take responsibility. Report an error in the passage at 3:28:30 Highlight the passage at 3:28:30

3:28:48 If you did say, OK, I don't care, go kill yourself. Or if you purposely didn't listen when he was there, then you can feel some kind of remorse. So be realistic, please. And this is what I'm saying here, too. We've got to be realistic, you know. Delusions see a very partial picture. Wisdom is seeing things more clearly, you know, being very... Report an error in the passage at 3:28:48 Highlight the passage at 3:28:48

3:29:09 And it means being humble. But it's almost like... It's almost sounds surprising to say, you know, it's sort of... Taking all the responsibility for someone suffering is arrogance, but it's a good way to put it. It sort of stops you in your tracks. We don't think of it as arrogant, but that's what guilt is. It's just stupid. Report an error in the passage at 3:29:09 Highlight the passage at 3:29:09

3:29:25 It's wrong. It's inappropriate. It's not helpful. But if there is more you can do, kindly do it, please. But again, you can't do more. I mean, if you were Lama Zopa and had clairvoyance and could do sort of magic on his mind and everything, then fine. But if you're not that, there's no point in feeling guilty about it. If you're only at grade one, you can't help it. Report an error in the passage at 3:29:25 Highlight the passage at 3:29:25

3:29:41 That's where you're at. You do your best and accept that. And then learn from it and stretch yourself and go to grade two. And listen, extra careful one time. Stay an extra five minutes when you think you need to. That's what wisdom is, you know. And it forces your compassion to grow. Do you understand? It's an interesting conversation, isn't it, this whole day? Report an error in the passage at 3:29:41 Highlight the passage at 3:29:41

3:30:03 What have you got to say? Come on, nothing yet. Nothing to say? Not really much. I mean, I'm still asking the whole concept. Like, for example, when you come back to your friend. Yeah. And I was thinking the whole time if I... Give her the mic. Give her the mic. Report an error in the passage at 3:30:03 Highlight the passage at 3:30:03

3:30:20 For this, for the recording, I think they have it. Go on, darling. Yes, go on. Sorry, Keith. So, your friend, I was thinking the whole time, I would be sitting at the other end of the telephone wishing him, if I were as smart as you, to just open the door. And now I'm thinking to myself, just... Wishing that, is that already attachment again, that I'm attaching to him? What, which piece? When I wish him to open the door so something can be done so he can get help instead of, you know, kind of being, it sounds right now he's pretty much lost, lost to himself and lost to others and even lost to you because you have not an opportunity to grasp him. Report an error in the passage at 3:30:20 Highlight the passage at 3:30:20

3:31:04 Yes, there's nothing much I can do except just listen, that's right, and be there for him. I was thinking to myself, just this attachment you sometimes have, like, I want to help this person, even if that person doesn't necessarily want to be helped. No, no, that's not... Is it attachment or is it fake compassion? The way to distinguish between them is that if it feels anxious, it's attachment. If it's just a genuine wish, if you could, that you would, that's compassion. Report an error in the passage at 3:31:04 Highlight the passage at 3:31:04

3:31:30 They're mixed together right now, so we try to grow the compassion one. But when it's compassion, it's not anxious. It's just, and it's realistic. When it's attachment, it's kind of needy and it pushes and jab. Come on, listen to me. Come on, come on. And then we start to get angry because he's not listening. Report an error in the passage at 3:31:30 Highlight the passage at 3:31:30

3:31:44 That's when it's attachment. That's what Anna's talking about. That's when it's attachment. We can see they wish they could do what we want. We'd like them to. But then when they don't, we get irritated with them. That shows its attachment. So it's to just, for me, the thing was a good exercise just to really try and just listen. Report an error in the passage at 3:31:44 Highlight the passage at 3:31:44

3:32:02 And then as it's coming, if I'm really listening in a spacious way, then I will hear an opportunity when it comes. And what I was noticing in the hour, hour and a half, almost no opportunity came. Every now and again I'd say something to see what would come back. And I could hear. Like he said to me, tell me what to do. And I'd be quiet and I'd think, okay. Report an error in the passage at 3:32:02 Highlight the passage at 3:32:02

3:32:22 And I'd say something. Just to see. And then instantly he'd argue with it. And I'd realise there was nothing more to say. He wasn't able to hear it. At the same time, frantically wanting me to tell him what to do, but unable to do what I asked him. So I let it be. Just let it be. I understand, sweetheart. Yes, I understand. I understand, I kept saying. I hear, I understand. You understand? No matter what he said, frantically grasping at me, frantic, do something, tell me what to do while I come here. Report an error in the passage at 3:32:22 Highlight the passage at 3:32:22

3:32:45 Tell me what to do. Do you know any llamas? What will I do? All these questions, endless, endless, endless, frantic. And I'd say something and then nothing. So then I'd just say nothing. Just nothing. Just hear him. Just hear him. Just hear him. Frantic. Frantic. It's an interesting experience, I'm trying to say, really. Report an error in the passage at 3:32:45 Highlight the passage at 3:32:45

3:33:02 I'm just using it as a good example, you know, and learning as I'm going along in it. You understand? And then accepting whatever happens, happens. It's his thing. I can't help it. Which sounds like someone becomes cold, but it's not. It's kind of giving respect. And I'm seeing that with all these guys, all these prisoners over 14, 15 years now. We know thousands of these people. Report an error in the passage at 3:33:02 Highlight the passage at 3:33:02

3:33:20 Some of the most dire situations, I mean outrageous kinds of suffering, you know. It's just, I'd be utterly exhausted if it were just attachment. You'd drown, you'd go kill yourself. Because when it's somebody in prison, but it's like him, it's so absolute, there's nothing you can do to open the doors, you can't take the concrete walls away. Report an error in the passage at 3:33:20 Highlight the passage at 3:33:20

3:33:43 So then what I'm seeing is to give a person, just to hear it, to give them respect, to give them tools for them to use. But with him, I couldn't even give him a tool. So just be there. That's the minimum but the best I could do. I'm just thinking out loud here. Report an error in the passage at 3:33:43 Highlight the passage at 3:33:43

3:34:04 It's a very good practice. It's a very good practice. This is the practice of wisdom, which is the one that doesn't drag. When you get dragged down by it, that's the lack of wisdom. That's when it's attachment. That's when it's thinking about them all the time, worrying why they're not doing it and getting it like a mother. Report an error in the passage at 3:34:04 Highlight the passage at 3:34:04

3:34:18 That's the kind of mother one. That's the mother one. They love us to death, but it's mixed completely with attachment. Very interesting. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 3:34:18 Highlight the passage at 3:34:18

3:34:28 Give her the mic. Hello. Thank you very much for coming to talk today. What's your name? Regina. Regina. Regina. What's yours? What was yours? Tatiana, okay, go on. So in light of the experience that you had with this conversation on the phone, a question has come up in my mind about work situations. When let's say you're listening to a co-worker who is in the position of having a difficult situation with another co-worker. That's right, like as if Gina came to you. Report an error in the passage at 3:34:28 Highlight the passage at 3:34:28

3:34:57 Yeah, exactly. So we can keep ourselves from going to other people. Yes. But what if you're in a situation where people are always coming to you? Coming to you, yes, about their problems. Report an error in the passage at 3:34:57 Highlight the passage at 3:34:57

3:35:08 There you go, Gina. Of course, of course. But how would you deal with their expectation of you either... Solving their problem. Solving their problem or continuing the rumor or doing something within the company to help them if they see you as their friend, like, oh, they're on my side. You mean this person is coming to you wanting you to be sort of political about it and support them as opposed to the other person? You mean it's like a political... Or is it genuinely trying to find a solution for them to see it better? Report an error in the passage at 3:35:08 Highlight the passage at 3:35:08

3:35:33 Which one? I guess maybe both. So there can be some situations where they would hope you would help them somehow politically or sort of take their side in the situation or them understanding, I'm just having a really difficult time with this. Can you help me? Sort it out. No, that's good. I mean, that's why I can say in Gina's case, when she's working on her mind, she might come to you for this and really use you as a sounding board. Report an error in the passage at 3:35:33 Highlight the passage at 3:35:33

3:35:56 And that's then it's easy. You can really listen and help her get more clear what she's thinking and give her some encouragement. That she can do it and she can work with it and it's okay, you know. But if it's the political side, I think completely keep your mouth shut. Do not, I mean, just don't want to get involved because that is the poison of poisons. Report an error in the passage at 3:35:56 Highlight the passage at 3:35:56

3:36:12 Because it's all getting, taking sides, you know. That's a disaster. So you would just recommend, you know, no matter how many people came to you asking for things or bringing up problems, just to continually tell them that you don't want to be involved. No, I'm not saying that. I didn't even begin to say that. Okay, sorry. So then I guess my misunderstanding. Well, then you have to give me a better example of the kind of thing they come to with them. Report an error in the passage at 3:36:12 Highlight the passage at 3:36:12

3:36:34 Give me a better example, please. I can't answer more precisely. Okay, so an example would be, let's say it's your boss. Is it a real example or are you just pretending? I can think of a... Okay, is this an issue for you that's real? Yes. Okay, good. Tell us some examples then. Okay. So one Report an error in the passage at 3:36:34 Highlight the passage at 3:36:34

3:36:55 example would be I work in the computer industry, and so we're dealing with different projects all the time. If I have a boss who is managing a project that's not going very well, she may try to... blame on the developers of that project and say that they're not keeping the project on So she would come to me complaining, asking if the developers are really doing their job or if I can figure out from a developer standpoint what the situation is. Report an error in the passage at 3:36:55 Highlight the passage at 3:36:55

3:37:31 okay you know as okay Okay, so you tell me then how you would think you should respond to this person. What is your wisdom telling you? You give me your example, you tell me. What's your understanding of the situation? Give a real assessment to me now separately of the situation. That she's not genuinely taking responsibility for her job. Okay, so then do you think... And she's coming to me as her friend to reinforce that viewpoint. Report an error in the passage at 3:37:31 Highlight the passage at 3:37:31

3:37:55 So do you think she has the wisdom to see this if you were to point it out? Not always. Okay, so therefore if a person can't understand something, there's no point in saying it. So therefore, given that, what would be your response? What would be the skillful response for you, do you think? How could you respond skillfully? What would you say? Report an error in the passage at 3:37:55 Highlight the passage at 3:37:55

3:38:15 That I'm not on the project and that I don't have any insight into... So you're not involved in this project? Are you involved in this project? She's discussing... Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Are you one of these developers she's talking about? No. So she's needing you to... And what would she do with your words if you were to say, yes, you're right? Report an error in the passage at 3:38:15 Highlight the passage at 3:38:15

3:38:35 What would she do with that? Would she use that as a weapon? I really have to try to understand the situation better. I can't answer. Yeah, sorry, it's kind of a vague example, but something very concrete isn't coming to mind. Report an error in the passage at 3:38:35 Highlight the passage at 3:38:35

3:38:52 I would say in certain cases she would be able to use... What you said. What I said. What's your name again? Regina. So she'd say, oh, Regina said, and try and use it to back her up, you mean. Well, then you'd just be skilful. I mean, you'd find a way to say, yeah, maybe you're right about that, but I'm really not so sure. Report an error in the passage at 3:38:52 Highlight the passage at 3:38:52

3:39:06 Do you think that's really how it is? But being not against her, but not totally giving her what she wants. There are ways of answering that are skilful, like a child coming to you. You can see exactly what's going on, and they're dancing the little tantrum. You can be skilful in how you answer. To kind of calm them, but still, but the thing is if she's really needling you for something she wants to hear and you won't give it to her, then no matter what you say won't make her happy. Report an error in the passage at 3:39:06 Highlight the passage at 3:39:06

3:39:27 So you've got to accept that too. Okay. You've got to accept that you can't make people happy every time. You've got to accept that. And that's just what you have to do, but not without being political. Be sincere, be truthful, don't manipulate, don't lie. Do you understand? You've just got to find your way through this little minefield. That's what wisdom is, through the little minefield. Report an error in the passage at 3:39:27 Highlight the passage at 3:39:27

3:39:47 It's real tricky. You know, it's like in a situation like in this house, for example, there's about 10 or 11 of us working here. The Sechenling, the centre, and then the Liberation Prison Project. And we're really mixed in many projects. We're doing some projects at the moment. We're all working together. So it's about 12, 11 or 12 of us. So because we're all on the same path, we're all Buddhist, because there's a strong recognition by everybody that we're trying to work on our own minds, everybody has problems with each other, believe me, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:39:47 Highlight the passage at 3:39:47

3:40:13 So that at least then there's a common agreement between us that we've got to look at our own mind. That person might be a maniac, I might say to somebody when they come to me about it. You're absolutely right. He is a maniac. Meanwhile, honey, look at your own mind. This is your practice right in front of you. And that's because we understand that here. Report an error in the passage at 3:40:13 Highlight the passage at 3:40:13

3:40:33 We can work in that way. But in ordinary situations, people think you're nuts. But there's no harm in helping people see that, you know. I mean, it's very difficult when you're dealing with timelines and projects and external facts, you know, goals and everything. You've got to still keep that moving whilst working on it in an internally skillful way. Report an error in the passage at 3:40:33 Highlight the passage at 3:40:33

3:40:52 And it's a tricky thing. It's a tricky thing, you know. It's not that easy. And put it this way, the extent to which you deal with any of this stuff, this is the wisdom that you develop by looking at your mind. The more you work on your mind, the more skillful you are in helping others. It's just sort of like if someone comes and asks you a question about computers, you know yourself the extent to which you can answer it is the extent to which you have your own computer wisdom, isn't it? If you have zero, then you can do nothing. Report an error in the passage at 3:40:52 Highlight the passage at 3:40:52

3:41:20 So the more wisdom you have about your mind and about delusions and attachment and anger and fears and this and that, the more you can help the person who comes to you. In other words, a good answer to that is how to help people? Work on your own mind. How to help people learn computers? Learn computers. You understand my point? Report an error in the passage at 3:41:20 Highlight the passage at 3:41:20

3:41:37 That's the fact. And you can only help them to the extent that you know your own mind. Okay. So sometimes just be quiet. I don't know. I don't know what to say. Sort of support her. Oh, I know how you feel, but maybe just support her. I'm sure you're doing really well. I know it must be this sometimes. And encourage the person. Report an error in the passage at 3:41:37 Highlight the passage at 3:41:37

3:41:55 Be kind to the person. Give her some confidence. Because if she is not taking responsibility, she's coming to you because she's panicking a bit. And so she does manipulate to try to get you to support her. But give her some genuine kindness. Oh, I'm sure you'll do it. You can handle it. Don't worry about it. You can handle it. That's often the one with your people too. My guy too. I said to him a few times, oh, I trust your wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 3:41:55 Highlight the passage at 3:41:55

3:42:16 You'll know the right thing to do. Give it right back to the person if they're brave enough to take it. You can handle it. You'll be right. You can really handle this, I'm sure. You'll be okay. They don't necessarily ask you to say that. It can be surprising to hear it, but that's a very piece of positive feedback. You understand my point? Report an error in the passage at 3:42:16 Highlight the passage at 3:42:16

3:42:35 Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 3:42:35 Highlight the passage at 3:42:35

3:42:40 Yeah. 2.30. What time are we supposed to finish today? Four. Report an error in the passage at 3:42:40 Highlight the passage at 3:42:40

3:42:47 Go on then. Yes, sweetheart. I think we're going to have some... Look, she's setting up cookies out there. We're going to have an afternoon tea break in a minute. Okay. Go on. Report an error in the passage at 3:42:47 Highlight the passage at 3:42:47

3:42:57 I feel like I'm in the middle of a lesson about myself. A situation at work. The same woman has been following me around my whole life. Following her? Who's this person? Janet? What are you talking about? At work. Oh, okay, this person at work. Right. Come on, tell us your scenarios. It's so fascinating. Report an error in the passage at 3:42:57 Highlight the passage at 3:42:57

3:43:15 Yeah, a woman at work accused me of many different things and some false accusation. Right. Report an error in the passage at 3:43:15 Highlight the passage at 3:43:15

3:43:29 I did everything I knew to do, which started with examining myself. Then talking to trusted advisors and prayed and meditated. I was never able to just go to this woman and say, you know, gee, I understand you think this. That's right. I don't get it, so can we talk about it? Yeah, right. I was never able to take that step. Report an error in the passage at 3:43:29 Highlight the passage at 3:43:29

3:44:02 Right. um which I can see would have been helpful in that situation. When was all this? Is this a particular situation? Yeah. When was this? About eight months ago. And you're still in the same situation with this person at work? No, I left. Oh, okay. I left and I got another job. And of course what I'm mindful of is recreating this same experience. Report an error in the passage at 3:44:02 Highlight the passage at 3:44:02

3:44:25 So I feel like I'm somewhere, you know, sort of in the middle of learning this lesson. I'm not quite sure what it is. Okay. You know, my sense, Janet, okay, we haven't even talked about karma yet, so maybe I'll bring karma up a bit here. This is just the bigger picture from the Buddhist point of view that answers the question, why is this happening? Report an error in the passage at 3:44:25 Highlight the passage at 3:44:25

3:44:48 And this also includes the good things. We never seem to ask, we all agonise about why do bad things happen, but we never say, why do good things happen to me? Because we just want them to happen and give me more please, thank you, greed, greed, you know. But it's the bad things because we can't stand them. So the Buddha's explanation of why things happen, he's got a very different take on it as we know. Report an error in the passage at 3:44:48 Highlight the passage at 3:44:48

3:45:06 He doesn't talk about a creator. He doesn't talk about it just being physical. He's got this view that we've all got continuity of consciousness which is not physical that goes back and back and back, number one. And number two, that every microsecond of what we do say and think is a karma, an action that imprints a seed on the mind or leaves an imprint on the mind, a tendency on the consciousness which is not physical. Report an error in the passage at 3:45:06 Highlight the passage at 3:45:06

3:45:25 It's virtually programming our consciousness. And so, you know, we'll die from past life and our consciousness is programmed, it'll find its way to this human mother and then we get born, we've got all these personality traits and these are all imprints from the past. So one way our karma ripens from the past is in terms of tendencies, to be angry, to be jealous, to be loving, to be kind, to be a killer, to be a fisherman, whatever it might be. Report an error in the passage at 3:45:25 Highlight the passage at 3:45:25

3:45:45 But the other way karma ripens is in terms of what happens to us, how we're seen by others, how we're treated by others. So this is where we come into work, relationships, parents. You get my point? So there's two factors here. One is our own mind and our own tendencies, which inform our experiences as they arise in front of us. Report an error in the passage at 3:45:45 Highlight the passage at 3:45:45

3:46:05 But two, there are the seeds we planted in the past that have literally ripened as our experiences in the front of us. You're hearing my point? So the karmic one is the explanation for how come she has these parents is one thing. Who might have or not have encouraged her. But two, there's her attachment that is needy and interprets only that they didn't give her this and didn't give her that and didn't give her this or whatever. Report an error in the passage at 3:46:05 Highlight the passage at 3:46:05

3:46:28 So these are two separate scenarios. So karma is the cause of even why you have those imprints. But karma is also the cause. Your past actions are also the cause of why you meet that thing in front of you. So a common... Report an error in the passage at 3:46:28 Highlight the passage at 3:46:28

3:46:40 The tendencies ones is called the actions similar to the cause. So if you see that you've got a tendency to be angry, well guess what? The cause is having been angry before. It's hardly rocket science. How come you're good at piano? Well, I must have been playing piano before. We all know that. That's karma. We just don't call it karma. That's all. How come you're good at math? Because you've practiced math. How come you're good at killing? You must have practiced killing. How come you're good at patience? Report an error in the passage at 3:46:40 Highlight the passage at 3:46:40

3:47:02 You must have practiced patience. These are the simple Buddhist explanation psychologically for our tendencies. Are you with me? And then the other one is called experiences similar to the cause. So if you have people in your life who are loving to you and kind to you and give you things, you know. That's the result of you being kind to others and giving things to others. If people abuse you and harm you and lie to you, you must have abused them and harmed them and lied to them. It's a simple kind of logic. Report an error in the passage at 3:47:02 Highlight the passage at 3:47:02

3:47:25 It's not punishment. It's not blame. It's just Buddha's explanation for how come. You get my point? So for a Buddhist, more and more... Working with this as your view of your life, initially it's just a concept because we've got a very different view now. The view we have now is mummy made me, daddy made me, God made me, it's not my fault. Report an error in the passage at 3:47:25 Highlight the passage at 3:47:25

3:47:43 We feel like this victim that got plonked on this earth and things happen unfairly. That's the experience we have. Things are unfair, you know, isn't it? It's a very deep feeling. And that's the view of ego. Poor me, unfair, victim, the self-pity me. It's very primordial in us. And the Buddha would say that sense of... Report an error in the passage at 3:47:43 Highlight the passage at 3:47:43

3:48:00 Self-pity, that sense of victim is coming from this, he says, a mistaken philosophy that somehow someone else plonked you on this earth. He thinks that's a ridiculous idea. I'm just sort of kidding, talking like that. But it's a very different philosophy the Buddha has and it takes a while for us... If you're a Buddhist, if you want to work with this one, and that's our choice, to really make our minds, to imbue our minds with this view. You understand? Report an error in the passage at 3:48:00 Highlight the passage at 3:48:00

3:48:24 To use this as your explanation for why things happen. Because it causes you to help own the responsibility, own the experience. You understand? So, being blamed. Everybody in this room, I bet, since we're born, has been blamed for things we didn't do in this life. Wouldn't you agree? It's the commonest experience of every living being. Report an error in the passage at 3:48:24 Highlight the passage at 3:48:24

3:48:45 If you don't have the view of karma, then it is really correct to say, oh well, things happen, you don't know why, which is the philosophy we all have now, which I think is like a fascist philosophy. I find that terrifying, quite frankly. It's sort of like having all these violent, ridiculous weeds popping up in your garden and you haven't got a view called botany and you just think, oh well, this happens, no one knows why. Report an error in the passage at 3:48:45 Highlight the passage at 3:48:45

3:49:06 I mean, that's a very scary view of the world, I think. Do you understand my point here? Whereas I like, for me, the Buddhist view. Just even conceptually, which is the level I'm working at it with, is a reasonable explanation for how come me this, how come me that, how come people be kind to me? Well, it's the logic, I must have sown the seed. Report an error in the passage at 3:49:06 Highlight the passage at 3:49:06

3:49:21 How come they lie to me? I must have sown the seed. How come they don't lie to me? I must have sown the seed. So if you see a fruit in your garden, you know it's your garden, there must have been a seed there. So if there is an experience, you know you must have sown the seed. It's a very sort of simple concept. Report an error in the passage at 3:49:21 Highlight the passage at 3:49:21

3:49:38 But it takes a while to live with it, to work with it, to begin to bear it and hold it, you know. So, getting to the point here, when you have this view of... So, you know, OK, I'll use an extreme example again, which is always a good example. These two young Tibetan nuns, I remember, were at this conference in New York that Richard Gere held at the time of the Dalai Lama visiting there. Report an error in the passage at 3:49:38 Highlight the passage at 3:49:38

3:50:02 It was back in 2003, and I was invited, a couple of people. There were 20 former prisoners. All of whom had worked with Buddhism or something like Buddhism to some extent while they were incarcerated and they're all out of prison now and they're all invited and we all met for the day and they all talked about their experiences, blah, blah, blah. Report an error in the passage at 3:50:02 Highlight the passage at 3:50:02

3:50:17 And it was really very moving to hear all these different people, a whole cross-section of American people. Mexican-Americans and Puerto Ricans and black ones and white ones and male ones and female ones, a nice cross-section of Americans. And all talking about their experiences in prison and all dealing with their own dramas and their suffering and struggling with it. Report an error in the passage at 3:50:17 Highlight the passage at 3:50:17

3:50:34 Well, it also invited were two young Tibetan nuns who'd been incarcerated in Lhasa. Because they were Tibetan Buddhists, because they were Buddhists, right? They didn't do anything, anything at all. So there they were, clearly being completely, in relative sense, innocent. They just were being nuns and that's how they got imprisoned. Report an error in the passage at 3:50:34 Highlight the passage at 3:50:34

3:50:51 So there they were, tortured virtually daily and sexually abused virtually daily. I think they were in prison for a couple of years, I can't remember. Then they escaped, whatever happened. And when they were talking about it, first of all it was really clear to everybody listening that their external suffering was more severe than everybody else's put together. Report an error in the passage at 3:50:51 Highlight the passage at 3:50:51

3:51:07 But what was really evident to everybody listening, These two young women weren't angry. They weren't feeling like victims. They were compassionate. They were sad. Tears were coming. But the way they talked, you could hear it was mixed with kindness, with acceptance, with understanding karma, taking responsibility for these experiences. Report an error in the passage at 3:51:07 Highlight the passage at 3:51:07

3:51:29 And even as they said very humbly, and of course we had compassion for our torturers because we realised we had a karmic connection. This is how they talk in Buddhism. You have a karma connection with those parents and due to your past actions with them, you got born to them and you saw them in this particular way, they treated you this particular way, whatever, whatever. So this one of karma, in a simple way of putting it, what it does is bring a very powerful sense of responsibility for not just, oh, this is happening to me, but for even how come it's happening to me, which is a very unusual thing in our Western culture. Report an error in the passage at 3:51:29 Highlight the passage at 3:51:29

3:52:00 There's no such concept. Someone else made you, didn't they? We don't factor ourselves into the fact that we're even ourselves. We think our mummy did it. It's kind of a big thing. But the Buddha's really saying we made ourselves. We are the ones who even created ourselves in an evolutionary sense. In the same way we understand that if you're really good at piano right now, you know you created that music, didn't you? You had the piano, you had Mr Steinway to thank and Mr Mozart and your decent teacher, but you're honoured to take responsibility for your hard work and now here is the proof of the pudding, you're good at piano. Report an error in the passage at 3:52:00 Highlight the passage at 3:52:00

3:52:33 Well that's what Buddha is saying about everything inside us. The anger, the love, the kindness, the experiences even. It's an interdependent scenario, but we are the main player in that. So it's a very powerful concept. It really does bring responsibility. It really brings courage. It really brings, it quits the victim mind. It really does quit that. Because even let's say she's right. What's your name again, darling? Carla. Carla's right. Report an error in the passage at 3:52:33 Highlight the passage at 3:52:33

3:52:56 And her parents were emotional stone. And I know I'm being sarcastic to Carla. Let's say that she's right. If you have a view of karma, like these two young women, they would not be angry with that. They didn't want it. They'd rather they'd just be let out, please, and stop the sexual torture here. But they were able to own the experience as the fruit of their own actions. And that's a really powerful concept. Report an error in the passage at 3:52:56 Highlight the passage at 3:52:56

3:53:18 But the goodness as well. That's what's powerful. The goodness also. Whereas now we have the philosophy, my mother made me. Nothing to do with me. It's a very powerful, awful concept actually. It implies I'm this victim. I mean it's really quite shocking if you think of it, really follow it through. It's like Frankenstein making his monster, you know. How dare my mother decide to create Robina and give me anger, jealousy, you know, all the rude things and then jump me out here on this earth and say now it's your job. Report an error in the passage at 3:53:18 Highlight the passage at 3:53:18

3:53:51 I mean excuse me. How about just minding her own business and not getting me involved? I mean, it's a really interesting logical conclusion. It sounds insane. But the one view that all Christians, all Muslims, all creator people, and I'm not being rude here, just looking at the philosophies, and materialists share is that someone else created us. Report an error in the passage at 3:53:51 Highlight the passage at 3:53:51

3:54:10 Well, Buddha says, what a ridiculous idea. You made yourself, babe. I mean, I just find that an extremely tasty philosophy. I like the Buddhist one. Because it helps me hugely take responsibility. Slowly, slowly, it doesn't happen overnight, but own whatever it is that happens to me. It's mine. Then that really is a courageous state of mind, you know. So you can see, and this is what he means by ego. The ego grasping is the view of victim. Report an error in the passage at 3:54:10 Highlight the passage at 3:54:10

3:54:39 It is the view of victim. It is the view of isolated victim. It's not fair. It's done to me. So my friend on the phone at his moment in time is a classic example of the extreme of the extreme of no responsibility, complete victim. It's all done to him and it has nothing has anything to do with him. That is the nightmare of ego. Do you hear what I'm saying? It is in its nature victim. Report an error in the passage at 3:54:39 Highlight the passage at 3:54:39

3:55:03 So Buddha would even argue, and I'm trying to be controversial here, that even the view of a creator is like a view coming out of this view of victim, that it's all done to you. You can see how it's a very powerful one that can bring devotion. It's a very amazing view from that perspective. But the one of the materialist one of your parents doing it to you, I just can't see any virtue in that whatsoever. Report an error in the passage at 3:55:03 Highlight the passage at 3:55:03

3:55:24 It just means you're going to dump blame. If my mummy didn't make me, then I have to blame her. You are right in blaming your parents. And you should sue them. Report an error in the passage at 3:55:24 Highlight the passage at 3:55:24

3:55:32 Actually, that's the logical conclusion. Because if you make a cupboard, you make a beautiful table but it doesn't work and you charge me all that money, it is your responsibility and you must take it. So give me my money back, please. But my mother did not make me, Buddha says. She merely gave me a body. How kind of her. And whatever she gave you, baby girl, you did it to her in the past. Report an error in the passage at 3:55:32 Highlight the passage at 3:55:32

3:55:54 So you own it and then start seeing the good in her. Before you know it, you'll love your mummy to death and you'll suddenly see all the good things that she did in her little heart that you couldn't see because of your distorted view, you know. Then you really can take responsibility for it then. I mean, slowly, slowly, Carla. Feel the pain. Feel the hurt, you know. We've got to own it and be on the floor crying in pain and then heal it, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:55:54 Highlight the passage at 3:55:54

3:56:15 Do you understand what I'm saying, people? So, honey child, this is what I'm getting to here is one of the, okay, one of the marvellous practices. That we do every day at the end of the day and Lama Zopa says you're insane not to do it every day. It's just called purification and it's the four R's. It's regret, reliance, remedy, resolve. So regret is the attitude that we cultivate that is not guilt by the way. Report an error in the passage at 3:56:15 Highlight the passage at 3:56:15

3:56:45 Regret is the attitude I did this, this, this, this and this. What a drag. I regret this from the depths of my heart because you know what? I don't want the future results of this, because Buddha's saying whatever you do say and think brings results to you. So clearly you want the nice ones, but you don't want suffering. If you don't want suffering and you know you sowed the seeds, then you need to regret what you did so you'd stop the future, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:56:45 Highlight the passage at 3:56:45

3:57:08 So you take responsibility, just like if you're eating poison every day. You better say, oh my God, what an idiot, I ate that poison. Then you say, what can I do about it here? Rather than, who put that poison in my lunch? How dare they? I'm going to sue them. It's not fair. Meanwhile, you're dying, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:57:08 Highlight the passage at 3:57:08

3:57:24 So regret is taking responsibility. This is the fruit of your past actions. So one of the interesting things about this step, each of these steps purifies a certain way that karma ripens. So this one called experience is similar to the cause. Let's say the one of being accused falsely. Simplistically speaking, we can say that's the result of accusing others in the past. Report an error in the passage at 3:57:24 Highlight the passage at 3:57:24

3:57:47 I mean, we're talking past life here. So given that you have this view, then by regretting... You can sit down and you can regret from the depths of your heart. You think this literally. Whatever it was you did 42 lives ago, 10 lives ago to this Joan, whoever did it to you, because it's the fruit of your past one. Report an error in the passage at 3:57:47 Highlight the passage at 3:57:47

3:58:04 You regret from the depths of your heart whatever you did to cause Joan to do this to you. And don't be surprised that one day it all changes. It just goes away. Because regret of the past negativity purifies the specific result called experience similar to the cause. You understand? Regretting the doing of something and vowing never to do it again. So vowing never to do it again guarantees that you'll never do it again. Report an error in the passage at 3:58:04 Highlight the passage at 3:58:04

3:58:32 Regretting doing it guarantees that it won't happen to you again because it's you doing it and it's happening to you. So regretting purifies it happening to you. Vowing never to do it again is obvious. It purifies the habit to keep doing it, which is the way you clean up your act. You understand? It's extremely practical psychologically. Report an error in the passage at 3:58:32 Highlight the passage at 3:58:32

3:58:51 And often when it's this kind of thing of being blamed, it's the most awful torture because you know there's nothing you can do to get that person to change their mind. Report an error in the passage at 3:58:51 Highlight the passage at 3:58:51

3:59:03 So we feel so hopeless. But sitting down that day, that night, and I've seen this work again and again, you own responsibility for it, already you feel empowered rather than the victim. So in Gina's case, the same. You really feel, you're brave, you're bravely, okay, damn it, I must have, you know, you're kind of being brave with yourself. I regret whatever it is I did in the past, you know, that is causing this thing right now. Report an error in the passage at 3:59:03 Highlight the passage at 3:59:03

3:59:28 And then you vow never to do it again. It cleans it up. I'm not kidding. And then at least it's empowering. Rather than, poor me, what am I going to do? You feel so hopeless, you want to go to the person, you want to make them change, but sometimes even going to them won't make a change, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:59:28 Highlight the passage at 3:59:28

3:59:42 Do you understand? And you go, it festers. People in prison. The number of people in this crazy country, in every country I'm sure, who are imprisoned and they shouldn't be. Falsely accused. I mean, I can hear the torture in the letters we get from our guys. The torture of trying to bear this fact that you're on death row and you didn't do something wrong, you know. Report an error in the passage at 3:59:42 Highlight the passage at 3:59:42

4:00:01 The number of cases now. They even cancelled death row for many years and still is a moratorium in Michigan. So many false accusations. I mean, they had to even cancel it. Because there's so many people getting killed who shouldn't be because of lousy evidence. You can imagine the pain of being on death row and you didn't do it. Oh my God, you know. So many of the guys we know who are working with this stuff, they're becoming these strong people accepting the reality. Report an error in the passage at 4:00:01 Highlight the passage at 4:00:01

4:00:27 Like these young Tibetan women, what do they do except be Buddhist for God's sake? And they're getting tortured and they weren't angry because they own this one of karma. It's a huge view, but it really, and you can see too, it gives you enormous courage and self-respect. Because in ordinary worldly view, there is no answer to why me. There is no answer, period. The best we can say is, it just happens. Report an error in the passage at 4:00:27 Highlight the passage at 4:00:27

4:00:51 I mean, that's torture. And I think in our life, in our world, our materialist world, the reason for so much of our pain and suffering is because we can't find an answer to why me. You get my point? It's a very powerful point. I mean, it needs thinking about, this is the Buddha's deal. But my feeling is, you know, until we can really look into karma in this way, it's not, we don't really have the full picture of Buddha's, you know, kind of view of the universe. It's a very powerful one, actually. Report an error in the passage at 4:00:51 Highlight the passage at 4:00:51

4:01:15 And it goes quite deep, you know. It's not just some, oh, well, karma is what Buddha says sort of thing, like punishment and reward. It goes quite profound. But it's up to each one of us to the extent we want to work with it, you know, and use it experientially. Report an error in the passage at 4:01:15 Highlight the passage at 4:01:15

4:01:28 Does that make sense, Janet? Okay. Eh? Good, darling. Then we can get really strong. You can own it. You can really then learn to own it, you know. Report an error in the passage at 4:01:28 Highlight the passage at 4:01:28

4:01:57 Anyway, darling, Report an error in the passage at 4:01:57 Highlight the passage at 4:01:57

4:02:16 this is Report an error in the passage at 4:02:16 Highlight the passage at 4:02:16

4:02:21 a Report an error in the passage at 4:02:21 Highlight the passage at 4:02:21

4:02:39 long time ago. You're now 90-something. How old are you now, darling? Yes, what about that then? What's the question, darling? Report an error in the passage at 4:02:39 Highlight the passage at 4:02:39

4:02:13 that's very foolish, Solange. Report an error in the passage at 4:02:13 Highlight the passage at 4:02:13

4:02:43 Oh, I'm sorry. She's only 85. I beg your pardon. And her husband died already. So, darling, it's all ancient history. Enough. Well, then it's fine. You're allowed to have him then because you're now... Okay, then. Report an error in the passage at 4:02:43 Highlight the passage at 4:02:43

4:03:00 That's fine, then. Enough, Solange. That's good enough, darling. Come on. I think it's afternoon tea time. Come on. We've brought you some nice cookies. Go on and buy a cookie and have a coffee or whatever you want. I'll see you in 15 minutes. Solange. So wonderful. Report an error in the passage at 4:03:00 Highlight the passage at 4:03:00

4:03:15 It is light. It's all past and gone. Well, stop feeling it. Regret it, darling. Come on. Come here, Anna. Report an error in the passage at 4:03:15 Highlight the passage at 4:03:15

4:03:39 When Report an error in the passage at 4:03:39 Highlight the passage at 4:03:39

4:03:43 you're Report an error in the passage at 4:03:43 Highlight the passage at 4:03:43

· · · silence, 18 minutes

4:21:27 really forced to Report an error in the passage at 4:21:27 Highlight the passage at 4:21:27

4:21:40 get us to do just that. Yeah, right. Report an error in the passage at 4:21:40 Highlight the passage at 4:21:40

4:21:50 Exactly. It's like deer in the headlights. Do I mean? Report an error in the passage at 4:21:50 Highlight the passage at 4:21:50

4:22:21 Most of my notions kind of mean to each other. Otherwise, Report an error in the passage at 4:22:21 Highlight the passage at 4:22:21

4:22:49 I find that really helpful. This the one I want to talk to. Report an error in the passage at 4:22:49 Highlight the passage at 4:22:49

· · · silence, 19 minutes

4:22:56 like she said, you know, it was my Report an error in the passage at 4:22:56 Highlight the passage at 4:22:56

4:23:07 I want to How do you feel Report an error in the passage at 4:23:07 Highlight the passage at 4:23:07

4:23:14 there? Recognizing it is one thing but dealing with it. Or like I can recognize it but I still end up doing some of the same things. So to me that's the challenging part. What to do in practice as opposed to just the intellectual understanding of how it could come about. There are years and years of food habits, exactly. Report an error in the passage at 4:23:14 Highlight the passage at 4:23:14

4:23:44 not being generated with a wrong view, it feels real. doesn't go on. It doesn't just like, oh, I understand. I guess her points are different. Report an error in the passage at 4:23:44 Highlight the passage at 4:23:44

4:24:06 slowly, slowly, it gets better or it takes the I'm very impatient, I think. that's the problem. Report an error in the passage at 4:24:06 Highlight the passage at 4:24:06

4:24:33 that you're not aware of it, you go back into that you know, you go back victim. It's like constant effort. So I think that's part of what slows me down. I'm lazy, you know? You want it to be immediate. You want it to be fixed. And then it's like, okay, what is talking right now? When I started asking her something completely different, what do you think? Report an error in the passage at 4:24:33 Highlight the passage at 4:24:33

4:25:01 was coming from the victim, which, you know, like I said, I go back and forth. Understanding and understanding. and going back to those emotions that think part of It's not just like learning a new way to get somewhere, like new roads to take. It's fundamentally changing how you think and how you see yourself. Report an error in the passage at 4:25:01 Highlight the passage at 4:25:01

4:25:28 And that's not easy to do. That's why it takes, at least for me, a lot of time and a lot of effort. Because it's changing how you view the world. But you're still in a certain view. So it's just, like I said, at least for me, kind of getting at it from the edge of the world. Report an error in the passage at 4:25:28 Highlight the passage at 4:25:28

4:25:53 You know when she talks about being bipolar? Yeah. I'm really so bipolar lately. You know, I'm going from, you know, what I've come to know before. Report an error in the passage at 4:25:53 Highlight the passage at 4:25:53

4:26:07 And it keeps going back and forth. And sometimes I say something or sometimes I do something. And I don't know from which side it's coming from. Where you hear stuff and you think, like, intellectually I get it, or it's really tantalizing, but there's still a part of you that's going, well yeah, but, but, but. And it's always easier to see that. Report an error in the passage at 4:26:07 Highlight the passage at 4:26:07

4:26:40 I had a guy who actually did a retreat last year. She did a long rim retreat in Atlanta Medicine Buddha. And there was this one woman who was telling a story about a personal relationship that was really challenging. And it's like you can see it so clearly when it's somebody else talking. And she kept saying, but this guy did this and this guy did that. Report an error in the passage at 4:26:40 Highlight the passage at 4:26:40

4:26:58 did that, and she would do the same kind of stuff to get her to challenge. My friend? Yeah. And she'd go, I know, I understand. But he did it. But he, you And yet when it's you talking, you don't see it completely. friend, because you don't have a distance, you're right on top of it, so you can only it when you're from the outside looking in over And when it's you, it seems so real as opposed to, you know, having been able to. Yeah, my friend was saying, because I'm so angry. Report an error in the passage at 4:26:58 Highlight the passage at 4:26:58

4:27:26 You're saying all these things to me. Don't you agree? And then, you know, I was like, oh, shit, I don't agree, but I don't want to say to her, you know, like the situation before. Yeah, that was helpful, though. I don't want to say no, I don't agree. So I said, well, how about, this is what I told her, how about if you write down about this anger? Report an error in the passage at 4:27:26 Highlight the passage at 4:27:26

4:27:50 Yeah, because that was actually a bad person when she said it about... Number one, the persons are ready to hear criticism and say, oh, I don't agree with you. Don't tell them something if they can't hear it. They're not going to listen to that anyway. The only thing that is going to, is just going to say, okay, next time I'm not going to talk to you about that. Report an error in the passage at 4:27:50 Highlight the passage at 4:27:50

4:28:10 That's why I was telling her, you know, right about this anger, because really I was, I knew that she was angry with herself, you know, that she was angry that she left his dad. Report an error in the passage at 4:28:10 Highlight the passage at 4:28:10

4:28:28 So I wanted her to write so she could see that it's really about herself and not about this guy. But you know, she's really smart and has an understanding. Report an error in the passage at 4:28:28 Highlight the passage at 4:28:28

4:28:43 When it's you, it's hard. It's a different story about yourself. You don't have it. Because of this, it's love. I mean, six months down the line, you might be looking at it and say, oh yeah, now I know what you're talking about. But when you're there, when you're in that fight, no way. And I'm, especially me, I'm like, oh, when I'm in there, I'm in there. And that's the hardest part. Report an error in the passage at 4:28:43 Highlight the passage at 4:28:43

4:29:05 It's really so hard. I mean, I'm already happy about it. Every once in a while I fix myself getting there and I'm just like, hold on, hold back right now. Don't send it on, don't make that call. Yes. Avoid it, but not at all. Report an error in the passage at 4:29:05 Highlight the passage at 4:29:05

4:29:27 But it's good to be around. Yeah, some of it I need to hear over and over again. bless you. Report an error in the passage at 4:29:27 Highlight the passage at 4:29:27

4:29:37 So I'm like, oh yes, it still applies. Report an error in the passage at 4:29:37 Highlight the passage at 4:29:37

4:29:49 I think I haven't ever taught a teaching, I haven't had the way with something we say, okay, let's think about it. At least one. I need to enjoy the great waters. Report an error in the passage at 4:29:49 Highlight the passage at 4:29:49

4:30:01 4 o 'clock, I have to call my friend to the one who around me, and he didn't want call me. Report an error in the passage at 4:30:01 Highlight the passage at 4:30:01

4:30:12 And by the way, I applaud your courage because it's hard to speak out in front of virtual strangers. Report an error in the passage at 4:30:12 Highlight the passage at 4:30:12

4:30:27 Yes. Report an error in the passage at 4:30:27 Highlight the passage at 4:30:27

4:30:33 We try to get away and they won't let you. You know those people that go like this. Yeah, yeah. I felt like that. Is she cornered? Yes. I was like, no, I'm not talking about that. She's like, I don't know what you're doing. Yeah, I know. Report an error in the passage at 4:30:33 Highlight the passage at 4:30:33

4:30:40 then, ah! Report an error in the passage at 4:30:40 Highlight the passage at 4:30:40

4:30:50 Sometimes I saw this in the other retreat, too, with the people she knew us really well. She's actually really in the middle of the way. She's got the relationship with them. She already knows how far she can go. Yeah, yeah. Different people meet. Strangers to this. Report an error in the passage at 4:30:50 Highlight the passage at 4:30:50

4:31:08 pretty good short job character. I think for most of the teachers I've been exposed to here, I have a pretty good sense of how to deal with some people, you know. You just need to be heard, whereas some people need to be pleased. Report an error in the passage at 4:31:08 Highlight the passage at 4:31:08

4:31:28 That's a hard thing to do. Going far far. You can go. Report an error in the passage at 4:31:28 Highlight the passage at 4:31:28

4:31:37 much. Report an error in the passage at 4:31:37 Highlight the passage at 4:31:37

4:31:42 just got news about this. Anybody else have started? I don't know. Should I give you a message? What? Has anybody ever said stop? We're going too far now. Report an error in the passage at 4:31:42 Highlight the passage at 4:31:42

4:32:03 You kind of did, you're like I'm done. Good for you thinking about it. I think sometimes she's waiting for that. Some of you say, I think, you know, which are my limits. Report an error in the passage at 4:32:03 Highlight the passage at 4:32:03

4:32:35 All righty. Report an error in the passage at 4:32:35 Highlight the passage at 4:32:35

4:32:42 Good, darling. I'm happy to hear it. Report an error in the passage at 4:32:42 Highlight the passage at 4:32:42