Karma, Dependent Arising and Emptiness (27 May 2008)

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1:11 Think about it. Report an error in the passage at 1:11 Highlight the passage at 1:11

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2:50 we'll start off with a few minutes of meditation. Report an error in the passage at 2:50 Highlight the passage at 2:50

2:59 mean by quiet meditation. meditating quality, yes, too. Report an error in the passage at 2:59 Highlight the passage at 2:59

3:09 yourself for this evening. Report an error in the passage at 3:09 Highlight the passage at 3:09

· · · silence, 5 minutes

8:10 about evening and then next also. Report an error in the passage at 8:10 Highlight the passage at 8:10

8:19 karma and emptiness. connection between calm and emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 8:19 Highlight the passage at 8:19

8:28 one of the that I thought it would be useful to talk about this is because a few people have you'll find it quite puzzling how you can Report an error in the passage at 8:28 Highlight the passage at 8:28

8:44 Shantideva, Shantideva, His Holiness the Dalai Lama know, one which for. For a Buddhist, you know, accords with the teachings of karma, actions and their results. Report an error in the passage at 8:44 Highlight the passage at 8:44

9:16 I mean, when that becomes a problem, the way it becomes a problem, or the way people might express it is, can you hear me? Okay. Report an error in the passage at 9:16 Highlight the passage at 9:16

9:31 Actually, I've got a bit of earache, so I've got something in my ear and it's making everything sound sort of quiet on this side. But anyway, if you can hear that, that's all right. Sorry? Report an error in the passage at 9:31 Highlight the passage at 9:31

9:47 I can hear it, don't worry. I can hear myself. The question is whether everybody else can. Another question would be whether everybody else wants to. Report an error in the passage at 9:47 Highlight the passage at 9:47

10:04 You might think, well, if everything's empty, then why bother? What does it matter what you do? In actual fact, this is not a new problem. It's quite interesting in some recent teachings with Chetan Rinpoche out at Lama Medicine Buddha on the Lamrim Chemo, the Great Exposition on the Stage of the Path, Lama Tsongkhapa. Report an error in the passage at 10:04 Highlight the passage at 10:04

10:34 Lama Tsongkhapa talks about a view that became very strong in Tibet prior to his time, actually more at the time of Padmasambhava, the view of meditating or the view which involved meditating on nothingness, like just completely emptying your mind, meditating on nothingness. So according to that view, Report an error in the passage at 10:34 Highlight the passage at 10:34

11:08 The practice of, because this was, I mean, the people who were professing this view were Buddhists, so they were followers of the Buddha. So they knew that the Buddha had taught things like generosity and morality and patience and so on. But they said that until you'd realize this, until you'd achieve this kind of realization, this sort of like the ultimate truth, you needed to practice things like generosity and... Report an error in the passage at 11:08 Highlight the passage at 11:08

11:38 Once you achieve that view, once you've got that realization, you didn't need those practices anymore. They were kind of irrelevant. Report an error in the passage at 11:38 Highlight the passage at 11:38

11:50 And in actual fact, as Lama Tsongkhapa points out, this is something that the Buddha himself must have had to deal with because in one of his teachings he says there are certain people that say that you only need the practice of wisdom, you don't need the practice of generosity. generosity and compassion and so on. Report an error in the passage at 11:50 Highlight the passage at 11:50

12:13 perfections of generosity, patience, and so on. He points out that in his own case, for millions of lifetimes, he practiced billions of years. He practiced patience and he spent billions of years focusing on the practice of generosity. And he said, so was that kind of pointless? Did that do any harm? Was there any use to that? So it is an old problem. Report an error in the passage at 12:13 Highlight the passage at 12:13

12:52 Well, in one way you see when we talk about emptiness and karma, Report an error in the passage at 12:52 Highlight the passage at 12:52

13:01 Nagarjuna really speaks very clearly about this. Basically the way he says it is that because it's emptiness that makes things possible. Report an error in the passage at 13:01 Highlight the passage at 13:01

13:18 So where we tend to think if things are empty, then what matters? Does anything matter? Almost like everything becomes irrelevant. Actually, the way he explains it is that it's emptiness that makes things possible. If things were not empty, then nothing would be possible. Report an error in the passage at 13:18 Highlight the passage at 13:18

13:42 So for Report an error in the passage at 13:42 Highlight the passage at 13:42

13:47 various reasons, the more you become involved in understanding about emptiness, the more you would feel. You would become involved in the practice of karma. In other words, the more you would feel that it's important, you know, what you do is important because what you do has results that you have to face one day. Report an error in the passage at 13:47 Highlight the passage at 13:47

14:11 Anyway, Report an error in the passage at 14:11 Highlight the passage at 14:11

14:16 we'll come back to that. Report an error in the passage at 14:16 Highlight the passage at 14:16

14:21 So now up until about eight o 'clock, there are two things I want to talk about. We'll have a short break at eight o 'clock. Report an error in the passage at 14:21 Highlight the passage at 14:21

14:33 We'll see. Five or ten minutes. So there are two things I want to talk about up until that break. First of all, the four general features of karma, and then talking about who does that karma, who creates that karma. Report an error in the passage at 14:33 Highlight the passage at 14:33

14:56 People usually talk about creating karma, don't they? Don't so much talk about doing karma, creating karma. So the four general features of karma, that karma is fixed. That karma expands, that you don't experience the results of actions that you haven't done, and that once you've done an action, in other words, once you've created a karma, done an action, because karma... Report an error in the passage at 14:56 Highlight the passage at 14:56

15:28 Kenzo Rinpoche, my teacher, who's back at London Medicine Buddha, he often says karma means leka, which means like work. So the fourth one, once an action has been done, once you've done an action, then it never gets lost. So the result never gets lost. You're eventually going to have to experience the result of that. So I'll repeat those four. Report an error in the passage at 15:28 Highlight the passage at 15:28

16:00 Karma is fixed. It expands. You don't experience the results of actions you haven't done. And once an action has been done, it's never lost. Report an error in the passage at 16:00 Highlight the passage at 16:00

16:14 This is really talking about, when Report an error in the passage at 16:14 Highlight the passage at 16:14

16:22 we talk about karma and we talk about these four features, it's all really to do with our own experience of happiness and suffering. Report an error in the passage at 16:22 Highlight the passage at 16:22

16:35 So when you say that, anyway, karma is fixed. So the Report an error in the passage at 16:35 Highlight the passage at 16:35

16:47 happiness and the suffering that we experience day to day. I mean, it doesn't happen just by itself, does it? Report an error in the passage at 16:47 Highlight the passage at 16:47

17:05 Is there anything that happens just by itself? Report an error in the passage at 17:05 Highlight the passage at 17:05

17:10 I mean, could you say that there might be something that has no causes, something that happens without causes? Report an error in the passage at 17:10 Highlight the passage at 17:10

17:25 Have you ever heard of people saying that there are things that have no causes? Like what? Report an error in the passage at 17:25 Highlight the passage at 17:25

17:43 Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 17:43 Highlight the passage at 17:43

17:47 yeah. Report an error in the passage at 17:47 Highlight the passage at 17:47

17:55 Yeah, yeah, right. Well, it's very handy, of course, if you... If you already think that there's no such thing as something happening without a cause, sort of like something happening in and of itself or happening by itself or something happening for no reason. Report an error in the passage at 17:55 Highlight the passage at 17:55

18:17 I mean, we do talk about things happening for no reason. We talk about somebody, you know, somebody hit me for no reason, absolutely no reason, just hit me. We do say that, don't we? Report an error in the passage at 18:17 Highlight the passage at 18:17

18:32 I mean, do you really think that, do you never have that thought? That this, you know, there's no reason, there was no reason for that. They just did it. No reason. Is there a reason for everything and asking is there a cause for everything, is that the same thing? Report an error in the passage at 18:32 Highlight the passage at 18:32

18:55 What's the difference? Report an error in the passage at 18:55 Highlight the passage at 18:55

19:06 Reason may be implying some meaning behind it. I can't hear that. Report an error in the passage at 19:06 Highlight the passage at 19:06

19:15 I think I'm going to have to take this thing out of my ear. That's better. Now I can hear a bit better. So reason maybe implies some kind of meaning behind it, whereas cause is just like the mechanics behind what happened? Report an error in the passage at 19:15 Highlight the passage at 19:15

19:31 Like when you say reason, it could imply that there's a reason why a person did it or that there is some person behind it, like that, or some thinking that went behind it. Is that what you mean? I guess the word meaning is sort of ambiguous there, but like some kind of overall story maybe that, like you imply, if something happens, there's a reason why it happened or some kind of metaphysical reason or some kind of, you know, whereas... Report an error in the passage at 19:31 Highlight the passage at 19:31

20:03 Cause is just like, oh, it happened because, you know, mechanical thing. Yeah, I see what you mean. There are ambiguities there, aren't there? Report an error in the passage at 20:03 Highlight the passage at 20:03

20:14 Anyway, so, well, often when talking about karma, we make these parallel, we draw these sort of comparisons between karma, which is sort of like inner cause and effect, sort of cause and effect taking place on the inner world of the... of our experience, if you can say that, and then cause and effect as it's seen in the external world. Report an error in the passage at 20:14 Highlight the passage at 20:14

20:45 So an example for how cause and effect, when we talk about things happening with cause or without a cause on the external world, is like when you have a plant growing. So the plant doesn't just... appear out of nowhere one day. It grew from, I don't know, a seed or a bulb or whatever it might be. And it's like that with everything in the external world. Report an error in the passage at 20:45 Highlight the passage at 20:45

21:19 Sometimes you might feel there's no reason, but really what you're saying is you can't see what series of causes and events led up to it. That's all. If you're able to look closely enough, then you find that there's always some kind of, you know... What do you call it, like dominoes falling? There's always, you know, like even with weather systems where it's so difficult to say what's going to happen next and exactly why and how a tornado formed, for example, but nevertheless we know that... Report an error in the passage at 21:19 Highlight the passage at 21:19

21:59 You know, it happened due to things that we couldn't see and we can't see, but we know that it didn't just happen by itself. We know that there would have been this happening and that happening, this temperature raising here and going down over here and so on. We know that, don't we? So it's like that in the external world and just like that with the internal world of our experience of happiness and suffering. Report an error in the passage at 21:59 Highlight the passage at 21:59

22:25 You couldn't really put it much more clearly than the way Nagarjuna does, which is that all happiness comes from virtue and all suffering comes from non-virtue, which is another way of saying that karma is fixed. Report an error in the passage at 22:25 Highlight the passage at 22:25

22:41 Karma is fixed, that first one of the four features. Karma is fixed is from sort of like a wholesome karma or a wholesome action, you can only get happiness following, something good following. and from some unwholesome or negative or destructive or to use the term of Nagarjuna non-virtuous action karma you can only get suffering following and they never get mixed up and it's really It's not just that things don't happen without causes. Report an error in the passage at 22:41 Highlight the passage at 22:41

23:23 It's not just that... Anything which is a cause can produce anything. The cause has a potential to produce a certain type of result, right? And that's just how things are, isn't it? Like with the, I mean, again, you know, the classical example you find in the teachings. Report an error in the passage at 23:23 Highlight the passage at 23:23

23:48 Like an apple seed is going to grow into an apple tree. It's not going to grow into a pear tree. And a pear seed is going to grow into a... the teachings. Report an error in the passage at 23:48 Highlight the passage at 23:48

23:56 Pear tree, and they don't get mixed up, there's something fixed about that, isn't there? You don't get, you know, if you buy, you know, your seeds for growing, what kind of flowers grow from seeds? Report an error in the passage at 23:56 Highlight the passage at 23:56

24:15 Tulips, okay, tulips grow from seeds. Bulbs, okay, okay, bulbs, okay. So you've got some tulip bulbs, right? You know they're not going to grow into roses, for example, it never happens, does it? seats Report an error in the passage at 24:15 Highlight the passage at 24:15

24:31 So there's something about, you know, certain types of cause lead to certain types of result. Once it's a cause, it's going to lead to some kind of result, but it's not going to just lead to anything happening. It's going to have this potential to produce a certain kind of result. So just like that, there are certain kinds of action which lead to suffering and couldn't lead to anything else. Report an error in the passage at 24:31 Highlight the passage at 24:31

24:55 And there are certain kinds of action that lead to... What did I say? Suffering. So there are certain actions that lead to happiness and can't lead to anything else. They don't get mixed up. So fixed in that sense. And it's maybe from that point of view that they talk about karma being undeceiving, milua. Report an error in the passage at 24:55 Highlight the passage at 24:55

25:20 So lending milua. I learned in Milua. Actually, the word Lua sometimes means to trick or deceive something. The thing is something which isn't going to trick you or deceive you is completely reliable. You can really count on it. So karma is something you can really count on. It's completely, you know, it never gets mixed up. Report an error in the passage at 25:20 Highlight the passage at 25:20

25:44 It's always going to lead to certain kinds of results according to its particular kind of potential. So the actions which are... Those actions which lead to happiness are called virtue. Those actions or karmas that lead to suffering are called non-virtue. And generally speaking, how you can tell the difference is it seems to do, you could put it this way, things which are done sort of with some kind of selfish motivation, right, that's going to lead to suffering. Report an error in the passage at 25:44 Highlight the passage at 25:44

26:21 So that's the kind of action that's referred to as, And then something that's done without that kind of selfish motivation, with more altruistic motivation, that's going to lead to happiness. And so that kind of action is called virtue, basically. And Report an error in the passage at 26:21 Highlight the passage at 26:21

26:51 that's fixed. And that's something you can count on. That's something you can really rely on. Report an error in the passage at 26:51 Highlight the passage at 26:51

27:08 What about little babies dying or good people? And what about evil people being happy? That's really important. That's something you can make sense of in the context of past and future lives. Then you can make sense. Otherwise, you can't make sense of it at all. I don't think so anyway. um. Report an error in the passage at 27:08 Highlight the passage at 27:08

27:41 So maybe if I can get through these just a few moments on this point, then I want to talk about the one who does those actions. And in that context, we can talk a little bit about, we can sort of come back to this a bit more, right? Yeah? Can Report an error in the passage at 27:41 Highlight the passage at 27:41

28:05 you expound a little bit on the idea of past lives, for example, when I hear that often in the... Yeah, that's in my next thing. So like... Particularly in conjunction to her point, I'm wondering whether or not you mean by past lives, whether that can also include within the set past actions, for example, of a particular parent or an individual who may then suffer something like a child dying. Report an error in the passage at 28:05 Highlight the passage at 28:05

28:34 So can you maybe talk a little bit more about whether past lives is relevant to that? Yeah, I think it is entirely. The Tibetan Report an error in the passage at 28:34 Highlight the passage at 28:34

28:50 monks and nuns. Who have endured huge suffering. Yeah. How do you look at karma related to that? Okay. So, things don't always go according to plan, do they? Report an error in the passage at 28:50 Highlight the passage at 28:50

29:08 Let me Report an error in the passage at 29:08 Highlight the passage at 29:08

29:15 just run through these four very briefly and then we'll go on to the next thing and then I think that that would be quite interesting. So, karma expands means that from small actions, huge results. Report an error in the passage at 29:15 Highlight the passage at 29:15

29:32 follow like in the world where you get great big tree growing from a small seed Report an error in the passage at 29:32 Highlight the passage at 29:32

29:43 The third one, that's pretty straightforward. Just like if you've got something happening, there has to have been a cause. If there isn't a cause, then the result won't happen. It's as simple as that really. Report an error in the passage at 29:43 Highlight the passage at 29:43

29:58 If you don't create the cause for suffering, you won't experience suffering. If you don't create the cause for happiness, you won't experience happiness. It's as simple as that. Then, once an action has been done, it's never lost. And this really, again, only makes sense in the context of something reaching beyond this life, so future lives and past lives and so on. Report an error in the passage at 29:58 Highlight the passage at 29:58

30:27 So what this means is that... no matter how many years my Report an error in the passage at 30:27 Highlight the passage at 30:27

30:57 The non-virtuous ones, you can purify those. There are ways of purifying them. And in the case of positive actions, if they haven't been dedicated, as they say, then can be destroyed by anger. Getting angry, that can destroy the potential of that action to produce happiness. Just like in the case of the seed. That seed does have the potential to grow into a particular kind of... Report an error in the passage at 30:57 Highlight the passage at 30:57

31:27 plant but if you burn it or if you you know smash it with a hammer it's not going to grow into any kind of plant is it? So then, as for who does those actions and who experiences those results, that's the next thing I wanted to talk about. Report an error in the passage at 31:27 Highlight the passage at 31:27

31:50 So now, one thing we can say, I mean this is something which has concerned people for centuries, hasn't it? Maybe millennia. What is the nature of this person that is living in this world, has to experience this world, experience various kinds of suffering and happiness and so on, and acting in the world. Report an error in the passage at 31:50 Highlight the passage at 31:50

32:14 So it's Report an error in the passage at 32:14 Highlight the passage at 32:14

32:19 like I heard this incredible Lama, Kittisen Shet Rinpoche saying one time, he said it's like if you're in a crowd, know, you're in a crowd. And you're cheering, everybody's cheering, you know, go on, go on, you know, like just everybody's cheering with their voice. Somebody comes up to you and says, what are you cheering for? Report an error in the passage at 32:19 Highlight the passage at 32:19

32:44 And you say, I don't know, just cheering. So it's like that, you know, we spend our, it's true, isn't it? I mean, we spend our whole lives thinking, I like this. I don't like that. This is my friend. This is my enemy. I want this. I want that. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. It's, you know, I mean. Report an error in the passage at 32:44 Highlight the passage at 32:44

33:06 That's our whole life, isn't it? But if somebody were to say to you, this I that you keep talking about and that actually your whole life revolves around, what is that I? And if you can't answer what it is, it's like the person in the crowd who's cheering and can't say why they're cheering. It's a bit like the Wizard of Oz, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 33:06 Highlight the passage at 33:06

33:30 I mean, you know, it's like you spend your whole life working for this person without ever knowing who they are, kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 33:30 Highlight the passage at 33:30

33:40 So one thing we can say is we have a body and we have a mind, that's for sure. So this body, actually even the body, of course we talk about the mind having some kind of continuity that stretches out before this life and after this life, of course you're aware of that, but if you think about it, even the body has that kind of continuity, doesn't it? Report an error in the passage at 33:40 Highlight the passage at 33:40

34:03 I was just thinking it would be quite interesting if you could... Sort of plot the history of all of the molecules and atoms that our physical, present physical body is composed of, sort of over the centuries even maybe, or maybe at least, you know, for maybe a century before we, you know, we got to this point. Report an error in the passage at 34:03 Highlight the passage at 34:03

34:27 I mean, you know, I mean, I see even if you just think about what's going to be part of your body, that there are many things that are like... Miles away from here at the moment, right, which tomorrow are going to be part of your body and you're going to be thinking I about. It's quite strange, isn't it? So, you know, you can just imagine, you know, like there's these atoms and molecules sort of like here and there in the world and gradually, you know, sort of getting towards, well, your mother and father and then there's this, you know, the baby body which grows and then there's... Report an error in the passage at 34:27 Highlight the passage at 34:27

35:04 Actually, of course, there's... Lots of coming and going all throughout the life, isn't there? Things are sort of like coming in, going out, coming in, going out, floating around. We breathe in it. I mean, don't they say that most of the dust at home is just bits of human body? That's what you're breathing in, you know? Report an error in the passage at 35:04 Highlight the passage at 35:04

35:24 When you sneeze, it's because somebody's body got up your nose. Report an error in the passage at 35:24 Highlight the passage at 35:24

35:34 And I'm sure I read, I'm pretty sure this was probably in Bill Bryson, so I don't know if we have to accept what he says, but I'm sure he said, I'm sure it's one of his books where he says something like, you know, if after a certain number of years have passed, like everybody's got a little bit of Mao Zedong in their body kind of thing, you know, because things kind of move around and spread out and like that. Report an error in the passage at 35:34 Highlight the passage at 35:34

36:03 But of course, that's not just like something that you breathe in. It's, you know, maybe you've eaten it, something you've eaten, and then it's sort of become absorbed into your body. And now you're thinking, I. that. Report an error in the passage at 36:03 Highlight the passage at 36:03

36:16 About something that Mao Zedong was thinking, I, so many decades ago or whenever, Hitler or whoever. Report an error in the passage at 36:16 Highlight the passage at 36:16

36:30 That's quite strange, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 36:30 Highlight the passage at 36:30

36:40 So the body, anyway, it does have that continuity, doesn't it? The body isn't something that started at this life out of nowhere and then at the end of this life suddenly doesn't exist anymore. Just like actually all through our life the body is... Bits of the body have been coming from here and there and going off again. Then at the end of this life, it's just a continuation of that, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 36:40 Highlight the passage at 36:40

37:08 The body just disperses. The bits of the body go here and there. So it's like that also with the mind. So when we talk about, in Buddhism you have this idea of beginningless mind, it's not just mind which is beginningless, it's everything is beginningless really. Report an error in the passage at 37:08 Highlight the passage at 37:08

37:30 So, well, there are... If you think that everything else is beginningness, then why would the mind not be beginningness? That's one way of looking at it. Why would it not be beginningness and endless? Report an error in the passage at 37:30 Highlight the passage at 37:30

37:52 Yeah? Sorry? Report an error in the passage at 37:52 Highlight the passage at 37:52

37:59 Yeah, at least so that I can hear it. Yeah. But what if you're not somebody who has... Who believes that. Who acquired that, yeah, acquired that belief. Somebody who can't think that way because of... Because of another way of thinking, particularly the fact that if everything is not beginningless or if you have an understanding of everything but you can't quite get how everything is beginningless, what then? Report an error in the passage at 37:59 Highlight the passage at 37:59

38:34 What do you mean by that? Well, what I mean is what if you don't think that everything is beginningless? Well, I'm not saying things are beginningless. Let me rephrase that. How does one begin to think how everything is beginningless? Report an error in the passage at 38:34 Highlight the passage at 38:34

38:53 Well, maybe by thinking about how, I mean, there's the beginninglessness of physical things and then there's the beginningness of the mind. I mean, you Report an error in the passage at 38:53 Highlight the passage at 38:53

39:18 can see it with physical things. Or can you? Because you might think, well, yeah, you can go back to the beginning of this world, but then what about before that? Or what about before the universe created? I mean, in Buddhism they do have this explanation of space particles and how everything comes out of those, so there is still a continuity back into sort of like empty space. Report an error in the passage at 39:18 Highlight the passage at 39:18

39:46 But as far as the mind is concerned, it's almost more obvious. But only when you've really got this, if you've got a strong sense, whether it's based on just, I don't know, a hunch or whether it's based on some real reasoning or experience or whatever it might be, if you have a strong sense of there being a mind which is very different from the physical body, in other words, of a mind which is not a physical thing, Report an error in the passage at 39:46 Highlight the passage at 39:46

40:21 you can make sense of the argument that says that Report an error in the passage at 40:21 Highlight the passage at 40:21

40:26 Our mind, when we came out of our mother's womb, the first moment of the mind of this life in that sense, once you come out into the world from your mother's womb, that is preceded by some prior moment of consciousness because that's the nature of consciousness. If you think about the way that your mind works now, You can see that every thought that we have, probably, I mean maybe it's more difficult with some thoughts than others, but anyway, generally speaking, every thought that we have and every perception we have can only really be understood as a development of some earlier thought, an earlier experience. Report an error in the passage at 40:26 Highlight the passage at 40:26

41:18 We can see how that works sort of day to day during our lives as we go along at the moment, right? And if you start thinking backwards, you can see that there is this continuity going back to your childhood and maybe back to your earliest memory. And then you can see how it completely makes sense in terms of that sort of period that you can remember. Report an error in the passage at 41:18 Highlight the passage at 41:18

41:44 Then you start asking yourself, well, even though I can't remember before that, assuming that you've got an earliest memory that you can think of, that doesn't mean to say that it should be any different. Report an error in the passage at 41:44 Highlight the passage at 41:44

41:57 So let's say I can remember my first, let's say I do have a memory that I can sort of think of as being my first memory, right? So that first memory has got to be preceded by a prior moment of mind or consciousness. Or another way of putting it is, why wouldn't it be preceded by a prior moment of... Consciousness. Just because I can't remember it doesn't mean to say that it's not there. And actually if I think, in my own case, there's a memory which I suppose is my first memory, the first thing I can remember. Report an error in the passage at 41:57 Highlight the passage at 41:57

42:43 I know that it's a memory that includes my mother and I know from that memory that she was familiar to me. So I know from that that this first memory of this life. preceded by some prior moment And you can sort of follow the logic of that up until the first moment when you come out of your mother's womb. And then, you know, you can sort of gradually start thinking, well, you know, why, what reason is there for saying that there wouldn't be a prior moment to that? Report an error in the passage at 42:43 Highlight the passage at 42:43

43:17 And a prior moment to that, right back to conception. Of course, it's all a bit vague because we're talking about things that most of us can't remember. But... I know from one of my feelings about this is that even though I know of course that I've grown up during the years and my experience and my way of thinking about things has changed and my body has changed, there's something very, there's something sort of like almost the same about this mind and that mind in terms of somehow the wish for happiness and not to suffer and just... Report an error in the passage at 43:17 Highlight the passage at 43:17

43:58 The feeling of consciousness or mind hasn't changed. You often hear people saying, I'm 60 years old but I feel the same as when I was young. Inside I feel the same as when I was young. That's what they're talking about. The mind in a sense isn't something which ages. There's something which is the same. There's something very much the same about your mind when you're a very young child and now. Report an error in the passage at 43:58 Highlight the passage at 43:58

44:29 Of course, you know, maybe you've had all sorts of happiness in between times and all sorts of suffering in between times, but there is something, I mean, that's how I feel, and maybe people are going to have different opinions, but that's how I feel about it. It's like, you know, my mind didn't get bigger, physically bigger or smaller. It didn't get kind of like your physical body does, you know, it gets bigger and then actually gradually starts shrinking even as you're getting older. Report an error in the passage at 44:29 Highlight the passage at 44:29

44:55 And, you know, you're... Your body starts to get wrinkled, but your mind, you know, some people even feel that their mind seems to get younger. So for me it seems like, you know, it doesn't matter that I was a baby that couldn't walk. The mind was still there, and that mind must have had a previous moment, and that moment had a previous moment. Just like right now. Why would it be different? Report an error in the passage at 44:55 Highlight the passage at 44:55

45:22 My mind at the moment, I can see. Couldn't possibly be as it is without having had all sorts of prior experiences, so without prior moments. So why would it not be the same for the mind of the baby that's just been conceived? Anyway, just to give you the shape of the argument, it's just something to think about, right? Report an error in the passage at 45:22 Highlight the passage at 45:22

45:45 This is the way the argument goes. Just like you can trace it back to the beginning of this life, our mind, That first moment of the mind when you've just been conceived must also have a prior moment, otherwise it couldn't exist. Anyway, that's the challenge. Where would that mind have come from if not from a previous moment of mind? And in fact, why go to the lengths of finding some kind of complicated explanation about where that mind comes from when there's a simple explanation which is that... Report an error in the passage at 45:45 Highlight the passage at 45:45

46:24 There was a previous moment of mind before that. Report an error in the passage at 46:24 Highlight the passage at 46:24

46:33 This is quite interesting, isn't it? It really stops you in your tracks. You can't just speak, can you? You have to think first. Report an error in the passage at 46:33 Highlight the passage at 46:33

46:48 There's a difference between... time and the mind, and impermanent, that nothing is permanent. If nothing is impermanent... Report an error in the passage at 46:48 Highlight the passage at 46:48

46:49 the mind contradictory? There's a difference between... Permanent, which usually, this is a word that's commonly used to translate the Tibetan term takpa, that word permanent. And it might, I mean, some people translate it maybe a bit more accurately as static, unchanging, because permanent does, so permanent doesn't mean eternal anyway. Report an error in the passage at 46:49 Highlight the passage at 46:49

47:14 This word takpa doesn't mean eternal. It's different. Something can be changing all the time, but still go on forever. and therefore be eternal and probably we would feel like saying it's permanent probably we feel like saying that the mind it goes on forever and it's always been there therefore it's permanent so what that means is that maybe the word permanent is an unfortunate choice of translation terms for the word and so in some some translators use the word So something can go on indefinitely. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 47:14 Highlight the passage at 47:14

47:48 And things, it changes, but it goes on indefinitely. Yes, yes. The mind being a prime example of it. But you can also see, even with this, you know, never mind about the mind, which is something you can't see. Your own physical body, right, it's permanent in the sense that it lasts your whole life. You know, all through your life you've got a body. Report an error in the passage at 47:48 Highlight the passage at 47:48

48:10 But it's changing all the time, isn't it? I mean, most people, when they say permanent, it doesn't need to be eternal, right? Most people, if you talk about having a permanent job, if it lasts 30 years, that's permanent, right? Now, with our physical body, you know, you have it hopefully a lot longer than that. Report an error in the passage at 48:10 Highlight the passage at 48:10

48:26 So it's permanent. But it's changing all the time. I've been really struggling with this by the use of the word mind stream. Yeah. And is that referring to beginningless time, essentially, of the same mind? When people talk about a mind stream, well, it depends because when you use the word stream, it gives you this idea of continuity and so we can talk about a continuity of mind in that sense. Report an error in the passage at 48:26 Highlight the passage at 48:26

48:54 Sometimes people use the word mind stream, you know, like there's your mind stream, my mind stream. I think stream has got this idea of continuity when we're talking about the mind changing moment by moment but carrying on. Like your own body is changing all the time and yet it carries on in a sense, doesn't it? So I think it's got to do with that sort of like continuity of the mind, the stream of consciousness, the continuity of consciousness or mind. Report an error in the passage at 48:54 Highlight the passage at 48:54

49:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You just clarified the issue of mind and consciousness, which certainly we have to make that... Discrimination or at least that differentiation, we lump them together or they are separate. Because even for instance consciousness, when we're talking about consciousness or being aware of a three-year-old, four-year-old or a two-year-old, there's a point at which the consciousness is not necessarily verbal. Report an error in the passage at 49:18 Highlight the passage at 49:18

50:01 It's not verbal. It's not verbal because we don't even have words. But nonetheless, we do have some kinesthetic memories of our childhood experiences. It is not registered necessarily at the verbal level, in other words, because we don't have the words when we are babies, but we do have a body that can register the experience of warmth, care or even hate from someone. Report an error in the passage at 50:01 Highlight the passage at 50:01

50:29 So that would be with consciousness and at least for me I try to make the difference between consciousness and mind. So you're saying that that baby that can't speak has consciousness but not mind or mind but no consciousness. That's what I'm trying to clarify. Well, actually, although I'm sure it is important to make this kind of distinction, basically, you know, I mean, I guess just lacking the kind of education that's required for this. Report an error in the passage at 50:29 Highlight the passage at 50:29

50:58 You know, you've got several words in Tibetan which mean pretty well the same thing. There may be slightly different connotations, but they're all talking about the same thing, which is sometimes described as... I mean, I'm probably not going to make a good job of translating that, but that means clear. Report an error in the passage at 50:58 Highlight the passage at 50:58

51:24 And this clear can be understood in different ways, but you can think of it as meaning maybe like... Non-physical, so lacking the qualities of tangibility and visibility and audibility and so on, not having those physical qualities that can be perceived by the senses, so that's the meaning of the word clear. Report an error in the passage at 51:24 Highlight the passage at 51:24

51:45 And then Rigpa is sometimes translated as awareness. So the thing is what we need is a word that you can apply to the... Report an error in the passage at 51:45 Highlight the passage at 51:45

52:00 The baby's mind or consciousness, can you use the word awareness? Even though that child may not be able to verbalize things, can you still say that they have awareness? Okay, so whether you call it mind or consciousness, generally speaking we have this idea of clarity and awareness. So whether you want to use the word consciousness or mind, I'm not sure which is best, but I can see your point, you know, that it would be better to be more precise. So would it be good to say, so for something which we can say all of us have, including animals and so on, like babies and whatever, can you use the word consciousness? Report an error in the passage at 52:00 Highlight the passage at 52:00

52:50 Would you like to use the word consciousness but not mind or mind but not consciousness? Because as far as the Tibetan teachers are concerned anyway... We all have mind, we all have consciousness, we all have awareness, we all have cognition. That's something that we all have. All living beings have that. Report an error in the passage at 52:50 Highlight the passage at 52:50

53:11 You're asking or we are debating on it or we are just posting it? You can debate, you can meditate on it, you can talk about it, you can do anything. Well, because I was thinking, do we have 52 functions of the mind? As I understand, mind is defined by the two 52 functions or mind has 52 attributes within Tibetan thinking. Any of those attributes, where are they, where or when are they manifested? Report an error in the passage at 53:11 Highlight the passage at 53:11

53:41 Are they manifested in what continuum within the life of someone? I can see them at this age. These are all the 52 possibilities. I mean, they're not going to be all there at once, that's for sure. Because some of them completely clash with each other. They couldn't possibly be present all at the same time. Like anger and love, anger and compassion, for example. Report an error in the passage at 53:41 Highlight the passage at 53:41

54:10 Some of them are completely incompatible anyway. Ignorance and wisdom. Report an error in the passage at 54:10 Highlight the passage at 54:10

54:17 And then we can even say that not necessarily everybody is going to have all of them, even in one lifetime. Report an error in the passage at 54:17 Highlight the passage at 54:17

54:31 I mean there are some people that maybe transcended really negative thoughts so then they wouldn't have all 52 and some I maybe Report an error in the passage at 54:31 Highlight the passage at 54:31

54:45 Some of us might find it difficult to all the positive ones happening in our own mind. Report an error in the passage at 54:45 Highlight the passage at 54:45

54:58 anyway, so then you see, to bring this back to... Actually, we'll have a break there. We told the coffee shop there's a break at 8 o 'clock. So we'll have... Is 10 minutes okay? Report an error in the passage at 54:58 Highlight the passage at 54:58

· · · silence, 2 minutes

56:42 I mean, you know, this is made for people with a mouth and a forehead. Report an error in the passage at 56:42 Highlight the passage at 56:42

56:54 Is that Report an error in the passage at 56:54 Highlight the passage at 56:54

57:03 what's happened? It's twisted? I don't feel I should twist it in case I break it. Report an error in the passage at 57:03 Highlight the passage at 57:03

57:18 Oh, right, yeah, you're the guy, you're the man. go grab his clothes? Report an error in the passage at 57:18 Highlight the passage at 57:18

· · · silence, 1 minute

56:47 right. Report an error in the passage at 56:47 Highlight the passage at 56:47

· · · silence, 1 minute

57:21 Can I do that? Report an error in the passage at 57:21 Highlight the passage at 57:21

57:49 How's that? Hey. Report an error in the passage at 57:49 Highlight the passage at 57:49

58:10 Okay, so the body's beginning this, the mind's beginning this, so that's sorted out. I Report an error in the passage at 58:10 Highlight the passage at 58:10

58:22 get that there's a cause, but a body ends at a certain point, and when it diffuses, it's no longer a body. It's like dinosaurs. They're no longer around. And also, the whole idea, you said... Well, people remember consciousness, but like atheists and lots of other people in the world that are pretty intelligent believe, you know, in one lifetime. Report an error in the passage at 58:22 Highlight the passage at 58:22

58:53 So it's not a universal belief in that. No, wait a minute. What did I say? Basically, you took your art, you were talking about consciousness and that we remember, you know, we remember back to a certain point, therefore we can assume consciousness from another lifetime. And it's a belief and it's a belief I believe in, but I don't think you can assume it the way you did. Well, if it is a belief, then it is something that you assume. Report an error in the passage at 58:53 Highlight the passage at 58:53

59:23 I think what I'm saying is that's the reasoning that you find in the Buddhist teachings. But whether a person accepts it or not, of course, is another matter. Report an error in the passage at 59:23 Highlight the passage at 59:23

59:41 Anyway, now, so then the, I think... Uh. Report an error in the passage at 59:41 Highlight the passage at 59:41

· · · silence, 1 minute

59:48 You can spend a little bit of time thinking about sort of finishing off the point I wanted to look at before the break. So the thing is, as I was saying, the question arises, what is the nature of the person that creates karma and experiences results, does things and experiences results? Report an error in the passage at 59:48 Highlight the passage at 59:48

1:00:20 We looked, I mean, you know, of course there's a limit to how much we can say in such a short time and anyway, I mean, I'm not trying to say that I know it all and haven't got time to tell you everything. I don't mean to say that at all. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:20 Highlight the passage at 1:00:20

1:00:40 Anyway, that's sort of just, you know, I mean, of course, you know, in a short period like this, you know, you sort of find yourself just going over things just briefly. But in any case, so we've looked a little bit about, a little bit at the nature of the body. A little bit about the nature of the mind, but now, what is the connection between ourselves and our body and mind? Report an error in the passage at 1:00:40 Highlight the passage at 1:00:40

1:01:10 I mean, you know, a person is not their body, right? I mean, we talk about people identifying with their body, but anyway, you're not your body, are you? Are you your mind? I'm not sure about that either. Generally speaking, there is this idea that somehow the... The body and mind, I think you can say, are the basis of imputation for the person. It's in the sense that it's sort of, it's in relation to our body and mind that we think I this and that. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:10 Highlight the passage at 1:01:10

1:01:52 Just like, you know, when your body is ill, then you think I'm ill. When your mind is happy, you think I'm happy. When your mind is unhappy, you think I'm unhappy. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:52 Highlight the passage at 1:01:52

1:02:07 somehow know Everything we think about I and I this and I that is all a sort of a reflection of something that's going on in the body and mind. It's through something going on in the body and mind that we get that thought coming into our heads. I'm happy, I'm unhappy, I'm ugly, I'm beautiful, I'm this, I'm that. Report an error in the passage at 1:02:07 Highlight the passage at 1:02:07

1:02:32 I Report an error in the passage at 1:02:32 Highlight the passage at 1:02:32

1:02:46 personally get that. I hear what you're saying and I get it that I identify with my body and mind, but that's so strong, it happens so intensely that even the awareness of that identification brings me to the question, well, what Report an error in the passage at 1:02:46 Highlight the passage at 1:02:46

1:03:15 else does Buddhism have to offer in order to build some sort of tenacity or... or stamina to identify with something else that will therefore lead us to less suffering so that I don't have to suffer. I mean, is that... Here I'm not talking about exactly how you perceive yourself, I'm talking about the actual relationship between ourselves and our body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:15 Highlight the passage at 1:03:15

1:03:41 I'm not talking about at the moment about any kind of problem that might arise in terms of how we... view ourselves I'm talking about just you know generally speaking what is the nature of the person and the connection between the person and their body I don't think we learn to identify with anything else. I think even in our wisest moments in the West, we don't learn to really identify with anything else. Report an error in the passage at 1:03:41 Highlight the passage at 1:03:41

1:04:06 Everything is filtered through our identification with body and mind. But that's okay. That's quite normal, I think. But it's not the right view. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:06 Highlight the passage at 1:04:06

1:04:17 Yeah, no, it's just a fact. It's a fact. That's a fact. There is this connection between our body and mind. And there's nothing wrong with the thought, I'm ill, that arises due to the fact that there's something physically wrong with your body. There's no problem with that. That's just how things are. No problem with that. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:17 Highlight the passage at 1:04:17

1:04:49 That's a different matter. What you're talking about is a... When you have some misperception or some warped idea about yourself, maybe in relation to your body and mind, like for example, we could say that such an idea would be the sense that there is an I which is independent of one's body and mind, which certain philosophical schools do believe in. Report an error in the passage at 1:04:49 Highlight the passage at 1:04:49

1:05:18 Then things could go wrong. It kind of makes sense, doesn't it, if you have a warped idea about things that then everything that's based upon that is also going to be a little bit warped and crooked and things are not going to go right, isn't it? But generally speaking, you know, there is, I mean, we could put it this way. It's not just ourselves who are merely imputed on our body and mind in the sense that there is no separate I that exists independent of our body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:18 Highlight the passage at 1:05:18

1:05:49 Rather, there is... We exist totally depending upon our body and mind. It's not just us. Even a fully enlightened being is exactly the same thing for a fully enlightened being. Report an error in the passage at 1:05:49 Highlight the passage at 1:05:49

1:06:01 Like Buddha Shakyamuni, he also had a body and mind like we have a body and mind. And in some sense, his body and mind was the basis of imputing Buddha Shakyamuni in the same way that our body and mind is. Our basis of imputation. And that's the technical term, right? Basis of imputation. What it means is, like I said, it's through your body and your mind appearing to you in such and such a way that you have this thought, I'm happy, I'm unhappy, I'm sick, I'm well and so on. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:01 Highlight the passage at 1:06:01

1:06:41 And there's nothing wrong with that. That's not a problem. That's just a description of what the relationship is between... ourselves as individuals and our body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:06:41 Highlight the passage at 1:06:41

1:06:54 saying it's true or not it's something for you to explore isn't it it's for all of us to explore when I'm saying when I say this is what I'm saying I'm not just saying something that I'm making up I'm you what I think that it says in the Buddhist teachings so it's something that I'm exploring also of Report an error in the passage at 1:06:54 Highlight the passage at 1:06:54

1:07:28 do you think that... What's the relevance of that then? This idea that there is that connection between ourselves and our body and mind. We are not our bodies, we are not our mind and yet everything we can say about ourselves is in a sense a mere reflection of something which is taking place in our body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:28 Highlight the passage at 1:07:28

1:07:57 Why did you say we are not our body, we are not our mind? Why can't we be? Good question. So why are we not, are we our body? Can we, you know, what do you think? We are our body. What does that mean to say that you are your body? If you're your body, you can't be your mind, right? You can be both. Report an error in the passage at 1:07:57 Highlight the passage at 1:07:57

1:08:31 Yeah, Report an error in the passage at 1:08:31 Highlight the passage at 1:08:31

1:08:45 I think there's, where I have difficulty, our body and our mind. They're connected. Report an error in the passage at 1:08:45 Highlight the passage at 1:08:45

1:08:49 With that is that, because Report an error in the passage at 1:08:49 Highlight the passage at 1:08:49

1:08:55 the body is something physical and the mind is not physical, so something can't be both physical and non-physical, can it? Report an error in the passage at 1:08:55 Highlight the passage at 1:08:55

1:09:05 That may be the case. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:05 Highlight the passage at 1:09:05

1:09:11 sense of self. kinds of stroke, they don't. So there's of the brain that self that may be the case But still I have this question, is it possible for something to be both physical and not physical? It is. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:11 Highlight the passage at 1:09:11

1:09:35 Give me an example apart from the person. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:35 Highlight the passage at 1:09:35

1:09:42 When Report an error in the passage at 1:09:42 Highlight the passage at 1:09:42

1:09:46 the Lama empowers a sense of beads. A what? The malas. Oh yeah, yeah. So the mala is both the beads that are physical. But it's also the energy and the empowerment went into it that is not physical. Report an error in the passage at 1:09:46 Highlight the passage at 1:09:46

1:10:12 What's wrong with saying that the mala is the beads but the beads are blessed? That's what I just said in a different way. It's how you look at it and how you see it. I see that the blessing is something that is not physical but that is connected to the beads. The way my mind is not physical that's connected to my body. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:12 Highlight the passage at 1:10:12

1:10:44 But then isn't there the other school of thought that could say that the bee is the manifestation of the blessing? Well, you can say all sorts of things. I mean, you know, is the mala a physical thing or not a physical thing? I think that if it is a physical thing, then whoever looks at it is going to know that it's a physical thing. It's not just going to be a question of opinion. Report an error in the passage at 1:10:44 Highlight the passage at 1:10:44

1:11:14 I mean, there are certain things, it's true. I mean, like friend and enemy. I mean, one person... can be perceived as an enemy one person and another person is going to perceive the same person as a friend. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:14 Highlight the passage at 1:11:14

1:11:29 is that person both a friend and an enemy? Report an error in the passage at 1:11:29 Highlight the passage at 1:11:29

1:11:34 So maybe there are some things like that, aren't there? You're not allowed to talk without a microphone. because it becomes a weapon doesn't it Report an error in the passage at 1:11:34 Highlight the passage at 1:11:34

1:11:48 I think it was, I heard one, somebody quote, The Dalai Lama once and say that the Dalai Lama refers to the Chinese, my friends, the Chinese, the enemy. So that would be, I pose that to you as combining the two. Yeah. The thing is, in a way, I wonder, I mean, this might be something a bit different because, you know, you can say somebody is an enemy simply because they're trying to harm you. Report an error in the passage at 1:11:48 Highlight the passage at 1:11:48

1:12:24 It doesn't necessarily reflect. reflect your feelings towards the person, does it? It's just a term that describes what they're doing. if you start hitting me, can say you're harming me. It's just a conventional way of describing what's going on, isn't it? And I can say that you're my enemy, that doesn't me to say that I hate you necessarily. Report an error in the passage at 1:12:24 Highlight the passage at 1:12:24

1:12:47 I don't know if that's the same as something being physical and not physical. thing is, is something Maybe this is just sort of like a question of how the things are structured in Buddhist thought. So one of the things that the young monks first start to debate is colors. So they have this debate that sort of centers on the question, is a white horse white? You heard of that, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:12:47 Highlight the passage at 1:12:47

1:13:29 Here's a white horse white. So, of course, in the beginning you feel like saying, of course a white horse is white. If it's not white, then what is it? You can say it's black. So what this argument is about is that a horse is actually considered to be a person or a being, right? Report an error in the passage at 1:13:29 Highlight the passage at 1:13:29

1:13:56 And white is a color. So white is something which is uniquely... An object of visual perception. Report an error in the passage at 1:13:56 Highlight the passage at 1:13:56

1:14:08 So, and in fact I suppose like in maybe in physical terms you could describe it in terms of a sort of, what do you call it, a frequency of light or something like that, right? And a horse isn't that. A horse can't be that. A horse is a person. A horse is a person that has a particular kind of body and in the case of a white horse, then, it's a body that's sending out white. Report an error in the passage at 1:14:08 Highlight the passage at 1:14:08

1:14:42 Hair, fur, fur hair, what do they have, hair or fur? Huh? Report an error in the passage at 1:14:42 Highlight the passage at 1:14:42

1:14:52 right. white mane, a white tail, a white of So now, Report an error in the passage at 1:14:52 Highlight the passage at 1:14:52

1:15:06 so it has hair. it's not fur it's hair isn't it Report an error in the passage at 1:15:06 Highlight the passage at 1:15:06

1:15:12 hair which is white-colored. is sort of the conclusion they come to. The horse itself is not white because it's not a color. Report an error in the passage at 1:15:12 Highlight the passage at 1:15:12

1:15:23 it was white, it would have to be a color. That's how that sort of thought is structured. see the point? So, what's that got to do with anything? Report an error in the passage at 1:15:23 Highlight the passage at 1:15:23

1:15:40 I mean, although I might not be able to think about why it is the case, but generally speaking, if you say something is physical, okay, then, well, one way of looking at it is this. If it's physical, then it's got to be an object of one of the five senses, right, five sense consciousnesses. If it's going to be an object of one of those sense consciousnesses, it's got to be either a color or it's got to be... Report an error in the passage at 1:15:40 Highlight the passage at 1:15:40

1:16:14 A colour or shape, some kind of visible form, or it's got to be a sound, or it's got to be a smell, or it's got to be a taste, or it's got to be some kind of tangible. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:14 Highlight the passage at 1:16:14

1:16:24 So, in just the same way that you wouldn't want to say that a white horse is a colour, and that's the reason why they end up conceding that a white horse isn't white, which sounds a little bit... Strange, but actually if you think about it, yeah, you start to be able to see, well, yes, okay, it's white-colored. It has a white color, but it itself isn't white, because if it's white, it's going to be a color. Report an error in the passage at 1:16:24 Highlight the passage at 1:16:24

1:16:52 So in the same way, the person, if it were physical, it would have to be either a color, a color or shape, or it would have to be a sound or a smell or a taste or tangible. And it's none of those, because it's not a physical thing. But it has... a physical it has a physical side you could say in other words the person has a body what's wrong with just saying that person has a body and isn't his body Report an error in the passage at 1:16:52 Highlight the passage at 1:16:52

1:17:18 I have a body but I'm not my body. I have a mind but I'm not my mind. I am something which is somehow connected with both of them. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:18 Highlight the passage at 1:17:18

1:17:29 This is going to be the last point. What I was Report an error in the passage at 1:17:29 Highlight the passage at 1:17:29

1:17:37 thinking if you are, because the question you were asking is the man. The mind and the body, what is the relationship? Would that help to put it in the context of relatively there is a body, as well as relatively there is a mind. Yes. The absolute, there is no other body, no other mind, nor an I, in that sense. That helps when you're looking at things on an ultimate level, yes, then on an ultimate level there's no body, no mind, no person, no nothing. Report an error in the passage at 1:17:37 Highlight the passage at 1:17:37

1:18:08 But conventionally... There is a body and there is a mind and there is a person and it's quite important to be able to understand the connection between those. So that's where I want to stop on. I mean, you know, next week, of course, we're going to come back to karma and we're going to come back to emptiness. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:08 Highlight the passage at 1:18:08

1:18:30 But this is really actually, you know, Khenpo Rinpoche Jambhate Chokha at Land of Medicine Buddha taught, gave 29 lectures about emptiness, right, at Land of Medicine Buddha over a course of about... Two years, wasn't it? 2006 until 2008. He finished at the end of last year, didn't he? That year and a half it took him to teach. Anyway, I found that the most difficult thing, the most difficult thing, and I can say still I haven't really been able to see this one, is the connection between the person and the body and mind. Report an error in the passage at 1:18:30 Highlight the passage at 1:18:30

1:19:13 The way in which the body and mind can be considered the basis of imputation of the... This is the most difficult thing. The reasoning that says everything is empty, the reasoning that says that everything is empty because it's a dependent arising. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:13 Highlight the passage at 1:19:13

1:19:32 I'm not saying it's easy, but it's relatively straightforward. There's a lot of things about emptiness that's really straightforward. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:32 Highlight the passage at 1:19:32

1:19:43 When you say that things are empty, it doesn't mean that they don't exist, it just means that they're empty means empty of. rising Report an error in the passage at 1:19:43 Highlight the passage at 1:19:43

1:19:50 Self-existence, existence from their own side. Why? Because they're dependent. If something is dependent, it doesn't exist from its own side. It exists depending upon other things. That's the meaning of saying that they're empty, they're not independent. Some of those things are very straightforward, but the connection between the person and their body and mind or in what sense the body and mind or the five aggregates are the base of imputation of the person, I find this the most difficult thing to understand. Report an error in the passage at 1:19:50 Highlight the passage at 1:19:50

1:20:17 you understand. So then, anyway, what I wanted to finish off with is Report an error in the passage at 1:20:17 Highlight the passage at 1:20:17

1:20:28 really, you know, what all that's got to do with, you know, the fact that there's so much suffering in the world. What's that got to do, what's the connection between all that, you know, karma, emptiness and the fact that there's all this suffering in the world. Report an error in the passage at 1:20:28 Highlight the passage at 1:20:28

1:20:54 So now, something Report an error in the passage at 1:20:54 Highlight the passage at 1:20:54

1:20:59 I came across a few years ago. On the back of an exercise book, I think it was, you know what I mean by exercise books, kind of like notebook, Report an error in the passage at 1:20:59 Highlight the passage at 1:20:59

1:21:14 you know like sometimes you can get these, I don't know if you have this in the States, you can get these, yeah that kind of thing, the ones which are, the cheap ones, this is a nice one, I'm talking about these cheap, okay, really, it looks so nice. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:14 Highlight the passage at 1:21:14

1:21:34 But, you know, these ones sort of that have got the holes punched into them so you can put them into a folder. Anyway, so in England I know that sometimes you have a, like, they'll have a little quote from Groucho Marx, you know, like, I wouldn't belong to any club that would accept me as a member, that kind of thing, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:34 Highlight the passage at 1:21:34

1:21:48 So in India, they probably do the same kind of rubbish type of thing there as well, but sometimes they'll have, in the exercise books, they'll have these little sayings, like from Mahatma Gandhi. And I remember seeing one where he says, I can't remember it word by word, but anyway, I can remember the general way it went. Report an error in the passage at 1:21:48 Highlight the passage at 1:21:48

1:22:13 He said, I'll give you a talisman. So what's a talisman, actually? Yeah, something that's going to, something lucky. So something that's going to make your life happy, actually. This is what he meant. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:13 Highlight the passage at 1:22:13

1:22:30 Well, anyway, a talisman, whether it's magical or whatever it is, anyway, the point is that it brings you luck or it brings you happiness, right? That's the idea of it, isn't it? That's what he was talking about. I'll give you a talisman. He said, whenever you have some kind of important decision to make, then just ask yourself, you know, just think about the most wretched person that you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:22:30 Highlight the passage at 1:22:30

1:22:54 And in India, of course, I mean, there are so many of those. And ask yourself, Report an error in the passage at 1:22:54 Highlight the passage at 1:22:54

1:23:01 Is this going to help that person? If it's going to help, then I'll do it. If it's not going to help, I'm not going to do it. That was his talisman, that was his advice. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:01 Highlight the passage at 1:23:01

1:23:14 And this is really very powerful thing, I think, powerful idea. And of course it's something we can find in Buddhism as well, without question. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:14 Highlight the passage at 1:23:14

1:23:30 So, without going into... A great deal of detail. Generally speaking, according to the Buddhist teachings, there Report an error in the passage at 1:23:30 Highlight the passage at 1:23:30

1:23:49 are countless what we call sentient beings or sometimes people say living beings, right? Countless, whatever that means, countless. I'm not sure if it means infinite, but maybe it's infinite. Maybe there are infinite sentient beings. Sometimes they're in the... The Tibetan texts use the word countless, literally countless. There are just so many that there isn't a number to describe them. Report an error in the passage at 1:23:49 Highlight the passage at 1:23:49

1:24:22 Or maybe countless in the sense that if you were to count them up, one, two, three, you'd die before you got to the number. And then sometimes they say the sentient beings or living beings equal to the extent of space. Report an error in the passage at 1:24:22 Highlight the passage at 1:24:22

1:24:39 Nam ke tadang nyam pe, equal to like the... Edge of space. Of course, is there an edge to space? Is there a limit? So that's how many there are. It also gives you the idea that if you are able to travel in space, then you keep coming across sentient beings. You keep traveling and you'll find there are more sentient beings and there's more space and there's more sentient beings. So like that, countless sentient beings. And most of those sentient beings, apart from very, very few, experiencing Report an error in the passage at 1:24:39 Highlight the passage at 1:24:39

1:25:17 indescribable Report an error in the passage at 1:25:17 Highlight the passage at 1:25:17

1:25:28 other who are experiencing suffering, unbearable suffering. So you could say that that talisman of Gandhi is to, you know, ask yourself, Report an error in the passage at 1:25:28 Highlight the passage at 1:25:28

1:25:53 Whenever you're trying to decide what you want to do with your life, do with your life or do with this year or use this month for or use this week for or this evening for or whatever, if I do this, is it going to help in some way to do something about that? Report an error in the passage at 1:25:53 Highlight the passage at 1:25:53

1:26:17 So this is something we've been talking about quite a lot at Land of Medicine at the moment because we're studying the... The Bodhicara Avatara, Shantideva's the Bodhicara Avatara, or the way we usually write it up on the board is the guide to the Bodhisattva's way of life. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:17 Highlight the passage at 1:26:17

1:26:39 And particularly it's talking about this kind of thing there at the moment. So now, Report an error in the passage at 1:26:39 Highlight the passage at 1:26:39

1:26:51 according to the Mahāyāna teachings, you have this idea of taking responsibility, you know, oneself as an individual taking responsibility for all living beings. beings. Report an error in the passage at 1:26:51 Highlight the passage at 1:26:51

1:27:05 To free them from suffering and to make them happy, to bring them happiness. So this is countless or infinite sentient beings, living beings that are suffering so much and you're taking responsibility for that. So then sometimes there Report an error in the passage at 1:27:05 Highlight the passage at 1:27:05

1:27:42 are various things that might... Stop you from having that thought, this thought that says, I myself, alone, without waiting for somebody else to help me, without waiting for somebody else to do it instead of me, I'm going to do that. I'm going to free all sentient beings from suffering and I'm going to lead them all to happiness. Report an error in the passage at 1:27:42 Highlight the passage at 1:27:42

1:28:10 There are various thoughts, various things that might prevent that thought from arising in a person's mind. Even when you've heard about it, of course, people who've never heard about it, of course they're not going to think about it, Report an error in the passage at 1:28:10 Highlight the passage at 1:28:10

1:28:27 but even if you've heard about it. So one of them is the awareness, the fact actually that the suffering of others, the way it's put in the teachings anyway, the suffering of others doesn't harm me and the happiness of others doesn't help me. It doesn't harm me in the sense that, you know, No matter how much I might like you, you can be suffering terribly but I'm not going to experience that. Report an error in the passage at 1:28:27 Highlight the passage at 1:28:27

1:29:04 It might move me, it might affect me depending on whether I like you or not. If I don't like you I'll probably be quite pleased. If I like you it might upset me. Actually the interesting thing is that sometimes when you don't like somebody, when you see that they're suffering it changes something, doesn't it? But anyway, we also know very well that we sometimes... Report an error in the passage at 1:29:04 Highlight the passage at 1:29:04

1:29:26 Sometimes there's a slight feeling of delight when you hear somebody, certain people, you know, things going wrong for them. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:26 Highlight the passage at 1:29:26

1:29:44 So it's a fact that the suffering of others doesn't harm me in the sense that I don't experience it. And the happiness of others doesn't help me in the sense that I don't experience that either. Report an error in the passage at 1:29:44 Highlight the passage at 1:29:44

1:29:59 And then, so this is something that Michelle heard last night, right? Or then, not last night, yeah, yeah. Yeah, last night, wasn't it? Yeah, actually it was last night. So, considering she made this point, which I thought was really very, very helpful, because, Report an error in the passage at 1:29:59 Highlight the passage at 1:29:59

1:30:23 you know, we commonly, you know, I'm sure that you've spent time meditating on this, and you have this sort of thought in your mind, yes, the suffering of others is the same as mine, and, you know, you feel this kind of like your heart goes out to... Others and their suffering. But I noticed one time myself, actually, and this is something he was bringing up last night. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:23 Highlight the passage at 1:30:23

1:30:59 You know, if you hear that, like, I don't know, your mother or your father or your brother or sister or child, something's happened, immediately there's, it's like, you know, it's a terrible feeling, isn't it? Like, you've just heard... You get the news, your father's dying. I'm sure some people here have had that news. Your father's dying. Report an error in the passage at 1:30:59 Highlight the passage at 1:30:59

1:31:28 And it just completely throws your whole mind into this chaos, doesn't it? Report an error in the passage at 1:31:28 Highlight the passage at 1:31:28

1:31:37 Okay, so then you hear on the news or you read in the newspaper that a busload of people were killed coming down through Dharamsala or somewhere in Afghanistan or whatever. you know, just off the edge of a cliff. You can imagine the way they drive it. It can't be. It's not that unusual, I'm sure. And you hear that and you think, oh, how terrible. You know, you immediately, maybe you might feel that straight away, you know. Report an error in the passage at 1:31:37 Highlight the passage at 1:31:37

1:32:10 Oh, how terrible, you know. But then just imagine that if one of those people were your mother or your father or your child or... There's no comparison, is there, actually? Report an error in the passage at 1:32:10 Highlight the passage at 1:32:10

1:32:28 So you think that you're doing very well with this compassion business, but then you suddenly realize that it's... So the Khenzrim She, the way he described it was, or the way he put it was like this. You know, you hear about this earthquake in China or this cyclone in Myanmar, and you think, oh, terrible, so terrible. Report an error in the passage at 1:32:28 Highlight the passage at 1:32:28

1:32:53 Oh, how terrible. Oh, it must be awful. Then you hear about... The fire in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Actually, because of course you're living down here in San Francisco, so you're probably thinking, oh, how terrible. For us, it's like, you know, oh, how terrible, you know, poor things. For us, it's like, and why is that? Report an error in the passage at 1:32:53 Highlight the passage at 1:32:53

1:33:22 Where's the difference, you know? Where's the difference? Because you, it's, the difference is there is some risk that you're going to be harmed. The suffering of the people in China in that earthquake and in Myanmar because of the cyclone, that doesn't harm me. But you feel there's at least some danger of being harmed by this fire in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:22 Highlight the passage at 1:33:22

1:33:51 So actually we do commonly not feel so much for the suffering of others because it doesn't. Report an error in the passage at 1:33:51 Highlight the passage at 1:33:51

1:34:07 when we think it's going to harm us, we feel kind of like you really want to do something. have this energy when it's your own suffering you have this incredible energy it's your own happiness you can do anything I suppose I could say intellectually, but maybe even more than intellectually, somebody who really does feel, you know, I must, I really must. Report an error in the passage at 1:34:07 Highlight the passage at 1:34:07

1:34:38 Free all beings from suffering. I'm going to do that. But still there's, you know, you hear about suffering and you think, oh, how terrible. But you don't have that same kind of feeling as when you've just been for a test and they found something, you know, this kind of mark, maybe somewhere around your liver or your kidneys or something, and it could be cancer. Report an error in the passage at 1:34:38 Highlight the passage at 1:34:38

1:35:04 And it's just this... It's... Totally different from the feeling you get when you hear that a couple of thousand people just died in China. You think, oh, how terrible. But you don't have that kind of feeling like when it's yourself. Report an error in the passage at 1:35:04 Highlight the passage at 1:35:04

1:35:25 So even though the suffering of others doesn't harm me and the happiness of others doesn't help me in the sense, as I said, that I don't experience their suffering and I don't experience their happiness. So nevertheless... Report an error in the passage at 1:35:25 Highlight the passage at 1:35:25

1:35:45 It's the utmost importance to do something about that. So for that reason we have so much talk about the kindness of others because although Report an error in the passage at 1:35:45 Highlight the passage at 1:35:45

1:36:00 in general the suffering of others doesn't harm me and so it's difficult for me to feel so strongly about their suffering as I feel about my own, that kind of sense of panic, you do feel this kind of feeling of panic about... Some people in their suffering, don't you? I'm sure everybody's got people, whether it's close relatives or friends or whatever, when you hear of their suffering, you feel distressed, a similar kind of distress that you feel about your own suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:36:00 Highlight the passage at 1:36:00

1:36:36 So it's a question of feeling close to others, isn't it? If you could feel close to all sentient beings, then you'd feel the same kind of distress that they're suffering and the same... Feeling that maybe you'd even feel that you'd willingly suffer in their place. They say that about, that's one of the things when we're talking about the kindness of the mother in Buddhism, how a mother and father would feel that they would, if their child is ill, they would rather that they themselves could be ill instead of the child being ill. Report an error in the passage at 1:36:36 Highlight the passage at 1:36:36

1:37:14 If there's a risk of the child dying, they would feel willingly. that would die in the place of their child. The interesting thing about that, of course, is that before that child was born, they were a complete stranger in terms, again, of past and future lives. It's just this one sentient being out of countless sentient beings that just happened to enter into that fertilized egg or whatever it was at that point. Report an error in the passage at 1:37:14 Highlight the passage at 1:37:14

1:37:50 And from then onwards, there's this my child, and you would die for them. Before that, they were total strangers. So the thing is, there is the possibility of somebody turning from a complete stranger that you don't care about into somebody that you would die for. Report an error in the passage at 1:37:50 Highlight the passage at 1:37:50

1:38:08 So things can change, right? Things can change. So there is that possibility. If it can change in that one case, or how many children you've got, then... There's the potential for it to change so that you have that same kind of feeling about all sentient beings. And then another thing which Shantideva says, which I find, this is just one line, and I was saying last night that the English translation is sort of loose a bit. Report an error in the passage at 1:38:08 Highlight the passage at 1:38:08

1:38:39 It says, because it's suffering, I have to get rid of it. What that means is, Just because the suffering of others is suffering, I have to get rid of it. I have to eliminate it. Whether it's my suffering or the suffering of others, still it's suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:38:39 Highlight the passage at 1:38:39

1:39:02 That's the nature of suffering, is that it's something that we have to get rid of. Whether it's your suffering or the suffering of others. And it's quite interesting because of course we have a tendency to think, well, yeah, but, okay, it's the same, but actually it's not the same because their suffering is their suffering, my suffering is my suffering. Report an error in the passage at 1:39:02 Highlight the passage at 1:39:02

1:39:18 Big difference. And this is where they start talking about this mountain and that mountain. When you're over on this mountain, the mountain over there is that mountain. But then when you go down and onto the other mountain, the mountain that you were calling that mountain, you're calling this mountain. And you're calling the one that you were calling this mountain, that mountain. Report an error in the passage at 1:39:18 Highlight the passage at 1:39:18

1:39:39 It's just relative, isn't it? So my suffering is just relative from my point of view, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 1:39:39 Highlight the passage at 1:39:39

1:39:50 I don't know if this helps. I find it quite amusing to think that where I'm thinking I, okay, everybody's thinking I, right? I. So I'm thinking I, but everybody else in this room is thinking what about me? Him, right? Or other. I'm the only one in the whole room that's thinking I about this person, right? So I'm kind of outnumbered, aren't I? Report an error in the passage at 1:39:50 Highlight the passage at 1:39:50

1:40:20 But it is relative. It's relative, isn't it? So me and you is totally relative, isn't it? From your point of view it's me and you. It's totally relative, isn't it? So also my suffering is totally relative. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:20 Highlight the passage at 1:40:20

1:40:44 Your thought, your thinking, where I'm thinking your suffering, you're thinking my suffering. And that's totally... Relative and valid, isn't it? So actually, just like with this mountain, that mountain, there's nothing ultimate about it being that mountain, it's just from a certain perspective it's that mountain. Report an error in the passage at 1:40:44 Highlight the passage at 1:40:44

1:41:08 It's just as valid to think of it as this mountain. And it is this mountain when you're over there. So also, you know, my suffering, your suffering, me, you, it's... Totally just relative, like this mountain, that mountain, isn't it? Report an error in the passage at 1:41:08 Highlight the passage at 1:41:08

1:41:29 Yeah? Mirror neurons. If I see you suffering, I have neurons in my brain that will go off, mirroring your suffering. I'm not sure I can accept that it mirrors in the sense that maybe, and only maybe because not everybody has the capacity to empathize, right? Maybe when you see my suffering... Report an error in the passage at 1:41:29 Highlight the passage at 1:41:29

1:41:57 The way we normally put it is you might feel for my suffering, you might sympathize with me, but that's not going to happen with everybody. So in any case, supposing something's going on in your brain that you describe as mirroring my suffering, that's not going to happen with everybody. Report an error in the passage at 1:41:57 Highlight the passage at 1:41:57

1:42:20 And in any case, you're not experiencing my suffering. What's happening... the way we would normally describe it if we didn't have I'm sure you can describe everything that we've talked about tonight in terms of neurons firing and dendrites and synapses and stuff like that. I did learn about that when I was at school. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:20 Highlight the passage at 1:42:20

1:42:43 But it's just another way of describing the same thing. Another way of describing it is you might see my suffering and want to do something about it, but you might not. Report an error in the passage at 1:42:43 Highlight the passage at 1:42:43

1:43:00 Remember, in the case of, you know, if you've decided you hate me, and it could happen, right? Let's say you hate me. If you see my suffering, some very different mirroring is going to go on in that case, which we would describe as being full of glee at my suffering because you hate me. That also can happen, can't it? So I don't think it's relevant, but it's just something that lives alongside of what we've... Report an error in the passage at 1:43:00 Highlight the passage at 1:43:00

1:43:31 I understood Report an error in the passage at 1:43:31 Highlight the passage at 1:43:31

1:43:36 that one of the things with Buddhism is to realize that suffering is optional, that pain happens and that you can't change that, but to turn it into suffering is a belief about the I in that, so that sometimes when people die, I look at it and say, oh, I hope they get a better life next time so that I'm not suffering because I don't see it as necessarily bad that they died. Report an error in the passage at 1:43:36 Highlight the passage at 1:43:36

1:44:04 Or that sometimes I wonder if I'm helping a person, if I'm taking away from them their lesson. You know, that part of what we're sort of all going towards a goal of enlightenment, and they're going and I'm going, and that the lessons, suffering is part of the lessons. So that it seems that maybe that when you're saying, oh, I've got to do something about their suffering, you're getting caught in their illusion or your illusion. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:04 Highlight the passage at 1:44:04

1:44:35 Well, whether you get, I don't know about getting caught in it or not caught in it, but anyway, there is suffering, isn't there? And people who are experiencing suffering don't like it. Just like we don't like it when we experience suffering. So that's the point anyway. Just like, you know, when you're in pain, you want to do something about it. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:35 Highlight the passage at 1:44:35

1:44:58 Nobody needs to convince you of that. You just don't like it. We know this all the time. You come into this kind of meditation hall and you sit down and your knees start to hurt. And you just automatically move around to stop it. You don't need convincing. So the suffering of others is exactly the same. Report an error in the passage at 1:44:58 Highlight the passage at 1:44:58

1:45:22 And I have knee problems. And one of the things I've learned is that where I put my attention... And how I feel about it and if I distract myself then it's not there so that with my mind I can control that and it doesn't have to be suffering. Yeah, so you have that technique but what about everybody else? I think I learn that from some suffering and that and I might try and teach them but it may be that that's their lesson. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:22 Highlight the passage at 1:45:22

1:45:57 That's also true. People do sometimes learn from suffering and that's... I think, you know, it's a bit like this. In dealing with your own suffering, there are a whole load of things like, for example, understanding that when you suffer, you're using up negative karma. And once it's used up, it doesn't have to be experienced again. You don't experience the same results, the same karma twice. So if I get ill, then I'm using up negative karma. Report an error in the passage at 1:45:57 Highlight the passage at 1:45:57

1:46:35 Instead of feeling miserable and thinking, why me, which just doubles the suffering, if I think to myself, this is really great because I'm using up negative karma. Report an error in the passage at 1:46:35 Highlight the passage at 1:46:35

1:46:49 So I can use that for myself, but that doesn't mean to say that when I see somebody else suffering that I should just think to myself, great, they're using up negative karma. Report an error in the passage at 1:46:49 Highlight the passage at 1:46:49

1:47:03 Because there are many reasons for that. One of them is that... Just because I can maybe deal with it that way doesn't mean to say that they're dealing with it that way. You see, one thing that happens is people are often saying, oh, suffering, that's great, you use up negative karma. Not all experiences of suffering are purification. Some people say, oh, suffering, great, purification. It's not always purification because sometimes while you're suffering, because of the suffering or with that suffering acting as a condition, You create more suffering because, for example, you start blaming other people, so you want to fight other people, and you blame them, you fight them, and while you're doing that, you're creating more negative karma. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:03 Highlight the passage at 1:47:03

1:47:52 So it's the opposite of negative karma, the opposite of purification. Your suffering has been a cause for more suffering. Not only is it like there's the suffering, then you get angry, which means your mind is suffering, then because of the anger, you create negative karma. So you're going to have to experience even more suffering in the future as a result of that negative karma. So it's almost like the reverse of purification. If you've got the right attitude, then suffering is purification because you're going to be thinking, oh, this is great. Report an error in the passage at 1:47:52 Highlight the passage at 1:47:52

1:48:21 I'm using up negative karma. So your mind is calm. You're not going to blame other people. You're not going to get angry with other people. You're not going to get angry with God for inflicting this on you. See what I mean? So the thing is, there's all sorts of things that you might be able to... Report an error in the passage at 1:48:21 Highlight the passage at 1:48:21

1:48:39 deal with your own suffering and solve your own suffering but there are so many other beings in this world and worlds or whatever Report an error in the passage at 1:48:39 Highlight the passage at 1:48:39

1:48:51 don't know about that so they need to be taught and so taking responsibility for the suffering of others is to do with taking the responsibility to show them and of course how can you do that you know I mean actual fact Thank you There's very little that you can do. I mean there's a little bit that we can do as we're going along but it's quite limited, isn't it? As they say, you know, how can we take responsibility for all other sentient beings when we can't really even sort out our own problems? Report an error in the passage at 1:48:51 Highlight the passage at 1:48:51

1:49:20 But the thing is if you achieve enlightenment, then you have this kind of like this clarity of mind that enables you to really know exactly what a person needs at a given stage in their development. Report an error in the passage at 1:49:20 Highlight the passage at 1:49:20

1:49:38 That kind of thing. Report an error in the passage at 1:49:38 Highlight the passage at 1:49:38

1:49:45 So that seems like a good argument for what I'm saying is that since you can't know, you can't know what's the best thing to do for them, then it comes back to what your intuition, which isn't pure yet, tells you to do. And it's not always necessarily the best thing to do to help somebody. Right. Well, I think it's a fact that we need... Report an error in the passage at 1:49:45 Highlight the passage at 1:49:45

1:50:10 Not just a good heart and the will to help others, but you also need wisdom. Otherwise, I saw something which clearly illustrated this recently, but I can't remember what it was now. But I know that there's one story Report an error in the passage at 1:50:10 Highlight the passage at 1:50:10

1:50:34 that I heard which I thought was quite good. There's this old Tibetan living with his son. And while his son goes out to work, the father's got the job of taking care of the house and cooking because he's quite old. So they've got this pot of oil, right? And so oil is quite, I mean, in that culture, in that setting, was quite valuable, quite a valuable commodity. So when he's doing the cooking, when the father's doing the cooking, Report an error in the passage at 1:50:34 Highlight the passage at 1:50:34

1:51:23 So he takes the oil down and he uses the oil and then when he goes to put it back it drops because his eyesight I guess is not very good. So instead of sort of hanging up on the hook there was this fly that had landed on the wall and so he went to put it on the fly thinking the fly was the hook. Of course the fly wasn't a hook so it dropped and lost all the oil. So then when the sun comes in the father explains this to him and the sun is just... Report an error in the passage at 1:51:23 Highlight the passage at 1:51:23

1:51:54 incensed he hold of this hammer and he's kind of trying to get he to kill this this fly and when he sees it landing on his father's head he smashes it down and of course he kills his father this this is an example of how you need not just a method but I don't know Report an error in the passage at 1:51:54 Highlight the passage at 1:51:54

1:52:24 if that's got anything to do with anything. But anyway. it's not just. It's true what you say that sometimes even though we really want to do the right thing, we get things wrong. So all that means is that we need to develop our wisdom side so that we can be clearer about what's going to help and what's not going to help. Report an error in the passage at 1:52:24 Highlight the passage at 1:52:24

1:52:49 And actually, I mean, I think although it's possible that things can go drastically wrong, but generally speaking when you... When you try to help, even if it doesn't turn out to be the thing that the person needs or wants, you know what it's like, sometimes you try and help somebody and they just yell at you. Report an error in the passage at 1:52:49 Highlight the passage at 1:52:49

1:53:12 So maybe it's not what they wanted, but generally speaking, if your intentions are sincere, in terms of karma, I think they usually say that you would only be creating positive karma, not negative karma. Report an error in the passage at 1:53:12 Highlight the passage at 1:53:12

1:53:30 So, really, you know, that insight that even though you want to solve all of the problems of the world, you're not able to at the moment because you're just not being able to see things clearly enough is really just another reason why to get enlightened because then you can see things clearly and you don't make mistakes. Report an error in the passage at 1:53:30 Highlight the passage at 1:53:30

1:53:59 Okay, so maybe we'll stop there. Anyway, so anyway, remember the question is, so this is what's really important. There's all that suffering going on in the world. So how does this talk about karma and emptiness, what's the relevance of it to that? Report an error in the passage at 1:53:59 Highlight the passage at 1:53:59

1:54:22 If it's not going to help with that, then it's kind of pointless. And then the connection between the person and their body and mind, that would be good to think about. If you want some homework, the relationship between... One's self and one's body and mind. That whole idea about the body and mind being the base of imputation. Am I my body? Report an error in the passage at 1:54:22 Highlight the passage at 1:54:22

1:54:45 Am I my mind? That kind of thing. And then what's the relevance of that? Because the person is the one that creates the karma. And what's the relevance of all that to the fact that right now there is just so much suffering going on? If Report an error in the passage at 1:54:45 Highlight the passage at 1:54:45

1:55:12 we spend a couple of minutes... Report an error in the passage at 1:55:12 Highlight the passage at 1:55:12

1:55:16 Dedicating because of the positive karma that we've created this evening between ourselves, amongst us this evening and also because of all of the positive karma and all of the good that there ever has been, that there is and ever will be. Because of that may the ocean of saṃsāra be dried up. In other words, may all beings be... Report an error in the passage at 1:55:16 Highlight the passage at 1:55:16

1:55:49 Definitely free of all suffering and find the most perfect happiness. See Report an error in the passage at 1:55:49 Highlight the passage at 1:55:49

· · · silence, 1 minute

1:56:41 you next week, hopefully. Report an error in the passage at 1:56:41 Highlight the passage at 1:56:41