Can Stillness Be Trusted?

0:00 This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:15 Can you trust a practice such as Zen or Buddhism or any kind of tradition that the way is stillness, that the way is silence? Report an error in the passage at 0:15 Highlight the passage at 0:15

0:33 And if things come up and you just notice that too, because it's very scary when I first started practicing silence so much, you know, especially after having been silent as a young person, as a teenager. Report an error in the passage at 0:33 Highlight the passage at 0:33

0:49 And I've had people come to me saying, oh, that's all I used to do. Now I want to have my voice, you know, thinking of my partner just came. She always comes up in my talks, but she always wanted her voice, you know, to be heard. Report an error in the passage at 0:49 Highlight the passage at 0:49

1:07 I understood because Report an error in the passage at 1:07 Highlight the passage at 1:07

1:25 there is the harmful silence that can come into being. Harmful stillness that can come into being. And then there's stillness and silence. Report an error in the passage at 1:25 Highlight the passage at 1:25

1:41 As a response to the conditions of the world, the conditions of human beings of today, of this time, Report an error in the passage at 1:41 Highlight the passage at 1:41

1:52 I really feel every time we gather in the way that we're doing now is very precious and special. And I don't take any of it for granted because in other places this can't happen. So it gives us a chance to do that for those in other places. or in other conditions, those who are ill, are incarcerated, all these different places in which this is not. Report an error in the passage at 1:52 Highlight the passage at 1:52

2:25 freedom they have. Report an error in the passage at 2:25 Highlight the passage at 2:25

2:35 who fought for this freedom for us to sit Report an error in the passage at 2:35 Highlight the passage at 2:35

2:45 give thanks to that too. I bow to that. Report an error in the passage at 2:45 Highlight the passage at 2:45

2:55 So we come in and we're thinking, okay, I'm going to leave the world for a few minutes and come in here and sit and practice something. Report an error in the passage at 2:55 Highlight the passage at 2:55

3:09 Not quite sure what, but practice something. So the other question I have is, have you left the world? Report an error in the passage at 3:09 Highlight the passage at 3:09

3:21 Have you left everything behind, everything that's happening behind? Report an error in the passage at 3:21 Highlight the passage at 3:21

3:29 Does it feel like that necessarily? All right. Did you bring it all with you? Or is it right here? Is this the world too? Is this the world too? And is this the response too? Stillness and silence. Report an error in the passage at 3:29 Highlight the passage at 3:29

3:51 A lot of questions I have asked myself over the time. And also, well, what is this thing we call practicing and practice? And we've been talking about that a little bit in this practice period. Like what is it about? And practicing. Particularly the Buddha way, so I want to name that. Which in every, whatever tradition of Buddhism. And what is the practicing good for? Report an error in the passage at 3:51 Highlight the passage at 3:51

4:24 And I've had friends tell me, so just when do you stop practicing and you get it? You understand what's going on. You know, you just keep practicing and practicing. You know. And I said, I understand. Maybe it should end at some point. There should be an end to all of this. And she said, yeah, I think you should stop practicing. Report an error in the passage at 4:24 Highlight the passage at 4:24

4:49 She was really right on for that one. And I loved it. I just love the zeal she had for ending practice. I went right along with it. Report an error in the passage at 4:49 Highlight the passage at 4:49

5:02 But what practice is she talking about? What practice are they talking about? Report an error in the passage at 5:02 Highlight the passage at 5:02

5:13 And what do they think I'm practicing? Report an error in the passage at 5:13 Highlight the passage at 5:13

5:21 Oh, you're practicing to be loving and kind. I've read that before. Loving and kind. You're practicing to be compassionate, but sometimes you're not. You're practicing to not be angry, but you seem angry all the time. Report an error in the passage at 5:21 Highlight the passage at 5:21

5:42 Oh, you're practicing to breathe. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Practicing to do these things that I heard about. You know, that a good Buddhist, a good student of Buddha does. Is there a good student and a bad student of Buddha? Report an error in the passage at 5:42 Highlight the passage at 5:42

6:06 Is there a good way and a bad way of responding to the human condition? A better way, a superior way, and an inferior way? Report an error in the passage at 6:06 Highlight the passage at 6:06

6:21 A passive way, an active way? All these words we put on practice. All these words we put on responding to war. Report an error in the passage at 6:21 Highlight the passage at 6:21

6:33 Our idea is real or not. Report an error in the passage at 6:33 Highlight the passage at 6:33

6:39 Being affected by all of the sanctions and things happening, the families being torn apart, all these things in the world. Report an error in the passage at 6:39 Highlight the passage at 6:39

6:55 Is this a good response? There's so much suffering, we have to do something. So much suffering, we have to do something. So this is what's the frustration in this friend, like you need to stop practicing and get to work. Report an error in the passage at 6:55 Highlight the passage at 6:55

7:10 You need to get to work. And I said, I am at work. I am. Every day. Every day. Every moment. But what are you at work doing? Most people do think, because I'm a priest, that I sit home every day, 365 days, breathing and chanting every day. And some days I do in my life. And so they don't get that. You need to go to work. Report an error in the passage at 7:10 Highlight the passage at 7:10

7:45 You need to get out and do something, you know, because you're just sitting home breathing. I'd like you to talk to some of the practitioners here and see if that's true or what they feel their experience is. But we're very active, and the activity is of the Buddha way. The activity is of the Buddha way. And that's the activity that my friend who wanted me to stop practicing had no idea of. Report an error in the passage at 7:45 Highlight the passage at 7:45

8:13 No idea. And that's okay, too. And I was not going to tell that person anything about it because that's not my way. And I think, just fine, I don't judge it. I don't judge and decide, oh, you need to come and sit or anything like that. But I do feel that we have so much suffering in the world. One of our greatest desires as people is to end that suffering. The greatest. Maybe next to love. Report an error in the passage at 8:13 Highlight the passage at 8:13

8:48 Having love, that might be another one that we work hard for. In my time piece, I love these kimonos. Report an error in the passage at 8:48 Highlight the passage at 8:48

9:08 And so we come and we practice to, that's a reason, well, we're trying to get rid of the suffering. And that's why this friend said, come out, we can do a better job than what you're doing sitting around. Get this suffering done, you know. And I'm like, yes, I can imagine how that feels because I've done it myself. Report an error in the passage at 9:08 Highlight the passage at 9:08

9:32 And we've come for our own suffering, you know, how we're suffering now. The anxiety, the angst of, you know, what are we becoming? Where are we going? You know, as people in the world, not just where we live, but everywhere. In that world, you think you left. Report an error in the passage at 9:32 Highlight the passage at 9:32

9:52 You might feel you left to come to Green Gulch to get a little piece of awakening, a little piece of medicine, a little piece of practice. Report an error in the passage at 9:52 Highlight the passage at 9:52

10:05 To end the suffering, what Report an error in the passage at 10:05 Highlight the passage at 10:05

10:13 is practice? Report an error in the passage at 10:13 Highlight the passage at 10:13

10:19 Many of us have done it for decades and still ask the question, what is practice? And what is it we're practicing? Report an error in the passage at 10:19 Highlight the passage at 10:19

10:31 Can we practice loving kindness and rely on it when we get all angry or something? Are upset or desperate when we're in our state of suffering? Is there practice there? And someone said, yes, you kind of cope with it. You start breathing, you do this, you do that. All kinds of things to do that we've been told to do. And we talked about this a little bit this past week. Report an error in the passage at 10:31 Highlight the passage at 10:31

10:59 It was fun. We laughed. You breathe in, you breathe out. You do a Buddha, you count to ten. You make sure you do this. Someone's given a lot of instructions in our lives to how to respond to our suffering. How to practice. Report an error in the passage at 10:59 Highlight the passage at 10:59

11:19 When all the instructions give us, the instructions give us how we can prepare actually, to actually practice what is being asked to practice. I'll tell you a little more about it later, don't worry. So, posture, you know, how you're sitting, are you comfortable, can you receive it. Are you relaxed enough to even receive that medicine you're asking for? Are you ready for it? Are you ready for that strong medicine you asked for? Report an error in the passage at 11:19 Highlight the passage at 11:19

12:03 Are you only got 10 minutes and you need to get it done so that you can end your suffering? Report an error in the passage at 12:03 Highlight the passage at 12:03

12:16 This is very difficult for all of us. So I had talked to some of the students about what they might think practice is. You know, many times it's about accomplishing something in their lives or having a goal. And we've been looking at studying the self and forget the self and trying to practice that. That is one of the teachings in Zen Buddhism to study the self, but what self? And then what are you forgetting? Do you forget who you are? Report an error in the passage at 12:16 Highlight the passage at 12:16

12:58 Is this amnesia? Or is this something that's trying to, Keep us from being who we are? No. But as soon, I don't know if you noticed, start practicing something like loving kindness or peace. You start doing it and you forget what you're doing or what it was you were doing. Or it wears out somewhere down the line. Report an error in the passage at 12:58 Highlight the passage at 12:58

13:26 I was really practicing loving kindness and it seems like that has slipped away. Somewhere I was practicing peace and it seemed like I have more, less peace. More suffering. So sometimes these things come from our mind about what they are, what practice is, and how practice is related to how we suffer. Report an error in the passage at 13:26 Highlight the passage at 13:26

13:50 So I wanted to share with you, so I want to make sure I get to this. I have one poem that I want to share with you. It's rather long, but not now. I wanted to talk about Suzuki Roshi and just use a few words, not all of the words, but the practice of Zen mind is beginner's mind, A lot of us know about that book that was written, at least a collection of his talks. And so the practice of Zen mind is beginner's mind. Report an error in the passage at 13:50 Highlight the passage at 13:50

14:19 What is that? What is the beginner's mind? And how do we practice that? So when we come in Zen, that immediately happens. We say, put your hand in shashu. This is shashu. Put your hand in gassho. And we're like, okay, how is that related to anything? Report an error in the passage at 14:19 Highlight the passage at 14:19

14:49 In my experience, it's changing the moment. It's actually adding an expansion, not adding, but giving some type of expansion when you're going to go shashu, and the way you normally sit is like this. Report an error in the passage at 14:49 Highlight the passage at 14:49

15:06 So it's breaking a habit that you have as a human being, just a little bit, for a little while, just a little. Comfort, something different, something not from your mind. This is not from your mind. It's not from our mind. It's a movement of the body, using the body to be free of the habits, which is what Suzuki Roshi said, free of the habits of the expert. Report an error in the passage at 15:06 Highlight the passage at 15:06

15:36 So how many already know how to end suffering, or most of it? Or some of it? 10%, 5 %? Report an error in the passage at 15:36 Highlight the passage at 15:36

15:48 We know. How about ease suffering? How many feel they can ease that? they have a way of doing that and then when you get someplace and you begin to try to use your tools everybody comes with a little toolbox to Gringotts got my box Report an error in the passage at 15:48 Highlight the passage at 15:48

16:07 to ease the suffering you know no matter what it is the food might not be good so i'll do this i need this i'll need this and i also already know i've been doing this for a long time so i kind of know about some of the things you're talking about but have those things in in your little box? Are those your habits? Report an error in the passage at 16:07 Highlight the passage at 16:07

16:39 The very thing that is suffering in the world, habits, free, not free of particular habits. Oh, there's a problem, let's go through our usual toolbox and get on the computer and there's... There it is. There's the platform. There's the system. And we run it right through the same system every time. Report an error in the passage at 16:39 Highlight the passage at 16:39

17:01 I've been seeing that since the 50s. The same system. It runs right through the same, hear the same thing. So we're not free of our habits. And practicing helps that, to become free of the habits that we have as people. Free of the expert. So we have a lot of experts in our country, in the world. It may even feel like we have experts right here in this world. You know, like who are the experts here? Are there any experts here in this world? Report an error in the passage at 17:01 Highlight the passage at 17:01

17:36 Are you one of them? Am I one of them? Is the abbot one of them? Yes, excuse me. The abbot's one of them. We're not going to question the abbot at that point. I'm just joking. Report an error in the passage at 17:36 Highlight the passage at 17:36

17:56 It's important to laugh. It is of the highest, most auspicious way to be, is to laugh. At life and at yourself and at people, just understand we're all just trying to live and stay alive in all the suffering that we have going on around us. Report an error in the passage at 17:56 Highlight the passage at 17:56

18:21 So we're looking at having beginner's mind. It doesn't mean like have a mind of a child or to begin like you haven't learned anything. It just means that everything is discovery. So those who've been to Green Gulch, You're just like the people who haven't, who raised their hand. This is new to you, every time. Every time I walk in a zendo, sit in my seat, it's like, oh, it's a new day. Report an error in the passage at 18:21 Highlight the passage at 18:21

18:51 And I've been walking into zendos for more than 25 years. It's a new day, every time. It's a new discovery. It seems like it's the same old thing. I'll go to my, and I'll sit down, and then it's like something is different. The side is different. Let me see what to discover today. But I feel different because we're changing every moment. Report an error in the passage at 18:51 Highlight the passage at 18:51

19:16 So if we're changing every moment and you're stuck with your habits, nothing's going to happen. Nothing. So practice, you come and your habits are disrupted. Report an error in the passage at 19:16 Highlight the passage at 19:16

19:29 And you're not practicing those things. So let me practice so I can keep having disruptions. No, because everything is changing. Even the habits you've been bringing in, they're all changed. And maybe they just got changed now. Or you add it to that little toolbox. Let me open that up and drop that in there. And next time I'll have it. So Suzuki Roshi also says, in a flash, you can realize the original nature of everything. Report an error in the passage at 19:29 Highlight the passage at 19:29

19:58 Practice is in a flash. By going step by step, you can realize the original nature of everything. That's a beautiful sentence, right? But what does it mean to your life? And you want to know that meaning right now. At least when I would read things, I'd say, oh, everything's so beautiful and poetic. I'm a poet, so I love it. But what is the meaning of it? Report an error in the passage at 19:58 Highlight the passage at 19:58

20:25 And that meaning of it can't really come to mind or come to the body, body and mind until one is coming into the gateway of the practice. And the practice is not to sit better, although sitting can help, helps you stay longer. in the environment. Report an error in the passage at 20:25 Highlight the passage at 20:25

20:48 environment to receive. You don't even know what you're receiving. Report an error in the passage at 20:48 Highlight the passage at 20:48

20:55 After I learned all the forms, I said, okay, all done. But you never learn all the forms. It's something new all the time. You know, even when I came here, I was like, okay, I wonder what's going to happen, what I'm going to learn new. And it's like, okay, I think I kind of know. And then it's like, how about doing this? I was like, oh, no. Report an error in the passage at 20:55 Highlight the passage at 20:55

21:18 Something new. How about doing this now? I'm like, well, something new. And what do I say? Inside I go, I'm trying to figure out why not, but I know I must say yes in order to break the habit that I have, even as a teacher, you know, someone who's sharing. I always feel like I'm sharing more than teaching. Sharing my experience of practice is to teach to me. Report an error in the passage at 21:18 Highlight the passage at 21:18

21:44 And I always tell people if they want to know more of the intellectual studies, which I have done, I think it's more important to, as my teacher was very much about, you just go sit Zazen, because I can study the books. Report an error in the passage at 21:44 Highlight the passage at 21:44

22:02 So in a flash, step by step, a sitting every day coming in the Zendo, in a flash can realize the original nature of everything. Is that helpful to the world? Report an error in the passage at 22:02 Highlight the passage at 22:02

22:15 We might have a discussion about that after I, you know, be quiet and listen to you. But is that helpful? Can you trust it? Report an error in the passage at 22:15 Highlight the passage at 22:15

22:34 So when I look at practice for myself personally, it's to remember, to recall over and over the vastness of being human. Report an error in the passage at 22:34 Highlight the passage at 22:34

22:44 To recall and to remember the vastness of being human and what that's like. And not to cut it off. Not to cut off something so that I have a better human life. And to know that there are so many other realms of life. To remember that. And so that doesn't mean when I come and I sit and I'm totally, completely in my mind about it, so I'm going to sit and I'm going to recall the vastness of being human. Report an error in the passage at 22:44 Highlight the passage at 22:44

23:19 No. It doesn't come that way. It comes when some kind of suffering Or something comes to me while being here or being in an environment in which, or being in the world, like we're in the world. When something comes and shakes you up enough to know that you have to do something different, but you don't know what that difference is, you know, and then so you don't do it, you just wait. Report an error in the passage at 23:19 Highlight the passage at 23:19

23:45 You wait. You wait for that. Something comes and rocks your world, you know. How many world... Your world, isn't it rocked by now? Is there anybody here that's not rocked in the world by something? Report an error in the passage at 23:45 Highlight the passage at 23:45

24:07 And can you allow it to be, to happen to you, to not happen to you and still be rocked? So in this place that you feel, if you can feel that, it will keep you from using your habits as much. you know, well. I'll breathe on that. I got a beautiful little altar at home. I'll go home and breathe on it. Sit. Report an error in the passage at 24:07 Highlight the passage at 24:07

24:39 But before that, what else? Before that, what else? And before that, what else? So practice for me so when things get riled, I go, oh, human. Report an error in the passage at 24:39 Highlight the passage at 24:39

24:55 This one. Human. She's doing things. Every other human being does. Report an error in the passage at 24:55 Highlight the passage at 24:55

25:06 Sometimes when I do laugh, I just go, hmm. And I was telling somebody, I think we're the splitting image of each other, the way we are when we do the things we do. And I see myself in so many people and I sit before so many people and they come and they're talking and it just sounds like me. It sounds like it has some distinctions, maybe different intensities, but there's something in there that makes me see. Report an error in the passage at 25:06 Highlight the passage at 25:06

25:43 The nature and the condition of human beings. So I'm never surprised. I'm never surprised by what happens. Never surprised about what human beings do. Report an error in the passage at 25:43 Highlight the passage at 25:43

25:56 When I was in Mongolia many years ago, I was walking with a well-known nun in Tibetan world. And we were walking up this mountain, big mountain. And along the way, they had all these altars. Report an error in the passage at 25:56 Highlight the passage at 25:56

26:14 And the altars were to the many monks who were murdered in Mongolia at the time when Buddhism was, they were trying to wipe it out. Report an error in the passage at 26:14 Highlight the passage at 26:14

26:33 And some of that was actually still going on in Mongolia where we were. So I, we were walking up this hill, we both were pretty tired, it was a big hill. And there were a lot of altars and you see a lot of kathas. The scarves, white ones, you see a lot of Tibetans use. They're blue and white. They use blue and white. So you see them flying all over, all over the land. Report an error in the passage at 26:33 Highlight the passage at 26:33

26:59 And those altars, you know, we were looking at, and the nun that was walking with me, she said, oh, this is just horrifying. She said, this is horrifying that all these monks were murdered, and they're right under our feet as we walk, you know, their remains. They're ashes, all kinds of things. And so I was walking and looked at her and I said, mm-hmm. I said, aren't we something else? Report an error in the passage at 26:59 Highlight the passage at 26:59

27:32 People are something else. She looked. And Report an error in the passage at 27:32 Highlight the passage at 27:32

27:41 what are we capable of? When a certain time comes, what are we capable of? And we dare not say. We hope not, right? We hope not. And this is why we come together sometimes, to help each other. Report an error in the passage at 27:41 Highlight the passage at 27:41

28:01 And to consider for this moment, and you can have this moment to yourself. This is fine. This is good. It's okay. It is a response. Report an error in the passage at 28:01 Highlight the passage at 28:01

28:13 It's not the only response, but it is one. And so there's this monk. I don't know if he's still alive. And this is actually a transcript. It's a poem, but it's a transcript of it. And this is called The Monk and the Moon. Anybody ever heard that one? And he's a hermit and lives in the foothills, the mountains, the Himalayan mountains. Report an error in the passage at 28:13 Highlight the passage at 28:13

28:43 And it's a poem that just struck me so much. I continue to read it years and years and years later because I feel that what he's saying is probably the essence of what we're practicing and actually naming it. In a way that is not like loving kindness, compassion, no anger, you know, these kinds of things. But the way he's naming it is related to how we are as human beings and how the world tends to get caught up in things. Report an error in the passage at 28:43 Highlight the passage at 28:43

29:17 And you can, this monk, I'm going to say the monk in the moon, it's available. There's a lovely video of this hermit talking. talking because he didn't write this down he's talking and this is from his talk and it's a it's very poetic and you get to see I love looking at that video because he has this great smile as he's talking about some very important things and so he When life begins, we are tender and weak. When life ends, we are stiff and rigid. Report an error in the passage at 29:17 Highlight the passage at 29:17

29:59 When life begins, we are tender and weak. And when life ends, we are stiff and rigid. When you're heading toward that stiffness and the rigid, you're cutting life. Report an error in the passage at 29:59 Highlight the passage at 29:59

30:13 All things, the grass, the trees, the animals in life are soft and pliant. In death, they are dry and brittle. An army that cannot yield will suffer defeat. And a tree that cannot bend will break. Report an error in the passage at 30:13 Highlight the passage at 30:13

30:38 So the soft and supple are the companions of life. While the stiff and unyielding are the companions of death. Report an error in the passage at 30:38 Highlight the passage at 30:38

31:00 Surrender brings perfection. Embrace emptiness and the whole universe is yours. The sage becomes nothing and gains everything. Report an error in the passage at 31:00 Highlight the passage at 31:00

31:14 Not displaying himself, and he's using his pronoun, not displaying himself, he shines forth. Not promoting himself, he is distinguished. Not claiming reward, he gains endless merit. Not seeking glory, his glory endures. He knows to follow, so he is given command. He does not compete, so no one competes with him. Report an error in the passage at 31:14 Highlight the passage at 31:14

31:41 Such a being rides upon the clouds and enters the sun, passing out of this world with ease and into the eternal. Fear nothing except the failure to experience your true nature. Speak nothing unless you have lived it first. The gate of heaven is wide open with not a single obstruction before it. I sometimes wonder, when will I wake up? Report an error in the passage at 31:41 Highlight the passage at 31:41

32:16 wake up to see that there is truly nothing to fear i sometimes wonder if i'm a person Report an error in the passage at 32:16 Highlight the passage at 32:16

32:34 What can I say that hasn't been said already? What can I do that hasn't already been done? The joy is simple, simply in the being. The joy is simply in the being, not being this or that. I like to watch the sun in the morning and the moon watches over me at night. Report an error in the passage at 32:34 Highlight the passage at 32:34

33:00 We can be all we want to be, or we can live our lives in a restful repose and not trying to be. And Report an error in the passage at 33:00 Highlight the passage at 33:00

33:13 in that, you know, trusting all that you do. This and that. And to see it too. Report an error in the passage at 33:13 Highlight the passage at 33:13

33:25 The response to the human condition, to the trouble and the suffering we have in this world arise from you and not come out of your habits, your toolboxes, which you've been taught along the way. Report an error in the passage at 33:25 Highlight the passage at 33:25

33:41 Every time I come to speak, I must speak from the place of now, in the moment. And it's really hard to do. Report an error in the passage at 33:41 Highlight the passage at 33:41

33:53 It's really hard because what's going to happen if I don't come with everything? Report an error in the passage at 33:53 Highlight the passage at 33:53

34:06 Because I want to allow this time not only to be me, but to include you. Where can you fit in what I'm sharing and engaging? Leaving it open enough so that you are in this rather than just me. Report an error in the passage at 34:06 Highlight the passage at 34:06

34:21 banking something into you. Report an error in the passage at 34:21 Highlight the passage at 34:21

34:28 describing how it should be but engaging and asking each other how what is it we can do Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the dharma. Report an error in the passage at 34:28 Highlight the passage at 34:28

34:50 For more information visit sfzc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the dharma. Report an error in the passage at 34:50 Highlight the passage at 34:50