Dhammaloka Book Club: "Holly Jolly Joey"

0:00 Okay, so it's 4.30, so we might make a start, waiting for a few more people to come. In fact, I hope they come, because I interviewed them during the week and said, could you play a part? So one of the Sunday school teachers, Lili, is coming, and hopefully she might bring one or two of her children with her, because they had specific meditations that would really work for them. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:27 So I'll put a couple of chairs there. So we could discuss it and kind of shared what helped. So my name's Venerable Mettaji. Report an error in the passage at 0:27 Highlight the passage at 0:27

0:40 I was asked to do a book club on Holy Jolly Joey, so had a really good look at that. There are copies available at Dharmaloka if people would like to have them, but you can also write, and I think we can sort of post them out from the bookshop. Report an error in the passage at 0:40 Highlight the passage at 0:40

1:01 I did a fair bit of research to kind of understand how the book came about. So it's been produced by a Hipastico Foundation in Indonesia. And I had the benefit of interviewing Kartika, who was one of the people who helped it put together. And a nice part of the story was Report an error in the passage at 1:01 Highlight the passage at 1:01

1:28 Indonesia wanted to put it together with the Sunday school teachers here. I didn't know that the idea actually came from the Sunday school in the Buddhist Society of Western Australia. And the idea was to have meditations that would really benefit kids. And they decided to put the book into three sections. Report an error in the passage at 1:28 Highlight the passage at 1:28

1:54 So the parent or the A child could pick which meditation was appropriate for what they were dealing with. So one section, page 23, that's be relaxed. The next section, the second section is called be love. And the third section is be wise. So a child can pick which one they wanted to do. Before we got onto those meditations, I kind of reflected as a parent and also now a grandparent myself, how I would go about this. Report an error in the passage at 1:54 Highlight the passage at 1:54

2:41 Because even when you're a teacher trying to look after a student or a parent looking after a child, it can actually be a big responsibility. Report an error in the passage at 2:41 Highlight the passage at 2:41

2:51 Because you can teach a child good things, you can accidentally teach them... Bad things as well, yeah? And because I'm, you know, a monastic monk now, I kind of wanted to have a conversation with a Sunday school teacher that happened to be a parent, and the kids, if you'll pick up the microphone when you get a chance, and sort of tell us what works for you and why you think it sort of works for you, the benefits that you get from it, because people will be watching out there in the world. Report an error in the passage at 2:51 Highlight the passage at 2:51

3:27 And they're free to send in questions if they want to. But also, it was nice to discover that the book is used in the Sunday schools they have in Indonesia, and it has been used by the teacher Lili here. Report an error in the passage at 3:27 Highlight the passage at 3:27

3:46 And sometimes, Report an error in the passage at 3:46 Highlight the passage at 3:46

3:51 I think it's really important, coming from a monastic, like, how can I engage with a child you know how can i be involved um recently we decided that all monastics should have a working with children card so i was one of the first but now there'll be 24 from bodhinyana and there'll be a lot of nuns as well who are happy to come in and sort of teach the sunday school um but Even when I'm asked to teach this Sunday school, I taught six times last year, I wanted to know from the teachers or the kids what it was they wanted to be taught because there's quite a range of things in Buddhism and it's Report an error in the passage at 3:51 Highlight the passage at 3:51

4:46 hard to start with a child and say what age is that child and what would be appropriate because you don't know where that child is at in their development at school. school, their home life, or even sort of why they would come to a monastery. Report an error in the passage at 4:46 Highlight the passage at 4:46

5:06 I reflected on the fact that now as a grandfather, I've only seen the little girl a few times because she's over in Queensland. Her name's Eliana. But I would try and have a Zoom call with Eliana once a month. And I wanted to find a way to engage with her and put her at ease. Report an error in the passage at 5:06 Highlight the passage at 5:06

5:31 My granddaughter, and see how things developed. So very early on, I decided that I should get her to call me monkey, because monk was in there, and I looked like a monkey, and I could probably act like a monkey. You know, I could have fun without breaking any precepts. And every time she saw this big bloke in brown that only had one set of clothes, then she would know, you know, that that was monkey. Report an error in the passage at 5:31 Highlight the passage at 5:31

6:03 And developed a conversation then about, you know, how was she going at school and how did she make herself peaceful when things were very difficult. Report an error in the passage at 6:03 Highlight the passage at 6:03

6:18 And a lovely side story that touched me is some monks must have overheard me having these sessions with Eliana. And one of the monks said, you know, when I was about 12 or 13 and I was going through a rough patch, My parents got me this monkey. I'd like to give that monkey to you to give Eliana. So the monkey was packaged up, and I think Dharmaloka kindly sent it off to Eliana. Report an error in the passage at 6:18 Highlight the passage at 6:18

6:46 So then she had a physical monkey that she could carry around, and when she was going through difficult times, it could be like a meditation tool for her. Hi, Lili, would you like to come up front during the conversation? because I wanted to get some principles about what was being taught in the Sunday schools using this book for the audience at the front So, a context in using this book, or even... Report an error in the passage at 6:46 Highlight the passage at 6:46

7:21 how to think about teaching Dharma to young kids, middle kids, and yeah, please sit there. And thanks for coming with your mum. Have a seat there as well if you'd like. Yeah. Report an error in the passage at 7:21 Highlight the passage at 7:21

7:36 Doing that is, all of us can model virtuous behavior, yeah, in everything we do. And by virtuous behavior, I mean sort of kindness, compassion, and honesty. Because taking on that responsibility of trying to teach dharma to the kids, kids are going to pick up on your behavior initially more. more than being able to notice what their own behavior is they've they've got young minds they may have um a low attention span which is something that was written up you know in the the beginning of the book. Report an error in the passage at 7:36 Highlight the passage at 7:36

8:20 So, Lili, you kindly mentioned when I interviewed you during the week that you've been using this in the Dharma school. So, before we got into some meditations, can you say your experience with it? And if the kids are prepared to talk. Report an error in the passage at 8:20 Highlight the passage at 8:20

8:36 For a couple of minutes, explain which meditations they like and why. Report an error in the passage at 8:36 Highlight the passage at 8:36

8:44 It should be on. Hello, Report an error in the passage at 8:44 Highlight the passage at 8:44

8:53 hi. So my name is Lily and I started being involved in the Dharma school last year. So I've got two children, Zazen and Arazen, and they have been attending the Dharma school for I think more than two years now. And there was a shortage of... So I thought, you know, I'll try it out. And so that's how I got involved. So there's a set sort of topic to teach, and we normally start with a short meditation. Report an error in the passage at 8:53 Highlight the passage at 8:53

9:26 So then I thought, I've got this book that's been sitting in my drawer for a while, and I thought I'll start to use it. So normally I like to do some really fun meditation with the kids. Report an error in the passage at 9:26 Highlight the passage at 9:26

9:41 To be honest, I have to declare I haven't actually been teaching that many classes. But normally I like to start with a fun sort of meditation. Report an error in the passage at 9:41 Highlight the passage at 9:41

9:52 So we did a few. I think one of the ones that, the recent one we did was the silly face meditation. And I find it a good sort of icebreaker for the children to have a good laugh and then we'll start the class with, you know. meditation. Report an error in the passage at 9:52 Highlight the passage at 9:52

10:11 the topics assigned So, and also we did a few other ones. Oh, there's another one I like. I think it's about the smile meditation. And I think that's Ajahn Brahm's meditation where you stand in front of the mirror in the morning and you do a little bit of gym uplifting. Report an error in the passage at 10:11 Highlight the passage at 10:11

10:39 Your mouth for 10 times, 20 times every morning. Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah. It's like Jan Brahm's version of doing push-ups. It's his exercise. He gets his exercise over early in the morning. So, yeah, so I think, yeah, those are probably the fun ones that we start. The other one that I introduced for the kids was the sound meditation where... Report an error in the passage at 10:39 Highlight the passage at 10:39

11:07 We get them to sit in the class and just listen to the sound and just develop that mindfulness of sound. And then just share that at the end of that five minutes, three minutes. I think that's all the attention the kids can tolerate for the time being. So I try to introduce meditation for my own children and I find it challenging. Report an error in the passage at 11:07 Highlight the passage at 11:07

11:34 So as you can see, they've got very short attention spans, so where do you start? And for me, I think if they can tolerate just listening to the short instructions, even for 30 seconds, I'm very happy. If they can just follow through the 30 seconds where they can just sit and listen and have some fun. So that's how I thought the usefulness of this book and introduction of meditation for children. Report an error in the passage at 11:34 Highlight the passage at 11:34

12:03 So to be clear, I mean, that's what Kartika told me in Indonesia, that they developed the book with BSWA to have an activity that a child could do, you know, either if they were very restless or if they were upset, yeah? So if you're interested in getting the book... The initial part is really helpful because it kind of sets the context as we were talking about just now. Give some thought as to what you want the meditation to achieve. Report an error in the passage at 12:03 Highlight the passage at 12:03

12:44 So at the front it talks about this kangaroo, Joey, called Joey in the book, being born and then how it's really excited about life. But it also gets quite scared and says, I need mummy to hold me tight at times and teach me how to meditate so I know how I can move back to happiness, away from suffering. Report an error in the passage at 12:44 Highlight the passage at 12:44

13:17 Or if I get scared or sad, how can I do something that will help myself? And the story that is at the start of the book talks about Joey. Trying to do an experiment with a jar of water. Joey's been to the park, grabs a jar of water and likes cooking, so he goes and gets some mud and algae from the park and puts it in the jar and stirs it all up. Report an error in the passage at 13:17 Highlight the passage at 13:17

13:52 And he noticed that the water in the jar changes, that it becomes very muddy brown, it's rocking and boiling, it becomes a tornado. And he gets quite scared. In terms of what he is caused to happen. And he realizes that he can't see the inside and he sees the water is dirty and the emotion is, well, I'm not happy about that. Report an error in the passage at 13:52 Highlight the passage at 13:52

14:18 So he tries to stir and boil the water again and again, but that makes it worse. It gets less clear. The water becomes more and more murky. So after a time, he's exhausted and he sits down. And he's still, and he starts to feel relaxed. And when he looks back at the jar, the mud has settled to the bottom. Now he can see fairly clearly. Report an error in the passage at 14:18 Highlight the passage at 14:18

14:44 There's no scary tornado. The algae hasn't mixed with the water. The water's clear. And he can see straight to the bottom and feels calm, happy, and relaxed. Report an error in the passage at 14:44 Highlight the passage at 14:44

14:58 Now that's just a simile, isn't it? It's just a story saying... Events can happen in your life. You can get stirred up by all sorts of things. You can choose to react, and if you react in a certain way, you can make it worse. Report an error in the passage at 14:58 Highlight the passage at 14:58

15:13 If you can detach yourself from it a little bit and look at the problem from a distance, you can approach it in a relaxed manner, be calm, and go, oh, nature sometimes sorts itself out without me having to get involved. Report an error in the passage at 15:13 Highlight the passage at 15:13

15:31 So would you like to pick one of your favorite meditations? Would you like to do it, Lili? Or would one of the children like to lead us in a meditation? Report an error in the passage at 15:31 Highlight the passage at 15:31

15:46 Yeah, I'll probably pick... Do you want to pick some one, Zazen? Which one? You pick one. We can do it and try that. Have you got one favorite for yourself, Ajahn? Well, if I go first, it might sort of... It encourages the kids, so... If you go through the introduction at the front of the book, then it might say, ah, today, and it might be the parent wants to learn the meditation first, because if you do it with the child, that's probably better than saying, there's the book, go pick one yourself, or I'm going to go watch Netflix, but you go sort yourself out. Report an error in the passage at 15:46 Highlight the passage at 15:46

16:27 So I think it's a very good principle if you can gradually, you can see from my conversation with Lili, I knew which ones that she was going to talk about, and she knew which ones had helped both children. So let's use one that kind of helped me set the context that, you know, it's also a monk being involved here. Report an error in the passage at 16:27 Highlight the passage at 16:27

16:50 There's one called Be Like the Buddha. So if everybody closes their eyes, if you kind of humor me and go along with it, and then the point of doing the meditation is to talk about it afterwards and say, Does that reflect? Does it help the parent? Does it help the child? And like Ajahn Brahm recommends with a number of meditations, do the meditation, but at the end of the meditation ask yourself whether you feel better or more relaxed at the end. Report an error in the passage at 16:50 Highlight the passage at 16:50

17:22 Kind of reflect on the state. And if children in particular are prepared to say what they learned from it, then you've got clues, clues from their mind. As to what might help in future. But of course a meditation is never going to be a panacea for everything that's happening in somebody's life. You might need to pick another one a different time. Report an error in the passage at 17:22 Highlight the passage at 17:22

17:45 So go along first with me if you would. So make yourself comfortable. Close your eyes. And this is called Be a Buddha Meditation. Report an error in the passage at 17:45 Highlight the passage at 17:45

17:58 I know Ajahn Brahm has used this a number of times in school settings overseas. So if you close your eyes, there's an introduction and then I sort of will kind of guide you through the meditation. Report an error in the passage at 17:58 Highlight the passage at 17:58

18:16 So this is like me reading to my grandchild Eliana. Once upon a time, there was a prince who became a Buddha while meditating under a big Bodhi tree in a grove. Report an error in the passage at 18:16 Highlight the passage at 18:16

18:32 To be a Buddha means that he'd become completely free. Report an error in the passage at 18:32 Highlight the passage at 18:32

18:39 Free from wanting, free from hatred, free from worry, free from suffering. Report an error in the passage at 18:39 Highlight the passage at 18:39

18:52 It must feel so peaceful that way. Report an error in the passage at 18:52 Highlight the passage at 18:52

18:59 It must be so free and peaceful to be a Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 18:59 Highlight the passage at 18:59

19:06 Let's pretend that you are that prince who has just become a Buddha so we can feel the freedom, happiness and peace of the Buddha for a little while. Report an error in the passage at 19:06 Highlight the passage at 19:06

19:24 So this is where the meditation starts proper. Firstly, be kind to your own body and sit in a comfortable place. Report an error in the passage at 19:24 Highlight the passage at 19:24

19:39 Make sure you can sit comfortably and silently and quietly just for a few minutes. Report an error in the passage at 19:39 Highlight the passage at 19:39

19:59 Feel some love and kindness to your body. Report an error in the passage at 19:59 Highlight the passage at 19:59

20:15 When you're comfortable, imagine you're the Buddha sitting under the Bodhi tree. 2,600 years ago. Report an error in the passage at 20:15 Highlight the passage at 20:15

20:37 You can hear the sound of the birds around the Bodhi tree. Report an error in the passage at 20:37 Highlight the passage at 20:37

20:50 You're under the cool shade of a tree. Report an error in the passage at 20:50 Highlight the passage at 20:50

20:59 Imagine the sound of the water from the Narangila River nearby. Report an error in the passage at 20:59 Highlight the passage at 20:59

21:28 It's early in the morning. You've just become a Buddha. Imagine what that must feel like. Report an error in the passage at 21:28 Highlight the passage at 21:28

21:44 There's nothing more to be done. Report an error in the passage at 21:44 Highlight the passage at 21:44

21:54 You feel free. Nothing to worry about. Report an error in the passage at 21:54 Highlight the passage at 21:54

22:10 What anyone says about you is just like the wind, it doesn't disturb you. Report an error in the passage at 22:10 Highlight the passage at 22:10

22:19 You're free. Report an error in the passage at 22:19 Highlight the passage at 22:19

· · · silence, 1 minute

23:21 You Report an error in the passage at 23:21 Highlight the passage at 23:21

23:35 have no ill will to anyone. You're free. All your wanting is gone. Report an error in the passage at 23:35 Highlight the passage at 23:35

22:40 You're free from desire. You're free. Report an error in the passage at 22:40 Highlight the passage at 22:40

22:59 Nothing is tense in your body or your mind. Report an error in the passage at 22:59 Highlight the passage at 22:59

23:16 Nothing to chase, nothing to get rid of. Report an error in the passage at 23:16 Highlight the passage at 23:16

· · · silence, 1 minute

23:55 Your mind becomes so peaceful. Report an error in the passage at 23:55 Highlight the passage at 23:55

24:11 Many obstacles that you normally felt are not there anymore. You're Report an error in the passage at 24:11 Highlight the passage at 24:11

24:32 enlightened. You're free. Report an error in the passage at 24:32 Highlight the passage at 24:32

24:51 Under the Bodhi tree, you're alone, but you're not missing anything. Report an error in the passage at 24:51 Highlight the passage at 24:51

25:05 Just rest and ease and peace. So Report an error in the passage at 25:05 Highlight the passage at 25:05

25:32 take some happy, peaceful, deep breaths and then slowly open your eyes. Report an error in the passage at 25:32 Highlight the passage at 25:32

25:52 How did it go for the kids? Have you heard that one before? Report an error in the passage at 25:52 Highlight the passage at 25:52

26:01 Did it make you feel peaceful? Report an error in the passage at 26:01 Highlight the passage at 26:01

26:08 Any other kids want to say anything? Does that type of meditation help? Report an error in the passage at 26:08 Highlight the passage at 26:08

26:22 I shortened it a little bit because at the end there you could just sit with the child a little bit longer and say you can stay with the peace as much as you want because if the child can find peace in their self then you'd want that to grow. Report an error in the passage at 26:22 Highlight the passage at 26:22

26:41 If they understand that there's a tool now in their life that they can change an emotion or bring themselves into balance or ease fairly quickly, that's really helpful for their life generally. Report an error in the passage at 26:41 Highlight the passage at 26:41

27:00 Can I hear what you like about meditation or would you just say a few things into the microphone if we give you the microphone? Thank you. Thanks for participating. Report an error in the passage at 27:00 Highlight the passage at 27:00

27:16 I've been coming to BSWA for four years now. Meditation just helps you calm your emotions, be in the present moment and mindfulness. Report an error in the passage at 27:16 Highlight the passage at 27:16

27:33 And how would you explain that to a friend? If you had a friend at school that was suffering or you noticed a mate in the Sunday school wasn't traveling well, how would you try and describe your great wisdom to them? Report an error in the passage at 27:33 Highlight the passage at 27:33

27:49 I would just tell them that it's a way of calming yourself. It's not like going into some deep stuff. It's just like being still, being with you. And when you got to learn that skill, did you find that it improved your life? Did it help at home, at school, playing sports? It helps when life takes a turn, yeah. Report an error in the passage at 27:49 Highlight the passage at 27:49

28:18 Thanks for sharing. Would you like to share? No? Really? Yeah. Sassen, you want to share now? Can I share your experience of your meditation, the mettā meditation? Report an error in the passage at 28:18 Highlight the passage at 28:18

28:40 So I've been doing mettā meditation with Sassen at night time, just the very simple, may I be well, may I be free from suffering, may I look after myself, and then may mummy and daddy be well, may mummy and daddy be free from suffering, may mummy and daddy. Look after themselves happily. And then extend to our pet, her brother, and explaining the benefit of mettā meditation with love and kindness that it normally would generate a positive energy and good things will just flow from there. Report an error in the passage at 28:40 Highlight the passage at 28:40

29:18 So I was doing that with Zazen for a while and one day Zazen had to go for a swimming carnival. And that caused quite a lot of anxiety before the swimming carnival. And she came back to me and asked, oh, how was your swimming carnival? And she said, oh, you know, it was, yeah, it was, I feel anxious. And I said, but, you know, in my mind, I was thinking about love, love, love, love, love. Report an error in the passage at 29:18 Highlight the passage at 29:18

29:47 So I was quite surprised that things that I talked to her about before bedtime that she's starting to apply in her. She did that with a sports carnival as well. So I think as a mom, you don't know how much your child absorbs. You tell them so many things and you actually don't know how much they absorb. Report an error in the passage at 29:47 Highlight the passage at 29:47

30:19 But sometimes they surprise you with the things that you teach them and the modeling that... It may flow through, and sometimes they just click. They just click, and they can apply some of the things that you teach them. Yeah, so that's sort of just something that I want to share as a mom. So I don't know how much I teach them that they would use or apply, so that I thought, oh, okay, that's quite nice to hear that she uses this loving kindness when she's anxious and apply that. Report an error in the passage at 30:19 Highlight the passage at 30:19

30:54 Yeah. And the other thing that I think we talk about and I want to share is the software that I use for my children before they go to bed. It's sort of a mindfulness. It's not similar to this type of meditation, but it's a free app that you can use for young children, as young as three years old. It's sort of just... Report an error in the passage at 30:54 Highlight the passage at 30:54

31:20 Mindfulness, like watching the clouds, floating with the clouds, or something similar. What was it called again? Smiling Mind. Smiling Mind. Smiling Mind is a free app, and some of the teachers in New South Wales actually use it as part of their everyday classroom. Mindfulness, sort of just a time out for the children to just stop and just have this mindfulness, just to calm down. Report an error in the passage at 31:20 Highlight the passage at 31:20

31:45 So I use that for... Zazen a lot because she does have sort of problems to settle down at night because the mind is so active it's like oh mama I can't sleep so I'll sort of play that I think her favourite is floating on the clouds and then she just drift into she could just calm down and get the active mind down So those reflections are really helpful. Report an error in the passage at 31:45 Highlight the passage at 31:45

32:16 I like what you said because I've got two children. They'll be 30 and 28 shortly, boy and a girl. But their personalities are very different. And in terms of trying to speak to them, even as a parent, you had to get into the wavelength of what is troubling them right now and where is that energy coming from. Report an error in the passage at 32:16 Highlight the passage at 32:16

32:44 Are they worried? Are they sad? Are they depressed? Are they agitated? And the reason for bringing that up is in the conversation with Kartika, she says, well, if we notice that somebody comes to Sunday school and they're really agitated, we try and find a meditation in here that might help them. Report an error in the passage at 32:44 Highlight the passage at 32:44

33:07 But we won't know what has caused the agitation. We can't take responsibility for... The parents' role, or we shouldn't interfere because we could do the wrong thing. So what I wanted to mention, hitchhiking and what you said, is there's one in here called the orange juice meditation. Report an error in the passage at 33:07 Highlight the passage at 33:07

33:27 And I think we might do that next to give you a sense of... So the Buddha was a calming one, but this is being told to me on page 32, as one to try and get some physical... But quite tightly controlled physical activity into a meditation and see if it helps. So you can offer a meditation and there's feedback for the child, but there's also feedback for the parent or the carer in terms of, oh, that was the wrong meditation to suggest, but I'm still trying to find what mind state might help, what might make somebody calm, or even go to a happy mood for a sad and depressed one. Report an error in the passage at 33:27 Highlight the passage at 33:27

34:13 So I might just read this one out, but if you understand it's a meditation, and then the kids and the parents might want to give me feedback. So, cartoon there of a joey slurping on some orange juice, but it says, drinking a glass of orange juice is so refreshing, especially if I make it myself. Let's make orange juice together. That's the point of the meditation. Find a nice place to sit or lie down. Report an error in the passage at 34:13 Highlight the passage at 34:13

34:43 Be comfortable. Close your eyes gently. Put your hands in your lap or on the side of the body if you're lying down. Take three deep and gentle breaths. And then imagine in each hand there is a half-cut orange. Squeeze the orange on your right palm tightly. Report an error in the passage at 34:43 Highlight the passage at 34:43

35:08 Then slowly open your palm to feel the sensation of your palm as you open it. Squeeze the orange on your left palm tightly. Report an error in the passage at 35:08 Highlight the passage at 35:08

35:20 Slowly open the palm and feel the sensation on the palm as you open it. Squeeze the orange with both hands at the same time. Report an error in the passage at 35:20 Highlight the passage at 35:20

35:33 Slowly open both hands and feel the sensation on your palms as you open them. But there's some juice left in the orange still, so squeeze them again until there's no more juice left. Report an error in the passage at 35:33 Highlight the passage at 35:33

35:51 Slowly open both hands and feel the sensations on your palm again as you open them. Report an error in the passage at 35:51 Highlight the passage at 35:51

35:59 Now turn your hands downward. With the orange in each hand. Now imagine that you've just made that into a glass half full of orange juice that you've squeezed. And squeeze out every last drop of juice into the glass. You can move your arms as if you're doing the following things. Imagine taking ice cubes from a fridge and put them into the glass and stir them around. Report an error in the passage at 35:59 Highlight the passage at 35:59

36:34 And now in your mind, you can imagine drinking the orange juice, enjoying the freshness and the taste and saying, ah, you can drink or make the orange juice again and again in your mind whenever you want. And the purpose of the meditation will help you feel more relaxed and more energized at the same time. You can do this meditation anytime you feel bored or tired or restless. Report an error in the passage at 36:34 Highlight the passage at 36:34

37:06 Does that go along with what you found in the classes, Lili? Report an error in the passage at 37:06 Highlight the passage at 37:06

37:17 I think I'm very new in teaching children. And, yes, kids, they're restless. There's so much energy in them. They just have to spend it. So I'll be happy if I could just get half an hour of their attention span. So, yeah. So the thing I picked up from Kartika in Indonesia is, If they have a sense that the class isn't going too well or there's one person in particular who's struggling, then they can say, well, why don't we go into a side room and do a meditation? Report an error in the passage at 37:17 Highlight the passage at 37:17

37:55 And the reason I kind of like this story is, again, is trying to tune into what's best for the child. Not necessarily best for me as a parent or a grandparent, but what's best for the child. And having done that meditation with someone, I would ask them, what sensations did they notice? So the point of contracting and releasing is, well, you might feel really tense inside, but you can always let it go any time you want. Report an error in the passage at 37:55 Highlight the passage at 37:55

38:29 Or, no, I hate orange juice, Dad. Can I make a cake? So you just substitute, you know, in the sense of, what is it something that would be fun, relaxing? And you can see there's a bodily reaction for the child, but more importantly, you know, leads to a peaceful mind. So I've been sharing for a little while. Report an error in the passage at 38:29 Highlight the passage at 38:29

38:54 Does anybody have any observations as parents or what's worked or questions they'd like to ask at this part? I think we've got another 20 minutes. Does anybody want to ask a question or can we pass the mic? So Manel's going to come to you with the mic, if you would. Would you share your name? Report an error in the passage at 38:54 Highlight the passage at 38:54

39:20 My name's Kane. I don't have any children, just here out of interest. Curious, is there a difference between boys and girls in your experience? That's to both of you. My experience with boys and girls can be very different because I've got a boy and I've got a girl. So my experience as a mum raising a boy and a girl is totally different. Report an error in the passage at 39:20 Highlight the passage at 39:20

39:52 You can have the typical stories where you hear, oh, yeah, girls are very settled. My experience is probably that way. Girls, they mature faster generally, and more settled boys have got a lot of energy. And I think finding the different type of meditation for a girl and a boy can be a meditation that might suit my daughter. Report an error in the passage at 39:52 Highlight the passage at 39:52

40:21 May not suit him. So just finding that different meditation for different personality. And also I think, I guess, regardless of their gender, their personality matters in which meditation would suit a particular child. So, and I think it's, yeah, trying to match that will be important. Probably I think for more active children, more concrete. Report an error in the passage at 40:21 Highlight the passage at 40:21

40:48 Meditation, like if they could feel it, touch it, see it, probably, you know, where you involve the mortal movement, the physical, that's how I think they can touch, feel, then that can help them. And I think more abstract type of meditation will imagine this or imagine that. It's probably for older children and also people who have got the ability to think in an imagined or an abstract thinking. Report an error in the passage at 40:48 Highlight the passage at 40:48

41:15 So I think for younger children, more... more physical, more concrete type of meditation, I find probably would be For my experience, I was lucky just before I became a father that this wise father gave me some great advice. Well, two or three pieces of advice. One is, males would never understand what females go through in terms of producing a child and childbirth and the like. Report an error in the passage at 41:15 Highlight the passage at 41:15

41:48 so. Males need to reflect the amount of work that the female has gone through, the hardship, physical and mental, during the nine months. Report an error in the passage at 41:48 Highlight the passage at 41:48

42:02 The other thing that touched me was this guy said to me very clearly, there's the moment before you become a father and there's a moment just after you become a father, and it's very different. But a non-father can't explain it to a father. And it happened. It happened that I felt with both children, the boy and the girl, they immediately came with their own personalities. Report an error in the passage at 42:02 Highlight the passage at 42:02

42:32 Their personality was there almost from the same second, and it seems to have just kept going, which kind of fits with Buddhist cosmology for me. If you're reborn, you're sort of coming with your karma and your consciousness. But to Lili's point then, whether it's a boy or a girl, each child can be very different. Report an error in the passage at 42:32 Highlight the passage at 42:32

42:57 So children come to the monastery, but we have to try and sort of cue in how they're traveling, what it is. And the moms say, oh, Ajahn Brahm, will you talk to my child? You know, they've been really naughty at school. And he'll go, are you having a great time at school? How are you? He's not going to interfere. He's going to try and interact with the child and find out what's going on for them. Report an error in the passage at 42:57 Highlight the passage at 42:57

43:25 Yeah, because if you can't connect, I mean, the first couple of times I went to Sunday school next door, I kind of felt some of the students were scared of me. Because I was sitting on the chair and I was up a bit and I was a large guy and some of the parents might say, the monastic's coming, pay respect, pay respect. Report an error in the passage at 43:25 Highlight the passage at 43:25

43:48 I wanted to get down on the floor and sort of roll around and say, well, I was a child once and like Ajahn Brahm, you know, I've got a sense of humour. I'll try and be sort of careful with the sense of humour, but my role in coming today to teach Sunday school is to help you with what you need. Report an error in the passage at 43:48 Highlight the passage at 43:48

44:08 It's hopeless me giving you sort of commandments or say be like this or be like that. And the great kids in the senior class that again I saw six times last year, they all had their different perspectives on life based on where they were at. And some could sit still during the hour and others were running around and needed to. Report an error in the passage at 44:08 Highlight the passage at 44:08

44:33 If they're running around, that's where they're at at the moment. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I was a tall guy. I was about almost six foot when I was 12. So I was a runner. I was a sprinter. And I found getting the running out of my system before I did the homework was better than doing the homework and then going for a run. Report an error in the passage at 44:33 Highlight the passage at 44:33

44:57 I had got a lot of energy out of my body if I needed to sort of sit down, you know, with the schoolwork. And I could get a joy out of both. Didn't enjoy homework so much. I couldn't see the benefit as a young kid. And the other story I'll tell, because this only happened yesterday with my son, and it's a point I wanted to make at the end of the session. Report an error in the passage at 44:57 Highlight the passage at 44:57

45:22 When I was a child in the UK, we had two TV channels. There were only two TV channels. It was black and white. And if you wanted to change the TV channel, you had to go up and press a button. You had to push the button in to change the channel. And there were four of us in the house, mum and three males, my father and a brother. And the arguments over who would get to win to have the one channel. Report an error in the passage at 45:22 Highlight the passage at 45:22

45:51 And my point to my son was... How much stimulus there is in the world now compared to when I was 12 or 13. And yet there was a fight over two channels and it was black and white. And most of the TV then, and even now, if I can say it respectfully, is fairly rubbish. It can actually stimulate you more. Report an error in the passage at 45:51 Highlight the passage at 45:51

46:16 So I've been trying to encourage him for years to say... Can you go to a peaceful place even if you have to go out for a walk in nature? He lives in a very nice place, a nature place called Tambourine Mountain behind the Gold Coast. But I could, monks can't put money down, but I'd say, I don't think he'd been in seven or eight of those parks ever. In the eight years he'd been there. Report an error in the passage at 46:16 Highlight the passage at 46:16

46:44 He will go to a scream. He'll kind of say... My mind state can be improved by watching something or kind of phoning a friend. And the point of yesterday's conversation, again without me being like adults, a child, parents saying you must do this, is to say most people in the present age don't value silence and stillness. Report an error in the passage at 46:44 Highlight the passage at 46:44

47:09 So silence and stillness is kind of really helpful when you say... Whether I want to do that or not, I'm going to find 30 minutes today. Because after you've done it for two or three weeks, you kind of notice, I kind of felt better after the silence. I kind of got more done after the silence and stillness. And it was an antidote to everything. I don't have to buy a ticket for the cinema, go and get an ice cream. Report an error in the passage at 47:09 Highlight the passage at 47:09

47:38 It comes for free. And the Buddha's pointing the only safety you can get in life is inside. And all the problems stem from the mind. So if you've got meditations that kind of help and say, hang on a second, I've been driven around by my senses and mind lifetime after lifetime. How do I start to see how they're kind of working and how they affect me? One set of monks that I found really impressive. Report an error in the passage at 47:38 Highlight the passage at 47:38

48:10 They call the mind and the body the sixth sense animal. It is mentioned in some suttas, right? But each sense has its own desires. Eyes want to see things, and if they see things, they might go, I have a pleasant experience from that football team. I want to see more of that football team. Or that type of ice cream is really going to give me a pleasant feeling on the tongue. But those are sense pleasures out in the world. Report an error in the passage at 48:10 Highlight the passage at 48:10

48:38 That doesn't show you what the Buddha is pointing to, that all the problems stem from the mind. They can't leave the mind. It's the mind that you have to tame to even have a pleasant life in this experience. Does that answer your question? Yeah, so if you have like a wild horse or a little boy, quite often you have to give them a field to run around in first, right? Report an error in the passage at 48:38 Highlight the passage at 48:38

49:05 Like you suggested, when you were young, you liked to run. and then you felt calm. Report an error in the passage at 49:05 Highlight the passage at 49:05

49:13 I don't quite entirely agree. I used to think like that. The suttas that I found really helpful, the Buddha makes the comparison between a mind that is a wild cult and the mind that is a thoroughbred. And the Buddha says, look, there's two aspects to mind. There's the mind that we take as our intellect, what we use to think. Report an error in the passage at 49:13 Highlight the passage at 49:13

49:39 But there's another mind, which is the wild animal, which is chitta, which is where your feelings sit. And you can't see chitta. You've not looked for it because you're out in the world all the time craving for something. So the difference between the wild goat and the thoroughbred is they both go to the feeding trough on a daily basis. Report an error in the passage at 49:39 Highlight the passage at 49:39

50:01 But the thoroughbred says, I wonder what my owner is going to do with me today. I wonder what they're going to force me to do. I wonder what they're going to tempt me to do. The wild goat just keeps running around and doesn't realize that in experience, for you to have any experience, the mind and the senses have to be active. Report an error in the passage at 50:01 Highlight the passage at 50:01

50:24 And you have to find a way to tame it. That's why I was interested in doing this. The meditations can be a start point to help the kids. But at some stage, the parents will need to say there's deeper dharma at play. So the Buddha says the only way that you can meditate properly is if you've got a lot of sense, desire, and virtue. Report an error in the passage at 50:24 Highlight the passage at 50:24

50:46 These are all kind of really helpful, but if someone says, all right, mom, I'll do a meditation with you for five minutes, but then I want to go on my game, my video game for two hours, or, you know, Watch a soccer match with Dad. He said I could stay up till 10 o 'clock. My normal bedtime is 8, but we're going to stay up till 10. Mum's done a great job helping with the meditation. Report an error in the passage at 50:46 Highlight the passage at 50:46

51:12 The child is more agitated when they go to bed and going, Dad, can you tell me a story about your football team 10 years ago? They try and tempt you to give them more. Their mind state has changed, yeah? And, you know, as parents, I say, oh, they're playing a game. I just wanted them to settle down and go to bed on their own. Report an error in the passage at 51:12 Highlight the passage at 51:12

51:32 But they went out and grasped something in the world and said, that's going to give me more pleasure. I haven't really understood the benefit meditation yet. Does that make sense? Report an error in the passage at 51:32 Highlight the passage at 51:32

51:46 I think I find it really challenging these days in this electronic world because there's just so much stimulus and it's endless. And you don't have to press the TV anymore. It's just there. So I think being a parent, being a mom, I find it... Very challenging to try to explain or restrict their screen time while they're young and to tell them why or get them to understand why I'm doing this because they don't. Report an error in the passage at 51:46 Highlight the passage at 51:46

52:19 They don't understand. And they do not want to be bored. They want to be on the electronic stuff all the time because it's non-stop. Even the program they choose to watch, the screen, Report an error in the passage at 52:19 Highlight the passage at 52:19

52:35 The amount of images per minute, per second, it's astonishing. It's non-stop stimulus, everything, the visual, the audio, and kids grow up this way. Report an error in the passage at 52:35 Highlight the passage at 52:35

52:49 So I guess, do you have any, you know, advice? You heard about the Joey, didn't you? I've got my own Joey now. Raising kids, so it's... It's incredibly hard, challenging. You know, you try so hard. No screen time. No, you don't do this. And then you take this book and you try to say, well, let's meditate. Report an error in the passage at 52:49 Highlight the passage at 52:49

53:11 Let's do something for 30 seconds. So I think there's a solution, but it's not an easy one. What have you tried or what would you recommend? Report an error in the passage at 53:11 Highlight the passage at 53:11

53:25 What I find is very strict boundaries. Boundaries need to be there. But it's so hard and challenging. In this modern world, being a mom and a busy mom, you know, it's so easy to say, well, look, go for your screen time, one hour, two hours, and one hour easily lead on to two, three hours because you're busy and they're settled. Report an error in the passage at 53:25 Highlight the passage at 53:25

53:44 You think they're settled. And then by the time you come back, it's like, oh, my God, you know, this many hours have passed. And then you look at the side effects of that, that they actually become more agitated. They become more aggressive after a prolonged period of screen time. Report an error in the passage at 53:44 Highlight the passage at 53:44

54:03 So I find it very challenging in the real world. In the ideal world, yes, you want to do this and that, but in the real world, I just find it actually very challenging to do that. You need the energy and you need to have the energy to actually implement your boundaries and your rules. Report an error in the passage at 54:03 Highlight the passage at 54:03

54:24 So I think it's a really important matter. I wondered if it would come up, so I brought my favorite cartoon of all time with me. So I don't know whether the camera can zoom in on this. This is a loony cartoon, famous Australian cartoonist. Unfortunately, he passed recently. And he has this normal character, and the character is looking down at a tablet or an iPhone. Report an error in the passage at 54:24 Highlight the passage at 54:24

54:55 And the iPhone is talking to the character and it says, I'm not your device, you're my device. That was true when I was 12 or 13, and it's more true now, right? And it's a very subtle piece of dharma as well is, this is a device over here as well. Because this device, wanting that all of the time, can end up more in the control of the device. Report an error in the passage at 54:55 Highlight the passage at 54:55

55:27 So just as you were arriving, I was saying the context that I would try and sort of recommend as a monastic. And I can't say I was a good parent on sort of many scores, but the child is going to look to see what the parent is doing. So if you're saying you're not allowed your devices, you're not allowed to sit quietly in your room. Report an error in the passage at 55:27 Highlight the passage at 55:27

55:56 And the child can hear the TV or Netflix or something blaring away going, hang on a minute, there's a rule for me, but there's a different rule for mum and dad. And I think that's the hard thing to do. I mean, I was fascinated when the government said that they were going to ban social media for under 16s. Report an error in the passage at 55:56 Highlight the passage at 55:56

56:15 I kind of saw where the flaw was in it, is that you need social media for your geography tests or to learn certain things. But it was a bold attempt to say, if it was taken away, would people notice that you can have it some time of the day, but if it's infected you all day long, the device has taken your life, much like a drug or alcohol will. Report an error in the passage at 56:15 Highlight the passage at 56:15

56:39 It will take your life if you don't know how to use it carefully and sensibly. Absolutely, I agree with that, yes. And that's the trend at the moment. Report an error in the passage at 56:39 Highlight the passage at 56:39

56:55 We're almost running out of time, but there are many recommendable meditations in here. If we'd have had a bit more time, the very last one in the book, which is about being mindfully mindful. So if I left one suggestion with the kids, it would be about having a look at that on page 236 and saying... Report an error in the passage at 56:55 Highlight the passage at 56:55

57:21 You don't need to judge anything in life as being good or bad. The purpose of developing your mind as the Buddha is that you realize the mind needs taming, whether it's in this lifetime or future lifetimes. And the way to tame it is to see that you're agitated for pleasure or you're agitated to push away anger. Report an error in the passage at 57:21 Highlight the passage at 57:21

57:50 In many moments, you haven't worked out where it's coming from. And lastly, because there's some good parents here, and I think there's some good parents online, I would use that book for a while, but I would love the parents, if they were practicing Buddhists, to have a conversation with their children one day on Madhyamina Kaya 61 and 62, because the Buddha had a child, and the Buddha had a child called Rahula. Report an error in the passage at 57:50 Highlight the passage at 57:50

58:21 And the first mention of Rahula in the suttas, I was going to bring it with me, I was going to bring a bowl. The Buddha is in the vicinity and Rahula is now a monk. And when Rahula hears that the Buddha is coming, he gets a bowl to wash the Buddha's feet. And the Buddha takes the opportunity to give his son, now a monastic, a teaching. Report an error in the passage at 58:21 Highlight the passage at 58:21

58:49 There's a little water left in the bowl. So the Buddha says, do you see the little bit of water left in the bowl, Rahula? And Rahula says, yes. And he said, that little of the aesthetic's nature is left if they're not ashamed of telling a deliberate lie. He uses the bowl in multiple positions to say, what I need to help you with first, as a father and a fellow monastic is, You need to be honest in all circumstances. That's why lying is one of the five precepts. And then he goes on to say, well, Rahula, what's the purpose of a mirror? Report an error in the passage at 58:49 Highlight the passage at 58:49

59:33 Well, it's for inspection, Bhante. In the same way, actions of body, speech and mind should only be done after repeated inspection. So choose your intentions before you use the device. And say, I'll be honest with myself, why do I want to go on the mobile phone or the internet right now? I want to be entertained. I'm bored. I'm angry with mum. Whatever that would be. But the point of the teaching in the second half of Madhyamakaya 61 is whether it's by body, by speech, by mind, what I'm about to do next, is that going to cause pain to me? Report an error in the passage at 59:33 Highlight the passage at 59:33

1:00:19 Or to another person. And after I've done it, whether it went well or not, reflect on why I chose to do that. So do a review. And those two things will take you an awful long way on the Buddhist path because whether you use a meditation, a device, talk to your parents, the honesty and transparency in that is what creates better kids, better adults, better friends. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:19 Highlight the passage at 1:00:19

1:00:51 Better nature of life, yeah? So perhaps that's where we finish it. There is a time limit on the YouTube, so I'll close it then. I'll just pay respects to the Buddha if you'll do that with me in a moment. But if you'd like to stay on and ask me some questions, obviously I can stay on for a little while if you just want to ask me something personally. Report an error in the passage at 1:00:51 Highlight the passage at 1:00:51

1:01:12 Thanks for coming. I hope that was a benefit to everybody online. And approach Dharmaloka if you would like to get the book. As an aged person now, I wish you well with your children. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:12 Highlight the passage at 1:01:12

1:01:29 Just bow to the Buddha three times, please. Report an error in the passage at 1:01:29 Highlight the passage at 1:01:29