Interconnectedness, from a Buddhist perspective – Q and A

0:00 Do you have a question? Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:06 I'm talking about wanting to ask Ajahn Sumedho about the nature of emptiness because in some of the teachings that I've received in other traditions also going with this sense of emptiness is the natural arising of love and compassion. Thank you for your question. Report an error in the passage at 0:06 Highlight the passage at 0:06

0:29 Which seems to link very much with what you're saying about awareness, because it seems to me that the essence of the practice can be recognized for ourselves and perhaps in others. When this artificial mind state of separation disappears, all that's left must be unconditional love. Report an error in the passage at 0:29 Highlight the passage at 0:29

0:58 And surely that's the very essence of what you're talking about. So it's not a lack of coldness. It's not this sort of plane of awareness that we reach, which is sort of depersonalized and like Siberia. There seems to me that coming with this, certainly I hear it from you, this expression, which is very uncontrived, the natural expression of unconditional love. Report an error in the passage at 0:58 Highlight the passage at 0:58

1:30 Well, the words themselves are, like, all a word can do is really, a concept is just kind of emphasize something. You know, it's incomplete in itself. So when you talk about emptiness, that's an emphasis on, but it's incomplete in the sense that it oftentimes gives the impression of like totally, Empty and nothingness, kind of a void, a vacuum. But then it also has a value in terms of pointing to just the reality of non-attachment, where with attachment we're always filling up the emptiness with something. Report an error in the passage at 1:30 Highlight the passage at 1:30

2:24 We live in a world where we're always creating the world and ourselves and the future. vacuum Report an error in the passage at 2:24 Highlight the passage at 2:24

2:32 Memories of the past. So we're always filling up the empty, the emptiness with something. And then, and so the aim of mindfulness is to see, you know, we don't have to do that. We don't have to keep, you know, this compulsion, this obsessive habit of just filling everything up all the time. And that just emptiness itself is peacefulness. Report an error in the passage at 2:32 Highlight the passage at 2:32

3:03 We no longer feel this obsessive need to fill it. But then you think of like non-self or anattā, which is emphasizing the Theravāda and Pāli teachings. And that can be seen as, you know, like you shouldn't have a self or, you know, one can form a view about self as something, Report an error in the passage at 3:03 Highlight the passage at 3:03

3:33 something wrong or bad about self. And actually, anattā and emptiness are the same thing. It's not, the self is created. If we're just creating ourselves endlessly into the emptiness, we don't know what we're doing, then we're caught in this vortex of saṃsāra. Or say... Report an error in the passage at 3:33 Highlight the passage at 3:33

4:02 Unconditioned love is, you know, if I create, you know, ideas of love and have preferences, I love these people more than those, and then that's coming from the self, from the need to fill up the space, you know, with these are my people, those are my enemies, and the division takes place. And then they... Report an error in the passage at 4:02 Highlight the passage at 4:02

4:33 See, conditioned love is always, you know, I love you when you do what I say, but if you disobey me, I don't love you anymore. So then it's conditioned, you know, and then you're punished for disobeying. You know, even in the Old Testament, you know, God would punish the Jews terribly. Therefore, just looking at another god or something. So this is where we get our cues about, you know, god and this dualism of right and wrong and what you should and shouldn't do. Report an error in the passage at 4:33 Highlight the passage at 4:33

5:20 But like in unconditioned love, you know, this emptiness, since it includes everybody, everything, you know, and there's no, then it doesn't mean that, There's no conditions, but the underlying, that which is interconnected is love. And then the conditions are changing according to other conditions. If we only know the conditions, then we're caught in the changiness of everything. Report an error in the passage at 5:20 Highlight the passage at 5:20

5:53 And we forget, we don't recognize unconditioned love anymore. So we can hold the ideal. I found in my own case, like unconditioned, like with mettā, for example, you always start aham sakita homi, translated may I abide in well-being. So the clue, the emphasis is on having this towards yourself, this unconditioned love towards yourself. Report an error in the passage at 5:53 Highlight the passage at 5:53

6:26 Now these are words again. How can I love myself? And, you know, then I... And if I start thinking about it, I get even more confused. But in terms of unconditioned love, it's like unconditioned love is like, you know, no matter what I do, no matter how bad I am or lawless or cruel or mean, this unconditioned love is still there. Report an error in the passage at 6:26 Highlight the passage at 6:26

7:01 It doesn't remove itself. When I misbehave, well, what is that then but awareness, mindfulness? And it's a matter of, you know, so this I had the insight like, when I recognize this, then I can, you know, I feel, you know, totally connected to this universe. You know, even as a separate entity, as this being, this personality. Report an error in the passage at 7:01 Highlight the passage at 7:01

7:34 It belongs, even my bad thoughts, even the mosquitoes and the demons, they all belong, everything belongs. And so we hear, you know, about moral judgments and strong views about what is natural and unnatural, and we have our preferences for, you know, what is natural is good, and if that's unnatural, that shouldn't exist. Report an error in the passage at 7:34 Highlight the passage at 7:34

7:58 But unconditioned love doesn't judge according to whether it's natural or unnatural, everything. Now just recognize the profundity of that. Like in mental practice, loving kindness then is not just reserved for the good ones, but loving kindness for the Lord of Death and the aliens and the evil forces and the beings in hell and so forth, as well as all the angels and the good ones. Report an error in the passage at 7:58 Highlight the passage at 7:58

8:32 And it's not proportionate either. You're not saying 90 % goes to the good ones, I'll designate 10 % for the bad ones. It's unconditioned. And so then, in terms of embracing everything, unconditioned love has no preferences. Report an error in the passage at 8:32 Highlight the passage at 8:32

8:53 It isn't. It's what holds it all together. It's what... It connects us all, you see. So when we're mindful, we actually begin to operate from unconditioned love rather than from personal agendas or biases. And you see, when we... And that's why it's so important to recognize it because it's real. It's not just a romantic ideal or some high-minded metaphysical theory. Report an error in the passage at 8:53 Highlight the passage at 8:53

9:30 When you test it out, they're testing out this mindfulness. And towards myself, towards the things that come and go in my own mind, towards the emotions, towards the memories, it allows me to accept whatever I'm thinking or feeling as it is, without judging it. Now, if I forget this, then I tend to And I start coming from, I'm a Buddhist monk of 40 years. Then I get into my, I shouldn't think like that. Or, that's a bad feeling. Report an error in the passage at 9:30 Highlight the passage at 9:30

10:13 Or, I should be, you know, I hope nobody notices something because, you know, they'd be disillusioned that such a grand monk as myself is such a mean thought. Report an error in the passage at 10:13 Highlight the passage at 10:13

10:29 So there's always... You know, there's a judgment. You know, my character, my superego, using Freudian terms, is the biggest tyrant in the universe. I'm sure it's more tyrannical than your superego. Report an error in the passage at 10:29 Highlight the passage at 10:29

10:54 I've got the most tyrannical superego than anyone here. And what I'm saying is, it's very judgmental. You know, I know what's right and how things should be. And I know how I should be. And I'm brought up in this very idealistic way. And so the judgments always towards my humanity is I can never be like the ideal. Report an error in the passage at 10:54 Highlight the passage at 10:54

11:27 So I'm never going to win this battle. Super ego. It just goes on. And I've seen it. No matter how careful I am with the Monastic discipline in how diligent I am a meditator. The superego still can find something wrong with me. Report an error in the passage at 11:27 Highlight the passage at 11:27

11:48 Well, after a while, you begin to realize you can't trust that. That's what tyranny is. You know, you tyrannize. It's reasonable and it's intelligent. So therefore, it's intimidating. And then, you know, I started, like, you know, I was... On the emotional level, this is one reason, before I ordained, you know, I realized emotionally I was a very immature 30-year-old. Report an error in the passage at 11:48 Highlight the passage at 11:48

12:22 You know, so this was frightening because I was 30 years old and I still had emotions of like a child of four or five. You know, and this was, and I didn't, you know, just I felt this futility, like total despair. Report an error in the passage at 12:22 Highlight the passage at 12:22

12:40 Because I had to pretend, you know, I'm an adult male and put on this, you know, I could present myself well in society, but inside there was all this other. And so then there was a lot of trying to suppress it and then a lot of judgment, tyrannical, that's bad, that's immature, that's childish, you shouldn't feel like that. Report an error in the passage at 12:40 Highlight the passage at 12:40

13:08 And on and on like that. So then through meditation I began actually to see the emotions with loving kindness. You know, before I'd say they were childish and immature, I began to accept them for what they are and not judge them. Report an error in the passage at 13:08 Highlight the passage at 13:08

13:28 And then the result was that the problem dissolved. Because the problem was always the battle between the superego and the emotional. Realities of my karma. And so, like this internal conflict, the war begins. You know, from both sides, they both start from a righteous position. Nobody, there's nobody, you know, intentionally evil, delighting in destruction, just out of malice and malevolence. Report an error in the passage at 13:28 Highlight the passage at 13:28

14:03 When we commit evil acts, it's oftentimes out of righteousness. Report an error in the passage at 14:03 Highlight the passage at 14:03

14:09 Out of, you know, some kind of grasping of we're right, you're wrong. If you're wrong, then we've got to get rid of you. Well, there's a, you know, they're convinced that they're right. But in that righteousness, there's no unconditioned love. Report an error in the passage at 14:09 Highlight the passage at 14:09

14:29 So righteousness is very divisive, you know. Even though it's right, it's not really right. You know, and it's... And because life isn't like that. You know, it's not the way I would like it to be if everything were right according to my opinion. But life is like this. It includes everything. It includes everything. All the things I don't like even. They belong. And the pests and the terrorists and so forth. Report an error in the passage at 14:29 Highlight the passage at 14:29

15:03 So then one begins to... And then applying that to yourself first, you know, you... To your own emotional habits and fears and desires is actually, you know, modern psychotherapy is moving in this direction, is realizing that if you're going to really resolve a lot of emotional problems, just by analyzing them doesn't work. Report an error in the passage at 15:03 Highlight the passage at 15:03

15:33 You've got, there's this acceptance of them, non-judgmental, Unconditioned acceptance of them for what they are. And then the conditions you're actually, you're recognizing their cessation. Because then you're allowing them to cease. You're allowing them to, you're not just resisting and creating more karma with them. Report an error in the passage at 15:33 Highlight the passage at 15:33

16:02 You had a question? I'm thinking of more extreme situations of people in prison tortured. trade very difficult to attain this state the depth of something so severe Report an error in the passage at 16:02 Highlight the passage at 16:02

16:21 Yeah, well, extreme, and very few can even develop it when it's not extreme. You know, I mean, some people, you know, the more they've been tortured and pushed, the more aware they've become. I'm not justifying this. I'm just kidding. But, you know, like there are many wrong things, wrong conditions, things that shouldn't be, so it's not a denial of this. Report an error in the passage at 16:21 Highlight the passage at 16:21

16:57 But just by that alone, by hating them and eradicating them, oftentimes we create more conditions. conditions that get resolved. You can see a lot of the problems, you know, the recurring wars, the ethnic rivalries, the race hatreds, anti-Semitism and so on. These are all things that have never really been resolved. You know, so they keep coming back because... Report an error in the passage at 16:57 Highlight the passage at 16:57

17:34 It's not... Well, now it's not legal. Report an error in the passage at 17:34 Highlight the passage at 17:34

17:44 Which is an improvement, yeah. But it's still the place. And, I mean, now, I mean, they say in the old days it was legal, you know, you could have, at least in the, I don't know, in England it wasn't, was it? But in the States it was legal till the 1860s. You know, it was unquestioned. But now I think, you know, from what I hear, You know, I hear a lot of it here in England. Like in prostitution, things like this, where they're just nothing but slaves, really. Report an error in the passage at 17:44 Highlight the passage at 17:44

18:27 And this is happening now, but yet it's not legal. You can't justify it on that level. And it's, you know, then as we develop, as we... They cultivate more. Then our relationship even to slavery or the evil forces is one not of judgment and of hatred, but of compassion, a willingness to get to the root of the problem. Report an error in the passage at 18:27 Highlight the passage at 18:27

19:08 Because people do these evil things out of fear and ignorance. You know, and as long as, you know, so they're learning how to survive in a system. And, you know, you don't, I come from a very fortunate background, you know, where I'm, you know, I could take a lot for granted, but when you hear the stories of other people, you know, being, you know, like in Albania, a place like this, and the street children and all that, I mean, it's just... Report an error in the passage at 19:08 Highlight the passage at 19:08

19:44 It breaks your heart to think of what that must do to your psyche, you know, to be unloved, rejected, and just survival, learning to survive by any means. And, of course, human beings have incredible adaptability. They survive under the most horrific conditions. But it's a lack of this sense of compassion, you know, that... Report an error in the passage at 19:44 Highlight the passage at 19:44

20:13 It's not just trying to get sentimentally involved with it and righteously indignant, but to develop that ability that we all have to where the wrongs or the unfairness in a society can be addressed in a way that the actual thing can be resolved rather than just repressed again or where Report an error in the passage at 20:13 Highlight the passage at 20:13

20:40 we can delude ourselves that it's no longer a problem. Oftentimes that's Report an error in the passage at 20:40 Highlight the passage at 20:40

20:58 dismiss things because they're too painful to dwell on. in one's own, now the real is in yourself to be able to see what, you know, the anger or the is. These are natural kind of primal emotions that we all have as human beings, as mammals. Report an error in the passage at 20:58 Highlight the passage at 20:58

21:27 Dogs, cats have fear and anger. So these are like primal energies that we experience through this form. And then on the level of delusion we create it into a personal problem. We don't understand these energies. The superego tends to judge them as bad. You're bad because you get angry. You shouldn't be afraid. You're just a wimp. You should be brave and not just be a cowardly a coward frightened by these things. Report an error in the passage at 21:27 Highlight the passage at 21:27

22:06 And so the judgments from above It can be very harsh, very cruel, and they're right in a way, you know, but in terms of understanding the nature, the way things really are, then, you know, our sense of awareness of them is not approving or judging, but it's a willingness to accept something. To really understand something, you have to accept it. You have to hold this and look at it and study it. Report an error in the passage at 22:06 Highlight the passage at 22:06

22:39 To recognize it as Perrier bottled at source. Report an error in the passage at 22:39 Highlight the passage at 22:39

22:46 You know, if I just don't bother to look, then I, you know, or if I've got some kind of fear of it, then I just get rid of it, throw it away. But if I accept it, you know, accepting what I don't like even doesn't mean approving of it, but it means I can actually begin to acknowledge its Right to exist at this moment and let it be. Then it's natural, it naturally ceases, you know, we're noticing the changingness of conditions. Report an error in the passage at 22:46 Highlight the passage at 22:46

23:29 Yes? Buddhism, or at least from what I hear from your lectures, seems to have very close links to modern psychotherapy. Very strong links in terms of, we just mentioned positive regard, unconditional positive regard. and and incongruence and that kind of stuff, very much like the type of psychotherapy out of the works of people like Carl Rogers. Report an error in the passage at 23:29 Highlight the passage at 23:29

23:58 do you think Buddhism, as a spiritual religion, where do you think it differs? In which way? Well, Report an error in the passage at 23:58 Highlight the passage at 23:58

24:10 its whole aim is enlightenment. You know, psychotherapy. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 24:10 Highlight the passage at 24:10

24:18 Where I think psychotherapy tends towards, that's not its purpose. It tends towards releasing tension and suffering. But, I mean, it's like psychotherapy, like to a Buddhist, is more like skillful means. So, you know, I'm saying psychotherapy where you're developing awareness. Report an error in the passage at 24:18 Highlight the passage at 24:18

24:51 And unconditional acceptance, things like this, these would be healthy things to do even if you have no interest in ultimate enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 24:51 Highlight the passage at 24:51

25:08 But then, say, on the religious, Buddhism as a religion, then the religion is a convention, a form of some sort, That binds you, that if you, you know, it's a vehicle to use towards recognizing or realizing the ultimate reality. Report an error in the passage at 25:08 Highlight the passage at 25:08

25:35 And so, you know, in terms, then in that, the way I've defined religion in this aspect, then Buddhism is a religion. And it's also psychology. Report an error in the passage at 25:35 Highlight the passage at 25:35

25:47 Dhamma really covers everything. You know, you can teach, Buddhism as philosophy, as psychology, as science, as religion. Because it's about the way things are. It's not an imposition of thought or ideas onto something that you accept. But, you know, the whole point is awake and attention observing. Report an error in the passage at 25:47 Highlight the passage at 25:47

26:14 And then the teachings themselves are more, are not to be grasped as things to believe in, but as observing Report an error in the passage at 26:14 Highlight the passage at 26:14

26:23 Pointers at this present moment. So that's, you know, in my own practice over these years is always using this, you know, like Buddha right now. What is Buddha right now? Asking these kind of questions. Because part of being a Buddhist monk is you take refuge in the Buddha. And of course that can be seen in just a convention. You know, that's part of Theravāda Buddhism. And Report an error in the passage at 26:23 Highlight the passage at 26:23

26:56 And you kind of have various takes on it or ideas as some kind of Buddha force in the universe or the great sage of the past or something. But I'm more interested in using that word Buddha not as to refer to something in the past but as here and now. So what is Buddha right now? And it's awareness. It can only be this. Report an error in the passage at 26:56 Highlight the passage at 26:56

27:28 Within a separate form, like Buddha, you can make images. So you have Buddha images. So you have Buddha, like Gautama the Buddha, and you have Dipankara Buddha, and so forth. You have the different 28 Buddhas of the past. But then you can just see them in terms of historical reference or some kind of traditional views about Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 27:28 Highlight the passage at 27:28

27:57 The history of Buddhism. Or, when you're actually taking refuge in Buddha, to me, it means awake, being aware now. Then it's, you know, the word Buddha, actually, you know, when I hear the word, just somebody says the word Buddha, it reminds me, you know, not just, was there really a Buddha? Was that, you know, because in any religion as old as this, you know, There can be all kinds of doubts about was there ever really a Gotama of the Buddhas? Was this maybe some kind of cult in India? You know, the questions about whether Jesus Christ actually lived or not. Report an error in the passage at 27:57 Highlight the passage at 27:57

28:38 So you can get caught into wanting historical accuracy and proof. But it doesn't matter. Even if they could prove there is no such thing as Gotama of the Buddha, actually the teaching works. Report an error in the passage at 28:38 Highlight the passage at 28:38

28:54 So I mean, you know, it's not... If they could accurately prove scientifically through the Akashic record there was no Gotama, the Buddha, the teaching that we call Buddhism still works. I mean, it doesn't really matter. Because Buddha then is this awareness. And then in terms of the Buddha, like each one of us is experiencing, Report an error in the passage at 28:54 Highlight the passage at 28:54

29:28 Consciousness from a form, you know, so you're experiencing consciousness from your form, your body. So right now I'm in your consciousness reality. Report an error in the passage at 29:28 Highlight the passage at 29:28

29:39 You're in my consciousness. And so we begin to just notice the way it is. And yet on a conventional level we don't notice that. We think we're two men sitting here in the same room and I'm the... One giving the talk and you're asking the question, playing, you know, on the conventional level is our reality. But this is where we're challenging just being attached and caught into the superficiality of conventional reality towards investigating to a deeper understanding of the way it is. Report an error in the passage at 29:39 Highlight the passage at 29:39

30:16 So in ultimate reality, you know, in terms of experience here and now, You are the center, in terms of your experience right now, you are the center of the universe, or each one of us at this point. This is the center point. Now, is that megalomania or grandiosity? It is the truth, because let's face it, you're always experiencing, you experience life from this point, you know, from within the form of your body, the conscious form. Report an error in the passage at 30:16 Highlight the passage at 30:16

30:56 now what you put into that consciousness can be all kinds of delusions or through awareness you begin to create delusions but trust more in the awareness which is a universal intelligence where create your personal identity through memory through attachments through conventions Report an error in the passage at 30:56 Highlight the passage at 30:56

31:26 I'm very intrigued by this because from my own experience, Because I've actually worked as a therapist for a while, what seems to happen is that people, there's a point when a person clearly has touched something very real in a process of what we might call a psychotherapeutic environment. And that seems to be exactly the same as what happens when we touch this moment In meditation or in conversation, we don't know how it happens in a kind of Buddhist environment when we feel this sense of complete presence. Report an error in the passage at 31:26 Highlight the passage at 31:26

32:15 I think it's the same thing. So these things come together. To me, it seems a successful, in a better context, outcome, psychotherapeutically, if somebody feels really whole and connected. Right now, in the present moment, without being in denial of anything. So it's a process where you can accept, as you're saying, everything as it actually is, without these superegoic judgments. Report an error in the passage at 32:15 Highlight the passage at 32:15

32:47 So isn't that, Ajahn Sumedho, where it kind of comes together? That if what's really in a good therapeutic situation, the word therapy is getting an improvement, and the improvement is actually the enlightenment of being present. So I'm contradicting what you're saying in a way, because surely if you are being connected and you are feeling present, you're becoming whole, healed, and that very moment of being completely present is enlightenment. Report an error in the passage at 32:47 Highlight the passage at 32:47

33:18 Right. But they, you know, like, I mean, there's different, psychotherapy is... A term that covers all kinds of different methods, you know, so I can't speak from, you know, every form of psychotherapy because it, you know, I don't know them really. But the ones that I tend to, that come here are the ones I know, you know, and I met, like there's a lot of interest in, among psychotherapists here in Britain in Buddhism, Buddhist meditation. Report an error in the passage at 33:18 Highlight the passage at 33:18

33:59 So, and then I attended a conference several years ago of psychotherapists and their whole, I was a keynote speaker and what they wanted, the whole subject of this conference was mindfulness. And so that was very, you know, it gave me a lot of hope for psychotherapy because I'd never heard them ever mention mindfulness before. Report an error in the passage at 33:59 Highlight the passage at 33:59

34:31 It always tended to be more analytical. And so that's why I feel, you know, that certain forms of psychotherapy, they're more, you know, they're just naturally moving toward a more, what we would call a Buddhist perspective. Because the Buddhist perspective isn't like a patent title to something, but it's... Report an error in the passage at 34:31 Highlight the passage at 34:31

35:01 You know, it's a natural perspective. The more you pay attention, the more you understand. And whether you want to call that Buddhism or not is something, you know, up to you. But, I mean, it's like when you're using the Buddhist conventions, and so I call myself a Buddhist monk because that's a convention. Report an error in the passage at 35:01 Highlight the passage at 35:01

35:21 But in terms of awareness, that doesn't mean that that's Buddhist. The Buddha... Report an error in the passage at 35:21 Highlight the passage at 35:21

36:15 playing football, you have to really be mindful to know where everything is, who's who and where the ball is. You can't think about it, can you, in the fast movement of modern football. You have to... There's a certain amount of awareness necessary to keep the perspective clear, just on that level of the challenge of the game. Report an error in the passage at 36:15 Highlight the passage at 36:15

36:36 But then, you know, as soon as the game's over, maybe they all go and get drunk. I Report an error in the passage at 36:36 Highlight the passage at 36:36

36:47 don't know what they do after, but it wouldn't surprise me. And the conditions for awareness are there, you know. It's just naturally, you know, if you're going to... Get involved in that way, then you have to be aware. But they may not understand it themselves. So like with the Buddhist teaching, it's actually using terminologies, not as things to grasp, but as pointers to get us to really, to encourage us, to empower us, to awaken and observe. Report an error in the passage at 36:47 Highlight the passage at 36:47

37:31 And so you have like the Satipaṭṭhāna, the four foundations of mindfulness teachings like this, you know, that are really just ways the Buddha pointed to developing or recognizing this natural state, which isn't, you can't claim it as any kind of religious prerogative. So this is where, this is like, it's where all the religious conventions merge. Report an error in the passage at 37:31 Highlight the passage at 37:31

37:59 You know, where the convention is no longer necessary. But if, you know, with the problem with religious conventions, oftentimes we identify and attach to the convention so strongly, we can never get beyond it. So some people criticize religion as a kind of opiate of the people or blinding, you know, keeps you ignorant and blind. Report an error in the passage at 37:59 Highlight the passage at 37:59

38:24 And of course, you know, you can... You know, you can say it's the religion's fault, but is it really? It's a misuse of it. It's not recognizing how to use, you know, how to use a religious convention for awakened attention. Now, like with the emphasis on faith, like, you know, my... I have a very skeptical nature, so... Report an error in the passage at 38:24 Highlight the passage at 38:24

38:56 I can't believe it. If somebody says you have to believe this, I can't do it. And so I couldn't, you know, in Christianity, I found it very difficult for me to just accept things that they tell you you have to believe in. Report an error in the passage at 38:56 Highlight the passage at 38:56

39:15 And because my nature is like this, somehow I just can't do it. It's not even that I don't want to do it, it's I can't. And when I was younger, I even tried to do it, you know, willfully believe what I'm supposed to believe in, but couldn't do that. Report an error in the passage at 39:15 Highlight the passage at 39:15

39:33 So then what attracted me to Buddhism was the fact they didn't make that demand, you know, so it was open for investigation. Report an error in the passage at 39:33 Highlight the passage at 39:33

39:46 And this immediately appealed to me. You know, something in me responded to that. Because I can do this. This I can do. But I had enough faith interest in the beginning because I was such a skeptic. I doubted whether Buddhism, I thought maybe it's just another one of those religious things that gets you nowhere or just an intellectual exercise for the brain. Report an error in the passage at 39:46 Highlight the passage at 39:46

40:23 But I had, there's something in me like an interest enough to pursue it than try to find out more about it. And as I found out more about it, and the more I began to practice with it and apply it inwardly to my own experience of life, then the amount of trust or faith in it increased. Report an error in the passage at 40:23 Highlight the passage at 40:23

40:45 So when I started out with skeptical questioning, And just enough interest to get me started. Say now, after 50 years of Buddhism, I have total trust in it. 100%. Because I've actually, over the years, put it to the test. Not just expecting some reward in the next life or a better birth. But actually, in the life of That I experience in the ups and downs of the conventional world, I apply it. Report an error in the passage at 40:45 Highlight the passage at 40:45

41:30 Like when a period in my life where I was being criticized a lot by other monks, and I felt very, personally, I felt very hurt. Report an error in the passage at 41:30 Highlight the passage at 41:30

41:49 And offended by a lot of the criticisms. Well, then putting that experience with mindfulness, rather than the tendency was to think it's not fair and to feel sorry for myself or to blame the people who criticize me. But I also knew better than that. It was the time to really be aware of the reaction, the emotional reaction I was having. Report an error in the passage at 41:49 Highlight the passage at 41:49

42:20 And through that, you know, through the kind of willingness to accept the pain without creating it into anything more than just receiving it, you know, the amount of faith in this way, because I began to see, I fully acknowledge the fact that I create the suffering out of ignorance. Report an error in the passage at 42:20 Highlight the passage at 42:20

42:45 You know, if I'm heedless, then I create my misery. And it's no longer a theory, it's just recognized. Every time I'm miserable, it's because I'm clinging to something. So then it's obvious, don't cling to anything. Report an error in the passage at 42:45 Highlight the passage at 42:45

43:03 Yes? I was wondering if you could talk about the difference between inquiry and doubt. You said it changed you, so you developed more faith. but the same time start from the place Report an error in the passage at 43:03 Highlight the passage at 43:03

43:30 quiet. Report an error in the passage at 43:30 Highlight the passage at 43:30

43:34 Well, that's like doubt is one of the hindrances. But like anything, it can be used. You know, if you just say, I shouldn't doubt, you can't get anywhere with that. If you're a doubter, then you start from where you are, the way you are, and recognizing the way you are. It's a judgment about how you should be, but it's a willingness to accept, you know, even if you don't like the way you are, to accept that for what it is. Report an error in the passage at 43:34 Highlight the passage at 43:34

44:07 And then you, because I have this skeptical tendency, I quickly caught on, the doubt was going to be my means. And of course, You know, skillful means, because this, you know, I have no problem with creating doubts. And how to use doubt as a skillful means. And I remember in the early years of my early monastic life, I did a lot, I tried to do a lot of the samādhi practices. Report an error in the passage at 44:07 Highlight the passage at 44:07

44:47 And I could, you know, I realized that by concentrating my mind, And then I could, you know, I could really get very, very tranquil, very refined states. But immediately I started doubting it, and it was gone. You know, so, and because I'm such a cynic, I remember, you know, really experimenting with that, and how ephemeral and unshakable those states were. Report an error in the passage at 44:47 Highlight the passage at 44:47

45:25 And so I, you know, I really lost interest in doing that because, I mean, it's like, it didn't seem what I needed, you know, where when I started really doubting, intentionally doubting. Now what happens when you doubt, you know, you ask yourself a question, you know, like, who am I? Report an error in the passage at 45:25 Highlight the passage at 45:25

45:56 Now, if you just listen to yourself questioning, you're not asking somebody else for the answer, but you're using a question because a question is a form of doubt. Who am I? There's a doubt there, isn't there? And so you begin to notice, you know, when you intentionally inquire like that, then you... Report an error in the passage at 45:56 Highlight the passage at 45:56

46:24 You intentionally ask the question, but you're also aware, you're not really interested in an answer to the question, but in the state of suspension that happens, the thoughts cease at that moment. There's a doubt, a gap. And you begin to include that in conscious experience, the gaps between things, where... Report an error in the passage at 46:24 Highlight the passage at 46:24

46:50 Where if you don't notice that, then you are, you know, who am I? Well, I'm Ajahn Sumedho, of course, isn't I? And, well, you already know that on the conventional level. I'm not interested in asserting my Ajahn Sumedho-ness as a kind of big deal. But, you know, in terms of the who am I, or using any question, like those koans in Zen, you know, those... Report an error in the passage at 46:50 Highlight the passage at 46:50

47:21 Conundrums they ask, you know, that your intellect can't answer. But you're always doubting, you know, your thinking mind stops. Now, then you're aware of that. Awareness then starts connecting both with thinking and with non-thinking. So your discerning faculties start developing. Now, if you don't notice the spaces or the gaps, then you... Report an error in the passage at 47:21 Highlight the passage at 47:21

47:50 thinking process just becomes obsessive you just go on and on and on and even though you may not be thinking all the time you're never conscious when you're not thinking Report an error in the passage at 47:50 Highlight the passage at 47:50

48:13 Ajahn Sumedho if you sit down now and just, you know, be aware of the breath. Let everything go. I'm giving very good advice. And at first they might feel a little calm, you know, as I kind of guide them and soothe them a bit with soft words and good advice. And then I might leave and I'll say, I will now leave you now for half an hour and I shall return. They come back and they say, I just think, think, think, think, think, think, think, you know. Report an error in the passage at 48:13 Highlight the passage at 48:13

48:55 And, you know, they're trying to stop thinking by thinking that they shouldn't think. You know, you just, you can't solve the problem that way. So that's where, like the awareness, as you, awareness, then you're aware of the thinking is like this, non-thinking is like this. And so like, like, Report an error in the passage at 48:55 Highlight the passage at 48:55

49:30 Zen Buddhism is very good at that, you know, where they keep using like a koan or staring at a blank wall or something where there's nothing to kind of feed you. Or even if you're using a koan and you're thinking, you can't solve it through analysis or through reason. You know, it's absurd. It's nonsense, really. Report an error in the passage at 49:30 Highlight the passage at 49:30

49:57 And yet you can be trying to make sense out of nonsense. You've got a clever intellect. You can manipulate your thought patterns to even make a kind of sense out of nonsense. But that's not the point. It's not to find an answer or solve the koan, but to develop awareness of the thinking process. And of course, When your intellect is never satisfied and the answers don't, you can't get the answer to the question, but your awareness increases, then you begin to understand the desire to know the answer, the discomfort you feel of not knowing something, how you don't like this feeling of insecurity, how much We want to find security even if it's based on false promises. Just tell me everything is okay. Everything is okay. Report an error in the passage at 49:57 Highlight the passage at 49:57

51:07 Oh, I feel okay now. Even if everything isn't okay. Because, you know, on one level I don't want to know what's wrong. And I can imagine all kinds of possibilities for everything going wrong. But recognizing emptiness, Report an error in the passage at 51:07 Highlight the passage at 51:07

51:30 Our pure consciousness is not something I can create. It's through recognizing, knowing that you see for yourself. Report an error in the passage at 51:30 Highlight the passage at 51:30

51:45 And so it's like this. And then, you know, it's real. It's not like awareness, mindfulness, intuitive awareness, these words, you know, this. This is not dependent on conditions. I don't need ideal conditions for this. This kind of practice you can do, it connects you every moment. So in the middle of a shopping center or battlefield or mountaintop or whatever, in a meditation retreat or in the office, it's here now always. Report an error in the passage at 51:45 Highlight the passage at 51:45

52:32 And as you trust it more, you know, you recognize it, trust it, then you begin to see the way of non-suffering, you know, and you gain confidence, you know, through knowing something, the reality, knowing reality, not through believing in me, what I say, or through Buddhist ideas anymore, but you know it. Report an error in the passage at 52:32 Highlight the passage at 52:32

52:58 It's real, it's a fact, it's no longer hope for God, Desired goal that you might fail at ever achieving if you start thinking about it. Report an error in the passage at 52:58 Highlight the passage at 52:58