Embodying Wonderment: Zen 2.0

0:00 This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. I'm Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:16 delighted to be here. Is this mic working? Okay, I'm getting a thumbs up. Thank you, yeah. I haven't been here since the renovations. So I just got a little tour and... Report an error in the passage at 0:16 Highlight the passage at 0:16

0:33 I hadn't planned on saying this, but I'm going to say it. Thank you everyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone at San Francisco Zen Center. who participated in the planning and the fundraising and seeing this renovation project through. I am so deeply impressed. I am so grateful to see the visitor center, to see the reception area here, to see that amazing elevator, and to see the gender inclusive and accessible bathrooms. Report an error in the passage at 0:33 Highlight the passage at 0:33

1:11 Yes. I was on the board like, I don't know, 2004 or something like that. Nothing of that was here. It makes the center so welcoming. It makes the center so uplifting for people like myself with disabilities and those with mobility impairments. It's really, really, it's so important. It is so, so important. Report an error in the passage at 1:11 Highlight the passage at 1:11

1:42 So thank you, everyone. I'm filled with gratitude. And I'll use the word to preview, wonderment. Have you heard that word? Has anyone heard the word wonderment? Oh, okay. We've got a couple here. I will introduce you to it. Okay. The title of my talk this morning is Embodying Wonderment. And the subtitle is Zen 2.0. Report an error in the passage at 1:42 Highlight the passage at 1:42

2:16 Zen 2.0 in 2026. Embodying wonderment. Zen 2.0 in 2026. Today on the 10th day of the first month of the year 2026 once again and perhaps always so and perhaps even more so now. Report an error in the passage at 2:16 Highlight the passage at 2:16

2:47 As it is famously said in the Mahāyāna Lotus Sūtra, our house is on fire again. And thinking back over the times across the years when I've given talks here at San Francisco Zen Center, City Center, and other places as well, but thinking back since this is City Center, on City Center, Every time I've come, the world has been on fire, and therefore I say again. In my point of view, our house, our big planet Earth house, is environmentally on fire, and our houses of U.S. Report an error in the passage at 2:47 Highlight the passage at 2:47

3:39 democratic governments and rule of law are set on fire by fascism. Now in January 2026. What do we say and do? What do I say and do? What do you and I? We're relating right now, right? What do you and I say? What do you and I do? Where do we go to exit from the burning building? Report an error in the passage at 3:39 Highlight the passage at 3:39

4:30 How many of you know that famous story of the burning house from the Lotus Sūtra? Some enthusiastic... Yeah, okay, so we have some. So for those of you who don't, this is a very, very famous teaching story that's come down to us through the Lotus Sūtra. Report an error in the passage at 4:30 Highlight the passage at 4:30

4:54 And here's the way that I tell it. To bring it a little bit up to date, I guess, or in my understanding. So there's a very rich person, parent. And again, I'm a parent. Very rich person with a parent with a bunch of kids who has a big mansion, say, in the Oakland Berkeley Hills. I live in Oakland. And there are a lot of huge... Report an error in the passage at 4:54 Highlight the passage at 4:54

5:26 Really expensive houses up there. I mean, they're beautiful. They're mansions. Unfortunately, with windy little roads, so those hills have burned in the past in the big fire of 19, whatever it was, 1991, I guess. Report an error in the passage at 5:26 Highlight the passage at 5:26

5:49 And fire danger is present during fire season. So anyway, there's this rich person, and they have all these kids and this big house, and the kids are just playing happily. You know, these days they've got their PlayStations and their video games and their screens and their mobile phones, and they're busy on social media and doing all kinds of things, art classes, their kids' yoga classes. Report an error in the passage at 5:49 Highlight the passage at 5:49

6:23 And they're doing this, and they're having a blast. And the house begins to burn on the ground floor. They're up on the second floor. So the parent screams, kids, come down and let's get out of the house. It is on fire. And the children completely ignore the parent. Because they're so busy and some have headphones on and earphones and they're busy off in their own world. And besides which, you know, some kids like to be defiant. Report an error in the passage at 6:23 Highlight the passage at 6:23

6:59 And so they're like, hell no, we're not going to come out. We're having fun. We think that you're just saying this. And this goes on for a while and then the parent becomes desperate. And says, I've got to figure out how to lure these kids out of this burning house. And so in the traditional story, I think the parent brings up a series of ox carts. Report an error in the passage at 6:59 Highlight the passage at 6:59

7:23 That was cool in those days. And says, look, here's this fabulous art ox cart with like drawn by a white. Ox and it's covered with flowers and it's filled with snacks and kids come on out I'm going to show you this great thing and these days I don't know what it would be maybe a van filled with the latest technology and lots of great snacks of course snacks are always good and eventually basically through skillful means Upāya gets the kids to exit from the house. Report an error in the passage at 7:23 Highlight the passage at 7:23

8:04 Our house is, again, a planet Earth, and that does present. What forms do our Buddhist and Zen practices and bodhisattva vows now take? How do they manifest in the world in individual behaviors so each of us has agency? Each of us has autonomy, so individual behaviors and in collective actions of solidarity and efficacy. Report an error in the passage at 8:04 Highlight the passage at 8:04

8:48 What forms do our Buddhist and Zen practices and vows now take? How do they manifest? How do they show up in the world in individual behaviors? And in collective actions of solidarity and efficacy. I believe in strategic action. Report an error in the passage at 8:48 Highlight the passage at 8:48

9:18 To answer these questions, I need you. And I think that you need me. And I think that we all need the 10,000 things, the many beings. So Report an error in the passage at 9:18 Highlight the passage at 9:18

9:46 once again, embodying wonderment, Zen 2.0. in 2026. I'd like to bow to my longtime dharma friend and colleague, Reverend Eli Brown-Stevenson, who is my diversity, equity, inclusion, access colleague of many years, for some of the conversations which have led to this talk. Report an error in the passage at 9:46 Highlight the passage at 9:46

10:17 Embodiment is very inspiring. And popular word right now in spiritual circles. And I don't particularly like it. I have a very strong aversion to it. It just irritates me so much. Although I understand its importance. And I understand its meaning and the importance of its meaning. Report an error in the passage at 10:17 Highlight the passage at 10:17

10:45 As I usually say, try making a sandwich or changing a diaper. Or making nine full prostrations, or driving a car, or doing a yoga class without a body. I mean, really. Report an error in the passage at 10:45 Highlight the passage at 10:45

11:03 So I think what we're actually talking about now with so much actually useful emphasis on somatics and embodied this and embodied that, which people are cashing in on, I think what we're talking about is, of course, Awareness of physical sensations. That's brand new, right? No. The so-called first foundation or establishment of mindfulness in the famous Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta, the four foundations or establishments of mindfulness. Report an error in the passage at 11:03 Highlight the passage at 11:03

11:45 Awareness of physical sensations. Embodiment. So what do I mean by embodying wonderment? For the past few years, I've observed with fascination and, I must say, joy, the rise of visibility of Chan, or Chinese Zen, and Sun, or Korean Zen, teachers and teachings in our Buddhist media and in our... Japanese lineage, Soto and Huenzai, Zen lineages, circles. I've seen the rise of this visibility of Chan and Son. Report an error in the passage at 11:45 Highlight the passage at 11:45

12:39 Adding, I feel, richness, depth, complexity to ongoing attention to the Japanese Zen Buddhist lineages. And I'm calling this Zen 2.0. Report an error in the passage at 12:39 Highlight the passage at 12:39

12:58 For the sake of convenience, Thich Report an error in the passage at 12:58 Highlight the passage at 12:58

13:07 Nhat Hanh, the great Vietnamese Zen master who passed a few years ago, throughout his teaching life, emphasized this vital meditation question, made calligraphies of it. There's lots available online. And emphasized the question as I first heard it and saw it was, am I sure? Report an error in the passage at 13:07 Highlight the passage at 13:07

13:32 Am I sure? My understanding is that Vietnamese Zen, Tien I believe it's called, is a syncretic form of Zen bringing in elements of the Theravāda and of, of course, Vietnamese culture. Report an error in the passage at 13:32 Highlight the passage at 13:32

13:59 So I don't really know where that came from. Plus, I did meet one Vietnamese Buddhist who said, Thich Nhat Hanh is not typical of any other Vietnamese Buddhist. You have to understand this. And I said, oh, thank you. He was a groundbreaking, I feel, genius teacher who opened the path of dharma, the path of mindful awareness, the path of peace, wisdom, and compassion for so many. Report an error in the passage at 13:59 Highlight the passage at 13:59

14:33 Thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people around the world in many different languages. It caught my eye. Again, when I saw this calligraphy, when I saw these teachings, that this teacher, this prominent teacher was saying, am I sure? Am I sure about what? Whatever it is we think we're sure about. And that, that... Report an error in the passage at 14:33 Highlight the passage at 14:33

15:04 Invites a certain level of mindful awareness. Well, sure, the earth is round. Am I sure? What if I talk to a flat earther? I'll get a different perspective. Well, of course, everyone thinks and believes this or that. Report an error in the passage at 15:04 Highlight the passage at 15:04

15:31 That's called a thought. Am I sure? So you can see, this is not a mantra in the sense that I understand mantra, and I do have a mantra practice. Report an error in the passage at 15:31 Highlight the passage at 15:31

15:46 This is an actual living big question. Am I sure? And this applies equally to the diversity, equity, inclusion, and disability access and accommodation work. A field which is now being quickly and systematically destroyed by our government. Report an error in the passage at 15:46 Highlight the passage at 15:46

16:20 Am I sure? We are, of course, talking now, I believe, about or having some connection to what in Chinese, Chan, that's our predecessor of Zen, practice is called, forgive me if I'm pronouncing it wrong, Huato. Report an error in the passage at 16:20 Highlight the passage at 16:20

16:46 it's usually Romanized H-U-A-T-O-U or something like that. And my understanding is that that literally means word head, so the head of the word, and more the actual meaning, the resonance is more meaning you go to the head of the word, and then you go go beyond beyond it. it. So it's before Before the word, it's before speech. It's before speech. Report an error in the passage at 16:46 Highlight the passage at 16:46

17:23 And so, for instance, my understanding is in koan practice, which I've done in a U.S. Rinzai Zen organization over the years, which actually didn't use any classic koans as far as I know. However, that, say, there's a koan or case that says, well, does a dog have Buddha nature? I never did that one, by the way, although my name is Mushim, and there's the whole Mu thing, because the answer from the master was Mu, and then... Report an error in the passage at 17:23 Highlight the passage at 17:23

18:21 The student needs to penetrate that Mu, which literally means no, but not so much, actually. So Mushim, same as Mushin in Japanese, from the Heart Sūtra, literally no heart mind. Very awful name, which I've had since I received it in Toronto in 1983 from my original teacher, Korean Zen master Samu Sinim, who passed a few years ago. Report an error in the passage at 18:21 Highlight the passage at 18:21

18:54 So before speech. In the best-selling book of many years, Mindfulness in Plain English, the author Bhante H. Gunaratne says, mindfulness, S-A-T-I, that's the Pāli, is pre-verbal and pre-cognitive. So think about that, but don't think too hard. Because it won't get you anywhere, but think a little bit about it. So Chinese chan hua tou practice, and what in Korean sun, Korean Zen tradition is called, same word, hua du. Report an error in the passage at 18:54 Highlight the passage at 18:54

19:46 That's usually Romanized H-W-A-D-U. In my limited understanding, the cultivation of continuous All-encompassing inquiry. Continuous, all-encompassing inquiry of looking deeper, of going, as Zen people say, beyond, beyond, completely beyond, inconceivably beyond. And marveling at how much is known. Report an error in the passage at 19:46 Highlight the passage at 19:46

20:33 How much is unknown? Report an error in the passage at 20:33 Highlight the passage at 20:33

20:40 Producing a quality of being that my friend, Chan Master Guagu, whose secular name is Professor Jimmy Yu, teacher at the Tallahassee Zen Center in Florida, so he's becoming very, very well known. Report an error in the passage at 20:40 Highlight the passage at 20:40

20:59 Guagu, G-U-O-G-U. A quality of being that Guagu has called, in English, Wonderment, wonderment. And a quality of practice that my, so that's, he's from the Chan or Chinese school. And a quality of practice that my friend Jagwang Sinim, who is a Korean Zen teacher, her secular name is Audrey Kitson. Report an error in the passage at 20:59 Highlight the passage at 20:59

21:34 And so she's teacher at the Sixth Ancestor. Of course, many of us know that Sui Neng Zen Center in Canada, formerly in Berkeley, near where I live in Oakland. Many years ago, I used to take my kid when he was a baby, and we would visit that center. A quality of practice that my friend Jagwang Sinem says is hinted at by summoning however you or I might embody, meaning Report an error in the passage at 21:34 Highlight the passage at 21:34

22:10 Physical sensations, thoughts, emotions that may arise all together, not separate, all together. How you or I might embody saying, like, hmm. Report an error in the passage at 22:10 Highlight the passage at 22:10

22:30 And I notice when I do that, I actually tend to lift my chin up. Hmm. And I look around. I wonder. Report an error in the passage at 22:30 Highlight the passage at 22:30

22:43 Wow, I really wonder. Report an error in the passage at 22:43 Highlight the passage at 22:43

22:57 And this spirit of inquiry It's meant to be applied to everything that, I mean, we do have to function, but to as many things as possible that come into our perceptual field. Report an error in the passage at 22:57 Highlight the passage at 22:57

23:17 Paper. Thich Nhat Hanh did a lot on paper. Hmm, what is this? There's a word, paper, in other languages, though. It will be different. So it's not the word. Hmm, what is this really? If I were a baby, I'd put it in my mouth because that's how we started exploring things. Report an error in the passage at 23:17 Highlight the passage at 23:17

23:48 You get the idea. Exploration. I wonder. If you like, let's test drive this right now. So I'm going to invite you to say to yourself, hmm, I wonder. So maybe just look around in the room. You could look at that. You could look at the tatami. Again, that's a word concept. It's a concept. Report an error in the passage at 23:48 Highlight the passage at 23:48

24:22 Clothes you're wearing, your hand. Just look at something and ask yourself, huh, what is this? What is this really? Like I know there's water in here, but if I didn't, like what is this? Report an error in the passage at 24:22 Highlight the passage at 24:22

24:52 How does this test drive feel in your body-mind? What comes up for you. So if you stay for the Q &A in the dining room afterward, I'd love to hear what comes up for you during this little exercise. Report an error in the passage at 24:52 Highlight the passage at 24:52

25:09 My experience of Zen has been that it's for people who don't need and might not want. We're all different. Detailed maps and diagrams as they enter a charted wilderness. My original training. in academia was as a poet in creative writing. Therefore, I am one of those people. In 1986, I was sitting in the pre-dawn darkness in an Adobe Zendo without windows in Santa Fe, New Mexico, with a saṅgha led by Richard Baker Roshi after he left San Francisco Zen Center. Report an error in the passage at 25:09 Highlight the passage at 25:09

25:54 It was the first time I was there. It was so dark, few candles. And a priest in a black robe handed me a paper from behind and said in my ear, sotto voce, he whispered in my ear, the good news is that you get a chanting card. The bad news is it's too dark to read it. Fine. A Report an error in the passage at 25:54 Highlight the passage at 25:54

26:29 poem by a famous Korean poet, Ko Eun. This, Asking the Way, translated by Suji Kwak Kim and Sunja Kim Kwak. You fools who ask what God is should ask what life is instead. Find a port where lemon trees bloom. Ask about places to drink. And I don't think he meant iced tea. To drink in the port. Ask about the drinkers. Ask about the lemon trees. Report an error in the passage at 26:29 Highlight the passage at 26:29

27:07 Ask and ask until nothing's left to ask. Report an error in the passage at 27:07 Highlight the passage at 27:07

27:17 One of the translators at poetryfoundation.org wrote this about Ko-un. And these days, as we say, here's a trigger warning. Korea has been through a lot. When he was a teenager... The Korean War broke out. Drafted but rejected for combat because he was too thin, malnourished, he worked unloading munitions and loading corpses for burial, sometimes carrying them on his back. Report an error in the passage at 27:17 Highlight the passage at 27:17

27:53 At one point, he poured acid into both ears so he would not hear the sounds of killing and dying. His hearing was further damaged decades later when he was tortured in prison. As a political dissident. In an interview with The Guardian, he recalls, half of my generation died, and I survived. So there was a sense of guilt, of culpability at being a survivor. They had all died, and here I was still alive. Report an error in the passage at 27:53 Highlight the passage at 27:53

28:28 In 1952, before the war ended, Ko became a Buddhist monk. Without Buddhism, he says, of that time in his life, I wouldn't be here today because I was lost. After a decade of monastic life, he left to become a schoolteacher on Jeju-do. It's a kind of tropical island right off the southern part of the peninsula of South Korea. He disrobed to become a schoolteacher on Jeju-do. Report an error in the passage at 28:28 Highlight the passage at 28:28

29:14 And ask until nothing's left to ask, the poet says. In my experience, that is a spirit of Korean Zen song. That is wonderment. And how is it that we might embody wonderment? Report an error in the passage at 29:14 Highlight the passage at 29:14

29:37 As a mother of a now middle-aged, kind of grumpy, Asian American man, who was once a very lively one and a half to two year old at Green Gulch Farm many years ago. We lived there at Green Gulch Zen Center. Report an error in the passage at 29:37 Highlight the passage at 29:37

29:56 I'm fairly certain that no matter how rough our childhoods might have been, and I am deeply, deeply sorry if yours was one that included pain and neglect, still. I hope that within each of us there is that baby who laughed, and when they first lifted their legs and grabbed their feet, what in yoga is called happy baby pose, was so joyful. Report an error in the passage at 29:56 Highlight the passage at 29:56

30:27 It's like, oh, wow, feet to feet. And that's even before language, so I'm putting an overlay there. And still I hope that there is within each of you a child. Who felt the blessing of sunlight through leaves of a sheltering tree or through a window in a place of no trees. And the wonderment of eating chocolate ice cream for the very first time. Report an error in the passage at 30:27 Highlight the passage at 30:27

30:59 Wonderment. When I was in Korean monastery in 1987 to 1988 on the sacred mountain Toksung, mountain Toksungsan. I was introduced to the Korean, I guess, koan practice that they call imoko, which is hwadu. Report an error in the passage at 30:59 Highlight the passage at 30:59

31:24 The practitioner assumes the posture of Zen meditation in the Zen hall, settles in, then raises the question, what is this? Report an error in the passage at 31:24 Highlight the passage at 31:24

31:39 I wonder. I wonder, what is this anyhow? Report an error in the passage at 31:39 Highlight the passage at 31:39

31:51 In other words, whatever arises. My left foot itches. Those are words and physical sensations. Well, what is this? Oh my God, global climate crisis. Wait, wait, what is this really? Report an error in the passage at 31:51 Highlight the passage at 31:51

32:17 These are hard and terrifying times, dear friends. Our house is on fire, ablaze with greed and hatred and ignorance. So I am very happy. I feel very blessed and grateful to be here with you now. Doesn't one of our chants say in English, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathāgata's words? Report an error in the passage at 32:17 Highlight the passage at 32:17

32:47 As I received it, another set of words for the Buddha means thusness and suchness. Report an error in the passage at 32:47 Highlight the passage at 32:47

32:59 Totally cool. But what is thusness anyway? I wonder what it is. And in ending, I am so happy to be able to share with you the instruction in Hwadu, in Imoko, that I received from Wondam Kunsunim, the Zen master of Toksung Mountain in South Korea in 1988. Report an error in the passage at 32:59 Highlight the passage at 32:59

33:30 I had the gift of having a translator, Korean to English, present, and he arranged this meeting. 1888. Report an error in the passage at 33:30 Highlight the passage at 33:30

33:38 meeting and Wandam Kunsenim said to me these words. This is how I remember them in English. And I followed this. This is my practice to this very day. So thus have I heard. Wandam Kunsenim said, the only reason we sit or assume a stationary posture when we meditate is because it is simpler. If we're moving around, we have to have what's I think called what? Report an error in the passage at 33:38 Highlight the passage at 33:38

34:13 Proprioception, awareness of our body moving and objects we can knock over, things like that. So it's simpler if we're in one place as long as we're safe. The only reason he said we sit when we meditate is because it is simpler. However, the purpose of the practice is to raise the question and hold it right in front of us like, as they say, plastered to your forehead. Report an error in the passage at 34:13 Highlight the passage at 34:13

34:38 Or maybe like right here. The purpose of this practice is to raise a question and hold it right in front of us in every waking hour. He said when we're walking to the outhouse, when we're eating, a little bit more difficult when we're talking to friends, imoko, what is this? Report an error in the passage at 34:38 Highlight the passage at 34:38

35:05 I wonder, what is this really? He said to me. As you continue your practice, you will have many experiences. Possibly he meant flashes of insight. He said, you will have many experiences. Ignore them all. Just keep going until the final explosion. Report an error in the passage at 35:05 Highlight the passage at 35:05

35:40 And I'm here with you today, so that hasn't happened yet. However, I hope I'm going in the right direction. What a marvelous adventure. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Report an error in the passage at 35:40 Highlight the passage at 35:40

36:07 Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma. Report an error in the passage at 36:07 Highlight the passage at 36:07