Teaching Without Words: An Invitation to Continuous Practice

0:00 This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:15 Good evening, everyone. And thank you for inviting me tonight to talk with Tim and Lucy. And thank you for everyone being here. And thank you for online people. Do you hear me okay, good? Thank you. So Report an error in the passage at 0:15 Highlight the passage at 0:15

0:44 the theme of this practice period is nothing lacking in continuous practice. In the classes that Tim and Lucy are sharing with us, we learn about the teaching of Fuinan and Shenshu, especially the contrast between Shenshu's poem about polishing the mirror through continuous practice. I have Report an error in the passage at 0:44 Highlight the passage at 0:44

1:34 been reflecting on these themes through some of my experiences. Before diving into the theme, I would first today like to share a huge, very mind-opening experience from my recent trip to Europe. Report an error in the passage at 1:34 Highlight the passage at 1:34

1:57 So end of April to beginning of May, I traveled with Leparate Konjin Geirin Godwin, director of the Soto Zen International Center, and we visited several temples in France. And I could probably spend entire night talking about that. But I like to choose or introduce one aspect from this trip that struck me so deeply. Report an error in the passage at 1:57 Highlight the passage at 1:57

2:32 It's about the interreligious dialogue. In other words, communication between different religions. I encountered two especially vivid examples of this at the temples we visited in Italy and the first temple we visited was called Fudengi. Fudengi was in north Italy and it's located in a very very beautiful countryside of Italy and when we arrived at the Milan airport which is north of Italy Report an error in the passage at 2:32 Highlight the passage at 2:32

3:17 People pick up and they pick us up by car and we drove about one hour and a half driving through beautiful green pastures and under beautiful Italian sky. Report an error in the passage at 3:17 Highlight the passage at 3:17

3:36 And when we finally reach the temple and come to the gate, I saw a little roadside shrine and I was curious, what's inside? And I looked inside and I saw the image of Madonna. And I was so surprised that I can't, I will pass around the pictures later. Report an error in the passage at 3:36 Highlight the passage at 3:36

4:02 But so this was a picture that I found in this little shrine here. And you can maybe have one, other online people. And I have another picture later. Report an error in the passage at 4:02 Highlight the passage at 4:02

4:23 What's most surprisingly is about this foot. There's two figures, one Buddhist priest and one Christian priest here, and also the painting of the temple structure. Report an error in the passage at 4:23 Highlight the passage at 4:23

4:39 And I asked, why you have the Madonna figure and, you know, Christian priest and Buddhist priest in the picture? And they're... Report an error in the passage at 4:39 Highlight the passage at 4:39

4:54 He explained that they have had a very close relationship with the local churches, so they are invited to the event, and also the temple, they invite the Christian priests to attend their ceremonies. Report an error in the passage at 4:54 Highlight the passage at 4:54

5:18 And you may think, oh, this is very new style temple that they are beginning, but actually their practice style is very... You know, following tradition. On the back, there is also the picture of the temple that you can see the structure of the zazen hall, the sodo, and other buildings. But they have also the connecting aisle with a roof that looks like a heiji aisle. Report an error in the passage at 5:18 Highlight the passage at 5:18

5:55 And their hot dharma hall also look very, you know. So this combination of following Soto Zen tradition and also communicating with the local churches really deeply moved my heart. Report an error in the passage at 5:55 Highlight the passage at 5:55

6:37 And during this trip, I encountered one more example of interreligious dialogue at another temple we visited in Rome. Has Report an error in the passage at 6:37 Highlight the passage at 6:37

6:54 anyone visited Rome before? Report an error in the passage at 6:54 Highlight the passage at 6:54

6:59 How was it? Beautiful. Ancient. Yeah, very ancient. The temple is located near the famous Colosseum site, and it's dearly in the ancient ruins. Report an error in the passage at 6:59 Highlight the passage at 6:59

7:25 When you walk through the street, it feels like you are walking inside a massive open-air museum. And you can deep feel how history has continued for thousands of years. Report an error in the passage at 7:25 Highlight the passage at 7:25

7:44 And one example I was surprised, not relating to dharma talk, I'm sorry, but there was water coming out of the streets and you can drink the water from that little fountain-like thing. And it's a drinkable water and the water duct they use. Or that they claim the Roman era water duct is still currently used. And I was, wow, this is, we live in history. Report an error in the passage at 7:44 Highlight the passage at 7:44

8:23 And right in this middle of historic city, the abbot of Zen Monji, he is also San Francisco Zen Center lineage, Jirorami Doshin, Dario Jirorami Doshin. So some of you have met him here. Report an error in the passage at 8:23 Highlight the passage at 8:23

8:43 And he's currently collaborating with the Vatican office. Vatican has an office called the Dicastery Hall Interreligious Dialogue. And they are organizing a conference together this June. And I will pass around the picture. This is the Vatican famous church. And this is the... We visited there and talked with the priest there who is in charge for Buddhists and also another person who is in taking. Report an error in the passage at 8:43 Highlight the passage at 8:43

9:43 The church holds Hinduism and other religions. And this is a flyer for this event. They're planning together, so I pass around. Report an error in the passage at 9:43 Highlight the passage at 9:43

10:15 And some of you may wonder why I visit these places. and I visited this place for my which for Report an error in the passage at 10:15 Highlight the passage at 10:15

10:31 My work or through my work, through my job, and I work for Soto Zen Buddhism International Center. And people ask often what actually I do at the international center. Broadly speaking, there are three major missions. Report an error in the passage at 10:31 Highlight the passage at 10:31

10:54 First, to share the teaching of the Soto Zen, Dogen Zenji and Kezan Zenji. And second, To support connection among temples and practitioners over the world. And third, to help strengthen the connection between temple community together and also to Japan. Report an error in the passage at 10:54 Highlight the passage at 10:54

11:29 Day-to-day work, actually it's somewhat similar to regular office work. I write a lot of emails, making flyers. Conducting people, organizing events, and handling some accounting-related tasks. At other times, I may teach zazen, or today I have the honor to be able to speak here. Report an error in the passage at 11:29 Highlight the passage at 11:29

12:02 During this trip, it was profoundly moving for me to witness such a ...natural and warm relationship between Catholics and Buddhists. Today, we are constantly surrounded by news that emphasizes separation, conflict, and division. Report an error in the passage at 12:02 Highlight the passage at 12:02

12:28 But this felt like a reminder or a hope that perhaps human beings are also learning little by little how... Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 12:28 Highlight the passage at 12:28

12:47 And also, it may not be entirely fair to say that modern times are filled only with conflict and bad news. Because the news naturally focuses on tragedy, disaster and division, seems dramatic enough to catch our attention. Report an error in the passage at 12:47 Highlight the passage at 12:47

13:16 But, in reality, it is always It's already something quite miraculous that we are able to walk, we are able to eat, speak, and gather together like today. Report an error in the passage at 13:16 Highlight the passage at 13:16

13:38 Yet these things usually do not become news. We rarely wake up in the morning and exclaim, Oh my God, I... I can walk and I can speak. Report an error in the passage at 13:38 Highlight the passage at 13:38

13:57 Usually, we only recognize the preciousness of these ordinary things when they are disrupted, when we become sick, injured, or lose them in some way. Or sometimes, after an intensive session, we may suddenly notice the vividness of Simply breathing, eating, or hearing the sound. For me, this realization came a hard way recently when I had a bike accident. Report an error in the passage at 13:57 Highlight the passage at 13:57

14:43 It wasn't that I attained some great enlightenment or anything like that, but I was just simply forced to deeply appreciate my ordinary day-to-day life. Report an error in the passage at 14:43 Highlight the passage at 14:43

15:00 Because of the injury, I had to really, really slow down for a few days. I had to move very slowly and eat little by little. Report an error in the passage at 15:00 Highlight the passage at 15:00

15:13 During the last practice period, Catherine often told us to, you know, slow down. Report an error in the passage at 15:13 Highlight the passage at 15:13

15:25 And through this accident, I was finally forced to exactly slow down as Report an error in the passage at 15:25 Highlight the passage at 15:25

15:36 I was breathing moment by moment. Walking step by step, I realized I was just simply being. I was surprised to see that this simple presence, just being alive and breathing, is always available and that is already complete. Nothing lacking. I breathe in and I breathe out. Report an error in the passage at 15:36 Highlight the passage at 15:36

16:12 Once my injuries healed and my health came back, I felt my head start spinning again, bringing back all the usual agitation and anxiety. But then I remembered I can always stop breathing and breathe out, breathing and breathe out. Report an error in the passage at 16:12 Highlight the passage at 16:12

16:36 Not to eliminate agitation and anxiety, but to include them, to hold them, to observe them and not be run by them. And I think this Continuous practice helps to remember that nothing lacking. Speaking Report an error in the passage at 16:36 Highlight the passage at 16:36

17:05 of continuous practice, I would like to introduce a koan that Reverend Hoitsu Suzuki Roshi referred to in his dharma talk at the Mountain Seat Ceremony at the Berkeley Zen Center last February. Report an error in the passage at 17:05 Highlight the passage at 17:05

17:29 To do live interpretation from Japanese into English for that talk. But afterward, I felt I wish I could fully convey what he meant. So today, I would like to take this opportunity to share a little of what he said. Report an error in the passage at 17:29 Highlight the passage at 17:29

18:03 Also, I feel this koan deeply relating to the theme of nothing lacking continuous practice. Report an error in the passage at 18:03 Highlight the passage at 18:03

18:14 Many people here may already know Leverett Hoitsu Roshi very well or may have visited him in Japan, but I would like to briefly introduce him for those who may not be familiar with his name. Report an error in the passage at 18:14 Highlight the passage at 18:14

18:36 He is the son of Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, who started San Francisco Zen Center. So Hoitsu Roshi is the son, and now the abbot of Rinso in a temple in Japan. He also recently became the deputy abbot of Eheiji, and he was also one of the guiding. teachers at the monastery where I trained in Japan. Report an error in the passage at 18:36 Highlight the passage at 18:36

19:11 The koan, hoitsu roshi, quoted at the mountain seat ceremony, Dhamma talk, goes One Report an error in the passage at 19:11 Highlight the passage at 19:11

19:24 day, Shakyamuni Buddha ascended the teaching seat. Everyone was waiting expectantly for his teaching, looking forward to what he would say. Then, Report an error in the passage at 19:24 Highlight the passage at 19:24

19:50 Buddha, without saying any word, he just simply descended from the seat. Seeing this, Manjushri Bodhisattva struck the wooden mallet and declared, When you truly perceive the Dharma King's Dharma, the Dharma King's Dharma is as it is. Report an error in the passage at 19:50 Highlight the passage at 19:50

20:20 Buddha just sat. Ascended the seat and descended from the chair without a word. And Manjushri Bodhisattva said, The Dharma King's Dharma is as it is. Report an error in the passage at 20:20 Highlight the passage at 20:20

20:39 What? If our teachers do this in the classroom in university, they could be in trouble. By Report an error in the passage at 20:39 Highlight the passage at 20:39

20:54 simply sitting and then stepping down, the Buddha was demonstrating nothing lacking. In the most direct way possible, Manjushri hitting the wood and declaring the Dharma King's Dharma is as it is. Report an error in the passage at 20:54 Highlight the passage at 20:54

21:14 It wakes everyone up to the reality of the present moment. I think this is the practice of Zazen. When we practice Zazen, we do not sit to achieve something or to improve ourselves. We just sit. Report an error in the passage at 21:14 Highlight the passage at 21:14

21:36 We simply express. What we already are, nothing lacking. We are the Buddha. Every single one of us, every living being is the Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 21:36 Highlight the passage at 21:36

21:54 And we continue to practice in this way because we are the Buddha. Report an error in the passage at 21:54 Highlight the passage at 21:54

22:06 This zazen is not just on the cushion at zendo, but in all aspects of our life and our practice. Being right here, And right now, I'd Report an error in the passage at 22:06 Highlight the passage at 22:06

22:25 like to share one of my experience when I served as anja or jisha to Hoitsu Roshi at a monastery I trained. Report an error in the passage at 22:25 Highlight the passage at 22:25

22:42 In monastery, anja or jisha is a person who takes personal care of their senior teachers, accompanying them from their room to the... the zendo, or the sitting hall, preparing their tea, carrying their orioke bowls, and serving as an attendant. Report an error in the passage at 22:42 Highlight the passage at 22:42

23:07 One morning, Hoitsu Roshi was the doshi, the officiating priest, who leads the morning chanting, and also, before Zazen, offers incense and visiting each altars around the temple. Report an error in the passage at 23:07 Highlight the passage at 23:07

23:30 As his teacher, I accompanied him. So it was around 4.20 in the morning, so it was still very dark. Report an error in the passage at 23:30 Highlight the passage at 23:30

23:43 So we started at the altar of Idaten, one of the guardian deities. There, under the dim candlelight, we waited in the silence for the sounding of the wooden board being hit. Report an error in the passage at 23:43 Highlight the passage at 23:43

24:05 And the wooden board sound we hear and we start. I handed him a stick of incense and he offered it to the altar. Then we moved on to the founder's hall and the dharma hall. Watching him, I was so deeply impressed. Report an error in the passage at 24:05 Highlight the passage at 24:05

24:31 I could really feel how in the intensity or how his For being seriously offered the incense and then bowed towards the ancestors, he Report an error in the passage at 24:31 Highlight the passage at 24:31

24:53 had probably performed this ritual hundreds, thousands of times. Also, this is before Zazen starts, so there's no one really looking, and only me that morning. But he really... He put himself out completely, the intensity, the sincerity. He Report an error in the passage at 24:53 Highlight the passage at 24:53

25:28 was entirely right here, right now. And I thought, wow, this is what continuous practice means. And that was the wordless teaching I received from him. In Report an error in the passage at 25:28 Highlight the passage at 25:28

25:52 Japan, there is an expression, which means to teach. With your back, because your back has no mouth, you cannot teach with words. Instead, how you behave, how you act, and your very being becomes the most direct teaching. This is actually a bit scary, because there's nowhere to hide. Report an error in the passage at 25:52 Highlight the passage at 25:52

26:37 When Shakyamuni Buddha descended from his seat without a word, we might think, oh, great, we don't have to say anything. But in reality, it means that your entire being is expressing who you are. Report an error in the passage at 26:37 Highlight the passage at 26:37

26:57 There's nowhere to hide. Report an error in the passage at 26:57 Highlight the passage at 26:57

27:10 Hoitsu Roshi shared another classic Zen story in his talk. It is about Master Yaksan. One day, Master Yaksan had not given a dharma talk for a long time. So the temple's director approached him and said, the assembly of monks has been waiting for a long time to hear your teaching. Please, Master, give us a lecture. Report an error in the passage at 27:10 Highlight the passage at 27:10

27:47 Master Yaoshan agreed. The bell was rung, and all the monks gathered in the hall, full of anticipation. Report an error in the passage at 27:47 Highlight the passage at 27:47

28:02 Master Yaoshan came out, mounted the teaching seat, and sat there in silence for just a few moments. Then, without saying a single word, he stood up and walked straight back to his room. Report an error in the passage at 28:02 Highlight the passage at 28:02

28:25 The director was completely confused. He followed Yaku-san or Yosan to his room and said, Master, you promised to give us a lecture. Why didn't you say anything? Master Yosan looked at him and said, For scriptures, there are scripture teachers. For commentaries, there are commentary teachers. Why do you question this old monk? What Report an error in the passage at 28:25 Highlight the passage at 28:25

29:02 do you think of his teaching? What he was expressing? I Report an error in the passage at 29:02 Highlight the passage at 29:02

29:14 do not think Master Elshan was rejecting words or teaching themselves. Report an error in the passage at 29:14 Highlight the passage at 29:14

29:24 Zen used sutras, commentaries, and dharma talks too. But perhaps in this moment, that moment, he was pointing to something. Report an error in the passage at 29:24 Highlight the passage at 29:24

29:40 Beyond explanations, something that cannot be fully captured by language. Report an error in the passage at 29:40 Highlight the passage at 29:40

29:50 Without saying a word, Master Yaoshan had already given his teaching completely. This Report an error in the passage at 29:50 Highlight the passage at 29:50

30:04 brings me back to Zazen practice. During Hoitsuroshi's talk, he also said that sometimes people come to him and ask him, What Zazen is good for in today's world, especially when there is so much tragedy and violence. Maybe some of you have wondered the same question too. I do sometimes ask myself that question as well. Report an error in the passage at 30:04 Highlight the passage at 30:04

30:43 But Zazen is Buddha's activity. It is nothing to gain. It is not to gain something. It is not to change something. Report an error in the passage at 30:43 Highlight the passage at 30:43

30:57 And that practice is the powerful practice. Report an error in the passage at 30:57 Highlight the passage at 30:57

31:11 Also, Hoitsu Roshi shared the story when Shunryu Suzuki Roshi was nearing death. A visiting student asked him a similar question. And Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, although he was becoming weak, he answered back in a very loud voice. Report an error in the passage at 31:11 Highlight the passage at 31:11

31:39 You still don't get it? Do Report an error in the passage at 31:39 Highlight the passage at 31:39

31:56 we get it? Report an error in the passage at 31:56 Highlight the passage at 31:56

32:01 Zazen is Buddha's activity. It is not practice to gain anything or change anything. If we get it, we continue to sit. And if we do not get it, we also continue to sit. Report an error in the passage at 32:01 Highlight the passage at 32:01

32:24 Thank you very much for listening. And if you have any questions, Report an error in the passage at 32:24 Highlight the passage at 32:24

32:34 or comments or thoughts. Report an error in the passage at 32:34 Highlight the passage at 32:34

32:41 Can I ask one thing? Can you take picture? Report an error in the passage at 32:41 Highlight the passage at 32:41

32:49 I said in my week report I use time for preparing dharma talks. I like to show I did dharma talk. I Report an error in the passage at 32:49 Highlight the passage at 32:49

33:13 need to make serious face. Report an error in the passage at 33:13 Highlight the passage at 33:13

33:20 a picture with that silly bear. So we say, oh. Report an error in the passage at 33:20 Highlight the passage at 33:20

33:28 Thank you. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 33:28 Highlight the passage at 33:28

33:35 got started a new tradition sorry we're all going to want a picture of ourselves sorry Report an error in the passage at 33:35 Highlight the passage at 33:35

33:53 I'm Kathleen. Hello. I know you. Just to comment, especially since I was raised Catholic and I'm... But to see that picture of the Virgin Mary with the picture of the Buddhist and the Catholic priest there, very moving. I can see why it really touched you. Because that figure of her, I grew up, she was very important to me. And so it really was very touching to see that. Report an error in the passage at 33:53 Highlight the passage at 33:53

34:22 So I thank you for sharing that. I just want to say thank you so much. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 34:22 Highlight the passage at 34:22

34:43 Thank you. I noticed that you're wearing a different okesa, is that right, today? Is there anything special about that or is it a different color? This is a very special okesa for me because my teacher made and gave to me. Also, this has, I'm not wearing good, but this has nine jou. Nine, yes. So usual chanting, I wear the seven ones, but for dharma talks, I wear this one my teacher gave me. Report an error in the passage at 34:43 Highlight the passage at 34:43

35:29 And Zago is not matching because I haven't made one yet. He just gave me the Kesar. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 35:29 Highlight the passage at 35:29

35:59 You said that, thank you for your talk, that Zazen is the Buddha's activity. And how is the Buddha's activity sitting down and standing up? Can you help me understand how that is Zazen? Report an error in the passage at 35:59 Highlight the passage at 35:59

36:18 Or is that Zazen? Can that be Zazen if the Buddha is doing it? So I think my understanding, I can share my understanding. And if you have... Other understanding, please share too. My understanding is Zazen practice, we sit with all beings and it's really difficult to put in words what you probably may feel Report an error in the passage at 36:18 Highlight the passage at 36:18

37:01 it or not Report an error in the passage at 37:01 Highlight the passage at 37:01

37:08 knowing, but not knowing to, yeah. So trying to express that in a most sincere way, I think that was the intention. Report an error in the passage at 37:08 Highlight the passage at 37:08

37:26 NITENTION OF THE TEACHER So would you say that the sitting down and the getting up was Buddha's activity because there was a sincere and present something? Report an error in the passage at 37:26 Highlight the passage at 37:26

37:43 Something that can't be said? Something. Report an error in the passage at 37:43 Highlight the passage at 37:43

37:49 I think it's kind of pointing to us. Report an error in the passage at 37:49 Highlight the passage at 37:49

37:57 Don't caught up in the words or the specific activity. I think that's the pointing to that. Thank you. Thank you. Go Report an error in the passage at 37:57 Highlight the passage at 37:57

38:35 ahead, Lori. Report an error in the passage at 38:35 Highlight the passage at 38:35

38:42 Hi, Tenmyo. Hi. Thank you for your talk. Just to follow up with Heiko's thought or comment, What came to my mind was we za zen to be inactive, to not be, for lack of action. And I was wondering, I kind of interpreted the standing or the ascending and sitting and then getting up and descending as action. Report an error in the passage at 38:42 Highlight the passage at 38:42

39:32 So when we zazen, we're intentionally being inactive and that zazen is a Buddha act or an action of Buddha. And also the sitting and then standing without saying anything was like an active action of being Buddha. That's where I went with it. So I just wanted to kind of build on that. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 39:32 Highlight the passage at 39:32

40:05 Thank you. And yeah, that's all Report an error in the passage at 40:05 Highlight the passage at 40:05

40:16 the activities, sitting, standing, everything is we like we do as Zazen. And yeah, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I Report an error in the passage at 40:16 Highlight the passage at 40:16

40:59 have a very simple observation that I think with the simplicity of the movement, And just the words of your presentation today was like a gravitas in grace. You know, there was such, it was just simple, right? And it slowed you down, I think. There was recently another Zen priest who spoke about slowing down a fraction. And that really hit me in that moment that I really, the theme for this year for me has been to slow down, to see the daily miracles and be present. Report an error in the passage at 40:59 Highlight the passage at 40:59

41:36 So thank you. I felt that this was a very powerful, I don't know, it was just a powerful presentation for me. So thank you. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 41:36 Highlight the passage at 41:36

41:48 Yes, I also have the tendency always hurrying up. But today I wanted to take this opportunity to share my experience that the dialogue of the Catholic and Buddhist and also the teaching that And that's about it. Report an error in the passage at 41:48 Highlight the passage at 41:48

42:09 Hou Itsuroshi handed to us. Oh, Report an error in the passage at 42:09 Highlight the passage at 42:09

42:16 so I had a question about, I guess, how Zen made it to Europe. I guess my understanding is that here in California, there's the Shinri Suzuki brought here, and there's also the Rinzai priests in LA. And I saw how there's some Chan temples, there's some... Thien temples that Thich Nhat Hanh established. How did Zen and So speaking of Soto Zen, there was a priest, Taizen Deshimaru, he really spreads Soto Zen in Europe. Report an error in the passage at 42:16 Highlight the passage at 42:16

42:58 He's about 10 years younger than Suzuki Roshi, and he went probably seven or eight years later when Suzuki... Roshi came to U.S. and about seven, eight years later, Taizen Deshimaru Roshi, he went to Europe. And I think that was the time that in Western countries there is a lot of interest and appreciation of the Zen teaching. Report an error in the passage at 42:58 Highlight the passage at 42:58

43:36 And he also passed seeds away about the same age when Suzuki Roshi passed away. So about 10 years later, Suzuki Roshi passed away. He also passed away. So I saw that they, as if it's like, you know, their mission to bring Zen to, you know, to the United States, to Europe. And they have, you know, strong students and as if their mission, they finished their mission kind of feeling. Report an error in the passage at 43:36 Highlight the passage at 43:36

44:11 Oh, Report an error in the passage at 44:11 Highlight the passage at 44:11

44:20 yes. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma. Report an error in the passage at 44:20 Highlight the passage at 44:20