On Gossip

0:00 This podcast is offered by San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Report an error in the passage at 0:00 Highlight the passage at 0:00

0:13 Good evening. Report an error in the passage at 0:13 Highlight the passage at 0:13

0:20 As we were chanting, I was noticing how that apprehension that always shows up when I'm waiting upstairs and then coming down the stairs, approaching the moment of speaking publicly. Report an error in the passage at 0:20 Highlight the passage at 0:20

0:40 It kind of evaporates as soon as I enter the room. There is something about seeing all of you, the short ritual we follow before a dharma talk, feeling the presence of all of you, all the people behind me. It's just so reassuring and it makes me think that this moment, like every other moment, is co-created. Report an error in the passage at 0:40 Highlight the passage at 0:40

1:14 So thank you. Thank you for being here. Welcome to Beginner's Mind Temple. Special welcome to any one of you who may be new to Beginner's Mind Temple and welcome to all the beings online probably sipping tea in their home or being in some beautiful resort around the world and thinking, okay, why not I'll do this. Report an error in the passage at 1:14 Highlight the passage at 1:14

1:41 It's kind of a nice fantasy to have. So Report an error in the passage at 1:41 Highlight the passage at 1:41

1:52 I hope that The topic I thought of bringing tonight feels nourishing and speaks to us because I would like to speak about speech and a particular form of speech. I would like to speak about gossip. It's a very, very human activity, gossiping. Report an error in the passage at 1:52 Highlight the passage at 1:52

2:28 Hopefully so. I mean, it would be nice to... Think that dogs and cats that live in our homes cannot gossip, right? It's good not to know that. Who knows? Because if they did, who knows what they would say about their owners. Report an error in the passage at 2:28 Highlight the passage at 2:28

2:51 The Association for Psychological Science commissioned a study on gossip in 2019 in 2019 and found that humans Gossip on average 52 minutes a day. I wonder how you score against that statistics. Report an error in the passage at 2:51 Highlight the passage at 2:51

3:18 We're kind of fortunate that sometimes we actually have silent retreats so we don't gossip at least for a day or for five or seven days and then we have some credit to kind of get up the following week. Report an error in the passage at 3:18 Highlight the passage at 3:18

3:34 The motivation to speak about gossip actually comes partly from Personal experience, because I have been living for or working for about 40 years in communities that are fairly contained, academic institutions, small academic institutions, and then San Francisco Science Center where gossip can flourish. Report an error in the passage at 3:34 Highlight the passage at 3:34

3:59 And people have known each other for a long time and tend to share many things about other people. But also from a statement I came across a couple of weeks ago from Pope Francis in 2018. He gave a general address and gave this statement. Gossipers not only kill, but are like terrorists because their tongues throw a bomb and then they calmly walk away. Report an error in the passage at 3:59 Highlight the passage at 3:59

4:43 I'm going to read it again. Gossipers not only kill, but are like terrorists because their tongues throw a bomb and then they calmly walk away. Report an error in the passage at 4:43 Highlight the passage at 4:43

4:56 And what struck me about this statement is not only that it's very stark, but also that it seems to emphasize an impact of gossip on others. Report an error in the passage at 4:56 Highlight the passage at 4:56

5:10 And I thought, well, there is a karmic effect. Also on ourselves in gossiping and I looked through other Judeo-Christian statements or sources and I found that in Proverbs King Solomon actually have a different emphasis. He says, death and life are in the power of the tongue and those who love it and indulge it. Report an error in the passage at 5:10 Highlight the passage at 5:10

5:43 will eat its fruit and bear the consequences of their words. And so it gives the combination of the two statements somehow gave me the sense of the 360 degree. I imagine that if I asked you whether you think that gossip is a wholesome activity, probably not many people would raise their hands. Report an error in the passage at 5:43 Highlight the passage at 5:43

6:18 Gossip tends to be thought always as somewhat divisive, somewhat responding to some malicious intention. And for those of us that came from some sort of Judeo-Christian tradition, it also has the color of sin. Report an error in the passage at 6:18 Highlight the passage at 6:18

6:38 I grew up, of course, in that tradition. I'm Italian, and I grew up in a country that, at least at that time, was mostly Catholic. And I grew up in a small city, a town that now counts more or less half a million people. But when I was growing up 50, 60 years ago, it was a small town that really, really enjoyed gossiping. Report an error in the passage at 6:38 Highlight the passage at 6:38

7:07 And I would say that gossip was really the way in which people knew about each other more than directly. directly and gossip was Report an error in the passage at 7:07 Highlight the passage at 7:07

7:20 Often used as a form of social control. People were afraid of being who they really were for fear of being an object of gossip. And gossip was powerful. It could prevent someone from finding a job in the town. It could prevent someone from finding a romantic relationship, friends, and so on. So it was a quite strong relationship. Report an error in the passage at 7:20 Highlight the passage at 7:20

7:51 A tool of social control, of avoiding change, maintaining the status quo, creating clubs, creating cliques, excluding others, and so on. Report an error in the passage at 7:51 Highlight the passage at 7:51

8:12 So I have a little bit of a bias, an instinctive bias, in thinking about gossip as something negative. But in and of itself, gossip does not have to be negative. negative. Definitions of gossip seem to go all over the place. They What is the definition of gossip? The definition I like the most that seems to be most comprehensive is actually from a scholar of Christian ethics, and she says, conversation Report an error in the passage at 8:12 Highlight the passage at 8:12

9:09 or a report about other people's personal lives, no, sorry, sorry, private, informal, some will say idle, evaluative communication about persons who are not absent, who are absent. I'm going to read it again, I'm sorry. Private, informal, some will say idle, evaluative communication about persons who are absent. Report an error in the passage at 9:09 Highlight the passage at 9:09

9:39 So sometimes it's completely innocuous. You know, if I say something like, oh, you know, yesterday I saw Tanto Tim bowing. I don't know what's going on with him. It's not a gossip that's going to make a lot of waves because Tanto Tim. bows every day a lot of times so it's not it's not a gossip that's gonna create anything that you probably think Lorenzo get a life you know and oh by the way my name is Lorenzo What is the secret of gossip? Report an error in the passage at 9:39 Highlight the passage at 9:39

10:18 Sometimes gossips are sharing a secret, which is like an oxymoron in and of itself. A secret is not supposed to be shared. Report an error in the passage at 10:18 Highlight the passage at 10:18

10:30 Sometimes gossips are really pro-social, they're really beneficial. There is a byproduct of the Me Too movement in Hollywood called Whisper Network, which is a network of gossips among women in the entertainment business who kind of communicate with each other about men that in work-related situations. Report an error in the passage at 10:30 Highlight the passage at 10:30

10:59 Have manifested predatory behaviors and so fundamentally can save lives in and of itself. And we can't think of something like that as malicious, even though really it needs a lot of care because the power of the gossip can be extremely strong and can completely ruin the reputation of someone. So even if it's beneficial, even if the intention is beneficial. Report an error in the passage at 10:59 Highlight the passage at 10:59

11:26 The substance of the gossip has to be proven somehow, has to be solid enough so that it's not only based on a perception, for example. Report an error in the passage at 11:26 Highlight the passage at 11:26

11:38 But personally, as I already said, I would tend to think of gossips as something that has some sort of a malicious, divisive intention, something that is really meant to exclude. To create cliques, lobbies and so on, especially in close communities like a monastery, for example, or the workplace. And so the big question that came to me as I thought about these themes is, how can we help ourselves? Report an error in the passage at 11:38 Highlight the passage at 11:38

12:13 It's a very human behavior. How can we use practice or what does practice give us that can be helpful to sort of become aware? behavior Report an error in the passage at 12:13 Highlight the passage at 12:13

12:29 of when we can cause harm. And something comes to my mind about a dharma talk that the great and beloved teacher Gil Fronstal gave some time ago, a few years ago actually, and at the end of the dharma talk there was some space for questions and answers and a student asked him something like, what does it mean for you to be a Buddhist in your everyday life. Report an error in the passage at 12:29 Highlight the passage at 12:29

13:05 And Gil sort of smiled and could have gone totally scholarly, of course, about it. But he said, at least I tried not to make anything worse. I thought that that was a wonderful answer that sort of paraphrases the three pure precepts that we actually vow on every time we have a... Report an error in the passage at 13:05 Highlight the passage at 13:05

13:31 Bodhisattva's precept ceremony, do good, not do harm, and live for the benefit of all beings. I think that these three pure precepts, at least as a background of our expressions, of our communication to others, could be really beneficial. Is this beneficial? Could this harm? And then reflect on whether we could actually say it in a different way. Report an error in the passage at 13:31 Highlight the passage at 13:31

14:03 Or not saying it at all, and so on. Report an error in the passage at 14:03 Highlight the passage at 14:03

14:08 But I would say that Buddhist ethics has a lot of teachings that can actually help in this regard. First, the Eightfold Path, that's contained in the Fourth Noble Truth, paves the way to freedom, to liberation. And the third sort of admonition or recommendation of the Eightfold Path is right speech. Which in Pāli is Sama Vaka which has been translated not necessarily a right speech, Sama has been translated as comprehensive speech. Report an error in the passage at 14:08 Highlight the passage at 14:08

14:45 Speech that considers all possible sides of a situation rather than just right because of course if you say right and then that is wrong. Report an error in the passage at 14:45 Highlight the passage at 14:45

14:58 For Report an error in the passage at 14:58 Highlight the passage at 14:58

15:01 speech to qualify as right speech, speech has to have Some characteristics. Has to be true, has to be timely, has to be kind, has to be beneficial, and has to be given, has to be offered with the heart-mind of goodwill. Report an error in the passage at 15:01 Highlight the passage at 15:01

15:28 So really, if we want to practice right speech from the Eightfold Path, every time we have the instinct to say something, we should be able to ask ourselves, Is this timely? Is this the right time to actually say what I'm going to say? Is it kind? Is it true? I mean, it's really complicated because, of course, the instinct to speech is often instantaneous. Report an error in the passage at 15:28 Highlight the passage at 15:28

15:57 And so to go through all these characteristics of anything you're about to say can be very, very difficult. difficult. So I actually found a way to To kind of approach this difficulty in a much, what feels to me, much more natural, perhaps, way, Nikki Mirgafore actually wrote something in The Lion's Roar in this regard. Report an error in the passage at 15:57 Highlight the passage at 15:57

16:24 And she writes, if we are moved to lie, gossip, or speak harshly, we inquire, am I stressed? Am I motivated by greed, ill will, desire for recognition? recognition or fear of rejection. Report an error in the passage at 16:24 Highlight the passage at 16:24

16:47 We re-establish our grounding through pausing. Then we actively re-engage with wise intention and benevolence. I'm going to read it again. Report an error in the passage at 16:47 Highlight the passage at 16:47

17:00 If we are moved to lie, gossip or speak harshly, we inquire, am I stressed? Am I motivated by greed, ill will, desire for recognition or fear of rejection? Report an error in the passage at 17:00 Highlight the passage at 17:00

17:19 We reestablish our grounding through pausing, then we actually reengage with wise intention and benevolence. And to me, this sort of way of thinking about, of reflecting on what we're about to say, feels very different than the five characteristics of right speech, because, at least in my perception, when I think about, is it true? Report an error in the passage at 17:19 Highlight the passage at 17:19

17:47 Is it kind, etc.? It's about what I'm about to say rather than about me. And what Nikki seems to suggest is to translate, to sort of transpose those reflections into how do you feel before you speak? Report an error in the passage at 17:47 Highlight the passage at 17:47

18:08 Do you feel agitated? Could it be good to actually wait a second before one says what he's about to say, if that's the state of mind? And I think it could prevent a lot of harm. Report an error in the passage at 18:08 Highlight the passage at 18:08

18:35 This makes me think of a situation that actually happened to me when I was treasurer here in the accounting department. And one day I received an email that, in response to something I had asked, that really triggered me. It felt judgmental. It triggered me very much. And of course, the first instinct was, This person deserves immediately a response. And so I wrote a response, sent it, and I regretted it for so long because the conversation sort of escalated more and more into stuff that had nothing to do with the point of the first email. Report an error in the passage at 18:35 Highlight the passage at 18:35

19:29 It became offensive, it became critical, judgmental about ways we had to do things, etc. To the point that we both realized where it had gone and had to apologize to each other and just stop there and go back to the original email and figure out what to do about that. So later I went for dogasan with one of our teachers and I actually asked, what do you do? Report an error in the passage at 19:29 Highlight the passage at 19:29

20:00 What you do when you receive an email, say, and emails are terrible in that way, you know, you receive an email that really triggers you and you really feel like this person needs an answer right away, you know. Report an error in the passage at 20:00 Highlight the passage at 20:00

20:20 And this teacher said, of course it happens to them too, but he said, I write the reply right away, the way it comes. And then I save it, rather than send it. I save it, and then a couple of hours later, when I feel a little bit less agitated, I read it again. Most of it needs to be dropped, but I actually can get to a point in which I can answer in a kind, beneficial, etc., etc. Report an error in the passage at 20:20 Highlight the passage at 20:20

20:52 way. So that pausing is really important. I mean, in the last... In the past, In the winter practice period here at City Center, the practice leader of the practice period, Christina Lehner, reminded us many times about this acronym WAIT. Why am I talking? And then there is a corollary to this acronym. How am I talking? Report an error in the passage at 20:52 Highlight the passage at 20:52

21:32 Actually, I mean, she reminded us several times a week, I would say, for two and a half months. And you could actually feel the shift in the way people were talking. And that's sort of the power of reflection as one talks. And for me, it was super, super helpful because it became, as it sort of became internal. Report an error in the passage at 21:32 Highlight the passage at 21:32

22:00 He sort of always gave me a little buffer just to ask the question, just to, this weight would pop up in my mind and then I could actually make a choice rather than instinctively reacting. Report an error in the passage at 22:00 Highlight the passage at 22:00

22:20 It's very helpful and I think that having a weight acronym as a sticker on the fridge or on the side of the screen of the computer, maybe at the bottom of the cell phone. It could be very, very helpful, at least for a while, and then it becomes sort of something more natural that we can actually simply have in ourselves. Report an error in the passage at 22:20 Highlight the passage at 22:20

22:46 And right speech is reflected very much in four of our Bodhisattva precepts. Do not lie, do not slander, do not praise self at the expense of others, and do not disparage the triple treasure. I mean, all the precepts are interdependent, of course, and speak to each other, but these four seem to be the most direct that actually help us in this way. Report an error in the passage at 22:46 Highlight the passage at 22:46

23:17 Reb Anderson, in his book, Being Upright, which is a book on the Bodhisattva precepts, calls Report an error in the passage at 23:17 Highlight the passage at 23:17

23:30 the sixth grave precept that we chant as I vow not to slander as do not not speaking of others faults he writes what is meant here by speaking of the faults of others first of all it is speaking of others with the intention conscious or unconscious to cause disrespect or disharmony between people this phenomenon could be called slander here Slender means to intentionally make defamatory statements that are injurious to the reputation of another person. This is not speaking of another person's faults directly face to face with that person. Report an error in the passage at 23:30 Highlight the passage at 23:30

24:23 It is speaking to others about someone's faults. Report an error in the passage at 24:23 Highlight the passage at 24:23

24:31 There is something about our instinctive survivalist attitude about sometimes Using gossip to create space, what we think is to create space for ourselves, to be able to be what we think we should be, we need to be, we want to be. And in doing that, create clubs, create a mentality of are you in or are you out, sort of exclusion and so on. Report an error in the passage at 24:31 Highlight the passage at 24:31

25:06 And this contradicts also another vow we make actually here at Zen Center every morning. At the beginning of our morning service, when we take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Saṅgha, and when we take refuge in Saṅgha, we actually say, bringing harmony to everyone, free from hindrance. It's exactly the opposite of what that instinct of making a practice environment or a workplace or a family environment the way we think it should be so we can maintain continuity with ourselves. Report an error in the passage at 25:06 Highlight the passage at 25:06

25:43 So that's a place that also can be really helpful in terms of reflections. And then in the Pāli Canon, the Buddha also explicitly guides us not to tell there what one has heard here. Report an error in the passage at 25:43 Highlight the passage at 25:43

26:01 And Rabbi Anderson adds, unless we meet what we hear from others, of others' faults, with a carefully questioning attitude, Report an error in the passage at 26:01 Highlight the passage at 26:01

26:13 Words of criticism can poison our minds against others. It isn't just the negative gossip that accomplishes the poisoning of our minds but also our passive listening to it. Report an error in the passage at 26:13 Highlight the passage at 26:13

26:30 We should always assume that the waves of gossip reach shores we cannot foresee. It's like the vibration of the big bell. We have no idea where they end. And so I would like to Conclude and then we can have a few minutes for questions and comments with the story. And it's a confessional story from 16th century Rome. Report an error in the passage at 26:30 Highlight the passage at 26:30

27:01 And it's about, it's called The Feathers and the Wind. And it's a story that centered on Saint Filippo Neri. And he was a Catholic priest, as you can imagine, who became known as the patron of laughter. Report an error in the passage at 27:01 Highlight the passage at 27:01

27:20 But also, and I have no idea why, the patron of U.S. Special Forces. I have no idea why this guy became a patron of the U.S. Special Forces. Anyway, here is the story. A woman known for her malicious gossip and loose tongue came to St. Filippo Neri in the confessional, deeply sorry for the harm she had caused. Report an error in the passage at 27:20 Highlight the passage at 27:20

27:50 She asked for a way to make amends. For her penance, the saint gave her a strange, highly specific instruction. She was to go to the market, purchase a chicken, and pluck its feathers one by one as she walked through the streets of Rome all the way back to the church. Report an error in the passage at 27:50 Highlight the passage at 27:50

28:16 Confused by obedience, the woman completed the task. She returned to the saint. Handed him the plucked chicken and asked if she was now forgiven. Guess what? Not quite, said Saint Filippo said. Now I want you to go back and retrace your steps. Gather up every single feather you plucked and bring them back to me. Report an error in the passage at 28:16 Highlight the passage at 28:16

28:51 The woman's heart sank. She protested, but it is impossible. impossible. The wind has scattered them in every possible direction and they do not even know where they've gone. Report an error in the passage at 28:51 Highlight the passage at 28:51

29:06 Looking at her gravely, the priest delivered the moral. And so it is with your malicious gossip. The words you spoke have been carried about in every You cannot recall them. You can never fully undo the damage you have done. To a person's reputation. It's a good lesson. Thank you very much. So I think we have about 10 minutes, I guess, for questions and comments. Report an error in the passage at 29:06 Highlight the passage at 29:06

29:45 How Report an error in the passage at 29:45 Highlight the passage at 29:45

29:55 do you differentiate good gossip and bad gossip? Report an error in the passage at 29:55 Highlight the passage at 29:55

30:07 What I understand, good gossip is fundamentally beneficial gossip. Like, for example, the Whisper Network we talked about. The intention is... to be beneficial to all beings, really. Report an error in the passage at 30:07 Highlight the passage at 30:07

30:28 Bad gossip that I would call more malicious gossip is really motivated in my mind by the intention to divide the intention to Report an error in the passage at 30:28 Highlight the passage at 30:28

30:47 But even if you have good intentions for the gossip, its impact cannot be good, is that? I'm sorry, say it again. Even if you have good intentions for the gossip... But it might not be the result. Is that something? It might not be the result. Like if you had good intentions to gossip about someone, right? Report an error in the passage at 30:47 Highlight the passage at 30:47

31:08 And you do that with an intent to have a good result. Yeah. But that doesn't always happen. Sometimes your good intentions for the gossip doesn't result in a good result. I would say that the intention is the... Discriminant there between a good and bad gossip. I would say, I mean, you can reflect as much as possible on how likely it is that that good result is gonna materialize and make the best decision you can. Report an error in the passage at 31:08 Highlight the passage at 31:08

31:44 It's very subtle, even something beneficial, I mean, potentially beneficial, like speaking about someone that had done something wonderful yesterday, for example. That person might not like that to be public. And so maybe the best way to do it is to ask, would you be okay if I share that such a wonderful thing you did? Report an error in the passage at 31:44 Highlight the passage at 31:44

32:09 Whatever it is. So to make sure as much as you can that you're not harming, consciously or unconsciously. Thank you. Report an error in the passage at 32:09 Highlight the passage at 32:09

32:33 Hi, Lorenzo. Thank you. You're welcome. I really love the intervention that you... mentioned from the book that, and I've done this before and I've forgotten and stopped doing it, but it is really helpful to, if I can think of it, to pause when I know I'm about to gossip and say, like there's a litany of questions there, but for me to just say to myself, like, what do I actually need right now? Report an error in the passage at 32:33 Highlight the passage at 32:33

33:07 Like, why am I about to do this? Like, what am I really needing? Because then it sort of makes impulse to gossip more of an indicator of like what do i actually need and then i can figure out okay how do i get that in a better more healthy skillful way right um and And it's interesting the answers that come up. Report an error in the passage at 33:07 Highlight the passage at 33:07

33:35 And it's usually like, I'm looking for connection with that person, right? Yeah, I guess that's it. Yeah, sometimes we do it to make friends, to connect, to fill the gap. You know, silence is uncomfortable for many people, and sometimes we don't know what to say, and we talk about someone else rather than talking about ourselves, or maybe saying. Report an error in the passage at 33:35 Highlight the passage at 33:35

33:40 Right. Report an error in the passage at 33:40 Highlight the passage at 33:40

34:03 I am uncomfortable with the silence and I feel the urge to speak about someone else, you know, and that might open up the conversation in a very different direction. And get that connection, but it's not necessarily what's needed for a connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, I mean, it's a pseudo connection. Report an error in the passage at 34:03 Highlight the passage at 34:03

34:25 Right. Really, yeah. Right. And my partner and I were just talking about this the other day, like, and it's not around gossip, but around speech. Report an error in the passage at 34:25 Highlight the passage at 34:25

34:34 Why am I talking? Because there's sometimes some discordance between me talking and talking and talking and he doesn't really want to be talking. So practicing that same thing, why am I talking? What am I looking for right now? And it's like, oh, I don't need to just keep... Going like I am right now. Thank you, Ellen. Anyway. It can be used in many different ways, I guess. I'm bowing so I'm freeing you from... Report an error in the passage at 34:34 Highlight the passage at 34:34

35:10 Hi, Report an error in the passage at 35:10 Highlight the passage at 35:10

35:19 Lorenzo. Thank you. I really appreciate your talk. Good to see you. Thank you. So I come from a culture where gossiping is a form of bonding. bonding, she's a mess, right? And... I'm finding myself a lot more aware of it and just kind of discerning whether this is skillful or unskillful right now. And I've realized that I'm spending a lot more time in silence in my family. And so I'm just wondering how do you stay with that? Report an error in the passage at 35:19 Highlight the passage at 35:19

35:53 Because I'm also starting to feel a little separate. Right, and so there's like this feeling of separation from the group dynamic. And so how do you be skillful but still feel a part of what's happening? Yeah, sometimes I've heard people say, I really had a difficulty participating in this conversation. Can we talk about something else? Report an error in the passage at 35:53 Highlight the passage at 35:53

36:21 But also that silence may actually open up. an inquiry about why is there silence, right? Maybe there are things that in the family are not shared about the people themselves, and we'd rather talk about someone else than talking Report an error in the passage at 36:21 Highlight the passage at 36:21

36:43 use it in some way as a teacher. That may be a skillful way to use that time, and it's wonderful that you can actually notice that. Report an error in the passage at 36:43 Highlight the passage at 36:43

36:57 participate if you feel like it's not skillful. I think that's a wonderful thing. Yeah, I'm trying to have compassion for it because my family's really going through a lot of grief. We just lost somebody in our immediate family, and so I know that it's a form of distraction and not really confronting, you know? Report an error in the passage at 36:57 Highlight the passage at 36:57

37:19 What it is, yeah. So compassion, obviously, is a good friend there. there and and which doesn't necessarily imply that you have to participate if that's not what's happening for you you can still be with them and just let it fall where it falls without for example you know bringing it forward then Report an error in the passage at 37:19 Highlight the passage at 37:19

37:45 Hi. Report an error in the passage at 37:45 Highlight the passage at 37:45

38:01 Thank you for the talk today. It was wonderful. Thank you. It made me think of Something I heard a long time ago, and they said there's three types of people. There's people who talk about people. There's people who talk about things that happened or events. And then there's people that talk about ideas. And it's like the last category that I feel like is the best kind of company. You can just, because they're so abstract, you can really, I think that's the best form of connection with another. Report an error in the passage at 38:01 Highlight the passage at 38:01

38:36 like human being is just to share your views on the world um and and just like the nature of you know reality instead of um you know we we seek to bond with others through gossiping about people but um i think it's the most surface level form of connection Thank you. Yeah, that's wonderful. And it still, in my mind, requires a little bit of what... Report an error in the passage at 38:36 Highlight the passage at 38:36

39:04 I can't remember your name. I mean, yeah, was saying earlier that it still requires a willingness to come out and somehow with your own view, with your own thoughts, with your own resources, and that takes a little bit of courage. So sometimes we choose kind of the easier way just because that's sometimes all we can do maybe or what. Report an error in the passage at 39:04 Highlight the passage at 39:04

39:33 And again, to be... All right. Report an error in the passage at 39:33 Highlight the passage at 39:33

40:18 I think you used the word comprehensive speech. Was that a translation? It's a translation of Sama, which we typically translate as right. Sama Vaka is right speech in Pāli, and Sama has been translated as comprehensive, even though we typically translate it as right. Yeah. And, yeah, Report an error in the passage at 40:18 Highlight the passage at 40:18

40:57 how do you come to comprehensive speech? I mean, to me, the way I relate comprehensive... To write speech is thinking about those five categories. And talking about the practice period that you led with the body piece, I'm curious about that as well. Report an error in the passage at 40:57 Highlight the passage at 40:57

41:25 I do have a feeling of right speech. I'm not sure I can actually express it in words, but there is a knowing about the quality of one's speech. Report an error in the passage at 41:25 Highlight the passage at 41:25

41:42 And it's that quality that, this is my experience of course, but... It's that quality that makes you feel good or less good at the end of a conversation. It might not be substantive. It might not that you can point a finger on what you should have not said, but you feel some unease about how you have been in that conversation. Report an error in the passage at 41:42 Highlight the passage at 41:42

42:13 Somatically, that's my impression of what comprehensive might mean. I don't know where it comes from. but it takes. Thank you for Report an error in the passage at 42:13 Highlight the passage at 42:13

42:39 listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge. And this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfzc.org and click giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma. Report an error in the passage at 42:39 Highlight the passage at 42:39